为什么纳粹德国没有从拿破仑试图入侵俄国的错误中吸取教训?(一)
2022-11-20 翻译熊 8358
正文翻译

How come Nazi Germany didn’t learn from Napoleon’s blunder of trying to invade Russia?

为什么纳粹德国没有从拿破仑试图入侵俄国的错误中吸取教训?

评论翻译
Ivory Campbell
An infatuation with Moscow and St Petersburg. Also the respective German & French leadership had the same exaggerated importance and, contrary to their propaganda, had very little empathy for their own citizens and soldiers. This combonation resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Unfortunately war only amplifies these characteristics and many forces (before, during and after) have also succumbed to their leaders egomania. While there is evil in the world, hopefully, in the future, we can realize that large scale warfare was mans worst creation.

对莫斯科和圣彼得堡的迷恋。
此外,德国和法国各自的领导人都存在高估自己,他们对自己的公民和士兵几乎没有同情心。这种组合导致数百万人不必要的死亡。
不幸的是,战争只会放大这些特征,许多势力(之前、期间和之后)也屈从于其领导人的自大。虽然世界上有邪恶,但希望在未来,我们可以认识到大规模战争是人类最糟糕的创造。

Lee Rich
The invasion of Russia was - what we call today -a preemptive strike. The Germans believed (and the information we have now makes it appear accurate) that the Soviets were prepared to invade Germany. So, by attacking the Soviets first, they destroyed most (if not all) of their primary offensive capabilities before the Soviets could use them.
In modern terms, this would be like destroying all of Russia's nuclear missiles while they were still in the silos.
Obviously, the problem is…once you launch an invasion like that, you can't force the enemy to agree the war is over by destroying their offensive capabilities. So, you're stuck trying to have to conquer enough territory to make them surrender. Which the Germans weren't able to do. Mainly, because Hitler demanded the German military waste resources to conquer Stalingrad for a “propaganda win" rather than striking south into Azerbaijan and/or north to Moscow.

入侵俄国就是我们今天所说的先发制人的打击。德国人相信(我们现在掌握的信息使其看起来很准确)苏联人准备入侵德国。因此,通过先攻击苏军,他们在苏军动身前就摧毁了苏军的大部分(如果不是全部的话)主要进攻能力。
用现代的话来说,这就像在俄罗斯的核导弹还在发射井里的时候就摧毁它们一样。
很明显,问题是,一旦你发动了这样的入侵,你不能通过摧毁敌人的进攻能力来迫使他们同意战争已经结束。所以,你不得不试图征服足够的领土,让他们投降。而德国人做不到。主要是因为希特勒要求德国军队浪费资源征服斯大林格勒以获得“宣传上的胜利”,而不是向南进攻阿塞拜疆和/或向北进攻莫斯科。

Peter Clings
I believe that the Germans before WW2 (Generals and Hitler) were batting on a win as they have experience by themselves during WW1. They were probably no fools or ignorant of history just over confident, partially motivated from experience

我相信二战前的德国人(将军和希特勒)是在争取胜利,因为他们在一战中有自己的经验。他们可能不是傻瓜或对历史一无所知,只是过于自信,部分是受经验的驱使。

Anonymous
Hitler believed he could defeat Russia with a quick short campaign. To him the whole Russian system was corrupt and all he had to do was kick in the door and the whole rotten mess would come tumbling down. He was wrong of course. Even when the Soviets pushed the German military all the way back to the borders of Germany itself he still believed he could win the war, By this time he was delusional

希特勒相信他可以用一场快速而短暂的战役打败俄国。对他来说,整个俄国的体制都是腐败的,他所要做的就是踢开大门,整个腐败的烂摊子就会滚下来。
当然,他错了。甚至当苏联人把德国军队一路赶回德国边境时,他仍然相信自己能赢得战争,但这时他不过是在妄想。

Jason Taylor
Associates from Mt. Hood Community College, Gresham, OR2y
There was no where else to conquer, and Nazi ideology was predicated on fighting Bolshevics, gaining living space, and purifying the Aryan Race. Those goals could not be realized without invading Russia.

没有其他地方可以征服,而纳粹的意识形态是基于与布尔什维克作战,获得生存空间,净化雅利安种族。不入侵俄国,这些目标就无法实现。

Gordon Allen
The situation was not analogous Weapons technology had changed dramatically, and more importantly industrialization(and it’s requirements)now offered potentially decisive targets that didn’t exist in 1812. Germany had a good chance of achieving its aims in 1941/42.After all, it achieved them in Russia in 1918 (Treaty of Brest-Litovsk), and they were similar.

武器技术发生了巨大的变化,更重要的是,工业化(及其要求)现在提供了1812年不存在的潜在决定性目标。
1941/42年,德国有很好的机会实现其目标。毕竟,它在1918年的俄国就实现了(《布列斯特-立托夫斯克条约》),而且它们是相似的。
译注:布列斯特和约,全称《布列斯特—立托夫斯克和约》,是第一次世界大战中苏俄政府与德国为首的同盟国在布列斯特-立托夫斯克(今布列斯特)签订的和约。它是苏维埃俄国(以下简称苏俄)同德意志帝国及其同盟国(奥匈帝国、奥斯曼帝国、保加利亚王国)1918年3月3日在布列斯特-立托夫斯克(今白俄罗斯布列斯特)签订的条约。
它是弗拉基米尔·伊里奇·列宁为首的苏联共产党为保存新生的苏维埃政权而被迫采取的暂时妥协性行动,使苏俄尽早退出第一次世界大战,为巩固苏维埃政权,恢复和发展经济、建立红军赢得了喘息时间,为后来消灭反对苏维埃政权的国内武装和击退14个资本主义国家的武装干涉进一步奠定了基础。

Robert Clouse
At the time of Napoleon, the idea of completely defeating Netherlands, Belgium, and France in only 7 weeks wouldn't be found in even a dream.
Combine that history of the Quick defeat to 3 nations so quickly, and the Ego of Hitler, I am sure they didn't see that they would have any of the problems the Napoleon did when he invaded Russia.
Operation Barbarossa was named after Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor.
Frederick I, Holy Roman Emperor - Wikipedia
“Historians consider him among the Holy Roman Empire's greatest medi emperors. He combined qualities that made him appear almost superhuman to his contemporaries: his longevity, his ambition, his extraordinary skills at organization, his battlefield acumen and his political perspicacity. “
The Nazi German thought themselves and just as Superhuman as Frederick Barbarossa when they invaded Russia.

在拿破仑时代,在7周内彻底击败荷兰、比利时和法国的想法连做梦都不会想到。
结合3个国家快速战败的历史和希特勒的自负,我敢肯定他们没有看到他们会遇到拿破仑入侵俄国时遇到的任何问题。
巴巴罗萨行动是以神圣罗马皇帝腓特烈一世的名字命名的。链接略
历史学家认为他是神圣罗马帝国最伟大的中世纪皇帝之一。他综合了使他在同时代人看来几乎是超人的品质:他的长寿、他的野心、他非凡的组织能力、他的战场头脑和他的政治洞察力。”
当纳粹德国入侵俄国时,他们认为自己和弗雷德里克·巴巴罗萨一样是超人。

Andrew Anderson
I guess Hitler and his team were overconfident of the Wehrmacht’s ability to encircle and completely destroy all Soviet army units at the beginning of the war. If Germany had succeeded in doing this, then their Soviet War would literally be over, fairly quickly, with no remaining resistance aside from weak partisan movements. Had this happened, the Wehrmacht could then have easily occupied all of the USSR’s cities, industrial regions, and agricultural belts as far as the Urals. Such a success by the Germans might have enabled Hitler to win the war. Obviously, Hitler & Co miscalculated.

我猜希特勒和他的团队在战争开始时,对德国国防军包围并彻底摧毁所有苏军部队的能力过于自信了。如果德国成功做到了这一点,那么他们的苏联战争就会很快结束,除了微弱的党派运动,没有任何残存的抵抗。
如果发生了这种情况,德国国防军就可以轻松占领苏联的所有城市、工业区和农业带,一直到乌拉尔山脉。德国人的这种成功可能会使希特勒赢得战争。很明显,希特勒和他的同伙算错了。

The supreme irony is that Napoleon, too, expected to encircle and completely destroy all the Russian army’s divisions early in the 1812 war. Once the Russian army had been mopped up and destroyed within two or three months, the tsar would have nothing left to fight with except partisans, poorly equipped militias, and ragtag Cossack units. Under these conditions, Napoleon could have occupied most European Russian cities without facing significant resistance, and he might very well have been able to dictate peace to the tsar. But, as we all know, Napoleon goofed up, and very badly at that.
So, my answer to your question is that I don’t know why Hitler and his advisors expected to avoid the same pitfalls that snared Napoleon in Russia. The parallels between each invasion are definitely uncanny.

最具讽刺意味的是,拿破仑在1812年的战争中也期望包围并彻底摧毁俄军的所有师。一旦俄国军队在两三个月内被消灭,沙皇除了游击队、装备简陋的民兵和乌合之众的哥萨克部队外,就没有什么可打的了。
在这种情况下,拿破仑完全可以占领大部分欧洲的俄国城市,而不遭遇顽强抵抗,他完全可以向沙皇下达和平命令。但是,我们都知道,拿破仑搞砸了,而且搞得很糟。
所以,我对你的问题的回答是,我不知道为什么希特勒和他的顾问们期待能避免拿破仑在俄国陷入的同样陷阱。每次入侵之间的相似之处绝对是不可思议的。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Ronald Emmanuel
They did. They determined Napolean’s error was in pursuing taking cities instead of engaging and destroying the Russian army and seizing resources. They formulated the Hunger Plan to seize food and starve tens of millions of russians and on destroying that army however they had no idea how big that army really was and so they did not have the resources to kill it or to stop it deploying new formations and that's why they lost.

他们吸取教训了。
他们认为拿破仑的错误在于追求攻城掠地,而不是与俄国军队交战、摧毁他们并夺取资源。他们制定了饥饿计划,以夺取食物,使数千万俄国人挨饿,摧毁这支军队,然而他们不知道这支军队到底有多大,所以他们没有足够的资源杀死它或阻止它部署新的阵型,这就是他们失败的原因。

James Lingren
A lot of folks don’t know or recall that in WW One, Germany and the Austro-Hungarians knocked Russia out of the War.
The Russians signed a treaty giving the Germans huge territories.
Even worse than the Treaty of Versailles.

很多人不知道也不记得在第一次世界大战中,德国和奥匈帝国把俄国打了出去。
俄国人签署了一项条约,给了德国大片领土。
甚至比凡尔赛条约还要糟糕。

Sebastien Dorat
I’m not convinced that the comparison with Russia’s performance 25 years earlier was a decision driver for Germany in WW2 as the contexts for Russia were significantly different and the defeats of the Russians in WW1 not exclusively caused by the lack of valor of their troops. In WW1 the russians issues against the Germans by 1917 were significantly aggravated by the messy political situation domestically, further to revolution and the dissensions existing between Soviet’s and conservatives. Basically almost 2 governments coexisted and Russia was already on the verge of the civil war between reds and whites. The Russian army on the east front was significantly impacted by massive desertions since Lénine and the Soviets were pushing hard to sign an immediate peace with Germany at any cost (they preferred to focus these forces on the conquest of domestic power). Ultimately the soviets managed to sign a peace agreement with Germany. They didn’t care about the lost territories as anyway all what mattered to Lénine and his fans was to focus on the conquest of absolute soviet power in Russia itself and everything that could help,to disorganize the conservative government was welcome. Bolcheviks were obviously against any alliance with legacy capitalist and democratic western countries such as France and Britain.

我不相信与25年前俄罗斯的表现比较是德国在二战中的决策驱动因素,因为当时俄罗斯的情况有很大不同,俄罗斯在一战中的失败并不完全是因为他们的军队缺乏勇气。在第一次世界大战中,到1917年,俄国人与德国人之间的问题由于国内混乱的政治局势而严重恶化,进一步发展到革命和苏联与保守派之间存在的分歧。基本上两个政府同时存在。俄国已经处于红白内战的边缘,自列宁以来,东线的俄军受到了大规模逃兵的严重影响,苏联人极力争取与德国立即签署和平协议,不惜任何代价(他们更愿意将这些部队集中在征服国内力量上)。
最终苏联与德国签订了和平协议,他们不关心失去的领土,因为无论如何,对列宁和他的崇拜者来说,最重要的是专注于让苏联在俄罗斯拥有绝对权力,以及一切可以有助于这一目标的事情,解散保守政府是受欢迎的。布尔什维克显然反对与传统资本主义和民主的西方国家如法国和英国结盟。

Tomcat
I’ll get lighten on here, Because i am going to defend someone who is indeffendable in light of the history we are teached. But it is the truth … if you doubt, look at the sequence of war declarations on wikipedia. And you will be surprised … and you will also realize that what you were thought does not fit the facts. you may experience a cognitive dissonance.
Declarations of war during World War II - Wikipedia
So here we go :Hitler attacked Russia, not because he wanted to add onto , his already complicated war against people he didn’t want to get in war with (all the Anglo Saxon comunity), but because Russia was about to attack Europe and to take it over … so he anticipated that. And acted with the hope of a successful blitz krieg.

在这里我像澄清,因为我要为一个根据我们教授的错误历史所描绘的人进行辩护。这是事实,如果你怀疑,看看维基百科上的战争声明顺序。你会很惊讶,你也会意识到你的想法和事实并不相符。你可能会经历认知失调。
链接:《第二次世界大战期间的宣战》——维基
希特勒攻击俄国,不是因为他想在他本就复杂的战争上再加一层,他有不想与之交战的人(所有盎格鲁-撒克逊人),而是因为俄国即将进攻欧洲并统治它,所以他预料到了这一点。并抱着闪电战成功的希望行动。

When you will find the sequences of war declarations in WW2, you will be surprised how many declarations were made to Germany, and not inversed. What is not said, are the 10’s of letters Hitler wrote to countries not to make war, and later to make peace … including (this is also recorded as a fact) that he sent his right arm Rudolf Hess to Scotland, to have peace negotiations with Britain … who simply kept him as prisonner)
So … learning from Napoleon would have been good. (and probably they learned because they had the most advanced program to teach strategy and tactics to german officers) but when you have no choice … the story is different.

当你看一看二战中战争声明的顺序时,你会惊讶于有多少对德国的声明,而不是颠倒过来的。没有说的是,希特勒写给各国的那十多封信不是为了发动战争,而是为之后促成和平。包括(这也被记录为事实)他派遣他的右臂鲁道夫·赫斯到苏格兰与英国进行和平谈判,然而英国只是把他当作囚犯。
所以,向拿破仑学习是件好事,而且他们可能已经向他学习过了,因为他们有最先进的计划,可以向德国军官教授战略和战术。但当时你别无选择,时代变了。

Divaker V Vittal
The Nazis commenced operation Barbarosa in the summer of June to capture Moscow, destroy Stalingrad, Leningrad and Occupy oil fields in Romania with their Blitzkrieg tactic on a weaker Soviet unx which was practically immobile for a mechanized warfare and weighed heavily on junk armaments and a very large infantry.
The Germans knew way too well that their blitzkrieg is unstoppable by the reds to enter Moscow and the oil fields, so that they were pretty sure to capture these places much before rain commences which would make the Soviets hard for regrouping and army movements. The strategy was well made to use terrain and the weather to favor the occupiers and fortify places, whereas the Stuka Bombers would take care of the Soviet unxs railway lines and hamper army movement completely.
We can see the Nazi failure in the Russian theater in two parts: The first being delay in securing the oil fields and Hitler’s personal interests to delay direct assault on Moscow by the Nazis who were waiting for orders in her gates.

纳粹在6月的夏天开始了巴巴罗萨行动,占领莫斯科,摧毁斯大林格勒,列宁格勒,占领罗马尼亚的油田,他们的闪电战战术针对的是实力较弱的苏联,苏联在机械化战争中几乎没有机动能力,依靠大量的垃圾武器和庞大的步兵。
德国人非常清楚,他们的闪电战无法阻挡红军进入莫斯科和油田,所以他们肯定能在雨季之前占领这些地方,不过雨季会使苏军难以重新集结和调动军队。战略制定得很好,利用地形和天气有利于占领者,并在一些地方设防,而斯图卡轰炸机则针对苏联的铁路线,完全阻碍军队的行动。
我们可以看到纳粹在俄国战场上的失败有两部分:首先是拖延了对油田的保护,希特勒的私利,拖延了在莫斯科城门等待命令的纳粹的直接进攻。

Luftwaffe achieved air supremacy in the first week of attack and helped gaining grounds in the Baltic states in July, Ukraine and Moldavia and finally the Belorussian regions by July.
On 29th June Hitler instructed the commander Fedor Von Bock to halt the advancing panzers till regrouping of all other Nazi divisions forage. This decision took the tactical advantage of Nazis over the Soviets who were at a very weak spot in protecting the Kremlin as well as the city.
The waiting just grew longer as the Nazi skirmishes and political lobbying dragged Finland into the war delaying a whole week from any action, From 2nd July to 8th July a rainstrom slowed the Panzers progress and later the mechanized army broke down due to swamp roads.

德国空军在攻击的第一周就取得了制空权,并于7月在波罗的海诸国、乌克兰和摩尔达维亚取得了阵地,最终于7月占领了白俄罗斯地区。
6月29日,希特勒命令指挥官费多·冯·博克停止装甲部队前进,直到所有其他纳粹师重新集结。这一决定使纳粹的战术优势超过了苏军,苏军在保护克里姆林宫和这座城市方面处于非常薄弱的位置。
等待的时间越来越长,因为纳粹的小规模冲突和政治游说把芬兰拖入了战争,耽误了整整一个星期没有任何行动。从7月2日到7月8日,一场暴雨减缓了装甲部队的进度,后来机械化部队因沼泽道路而瘫痪。

Hitler continued with his mistakes series by diverting food and supply to those divisions fighting Belurisian regions to seize industrial areas and capture places which are glamorous like Kharkov, Donbass, Leningrad etc.
Fedor Von Bock's many requests were not heeded for a full direct assault on Moscow which was on a striking distance to them and his theory of reducing the Soviet unx's morale by capturing Moscow went unheeded with Hitler.
Hitler was too busy in circumventing Moscow in a pincer movement which would appear more glorious and glamorous on the map and of course he was too much interested on providing newer versions of the Panzers and to cause more harm cancelled assault rifles from the requisition.

希特勒继续着他的错误,将食物和补给转移给那些与白俄罗斯作战的师,以夺取工业地区,占领像哈尔科夫、顿巴斯、列宁格勒等迷人的地方。
费多·冯·博克的许多要求没有得到重视,没有对莫斯科进行全面直接攻击,因为莫斯科离他们有一定的打击距离,他关于占领莫斯科以降低苏联士气的理论也没有得到希特勒的重视。
希特勒忙着用夹击战术绕过莫斯科,这在地图上显得更加光荣和迷人。当然,他对提供更新的装甲坦克太感兴趣了,为了造成更大的伤害,他取消了对突击步枪的征用。

Michael Robinson
To/ Reader
I’m not sure exactly how much they could have learnt from Napoleon’s Russian campaign.
Yes, the Russians were persistent in both campaigns and Germany largely had the same kind of logistics as Napoleon, transporting some of their supplies using horses and carts/wagons, but that seems to be the end of the similarities between the 2.
The Russians had wider railways than the rest of Europe. Without building a fleet of new trains, specifically made for the Russian railway gauge, there was little the Germans could have done about it. No study of Napoleon’s Invasion of Russia could have prepared them for that.

致读者:
我不确定他们能从拿破仑的俄国战役中学到多少东西。
是的,俄国人在两次战役中都坚持不懈,而德国人基本上有和拿破仑一样的后勤保障,用马和马车运输他们的一些补给,但两国的相似之处似乎仅此而已。
俄国的铁路比欧洲其他国家都要宽如果不建立一支专门为俄罗斯铁路轨制设计的新列车车队,德国人几乎无能为力。对拿破仑入侵俄国的研究对此无济于事。

However, a major difference was the Russian strategy in countering both the French and Germans. Against the French, the Russian strategy of Kutuzov was to deny battle for as long as possible, making the French supply lines become overstretched and allowing diseases to take hold, whereas their strategy against the Germans was to engage them as soon as possible, using their population and equipment supplied by the UK and the US to form reserves.
The motivations of the 2 invasions were also different. The German aim was to capture the 3 main cities (Leningrad/St. Petersburg, Moscow, Stalingrad/Volgograd) and the oil in the Caucasus. However, Napoleon’s aim was to destroy the Russian field armies and force them to obey his will. Hitler both wanted and needed to occupy Russia whereas Napoleon just wanted to go in, smash the Russian army and force Tsar Alexander to rejoin the Continental System, after which he could return to Central Europe. He had no need to occupy anything.

然而,一个主要的区别是俄罗斯在对抗法国和德国方面的战略。针对法国,库图佐夫的俄国战略是尽可能长时间地拒绝战斗,使法国的补给线过度拉伸,让疾病蔓延,而他们对德国的战略是利用英国和美国提供的人口和装备,尽快与他们交战。
两次入侵的动机也不同。德军的目标是夺取三座主要城市(列宁格勒/圣彼得堡、莫斯科、斯大林格勒/伏尔加格勒)和高加索地区的石油。然而,拿破仑的目标是消灭俄国野战军,迫使他们服从他的意志。希特勒既想占领也需要占领俄国,而拿破仑只想进入俄国,粉碎俄国军队,迫使沙皇亚历山大重新加入大陆体系,然后他就可以回到中欧。他不需要占领任何东西。

If history has taught us one thing, occupying a country is more difficult than just invading one.
1808 - 1814: Napoleon found that out in the Iberian Peninsular as thousands of his soldiers died in Spain and Portugal.
Afghanistan became known as the graveyard of empires.
While the US could invade Vietnam, their ability to occupy it was limited by political opinion

如果历史有告诉我们一件事,那就是占领一个国家比仅仅入侵一个国家要困难得多。
1. 1808 - 1814年:拿破仑在伊比利亚半岛发现了这一点,成千上万的士兵死于西班牙和葡萄牙。
2. 阿富汗被称为帝国的墓地。
3. 虽然美国可以入侵越南,但他们占领越南的能力受到政治观点的限制。

 
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