如果纳粹德国从未输掉战争,世界会是什么样子?(二)
2022-10-28 翻译熊 3845
正文翻译

What would the world be like if Nazi Germany had never lost the war?

如果纳粹德国从未输掉战争,世界会是什么样子?

评论翻译
MIchael Keuntje
Maybe you didn’t study this … enough. So called concentration camps have been extermination camps really. This wouldn’t have ended to soon. Also as Slavik peoples were considered inferior the Eastern campaigns were invasions meant to conquer and either depopulate or enslave. I don’t see how your metaphor of ripples in history like in a lake fits in here. A cultural dogma of aggression and dominance can be long lasting - consider the Roman empire although I wouldn’t claim to know anything near to enough of similarities. Still Nazi Germany explicitly took ancient Rome as its natural inheritance. Not entirely far fetched as the preceding Reich of almost 1.000 years of existance had been officially named Roman Empire of German decent (second Roman empire making Nazi Germany the Third Reich following their proponents).

也许你还没好好研究这个平行世界。所谓的集中营实际上是灭绝集中营。这事不会这么快就结束的。此外,由于斯拉夫民族被认为是低人一等的,东方的战役是旨在征服和减少人口或奴役的入侵。我不明白你把历史上的涟漪比喻成湖泊里的涟漪算怎么回事。
侵略和统治的文化教条可以持续很长时间——以罗马帝国为例,尽管我不会声称自己知道任何类似的东西。纳粹德国仍然明确地将古罗马作为自己的自然遗产。这并不完全是牵强附会,因为前一个存在了近1000年的帝国已经被正式命名为德意志罗马帝国(第二个是罗马帝国,使纳粹德国在其支持者之后成为第三帝国)。虽然它只持续了13年,但它被宣布为千年帝国。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


While it lasted only 13 years it was proclaimed Reich of thousand years. While a lot of marketing and buzz and ingenious propaganda at work that was luckily not delivered in the end (final victory “Endsieg” did not include anything like a powerful USA) I think it is quite remarkable that innovativeness in technology was still huge during fascist times in Germany. A lot related to military technology but not all. Would there have been a Steve Jobs of computer and entertainment tech? Who knows. A victory of any kind - even limited to Eurasia ‘only’ would one way or another have encluded enslaving the Slavik and the Chinese peoples. No big difference? You got to be kidding!

幸运的是,大量的营销和巧妙的宣传最终都没有实现(最终的胜利没有包括强大的美国)。我认为,在法西斯时期的德国,技术创新仍然是巨大的,这是非常值得注意的。很多都和军事技术有关,但不是全部。会出现电脑和娱乐科技界的史蒂夫·乔布斯吗? 谁知道呢。任何形式的胜利,即使只局限于欧亚大陆,也会以某种方式包括奴役斯拉夫人和中国人。
没有什么不同?你在开玩笑吧!

Alex Lozovskiy
I can’t agree more. It’s like the author totally ignores the fact that Germans had specific plans for eradication of USSR population.

我完全同意。就好像作者完全忽略了德国人有消灭苏联人口的具体计划这一事实。

Kenneth Reese
For am historian working at the National Archives he seems to hold a disturbingly high opinion of the Nazis.

作为一名在国家档案馆工作的历史学家,他似乎对纳粹有着令人不安的高度评价。

Ron Tipton
I think the premise is flawed because the USA still had the atom bombs and Germany did not. While dropping one on Berlin would have been a much bigger deal than the Japanese bombs, the impact still would have devastated Germany, taking out many top commanders/planners if not Hitler himself. It also would have hurt the German industrial production. I like the answer overall, but have an issue with the question itself.

我认为这个前提是有缺陷的,因为美国仍然拥有原子弹,而德国没有。虽然在柏林投一枚核弹比日本的炸弹要大得多,但其影响仍然会摧毁德国,杀死许多最高指挥官/规划者,如果不是希特勒本人的话。
它还会损害德国的工业生产。总体上我喜欢这个答案,但对问题本身有疑问。

Caleb Atchison
I'm going to tell you how they won the war first, then what the world would look like. Here's this alternate history scenario. Close your eyes and open them. This is history for as long as you are reading this. Go:
(if you do not want the backstory, then please skip to where emboldened and labeled.)
Edit: Originally this answer had a section dedicated to a successful Operation sea lion. After several complaints at the impossibility of such an event, even in an alternate history scenario, I will add another, more plausible, but I'm sure will create backlash, scenario to add on that would result in the possibility of operation sea lion.
Here's an Italian solution to your British problem.
Upon Italian entry into World War 2, which Mussolini joined earlier than he might have, smelling possible weakness in the allies; Mussolini chose generals that had proven their ability to lead men, especially the Italians, with extremely high morale. Hitler had informed Mussolini of his intentions with the Allies early, this gave Mussolini time to place troops in Libya to combat French forces in Tunisia and British forces in Egypt. Alfredo Guzzoni would control Italian forces entering French Tunisia, Algeria, and the Mahgreb. Giovanni Messe would lead Italian forces into Egypt.

我要先告诉你他们是如何赢得战争的,然后再告诉你世界会变成什么样子。这是另一种历史场景。闭上眼睛再睁开。只要你读到这篇文章,这就是历史。来吧:
编辑:最初,这个答案有一个部分专门讲述了一次成功的海狮行动。在多次抱怨这样的事件不可能发生之后,我打算替换成另一个故事,使其显得更合理,但我肯定依然会引起反对。
当意大利加入第二次世界大战时,之所以不更早时候加入是因为墨索里尼此时嗅到了协约国可能存在的弱点。墨索里尼选择的将军都证明了他们有能力领导人们,尤其是意大利人,他们斗志昂扬。希特勒很早就将他与盟军的意图告知了墨索里尼,这使墨索里尼有时间在利比亚部署军队,以对抗在突尼斯的法国军队和在埃及的英国军队。阿弗雷多·古佐尼(Alfredo Guzzoni)将控制意大利军队进入法属突尼斯、阿尔及利亚和马格里布。乔瓦尼·梅西(Giovanni Messe)将率领意大利军队进入埃及。

Italy entered the war on the side of the Axis on April 1, 1940. Italian troops entered French Tunisia and Egypt.
With these two competent generals at the helm and Il Duce supplying modern weapons to his military several years prior, and the majority of Allied troops in Europe to fend off the Nazis, the Italians found north africa to have been an easy conquest, logistics being their primary issue, as they were taking ground faster than the supply trains could keep up.

1940年4月1号,意大利军队站在轴心国阵营进入法属突尼斯和埃及。
在这两位有能力的将军的指挥下,以及在几年前意大利领袖为他的军队提供的现代武器装备下,以及抵御纳粹的大部分盟军部队都部署在欧洲,意大利人发现北非是一个容易征服的地方,后勤是他们的主要问题,因为他们占领的速度比补给火车还要快。

The Italians also found conquest easier when they convinced local factions to support them by promising more autonomy than that they had under their ‘colonial oppressors’. Arabs and Berbers alike flocked to the Italian cause after that, proving themselves useful for dismantling British and French supply trains. Giovanni Messe wanted to cut the pulmonary artery of the British Empire in this region of the world, so they pushed for Suez Canal. Alan Cunningham ‘put up a hell of a fight’ according to Messe, all the way there, using guerilla tactics and the landscape to its full strategic advantage but he simply couldn't halt the Italian Army, only slow them down.
Cunningham was faced with a choice. Defend Suez to the last man, or get as many soldiers out as possible and essentially give it to the Italians. Cunningham opted for a compromise where troops were sent to Aden and the Raj to be redeployed while the most experienced would remain to hold off the Italians, and hopefully receive reinforcements.

意大利人还发现,当他们承诺比“殖民压迫者”时期更大的自治权,从而说服当地派系支持他们时,征服变得更容易了。在那之后,阿拉伯人和柏柏尔人都涌向了意大利的事业,证明了他们在拆除英法两国的补给火车方面是有用的。
乔瓦尼·梅西(Giovanni Messe)想切断大英帝国在世界这一地区的肺动脉,所以他们向苏伊士运河推进。根据梅西的说法,艾伦·坎宁安(Alan Cunningham)“进行了一场地狱般的战斗”,他一路利用游击战术和地形,充分发挥了战略优势,但他根本无法阻止意大利军队,只能拖慢他们。
坎宁安面临着一个选择。守住苏伊士,直到最后一个人,或者让尽可能多的士兵撤离把它交给意大利人。坎宁安选择了一种折衷方案,将部队派往亚丁和拉杰重新部署,而最有经验的部队将留下来抵御意大利人,并希望得到增援。

With North Africa firmly in Mussolini's grip, he now had access to the British oil present there, and the British Navy could no longer pass through the Mediterranean. Leaving British troops on the island of Malta stranded in an Italian sea. They would later be forced to surrender to Italian forces in October. Mussolini traded large amounts of Oil to Germany for access to Germany’s rich supply of metals such as Tungsten, Chromium, and Steel.
Now the British supply of crude oil had been severed and came in drips.
Edit: War Expanded and the British Fleet is in dire straits, dire enough that with the aid of the Italian fleet, Germany could make Operation Sea lion possible.

墨索里尼牢牢地控制着北非,他现在可以获得英国在那里的石油,英国海军再也不能通过地中海了。马耳他岛上的英国军队被困在意大利海域。10月,他们被迫向意大利军队投降。
墨索里尼向德国出售大量石油,以获得德国丰富的金属供应,如钨、铬和钢。
现在英国的原油供应被切断了,只能零星地供应。
编辑:战争扩大,英国舰队陷入困境,可怕到在意大利舰队的帮助下,德国可以使海狮行动成为可能。

August, 1940.
The Luftwaffe has been stopping short of the British mainland to assist the inferior German navy aided by the very powerful Italian navy weaken the British Fleet, that was already on it's reserves of oil and quickly running out trying to sustain such a large fleet. The Germans have been doing this since June, and have proved themselves a headache for the British Navy. But the attacks have been more intense and aggressive the closer it gets to September. Something is coming. The British know it. There was a speech that Churchill had planned for June, but he was advised to give his second draft as opposed to this one, but he knows it's time. That day, proclaiming to the whole of Britain over the radio, Churchill gives this speech in preparation of what's to come.

1940年8月
在强大的意大利海军的帮助下,德国空军一直在英国本土附近停留,以削弱英国舰队,英国舰队已经耗尽了石油储备,试图维持如此庞大的舰队。德国人自6月以来一直在这样做,并证明了他们自己是英国海军的大难题。
某事即将发生,英国人知道这一点。丘吉尔原计划在6月发表一篇演讲,但有人建议他拿出第二稿,而不是这一稿,但他知道是时候了。那一天,丘吉尔通过广播向全英国宣布,他发表了这篇演讲,为即将到来的事情做准备。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


“We have asked much of you in the past months, you resilient people. The Germans across the water would ask more, worse for the British people. With no action on our island, we fear the worst. And we ask you, loyal sons and daughters of Britain to prepare to fight for the island. Give all that you can. But I give you this reassurance. We shall give the Germans something they do not expect. The resilience of our people will drive them back across the channel: We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.”
September 14, 1940 is remembered as the day Operation Seelöwe went into action.

“在过去的几个月里,我们向你们提出了很多要求,你们是坚韧的人。对岸的德国人会要求更多,对英国人来说更糟。在我们岛上不采取行动,我们担心会发生最坏的情况。我们要求你们,忠诚的英国儿女们准备为这座岛而战。尽你所能去付出。但我向你保证。我们要给德国人意想不到的东西。我们将不惜一切代价保卫我们的岛屿,我们将在海滩上作战,我们将在登陆场作战,我们将在田间和街头作战,我们将在山区作战;我们决不投降。”
1940年9月14日是海狮行动开始的日子。


The Luftwaffe worked in deadly cohesion with the German navy to create small openings to Sussex and Kent. Brighton, Portsmoth, and Dover being the primary targets. Hundreds of German Paratroopers dropped into the countryside around these towns/cities and mobilized around them as the German ‘Kriegsmarine' launched a dangerous Amphibious assault on the beaches around these cities that were heavily guarded by British home guard. The paratroopers disabled connections from the beaches to British reinforcements farther north then proceeded to launch a flank move against the Brits holding the beaches. The British fought valiantly and almost to the last man, retreating to the nearest city to defend it with their lives, aided by locals who harried the Germans at every opportunity. With beach heads secured, except at Dover, where the resistance was the staunchest, the Kriegsmarine were faced with retreat or climbing the white cliffs. They chose retreat. Massive German convoy trains pour German veterans from France into Britain. This is the first time Britain has been invaded since the Norman conquest.

德国空军与德国海军紧密合作,开辟了通往苏塞克斯和肯特的小通道。布莱顿,朴茨茅斯和多佛是主要目标。数百名德国伞兵空降到这些城镇周围的乡村,在他们周围动员起来,德国“Kriegsmarine”对这些城市周围的海滩发起了危险的两栖攻击,这些城市周围有英国本土警卫队的重兵把守。
空降兵切断了从海滩到更北部的英军增援部队的联系,然后开始向占领海滩的英军发起侧翼进攻。英国人英勇作战,几乎打到最后一个人,撤退到最近的城市,用他们的生命保卫它,在当地人的帮助下,他们抓住每一个机会骚扰德国人。
除了在多佛抵抗最坚决的地方外,在滩头阵地上,海军面临的是撤退或攀登白色悬崖。他们选择了撤退。庞大的德国舰队将德国老兵从法国运送到英国。这是自诺曼征服以来英国第一次被入侵。

The German Blitzkrieg decimated the Churchill line after a month of planning, which was enough time to evacuate parliament and the royal household to Canada. Churchill, sticking to his old admiralty days, left as the Germans were within 30 miles of London, wishing to ‘go down with his ship' but was convinced by Montgomery, who was leading the defense, to flee to Canada while he continued resistance efforts. Churchill reluctantly agreed. Continuing his war of logistics from Ottawa, making sure Montgomery, and the majority of British Military, received food, supplies, and equipment from the rest of the commonwealth. By January 1, 1941, the Germans secured Gloucester, to Oxford, to Maldon.

经过一个月的计划,德国闪电战摧毁了丘吉尔防线,有足够的时间将议会和皇室成员疏散到加拿大。丘吉尔坚持自己的海军生涯,在德国人离伦敦不到30英里的时候离开了,他希望“和他的船一起沉没”,但被领导防御的蒙哥马利说服,他逃到加拿大,同时继续抵抗。丘吉尔不情愿地同意了。在渥太华继续他的后勤战争,确保蒙哥马利和大部分英国军队,从其他联邦获得食物,补给和装备。1941年1月1日,德军占领了格洛斯特,牛津,马尔登。

Montgomery is stationed in Edinburgh, leading British resistance from the Scottish city. Montgomery realizes that the Germans have stopped. He immediately plans a counter-offensive.
Meanwhile, Erwin Rommel, head of the campaign returns to London to discuss that matter with Wilhelm Keitel who also considers himself head of the campaign. Göring has organized a visit for Hitler to London, upon Hitler's request and insistence.
Rommel wanted to seize ports on the West coast of England so the resources reaching the British was minimal, while Keitel thought they had reached far enough and needed to set up a puppet, like in France, so they could pull these veterans from Britain and prepare for Barbarossa, which Keitel was adamantly against but it was out of his hands.

蒙哥马利驻扎在爱丁堡,带领英军在苏格兰城市进行抵抗。蒙哥马利意识到德军已经停止进攻。他立即计划反攻。
与此同时,战役负责人埃尔温·隆美尔(Erwin Rommel)返回伦敦,与同样认为自己是战役负责人的威廉·凯特尔(Wilhelm Keitel)讨论此事。应希特勒的要求和坚持,戈林组织希特勒访问伦敦。
隆美尔想要占领英格兰西海岸的港口,而凯特尔认为他们已经到达了足够远的地方,需要建立一个傀儡政府,就像在法国那样,这样他们就可以从英国撤走这些老兵,为巴巴罗萨做准备,尽管巴巴罗萨计划凯特尔坚决反对,但这不是他能控制的。

Keitel, pulling rank on Rommel, ordained Oswald Mosely as the leader of occupied Britain while they sent discord to Edward VIII, offering him control of Britain if he cooperates with the Nazi Regime on the mainland. Oswald Mosely had been leader of the British unx of Fascists, making him an ideal candidate, but he was perfectly content being temporary leader then serving under Edward VIII.
Edward VIII returned from his exile to the Bahamas and was ordained as King of Great Britain, but now, an absolute monarch.
On March 10, Oswald Mosely was shot while driving his car through London by a British Freedom fighter. many Londoners, guilty and not of freedom fighting, were rounded up and sent to prison camps erected in the country-side.

凯特尔,在隆美尔的威名之下,任命奥斯瓦尔德·莫斯利(Oswald Mosely)为被占领的英国的领袖。同时他们向爱德华八世表示不满,如果他在大陆上与纳粹政权采取合作态度,他就可以控制英国。奥斯瓦尔德·莫斯利曾是英国法西斯联盟的领导人,这使他成为理想的候选人,但他完全满足于在爱德华八世手下担任临时领导人。
爱德华八世结束流放回到巴哈马群岛,被任命为大不列颠国王。
3月10日,奥斯瓦尔德·莫斯利开车穿过伦敦时被一名英国自由战士开枪打死。许多伦敦人,无论是否有罪都被围捕起来,关进了建在乡间的战俘营。

Rommel and Keitel are working as hard as possible to push back the date of Barbarossa. They managed to fake reports of logistical problems and exaggerated reports of British resistance to get Hitler to push the date into 1942.
On December 7, 1941, the Japanese Empire bombed Pearl Harbor, forcing the United States into the conflict of world war 2. The United States was already at war with Japan as a given and technically with Bahamas, an unofficial part of Edwards British Empire. A marine division was dispatched December 16, 1941 and took the islands in 3 days.
The United States then was defending against the Japanese at key points in the Pacific.

隆美尔和凯特尔正在尽最大努力把巴巴罗萨的日期往后推。他们设法伪造后勤问题的报告,夸大英国抵抗的报告,让希特勒把日期推迟到1942年。
1941年12月7日,日本帝国轰炸珍珠港,迫使美国卷入第二次世界大战。美国已经和日本处于战争状态,从技术上讲,美国和巴哈马群岛处于战争状态,巴哈马群岛是爱德华大英帝国的非官方部分。1941年12月16日,海军陆战队派出一个师,在3天内占领了这些岛屿。
当时,美国正在太平洋上的几个关键据点抵御日本的进攻。

The German Empire declared war on the United States on December 9, 1941. Italy, however, pushed the declaration back, not declaring war on the United States. This caused tension with the rest of the Axis, but Mussolini was firm. This created a strange relationship between the power houses where the Italians didn't oppose the Americans but didn't allow them access to Italian territory, which consisted of North Africa, The West Balkans, and the Italian Peninsula.
The Americans sent forces under the control of Douglas MacArthur and Omar Bradley to Britain Proper. Rommel was extremely concerned now. MacArthur, with Montgomery, put Montgomery’s plan into action, but with MacArthur driving through the Germans center, rather than relying on surrounding the Germans solely in Mongomerys’ plan.

1941年12月9日,德意志帝国对美国宣战。然而,意大利推迟了宣言,并没有向美国宣战。这在强国之间产生了一种奇怪的关系,意大利人不反对美国人,但不允许美国人进入意大利的领土,包括北非、西巴尔干半岛和意大利半岛。
美军在道格拉斯·麦克阿瑟和奥马尔·布拉德利(Omar Bradley)的指挥下向英国本土派兵。隆美尔现在非常担心。麦克阿瑟和蒙哥马利一起,将蒙哥马利的计划付诸行动,但麦克阿瑟派兵直插德国中心,而不是完全按照蒙哥马利的计划包围德军。
(未完待续)

 
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