英国疫苗护照计划夭折了
正文翻译
新闻：
UK vaccine passport plans to be scrapped
-There will be no legal requirement to show Covid jab status at large events, as ministers go cool on proposals
英国疫苗护照计划夭折了
——没有法律要求在大型活动中展示已接种新冠肺炎疫苗的身份，大臣们对该提议的兴趣降低
-There will be no legal requirement to show Covid jab status at large events, as ministers go cool on proposals
英国疫苗护照计划夭折了
——没有法律要求在大型活动中展示已接种新冠肺炎疫苗的身份，大臣们对该提议的兴趣降低
新闻：
Plans to make Covid-19 passports a legal requirement for large events are set to be dropped, The Telegraph understands.
据《每日电讯报》报道，将新冠肺炎护照作为大型活动法定要求的计划将被取消。
据《每日电讯报》报道，将新冠肺炎护照作为大型活动法定要求的计划将被取消。
Officials working on the review into Covid-19 status certification believe there is no chance the law will be changed to mandate their use within the UK.
负责审查新冠状态认证的官员认为，不可能修改法律来强制在英国使用它们。
负责审查新冠状态认证的官员认为，不可能修改法律来强制在英国使用它们。
“It’s not a case of ‘it’s finely balanced’. It’s not going to happen,” said one well-placed government source close to the review. “Everyone says it’s dead.”
“这并不是一个‘情况微妙平衡’的例子。这是不可能发生的，”一位熟悉审查情况的政府知情人士表示。“大家都说计划已死。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
“这并不是一个‘情况微妙平衡’的例子。这是不可能发生的，”一位熟悉审查情况的政府知情人士表示。“大家都说计划已死。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It comes as ministers examine data to determine whether the lifting of restrictions can continue as planned from June 21 in England, when it was hoped that the public would be able to return in greater numbers to mass events such as football matches and concerts.
目前，英国的大臣们正在调查数据，以确定取消限制的措施是否能按计划从6月21日开始在英国继续实施。人们希望，届时公众能有更多的人返回英国参加足球比赛和音乐会等大型活动。
目前，英国的大臣们正在调查数据，以确定取消限制的措施是否能按计划从6月21日开始在英国继续实施。人们希望，届时公众能有更多的人返回英国参加足球比赛和音乐会等大型活动。
The Government first expressed interest in Covid passports in February, when a review into their use domestically was launched as part of Boris Johnson's reopening roadmap for England.
今年2月，英国首相鲍里斯·约翰逊为英国制定了重新开放的路线图，并对新冠肺炎护照在国内的使用情况进行了评估，政府首次表达了对新冠肺炎护照的兴趣。
今年2月，英国首相鲍里斯·约翰逊为英国制定了重新开放的路线图，并对新冠肺炎护照在国内的使用情况进行了评估，政府首次表达了对新冠肺炎护照的兴趣。
Since then, ministers defined such checks as showing proof of three things: having had a Covid jab, a recent negative test, or antibodies after catching the virus.
从那以后，大臣们将此类检查定义为有三项条件的证据：接种过新冠疫苗，最近检测呈阴性，或感染病毒后产生抗体。
从那以后，大臣们将此类检查定义为有三项条件的证据：接种过新冠疫苗，最近检测呈阴性，或感染病毒后产生抗体。
Ethical concerns
道德担忧
道德担忧
Showing proof of a jab has become accepted for international travel, given that some countries demand evidence for entry, and UK travellers are already able to do so via the NHS app.
鉴于一些国家要求入境时出示疫苗证明，在国际旅行中出示疫苗证明已被接受，而英国游客已经可以通过英国国家医疗体系APP做到这一点。
鉴于一些国家要求入境时出示疫苗证明，在国际旅行中出示疫苗证明已被接受，而英国游客已经可以通过英国国家医疗体系APP做到这一点。
However, their use within the UK is much more controversial, with critics warning that making people show proof of their medical status for social events raises serious ethical questions.
然而，在英国，这种方法的使用争议更大，批评者警告称，让人们在社会活动中出示自己的医疗状况证明会引发严重的道德问题。
然而，在英国，这种方法的使用争议更大，批评者警告称，让人们在社会活动中出示自己的医疗状况证明会引发严重的道德问题。
Government ministers had been looking at changing the law to require Covid-19 passports at events such as football matches, concerts, festivals and business conferences.
政府大臣们一直在考虑修改法律，要求在足球比赛、音乐会、节日和商务会议等活动中使用新冠肺炎护照。
政府大臣们一直在考虑修改法律，要求在足球比赛、音乐会、节日和商务会议等活动中使用新冠肺炎护照。
The Prime Minister has already ruled out their use for essential activities such as visiting the supermarket or the GP, and indicated he is not in favour of their use by pubs and restaurants.
首相已经排除了在必要的活动中使用它们，比如逛超市或看病，并表示他不赞成在酒吧和餐馆使用它们。
首相已经排除了在必要的活动中使用它们，比如逛超市或看病，并表示他不赞成在酒吧和餐馆使用它们。
Plans ‘killed off’ as complications arise
随着并发症的出现，计划被“扼杀”了
随着并发症的出现，计划被“扼杀”了
However, figures on the Covid-19 taskforce, which sits in the Cabinet Office and has been looking into Covid-19 status certification, are now said to believe they will not be legally required at all.
然而，位于内阁办公室的新冠特别工作组的一些人员目前认为，法律根本不需要新冠护照。
然而，位于内阁办公室的新冠特别工作组的一些人员目前认为，法律根本不需要新冠护照。
The well-placed source told The Telegraph: “No one is talking about it still as a potential thing … It has been killed off really.”
知情人士告诉《每日电讯报》：“现在已经没有人谈论新冠护照了……它真的被扼杀了。”
知情人士告诉《每日电讯报》：“现在已经没有人谈论新冠护照了……它真的被扼杀了。”
Papers submitted to the Covid-19 Operations cabinet committee earlier this month, details of which have been shared with The Telegraph, help explain the diminishing interest.
本月早些时候提交给新冠行动内阁委员会的文件（细节已与《每日电讯报》分享）（译注：链接）有助于解释兴趣减少的原因。
本月早些时候提交给新冠行动内阁委员会的文件（细节已与《每日电讯报》分享）（译注：链接）有助于解释兴趣减少的原因。
They are understood to have noted that the NHS app could not have been used by foreign visitors, undercutting the system.
据悉，他们已经注意到，外国游客不可能使用国家医疗体系的APP，这削弱了该系统的价值。
据悉，他们已经注意到，外国游客不可能使用国家医疗体系的APP，这削弱了该系统的价值。
The papers also noted that there are some medical exemptions to getting jabs, including people who have allergic reactions and the young, which complicate matters.
这些报纸还指出，注射疫苗有一些医疗豁免，包括有过敏反应的人和年轻人，这使问题复杂化了。
这些报纸还指出，注射疫苗有一些医疗豁免，包括有过敏反应的人和年轻人，这使问题复杂化了。
Previously ministers in private meetings have raised concerns about what the exact health benefit of Covid-19 passports would be, pressing officials to be clearer about the rationale.
此前，大臣们在非公开会议上曾对新冠肺炎护照的确切健康益处表示担忧，并敦促官员们更清楚地说明理由。
此前，大臣们在非公开会议上曾对新冠肺炎护照的确切健康益处表示担忧，并敦促官员们更清楚地说明理由。
Another reason for the diminishing enthusiasm is the low level of cases and growing number of vaccinated Britons, meaning the health benefit is less clear, a point ministers have privately stressed.
另一个导致人们对疫苗护照热情减弱的原因是，英国的病例数量较低，而接种疫苗的人数在不断增加，这意味着疫苗护照的健康效益不太明确，这是大臣们私下里强调的一点。
另一个导致人们对疫苗护照热情减弱的原因是，英国的病例数量较低，而接种疫苗的人数在不断增加，这意味着疫苗护照的健康效益不太明确，这是大臣们私下里强调的一点。
Final sign-off for that decision is yet to be made.
这一决定尚未得到最终批准。
这一决定尚未得到最终批准。
Gove and Johnson both reluctant
戈夫和约翰逊都很不情愿
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
戈夫和约翰逊都很不情愿
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister overseeing the review, is yet to submit his recommendations to Mr Johnson. But sources close to both figures say they are instinctively reluctant to adopt the plans.
负责审查的内阁办公室部长迈克尔·戈夫尚未向约翰逊提交他的建议。但接近这两个数字的消息人士表示，他们本能地不愿采纳这些计划。
负责审查的内阁办公室部长迈克尔·戈夫尚未向约翰逊提交他的建议。但接近这两个数字的消息人士表示，他们本能地不愿采纳这些计划。
Furthermore, Israel, the country whose adoption of Covid-19 passports became the template studied closely by the UK (including a trip there from Mr Gove) will drop its "green pass" soon, because so many of its citizens are now vaccinated. That decision has been carefully noted by ministers.
此外，以色列将很快取消其“绿色通行证”，因为该国许多公民现在都接种了疫苗。英国对以色列新冠肺炎护照的采用情况进行了密切研究（包括戈夫前往该国的一次旅行）。大臣们仔细关注了这一决定。
此外，以色列将很快取消其“绿色通行证”，因为该国许多公民现在都接种了疫苗。英国对以色列新冠肺炎护照的采用情况进行了密切研究（包括戈夫前往该国的一次旅行）。大臣们仔细关注了这一决定。
The Government deciding not to change the law to force large events to use the passports would not in itself mean that such schemes are never adopted.
政府决定不修改法律以强迫大型活动使用护照，本身并不意味着此类计划永远不会被采纳。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
政府决定不修改法律以强迫大型活动使用护照，本身并不意味着此类计划永远不会被采纳。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
A government upxe on the review in April said there was nothing stopping companies asking for proof of Covid-19 status before granting entry, providing they do not breach equalities laws.
政府今年4月发布的一份关于审查的最新报告称，只要企业不违反平等法，它们在获准入境前没有理由要求提供新冠身份证明。
政府今年4月发布的一份关于审查的最新报告称，只要企业不违反平等法，它们在获准入境前没有理由要求提供新冠身份证明。
Work on the NHS app, which is being converted to be able to show proof of a jab, negative test or antibodies, is likely to continue, given that it is being used for international travel.
英国国家医疗服务系统APP的开发工作可能会继续下去，因为该APP正在被用于国际旅行，目前正被转变为能够显示注射疫苗、阴性测试或抗体的证据。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
英国国家医疗服务系统APP的开发工作可能会继续下去，因为该APP正在被用于国际旅行，目前正被转变为能够显示注射疫苗、阴性测试或抗体的证据。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Government ministers may also choose to look again at Covid-19 passports for the autumn and winter, arguing that a sudden deterioration in the Covid situation could see the idea return.
政府大臣们也可能选择重新审视秋冬季的新冠肺炎护照，认为如果新冠肺炎疫情突然恶化，这种想法可能会卷土重来。
政府大臣们也可能选择重新审视秋冬季的新冠肺炎护照，认为如果新冠肺炎疫情突然恶化，这种想法可能会卷土重来。
Backbench triumph
后座议员的胜利
后座议员的胜利
However, the decision not to announce legal changes to mandate Covid-19 passports would be treated as a triumph by backbench Tory MPs, who vowed to join with Labour rebels to defeat the move.
然而，不宣布对新冠肺炎护照进行法律修改的决定，将被保守党后座议员视为一场胜利，他们此前誓言要与工党反对派一道挫败此举。
然而，不宣布对新冠肺炎护照进行法律修改的决定，将被保守党后座议员视为一场胜利，他们此前誓言要与工党反对派一道挫败此举。
Mr Gove, appearing before a sext committee on Thursday, hinted at the softening position as he stressed that the Government was not yet committed to bringing in Covid-19 passports.
戈夫周四在一个特别委员会面前暗示，政府的立场有所软化，他强调政府尚未承诺提供新冠肺炎护照。
戈夫周四在一个特别委员会面前暗示，政府的立场有所软化，他强调政府尚未承诺提供新冠肺炎护照。
He said: "I think there's been a perception among some, not in this committee, that the Government has locked on to this in the same way as JFK said that he was going to put a man on the moon, that we're going to introduce a policy for certification come what may, hell or high water.
他说：“我认为在一些人当中有一种看法，不是在这个委员会中，政府已经锁定了这一点，就像肯尼迪说他要把一个人送上月球一样，我们将引入一项政策，不管发生什么情况，不管遇到什么困难。
他说：“我认为在一些人当中有一种看法，不是在这个委员会中，政府已经锁定了这一点，就像肯尼迪说他要把一个人送上月球一样，我们将引入一项政策，不管发生什么情况，不管遇到什么困难。
“That's not the case. We've been looking at it pragmatically, to see if it can add value and, if not, then we would not press ahead with it.”
“事实并非如此。我们一直在从实际出发，看看它是否能增加价值，如果不能，我们就不会继续推进它。”
“事实并非如此。我们一直在从实际出发，看看它是否能增加价值，如果不能，我们就不会继续推进它。”
A Whitehall source said: “Michael has been listening very carefully to the arguments for and against Covid certification and the review has left no stone unturned in examining whether there is a case for them domestically. He will make recommendations to the PM soon".
白厅的一位消息人士表示：“迈克尔一直在非常仔细地听取支持和反对新冠肺炎认证的论据，审查工作已不遗余力地调查这些论据在国内是否适用。他很快会向首相提出建议。”
白厅的一位消息人士表示：“迈克尔一直在非常仔细地听取支持和反对新冠肺炎认证的论据，审查工作已不遗余力地调查这些论据在国内是否适用。他很快会向首相提出建议。”
A government spokesman said: “The Covid status certification review is ongoing and no final decisions have been taken yet. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster will upxe Parliament after recess.”
一名政府发言人表示：“新冠身份认证审查正在进行中，尚未做出最终决定。兰开斯特公爵领地的大臣会在休会后通知议会。”
一名政府发言人表示：“新冠身份认证审查正在进行中，尚未做出最终决定。兰开斯特公爵领地的大臣会在休会后通知议会。”
评论翻译
GhostMotley3 weeks to flatten the curve
Sense prevails, COVID passports would have been utterly unworkable, entirely illiberal, ethically questionable to put it lightly and completely unnecessary, the pandemic is essentially over in the UK.
人们普遍认为，新冠肺炎护照是完全不可行的，完全不开明的，轻言之，道德上是有问题的，完全没有必要的，因为疫情在英国基本上已经结束了。
Sense prevails, COVID passports would have been utterly unworkable, entirely illiberal, ethically questionable to put it lightly and completely unnecessary, the pandemic is essentially over in the UK.
人们普遍认为，新冠肺炎护照是完全不可行的，完全不开明的，轻言之，道德上是有问题的，完全没有必要的，因为疫情在英国基本上已经结束了。
calloutyourstupidity
Pandemic is over ? Rising case numbers not agreeing with you. Hopefully death numbers will stay flat
大流行已经结束了吗？越来越多的病例表示不同意。希望死亡人数不再增加了
Pandemic is over ? Rising case numbers not agreeing with you. Hopefully death numbers will stay flat
大流行已经结束了吗？越来越多的病例表示不同意。希望死亡人数不再增加了
VictuswolfTest, Trace & Quarantine Saves Lives. Gov waited till 2 late
Sense prevails, COVID passports would have been utterly unworkable, entirely illiberal, ethically questionable to put it lightly and completely unnecessary, the pandemic is essentially over in the UK.
A confirmed case is someone who has tested positive for coronavirus. There were 3,240 new people with a confirmed positive test result for coronavirus on 30 May 2021. Between 24 May 2021 and 30 May 2021, there were 22,474 people who had a confirmed positive test result. This shows an increase of 26.8% compared to the previous 7 days.
People have been saying its over each week and each month it carries on. With the new variants from abroad and people who think vaccine = infringing on my liberal freedoms it's not over yet.
From the perspective of someone who's friends mum died to covid, has two at risk family members and knows friends who likely be severely ill or die if they caught it i think scrapping passports is just another sign the government doesn't care about the loss of life this decision WILL cause.
We get vaccines as children to save lives. If Everyone was encouraged to have the covid vaccine it would save lives. We already had enough people lose their lives over the last year due to this nightmare and the way it was handled.
“人们普遍认为，新冠肺炎护照是完全不可行的，完全不开明的，轻言之，道德上是有问题的，完全没有必要的，因为疫情在英国基本上已经结束了”
确诊病例是指冠状病毒检测呈阳性的人。2021年5月30日，有3240名新冠肺炎确诊阳性患者。2021年5月24日至5月30日期间，有22474人确诊为阳性检测结果。这表明与前7天相比增加了26.8%。
每个星期，每个月，人们都在谈论疫情。有来自国外的新变种和那些认为疫苗等于侵犯我自由的人在，说明事情还没完。
从一个人朋友的母亲死于新冠肺炎，有两个重症的家庭成员，并且认识的朋友感染了新冠肺炎可能会身患重病或死亡的人的角度来看，我认为废弃新冠护照计划只是政府不关心这个决定会造成的生命损失的另一个标志。
我们在孩童时期就接种疫苗来拯救生命。如果每个人都被鼓励接种新冠疫苗，它将挽救生命。在过去的一年里，已经有足够多的人因为这场噩梦以及它的应对方式而失去了生命。
Sense prevails, COVID passports would have been utterly unworkable, entirely illiberal, ethically questionable to put it lightly and completely unnecessary, the pandemic is essentially over in the UK.
A confirmed case is someone who has tested positive for coronavirus. There were 3,240 new people with a confirmed positive test result for coronavirus on 30 May 2021. Between 24 May 2021 and 30 May 2021, there were 22,474 people who had a confirmed positive test result. This shows an increase of 26.8% compared to the previous 7 days.
People have been saying its over each week and each month it carries on. With the new variants from abroad and people who think vaccine = infringing on my liberal freedoms it's not over yet.
From the perspective of someone who's friends mum died to covid, has two at risk family members and knows friends who likely be severely ill or die if they caught it i think scrapping passports is just another sign the government doesn't care about the loss of life this decision WILL cause.
We get vaccines as children to save lives. If Everyone was encouraged to have the covid vaccine it would save lives. We already had enough people lose their lives over the last year due to this nightmare and the way it was handled.
“人们普遍认为，新冠肺炎护照是完全不可行的，完全不开明的，轻言之，道德上是有问题的，完全没有必要的，因为疫情在英国基本上已经结束了”
确诊病例是指冠状病毒检测呈阳性的人。2021年5月30日，有3240名新冠肺炎确诊阳性患者。2021年5月24日至5月30日期间，有22474人确诊为阳性检测结果。这表明与前7天相比增加了26.8%。
每个星期，每个月，人们都在谈论疫情。有来自国外的新变种和那些认为疫苗等于侵犯我自由的人在，说明事情还没完。
从一个人朋友的母亲死于新冠肺炎，有两个重症的家庭成员，并且认识的朋友感染了新冠肺炎可能会身患重病或死亡的人的角度来看，我认为废弃新冠护照计划只是政府不关心这个决定会造成的生命损失的另一个标志。
我们在孩童时期就接种疫苗来拯救生命。如果每个人都被鼓励接种新冠疫苗，它将挽救生命。在过去的一年里，已经有足够多的人因为这场噩梦以及它的应对方式而失去了生命。
GhostMotley3 weeks to flatten the curve
Good, the Government shouldn't make saving every life the sole priority, it's a non-achievable goal and trying to get there will lead to economic and social ruin.
In a normal year, around 20,000 people would die from Flu in England, we never had 'Flu passports' or any restrictions for Flu.
Clearly there is an acceptable number of yearly COVID deaths we will have to live with, COVID isn't going to be eradicated so we will have to live with it, like we do a myriad of other viruses and diseases.
Vaccine uptake is very high in the UK, COVID passports aren't necessary, they are an authoritarian solution for a non-existent problem. And considering having the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading COVID, the assertion that vaccine passports would save lives is a dull one.
很好，政府不应该把拯救每一个生命作为唯一的优先事项，这是一个无法实现的目标，试图达到这个目标会导致经济和社会的毁灭。
正常情况下，英格兰每年约有2万人死于流感，但我们从来没有什么“流感护照”或任何针对流感的限制。
显然，存在一个我们每年可以接受的新冠病毒死亡人数，新冠病毒不会被根除，所以我们必须承受它，就像我们承受无数其他病毒和疾病一样。
在英国，疫苗普及率很高，没有必要提供新冠肺炎护照，这是一种针对不存在问题的专制解决方案。考虑到接种疫苗并不能阻止新冠病毒的传播，“疫苗护照将拯救生命”的断言是枯燥的。
Good, the Government shouldn't make saving every life the sole priority, it's a non-achievable goal and trying to get there will lead to economic and social ruin.
In a normal year, around 20,000 people would die from Flu in England, we never had 'Flu passports' or any restrictions for Flu.
Clearly there is an acceptable number of yearly COVID deaths we will have to live with, COVID isn't going to be eradicated so we will have to live with it, like we do a myriad of other viruses and diseases.
Vaccine uptake is very high in the UK, COVID passports aren't necessary, they are an authoritarian solution for a non-existent problem. And considering having the vaccine doesn't stop you spreading COVID, the assertion that vaccine passports would save lives is a dull one.
很好，政府不应该把拯救每一个生命作为唯一的优先事项，这是一个无法实现的目标，试图达到这个目标会导致经济和社会的毁灭。
正常情况下，英格兰每年约有2万人死于流感，但我们从来没有什么“流感护照”或任何针对流感的限制。
显然，存在一个我们每年可以接受的新冠病毒死亡人数，新冠病毒不会被根除，所以我们必须承受它，就像我们承受无数其他病毒和疾病一样。
在英国，疫苗普及率很高，没有必要提供新冠肺炎护照，这是一种针对不存在问题的专制解决方案。考虑到接种疫苗并不能阻止新冠病毒的传播，“疫苗护照将拯救生命”的断言是枯燥的。
BitZlip
Phew time for a hot take.
I believe vaccines should be mandatory and failure to get one should result in your exile socially from basically everything. (Pubs, clubs, and Tesco)
Hence I think Vaccine Passports are a good idea and I like them.
For the record. Vaccines mandatory, Passports or whatever system you want to use optional as per the businesses own requirements.
Anyone want to change my mind as to why I shouldn't think this?
是时候来杯热饮了。
我认为疫苗应该是强制性的，如果不接种疫苗，你就会被驱逐出社会，从根本上远离一切。（酒吧、俱乐部和乐购）
因此，我认为疫苗护照是一个好主意，我喜欢它们。
郑重声明。疫苗是强制性的，护照或任何你想使用的其他系统，根据企业自己的要求可选。
有人想改变我的想法吗？关于为什么我不该这么想？
Phew time for a hot take.
I believe vaccines should be mandatory and failure to get one should result in your exile socially from basically everything. (Pubs, clubs, and Tesco)
Hence I think Vaccine Passports are a good idea and I like them.
For the record. Vaccines mandatory, Passports or whatever system you want to use optional as per the businesses own requirements.
Anyone want to change my mind as to why I shouldn't think this?
是时候来杯热饮了。
我认为疫苗应该是强制性的，如果不接种疫苗，你就会被驱逐出社会，从根本上远离一切。（酒吧、俱乐部和乐购）
因此，我认为疫苗护照是一个好主意，我喜欢它们。
郑重声明。疫苗是强制性的，护照或任何你想使用的其他系统，根据企业自己的要求可选。
有人想改变我的想法吗？关于为什么我不该这么想？
34Mbit
Do you think wantonly degrading your personal health, to the extent that you cannot survive an infection that is non-fatal in the vast majority of healthy people, is grounds for societally-enforced health mandates?
Basically, should obese people be sectioned under a public health equivalent of the Mental Health Act until they have lost enough body fat that they cannot be a burden to society's obligation of care to them?
你认为肆意贬低你的个人健康，以至于你无法在对绝大多数健康人来说并不致命的感染中存活，是让全社会强制推行健康规定的理由吗？
基本上，肥胖的人是否也应该按照等同于《精神卫生法》的公共卫生法进行分类，直到他们减掉了足够多的体脂，不再成为社会照顾他们的负担呢？
Do you think wantonly degrading your personal health, to the extent that you cannot survive an infection that is non-fatal in the vast majority of healthy people, is grounds for societally-enforced health mandates?
Basically, should obese people be sectioned under a public health equivalent of the Mental Health Act until they have lost enough body fat that they cannot be a burden to society's obligation of care to them?
你认为肆意贬低你的个人健康，以至于你无法在对绝大多数健康人来说并不致命的感染中存活，是让全社会强制推行健康规定的理由吗？
基本上，肥胖的人是否也应该按照等同于《精神卫生法》的公共卫生法进行分类，直到他们减掉了足够多的体脂，不再成为社会照顾他们的负担呢？
Wapentake
The Covid-19 vaccine will save hundreds of thousands of lives, but effectively mandating it is incredibly illiberal and authoritarian. People have the right to deny themselves medical treatment, even if beneficial. In terms of the wider risk to the public, the unvaccinated population is small and ever-shrinking and at the end of the day, life is full of risk.
新冠疫苗将挽救数十万人的生命，但全面地强制接种它是极其狭隘和专制的做法。人们有权拒绝施加给自己的医疗措施，哪怕这是有益的。就公众面临的更大风险而言，未接种疫苗的人口很少，而且还在不断减少，说到底，生活到处都有风险。
The Covid-19 vaccine will save hundreds of thousands of lives, but effectively mandating it is incredibly illiberal and authoritarian. People have the right to deny themselves medical treatment, even if beneficial. In terms of the wider risk to the public, the unvaccinated population is small and ever-shrinking and at the end of the day, life is full of risk.
新冠疫苗将挽救数十万人的生命，但全面地强制接种它是极其狭隘和专制的做法。人们有权拒绝施加给自己的医疗措施，哪怕这是有益的。就公众面临的更大风险而言，未接种疫苗的人口很少，而且还在不断减少，说到底，生活到处都有风险。
royalblue1982
Sure, you have a right to deny yourself medical treatment. But then society has a right to exclude you from certain activities based on reasonable judgements.
当然，你有权拒绝接受治疗。但是社会也有权基于合理的判断将你排除在某些活动之外。
Sure, you have a right to deny yourself medical treatment. But then society has a right to exclude you from certain activities based on reasonable judgements.
当然，你有权拒绝接受治疗。但是社会也有权基于合理的判断将你排除在某些活动之外。
welshy6891
Who are you to decide what liberties people have based on medical treatments people have had.
Should we exclude the obese from restaurants and restrict what they are allowed to purchase in terms of groceries. I mean it costs society to treat the ills coming from it so it affects all of us.
Society has a right to ridicule your authoritarian boot licking nonsense.
你凭什么根据人们接受过的治疗来决定他们的自由。
我们应该把肥胖者排除在餐馆之外，并限制他们在食品杂货方面的购买吗。我的意思是你这么干需要全社会来治疗疾病，所以它影响我们所有人。
社会也有权嘲笑你们这些跪舔权威靴子的扯淡。
Who are you to decide what liberties people have based on medical treatments people have had.
Should we exclude the obese from restaurants and restrict what they are allowed to purchase in terms of groceries. I mean it costs society to treat the ills coming from it so it affects all of us.
Society has a right to ridicule your authoritarian boot licking nonsense.
你凭什么根据人们接受过的治疗来决定他们的自由。
我们应该把肥胖者排除在餐馆之外，并限制他们在食品杂货方面的购买吗。我的意思是你这么干需要全社会来治疗疾病，所以它影响我们所有人。
社会也有权嘲笑你们这些跪舔权威靴子的扯淡。
smd1815
And having an enormous majority of the population vaccinated would mean the there would have been nowhere near anything resembling a "worst risk" so that's why we're not bothering with vaccine passports. Excellent news!
而且，让绝大多数人接种疫苗意味着根本就没有类似于“最糟糕风险”的东西，所以我们才懒得去办什么疫苗护照。很棒的新闻！
And having an enormous majority of the population vaccinated would mean the there would have been nowhere near anything resembling a "worst risk" so that's why we're not bothering with vaccine passports. Excellent news!
而且，让绝大多数人接种疫苗意味着根本就没有类似于“最糟糕风险”的东西，所以我们才懒得去办什么疫苗护照。很棒的新闻！
bobbyjackdotme
This is only in the case of large-scale events such as a football match. Are you against searching people going into a football ground to prevent them from taking weapons in? Life is full of risk, but if we can mitigate the worst risks with little negative impact, why not?
这只会发生在像足球比赛这样的大型赛事中。你反对搜查进入足球场的人来阻止他们携带武器吗？生活是充满了风险，但如果我们能在几乎没有负面影响的情况下减轻最坏的风险，我们何乐而不为呢？
This is only in the case of large-scale events such as a football match. Are you against searching people going into a football ground to prevent them from taking weapons in? Life is full of risk, but if we can mitigate the worst risks with little negative impact, why not?
这只会发生在像足球比赛这样的大型赛事中。你反对搜查进入足球场的人来阻止他们携带武器吗？生活是充满了风险，但如果我们能在几乎没有负面影响的情况下减轻最坏的风险，我们何乐而不为呢？
stev1212#!/bin/bash
Sure, no one can make them get vaccinated, it's their body.
But similarly the rest of society should be able to advance without them.
In no way are their civil liberties being infringed here. They're making a choice that has consequences.
当然，没人能（强制）让他们接种疫苗，这是他们自己的身体。
但同样，社会的其他部分也应该能够在没有他们的情况下取得进步。
他们的公民自由在这里丝毫没有受到侵犯。但他们的选择是有后果的。
Sure, no one can make them get vaccinated, it's their body.
But similarly the rest of society should be able to advance without them.
In no way are their civil liberties being infringed here. They're making a choice that has consequences.
当然，没人能（强制）让他们接种疫苗，这是他们自己的身体。
但同样，社会的其他部分也应该能够在没有他们的情况下取得进步。
他们的公民自由在这里丝毫没有受到侵犯。但他们的选择是有后果的。
smd1815
Yes, civil liberties aren't being infringed because we aren't getting domestic vaccine passports. Enough people in the correct positions saw how bad they would be for civil liberty and made their voices heard and now we aren't getting them. Rejoice.
是的，公民自由不会因为我们没有获得国内疫苗护照而受到侵犯。有足够多的人在正确的位置上看到了疫苗护照对公民自由有多糟糕，并发出了他们的声音，所以现在我们不搞它们了。庆祝。
Yes, civil liberties aren't being infringed because we aren't getting domestic vaccine passports. Enough people in the correct positions saw how bad they would be for civil liberty and made their voices heard and now we aren't getting them. Rejoice.
是的，公民自由不会因为我们没有获得国内疫苗护照而受到侵犯。有足够多的人在正确的位置上看到了疫苗护照对公民自由有多糟糕，并发出了他们的声音，所以现在我们不搞它们了。庆祝。
wearenotthefrods
Something isn't 'illiberal' just because it's not advocating some extreme form of libertarianism.
As a society, we require people to follow basic rules of health and hygiene in order to keep everyone else safe.
I agree that 'effectively' mandating vaccines is a bad strategy because it's ineffective. But in principle, it's not illiberal. Vaccines aren't some magical area of healthcare that follow a different set of standards.
Either we can't demand people follow any rules of health or hygiene, or it would be fine to require people to have a vaccination to do certain things. It doesn't make any sense to draw some arbitrary line because a bunch of conspiracy theorists don't believe in them.
It's only because Covid isn't that lethal that we can ultimately abide some people choosing to not get vaccinated when they could. I don't know where 'life is full of risk' would get you if this was MERS or the Hendra virus.
A basic tenant of liberalism is also that you don't have the right to go around killing other people.
有些东西不会仅仅因为它不提倡某种极端形式的自由主义，就是“狭隘的”。
作为一个社会，我们要求人们遵循健康和卫生的基本规则，以确保其他人的安全。
我同意“全面”推广疫苗是一个糟糕的策略，因为它是无效的。但原则上，这并不是偏激。疫苗并不是医疗保健中遵循一套不同标准的神奇领域。
要么我们不能要求人们遵守任何健康或卫生规则，要么我们可以要求人们接种疫苗来做某些事情。武断地划定界限是没有任何意义的，因为一群阴谋论者不相信它们。
只是因为冠状病毒不是那么致命，我们最终能够容忍一些人在可以接种时选择不接种疫苗。但如果这是中东呼吸综合征或亨德拉病毒的话，我不知道“到处都是风险的生活”会把你带到哪里。
自由主义的一个基本观点是：你没有权利去杀害别人。
Something isn't 'illiberal' just because it's not advocating some extreme form of libertarianism.
As a society, we require people to follow basic rules of health and hygiene in order to keep everyone else safe.
I agree that 'effectively' mandating vaccines is a bad strategy because it's ineffective. But in principle, it's not illiberal. Vaccines aren't some magical area of healthcare that follow a different set of standards.
Either we can't demand people follow any rules of health or hygiene, or it would be fine to require people to have a vaccination to do certain things. It doesn't make any sense to draw some arbitrary line because a bunch of conspiracy theorists don't believe in them.
It's only because Covid isn't that lethal that we can ultimately abide some people choosing to not get vaccinated when they could. I don't know where 'life is full of risk' would get you if this was MERS or the Hendra virus.
A basic tenant of liberalism is also that you don't have the right to go around killing other people.
有些东西不会仅仅因为它不提倡某种极端形式的自由主义，就是“狭隘的”。
作为一个社会，我们要求人们遵循健康和卫生的基本规则，以确保其他人的安全。
我同意“全面”推广疫苗是一个糟糕的策略，因为它是无效的。但原则上，这并不是偏激。疫苗并不是医疗保健中遵循一套不同标准的神奇领域。
要么我们不能要求人们遵守任何健康或卫生规则，要么我们可以要求人们接种疫苗来做某些事情。武断地划定界限是没有任何意义的，因为一群阴谋论者不相信它们。
只是因为冠状病毒不是那么致命，我们最终能够容忍一些人在可以接种时选择不接种疫苗。但如果这是中东呼吸综合征或亨德拉病毒的话，我不知道“到处都是风险的生活”会把你带到哪里。
自由主义的一个基本观点是：你没有权利去杀害别人。
Get_Breakfast_Done
Something isn't 'illiberal' just because it's not advocating some extreme form of libertarianism.
Not requiring businesses to verify an individual’s vaccination status before providing a service to a customer is hardly an “extreme form of libertarianism.”
“有些东西不会仅仅因为它不提倡某种极端形式的自由主义，就是‘狭隘的’”
在向客户提供服务之前，不要求企业非得核实个人的疫苗接种状况，这很难说是一种“极端形式的自由主义”。
Something isn't 'illiberal' just because it's not advocating some extreme form of libertarianism.
Not requiring businesses to verify an individual’s vaccination status before providing a service to a customer is hardly an “extreme form of libertarianism.”
“有些东西不会仅仅因为它不提倡某种极端形式的自由主义，就是‘狭隘的’”
在向客户提供服务之前，不要求企业非得核实个人的疫苗接种状况，这很难说是一种“极端形式的自由主义”。
carlio
To play devils advocate : how is this different from pubs and off licenses and other businesses being required to validate someone's age to serve them alcohol?
(for what it's worth I'm against vaccine passports, just trying to see if I can make a good faith argument for the opposite side.)
客串一下反方：但这和酒吧、酒吧执照和其他营业场所需要验证某人的年龄才能提供酒有什么不同？
（不管怎样，我反对疫苗护照，只是想看看我能否为相反的一方提出一个真诚的论点。）
To play devils advocate : how is this different from pubs and off licenses and other businesses being required to validate someone's age to serve them alcohol?
(for what it's worth I'm against vaccine passports, just trying to see if I can make a good faith argument for the opposite side.)
客串一下反方：但这和酒吧、酒吧执照和其他营业场所需要验证某人的年龄才能提供酒有什么不同？
（不管怎样，我反对疫苗护照，只是想看看我能否为相反的一方提出一个真诚的论点。）
Wapentake
Prohibition of alcohol access by minors is in place because they cannot make decisions for themselves about their healthcare, which is why we as society say 'don't drink yet, you don't know the consequences of your actions'. Adults, however are allowed to make that decision because they're considered capable of assessing the risk that goes with any given action (although we're increasingly abandoning that, think fast food advertising bans etc). Vaccination is a medical treatment, and at the end of the day the decision over whether or not you wish to undergo it should be up to you, because you, as an adult, should have the ability to exercise bodily autonomy. Although it may increase your chance of making someone else ill by not getting it, the default state of the human is not to have undergone that treatment, and under the ancient jurisprudence in English common law countries, you have no legal duty to act to protect another person from something which is of natural origin (the legal example always given is that you've no obligation to help a drowning man).
禁止未成年人喝酒是因为他们不能自己决定自己的健康，这就是为什么我们社会说“还不能喝酒，因为你不知道你的行为的后果”。然而，成年人被允许做这个决定，因为他们被认为有能力评估任何给定行为的风险（尽管我们越来越多地放弃了这一点，想想快餐广告禁令等等）。接种疫苗是一种医学治疗，说到底，你是否愿意接种疫苗应该由你自己决定，因为你作为成年人，应该有能力行使身体自主权。尽管它可能会增加你没有接种它而使别人生病的机率，人类的默认状态是没有经历过这种治疗，在英国普通法国家的古代法学中，你没有法律义务去保护另一个人免受自然发生的事情的伤害（通常给出的法律例子是你没有义务去帮助一个溺水的人）。（译注：中国法律定性为“不作为”，在一定情况下是会犯罪的，所以我们还是提倡要见义勇为。）
Prohibition of alcohol access by minors is in place because they cannot make decisions for themselves about their healthcare, which is why we as society say 'don't drink yet, you don't know the consequences of your actions'. Adults, however are allowed to make that decision because they're considered capable of assessing the risk that goes with any given action (although we're increasingly abandoning that, think fast food advertising bans etc). Vaccination is a medical treatment, and at the end of the day the decision over whether or not you wish to undergo it should be up to you, because you, as an adult, should have the ability to exercise bodily autonomy. Although it may increase your chance of making someone else ill by not getting it, the default state of the human is not to have undergone that treatment, and under the ancient jurisprudence in English common law countries, you have no legal duty to act to protect another person from something which is of natural origin (the legal example always given is that you've no obligation to help a drowning man).
禁止未成年人喝酒是因为他们不能自己决定自己的健康，这就是为什么我们社会说“还不能喝酒，因为你不知道你的行为的后果”。然而，成年人被允许做这个决定，因为他们被认为有能力评估任何给定行为的风险（尽管我们越来越多地放弃了这一点，想想快餐广告禁令等等）。接种疫苗是一种医学治疗，说到底，你是否愿意接种疫苗应该由你自己决定，因为你作为成年人，应该有能力行使身体自主权。尽管它可能会增加你没有接种它而使别人生病的机率，人类的默认状态是没有经历过这种治疗，在英国普通法国家的古代法学中，你没有法律义务去保护另一个人免受自然发生的事情的伤害（通常给出的法律例子是你没有义务去帮助一个溺水的人）。（译注：中国法律定性为“不作为”，在一定情况下是会犯罪的，所以我们还是提倡要见义勇为。）
habylabWhere's Your Tory Landslide?
I don't think this is sensible. It's reasonable to try and limit chances of spread where possible. Large scale events you book in advance, asking for either vaccine proof/negative test or antibodies proof isn't that much to ask.
我认为取消护照是不明智的。在可能的地方尝试和限制传播的机会是合理的。你提前预定的大型活动，要求疫苗证明/阴性测试或抗体证明并不是过分的要求。
I don't think this is sensible. It's reasonable to try and limit chances of spread where possible. Large scale events you book in advance, asking for either vaccine proof/negative test or antibodies proof isn't that much to ask.
我认为取消护照是不明智的。在可能的地方尝试和限制传播的机会是合理的。你提前预定的大型活动，要求疫苗证明/阴性测试或抗体证明并不是过分的要求。
AdmiralGingeChaotic Neutral Party
Good riddance! Let’s hope this turd of a policy has been permanently flushed and doesn’t float to the surface again. This is good news for privacy and those who oppose post-pandemic authoritarianism.
终于解脱了！让我们希望这一垃圾政策已经被永久地被废除，不会再浮上水面。这对隐私和那些反对大流行后威权主义的人来说是个好消息。
Good riddance! Let’s hope this turd of a policy has been permanently flushed and doesn’t float to the surface again. This is good news for privacy and those who oppose post-pandemic authoritarianism.
终于解脱了！让我们希望这一垃圾政策已经被永久地被废除，不会再浮上水面。这对隐私和那些反对大流行后威权主义的人来说是个好消息。
Maleficent-Drive4056
Everyone saying this policy is ‘unworkable’ should be less insular. I live in a country where it is already policy and it works fine. I’m not saying it’s necessary or ethical, but it is workable.
所有说这一政策“行不通”的人都不应该那么狭隘。我所在的国家已经有了这样的政策，而且运行良好。我不是说这是必要的或道德的，但它是可行的。
Everyone saying this policy is ‘unworkable’ should be less insular. I live in a country where it is already policy and it works fine. I’m not saying it’s necessary or ethical, but it is workable.
所有说这一政策“行不通”的人都不应该那么狭隘。我所在的国家已经有了这样的政策，而且运行良好。我不是说这是必要的或道德的，但它是可行的。
ClutchHunterIncreasingly cynical
Reminds me of Americans arguing about how impossible universal healthcare or gun control would be there.
Yeah, because of your circular opposition.
这让我想起了美国人在争论全民医保和控枪是多么不可能。
是的，因为你们的循环反对。
Reminds me of Americans arguing about how impossible universal healthcare or gun control would be there.
Yeah, because of your circular opposition.
这让我想起了美国人在争论全民医保和控枪是多么不可能。
是的，因为你们的循环反对。
helenhellerhell
Yeah I'm in Austria and it works here, I guess the big difference is how easy it is to get tested. I've had more tests in the 2 months I've been here than the 12 months I was in the UK. I definitely feel safer going out knowing everyone else in the building is tested.
是的，我在奥地利，疫苗护照在这里起作用了，我想最大的区别就是做检测有多容易。我在这里的两个月里接受的检测比我在英国的12个月加起来还要多。知道楼里的其他人都在接受检测，我肯定会觉得更安全。
Yeah I'm in Austria and it works here, I guess the big difference is how easy it is to get tested. I've had more tests in the 2 months I've been here than the 12 months I was in the UK. I definitely feel safer going out knowing everyone else in the building is tested.
是的，我在奥地利，疫苗护照在这里起作用了，我想最大的区别就是做检测有多容易。我在这里的两个月里接受的检测比我在英国的12个月加起来还要多。知道楼里的其他人都在接受检测，我肯定会觉得更安全。
很赞 1
收藏