为什么埃及在古代没有建立起一个属于他们自己的大帝国？
正文翻译
Egypt, with the Nile, was hands down one of the richest areas in the world until recent history, due to the massively advantageous agricultural output potential thanks to the predictable nature of the great river. For many empires across history it was also a "key" province, most notably for the Romans, where the Nile provided crucial food supplies, tax revenue, and access to Indian trade routes which kept the empire afloat. It was so important that no senator could enter the province without the Princep's direct approval, there was even a huge scandal when the heir apparent Germanicus made a trip into Egypt when Tiberius was still emperor. Besides that, ancient Egypt was almost on China's level as a great cultural force, even assimilating conquerors due to the strength and inertia of their religious beliefs and customs. The Ptolemy's had a notoriously hard time in Hellenizing the Coptic peoples and Cleopatra was the first Greek monarch to learn the native language.
有着尼罗河的埃及，直到近代都一直是世界上最富饶的地区之一，这条大河的可预测性，让埃及拥有巨大的农业生产潜力。对于历史上的许多帝国来说，这个地区也是一个“关键”的省份，尤其是对罗马，尼罗河提供了至关重要的粮食供应、税收以及通往印度的贸易路线，使帝国得以维持。这个省份重要到，若没有皇帝的直接批准，任何元老院议员都不能进入这个省，在提比略还是皇帝时，继承人日耳曼尼库斯前往埃及都成为了巨大的丑闻。除此之外，古埃及几乎是与中国同水平的文化力量，由于其宗教信仰、习俗的力量和惯性，他们甚至把征服者同化了。众所周知，希腊人的托勒密王朝在将科普特人希腊化的过程中经历了一段艰难的时期。克利奥帕特拉【埃及艳后】是第一位学习当地语言的希腊君主。
Egypt, with the Nile, was hands down one of the richest areas in the world until recent history, due to the massively advantageous agricultural output potential thanks to the predictable nature of the great river. For many empires across history it was also a "key" province, most notably for the Romans, where the Nile provided crucial food supplies, tax revenue, and access to Indian trade routes which kept the empire afloat. It was so important that no senator could enter the province without the Princep's direct approval, there was even a huge scandal when the heir apparent Germanicus made a trip into Egypt when Tiberius was still emperor. Besides that, ancient Egypt was almost on China's level as a great cultural force, even assimilating conquerors due to the strength and inertia of their religious beliefs and customs. The Ptolemy's had a notoriously hard time in Hellenizing the Coptic peoples and Cleopatra was the first Greek monarch to learn the native language.
有着尼罗河的埃及，直到近代都一直是世界上最富饶的地区之一，这条大河的可预测性，让埃及拥有巨大的农业生产潜力。对于历史上的许多帝国来说，这个地区也是一个“关键”的省份，尤其是对罗马，尼罗河提供了至关重要的粮食供应、税收以及通往印度的贸易路线，使帝国得以维持。这个省份重要到，若没有皇帝的直接批准，任何元老院议员都不能进入这个省，在提比略还是皇帝时，继承人日耳曼尼库斯前往埃及都成为了巨大的丑闻。除此之外，古埃及几乎是与中国同水平的文化力量，由于其宗教信仰、习俗的力量和惯性，他们甚至把征服者同化了。众所周知，希腊人的托勒密王朝在将科普特人希腊化的过程中经历了一段艰难的时期。克利奥帕特拉【埃及艳后】是第一位学习当地语言的希腊君主。
My question is, why did a region that was so strong agriculturally, economically, and culturally never make a great world empire of its own? Egypt and Assyria were the two major states to survive the Bronze Age collapse, but only Assyria capitalized on the massive power vacuums created by the collapse of most of the civilized world and would eventually conquer Egypt as well. When the Assyrians fell, another power vacuum opened up, but once again Egypt failed to capitalized and was eventually conquered by the Achaemenids. Egypt then had another chance under the Ptolemaic dynasty, but the nature of the wars of the Diadochi was that any two powers never let the third become too powerful, so the Ptolemies never expanded far out of the Levant with spheres of influence in southern Greece.
我的问题是，为什么一个在农业、经济和文化上如此强大的地区，却从来没有建立起自己的世界帝国？埃及和亚述是青铜时代崩溃后幸存下来的两个主要国家，但只有亚述利用了大部分文明世界崩溃后出现的实力真空建立起了帝国，最终还征服了埃及。当亚述灭亡，又一次实力真空出现，然而埃及还是没能抓住机会，最终还被波斯的阿契美尼德王朝征服了。当时埃及在托勒密王朝的统治下有一次机会，但继业者战争有一个特点，争斗的两方绝不让第三方变得过于强大，因此托勒密王朝的势力范围无法在黎凡特以外的希腊南部扩张。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
我的问题是，为什么一个在农业、经济和文化上如此强大的地区，却从来没有建立起自己的世界帝国？埃及和亚述是青铜时代崩溃后幸存下来的两个主要国家，但只有亚述利用了大部分文明世界崩溃后出现的实力真空建立起了帝国，最终还征服了埃及。当亚述灭亡，又一次实力真空出现，然而埃及还是没能抓住机会，最终还被波斯的阿契美尼德王朝征服了。当时埃及在托勒密王朝的统治下有一次机会，但继业者战争有一个特点，争斗的两方绝不让第三方变得过于强大，因此托勒密王朝的势力范围无法在黎凡特以外的希腊南部扩张。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
By the time Rome gobbled up Ptolemaic Egypt during the civil wars, Egypt had lost its shot at a large independent empire until the medi period under the Mamluks. What held Egypt back from leveraging its massive advantages into creating an empire to rival the Persians, Romans, and Assyrians?
当罗马在内战中吞并托勒密埃及时，埃及失去了成为独立大帝国的机会，直到中世纪马穆鲁克时期。埃及有着巨大的优势，然而是什么阻碍了埃及成为波斯、罗马和亚述这样的帝国？
当罗马在内战中吞并托勒密埃及时，埃及失去了成为独立大帝国的机会，直到中世纪马穆鲁克时期。埃及有着巨大的优势，然而是什么阻碍了埃及成为波斯、罗马和亚述这样的帝国？
评论翻译
Vic_Hedges
Well, Egypt did form a bit of an empire after the Bronze Age collapse. It projected its power up into Palestine for a while and was a power in that area, it just never quite won out against the various other powers there.
It probably has something to do with its geographic location. Egyptian culture is based on a very rich, but very isolated strip of land, surrounded in three sides by desert. This led to a culture that tended to look at themselves as living in a “blessed” land and that the lands beyond its borders were empty wastelands.
This also removed one of the great drivers of empire building, the border threat. Most empires grew not out of explicit desire for conquest, but out of a desire for targeted areas of resources, or to remove external threats to their own lands. With deserts on their borders, there was no easily adjacent land to conquer and swallow up, unlike in much of Mesopotamia, where empires could grow by gradually gobbling up the next city over until they ran into an opposing empire and fought it out.
This also meant that when Egypt DID expand there influence, they had to do so with client kingdoms rather than expanding their borders. The resource costs in trying to supply a long term occupying army when you have the Sinai peninsula you have to ship everything across would be prohibitive. So if Egypt wanted to contest Assyrian hegemony they’re at a major disadvantage logistically.
嗯，在青铜时代崩溃后，埃及其实是形成过帝国的。有一段时期，它把力量投射到巴勒斯坦，也算是那个地区的大势力之一，只不过从来没能完全战胜那里的其他大势力。
可能是和埃及的地理位置有关吧。埃及文明是建立在非常富裕但又非常孤立、三面被沙漠包围的陆地上。由此产生的文化，让他们认为自己生活在“受祝福的”土地上，在它边界外的土地都是荒芜之地。
这让建立帝国的一大推动力——边境威胁也一起消失了。大多数帝国之所以扩张，其实并非出于明确的征服欲望，而是出于对某个地区资源的渴望，或是为了消除外部威胁。由于他们的边界是沙漠，没有能让他们轻易征服或吞没的相邻土地，不像美索不达米亚地区，那里的帝国可以通过逐渐吞并周边的城市来扩张，直到他们遇到一个敌对的帝国。
这也意味着，当埃及扩张他们的影响力时，他们必须要通过附庸国来进行，这样就没办法扩张他们的边界。当有着西奈半岛阻隔时，要供应一直长期的占领军，你必须通过船来运送所有的东西，其中的成本高得难以承受。所以，如果埃及想要挑战亚述的霸权，他们在后勤上的劣势非常大。
Well, Egypt did form a bit of an empire after the Bronze Age collapse. It projected its power up into Palestine for a while and was a power in that area, it just never quite won out against the various other powers there.
It probably has something to do with its geographic location. Egyptian culture is based on a very rich, but very isolated strip of land, surrounded in three sides by desert. This led to a culture that tended to look at themselves as living in a “blessed” land and that the lands beyond its borders were empty wastelands.
This also removed one of the great drivers of empire building, the border threat. Most empires grew not out of explicit desire for conquest, but out of a desire for targeted areas of resources, or to remove external threats to their own lands. With deserts on their borders, there was no easily adjacent land to conquer and swallow up, unlike in much of Mesopotamia, where empires could grow by gradually gobbling up the next city over until they ran into an opposing empire and fought it out.
This also meant that when Egypt DID expand there influence, they had to do so with client kingdoms rather than expanding their borders. The resource costs in trying to supply a long term occupying army when you have the Sinai peninsula you have to ship everything across would be prohibitive. So if Egypt wanted to contest Assyrian hegemony they’re at a major disadvantage logistically.
嗯，在青铜时代崩溃后，埃及其实是形成过帝国的。有一段时期，它把力量投射到巴勒斯坦，也算是那个地区的大势力之一，只不过从来没能完全战胜那里的其他大势力。
可能是和埃及的地理位置有关吧。埃及文明是建立在非常富裕但又非常孤立、三面被沙漠包围的陆地上。由此产生的文化，让他们认为自己生活在“受祝福的”土地上，在它边界外的土地都是荒芜之地。
这让建立帝国的一大推动力——边境威胁也一起消失了。大多数帝国之所以扩张，其实并非出于明确的征服欲望，而是出于对某个地区资源的渴望，或是为了消除外部威胁。由于他们的边界是沙漠，没有能让他们轻易征服或吞没的相邻土地，不像美索不达米亚地区，那里的帝国可以通过逐渐吞并周边的城市来扩张，直到他们遇到一个敌对的帝国。
这也意味着，当埃及扩张他们的影响力时，他们必须要通过附庸国来进行，这样就没办法扩张他们的边界。当有着西奈半岛阻隔时，要供应一直长期的占领军，你必须通过船来运送所有的东西，其中的成本高得难以承受。所以，如果埃及想要挑战亚述的霸权，他们在后勤上的劣势非常大。
dorm_room_blogger
I listened to the History of Ancient Egypt on Audible, which was taught by Egyptologist Dr. Bob Briar. His theory was that it was also due to cultural reasons. Egyptians believed that they had to die on Egyptian soil to be admitted to the afterlife. So Egyptians who died in foreign lands was barred from entering the underworld. That's why any territory conquered outside of Egypt was not colonized, as Egyptian weren't inclined to live beyond their borders. If I'm remembering correctly they did conquer the Assyrian Empire at one point, but had to return home every year to bring their dead back home
我听过一些古埃及历史的有声读物，是由埃及学家Bob Briar博士讲授的。他提出的理论说是由于文化原因。埃及人相信，他们必须死在埃及的土地上才能获得来生。所以死于异国的埃及人无法进入地府。这就是埃及所征服的领土都不是殖民地的原因，因为埃及人不愿意生活在国界外。如果我没记错的话，他们的确曾经征服过亚述帝国，但是他们每年都要回国，把死去的人带回去。
I listened to the History of Ancient Egypt on Audible, which was taught by Egyptologist Dr. Bob Briar. His theory was that it was also due to cultural reasons. Egyptians believed that they had to die on Egyptian soil to be admitted to the afterlife. So Egyptians who died in foreign lands was barred from entering the underworld. That's why any territory conquered outside of Egypt was not colonized, as Egyptian weren't inclined to live beyond their borders. If I'm remembering correctly they did conquer the Assyrian Empire at one point, but had to return home every year to bring their dead back home
我听过一些古埃及历史的有声读物，是由埃及学家Bob Briar博士讲授的。他提出的理论说是由于文化原因。埃及人相信，他们必须死在埃及的土地上才能获得来生。所以死于异国的埃及人无法进入地府。这就是埃及所征服的领土都不是殖民地的原因，因为埃及人不愿意生活在国界外。如果我没记错的话，他们的确曾经征服过亚述帝国，但是他们每年都要回国，把死去的人带回去。
Bentresh
That's why any territory conquered outside of Egypt was not colonized, as Egyptian weren't inclined to live beyond their borders.
This is certainly what Egyptian texts would have you believe, and yet Near Eastern texts indicate that Egyptians had no qualms about living and working in the Near East.
Bob Brier is an excellent popularizer, but his academic background is in philosophy rather than Egyptology, and his work is often a bit sloppy.
If I'm remembering correctly they did conquer the Assyrian Empire at one point
No. The Egyptians under Thutmose III carried out a few razzias against Mitanni, but Egypt never had the resources to conquer any of the major Bronze Age powers with the exception of Kerma in Nubia.
“这就是埃及所征服的领土都不是殖民地的原因，因为埃及人不愿意生活在国界外”
这不过是埃及文献想让你相信的罢了，近东的文献表明，埃及人在近东生活和工作并没有任何顾虑。
Bob Brier是一位优秀的普及者，但他的学术背景是哲学而不是埃及学，而且他的工作通常有点马虎。
“如果我没记错的话，他们的确曾经征服过亚述帝国”
没有。图特摩斯三世统治下的埃及对米坦尼王国进行了几次突袭，但除了努比亚的Kerma之外，埃及从来没有足够的资源去征服青铜时代的强国。
That's why any territory conquered outside of Egypt was not colonized, as Egyptian weren't inclined to live beyond their borders.
This is certainly what Egyptian texts would have you believe, and yet Near Eastern texts indicate that Egyptians had no qualms about living and working in the Near East.
Bob Brier is an excellent popularizer, but his academic background is in philosophy rather than Egyptology, and his work is often a bit sloppy.
If I'm remembering correctly they did conquer the Assyrian Empire at one point
No. The Egyptians under Thutmose III carried out a few razzias against Mitanni, but Egypt never had the resources to conquer any of the major Bronze Age powers with the exception of Kerma in Nubia.
“这就是埃及所征服的领土都不是殖民地的原因，因为埃及人不愿意生活在国界外”
这不过是埃及文献想让你相信的罢了，近东的文献表明，埃及人在近东生活和工作并没有任何顾虑。
Bob Brier是一位优秀的普及者，但他的学术背景是哲学而不是埃及学，而且他的工作通常有点马虎。
“如果我没记错的话，他们的确曾经征服过亚述帝国”
没有。图特摩斯三世统治下的埃及对米坦尼王国进行了几次突袭，但除了努比亚的Kerma之外，埃及从来没有足够的资源去征服青铜时代的强国。
really-drunk-too
Actually isn’t it the other way around, didn’t the Assyrians conquer Egypt? I thought I remember this was one possible reason for the downfall of the Assyrian empire, the thought that their excursions into Egypt were costly and ultimately a failure, as Egypt was so far away it was difficult to hold.
难道不是反过来，亚述征服了埃及？我记得这是亚述帝国灭亡的原因之一，他们远征埃及的代价过于高昂，最终失败了，因为埃及过于遥远，难以掌控。
Actually isn’t it the other way around, didn’t the Assyrians conquer Egypt? I thought I remember this was one possible reason for the downfall of the Assyrian empire, the thought that their excursions into Egypt were costly and ultimately a failure, as Egypt was so far away it was difficult to hold.
难道不是反过来，亚述征服了埃及？我记得这是亚述帝国灭亡的原因之一，他们远征埃及的代价过于高昂，最终失败了，因为埃及过于遥远，难以掌控。
Crk416
Wouldn’t that have been a huge psychological disadvantage for Egyptian armies fighting outside Egypt? Like wouldn’t they be petrified of dying in foreign lands and flee much more easily?
如果是这样的话，对于在埃及境外作战的埃及军队来说，不会产生心理上的不利影响吗？比如说他们会不会由于害怕死在异国的土地上，导致他们更容易溃逃？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Wouldn’t that have been a huge psychological disadvantage for Egyptian armies fighting outside Egypt? Like wouldn’t they be petrified of dying in foreign lands and flee much more easily?
如果是这样的话，对于在埃及境外作战的埃及军队来说，不会产生心理上的不利影响吗？比如说他们会不会由于害怕死在异国的土地上，导致他们更容易溃逃？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
eye_shoe
I think as long as they were buried in Egypt it was ok
我认为只要他们葬在埃及就没问题。
I think as long as they were buried in Egypt it was ok
我认为只要他们葬在埃及就没问题。
Verbenablu
Hmmmm just like the Chinese.
嗯~~~这和中国人很像
Hmmmm just like the Chinese.
嗯~~~这和中国人很像
Scipio_Americanus_
Seems like the process of mummification would actually be pretty helpful here. It's got to be a tremendous pain in the ass to transport a rotting corpse or several of them.
如此看来木乃伊在这方面就很有用了。因为运送一具或几具腐烂的尸体肯定是件很痛苦的事。
Seems like the process of mummification would actually be pretty helpful here. It's got to be a tremendous pain in the ass to transport a rotting corpse or several of them.
如此看来木乃伊在这方面就很有用了。因为运送一具或几具腐烂的尸体肯定是件很痛苦的事。
cleverpseudonym1234
Given how extravagant the rest of the passage seems to be, would this have been a rare thing that the ultra-wealthy did and boasted about, or do we have reason to believe it was more common?
Perhaps a difficult question to answer given that unwealthy Egyptians probably left few records, but the resources needed to bring someone back from a foreign land seem substantial.
这么做也太过于奢侈了，这到底是属于超级富豪们的罕见情况然后被吹嘘，还是普遍情况？
考虑到贫困的埃及人可能没有留下记录，这个问题可能难以回答，但是从异国将死去的人带回来所耗费的成本也太高了。
Given how extravagant the rest of the passage seems to be, would this have been a rare thing that the ultra-wealthy did and boasted about, or do we have reason to believe it was more common?
Perhaps a difficult question to answer given that unwealthy Egyptians probably left few records, but the resources needed to bring someone back from a foreign land seem substantial.
这么做也太过于奢侈了，这到底是属于超级富豪们的罕见情况然后被吹嘘，还是普遍情况？
考虑到贫困的埃及人可能没有留下记录，这个问题可能难以回答，但是从异国将死去的人带回来所耗费的成本也太高了。
Flag-Assault2
If they didn't colonise it, whats the point of conquering it?
如果他们不殖民，那他们征服领土来干什么？
If they didn't colonise it, whats the point of conquering it?
如果他们不殖民，那他们征服领土来干什么？
akodo1
To make it a territory that sends tribute back on a regular basis.
让它们成为定期朝贡的领土。
To make it a territory that sends tribute back on a regular basis.
让它们成为定期朝贡的领土。
GepardenK
Bronze to the bronze age kingdoms was about as important as oil is to us today. They absolutely depended on it to maintain the economy/population. One big incentive for conquest would have been to secure a better position in the international trade network that bronze supply was contingent on.
青铜对青铜时代的王国来说，就像石油对我们如今一样重要。他们完全依靠青铜来维持经济和人口。征服领土的一个重要动机是在国际贸易网络中获得更好的地位，青铜的供应取决于此。
Bronze to the bronze age kingdoms was about as important as oil is to us today. They absolutely depended on it to maintain the economy/population. One big incentive for conquest would have been to secure a better position in the international trade network that bronze supply was contingent on.
青铜对青铜时代的王国来说，就像石油对我们如今一样重要。他们完全依靠青铜来维持经济和人口。征服领土的一个重要动机是在国际贸易网络中获得更好的地位，青铜的供应取决于此。
PresidentMixin
Glory accrued to the Pharaoh who sallied forth to conquer; goods and slaves could be looted from the conquered territories and brought back to Egypt; conquered peoples could be made to pay tribute to Egypt for years afterward.
出去征服的法老可以获取荣耀；掠夺征服领土上的货物和奴隶然后带回埃及；被征服的人民在以后的岁月里向埃及进贡。
Glory accrued to the Pharaoh who sallied forth to conquer; goods and slaves could be looted from the conquered territories and brought back to Egypt; conquered peoples could be made to pay tribute to Egypt for years afterward.
出去征服的法老可以获取荣耀；掠夺征服领土上的货物和奴隶然后带回埃及；被征服的人民在以后的岁月里向埃及进贡。
Bentresh
Well, Egypt did form a bit of an empire after the Bronze Age collapse. It projected its power up into Palestine for a while and was a power in that area, it just never quite won out against the various other powers there.
As others have said in the thread, Egypt was at its most powerful before the end of the Bronze Age, controlling much of Nubia as well as the southern Levant. It never quite recovered after the end of the New Kingdom, whereas Assyria did not reach its full territorial extent and power until the Iron Age.
There has been a great deal written on Egyptian empire-building, but anyone interested in the topic should begin with Tutankhamun's Armies: Battle and Conquest During Ancient Egypt's Late Eighteenth Dynasty by John Darnell and Colleen Manassa and Ancient Egyptian Imperialism by Ellen Morris.
“有一段时期，埃及把力量投射到巴勒斯坦，也算是那个地区的大势力之一”
正如其他人在帖子中说的，在青铜时代结束之前，埃及处于它的巅峰期，控制着努比亚大部分地区及黎凡特南部。在新王国终结后，它再也没有恢复过。而亚述直到铁器时代才达到领土和实力极限。
关于埃及帝国的著作有很多，不过对这个话题感兴趣的人应该从约翰·达内尔和科琳·马纳萨的《图坦卡蒙的军队:古埃及第十八王朝晚期的战斗和征服》开始看起，还有艾伦·莫里斯的《古埃及帝国主义》。
Well, Egypt did form a bit of an empire after the Bronze Age collapse. It projected its power up into Palestine for a while and was a power in that area, it just never quite won out against the various other powers there.
As others have said in the thread, Egypt was at its most powerful before the end of the Bronze Age, controlling much of Nubia as well as the southern Levant. It never quite recovered after the end of the New Kingdom, whereas Assyria did not reach its full territorial extent and power until the Iron Age.
There has been a great deal written on Egyptian empire-building, but anyone interested in the topic should begin with Tutankhamun's Armies: Battle and Conquest During Ancient Egypt's Late Eighteenth Dynasty by John Darnell and Colleen Manassa and Ancient Egyptian Imperialism by Ellen Morris.
“有一段时期，埃及把力量投射到巴勒斯坦，也算是那个地区的大势力之一”
正如其他人在帖子中说的，在青铜时代结束之前，埃及处于它的巅峰期，控制着努比亚大部分地区及黎凡特南部。在新王国终结后，它再也没有恢复过。而亚述直到铁器时代才达到领土和实力极限。
关于埃及帝国的著作有很多，不过对这个话题感兴趣的人应该从约翰·达内尔和科琳·马纳萨的《图坦卡蒙的军队:古埃及第十八王朝晚期的战斗和征服》开始看起，还有艾伦·莫里斯的《古埃及帝国主义》。
It projected its power up into Palestine for a while and was a power in that area, it just never quite won out against the various other powers there.
This is the crux of the issue. The Egyptian kings of the 18th/19th Dynasties stopped expanding into the Levant not out of any particular desire to do so but rather because the other "Great Powers" of the Late Bronze Age – first Mitanni and then Ḫatti – had claims on the northern Levant. Besieging a minor Canaanite city is one thing, but going against a major kingdom is something else altogether. When the Egyptians and Hittites did ultimately clash at Kadesh, the battle weakened both powers, one of the factors enabling the rise of Assyria in the 13th century BCE.
“只不过从来没能完全战胜那里的其他大势力。”
这就是问题的关键。埃及18-19王朝的国王们停止向黎凡特地区扩张，不是出于什么特别的愿望，而是由于青铜时代晚期的其他“大国”宣称占有黎凡特北部——先是米坦尼王国，再是Ḫatti。围困一个迦南小城是一回事，但与一个大王国对抗则是另一回事。当埃及人和赫梯人最终在加低斯发生冲突时，这场战争削弱了两国的力量，这也是亚述在公元前13世纪崛起的因素之一。
This is the crux of the issue. The Egyptian kings of the 18th/19th Dynasties stopped expanding into the Levant not out of any particular desire to do so but rather because the other "Great Powers" of the Late Bronze Age – first Mitanni and then Ḫatti – had claims on the northern Levant. Besieging a minor Canaanite city is one thing, but going against a major kingdom is something else altogether. When the Egyptians and Hittites did ultimately clash at Kadesh, the battle weakened both powers, one of the factors enabling the rise of Assyria in the 13th century BCE.
“只不过从来没能完全战胜那里的其他大势力。”
这就是问题的关键。埃及18-19王朝的国王们停止向黎凡特地区扩张，不是出于什么特别的愿望，而是由于青铜时代晚期的其他“大国”宣称占有黎凡特北部——先是米坦尼王国，再是Ḫatti。围困一个迦南小城是一回事，但与一个大王国对抗则是另一回事。当埃及人和赫梯人最终在加低斯发生冲突时，这场战争削弱了两国的力量，这也是亚述在公元前13世纪崛起的因素之一。
By the time Assyria began expanding in the 9th century BCE, the ancient Near East looked quite different. The Hittite empire was long gone, replaced by the kingdoms of Phrygia and Lydia in western and central Anatolia and the Neo-Hittite and Aramaean kingdoms of southern Anatolia and the northern Levant. The southern Levant was similarly fractured into the kingdoms of Israel, Aram-Damascus, Edom, Moab, etc. Cyprus too had transitioned from a (probably) unified Bronze Age kingdom to competing city-state kingdoms (Paphos, Salamis, Idalion, Kition, etc.). Babylon and Elam survived the Bronze Age but had lost much of their former territory.
In short, Iron Age Assyria had less competition than Bronze Age Egypt, which never had the power or resources to conquer the contemporary powers like Ḫatti, Mitanni, and Babylonia.
当亚述在公元前9世纪开始扩张的时候，古代近东大不如前。赫梯帝国早已不复存在，取而代之的是安纳托利亚西部的佛里吉亚王国，中部的吕底亚王国，南部的新赫梯王国和黎凡特北部的亚兰王国。黎凡特南部同样分裂为以色列、亚兰-大马士革、XX、XX等国。塞浦路斯也从一个貌似统一的青铜时代王国过渡到互相争斗的城邦王国。巴比伦和埃兰从青铜器时代幸存下来，但失去了大部分领土。
总之，铁器时代的亚述面对的竞争对手要少于青铜时代的埃及，埃及从来没有实力和资源去征服同时代的强国。
In short, Iron Age Assyria had less competition than Bronze Age Egypt, which never had the power or resources to conquer the contemporary powers like Ḫatti, Mitanni, and Babylonia.
当亚述在公元前9世纪开始扩张的时候，古代近东大不如前。赫梯帝国早已不复存在，取而代之的是安纳托利亚西部的佛里吉亚王国，中部的吕底亚王国，南部的新赫梯王国和黎凡特北部的亚兰王国。黎凡特南部同样分裂为以色列、亚兰-大马士革、XX、XX等国。塞浦路斯也从一个貌似统一的青铜时代王国过渡到互相争斗的城邦王国。巴比伦和埃兰从青铜器时代幸存下来，但失去了大部分领土。
总之，铁器时代的亚述面对的竞争对手要少于青铜时代的埃及，埃及从来没有实力和资源去征服同时代的强国。
MarcusXL
Yes, I find this more believable than a purely geographic analysis. For Egypt, the prizes within reach were the city-states of the Levant and in modern Libya. Beyond that they faced highly organized and powerful enemies, who they occasionally got the better of, but never in a conclusive way.
We also have to consider that true expansionist empires like Rome, or the Mongol Empire of the Great Khans are somewhat rare. They often had some kind of ideological momentum; Rome believed they were preventing barbarian invasions, and the god Terminus gave them the belief that whatever Rome conquered, it would keep forever. The Mongols believed they had a mandate from Heaven (an idea they shared with the ancient Chinese empires) to rule all peoples and nations. Not all powerful nations have such ideological features.
是的，我认为这种原因比纯粹的地理原因更可信。对埃及来说，能够触及到的地域是黎凡特的城邦和现代利比亚那快。除了这些地方，他们面对的敌人都是高度组织化且实力强大。埃及偶尔能战胜他们，但从来没有决定性的实力。
我们还必须要考虑到，如罗马、蒙古这样真正扩张性的帝国是非常少的。他们常常有某种意识形态来作为动力，罗马相信他们在阻止野蛮人的入侵，而界神让他们拥有一种信念，无论罗马征服了什么，他们都永远被庇护。蒙古人相信他们有天命（这是与古代中华帝国共同的想法），可以统治所有的民族和国家。不是所有强国都有这种意识形态的。
Yes, I find this more believable than a purely geographic analysis. For Egypt, the prizes within reach were the city-states of the Levant and in modern Libya. Beyond that they faced highly organized and powerful enemies, who they occasionally got the better of, but never in a conclusive way.
We also have to consider that true expansionist empires like Rome, or the Mongol Empire of the Great Khans are somewhat rare. They often had some kind of ideological momentum; Rome believed they were preventing barbarian invasions, and the god Terminus gave them the belief that whatever Rome conquered, it would keep forever. The Mongols believed they had a mandate from Heaven (an idea they shared with the ancient Chinese empires) to rule all peoples and nations. Not all powerful nations have such ideological features.
是的，我认为这种原因比纯粹的地理原因更可信。对埃及来说，能够触及到的地域是黎凡特的城邦和现代利比亚那快。除了这些地方，他们面对的敌人都是高度组织化且实力强大。埃及偶尔能战胜他们，但从来没有决定性的实力。
我们还必须要考虑到，如罗马、蒙古这样真正扩张性的帝国是非常少的。他们常常有某种意识形态来作为动力，罗马相信他们在阻止野蛮人的入侵，而界神让他们拥有一种信念，无论罗马征服了什么，他们都永远被庇护。蒙古人相信他们有天命（这是与古代中华帝国共同的想法），可以统治所有的民族和国家。不是所有强国都有这种意识形态的。
teknobable
Why didn't the Chinese ever make more of an attempt at a Mongol-scale conquest?
为什么中国人没有进行像蒙古那样大规模的征服？
Why didn't the Chinese ever make more of an attempt at a Mongol-scale conquest?
为什么中国人没有进行像蒙古那样大规模的征服？
MarcusXL
It was difficult enough to conquer all of "China," and Chinese history has a pattern of reigns that conquer and hold the landmass, and then dissolve into 'warring states'. As well the Chinese idea of the Mandate of Heaven was very China-centric, while for the Mongols it was an order to expand and subjugate without limit.
A full-fledged Chinese Empire consists of the whole areas from the South China Sea, the fringes of Korea, to Tibet and the Tarim Basin, and a dominant position vs. the peoples in the Mongolian Steppe, and this happened several times in history, the Han Empire being the first. Beyond that you have the boundaries created by the Himalayas and the Gobi Desert. These being extremely formidable natural defenses for a land empire, it simply made no practical sense to expand beyond them. China coveted the horses of the Tarim and Ferghana Valley, and holding that area gave them control of the Silk Road in its various incarnations, so it was worth projecting their power there, but not beyond.
控制整个中国就已经够困难的了，中国历史上有一种循环，征服并控制大陆，接着分裂成“战国”。而且中国的天命论也是以中国为中心的，而蒙古人的则是无限扩张和征服。
一个完整的中华帝国，其全部版图南到南海、东到朝鲜半岛边缘、西到西藏和塔里木盆地，相对于蒙古草原上的民族，中华帝国在这里占据着主导地位，这在历史上发生过好几次，汉朝是第一次。除此之外，还有喜马拉雅山和戈壁沙漠形成的边界。对于一个陆地帝国来说，这些是极其强大的天然防御，扩张到这些地方之外是没有实际意义的。中国渴望塔里木盆地和费尔干纳河谷的马匹，控制这些地方，就控制了丝绸之路，因此把力量投射到这里是值得的，但之外的地方就不值得了。
It was difficult enough to conquer all of "China," and Chinese history has a pattern of reigns that conquer and hold the landmass, and then dissolve into 'warring states'. As well the Chinese idea of the Mandate of Heaven was very China-centric, while for the Mongols it was an order to expand and subjugate without limit.
A full-fledged Chinese Empire consists of the whole areas from the South China Sea, the fringes of Korea, to Tibet and the Tarim Basin, and a dominant position vs. the peoples in the Mongolian Steppe, and this happened several times in history, the Han Empire being the first. Beyond that you have the boundaries created by the Himalayas and the Gobi Desert. These being extremely formidable natural defenses for a land empire, it simply made no practical sense to expand beyond them. China coveted the horses of the Tarim and Ferghana Valley, and holding that area gave them control of the Silk Road in its various incarnations, so it was worth projecting their power there, but not beyond.
控制整个中国就已经够困难的了，中国历史上有一种循环，征服并控制大陆，接着分裂成“战国”。而且中国的天命论也是以中国为中心的，而蒙古人的则是无限扩张和征服。
一个完整的中华帝国，其全部版图南到南海、东到朝鲜半岛边缘、西到西藏和塔里木盆地，相对于蒙古草原上的民族，中华帝国在这里占据着主导地位，这在历史上发生过好几次，汉朝是第一次。除此之外，还有喜马拉雅山和戈壁沙漠形成的边界。对于一个陆地帝国来说，这些是极其强大的天然防御，扩张到这些地方之外是没有实际意义的。中国渴望塔里木盆地和费尔干纳河谷的马匹，控制这些地方，就控制了丝绸之路，因此把力量投射到这里是值得的，但之外的地方就不值得了。
kriophoros
There is also the 15 inch isohyet, which marks the minimum annual rainfall required for sustained agriculture. The vast majority of Chinese population, even nowadays, live within that boundary. Beyond it, an army would need to be based around microclimates like oases, or supplied from the mainland. Obviously, both of these conditions make control over the region a difficult and expensive task.
还有一个因素是15英寸降雨量线，这是持续发展农业所需的最小年降雨量。即使是如今，中国绝大部分人口还是生活在这个范围内。除此之外，军队还需要绿洲之类的来做基地，否则就要大陆运送补给。显然，这两种情况都让控制上述地区变得艰难又昂贵。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
There is also the 15 inch isohyet, which marks the minimum annual rainfall required for sustained agriculture. The vast majority of Chinese population, even nowadays, live within that boundary. Beyond it, an army would need to be based around microclimates like oases, or supplied from the mainland. Obviously, both of these conditions make control over the region a difficult and expensive task.
还有一个因素是15英寸降雨量线，这是持续发展农业所需的最小年降雨量。即使是如今，中国绝大部分人口还是生活在这个范围内。除此之外，军队还需要绿洲之类的来做基地，否则就要大陆运送补给。显然，这两种情况都让控制上述地区变得艰难又昂贵。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Empirecitizen000
May i ask how large or influencial any contemporary 'empire' of Egypt were to say that Egypt didn't really had an empire for their scale of technology/social organisation at the time.
Because the first real Chinese empire in what OP meant is like the Han empire, much later in history. The assyrian empire, roman empire etc are all later nearer the iron age. It would seem that the technologies(e.g. communication, transportation and infrastructure) and political systems affect the size and influence of the type of centralised empire OP meant.
So wouldn't OP question be like asking why didn't the empires before had a world spanning colonial empire like the British?
我想问一下，当时的埃及“帝国”有多大，或者有多少影响力，或者说他们没有真正的帝国？
因为从楼主的话里来看，第一个真正的中华帝国可能要算到汉朝了，这在历史上已经很晚了。亚述帝国、罗马帝国等也很晚，接近铁器时代了。技术（如通讯、交通和基础设施）和政治制度，会影响楼主意思里的中央集权帝国的规模和影响力。
因此，楼主的问题岂不是就像在问，为什么以前没有一个像英国那样横跨世界的殖民帝国？
May i ask how large or influencial any contemporary 'empire' of Egypt were to say that Egypt didn't really had an empire for their scale of technology/social organisation at the time.
Because the first real Chinese empire in what OP meant is like the Han empire, much later in history. The assyrian empire, roman empire etc are all later nearer the iron age. It would seem that the technologies(e.g. communication, transportation and infrastructure) and political systems affect the size and influence of the type of centralised empire OP meant.
So wouldn't OP question be like asking why didn't the empires before had a world spanning colonial empire like the British?
我想问一下，当时的埃及“帝国”有多大，或者有多少影响力，或者说他们没有真正的帝国？
因为从楼主的话里来看，第一个真正的中华帝国可能要算到汉朝了，这在历史上已经很晚了。亚述帝国、罗马帝国等也很晚，接近铁器时代了。技术（如通讯、交通和基础设施）和政治制度，会影响楼主意思里的中央集权帝国的规模和影响力。
因此，楼主的问题岂不是就像在问，为什么以前没有一个像英国那样横跨世界的殖民帝国？
chase016
To add on to this, the isolated nature of Eygpt was not conducive to military development. Empires militaries are usually built upon inovations in tactics and strategies devloped by trial and error. The romans created flexible formations, to combat the rugged Italian interior. The Ayssirians developed cavalry to better combat the Scythians to the north. The French developed the Corp system to deal with the increasing size of European armies. These tactics can only be developed through constant fighting and a stong military institutions. Due to their isolation, they never devoped any of these.
还有，埃及的孤立也不利于军事发展。帝国军队要发展，战术和战略就要创新，这是通过反复试验制定出来的。罗马人创造了灵活的阵型，以在崎岖不平的意大利内陆战斗，亚述人发展了骑兵以更好地与北方的斯基泰人作战，法国人发展了Corp system以应对日益庞大的欧洲军队。这些战术只能通过不断的战斗，以及强大的军事机构来发展。由于埃及的孤立，他们没有发展出这些东西。
To add on to this, the isolated nature of Eygpt was not conducive to military development. Empires militaries are usually built upon inovations in tactics and strategies devloped by trial and error. The romans created flexible formations, to combat the rugged Italian interior. The Ayssirians developed cavalry to better combat the Scythians to the north. The French developed the Corp system to deal with the increasing size of European armies. These tactics can only be developed through constant fighting and a stong military institutions. Due to their isolation, they never devoped any of these.
还有，埃及的孤立也不利于军事发展。帝国军队要发展，战术和战略就要创新，这是通过反复试验制定出来的。罗马人创造了灵活的阵型，以在崎岖不平的意大利内陆战斗，亚述人发展了骑兵以更好地与北方的斯基泰人作战，法国人发展了Corp system以应对日益庞大的欧洲军队。这些战术只能通过不断的战斗，以及强大的军事机构来发展。由于埃及的孤立，他们没有发展出这些东西。
Hairy_Air
Pretty much the same reason that any Indian Empires didn't go beyond Afghanistan. Although some Southern Kingdoms did colonise Indonesia, Srilanka, Malaysia, etc.
The Subcontinent was already full of resources, people, rivals and just outside the border was crappy places. So no one really needed to go out to get something.
印度帝国的扩张没有超过阿富汗的原因和楼上说的几乎一样。虽然一些南方王国确实殖民了印度尼西亚、斯里兰卡、马来西亚等。
印度次大陆已经充满了资源、人口和敌人，边界外不过是些荒芜之地。所以，真的没人需要到外面去获得什么东西。
Pretty much the same reason that any Indian Empires didn't go beyond Afghanistan. Although some Southern Kingdoms did colonise Indonesia, Srilanka, Malaysia, etc.
The Subcontinent was already full of resources, people, rivals and just outside the border was crappy places. So no one really needed to go out to get something.
印度帝国的扩张没有超过阿富汗的原因和楼上说的几乎一样。虽然一些南方王国确实殖民了印度尼西亚、斯里兰卡、马来西亚等。
印度次大陆已经充满了资源、人口和敌人，边界外不过是些荒芜之地。所以，真的没人需要到外面去获得什么东西。
hammersklavier
Of course, from the middle of the Iron Age on, once you got beyond Afghanistan, you also ran into the rather sticky problem of Persia. Several Persian empires ended up conquering large swaths of India, the most famous being the Mughals.
从铁器时代中期开始，一旦印度人走出阿富汗，他们就会遇到波斯这个棘手的麻烦。几个波斯帝国最终征服了大片印度土地，最著名的是莫卧儿王朝。
Of course, from the middle of the Iron Age on, once you got beyond Afghanistan, you also ran into the rather sticky problem of Persia. Several Persian empires ended up conquering large swaths of India, the most famous being the Mughals.
从铁器时代中期开始，一旦印度人走出阿富汗，他们就会遇到波斯这个棘手的麻烦。几个波斯帝国最终征服了大片印度土地，最著名的是莫卧儿王朝。
nstav13
Also want to add that Egypt was conquered by the Persians around 525bce by the Achaemenid Empire and then after gaining independence around 400bce was conquered by Alexander just 80 years later leading to the Greek Ptolemy family taking control for 300 more years. The Greek rule only collapsed after Rome took over which began with the Alexandrine Civil War in 47bce. Egypt then belonged to Rome for the rest of the ancient era, so it never really had a chance to actually be a large empire in classical antiquity.
我补充一下，埃及在公元前525年左右被波斯人征服，后被阿契美尼德帝国征服，然后在公元前400年左右获得独立，仅仅80年后又被亚历山大征服，导致埃及被希腊托勒密家族控制了300多年。希腊对埃及的统治直到公元前47年的亚历山大内战后才开始崩溃，然后由罗马接管。在古代的剩余时间里，埃及都属于罗马，所以，在古典时期，它从来没有机会成为一个大帝国。
Also want to add that Egypt was conquered by the Persians around 525bce by the Achaemenid Empire and then after gaining independence around 400bce was conquered by Alexander just 80 years later leading to the Greek Ptolemy family taking control for 300 more years. The Greek rule only collapsed after Rome took over which began with the Alexandrine Civil War in 47bce. Egypt then belonged to Rome for the rest of the ancient era, so it never really had a chance to actually be a large empire in classical antiquity.
我补充一下，埃及在公元前525年左右被波斯人征服，后被阿契美尼德帝国征服，然后在公元前400年左右获得独立，仅仅80年后又被亚历山大征服，导致埃及被希腊托勒密家族控制了300多年。希腊对埃及的统治直到公元前47年的亚历山大内战后才开始崩溃，然后由罗马接管。在古代的剩余时间里，埃及都属于罗马，所以，在古典时期，它从来没有机会成为一个大帝国。
Daveallen10
This is also forgetting that Egypt itself was an Empire on its own turf along the Nile, governing a sizable population in the ancient world.
People don't realize how big Egypt actually is because we think of the world in terms of modern countries and borders.
别忘了，埃及本身就是尼罗河沿岸的帝国，它统治着古代世界相当多的人口。
大家没有意识到埃及到底有多大，是因为我们是用现代国家和边界来看的。
This is also forgetting that Egypt itself was an Empire on its own turf along the Nile, governing a sizable population in the ancient world.
People don't realize how big Egypt actually is because we think of the world in terms of modern countries and borders.
别忘了，埃及本身就是尼罗河沿岸的帝国，它统治着古代世界相当多的人口。
大家没有意识到埃及到底有多大，是因为我们是用现代国家和边界来看的。
CocoCrizpy
This is probably the kicker tbh. Egypt is about the size of the south-central US. Egypt would take up most of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri and Louisiana. Its not a small place.
这可能就是真相。埃及的面积相当于美国中南部。是德克萨斯州、俄克拉荷马州、堪萨斯州、阿肯色州、密苏里州和路易斯安那州的大部分地区。这已经不小了。
This is probably the kicker tbh. Egypt is about the size of the south-central US. Egypt would take up most of Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri and Louisiana. Its not a small place.
这可能就是真相。埃及的面积相当于美国中南部。是德克萨斯州、俄克拉荷马州、堪萨斯州、阿肯色州、密苏里州和路易斯安那州的大部分地区。这已经不小了。
fiendishrabbit
Egypt was an agricultural powerhouse. But they were limited by several factors
Their heartland, the Nile, is relatively isolated. To the east and west by deserts, to the north by ocean (and the egyptians, lacking wood, viewed open water sailing as extremely dangerous) and to the south by the various cataracts of the nile (areas where the nile couldn't be traversed by boat).
Egypt was arch-conservative in many ways. That included military technology, where they frequently had an advantage in numbers (number of chariots in particular) but almost never in terms of how advanced their weaponry was.
Egypt was culturally predisposed to not expand very far. There was the land of law/proper order, egypt itself, and the lands of chaos and misrule (not egypt). To the point where they had gods that personified this order, Ma'at and Isft. Anything outside of Egypt was to be kept in check with conquering expeditions for resources and wealth, but were never suitable places for true Egyptians to live (who only prospered in the lands of ma'at). In essence Egypt tended to establish tributary kingdoms, not expand Egypt itself.
埃及是一个农业大国。但它们受到几个因素的限制：
1、他们的心脏地带尼罗河相对孤立。往东和往西是沙漠，往北是海洋（由于埃及人缺乏木材，所以他们认为在开阔水域航行极其危险），往南则是尼罗河的各种大瀑布（这些地方无法行船）
2、埃及在很多方面都非常保守。其中包括军事技术，他们经常在数量上有优势(尤其是战车数量)，但在武器装备的先进程度上从来没有优势。
3、埃及的文化让他们倾向于不扩张得太远。埃及本身是有法律和秩序的国家，其他地方充满了混乱和暴政。连他们的神都是秩序的化身。埃及以外的地方都要通过远征来控制，而这需要消耗资源和财富，但这些地方都不适合真正的埃及人居住。埃及倾向于建立朝贡国，而不是扩张埃及本身。
Egypt was an agricultural powerhouse. But they were limited by several factors
Their heartland, the Nile, is relatively isolated. To the east and west by deserts, to the north by ocean (and the egyptians, lacking wood, viewed open water sailing as extremely dangerous) and to the south by the various cataracts of the nile (areas where the nile couldn't be traversed by boat).
Egypt was arch-conservative in many ways. That included military technology, where they frequently had an advantage in numbers (number of chariots in particular) but almost never in terms of how advanced their weaponry was.
Egypt was culturally predisposed to not expand very far. There was the land of law/proper order, egypt itself, and the lands of chaos and misrule (not egypt). To the point where they had gods that personified this order, Ma'at and Isft. Anything outside of Egypt was to be kept in check with conquering expeditions for resources and wealth, but were never suitable places for true Egyptians to live (who only prospered in the lands of ma'at). In essence Egypt tended to establish tributary kingdoms, not expand Egypt itself.
埃及是一个农业大国。但它们受到几个因素的限制：
1、他们的心脏地带尼罗河相对孤立。往东和往西是沙漠，往北是海洋（由于埃及人缺乏木材，所以他们认为在开阔水域航行极其危险），往南则是尼罗河的各种大瀑布（这些地方无法行船）
2、埃及在很多方面都非常保守。其中包括军事技术，他们经常在数量上有优势(尤其是战车数量)，但在武器装备的先进程度上从来没有优势。
3、埃及的文化让他们倾向于不扩张得太远。埃及本身是有法律和秩序的国家，其他地方充满了混乱和暴政。连他们的神都是秩序的化身。埃及以外的地方都要通过远征来控制，而这需要消耗资源和财富，但这些地方都不适合真正的埃及人居住。埃及倾向于建立朝贡国，而不是扩张埃及本身。
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