网友讨论：为什么法国在二战中表现那么差劲？
正文翻译
网友讨论：为什么法国在二战中表现那么差劲？
网友讨论：为什么法国在二战中表现那么差劲？
评论翻译
Stephen Benner
I find it interesting that after centuries of being a feared military power throughout the world, one war changed the French reputation.
有趣的是几个世纪以来法国一直是世界上令人敬畏的军事强国，但一场战争彻底改变了法国的名声。
I find it interesting that after centuries of being a feared military power throughout the world, one war changed the French reputation.
有趣的是几个世纪以来法国一直是世界上令人敬畏的军事强国，但一场战争彻底改变了法国的名声。
Feddy von Wigglestein
They suffered among the worst in the Great War, casualty wise and the fact that so many of the battles on the western front were fought in their territory. Many of the leaders didn't have the stomach for another war and, combined with the problems outlined in the video, led to the French soldier being ridiculed. But as Napoleon said - there are no bad soldiers, only bad generals.
在第一次世界大战中法国遭到了最严重的打击，伤亡惨重，西线的很多战役都是在法国境内打的。法国的很多领导人不想再打仗了，再加上视频中概述的问题，导致法国人士兵受人嘲笑。但正如拿破仑所说的那样，没有不好的士兵，只有不好的将军。
They suffered among the worst in the Great War, casualty wise and the fact that so many of the battles on the western front were fought in their territory. Many of the leaders didn't have the stomach for another war and, combined with the problems outlined in the video, led to the French soldier being ridiculed. But as Napoleon said - there are no bad soldiers, only bad generals.
在第一次世界大战中法国遭到了最严重的打击，伤亡惨重，西线的很多战役都是在法国境内打的。法国的很多领导人不想再打仗了，再加上视频中概述的问题，导致法国人士兵受人嘲笑。但正如拿破仑所说的那样，没有不好的士兵，只有不好的将军。
Aztec lazy farmer
@Feddy von Wigglestein Russia lost 2 million soldiers in the Great War, and then another 1 million in the civil war, but russians kept fighting, and Great Britain too. French soldiers know how to fight, but french politicians really suck and generals too...
俄罗斯在一战中损失了200万士兵，在内战中又失去了100万士兵，但俄罗斯人坚持战斗，大英帝国同样也是如此。法国的士兵知道如何打仗， 但法国的政客和将军真的是糟糕透了
@Feddy von Wigglestein Russia lost 2 million soldiers in the Great War, and then another 1 million in the civil war, but russians kept fighting, and Great Britain too. French soldiers know how to fight, but french politicians really suck and generals too...
俄罗斯在一战中损失了200万士兵，在内战中又失去了100万士兵，但俄罗斯人坚持战斗，大英帝国同样也是如此。法国的士兵知道如何打仗， 但法国的政客和将军真的是糟糕透了
VuHien2011
The difference is that the Bolshevik government does not give a damn how much people they lose, the French government cares for its people
区别在于布尔什维克政府根本不在乎自己损失了多少人，但法国政府在乎自己的人民。
The difference is that the Bolshevik government does not give a damn how much people they lose, the French government cares for its people
区别在于布尔什维克政府根本不在乎自己损失了多少人，但法国政府在乎自己的人民。
I'll slap you with an onion fillled sock
@Feddy von Wigglestein You could say the same thing for Germany yet they did amazing during the Second World War.
德国在一战中也损失了很多的人，但他们在二战中的表现令人惊叹。
@Feddy von Wigglestein You could say the same thing for Germany yet they did amazing during the Second World War.
德国在一战中也损失了很多的人，但他们在二战中的表现令人惊叹。
Richard Ides
@VuHien2011 French Empire population
114,386,572 people. France had colonies colonies provided raw materials such as lumber, iron, and food + African manpower.
法兰西帝国当时拥有1.14亿人口。法国有殖民地，这些地方可以为法国提供各种原材料，比如木材，铁矿和粮食，再加上非洲有丰富的人力资源。
@VuHien2011 French Empire population
114,386,572 people. France had colonies colonies provided raw materials such as lumber, iron, and food + African manpower.
法兰西帝国当时拥有1.14亿人口。法国有殖民地，这些地方可以为法国提供各种原材料，比如木材，铁矿和粮食，再加上非洲有丰富的人力资源。
VuHien2011
@Richard Ides food? Are you kidding me? The colonies do not even have enough food for themselves, so what do you think you can import to France? The French eat bread, not tapioca...Population? Because you think that the Africans are going to help design and build tanks, cannon and planes?
粮食？你在和我开玩笑吗？殖民地自己都没有足够的粮食，所以你指望他们可以出口什么东西到法国？法国人吃面包，不吃木薯粉。非洲大量的人口？你认为非洲人可以帮助法国设计建造坦克，大炮和飞机吗？
@Richard Ides food? Are you kidding me? The colonies do not even have enough food for themselves, so what do you think you can import to France? The French eat bread, not tapioca...Population? Because you think that the Africans are going to help design and build tanks, cannon and planes?
粮食？你在和我开玩笑吗？殖民地自己都没有足够的粮食，所以你指望他们可以出口什么东西到法国？法国人吃面包，不吃木薯粉。非洲大量的人口？你认为非洲人可以帮助法国设计建造坦克，大炮和飞机吗？
Richard Ides
@VuHien2011 No, resorces to create tanks cannon and planes. France was in better position then Germany when it comes to resources. Germany was dependent even in peacetime on external sources for an adequate supply of oil + lack of rubber (for truck tires).
不，非洲可以为法国提供建造坦克，大炮和飞机的资源。法国在资源方面比德国更具优势。即便是在和平时期，德国也需要从外部获得足够的石油资源，而且德国缺少橡胶（可以用于卡车轮胎）。
@VuHien2011 No, resorces to create tanks cannon and planes. France was in better position then Germany when it comes to resources. Germany was dependent even in peacetime on external sources for an adequate supply of oil + lack of rubber (for truck tires).
不，非洲可以为法国提供建造坦克，大炮和飞机的资源。法国在资源方面比德国更具优势。即便是在和平时期，德国也需要从外部获得足够的石油资源，而且德国缺少橡胶（可以用于卡车轮胎）。
VuHien2011
this is where we disagree. the French would have fought as hard as anyone if it was worth it. But, a combination of luck and mistakes from the French made the situation unsalvageable. When the Germans were already at the gate of Paris, it was the end. No point to continue fighting. A country continued to fight with the capital in the hands of the enemy? So don't put the blame on the French. Actually, nobody can beat the Germans besides US.
这就是我们的分歧所在，如果真的值得的话，那么法国人会像所有人一样奋起一战，但法国人运气不佳再加上犯了一连串的错误导致情况无法挽回。当德国人抵达巴黎门口时，一切都已经结束了。继续战斗已经没有意义了。一个国家的首都都已经沦落敌手，这个时候还能继续战斗吗？所以不要把责任推到法国人身上。事实上，除了美国以外，没有人可以打败德国人。
this is where we disagree. the French would have fought as hard as anyone if it was worth it. But, a combination of luck and mistakes from the French made the situation unsalvageable. When the Germans were already at the gate of Paris, it was the end. No point to continue fighting. A country continued to fight with the capital in the hands of the enemy? So don't put the blame on the French. Actually, nobody can beat the Germans besides US.
这就是我们的分歧所在，如果真的值得的话，那么法国人会像所有人一样奋起一战，但法国人运气不佳再加上犯了一连串的错误导致情况无法挽回。当德国人抵达巴黎门口时，一切都已经结束了。继续战斗已经没有意义了。一个国家的首都都已经沦落敌手，这个时候还能继续战斗吗？所以不要把责任推到法国人身上。事实上，除了美国以外，没有人可以打败德国人。
Madembe Moheleh
American propaganda
这是美国人的宣传
American propaganda
这是美国人的宣传
BW
One war? Although WW2 was by far their worst performance, it was not the only one. The period of france military domination ended after Napoeleon and in the three wars with Germany since then they always failed. In the Franco Prussian war, they thought they could beat Germany and then their King became captive, their army got destroyed and their capital was besieged. In WW1 they could hold a stalemate bit only against half of the german army and with british support and then of course WW2 came and destroyed everything what was left from their former reputation
法国的名声被一场战争给毁了？虽然二战是目前法国表现最差的一次战争，但这不是唯一一次。在拿破仑之后法国的军事主导地位就已经结束了，从那以后和德国的三次战争中他们总是吃败仗。在普法战争中，他们以为自己可以打败德国，但没有想到最后连自己的国王都被俘虏了，他们的军队被消灭，首都被围困。在第一次世界大战中，即便有着英国的帮助，他们也只能和一半的德国军队打成僵局。后来到了第二次世界大战，法国以往所留的名声在这场战争中被毁的一干二净。
One war? Although WW2 was by far their worst performance, it was not the only one. The period of france military domination ended after Napoeleon and in the three wars with Germany since then they always failed. In the Franco Prussian war, they thought they could beat Germany and then their King became captive, their army got destroyed and their capital was besieged. In WW1 they could hold a stalemate bit only against half of the german army and with british support and then of course WW2 came and destroyed everything what was left from their former reputation
法国的名声被一场战争给毁了？虽然二战是目前法国表现最差的一次战争，但这不是唯一一次。在拿破仑之后法国的军事主导地位就已经结束了，从那以后和德国的三次战争中他们总是吃败仗。在普法战争中，他们以为自己可以打败德国，但没有想到最后连自己的国王都被俘虏了，他们的军队被消灭，首都被围困。在第一次世界大战中，即便有着英国的帮助，他们也只能和一半的德国军队打成僵局。后来到了第二次世界大战，法国以往所留的名声在这场战争中被毁的一干二净。
Matt Donikowski
We all heard jokes at the expense of the french . However we also must honor the french soldiers who fought hard. It's not their fault their leadership was incompetent
我们都听说过法国人的笑话。但我们也必须向英勇作战的法国士兵致敬。这不是他们的错，这一切都是因为他们的领导无能
We all heard jokes at the expense of the french . However we also must honor the french soldiers who fought hard. It's not their fault their leadership was incompetent
我们都听说过法国人的笑话。但我们也必须向英勇作战的法国士兵致敬。这不是他们的错，这一切都是因为他们的领导无能
jmfa57
We should remember that, in WWI, nearly one in four young Frenchmen died fighting. I would never, ever underestimate them.
我们要知道在一战中将近四分之一的法国年轻人都牺牲了。我永远不会低估他们
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
We should remember that, in WWI, nearly one in four young Frenchmen died fighting. I would never, ever underestimate them.
我们要知道在一战中将近四分之一的法国年轻人都牺牲了。我永远不会低估他们
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Marc Bachelet
Sure, America lost in Korea in 1950s, then lost again in Cuba in 1960s and Vietnam in 1970s. It looks like it's going to lose to Afghan Taliban very soon. The French did not continuously lose so many wars.
美国在上世纪50年代输掉了朝鲜战争，在60年代和70年代又分别输掉了在古巴和越南的战争。似乎很快美国又将输给阿富汗的塔利班了。法国人没有像美国人那样连续输掉那么多场战争。
Sure, America lost in Korea in 1950s, then lost again in Cuba in 1960s and Vietnam in 1970s. It looks like it's going to lose to Afghan Taliban very soon. The French did not continuously lose so many wars.
美国在上世纪50年代输掉了朝鲜战争，在60年代和70年代又分别输掉了在古巴和越南的战争。似乎很快美国又将输给阿富汗的塔利班了。法国人没有像美国人那样连续输掉那么多场战争。
Michael 732
@Marc Bachelet I get what you are saying. But their is a big difference between backing out of a limited conflict and surrendering your country to an enemy.
我明白你的意思，但从有限的冲突中撤出和将自己的国家拱手让给敌人是有着巨大区别的。
@Marc Bachelet I get what you are saying. But their is a big difference between backing out of a limited conflict and surrendering your country to an enemy.
我明白你的意思，但从有限的冲突中撤出和将自己的国家拱手让给敌人是有着巨大区别的。
Sean Gardner
Mark Bellows 1st no one won the Korean War it ended in stalemate 2 Vietnam was very different with it being a guerilla war that the Americans were not prepared for 3. The wars in the Middle East are also different with the taliban not being a country being a organization so they are spread apart and impossible to make sure they are all gone in a area also France lost tin Vietnam as well
第一朝鲜战争没有赢家，最后以僵局收场。第二越南战争非常不一样，这是一场有游击战，美国没有做好准备，第三中东战争也很不一样，因为塔利班不是一个国家而是一个组织，他们四处分散无法将其集中消灭，而且法国在越南也输了。
Mark Bellows 1st no one won the Korean War it ended in stalemate 2 Vietnam was very different with it being a guerilla war that the Americans were not prepared for 3. The wars in the Middle East are also different with the taliban not being a country being a organization so they are spread apart and impossible to make sure they are all gone in a area also France lost tin Vietnam as well
第一朝鲜战争没有赢家，最后以僵局收场。第二越南战争非常不一样，这是一场有游击战，美国没有做好准备，第三中东战争也很不一样，因为塔利班不是一个国家而是一个组织，他们四处分散无法将其集中消灭，而且法国在越南也输了。
Marc Bachelet
@Sean Gardner France occupied Vietnam from 1880s to 1960s. They changed Vietnam's written language and architecture.
从1880年代到1960年代法国一直占领着越南。他们改变了越南的文字和建筑。
@Sean Gardner France occupied Vietnam from 1880s to 1960s. They changed Vietnam's written language and architecture.
从1880年代到1960年代法国一直占领着越南。他们改变了越南的文字和建筑。
yia01
actually it is there fault that their leadership was so crappy. it them themself who vote the leaders.
事实上领导人那么差劲也是他们自己的错，因为是他们自己选出了这些领导人。
actually it is there fault that their leadership was so crappy. it them themself who vote the leaders.
事实上领导人那么差劲也是他们自己的错，因为是他们自己选出了这些领导人。
Shyning
@yia01 the military is not democratic, so... no.
军队领导人不是民主选出的，所以这不是他们的错
@yia01 the military is not democratic, so... no.
军队领导人不是民主选出的，所以这不是他们的错
Anand Nair
I think blitzkrieg as a new concept took every country by surprise. Ussr held on because of its depth and manpower. If ussr was a country as small as any other European country, it would have succumbed like France, Yugoslavia or Greece.
我认为每个国家都被闪电战这样的新型作战理念搞得措手不及。苏联可以坚持下来是因为他有领土纵深和丰富的人力资源。如果苏联是和其他国家一样的小国的话，那么他也会像法国，南斯拉夫或希腊一样屈服于德国。
I think blitzkrieg as a new concept took every country by surprise. Ussr held on because of its depth and manpower. If ussr was a country as small as any other European country, it would have succumbed like France, Yugoslavia or Greece.
我认为每个国家都被闪电战这样的新型作战理念搞得措手不及。苏联可以坚持下来是因为他有领土纵深和丰富的人力资源。如果苏联是和其他国家一样的小国的话，那么他也会像法国，南斯拉夫或希腊一样屈服于德国。
Antò Sbielli
Many leaders at the time thought USSR was gonna be eaten in a week.. But the size of the country, and its climate..
当时许多国家领导人都认为苏联会在一周之内被干掉，但这个国家的面积太大了，而且气候严酷，，，
Many leaders at the time thought USSR was gonna be eaten in a week.. But the size of the country, and its climate..
当时许多国家领导人都认为苏联会在一周之内被干掉，但这个国家的面积太大了，而且气候严酷，，，
Kaiserreich Mapping
The USSR held on because you simply can't blitzkrieg through Russia.
苏联坚持了下来是因为你根本无法对俄罗斯用闪电战。
The USSR held on because you simply can't blitzkrieg through Russia.
苏联坚持了下来是因为你根本无法对俄罗斯用闪电战。
Itami Youji
The German army almost reached Moscow, and they would have if Hitler didn't insist that the northernmost army group travel south to assist the southernmost army group.
德国军队几乎就要抵达莫斯科了，如果希特勒没有坚持让最北方的集团军南下援助最南端的集团军的话，那么德军早就攻入莫斯科了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The German army almost reached Moscow, and they would have if Hitler didn't insist that the northernmost army group travel south to assist the southernmost army group.
德国军队几乎就要抵达莫斯科了，如果希特勒没有坚持让最北方的集团军南下援助最南端的集团军的话，那么德军早就攻入莫斯科了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Peter George
The heroic French rearguard action at Dunkirk allowed Britain to rescue its army, without which they could not have continued the war. The French problem was that their Generals were inept.
法国人在敦刻尔克英勇的殿后，这让英国保住了自己的军队，如果没有法国人殿后的话，后面的战争根本就打不下去。法国的问题在于将军们非常无能。
The heroic French rearguard action at Dunkirk allowed Britain to rescue its army, without which they could not have continued the war. The French problem was that their Generals were inept.
法国人在敦刻尔克英勇的殿后，这让英国保住了自己的军队，如果没有法国人殿后的话，后面的战争根本就打不下去。法国的问题在于将军们非常无能。
melkok
Yes, but they made so many mistakes.
是的，但他们犯了非常多的错误。
Yes, but they made so many mistakes.
是的，但他们犯了非常多的错误。
Nicolas
It was not only generals. The politicians kept cutting military budget and ignoring the German threat.
不仅仅是将军无能。法国政客一直在削减军事预算，无视德国的威胁。
It was not only generals. The politicians kept cutting military budget and ignoring the German threat.
不仅仅是将军无能。法国政客一直在削减军事预算，无视德国的威胁。
Goth Elvis
It was BECAUSE of France that Dunkirk happened, they couldn't defend their country, ignored British Generals advice and stayed on the Maginot Line. Because of this decision, Germany cut in and flanked. Forcing Britain to retreat.
都是因为法国所以才会有敦刻尔克大撤退，他们无法保卫自己的国家，无视英国将军的建议，将军队都放在了马奇诺防线上。就是因为这个决定，德国才从侧翼切入进来，迫使英国大撤退。
It was BECAUSE of France that Dunkirk happened, they couldn't defend their country, ignored British Generals advice and stayed on the Maginot Line. Because of this decision, Germany cut in and flanked. Forcing Britain to retreat.
都是因为法国所以才会有敦刻尔克大撤退，他们无法保卫自己的国家，无视英国将军的建议，将军队都放在了马奇诺防线上。就是因为这个决定，德国才从侧翼切入进来，迫使英国大撤退。
druisteen
@Goth Elvis Dunkirk happened because BELGIAN surrendered !
敦刻尔克之所以会发生是因为比利时投降了
@Goth Elvis Dunkirk happened because BELGIAN surrendered !
敦刻尔克之所以会发生是因为比利时投降了
James Mason
A lot of the French army was rescued as well.
很多法国军队也获救了
A lot of the French army was rescued as well.
很多法国军队也获救了
Gilles Meura
Simplistic view on the Maginot line. It was actually quite effective: it prevented a direct German attack on the industrial heartland of France, and bought time for the main French forces.
The main causes for the French defeat were:
Very poor military leadership, Weak counterattacks against the German spearhead, compounded by poor logistics, lack of training of tank crews, poor tank design (one-man turrets...)
+Luck on the German side!
视频对马奇诺防线的看法过于简单了。这条防线实际上非常有效：它阻止了德国对法国工业核心区的直接攻击，为法国主力部队赢得了时间。
法国战败的主要原因在于：法国军事领导层非常糟糕，对德国先头部队的反击力量不够，后勤保障薄弱，驾驶坦克的士兵缺少训练，坦克设计的很差
再加上德国这边非常幸运。
Simplistic view on the Maginot line. It was actually quite effective: it prevented a direct German attack on the industrial heartland of France, and bought time for the main French forces.
The main causes for the French defeat were:
Very poor military leadership, Weak counterattacks against the German spearhead, compounded by poor logistics, lack of training of tank crews, poor tank design (one-man turrets...)
+Luck on the German side!
视频对马奇诺防线的看法过于简单了。这条防线实际上非常有效：它阻止了德国对法国工业核心区的直接攻击，为法国主力部队赢得了时间。
法国战败的主要原因在于：法国军事领导层非常糟糕，对德国先头部队的反击力量不够，后勤保障薄弱，驾驶坦克的士兵缺少训练，坦克设计的很差
再加上德国这边非常幸运。
John Rodriguez
I agree but I don't think it was luck for the Germans but better tactics and equipment. The problem with the French is that they were still fighting with strategies of the last war and failed to think outside the box like the Germans did. Imho
我同意你的看法，但我认为这不是因为德国人的运气，而是因为他们有更好的战术和装备。法国人的问题在于他们依然在使用一战时期的战术进行作战，没有像德国人那样跳出思维定势。
I agree but I don't think it was luck for the Germans but better tactics and equipment. The problem with the French is that they were still fighting with strategies of the last war and failed to think outside the box like the Germans did. Imho
我同意你的看法，但我认为这不是因为德国人的运气，而是因为他们有更好的战术和装备。法国人的问题在于他们依然在使用一战时期的战术进行作战，没有像德国人那样跳出思维定势。
Drive & Walk
The only goal of the Maginot line was to force the Germans to attack from the north, in order to be able to concentrate the Franco-British defense on a slightly smaller line, so as not to disperse the French army too much. And this goal has been perfectly achieved. The main mistake was to neglect the Ardennes forest. And once the Germans got around the French army, the battle was all but lost.
马奇诺防线的唯一目标就是迫使德国人从北方发动进攻，以便将法英的防御力量集中在稍微较短的防线内，避免法军力量过度的分散。这个目标已经得到了完美的实现，他们唯一的错误是忽视了阿登森林。一旦德军绕过了法军，那么这场战役几乎就输定了。
The only goal of the Maginot line was to force the Germans to attack from the north, in order to be able to concentrate the Franco-British defense on a slightly smaller line, so as not to disperse the French army too much. And this goal has been perfectly achieved. The main mistake was to neglect the Ardennes forest. And once the Germans got around the French army, the battle was all but lost.
马奇诺防线的唯一目标就是迫使德国人从北方发动进攻，以便将法英的防御力量集中在稍微较短的防线内，避免法军力量过度的分散。这个目标已经得到了完美的实现，他们唯一的错误是忽视了阿登森林。一旦德军绕过了法军，那么这场战役几乎就输定了。
Warthog Goulags
the Maginot line was to expensive and with all the money that would be save by not building it, france would have more tanks, better tanks, more plane, better plane, and maybe could have adpoted a more modernise strategy, so germany would have lost
马奇诺防线太昂贵了，如果不建马奇诺防线那么法国就可以省下一大笔钱，法国可以用这些买到更多更好的坦克，更多更好的飞机，或许法国会采用更加现代化的战术，那么德国就赢不了了。
the Maginot line was to expensive and with all the money that would be save by not building it, france would have more tanks, better tanks, more plane, better plane, and maybe could have adpoted a more modernise strategy, so germany would have lost
马奇诺防线太昂贵了，如果不建马奇诺防线那么法国就可以省下一大笔钱，法国可以用这些买到更多更好的坦克，更多更好的飞机，或许法国会采用更加现代化的战术，那么德国就赢不了了。
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