公元117年，罗马帝国地形图
正文翻译
图
图
评论翻译
JimDixon
Funny, the mountains were in the same places they are today.
有趣的是，这些山还在它们原来在的地方。
Funny, the mountains were in the same places they are today.
有趣的是，这些山还在它们原来在的地方。
MyCodesCumpie-ling
The shape of England's coastline around The Wash would have been different I imagine, given this map predates the draining of the fens. Would the part of the Netherlands visible have been much different too?
考虑到这张地图出现在沼泽干涸之前，沃什湾周围的英格兰海岸线的形状跟我想象中的可能会有所出入。尼德兰的可见部分是不是也应有很大的不同?
The shape of England's coastline around The Wash would have been different I imagine, given this map predates the draining of the fens. Would the part of the Netherlands visible have been much different too?
考虑到这张地图出现在沼泽干涸之前，沃什湾周围的英格兰海岸线的形状跟我想象中的可能会有所出入。尼德兰的可见部分是不是也应有很大的不同?
Arganthonios_Silver
Yes, I suppose the author ignores that part, as he included some of the coastal changes from ancient Hispania, as Lacus Ligustinus in southwestern Iberia, the "inner" bay that reached current Seville.
Most non-rocky lowlands coasts in Europe, specially on river mouths, changed drastically in the last 2000 years.
是的，我认为作者忽略了这一部分，因为他包括了一些来自古西班牙的海岸变化，比如伊比利亚西南部的利古斯丁努斯湖，这个“内”湾到达了现在的塞维利亚。
在过去的2000年里，欧洲大部分非岩石低地海岸，特别是河口，发生了巨大的变化。
Yes, I suppose the author ignores that part, as he included some of the coastal changes from ancient Hispania, as Lacus Ligustinus in southwestern Iberia, the "inner" bay that reached current Seville.
Most non-rocky lowlands coasts in Europe, specially on river mouths, changed drastically in the last 2000 years.
是的，我认为作者忽略了这一部分，因为他包括了一些来自古西班牙的海岸变化，比如伊比利亚西南部的利古斯丁努斯湖，这个“内”湾到达了现在的塞维利亚。
在过去的2000年里，欧洲大部分非岩石低地海岸，特别是河口，发生了巨大的变化。
Home--Builder
This must be just after Hadrian abandoned Mesopotamia.
这一定是在哈德良放弃美索不达米亚之后的疆域图。
This must be just after Hadrian abandoned Mesopotamia.
这一定是在哈德良放弃美索不达米亚之后的疆域图。
jbkjbk2310
It's good to see a "Big Roman Empirex map that doesn't include Mesopotamia. They only held it for a couple of months, afaik we have a specific date for Hadrian's evacuation in 117 but not a specific date for Trajan's annexation in 116 (or it's the other way around, I do not remember), but it's definitely less than a year.
很高兴看到“不包括美索不达米亚的大罗马帝国地图”。他们只在这地方待了几个月，因为我们只知道哈德良撤退的具体日期是在117年，但不知道116年图拉真吞并两河地区的具体日期(或者是反过来，我不记得了)，但肯定不到一年。
It's good to see a "Big Roman Empirex map that doesn't include Mesopotamia. They only held it for a couple of months, afaik we have a specific date for Hadrian's evacuation in 117 but not a specific date for Trajan's annexation in 116 (or it's the other way around, I do not remember), but it's definitely less than a year.
很高兴看到“不包括美索不达米亚的大罗马帝国地图”。他们只在这地方待了几个月，因为我们只知道哈德良撤退的具体日期是在117年，但不知道116年图拉真吞并两河地区的具体日期(或者是反过来，我不记得了)，但肯定不到一年。
Kunstfr
The title of the thread literally says 117 AD
这贴标题说了是公元117年 stiof95
The title of the thread literally says 117 AD
这贴标题说了是公元117年 stiof95
Well it was abandoned in 117. So the map could show it with or without and still be able to say it’s from 117.
它在117年被放弃了。所以无论地图上包不包括美索不达米亚，都没错。
它在117年被放弃了。所以无论地图上包不包括美索不达米亚，都没错。
Home--Builder
Yes.
确实。
Yes.
确实。
Insterquiliniis
where's that little village in France they never conquered?
他们从未征服的那个法国小村在图上哪?
where's that little village in France they never conquered?
他们从未征服的那个法国小村在图上哪?
john_meffen
I might be going out on a limb here ... but I really don't think the Isle of Man was ever part of the Roman Empire.
我可能是独一个……但还是要说我真的不认为马恩岛曾经是罗马帝国的一部分。
I might be going out on a limb here ... but I really don't think the Isle of Man was ever part of the Roman Empire.
我可能是独一个……但还是要说我真的不认为马恩岛曾经是罗马帝国的一部分。
Blueknight903
It’s mostly up to debate
此地是有争议的
It’s mostly up to debate
此地是有争议的
dracarysmuthafucker
Also I'm pretty sure Cornwall wasn't conquered either, just traded with
我很确定康沃尔也不是被征服的，只是跟他们做贸易而已
Also I'm pretty sure Cornwall wasn't conquered either, just traded with
我很确定康沃尔也不是被征服的，只是跟他们做贸易而已
john_meffen
Yeah, the Romans tended to brag about their conquests and build Roman things. Lack of these are pretty much a giveaway that they never colonised a place.
This is not to say they could not have. A bit like Scotland they probably did a cost/benefit analysis and decided trade was enough.
是啊，罗马人喜欢吹嘘他们的征服和建造罗马的东西。这些东西（指遗迹）的缺乏是他们从未殖民过一个地方的一个明显的信号。
当然这并不是说他们做不到。有点像苏格兰，他们可能做了成本/收益分析，认为贸易就足够了。
Yeah, the Romans tended to brag about their conquests and build Roman things. Lack of these are pretty much a giveaway that they never colonised a place.
This is not to say they could not have. A bit like Scotland they probably did a cost/benefit analysis and decided trade was enough.
是啊，罗马人喜欢吹嘘他们的征服和建造罗马的东西。这些东西（指遗迹）的缺乏是他们从未殖民过一个地方的一个明显的信号。
当然这并不是说他们做不到。有点像苏格兰，他们可能做了成本/收益分析，认为贸易就足够了。
Basteir
They tried quite hard to conquer Scotland for a couple of centuries. Emperor Septimius Severus came personally around 210 CE but the Romans lost 50,000 of their own invasion force - due to attrition and guerrilla tactics - however the Caledonians/Picts and Scots were very much weakened.
After retreating to what is now England, the emperor and his son intended to come north again and genocide everyone, but Septimus died and his son sued for peace and returned to Rome.
Sure if they made it priority #1 they could have - at even greater cost than they'd already expended, but if's and but's do not a cake make.
几个世纪以来，他们非常努力地试图征服苏格兰。公元210年左右，皇帝塞普提米乌斯·塞维鲁亲自出兵，但由于损耗和游击战术，罗马损失了5万人的入侵部队，然而喀里多尼人/皮克特人和苏格兰人的实力也因此大大削弱了。
在撤退到现在的英格兰之后，皇帝和他的儿子打算再次回到北方并屠杀所有人，但塞普提米乌斯死了，他的儿子请求议和并返回罗马。
当然，如果他们把征服苏格兰放在首位目标，应该能做到。他们本可以这样做的——以比他们已经花费的更大的成本，但如果就是如果而且这么做并不值。
They tried quite hard to conquer Scotland for a couple of centuries. Emperor Septimius Severus came personally around 210 CE but the Romans lost 50,000 of their own invasion force - due to attrition and guerrilla tactics - however the Caledonians/Picts and Scots were very much weakened.
After retreating to what is now England, the emperor and his son intended to come north again and genocide everyone, but Septimus died and his son sued for peace and returned to Rome.
Sure if they made it priority #1 they could have - at even greater cost than they'd already expended, but if's and but's do not a cake make.
几个世纪以来，他们非常努力地试图征服苏格兰。公元210年左右，皇帝塞普提米乌斯·塞维鲁亲自出兵，但由于损耗和游击战术，罗马损失了5万人的入侵部队，然而喀里多尼人/皮克特人和苏格兰人的实力也因此大大削弱了。
在撤退到现在的英格兰之后，皇帝和他的儿子打算再次回到北方并屠杀所有人，但塞普提米乌斯死了，他的儿子请求议和并返回罗马。
当然，如果他们把征服苏格兰放在首位目标，应该能做到。他们本可以这样做的——以比他们已经花费的更大的成本，但如果就是如果而且这么做并不值。
iberoradical
Gadir, what a great detail.
加迪斯（Gadir是腓尼基语里的Gadiz）那边（西班牙左下角缺的一小块），细节满满
Gadir, what a great detail.
加迪斯（Gadir是腓尼基语里的Gadiz）那边（西班牙左下角缺的一小块），细节满满
Arganthonios_Silver
Gadir/Gades bay was to the South of that "peculiar" coast, at a couple of islands not visible here. That ancient almost "inner sea" visible in the map was Lacus Ligustinus, the great gulf that existed in the current Guadalquivir marshes.
加迪尔/加迪斯湾位于那个“奇特”海岸的南部，在这里看不到的几个岛屿上。在地图上可见的那个古老的几乎是“内海”的地方是利古斯丁努斯湖，这个大海湾存在于现在的瓜达尔基维尔沼泽中。
Gadir/Gades bay was to the South of that "peculiar" coast, at a couple of islands not visible here. That ancient almost "inner sea" visible in the map was Lacus Ligustinus, the great gulf that existed in the current Guadalquivir marshes.
加迪尔/加迪斯湾位于那个“奇特”海岸的南部，在这里看不到的几个岛屿上。在地图上可见的那个古老的几乎是“内海”的地方是利古斯丁努斯湖，这个大海湾存在于现在的瓜达尔基维尔沼泽中。
Raghnaill
On the one hand I'm proud Scotland has a history of never being colonised by the Roman empire but it's also frustrating because I have to travel to England to see cool Roman villas, bath houses and fortifications.
Goddamn it Caesar, you failed Scotland.
一方面，我为苏格兰从未被罗马帝国殖民过的历史感到骄傲，但同时也感到沮丧，因为我不得不去英格兰看罗马别墅、澡堂和要塞。
该死的凯撒，你辜负了苏格兰。
On the one hand I'm proud Scotland has a history of never being colonised by the Roman empire but it's also frustrating because I have to travel to England to see cool Roman villas, bath houses and fortifications.
Goddamn it Caesar, you failed Scotland.
一方面，我为苏格兰从未被罗马帝国殖民过的历史感到骄傲，但同时也感到沮丧，因为我不得不去英格兰看罗马别墅、澡堂和要塞。
该死的凯撒，你辜负了苏格兰。
LurkerInSpace
They very briefly did take the south up to the Antonine Wall, but only stuck around for 20 years or so. That wall is less well preserved than Hadrian's.
他们很短的时间内就从南方打到了安东尼长城，但只停留了20年左右。那堵墙保存得不如哈德良长城好。
They very briefly did take the south up to the Antonine Wall, but only stuck around for 20 years or so. That wall is less well preserved than Hadrian's.
他们很短的时间内就从南方打到了安东尼长城，但只停留了20年左右。那堵墙保存得不如哈德良长城好。
QuickSpore
I think more significant was the campaigns of Agricola in the 70s and 80s. The Romans captured all the lowlands, driving the Caledonians into the highlands and even got the Orkneys to submit. The Romans controlled everything up to Inverness and established camps all along the northern edge of the lowlands, with the main fort apparently being at Inchtuthil north of Perth. When they excavated the camp they found over 10 tons of just nails. The fort would have housed 5,000-6,000 legionaries.
Direct rule only lasted for about a decade. The area appears to have been handed over to allies like the Venicones. There was a flurry of construction of local forts in the area and there’s a ton of Roman goods that start showing up in the archeological record, suggesting that the Venicones and others were doing fairly for themselves as Roman clients.
The Romans returned to enforce direct rule around the mid to late 130s. After the campaigning in the 130s and 140s direct Roman rule lasted until the 160s. The Romans would return to directly occupy the lowlands in the 190s through 210s.
It’s only with Caracalla that the Romans permanently withdrew behind Hadrian’s wall. All told the Romans likely ruled the lowlands for about 80 years off and on, and mantained indirect rule (via clients) for another 60 years.
我认为更重要的是公元70年代和80年代的阿古利可拉运动。罗马人占领了所有低地地区（这里的低地指的应该是苏格兰低地，不是今荷兰比利时），把喀里多尼亚人赶到高地，甚至让奥克尼人臣服。罗马人控制了一切，一直到因弗内斯，并在低地的北部边缘建立了营地，要塞显然是在珀斯北部的英奇突瑟尔。在建设营地时，光钉子就用了超过10吨。这座堡垒能容纳5000 - 6000名士兵。
直接统治只持续了大约十年。该地区似乎随后移交给了像维尼科内人这样的盟友。这一地区掀起了一股当地要塞的建设热潮。考古学记录中出现了大量的罗马商品，这表明维尼科内人和其他人作为罗马人的贸易伙伴为自己谋取了公平的利益。
大约在公元130年代中后期，罗马人回来此地实行直接统治。在130和140年代的战争之后，罗马的直接统治一直持续到160年代。罗马人在190年至210年左右是直接占领低地。
只有在卡拉卡拉时期，罗马人才永久撤退到哈德良的城墙后面。所有这些都表明，罗马人可能断断续续统治低地（苏格兰低地地区）约80年，并维持间接统治 (通过代理人)60年。
I think more significant was the campaigns of Agricola in the 70s and 80s. The Romans captured all the lowlands, driving the Caledonians into the highlands and even got the Orkneys to submit. The Romans controlled everything up to Inverness and established camps all along the northern edge of the lowlands, with the main fort apparently being at Inchtuthil north of Perth. When they excavated the camp they found over 10 tons of just nails. The fort would have housed 5,000-6,000 legionaries.
Direct rule only lasted for about a decade. The area appears to have been handed over to allies like the Venicones. There was a flurry of construction of local forts in the area and there’s a ton of Roman goods that start showing up in the archeological record, suggesting that the Venicones and others were doing fairly for themselves as Roman clients.
The Romans returned to enforce direct rule around the mid to late 130s. After the campaigning in the 130s and 140s direct Roman rule lasted until the 160s. The Romans would return to directly occupy the lowlands in the 190s through 210s.
It’s only with Caracalla that the Romans permanently withdrew behind Hadrian’s wall. All told the Romans likely ruled the lowlands for about 80 years off and on, and mantained indirect rule (via clients) for another 60 years.
我认为更重要的是公元70年代和80年代的阿古利可拉运动。罗马人占领了所有低地地区（这里的低地指的应该是苏格兰低地，不是今荷兰比利时），把喀里多尼亚人赶到高地，甚至让奥克尼人臣服。罗马人控制了一切，一直到因弗内斯，并在低地的北部边缘建立了营地，要塞显然是在珀斯北部的英奇突瑟尔。在建设营地时，光钉子就用了超过10吨。这座堡垒能容纳5000 - 6000名士兵。
直接统治只持续了大约十年。该地区似乎随后移交给了像维尼科内人这样的盟友。这一地区掀起了一股当地要塞的建设热潮。考古学记录中出现了大量的罗马商品，这表明维尼科内人和其他人作为罗马人的贸易伙伴为自己谋取了公平的利益。
大约在公元130年代中后期，罗马人回来此地实行直接统治。在130和140年代的战争之后，罗马的直接统治一直持续到160年代。罗马人在190年至210年左右是直接占领低地。
只有在卡拉卡拉时期，罗马人才永久撤退到哈德良的城墙后面。所有这些都表明，罗马人可能断断续续统治低地（苏格兰低地地区）约80年，并维持间接统治 (通过代理人)60年。
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