立陶宛、匈牙利和丹麦等欧洲国家是如何从中世纪的大帝国变成现在这样如此小的弱国的?
2022-01-12 兰陵笑笑生 24393
正文翻译

How did some European countries like Lithuania, Hungary and Denmark go from large medi empires to such small and weak states?

立陶宛、匈牙利和丹麦等欧洲国家是如何从中世纪的大帝国变成现在这样如此小的弱国的?

原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


评论翻译
Napoleon de Geso
, works at Iran's Nuclear Program
Just few dates about Lithuania and lithuanians
1253 Mindaugas crowned as first king of unified Lithuania
1547 published first book in lithuanian language (in Prussia, catechismus by lithuanian prostestant priest, and financed by Prussian duke)
1595 published first book in lithuanian language in Lithuanian Grand Duchy (catholic cathechismus)

关于立陶宛和立陶宛人的几个重要日期:
1253年Mindaugas加冕为统一的立陶宛的第一位国王
1547年出版了第一本立陶宛语书籍(在普鲁士,由立陶宛新教徒牧师编写的慕道书,并由普鲁士公爵资助)。
1595年,在立陶宛大公国出版了第一本立陶宛语书籍(天主教的《教义》)。

Juan Flores
Do you know the meaning of the expression to get one's right deserts?

你知道 "罪有应得"的意思吗?

Erjon Hektor Nyköping
, former Cabin Crew at Scandinavian Airlines
Denmark is a very strong country and not at all weak.
It is very developed as well. A small country does not necessarily mean that it is weak. This question does not make sense.

丹麦是一个非常强大的国家,一点也不弱。
它也是非常发达的。一个小国家不一定意味着它是弱国。这个问题没有意义。

Mick Montenegro
it makes sense…… Denmark is rich thats true, but Hungary and Lithuania are not. However, all three are political dwarves and unimportant players on global scene…. yet in the past they were the giants.

这是有道理的......丹麦很富有,这是事实,但匈牙利和立陶宛不是。然而,这三个国家都是政治上的小矮人,在全球舞台上都是不重要的角色....但在过去,它们却是巨人。

Erjon Hektor Nyköping
With all due respect and in the past, Egypt has built pyramids that we can not build with our technology but at the same time is a very poor country.
The past does not matter, the present matters. Denmark is not small, it has Greenland and Iceland, plus Scandinavia is a unx and it can be like before.
They are rich because they have a plan for the future and the economy, the west and Lithuania are dependent on other countries due to poor management policy

恕我直言,在过去,埃及建造了我们的技术无法建造的金字塔,但在现在也是一个非常贫穷的国家。
过去并不重要,重要的是现在。丹麦不小,它有格陵兰和冰岛,加上斯堪的纳维亚半岛是一个联盟,它可以像以前一样。
他们之所以富裕是因为他们对未来和经济有计划,西方和立陶宛由于管理政策不完善而依赖其他国家

Christina Jensen
While Denmark is small, it is definetely not weak. Why it is so small, is because of arrogance. Thinking they could win against Sweden in the 1600 and Prussia in 1864, as Well as being forced to Pick Napoleon’s side during the Napoleonic Wars. But despite the hardship it found a Way to stay strong and devleoped. Not weak.
Hungary went from being part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, to being an independent country, after the abolishing of said Empire after WWI. Whether it is weak, I Can not say because I don’t know much of this country.

虽然丹麦很小,但它绝对不弱。为什么它这么小,是因为它的傲慢。他们认为自己可以在1600年战胜瑞典,在1864年战胜普鲁士,以及在拿破仑战争期间被迫站在拿破仑一边。但尽管困难重重,它还是找到了保持强大和发展的方法。而不是变弱。
匈牙利从奥匈帝国的一部分,到一战后废除该帝国后成为一个独立国家。它是否变弱了,我不能断言,因为我对这个国家了解不多。

Maciej Kulczycki
Did not Denmark surrender immediately to the Third Reich?

丹麦不是马上向第三帝国投降了吗?
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Christina Jensen
Yes, but unlike previous conflicts, after WWII we didn’t loose further territories and we also showed Resistance against the Nazis in several different ways.

是的,但与以往的冲突不同,二战后我们没有失去更多的领土,我们还以多种不同的方式表现出对纳粹的抵抗。

Gunārs Miezis
, knows Russian
The ammoun of land a nation possesses is corelated to their strength. These days lietuvieši, hungarians, and danes are weaker compared to their neibors than they used to be thus they have less land than they used to.

一个国家拥有的土地数量与他们的实力息息相关。近来,立陶宛,匈牙利人和丹麦人与他们的邻国相比,确实比以前更弱了,因此他们的土地比以前少了。

Ognivo Vitaliy
, Entrepreneur
First of all, I disagree that Lithuania and Denmark are weak country.
Then, if we talk about medi Lithuania you must understand that it was three nations country. Modern Ukrainian, Belorussian and Lithuanians people lived in that country. Sometimes it called Grand Duchy of Lithuania of Russia and Samogitia. It was really big country which could gather huge armies.

首先,我不同意立陶宛和丹麦是弱国的说法。
然后,如果我们谈论中世纪的立陶宛,你必须了解它是三个国家。现代乌克兰人、白俄罗斯人和立陶宛人都生活在这个国家。有时它被称为俄罗斯和萨莫吉特的立陶宛大公国。它是一个真正的大国,可以汇集大量的军队。

Thomas Rijswijk
, lives in The Netherlands (1997-present)
I will have a go at explaining this, don’t take my answers as an absolute however as I’m leaving out various facts for the sake of posterity.
Lithuania
The main factor that led to the sudden and explosive growth of Lithuania after the 13th century was the fragmentation of Kievan Rus in the 11th century. This vast power vacuum created multiple splintered Russian states where previously there had been one vast power.
Lithuania was then in a prime position to pick up land from these states and expand into a behemoth of a country relative to its contemporaries. The issue here is that the majority of this land remained ethnically Russian/Byelorussian. I would imagine that even without it being sandwiched between Russia, Prussia and Austria Hungary the polish-Lithuanian commonwealth would eventually have collapsed to the rise of nationalism in the same vein Austro-Hungary did.
This explains why modern Lithuania is such a tiny and relatively ‘weak’ country, as current Lithuania solely spans area inhabited by ethnic Lithuanians instead of also incorporating an enormous number of Russians and Byelorussians.
Hungary
Unlike Lithuania Hungary actually had a sizeable population going for it, but it still ended up as a ‘small’ country in Europe for the same reason Germany lost 1/3rd of its territory: the world wars.
The treaty of Trianon saw Hungary over 70% of the territory it had previously held within Austro Hungary. Most of this wasn’t inhabited by even a minority of Hungarians but it still saw enormous numbers of Hungarians split off. I imagine that the loss of this territory and its population/resources it one of the contributing factors to Hungary lack of ‘power’ in modern day Europe.
You should also think about the fact that most landlocked nations that aren’t especially rich in terms of resources can’t be expected to become ‘powerful’ in the modern world.
Denmark
I’m not all that knowledgeable about Danish history, but I imagine most of its former power came from trade. As a Dutchmen I know the Netherlands experienced a period of immense wealth in parts thank to trading in grain from the Baltics and that the Danish profited from this by taxing any passage through their waters.
I guess Danish power declined as a result of trade moving towards the North sea instead of the Baltic sea and because of the end of Danish control over the Swedes and Norwegians.

我将对这个问题进行解释,但不要把我的答案当作绝对的,因为我为了子孙后人,省略了各种事实。
立陶宛:
导致立陶宛在13世纪后突然爆发性增长的主要因素是基辅罗斯在11世纪的分裂。这个巨大的权力真空造成了多个四分五裂的罗斯国家,而此前这里只有一个庞大的霸主。
立陶宛当时处于有利地位,可以从这些国家手中夺取土地,并且相对于其同时代的国家来说,更容易扩展成一个庞然大物。这里的问题是,这块土地的大部分仍然是俄罗斯/白俄罗斯的民族。我想,即使没有夹在俄罗斯、普鲁士和奥地利之间的匈牙利,波兰-立陶宛联邦最终也会像奥匈帝国一样,因民族主义的崛起而崩溃。
这就解释了为什么现代立陶宛是一个如此微小和相对"弱小"的国家,因为目前的立陶宛只跨越了立陶宛族人居住的地区,而没有纳入大量的俄罗斯人和白俄罗斯人。
匈牙利:
与立陶宛不同,匈牙利实际上有相当多的人口,但它仍然是欧洲的一个"小"国家,原因与德国失去了1/3的领土一样:世界大战。
在《特里亚侬条约》中,匈牙利获得了它以前在奥匈帝国拥有的70%的领土。其中大部分地区甚至没有多少匈牙利人在居住,但仍有大量的匈牙利人被分割了出去。我想,失去这块领土及其人口/资源是导致匈牙利在现代欧洲缺乏"力量"的因素之一。
你也应该考虑到这样一个事实,即大多数在资源方面不是特别丰富的内陆国家不可能在现代世界中成为"强国"。
丹麦:
我对丹麦的历史不是很了解,但我想象它以前的大部分力量来自于贸易。作为一个荷兰人,我知道荷兰经历了一个巨大的财富爆发时期,部分原因是来自波罗的海的谷物贸易,丹麦人通过对通过其水域的任何通道征税而从中获利。
我猜测丹麦的实力下降是由于贸易向北海而不是波罗的海转移,以及由于丹麦对瑞典人和挪威人的控制结束。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


David Szabo
But in the medi times the percentages of the Hungarian population was much higher in Hungary (I do not count now Croatia because it was personal unx with Hungary and I do not see any problem that Croatia and Hungary now are indepent states). But it was many many wars and devastations and many immigrations, like today many immigrants move to western Europe thus the population is already different like 100 years ago.
Also the new border did not follow the ethnic borders and it cerated many new multi ethnic artificial countries where the Hungarians were supressed.

但在中世纪,匈牙利的人口比例要高得多(我现在不计算克罗地亚,因为它与匈牙利是联盟,我不认为克罗地亚和匈牙利现在是独立的国家有什么问题)。但当时有很多战争和破坏,也有很多移民,就像今天很多移民移居到西欧一样,因此人口已经和100年前不同了。
此外,新的边界并没有遵循民族边界,它创造了许多新的多民族的人造国家,匈牙利人在那些国家受到压制。

Nyerges Á. Zoltán
Using those post-medi data are not valid for Hungary. Because during the 300 years-long turkish wars most of the Hungarians were killed or dragged into slavery. This is how we became minority in our own country.

使用那些中世纪以后的数据对匈牙利来说是无效的。因为在长达300年的对土耳其战争期间,大多数匈牙利人被杀害或被拖入奴隶制。这就是我们在自己的国家成为少数民族的原因。

Bruno L
If you want a simple answer.
Lithuania because of Russia and Germany. Denmark because of the founder of Sweden. Hungary because of the world wars.
Mostly, European nations tended to coherence from shared similarities, but other powers would try to weaken them or keep them apart. That’s how you get the balance of power that fuels the dynamics of Europe since the Middle Ages to the current era.
This is of course an oversimplification. Form this general idea do some research.

如果你想要一个简单的答案。
立陶宛是因为俄罗斯和德国。丹麦是因为瑞典的独立。匈牙利是因为世界大战的缘故。
大多数情况下,欧洲国家因共同的相似性而趋于一致,但其他大国会试图削弱它们或使它们分离。这就是你如何得到权力的平衡,它助长了自中世纪到现在的欧洲的动态发展。
这当然是过于简单化了。形成这个总体思路要做一些研究。

Victor Haydin
, map lover
We modern people tend to put equality sign between modern states and historical ones that have a similar name and occupy somewhat similar territory. However, in fact most modern countries are Nation States, a concept that largely developed throughout 19th century. For sure there is certain continuity between modern Lithuania and medi Grand Duchy of Lithuania (GDL), as well as modern Hungary and medi Kingdom of Hungary, not talking about Kingdom of Denmark, which is still ruled by the same royal dynasty since 15th century or so. But this continuity shouldn’t be overestimated. Medi states weren’t nations: they were sort of family businesses specialized in governing, war, diplomacy and tax collection that controlled certain territories and were supported by elites living on these territories.
In some cases these territories were populated by rather homogenous ethnicity speaking the same language and because of that they were very similar to their descendant nation state. But in other cases, royal families and their closest allies were representing relatively small ethnic groups from smaller territories that gradually managed to expand their influence on neighbouring ethnicities, but couldn’t influence major change in language and identity of people living there. Both medi Lithuania and Hungary are examples of such. My answer will be mostly covering Lithuanian case, as I am more knowledgeable about it than about Hungary.
1000 years of European borders, source: Google.
Medi Grand Duchy of Lithuania (GDL) was build on ashes of Kyivan Rus’ destroyed by Mongolian invasion. Being largely untouched by Mongols, GDL was perfectly positioned to quickly fill the power vacuum that formed on Rus’ lands in the aftermath. In a very short time, Gediminids expanded their territory from what is modern territory of Lithuania to include what is now Belarus and majority of Ukraine. Of course these territories were still populated by Ruthenians, who were a majority in this new great empire of Eastern Europe. For most of the people living there at the time transfer of power to Lithuanian state wasn’t really a big deal: they were still living lives they lived before, speaking the same language, practicing the same religion, sometimes even paying taxes to the same local lord, even though the latter would transfer a cut of it to someone else.
Map of Grand Duchy of Lithuania at its greatest extent. Greyish northwestern territory is a ethnic Lithuanian territories, from where it all expanded. Green territories are mostly former lands of Kyivan Rus, populated by Ruthenians.
Despite being ruled by Lithuanian royal family, this state used Ruthenian language as one of the official languages, along with Lithuanian and Polish. Statutes of Lithuania (legal code of the state) were written in three languages including Ruthenian. In fact, the text itself was heavily based on Rus’ka Pravda - medi legal code of Kyivan Rus, first written by Yaroslav the Wise, Grand Duke of Kyiv in 11th century.
Ruthenian nobility such as Ostrogsky, Wiśniowiecki, Czartoryski were backbone of ruling elite, occupying the highest positions in state, going as high as King/Grand Duke’s position itself in later periods (see Michał Korybut Wiśniowiecki). Of course, over time most of these families gradually drifted towards dominant ethnicity in the state, in this case Polish, which dominated the Commonwealth after unx of Lublin was signed and GDL itself started to lose its autonomy.
Now, why Lithuanians couldn’t assimilate conquered territories?
First and foremost, Grand Duchy of Lithuania wasn’t really that Lithuanian except in the name. According to modern estimates, by the time it finished expansion to former Rus’ lands, ethnic Lithuanians were only about 10–14% of total population: Demographics of Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Of course, being such a small portion of total population it was hard if not impossible for ethnic Lithuanians to assimilate much larger Ruthenian population. Since importance of nation-building wasn’t understood back then, no one cared about system assimilation policy. In contrary, GDL was using “keep the old way, don’t introduce new” when integrating former Rus’ territories and this was one of the key success factors of this integration process.
Second factor is the distance one has to go to be assimilated. Language plays central role here. An Ukrainian or Belarusian person understands significant part of Polish or Russian text even without learning it before. That’s not the case with Lithuanian. Lithuanian language is not Slavic, it is Baltic. Both groups are distantly related, but understanding and speaking Lithuanian isn’t easy for speakers of most of slavic languages. As a Ukrainian I can’t really understand Lithuanian: it is almost completely foreign for me.
Map of Lexical Distance between European languages. Lithuanian is quite far from most of Slavic languages. At the same time Polish and Ruthenian (which eventually split into Ukrainian and Belarusian) are closely related. This map also hints that Hungarian language is in similar position as well.
Perhaps even more important element of medi identity was religion and here Lithuanians had a roadblock as well. Despite ruling dynasty converting to Christianity as early as middle of 13th century, most of Lithuanians were practicing local polytheistic religion as long as till the end of 14th century. This of course wasn’t helpful as well, especially that Christians were rather hostile towards pagan religions.
Finally, when it comes to the legacy of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, one has to understand that it is not only modern Lithuania who has some claim for it. In fact, one of the central elements of Belarusian historiography, used by opposition to current pro-Russian government is that Belarus formed its own identity under the rule of Grand Duchy of Lithuania, played important if not central role in its life during 14–16 century and has to trace its origins back to that period. It is not a coincidence that flag used by Belarusian opposition resembles that of GDL:
GDL Royal Banner, circa 16th century
Flag of Belarus in 1918 and 1991–1995
Antigovernmental Protests in Belarus, 2021

我们现代人倾向于在现代国家和历史上的国家之间打上平等的标签,这些国家有着相似的名字,占据着有点类似的领土。然而,事实上大多数现代国家都是民族国家,这一概念主要是在19世纪发展起来的。可以肯定的是,现代立陶宛和中世纪的立陶宛大公国(GDL)之间有一定的连续性,现代匈牙利和中世纪的匈牙利王国之间也有一定的连续性,不谈丹麦王国,它自15世纪左右以来至今仍然由同一个皇室王朝统治。但这种连续性不应该被高估。中世纪的国家不是国家:它们是一种专门从事治理、战争、外交和征税的家族企业,控制着某些领土,并得到生活在这些领土上的精英的支持。
在某些情况下,这些领土上居住着相当单一的民族,说着同样的语言,正因为如此,他们与他们的后代--民族国家--非常相似。但在其他情况下,王室和他们最亲密的盟友代表着来自较小领土的相对较小的民族,他们逐渐设法扩大对邻近民族的影响,但无法影响生活在那里的人们在语言和身份上的重大变化。中世纪的立陶宛和匈牙利都是这样的例子。我的回答将主要涉及立陶宛的情况,因为我对它的了解比对匈牙利更多。
中世纪的立陶宛大公国(GDL)建立在被蒙古人入侵摧毁的基辅罗斯的灰烬上。由于基本上没有受到蒙古人的影响,立陶宛大公国完全有能力迅速填补罗斯的土地上在被摧残之后形成的权力真空。在很短的时间内,吉迪明王朝将其领土从现代立陶宛的领土扩展到了现在的白俄罗斯和乌克兰的大部分地区。当然,这些领土的居民仍然是鲁塞尼亚人,他们在这个东欧的新大帝国中占多数。对于当时生活在那里的大多数人来说,将权力移交给这个叫立陶宛的国家并不是什么大事:他们仍然过着以前的生活,说着同样的语言,信奉同样的宗教,有时甚至向同一个地方领主交税,尽管后者会将其中的一部分转给其他人。



(立陶宛大公国最大控制范围。灰色的西北部领土是立陶宛族的领土,它的扩张都是从那里开始的。绿色领土主要是基辅罗斯的旧地,由鲁塞尼亚人居住。)
尽管由立陶宛王室统治,但这个国家使用鲁塞尼亚语作为官方语言之一,同时还有立陶宛语和波兰语。立陶宛的法规(国家的法典)是用包括鲁塞尼亚语在内的三种语言编写的。事实上,文本本身在很大程度上是基于Rus'ka Pravda--基辅罗斯的中世纪法典,由基辅大公Yaroslav the Wise在11世纪首次撰写。
鲁西尼亚贵族,如奥斯特罗格斯基、维希诺维茨基、查尔托利斯基是统治精英的骨干,占据着国家的最高位置,在后期甚至高达国王/大公的位置(见米哈乌-科里布-维希诺维茨基)。当然,随着时间的推移,这些家族中的大多数逐渐向国家的主导民族靠拢,在这种情况下,波兰人在《卢布林联盟》签署后主导了联邦,GDL本身也开始失去自治权。
现在有一个问题:为什么立陶宛人不能同化被征服的领土?
首先,立陶宛大公国除了名字之外,并没有真正意义上的立陶宛人。根据现代估计,当它完成对前罗斯土地的扩张时,立陶宛族人只占总人口的10-14%左右。当然,作为总人口的一小部分,立陶宛人很难甚至不可能同化更大的鲁西尼亚人。由于当时还不了解国家建设的重要性,没有人关心系统的同化政策。相反,GDL在整合前罗斯的领土时采用了"保持旧的,不引入新的"的方式,而这也是这个整合过程的关键成功因素之一。
第二个因素是一个人被同化所需要走多远。语言在这里起着核心作用。一个乌克兰人或白俄罗斯人即使没有学过波兰语或俄语,也能理解其大部分内容。而立陶宛语则不是这样。立陶宛语不是斯拉夫语,它是波罗的海语。这两个群体的关系很远,对于大多数斯拉夫语言的使用者来说,理解和说立陶宛语并不容易。作为一个乌克兰人,我无法真正理解立陶宛语:它对我来说几乎是完全陌生的。



(欧洲语言之间的语族距离地图。立陶宛语与大多数斯拉夫语言的距离相当远。同时,波兰语和鲁塞尼亚语(最终分裂为乌克兰语和白俄罗斯语)是密切相关的。这张地图还暗示,匈牙利语也处于类似的位置。)
也许在中世纪身份认同的更看重的因素是宗教,但是在这里立陶宛人也遇到了障碍。因为尽管统治王朝早在13世纪中期就皈依了基督教,但大多数立陶宛人一直到14世纪末都在信奉当地的多神教。这对于同化当然也是无济于事的,尤其是基督徒对异教相当敌视。
最后,在谈到立陶宛大公国的遗产时,我们必须明白,不仅仅是现代立陶宛对其有一些索求。事实上,白俄罗斯历史学的核心内容之一,即白俄罗斯在立陶宛大公国的统治下形成了自己的身份,并且在14-16世纪的立陶宛大公国的生活中发挥了重要的甚至是核心的作用,并且必须追溯到那个时期。白俄罗斯反对派使用的旗帜与立陶宛大公国的旗帜相似,这并不是一个巧合。

Silvestras Guoga
Rhutenian nobility was never a backbone of the rulling elite in the grand Duchy of Lithuania. For a very simple reason - in order to participate in ruling the state one had to be a Catholic. Before the baptism of the country the unwritten rule of the Gediminids was - once you baptised as an Orthodox you were loosing the right to the throne. That is why Ruthenian lands were seen as provinces for cousins or former enemies to rule. Ethnic Lithuanian lands were considered a patrimony and a center. The claim that Belarus which didn’t exist back then as ethnicity and even a region played central role in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania is ridiculous.

在立陶宛大公国,鲁塞尼亚贵族从来不是统治精英的骨干。原因很简单--要想参与国家的统治,就必须是天主教徒。在国家接受洗礼之前,格迪米尼德家族的不成文规定是--一旦你接受了东正教的洗礼,你就失去了获得王位的权利。这就是为什么鲁塞尼亚的土地被看作是供表兄弟或前敌人统治的省份。立陶宛民族的土地被认为是一种遗产和中心。白俄罗斯在立陶宛大公国中作为民族甚至地区都不存在,你却声称其在立陶宛大公国中发挥着核心作用,这是荒谬的。

Lavoy Joe
, studies Science & History at St. Mary's Catholic High School (2023)
Lithuania and Hungary were enormous empires in the Middle Ages.
Nowadays Lithuania’s territory is only 65,300 sq km, and Hungary covers an area of only 93,030 sq km.
The Kingdom of Hungary was invaded and occupied by the Ottoman Empire in the 16th century. Greater Hungary survived as part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire until its collapse 1918. The multiethnic state broke up and Hungary’s territory was limited to the ethnic Magyar areas.
The Grand Duchy of Lithuania lost vast territories to Muscovy / Russia during the 16th century. Then it joined Poland to form the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, which survived until its partition between Russia, Prussia, and Austria in 1795. Lithuania reemerged after the collapse of the Russian and German empires in 1918.

立陶宛和匈牙利在中世纪时是巨大的帝国。
现在立陶宛的领土只有65,300平方公里,而匈牙利的面积只有93,030平方公里。
匈牙利王国在16世纪被奥斯曼帝国入侵并占领。大匈牙利作为奥匈帝国的一部分一直生存到1918年帝国崩溃。这个多民族的国家解体了,现在匈牙利的领土仅限于马扎尔族地区。
立陶宛大公国在16世纪失去了大片领土给莫斯科/俄罗斯。然后,它加入了波兰,形成了波兰-立陶宛联邦,该联邦一直存续到1795年被俄罗斯、普鲁士和奥地利瓜分。立陶宛在1918年俄罗斯和德意志帝国瓦解后重新崛起。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Ákos Németh
A bit add-on: “and Hungary’s territory was limited to 60% of the ethnic Magyar areas”

补充一点:"匈牙利的领土被限制在60%的马扎尔族地区"

Marek Mošať
you forgot to mention, that most of the other territories with Hungarians (not all) were populated also by other nationalities. But, ofcourse, this little detail is inconvenient for your ideology.

你忘了说,其他大部分有匈牙利人的领土(不是全部)也有其他民族的人居住。但是,当然,这个小细节对你持有的意识形态来说很不爽。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Mitch Ribberson
Like pretty much every single territory out there. What really matters is percentage of that ethnic group and if that makes them majority.

就像那里的几乎每一个地区一样。真正重要的是该族裔群体的百分比,以及这是否使他们成为多数。

Genghis Khan
An interesting aside to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth: all legislation had to be UNANIMOUS to become law. Think about that for a second. The government couldn’t get anything done because the legislature could never unanimously agree on anything.

关于波兰-立陶宛联邦的一个有趣的插曲:所有的立法都必须是所有贵族一致同意才能成为法律。想一想这一点吧。政府无法完成任何事情,因为立法机构永远无法就任何事情达成一致意见。

Julius Geonczeol
Hungary was broken up by the entente after 1919 because they could not brake the Hungarians during ww1. After the armictice at Padua they simply armed bands of chechs Serbs and rumanians to enter Hungary against the existing armistice terms. No wonder that Putin says that any agreement with the west is no more valuable and worthless even the paper that is written on.

匈牙利在1919年后被协约国拆散,因为他们在一战期间无法阻止匈牙利人。在帕多瓦停战后,他们只是简单地武装了捷克人、塞尔维亚人和罗马尼亚人的队伍,违反现有的停战条款进入匈牙利。难怪普京说,与西方的任何协议都没有价值,甚至连写在上面的纸都没有价值。

Juan Felipe Motta
Are you serious? The Austro-Hungarian army was in tatters by late 1918, there was nothing the Hungarian half could have done to stem the tide. Also, by your logic bands of armed rabble from Serbia and Romania were able what (by your own admission) the full might of the Entente armies couldn't, give me a break.

你是认真的吗?奥匈帝国的军队在1918年底就已经支离破碎了,匈牙利的一半军队根本无法阻止这种趋势。另外,按照你的逻辑,塞尔维亚和罗马尼亚的武装乌合之众能够做到(你自己也承认)协约国军队的全部力量都做不到的事情,让我笑一下。

收藏译文