为什么龙是中国文化的核心
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Claire Ferrand
My grandmother was born in Saigon in 1923 (when Vietnam, Laos and Cambodge were a french colony). We had to pass in front of her open door at night to go to the bathroom and were terrified of the dragon we heard growling at night in her room (you know the one she took with her from Vietnam). One day I was old enough to understand that she was just the loudest snorer.
我的祖母于1923年出生在西贡（当时越南、老挝和柬埔寨是法国的殖民地）。我们晚上必须从她敞开的门前经过才能上厕所，而且很害怕晚上在她房间里听到的龙的咆哮声（你知道她从越南带回来的那条）。有一天，我长大了，我才明白没有龙，只是她打鼾的声音巨响！
My grandmother was born in Saigon in 1923 (when Vietnam, Laos and Cambodge were a french colony). We had to pass in front of her open door at night to go to the bathroom and were terrified of the dragon we heard growling at night in her room (you know the one she took with her from Vietnam). One day I was old enough to understand that she was just the loudest snorer.
我的祖母于1923年出生在西贡（当时越南、老挝和柬埔寨是法国的殖民地）。我们晚上必须从她敞开的门前经过才能上厕所，而且很害怕晚上在她房间里听到的龙的咆哮声（你知道她从越南带回来的那条）。有一天，我长大了，我才明白没有龙，只是她打鼾的声音巨响！
margaret johnson
when my brother and i were very young our bedroom was down a long hall from my parents' bedroom. one night we heard a loud noise and thought a bear got into the house. so we carefully went down the long hall towards our parents' room to tell them there was a bear in the house. it was dad snoring.
当我和弟弟很小的时候，我们的卧室离父母的卧室有一条长长的走廊。有一天晚上，我们听到一声巨响，以为是一只熊进了屋子。于是我们小心翼翼地沿着长长的走廊走向父母的房间，告诉他们屋子里有一只熊。
when my brother and i were very young our bedroom was down a long hall from my parents' bedroom. one night we heard a loud noise and thought a bear got into the house. so we carefully went down the long hall towards our parents' room to tell them there was a bear in the house. it was dad snoring.
当我和弟弟很小的时候，我们的卧室离父母的卧室有一条长长的走廊。有一天晚上，我们听到一声巨响，以为是一只熊进了屋子。于是我们小心翼翼地沿着长长的走廊走向父母的房间，告诉他们屋子里有一只熊。
Iz Thistle
The depiction of dragons reflects the relationship between ancient Chinese and the environment a lot, especially water. Like ancient Egyptian and the Nile river, China have rivers affected by seasons, which would cause flooding. As a farming-based society, access to water and land is very important, so you can imagine how much impact those major rivers have.
龙的描绘在很大程度上反映了中国古代与环境，尤其是水的关系。与古埃及和尼罗河一样，中国的河流也会受到季节的影响，从而引发洪水。作为一个以农业为基础的社会，获得水和土地是非常重要的，所以你可以想象这些主要河流有多大的影响。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The depiction of dragons reflects the relationship between ancient Chinese and the environment a lot, especially water. Like ancient Egyptian and the Nile river, China have rivers affected by seasons, which would cause flooding. As a farming-based society, access to water and land is very important, so you can imagine how much impact those major rivers have.
龙的描绘在很大程度上反映了中国古代与环境，尤其是水的关系。与古埃及和尼罗河一样，中国的河流也会受到季节的影响，从而引发洪水。作为一个以农业为基础的社会，获得水和土地是非常重要的，所以你可以想象这些主要河流有多大的影响。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Iz Thistle
it is very much a thing though? Myths involving dragons exist before written history and the Legends of Mountains and Seas were finalized during Han dynasty which is 202 BC-220 AD. There’s also antiques from Shang dynasty depicting dragons which is from 1600 BC-1046 BC not to mention the robes of emperors with dragons from every dynasty. Even if you can change official historical records and folklores from every book you can’t change engravings and embroideries on items buried in tombs
它是非常重要的东西。涉及龙的神话在有文字记载的历史之前就已经存在，《山海经》是在汉代（公元前202年-公元220年）定稿的。还有商代描绘龙的古代遗迹，其时间在公元前1600年至公元前1046年间，更不用说每个朝代的皇帝的袍子上都有龙。即使你能改变官方的历史记录和每本书中的民间传说，你也不能改变埋在坟墓中的物品上的雕刻和刺绣。
it is very much a thing though? Myths involving dragons exist before written history and the Legends of Mountains and Seas were finalized during Han dynasty which is 202 BC-220 AD. There’s also antiques from Shang dynasty depicting dragons which is from 1600 BC-1046 BC not to mention the robes of emperors with dragons from every dynasty. Even if you can change official historical records and folklores from every book you can’t change engravings and embroideries on items buried in tombs
它是非常重要的东西。涉及龙的神话在有文字记载的历史之前就已经存在，《山海经》是在汉代（公元前202年-公元220年）定稿的。还有商代描绘龙的古代遗迹，其时间在公元前1600年至公元前1046年间，更不用说每个朝代的皇帝的袍子上都有龙。即使你能改变官方的历史记录和每本书中的民间传说，你也不能改变埋在坟墓中的物品上的雕刻和刺绣。
Angry Kittens
Except the ancestors of the ethnic (Sino-Tibetan) Han Chinese originate from the Huang He river in the far north. They weren't closely associated with water at all. They didn't have paddy technology, instead they planted dry-land millet and built half-sunken houses to protect against winter.
Paddy technology and rice domestication developed among the Yangtze civilizations during the late stone age (Neolithic). And these civilizations were not Chinese. They were the Hmong-Mien of the upper Yangtze and the pre-Austronesians of the Yangtze and Min river deltas (and Taiwan). As well as the Kra-Dai of the Pearl river delta, and the Mon-Khmer of the Mekong river delta.
They were cousins/ancestors of the Taiwanese Indigenous People, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Malagasy.
The Chinese called these people the "Baiyue" (literally "Hundred Barbarians"), and like modern Southeast Asians, their cultures were built around water. They were expert boatbuilders (Austronesians were the first humans to invent deep water maritime sailing ships, which was how they colonized Oceania and Madagascar), practiced wet (paddy) agriculture, built moats around their villages, practiced aquaculture, had tattoos, built houses raised on stilts, domesticated the water buffalo, duck, and chicken, and most importantly, they believed in supernatural water serpents.
The Chinese didn't conquer the Yangtze civilizations until around 500 BC during the Warring States period (the Yangtze civilzation was called "Yue" in Chinese records back then). They didn't reach the shores of the South China Sea until 200 BC during the southward expansion of the Han Dynasty.
It was only during this period that water/snake-like dragons (as opposed to the chimera dragons of the ancient Chinese) became prominent in Chinese mythology, making it likely they acquired it from the Baiyue.
They assimilated the technology of the Baiyue, including rice and riverine boats. But even then, since they pretty much exterminated the Baiyue, the absorption was incomplete. They didn't learn how to build bluewater ships until the Song Dynasty (~900 AD), and they did it by copying the ship designs of the (Austronesian) Srivijayan Empire of Indonesia.
China was NOT a water-centric civilization.
水稻种植技术在石器时代晚期(新石器时代)，在长江文明之间发展起来。这些文明都不是中国文明。他们是长江上游的苗族人和长江三角洲和闽江三角洲(以及台湾)的前南岛人，以及珠江三角洲的喀拉傣族和湄公河三角洲的孟高棉族。
他们是台湾原住民、东南亚人、太平洋岛民和马达加斯加人的表亲/祖先。
中国人称这些人为“百越”(字面意思是“一百个野蛮人”)，像现代东南亚人一样，他们的文化是围绕水建立的。他们是造船专家(南岛人是最早发明深水海上帆船的人类，这也是他们殖民大洋洲和马达加斯加的原因)，从事湿(水稻)农业，在他们的村庄周围建造护城河，从事水产养殖，有纹身，建造用高脚支撑的房子，驯养水牛、鸭子和鸡，最重要的是，他们相信超自然的水蛇。
中国人直到公元前500年左右的战国时期才征服了长江文明(长江文明在中国的记录中被称为“越”)。直到公元前200年汉朝向南扩张时，它们才到达中国南海海岸。
只是在这一时期，水龙/蛇龙在中国神话中变得突出，这可能是他们从百越获得的。
他们吸收了百越的技术，包括大米和河船。但即使如此，由于他们几乎灭绝了百越，吸收是不完整的。直到宋朝(约公元900年)，他们才学会如何建造远洋船只，他们是通过复制印度尼西亚(南岛岛)斯里维迦扬帝国的船舶设计来做到的。
中国不是一个以水为中心的文明。
译者注：感觉是个越南人在说梦话
Except the ancestors of the ethnic (Sino-Tibetan) Han Chinese originate from the Huang He river in the far north. They weren't closely associated with water at all. They didn't have paddy technology, instead they planted dry-land millet and built half-sunken houses to protect against winter.
Paddy technology and rice domestication developed among the Yangtze civilizations during the late stone age (Neolithic). And these civilizations were not Chinese. They were the Hmong-Mien of the upper Yangtze and the pre-Austronesians of the Yangtze and Min river deltas (and Taiwan). As well as the Kra-Dai of the Pearl river delta, and the Mon-Khmer of the Mekong river delta.
They were cousins/ancestors of the Taiwanese Indigenous People, Southeast Asians, Pacific Islanders, and Malagasy.
The Chinese called these people the "Baiyue" (literally "Hundred Barbarians"), and like modern Southeast Asians, their cultures were built around water. They were expert boatbuilders (Austronesians were the first humans to invent deep water maritime sailing ships, which was how they colonized Oceania and Madagascar), practiced wet (paddy) agriculture, built moats around their villages, practiced aquaculture, had tattoos, built houses raised on stilts, domesticated the water buffalo, duck, and chicken, and most importantly, they believed in supernatural water serpents.
The Chinese didn't conquer the Yangtze civilizations until around 500 BC during the Warring States period (the Yangtze civilzation was called "Yue" in Chinese records back then). They didn't reach the shores of the South China Sea until 200 BC during the southward expansion of the Han Dynasty.
It was only during this period that water/snake-like dragons (as opposed to the chimera dragons of the ancient Chinese) became prominent in Chinese mythology, making it likely they acquired it from the Baiyue.
They assimilated the technology of the Baiyue, including rice and riverine boats. But even then, since they pretty much exterminated the Baiyue, the absorption was incomplete. They didn't learn how to build bluewater ships until the Song Dynasty (~900 AD), and they did it by copying the ship designs of the (Austronesian) Srivijayan Empire of Indonesia.
China was NOT a water-centric civilization.
水稻种植技术在石器时代晚期(新石器时代)，在长江文明之间发展起来。这些文明都不是中国文明。他们是长江上游的苗族人和长江三角洲和闽江三角洲(以及台湾)的前南岛人，以及珠江三角洲的喀拉傣族和湄公河三角洲的孟高棉族。
他们是台湾原住民、东南亚人、太平洋岛民和马达加斯加人的表亲/祖先。
中国人称这些人为“百越”(字面意思是“一百个野蛮人”)，像现代东南亚人一样，他们的文化是围绕水建立的。他们是造船专家(南岛人是最早发明深水海上帆船的人类，这也是他们殖民大洋洲和马达加斯加的原因)，从事湿(水稻)农业，在他们的村庄周围建造护城河，从事水产养殖，有纹身，建造用高脚支撑的房子，驯养水牛、鸭子和鸡，最重要的是，他们相信超自然的水蛇。
中国人直到公元前500年左右的战国时期才征服了长江文明(长江文明在中国的记录中被称为“越”)。直到公元前200年汉朝向南扩张时，它们才到达中国南海海岸。
只是在这一时期，水龙/蛇龙在中国神话中变得突出，这可能是他们从百越获得的。
他们吸收了百越的技术，包括大米和河船。但即使如此，由于他们几乎灭绝了百越，吸收是不完整的。直到宋朝(约公元900年)，他们才学会如何建造远洋船只，他们是通过复制印度尼西亚(南岛岛)斯里维迦扬帝国的船舶设计来做到的。
中国不是一个以水为中心的文明。
译者注：感觉是个越南人在说梦话
Iz Thistle
@Angry Kittens I didn’t say Chinese culture is water-centric, just farming based. I also didn’t mention paddy field, the point is that farming requires being close to water, and the river overflow (which happens to a few major rivers) causes flooding which impacts people’s livelihood. Dragons are associated with rivers, which is why there’s a complex relationship between ancient Chinese and dragons and why they’re both worshipped and feared.
我没有说中国文化是以水为中心的，只是以农耕为基础。我也没有提到水田，关键是农耕需要靠近水，河水泛滥（这发生在几条主要河流上）导致洪水，影响人们的生活。龙与河流有关，这就是为什么古代中国人和龙之间有复杂的关系，以及为什么他们既被崇拜又被恐惧。
@Angry Kittens I didn’t say Chinese culture is water-centric, just farming based. I also didn’t mention paddy field, the point is that farming requires being close to water, and the river overflow (which happens to a few major rivers) causes flooding which impacts people’s livelihood. Dragons are associated with rivers, which is why there’s a complex relationship between ancient Chinese and dragons and why they’re both worshipped and feared.
我没有说中国文化是以水为中心的，只是以农耕为基础。我也没有提到水田，关键是农耕需要靠近水，河水泛滥（这发生在几条主要河流上）导致洪水，影响人们的生活。龙与河流有关，这就是为什么古代中国人和龙之间有复杂的关系，以及为什么他们既被崇拜又被恐惧。
hzhang1228
@Angry Kittens nice series of historical negationism lol.
the term Han is a very recent term and historically not used by "Han" people themselves but by foreign people. and they referred the all people of China proper first as people of central plain (aka middle kingdom) and later as Han. you are calling Chinese as ethnic Han before the Han dynasty even came about.
you say "Han" people are of the Yellow River civilization and you also say they are not closely associated with water at all. a civilization born out of a river and not associated with water is an oxymoron. Chinese people themselves called each other Hua people, aka Hua people of the Xia dynasty. and all the people of China proper refer to themselves as the decedents of the Flame and Yellow emperor, including people from Vietnam. carvings of Chinse serpentine dragon has been found in northern China dating back to 4000BCE. and the character has existed in the earliest oracle bone scxts of the Shang dynasty, depicting a serpentine dragon. not to mention the Hua people of Xia base their founding on Yu the great leading the people in subduing the river valleys and controlling flooding leading the kingdoms to prosperity. dragon is a borrowed word from the north not south.
you say China didn't conquer the Yangzi civilization until the warring states period is number one false since the Zhou dynasty had already held hegemony over the dukes of Yangzi river, secondly they were all part of China's history that is independent of any one individual state's border. ancient Greece had many city states and they are all collectively Greek. the Chinese did not call the Yangzi kingdoms as Yue people, but by their clan name, such as Wu and Chu, Yue was much further south. similarly people of Yue did not call people north Chinese or Han, but Wu, Chu and other clan/kingdom names. Yue did not stand for barbarians don't make stuff up.
you also say China learned how to build ships from SE Asia such as the Srivijaya empire, when it was know their success came from trading with China not the other way around. China was historically famous for ship building, the stern rudder, water tight bulkheads, and most importantly the compass. where is your source that China learned ship building from the Srivijaya empire?
不错的历史否定主义系列，哈哈。
“汉”这个词是一个很新的词，历史上不是“汉人”自己使用的，而是外国人使用的。他们把中国的所有人都称为中原人(又名中央王国)，后来称为汉人。在汉朝出现之前，你就把中国人称为汉族。
你说“汉人”是黄河文明的产物，你又说“汉人”与水的关系一点也不密切。从河流中诞生而与水无关的文明是一种矛盾修饰法。中国人彼此称对方为“华人”，即夏朝的“华人”。所有的中国人都称自己为炎黄子孙，包括越南人。在中国北方发现的蛇形龙雕刻可以追溯到公元前4000年。这个字在商代最早的甲骨文中就已经存在，描绘了一条蛇形的龙。更不用说夏朝的华人建立在大禹的基础上，带领人们征服了河谷，控制了洪水，使王国走向繁荣。龙这个词是从北方借来的，不是从南方借来的。
你说中国直到战国时期才征服了长江文明，这是一个错误，因为周朝已经对长江诸侯拥有霸权。其次，它们都是中国历史的一部分，是独立于任何一个国家边界的。就像古希腊有许多城邦，它们都是希腊人。中国人不称长江以南的人为越人，而是通过他们的氏族名称，如吴和楚，越人则更靠南。同样，越国的人也不叫他们北方人或汉人，而是叫吴、楚和其他氏族/王国的名字。越不代表蛮夷，不要胡编乱造。
你还说中国从东南亚学习了如何建造船只，比如斯里维查亚帝国，当时人们知道他们的成功来自与中国的贸易，而不是相反。中国在历史上以造船、船尾舵、防水舱壁以及最重要的指南针而闻名。中国从斯里维查亚帝国那里学会造船的消息来源是哪里?
@Angry Kittens nice series of historical negationism lol.
the term Han is a very recent term and historically not used by "Han" people themselves but by foreign people. and they referred the all people of China proper first as people of central plain (aka middle kingdom) and later as Han. you are calling Chinese as ethnic Han before the Han dynasty even came about.
you say "Han" people are of the Yellow River civilization and you also say they are not closely associated with water at all. a civilization born out of a river and not associated with water is an oxymoron. Chinese people themselves called each other Hua people, aka Hua people of the Xia dynasty. and all the people of China proper refer to themselves as the decedents of the Flame and Yellow emperor, including people from Vietnam. carvings of Chinse serpentine dragon has been found in northern China dating back to 4000BCE. and the character has existed in the earliest oracle bone scxts of the Shang dynasty, depicting a serpentine dragon. not to mention the Hua people of Xia base their founding on Yu the great leading the people in subduing the river valleys and controlling flooding leading the kingdoms to prosperity. dragon is a borrowed word from the north not south.
you say China didn't conquer the Yangzi civilization until the warring states period is number one false since the Zhou dynasty had already held hegemony over the dukes of Yangzi river, secondly they were all part of China's history that is independent of any one individual state's border. ancient Greece had many city states and they are all collectively Greek. the Chinese did not call the Yangzi kingdoms as Yue people, but by their clan name, such as Wu and Chu, Yue was much further south. similarly people of Yue did not call people north Chinese or Han, but Wu, Chu and other clan/kingdom names. Yue did not stand for barbarians don't make stuff up.
you also say China learned how to build ships from SE Asia such as the Srivijaya empire, when it was know their success came from trading with China not the other way around. China was historically famous for ship building, the stern rudder, water tight bulkheads, and most importantly the compass. where is your source that China learned ship building from the Srivijaya empire?
不错的历史否定主义系列，哈哈。
“汉”这个词是一个很新的词，历史上不是“汉人”自己使用的，而是外国人使用的。他们把中国的所有人都称为中原人(又名中央王国)，后来称为汉人。在汉朝出现之前，你就把中国人称为汉族。
你说“汉人”是黄河文明的产物，你又说“汉人”与水的关系一点也不密切。从河流中诞生而与水无关的文明是一种矛盾修饰法。中国人彼此称对方为“华人”，即夏朝的“华人”。所有的中国人都称自己为炎黄子孙，包括越南人。在中国北方发现的蛇形龙雕刻可以追溯到公元前4000年。这个字在商代最早的甲骨文中就已经存在，描绘了一条蛇形的龙。更不用说夏朝的华人建立在大禹的基础上，带领人们征服了河谷，控制了洪水，使王国走向繁荣。龙这个词是从北方借来的，不是从南方借来的。
你说中国直到战国时期才征服了长江文明，这是一个错误，因为周朝已经对长江诸侯拥有霸权。其次，它们都是中国历史的一部分，是独立于任何一个国家边界的。就像古希腊有许多城邦，它们都是希腊人。中国人不称长江以南的人为越人，而是通过他们的氏族名称，如吴和楚，越人则更靠南。同样，越国的人也不叫他们北方人或汉人，而是叫吴、楚和其他氏族/王国的名字。越不代表蛮夷，不要胡编乱造。
你还说中国从东南亚学习了如何建造船只，比如斯里维查亚帝国，当时人们知道他们的成功来自与中国的贸易，而不是相反。中国在历史上以造船、船尾舵、防水舱壁以及最重要的指南针而闻名。中国从斯里维查亚帝国那里学会造船的消息来源是哪里?
Dyllan freiheit
@Iz Thistle Yes, farming plays a crucial part in our history and it depends largely on water and rain. In drought years, farmers would pray and offer sacrifices to the dragon king to send more rain for their crops; while flood was considered as the consequence of a dragon's rage, thus more praying was needed. As you said, dragons were worshipped and feared at the same time with a good reason.
是的，农耕在我们的历史中起着至关重要的作用，它在很大程度上取决于水和雨。在干旱的年份，农民会向龙王祈祷并献上祭品，为他们的庄稼送来更多的雨水；而洪水则被认为是龙的愤怒的后果，因此需要更多的祈祷。正如你所说的，龙在被崇拜的同时也被惧怕，这是有原因的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@Iz Thistle Yes, farming plays a crucial part in our history and it depends largely on water and rain. In drought years, farmers would pray and offer sacrifices to the dragon king to send more rain for their crops; while flood was considered as the consequence of a dragon's rage, thus more praying was needed. As you said, dragons were worshipped and feared at the same time with a good reason.
是的，农耕在我们的历史中起着至关重要的作用，它在很大程度上取决于水和雨。在干旱的年份，农民会向龙王祈祷并献上祭品，为他们的庄稼送来更多的雨水；而洪水则被认为是龙的愤怒的后果，因此需要更多的祈祷。正如你所说的，龙在被崇拜的同时也被惧怕，这是有原因的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Winters
Learn a lot. Used to think that chinese dragon are more related to sea because of SEA 华侨 tend to have temple which worship dragon located at seaside or port area. Commonly accompanied with 妈祖 altar, and are worshipped by fishermen and aquaculture farmer.
学到了很多。以前认为中国的龙与海有很大关系，因为海华侨往往在海边或港口地区有供奉龙的庙宇。通常与妈祖祭坛相伴，被渔民和水产养殖者所崇拜。
Learn a lot. Used to think that chinese dragon are more related to sea because of SEA 华侨 tend to have temple which worship dragon located at seaside or port area. Commonly accompanied with 妈祖 altar, and are worshipped by fishermen and aquaculture farmer.
学到了很多。以前认为中国的龙与海有很大关系，因为海华侨往往在海边或港口地区有供奉龙的庙宇。通常与妈祖祭坛相伴，被渔民和水产养殖者所崇拜。
Crewmate WillThrowTheseHands
@Adora Tsang ummm, Ming emperors have dragons on their attire?
嗯，明朝皇帝的服饰上有龙的图案？
@Adora Tsang ummm, Ming emperors have dragons on their attire?
嗯，明朝皇帝的服饰上有龙的图案？
David Quek
@Adora Tsang Except pre-Qing dynasty Emperors had Dragons on their attire. Tang Dynasty Emperor has a Dragon on his robe. Liu Bang of Han claimed he was born from a Red Dragon. Nice try spreading lies.
不光清朝，以前皇帝的衣服上都有龙。唐朝皇帝的长袍上有一条龙。汉朝的刘邦声称自己是赤龙之子。散播谎言的想法不错。
译者注：貌似宋朝皇帝不穿龙袍
@Adora Tsang Except pre-Qing dynasty Emperors had Dragons on their attire. Tang Dynasty Emperor has a Dragon on his robe. Liu Bang of Han claimed he was born from a Red Dragon. Nice try spreading lies.
不光清朝，以前皇帝的衣服上都有龙。唐朝皇帝的长袍上有一条龙。汉朝的刘邦声称自己是赤龙之子。散播谎言的想法不错。
译者注：貌似宋朝皇帝不穿龙袍
Emile Chen
@Angry Kittens typically Vietnamese point of view,
典型的越南观点。
@Angry Kittens typically Vietnamese point of view,
典型的越南观点。
Angry Kittens
@Emile Chen I'm not Vietnamese. Try again with your racism. Everything I've said is factual and sourced. None of the sources are Vietnamese. If you can't argue academically, don't argue at all.
我不是越南人。再试试你的种族主义。我说的一切都是事实，都是有来源的，而且没有一个来源是来自越南人。如果你不能在学术上进行争论，那就根本不要争论。
@Emile Chen I'm not Vietnamese. Try again with your racism. Everything I've said is factual and sourced. None of the sources are Vietnamese. If you can't argue academically, don't argue at all.
我不是越南人。再试试你的种族主义。我说的一切都是事实，都是有来源的，而且没有一个来源是来自越南人。如果你不能在学术上进行争论，那就根本不要争论。
Just Some Guy with a Mustache
I will never not find it funny that there was a race between all of the animals, and the top 12 would become the Zodiac. And in this race, the dragon didn't come in second. It didn't even come in third. Or fourth. And first place went to the rat/mouse. So if you have any relatives who brag about being born the year of the dragon and you're a rat/mouse, you can hold that over them forever.
我永远不会不觉得好笑，所有的动物之间都有一场比赛，前12名将成为十二生肖。而在这场比赛中，龙并甚至连第二、第三、第四名都没有得到。而第一名是老鼠。因此，如果你有任何亲戚吹嘘自己是龙年出生的，而你是老鼠，你可以永远记住这一点。
I will never not find it funny that there was a race between all of the animals, and the top 12 would become the Zodiac. And in this race, the dragon didn't come in second. It didn't even come in third. Or fourth. And first place went to the rat/mouse. So if you have any relatives who brag about being born the year of the dragon and you're a rat/mouse, you can hold that over them forever.
我永远不会不觉得好笑，所有的动物之间都有一场比赛，前12名将成为十二生肖。而在这场比赛中，龙并甚至连第二、第三、第四名都没有得到。而第一名是老鼠。因此，如果你有任何亲戚吹嘘自己是龙年出生的，而你是老鼠，你可以永远记住这一点。
William Duan
according to the legend, the rat, asked the cow for a ride, promising to let the cow be the first place. The rat rode to the finish line on the cow's head, but when the finish line was near, he jumped off of the cow's head and claimed the number one spot lol.
I'm not sure how the cow feels about that
根据传说，老鼠请求牛载它一程，并答应让牛坐第一名。老鼠骑在牛头上到达终点线，但当终点线接近时，它从牛头上跳下来，夺得了第一名，哈哈。
我不知道母牛对此作何感想
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
according to the legend, the rat, asked the cow for a ride, promising to let the cow be the first place. The rat rode to the finish line on the cow's head, but when the finish line was near, he jumped off of the cow's head and claimed the number one spot lol.
I'm not sure how the cow feels about that
根据传说，老鼠请求牛载它一程，并答应让牛坐第一名。老鼠骑在牛头上到达终点线，但当终点线接近时，它从牛头上跳下来，夺得了第一名，哈哈。
我不知道母牛对此作何感想
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Tri N
as a person with a rat zodiac thanks
作为鼠年出生的人，我谢谢你
as a person with a rat zodiac thanks
作为鼠年出生的人，我谢谢你
ertj
From what I know, Dragon got 5th place because it had to finish it's weather controlling job first then came to the race.
据我所知，龙获得第五名是因为它必须先完成它的天气控制工作，然后才能参加比赛。
From what I know, Dragon got 5th place because it had to finish it's weather controlling job first then came to the race.
据我所知，龙获得第五名是因为它必须先完成它的天气控制工作，然后才能参加比赛。
MariaVosa
@William Duan Being born in the year of the Ox, I can tell you we are mightliy miffed!
我出生在牛年，我可以告诉你我们非常生气！
@William Duan Being born in the year of the Ox, I can tell you we are mightliy miffed!
我出生在牛年，我可以告诉你我们非常生气！
aprilmae june
@William Duan Funnily, there is another version of the myth where the rat actually struck a deal with the cat and rode on the cat's head during the race but towards to finish line the rat jumped off the cat and onto the other animals in front, thus landing first past the finish line. It helps to explain the eternal enmity between cats and mice/rats due to the rat's betrayal of the cat's trust
有趣的是，在这个神话的另一个版本中，老鼠实际上与猫达成了协议，并在比赛中骑在了猫的头上，但在接近终点时，老鼠从猫身上跳下来，跳到了前面的其他动物身上，从而第一个通过了终点线。这有助于解释猫和老鼠之间由于老鼠背叛了猫的信任而产生的永恒的敌意。
@William Duan Funnily, there is another version of the myth where the rat actually struck a deal with the cat and rode on the cat's head during the race but towards to finish line the rat jumped off the cat and onto the other animals in front, thus landing first past the finish line. It helps to explain the eternal enmity between cats and mice/rats due to the rat's betrayal of the cat's trust
有趣的是，在这个神话的另一个版本中，老鼠实际上与猫达成了协议，并在比赛中骑在了猫的头上，但在接近终点时，老鼠从猫身上跳下来，跳到了前面的其他动物身上，从而第一个通过了终点线。这有助于解释猫和老鼠之间由于老鼠背叛了猫的信任而产生的永恒的敌意。
Alyssa Heike
@elmohead The dragon wasn't actually helping animals. A village was on fire and he stopped to put out the fire for the people before continuing the race.
这条龙其实并不是在帮助动物。一个村庄着火了，他停下来为人们救火，然后继续比赛。
@elmohead The dragon wasn't actually helping animals. A village was on fire and he stopped to put out the fire for the people before continuing the race.
这条龙其实并不是在帮助动物。一个村庄着火了，他停下来为人们救火，然后继续比赛。
Mike Gould
Dragons. One of the worldwide shared monsters. Every culture, including indigenous, has them. Along with giants, shape shifters, undead, spirits, demons, and "witches" (aka evil sorcerers), they compose the core of our shared monster mythology.
龙。全世界共有的怪物之一。每一种文化，包括土著文化，都有它们。他们与巨人、变形人、亡灵、灵魂、恶魔和“女巫”(又名邪恶的巫师)一起构成了我们共同的怪物神话的核心。
Dragons. One of the worldwide shared monsters. Every culture, including indigenous, has them. Along with giants, shape shifters, undead, spirits, demons, and "witches" (aka evil sorcerers), they compose the core of our shared monster mythology.
龙。全世界共有的怪物之一。每一种文化，包括土著文化，都有它们。他们与巨人、变形人、亡灵、灵魂、恶魔和“女巫”(又名邪恶的巫师)一起构成了我们共同的怪物神话的核心。
Mike Tan
Dragons are not monsters in Chinese culture. They're divine entities
在中国文化中，龙不是怪兽。他们是神圣的实体。
Dragons are not monsters in Chinese culture. They're divine entities
在中国文化中，龙不是怪兽。他们是神圣的实体。
Mark Chan
@Mike Tan Chinese Long and western dragon are 2 different mythological creatures. The cause of this confusion is when westerner translated Long as dragon. There is no word for Chinese Long in English.
中国的龙和西方的龙是两种不同的神话生物。造成这种混淆的原因是，西方人将龙翻译成了龙。在英语中没有中国龙这个词。
@Mike Tan Chinese Long and western dragon are 2 different mythological creatures. The cause of this confusion is when westerner translated Long as dragon. There is no word for Chinese Long in English.
中国的龙和西方的龙是两种不同的神话生物。造成这种混淆的原因是，西方人将龙翻译成了龙。在英语中没有中国龙这个词。
C.L. Wu
@Mark Chan no, they have same origin，it is just a common snake-worship around world. then they develop to various appearance(Some Chinese dragon have wings, like Yinglong and some western dragon have no-wings, like Fafnir), btw european begin to think dragon is evil just because chrsitian dont like this pagan thing
不，他们有相同的起源，这只是全世界共同的蛇崇拜，然后他们发展成不同的外观（一些中国龙有翅膀，如应龙，一些西方龙没有翅膀，如Fafnir），同时欧洲人开始认为龙是邪恶的，只是因为基督教不喜欢这种异教徒的东西。
@Mark Chan no, they have same origin，it is just a common snake-worship around world. then they develop to various appearance(Some Chinese dragon have wings, like Yinglong and some western dragon have no-wings, like Fafnir), btw european begin to think dragon is evil just because chrsitian dont like this pagan thing
不，他们有相同的起源，这只是全世界共同的蛇崇拜，然后他们发展成不同的外观（一些中国龙有翅膀，如应龙，一些西方龙没有翅膀，如Fafnir），同时欧洲人开始认为龙是邪恶的，只是因为基督教不喜欢这种异教徒的东西。
skurvay
There were also Dragon-Hybrids in Chinese Mythology that later traveled to the Mythologies of Other Asian Countries as well, such as the 'Longma' - depicted as a Horse with Dragon-like attributes, or the China 'Qilin'(Japan & Korea 'Kirin' or 'Girin', Thailand 'Gilin', Vietnam 'Ky-Lan'), a Chimera-like creature often referred to as the 'Chinese Unicorn', though in some depictions it leans more towards being a Dragon-like Deer.
中国神话中也有龙的混血儿，后来也传到其他亚洲国家的神话中，例如“龙马”——被描绘成具有龙属性的马，或中国的“麒麟”，（日本和韩国） Kirin' 或 'Girin'，泰国的 'Gilin'，越南的 'Ky-Lan'），一种类似奇美拉的生物，通常被称为“中国独角兽”，尽管在某些描述中它更倾向于成为像龙一样的鹿。
There were also Dragon-Hybrids in Chinese Mythology that later traveled to the Mythologies of Other Asian Countries as well, such as the 'Longma' - depicted as a Horse with Dragon-like attributes, or the China 'Qilin'(Japan & Korea 'Kirin' or 'Girin', Thailand 'Gilin', Vietnam 'Ky-Lan'), a Chimera-like creature often referred to as the 'Chinese Unicorn', though in some depictions it leans more towards being a Dragon-like Deer.
中国神话中也有龙的混血儿，后来也传到其他亚洲国家的神话中，例如“龙马”——被描绘成具有龙属性的马，或中国的“麒麟”，（日本和韩国） Kirin' 或 'Girin'，泰国的 'Gilin'，越南的 'Ky-Lan'），一种类似奇美拉的生物，通常被称为“中国独角兽”，尽管在某些描述中它更倾向于成为像龙一样的鹿。
sam will
This really does make me wonder how/why we call these two separate things dragons in the first place. Other than being powerful, arcane elemental beasts (and even the word beast feels inappropriate for the eastern fashion of dragon) they have nearly nothing in common, they are only both called dragons because we've all agreed that they are despite them having nothing to say they're at all lixed. The presence of wings, their role in stories, their ability to control the weather, their ability to breathe a weapon of one element or another. One kind of dragon has these things and the other doesn't. It makes me wonder whatever they might have in common.
这真的让我想知道，为什么我们把这两个不同的东西称为龙。除了都是强大的神秘元素野兽(甚至野兽这个词对东方的龙来说都不合适)，他们几乎没有任何共同之处，他们都被称为龙，因为我们都认为他们是龙，尽管他们没有任何联系。翅膀的存在，它们在故事中的角色，它们控制天气的能力，它们呼吸的能力，一种或另一种元素的武器。一种龙有这些东西，另一种没有。这让我想知道他们是否有共同之处。
This really does make me wonder how/why we call these two separate things dragons in the first place. Other than being powerful, arcane elemental beasts (and even the word beast feels inappropriate for the eastern fashion of dragon) they have nearly nothing in common, they are only both called dragons because we've all agreed that they are despite them having nothing to say they're at all lixed. The presence of wings, their role in stories, their ability to control the weather, their ability to breathe a weapon of one element or another. One kind of dragon has these things and the other doesn't. It makes me wonder whatever they might have in common.
这真的让我想知道，为什么我们把这两个不同的东西称为龙。除了都是强大的神秘元素野兽(甚至野兽这个词对东方的龙来说都不合适)，他们几乎没有任何共同之处，他们都被称为龙，因为我们都认为他们是龙，尽管他们没有任何联系。翅膀的存在，它们在故事中的角色，它们控制天气的能力，它们呼吸的能力，一种或另一种元素的武器。一种龙有这些东西，另一种没有。这让我想知道他们是否有共同之处。
Chrome Orihara
From what I remember, a Westerner who came to China called them dragons because to him, that was what they most closely resembled. The name then stuck and they've been called dragons in English ever since.
在我的记忆中，一个来到中国的西方人称它们为龙，因为对他来说，那是它们最相似的东西。然后这个名字就被记住了，从那时起，它们在英语中就被称为龙了。
From what I remember, a Westerner who came to China called them dragons because to him, that was what they most closely resembled. The name then stuck and they've been called dragons in English ever since.
在我的记忆中，一个来到中国的西方人称它们为龙，因为对他来说，那是它们最相似的东西。然后这个名字就被记住了，从那时起，它们在英语中就被称为龙了。
Hiroko Kueh
it's just different languages work differently. like baozi is considered as dumpling by English speakers, but many Chinese would argue that only jiaozi can be called dumpling, ignore the fact that the concept of "dumpling" is different from jiaozi. the word Long also contains some non-dragon creatures, like dinosaurs or chameleons.
只是不同的语言工作方式不同。就像说英语的人认为包子是饺子，但许多中国人会认为只有饺子才能被称为饺子，忽视了“饺子”和“饺子”的概念不同的事实。龙这个词也包含一些非龙的生物，如恐龙或变色龙。
it's just different languages work differently. like baozi is considered as dumpling by English speakers, but many Chinese would argue that only jiaozi can be called dumpling, ignore the fact that the concept of "dumpling" is different from jiaozi. the word Long also contains some non-dragon creatures, like dinosaurs or chameleons.
只是不同的语言工作方式不同。就像说英语的人认为包子是饺子，但许多中国人会认为只有饺子才能被称为饺子，忽视了“饺子”和“饺子”的概念不同的事实。龙这个词也包含一些非龙的生物，如恐龙或变色龙。
Ares Myers
I love that in eastern cultures the dragon is respected. In European cultures it’s always looked at as a monster. Dragons have always been my favorite mythical creature
我喜欢在东方文化中，龙受到尊重。在欧洲文化中，它总是被看作是一种怪物。龙一直是我最喜欢的神话生物。
I love that in eastern cultures the dragon is respected. In European cultures it’s always looked at as a monster. Dragons have always been my favorite mythical creature
我喜欢在东方文化中，龙受到尊重。在欧洲文化中，它总是被看作是一种怪物。龙一直是我最喜欢的神话生物。
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