欧盟圈讨论:欧洲各国不同城市/地区间的时尚差距有多大?社交媒体和网购在其中起到了什么作用?
2022-01-12 yzy86 6582
正文翻译


(图为意大利人经典着装)
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In America there can be significant geographic 'gaps' when it comes to people, particularly young people, keeping up with the latest styles. If you watch the movie 'Napoleon Dynamite', the young people are 10 to 15 years behind the times when it comes to fashion, and they have absolutely no clue. People from that part of the country (Idaho, Montana, etc.) have told me it's exactly like that. Or at least it was in the 1990s when the movie was made. It's gotten a lot better (but not completely so) in recent years thanks to the internet.

(在意美国人)在美国,说到人们(特别是年轻人)追赶最新风潮,在不同地域间可能会存在明显的 “差距”。如果你看过电影《大人物拿破仑》,这帮子年轻人在时尚方面落后于时代10到15年,他们在这方面完全没有概念。来自那些地区(爱达荷州、蒙大拿州等)的人告诉我,情况正是如此。至少,在这部电影拍出来的时候(译注:本片完成于2004年),那里还停留在二十世纪九十年代。近年来,多亏了互联网,情况已经大为改善了(但也不完全是如此)。

I'm from Los Angeles. I moved to Las Vegas when I was in my 20s and after a couple weeks I thought "why does it feel like it's five years ago?" I then realized it was because of how young people were dressed. They were five years 'behind' L.A., and Las Vegas isn't some little country town! I could go on, but I hope you guys get the idea.

我是洛杉矶人。二十多岁的时候搬到了拉斯维加斯,到那里两周后我产生了一种感觉,“为什么这里给人的感觉还停留在五年以前?”后来我想通了,这是因为年轻人穿着打扮的方式。他们“落后”了洛杉矶人五年,而拉斯维加斯可不是什么小城小镇!我还可以继续说下去,但我希望各位能明白我的意思。


What about in your country? There doesn't seem to be such a geographic gap here in Italy, as far as I can tell. But then I'm not exactly the New York Times fashion critic.

在你们的国家又是什么情况呢?在意大利这里,以我的觉察,貌似各地区之间的差距并不大。不过嘛,我也不是什么《纽约时报》的时尚评论家。

评论翻译
lucapal1
I don't think it's so common as it used to be here.
Probably the Internet...sites like Instagram etc.. combined with even more 'global' distribution networks, and online shopping... people who are interested in fashions can usually get what they want, whether they live in a village in Calabria or in Milan.
I think what is'trendy' here in Sicily is pretty similar to what brands are trendy in other parts of Italy.

(意)我觉得在我们这里,这种现象不像以前那么普遍了。
可能是因为互联网...Instagram这类网站...外加更“全球化”的分销网络,以及网购...对时尚感兴趣的人通常都能得到他们想要的东西,无论他们是住在卡拉布里亚的一个村还是住在米兰。
我感觉我们西西里岛上的“潮品”,和意大利其他地区的潮流品牌是极为相似的。
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And also, this is Italy. Between you and the French, the rest of us look like a bunch of schlubs. My wife still criticizes every piece of clothing I buy on my own. My closet is full of shirts she hates. She could write a paragraph about each one of them, I swear.

(回,楼主)而且,这可是意大利。你们和法国人是第一集团,而我们其他国家的人看着就像一群粗鄙之徒。我老婆到现在都会批判我自己买的每一件衣服。我的衣柜里塞满了被她讨厌的衬衫。我可以发誓,每件衣服她都能写出一个段子。

People do tend to take quite a lot of care about what they look like here!
I think for men especially it is generally very conventional though.People don't take a lot of risks.
About 80% of the male population in Palermo, certainly those older than school age, seem to wear very similar black clothes in winter, for example ;-)

(回,意)在我们这里,人们确实极为在意自己的外在!
我认为,男人尤甚,但一般都很遵循传统。但人们不会冒很大的风险。
比方说在巴勒莫,大约80%的男性(当然了,指的是那些超过学龄的人),一到冬天貌似都会穿非常相似的黑衣。

Yeah, Italians play it safe with classic colors and cuts, but still manage to look great. The French are a little more daring. My wife agrees with this impression of mine.
Also, when I first came over here, I was at an H&M or an OVS or something, and I was waiting for a dressing room. "God" I said to myself, "whoever's in there is taking forever. It must be a chick!" Finally the door opened... and it was a guy. He must have been trying on 8 or 9 different pairs of jeans until he found the pair that fit perfectly. He was a hairy macho looking guy, too.
If he was American he would've tried on one or two pairs and then said "well, the bottoms don't drag on the ground, and they don't crush my balls. Time to get outta here!"

(回,楼主)是的,意大利人打的是安全牌,他们会选用经典的颜色和剪裁,但还是能带给别人很棒的观感。法国人更大胆一些。我的妻子也同意我的这种印象。
我第一次来到意大利时,有次在H&M还是OVS之类的店里等着进更衣室。“天哪”,我对自己说,“不管里面是谁,占用的时间也太长了吧。一定是个小妞!” 最后门开了...是个男人。他肯定是试穿了8或9条不同的牛仔裤,直到他找到最合适的那条。而他也是一个体毛发达、男人味十足的家伙。
如果他是美国人,他可能只会试穿一两条,然后说:“好吧,这裤脚不会拖在地上,这裤裆也不至于挤坏我的蛋蛋。是时候结账走人了!"

Keep in mind that northeasterns have a tradition in textile factories, famous fashion chains and shoes

(回,意)你们要记住,东北地区的人在纺织厂、知名时装连锁店和鞋子方面是有传统的。

That said people in Milan are one league above everywhere else in Italy, it's just on point, living in Milan and going to Turin I felt everyone dressed well but lacking that 1% that makes you look like an Instagrammer or actor, in Rome it's similar, and more people dress very relaxed, in Naples it's even more casual but they have every small local shop that sells the best stuff, the best coats, the best suits
Also in Milan everyone dresses in greys during winter

(回,意)即便如此,米兰人的层次比意大利其他地区的人都要高上一档,这一点是无误的,我住在米兰,然后去了都灵,感觉每个人都穿得很得像样,但就是少了那能让你看着像个Instagram达人或是演员的1%,罗马的情况也差不多,但穿得很休闲的人更多,而在那不勒斯,就更随意了,但他们那里的每一个当地小店,卖的都是最好的东西,最好的大衣,最好的西装。
而且在米兰,每个人在冬天都会穿灰色的衣服。

Pedarogue
As far as I know, there isn't any.
We are Europe's fashion gap.

(德)据我所知,在我们德国内部是不存在任何差距的。
我们整个德国都在给欧洲时尚拖后腿。

Luckily. Your sandals look always high quality

(回,意)幸运的是,你们的凉鞋看上去品质总是很高。

With socks

(回)他们是和袜子一起穿的;)

I've always felt like there is quite a big difference between east and west Germany when it comes to fashion.

(回,德)在时尚方面,我总感觉东德和西德之间存在很大的差异。

I think so too, my in laws live in rural Saxony and it feels lime a different world (and sadly not a very fashionable one).

(回,奥地利)我也这么觉得,我的岳父岳母住在萨克森州的乡村,那里给人的感觉就像是另一个世界(可惜不是个很时尚的世界)。

They captured the essence of weird, and distilled it into uncool. And sold it in clothing stores.

(回)他们抓住了怪异的本质,将其提炼为不酷。然后就拿去服装店里售卖了。

German fashion sense is like their humor

(回,德)德国人的时尚感,有如他们的幽默感。

Honestly, Austrians or Scandinavians don't dress much different. Maybe it's a Germanic thing...

(回)说实话,奥地利人和斯堪的纳维亚人的穿着打扮大差不差。也许这就是日耳曼人的共性…

Stockholm looks like a h&m catalogue.
Berlin looks like - I can't even categorise it.

(回,德)斯德哥尔摩看起来就像是H&M的商品目录。
而柏林看起来…我甚至都无法给他们归类。
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Berlin makes you feel bad for dressing "average".

(回,美)如果你在柏林穿得很“普通”,是会产生内疚感的。

I dress average, which is too fancy for Berlin, but when I visit Munich I look like a slob.

(回,德)我的打扮就很普通,可是在柏林的标准中,我这都属于时髦过头了,不过,我造访慕尼黑的时候,那边的环境把我衬托得像个懒汉。
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Danish dress as one would imagine Danish people dress. Dutch dress as one would Dutch people dress. Germans dress as one would imagine nobody would dress.

(回)丹麦人的穿着,符合人们想象中的丹麦人模样。荷兰人的穿着,也符合人们想象中的荷兰人模样。而德国人的穿着…在人们眼中就没人会这么穿。

Not true. In Berlin, it looks like straight out of r/peopleofwalmart if you use public transportation. In München or Düsseldorf, even the homeless seem to wear posh brands.

(回)不属实。如果你在柏林搭乘公共交通工具,那些乘客简直就像是刚从沃尔玛里走出来的沃尔玛星人。而在慕尼黑或杜塞尔多夫,貌似连无家可归者穿的都是很光鲜的品牌。

InspectorHornswaggle
Stockholm in winter looks like a goth catelogue, with everyone in black. Indeed those who dare to wear colours are shunned from the city through piercing glances and mutterings.

(瑞典)冬天的斯德哥尔摩,看着就像是哥特装大荟萃,每个人都一身黑衣。事实就是,那些敢于穿五颜六色衣服的人会被这座城市隔绝,方式就是对方投来的扎心目光和各种小声嘀咕。

PeterPawlettsBaby
It used to be, but with the advent of the internet, I think it's largely passed here.
Certainly in the 80s, Aberdonians were much quicker to adopt the casuals subculture than other cities.
but as fashion often comes from subcultures rather than fancy people, that doesn't necessarily mean that Edinburgh was always first with the trends.
Glasgow had a bigger punk scene, but skinheads took harder and lasted longer in Edinburgh, for example.

(苏格兰)以前是这样,但我认为,随着互联网的出现,这种现象很大程度上已经消失了。
当然了,八十年代的时候,阿伯丁人接受休闲装亚文化的速度远比其他城市快。
但因为时尚往往都发端于各种亚文化,而非那些衣着花俏的人群,所以爱丁堡未必总是第一个掌握了潮流的。
比如说,格拉斯哥的朋克圈子规模就更大,但爱丁堡的光头党就更强势,存在时间也更长。

Captain_Grammaticus
Yes... There's rural vs. urban fashion, the rural areas are of course a bit slower. But it often seemed to me as if the Romands (French speakers) are always a bit more fashionable than the Deutschschweizer.
Maybe it has also to do with the background of where the larger part of immigrants are from. The French areas are generally a bit more international and have other subcultures than the German areas. I've never seen a punk in the Romandie, for example; hip-hop is much more prominent there, I think.

(瑞士)是的...农村和城市的时尚确实存在鸿沟,农村地区的时尚感当然会滞后一些。但在我看来,似乎罗曼地人(即法语区人)总是比德裔的瑞士人更时髦一些。
也许这也和大部分移民的母国有关。法语区通常要比德语区更国际化一些,那里存在的亚文化也不同于德语区。比如,我从未在法语区见过朋克青年,我感觉,嘻哈文化在那里更为突出。

On average you’re probably right. However, thanks to the internet and Switzerland’s small size you get some fashionable rural people. Oh, and there are many people in urban areas that simply don’t care.

(回,瑞士)通常而言,你可能是对的。不过,多亏了互联网和瑞士国土的狭小,你也会发现穿得很潮的农村人。哦对了,还有很多城市人压根儿就不在乎。
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This and I also see some general fashion types that you find in our bigger cities. As I see it, Zurich is very much on the newest trend and everyone is dressed to the top, meanwhile in Berne you see more of the alternative "Ökostyle" running around and in Lucerne you have like the super basic Jeans-Shirt kind of fashion. Not judging, just my casual observation from hopping around these cities and areas for years now.

(回,瑞士)说对了,我也见过一些通行的时尚类型,是你可以在我们的大城市中找到的。在我看来,苏黎世非常热衷于追赶最新的潮流,每个人都是盛装上阵,在伯尔尼,更多见的是另一种“原生态风”,到处都是他们,而在卢塞恩(即琉森),你会发现超朴素的牛仔裤+衬衫的时尚。我不是在评判谁,这只是我多年来在这些城市和地区游走时的非正式观察。

lol. And about ten years ago, maybe more, all the girls wore thick jackets with (fake-)fur-rimmed hoods and super skinny jeans.

(回,瑞士)呵呵,大约十年前,也许更早,所有的瑞士女孩都会穿配有毛(假的)边帽的厚夹克衫,外加超级紧身的牛仔裤。

incognitomus
The further north you go the more lumberjack-ish the fashion gets. Unless you're a Sámi. Very generic and hardly any colour. Unless you're a Sámi. Hoodies, t-shirts, and jeans are very common. Band shirts if you're a metal head. Then there's Helsinki...

(芬兰)在时尚方面,越往北走,伐木工人风就越重。除非你是萨米人(即拉普兰人)。没什么个性,几乎没有任何颜色。连帽卫衣、T恤衫和牛仔裤都很常见。如果你是重金属迷,就会穿印有乐队图样的T恤。而赫尔辛基的画风是这样的:




phoenixchimera
It exists everywhere, even in Italy and France, but it's not so much location IME but far more to do with class/wealth, especially since the explosion of social media in the last 10 years. The big skews aside from that are conservative vs. fashion-forward, and those have to do with industry and status more so than money (i.e. a banker has more money than someone in marketing or media, but the latter will dress more fashionably). Also, in Italy and in France you're looking at the homes of global fashion capitals. You can't compare them to ANY other country, the baseline standard of dress is much higher in both (same with food standards, adding Spain to that category too).
Personally, In my rural hometown, I see the same type of stuff that I'd see in the major cities, though the quality is less.

(在美国的欧洲人)这种现象随处可见,连意大利和法国也是如此,但以我的经验,这和地点关系不大,却和阶级/财富关系重大,在过去十年社交媒体爆发式成长的情况下就更是如此了。除此以外,最大的曲解是,认为这是保守与前卫的角力,但这些势必和行业、地位有关,而和金钱关系不大(例如,银行家比营销/媒体行业的人有钱,但后者的穿着更时髦)。此外,在意大利和法国,这俩可是全球时尚之都的发祥地,你没法把它们拿去和其他任何国家作比较,这两国的着装基准要高得多(对美食的标准也是如此,可以把西班牙也加入这个门类)。
就我个人而言,我的家乡在农村,我能看到和大城市相同类型的衣服,尽管品质较差。

Another big reason for this is that Europeans generally overall are far less consumerist than Americans, and even with fast fashion, buy less clothing of generally higher quality standards.

还有一个重要原因,总的来说欧洲人的消费主义倾向远没有美国人严重,即便是快时尚,他们也会买数量更少但质量普遍更高的衣服。

AdligerAdler
I'm by no means an expert on this, but I think there are 3 tiers:

(德)我绝不是这方面的专家,但我觉得可以分为三个圈层:
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Tier 1: Rural areas and smaller cities (many people don't follow the latest fashion trends, but overall most people are still dressed modernly)
Tier 2: Larger cities (people tend to follow the latest fashion trends more aggressively)
Tier 3: Sodom and Gom... err I mean Berlin (many people ascended beyond fashionable and reached exotic level)

第一层:农村地区和小城市(很多人不会追随最新的时尚潮流,但总的来说,大多数人的穿着还是很有现代感的)。
第二层:较大的城市(人们往往会更亦步亦趋地追随最新的时尚潮流)。
第三层:(遭天谴的)索多玛和蛾摩拉......呃,我指的是柏林(有很多人超越了时尚,达到了光怪陆离的水平)。

The most exotic person in my town is probably a guy who attached a plush bunny on his shoulder. It just sits there and he carries it with him everywhere he goes.

我这个镇上最光怪陆离的人,可能是那个在肩上系着一只长毛绒兔子的人。它就蹲坐在那里,他去任何地方都会带着它。

zootedwhisperer
Hell ya. And i have not even been to many places in my country. But for reference, I live very very close to London, 30 minutes by train. But there is a very clear noticable diference between people in my area, and in London.

(英格兰)那必须是啊。而我甚至都没有去过我们国家的很多地方。但作为参考,我住的地方紧挨着伦敦,坐火车30分钟就到。但我这个地区的人和伦敦人,在穿着上存在显而易见的差别。

Captain_365
Many people say that fashion trends last longer in rural areas than in the cities, which isn't really surprising.
Having said that though, Ireland must be one of the least Stylish/Fashionable countries (in terms of clothes) in Western Europe. You will see loads of people wearing Tracksuits and other sporting gear, even when they're not exercising.
You also have loads of people with bad haircuts and fake tan, although the former is much more common with men and the latter with women.

(爱尔兰)很多人说,时尚潮流在农村地区的持续时间会比城市长,这并不奇怪。
尽管如此,爱尔兰想必是西欧最不时尚/最没有格调的国家之一了(就着装而言)。你会看到大量的人穿着运动套装和其他运动装备,尽管他们并没有在锻炼。
还有很多人留着糟糕的发型,抹着美黑霜,尽管前者在男性中更普遍,后者在女性中更普遍。

Some years ago I was living for work in a French city. I then flew to Dublin for a work-related conference -- the contrast in how people dressed was, shall I say, striking. Downtown Dublin felt like one of the rougher suburbs of my hometown Helsinki.
(As a habitual poor dresser I felt incredibly comfortable in Dublin.)

(回,芬兰)几年前,我因为工作需要在法国的一个城市住过。然后我飞到都柏林参加一个和工作有关的会议,两地人着装形成的对比可以说是触目惊心。都柏林市中心给人的感觉,就像是我家乡赫尔辛基的某个草莽的郊区。
(作为一个衣品一贯很差的人,我在都柏林超级自在)

Not to mention that our genes are pretty shit as well. We're an ugly fucking bunch

(回,爱尔兰)更不用说我们的基因也很差劲了。我们就TMD是一群丑八怪。

The Polish immigrants are trying to improve that.

(回,德)波兰移民正试图改良这一部分。

Hey man, the accent will still get you laid in America. That's actually true!

(回,楼主)这位哥们,在美国,你们的口音还是能帮助你们性福的。还真就是这么回事!

the_pianist91
There are clearly differences where people in some more urban places will have more exclusive brands and more “exotic” taste. The general rule of Norway is to not stick out, but in the cities, particularly in Oslo and it’s surroundings, people feel free to exactly stick out more. In the age of Internet shopping, social media and athleisure many gaps are more closed. Still people will dress differently from borough to borough, countryside to cities and way of life. You’ll still find more preppy guys in wealthier places, elegant ladies in the more established neighbourhoods in the capital, more hypebeasts and hipsters among the more trendy circles, and more workers clothes with reflective colours around the clock in the outbacks.

(挪)存在显著的差异,都市区的人身上会出现更多的独家品牌,品味上也更倾向于“异国风”。挪威人着装的通行规则是泯然众人,但在城市里,特别是在奥斯陆及其周边地区,人们是很愿意突出自己的。在这个网络购物、社交媒体和运动休闲风的时代,很多差距都被弥合了。但是,人们的穿着在不同的区之间,乡村和城市之间,以及不同的生活方式之间,还是会有所不同。你还是能在更富裕的区域发现更多学院派的着装,在首都的成熟社区中会发现更多优雅的女士,在更追随潮流的圈子里有更多的潮人和嬉皮士,而在内陆地区,会发现更多带有反光色的工人制服,而且是全天候的。

Limesnlemons
I was driving through one of Austria‘s most rural border regions in September (that’s the „left behind areas“ here) and out of nowhere there was a bus station with a couple of teens hanging out there and everyone looked like a random tiktok brat.
I think influencer culture and online shopping did away with fashion gaps largely. At least for everyone under ~40.

(奥地利)九月时,我开车穿越了奥地利最偏乡的边境地区之一(也就是我们这里的“落后地区”),然后我发现那里凭空冒出了一个公共汽车站,有几个青少年在那里欢闹,他们每个人看着都像是抖音里的那种小屁孩。
我认为影响力文化和网购在很大程度上弥合了时尚的差距。至少对所有四十岁以下的人来说是这样。

xorgol
The real fashion gap is between the engineering department and the rest of the country.

(意)真正的时尚差距,存在于工程系和这个国家的其他院系之间。

At my uni it's CS (especially Games Engineering) vs Economics departments

(回,德+以)在我的大学,则存在于计算机系(特别是游戏工程)与经济系之间。

WhoReplyToMeWillDie
The "fashion gap" exists only among the old people here , in the small inland towns some few aged women and men (80-90 years old) still dress the traditional clothes, this does not apply to young and middle-aged people.

(撒丁岛)所谓的“时尚差距”只存在于我们这里的老年群体中,在内陆的小镇,有一些年事很高的男女(80到90岁)穿的仍然是传统服装,但这不适用于年轻人和中年人。

I'm recalling this Prada ad where gorgeous young models are hanging around with old people who are dressed like they're at a funeral in the 1950s, and all us Americans are like "oooooh, ahhhhhhh, it's so Italian!" We're suckers for that kind of stuff.

(回,楼主)让我想起了Prada的那个广告,俏丽的年轻模特们和那些穿得像是在五十年代参加葬礼的老年人厮混在一起,而我们美国人全都会说:“啊啊啊啊,哇哇哇哇,这也太意大利了吧!” 这类东西我们是无法抗拒的。

Yes, my father refuses to wear sweatsuits (felpe)

(回,意)是的,我父亲拒绝穿运动服

datxexu
In the past the gap was bigger between rural and urban, in fact in Spain international trends came quite late, maybe like 5 years late.
But nowadays there's a Zara or H&M even in the smallest town. Rural young people will dress more or less the same as rural young people. "Fast fashion" is king in Spain.

(西班牙)过去,农村和城市间的差距比现在大,事实是,在西班牙,国际潮流会姗姗来迟,大概会晚五年左右。
但现如今,哪怕是最小的城镇里也有Zara或H&M。乡村的年轻人和城里的年轻人,穿着都差不了多少。在西班牙,“快时尚”是称王的。

stormos
Fashion is a bit different even between southern and northern outskirts of Moscow. But it is not about being ahead or behind. Just different things from the same Zara's collection

(俄)就连莫斯科的南郊和北郊,时尚也稍有不同。但并不存在谁领先谁落后。只是在Zara的同一套时装系列里卖的东西有所不同。

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