欧洲妹子来中国学习遭遇文化冲击:内衣到底能不能和其他衣服一起放在洗衣机洗?(下)
2023-12-01 兰陵笑笑生 9255
正文翻译
Is it actually unhygienic to wash underwear in the washing machine or just a cultural thing?

用洗衣机洗内衣真的不卫生还是只是一种文化现象?

评论翻译
MaxLivesInChina
Nobody believes that soap and hot water kills bacteria in underwear and other clothes. They are wrong. You’re free to show her evidence (I think the magic number is only like 65C water kills nearly everything) but she won’t accept it. You could also point out that you’ve been doing it this way your whole life, like everyone in Europe and the US, and do not seem to have any kind of health problems whatsoever. This will also be wrong, because Chinese physiology is not the same. You could get a mini washer for 700 rmb or so that can do hot water washing to just side step the whole thing or put bleach in as well for added “protection” but generally there is no winning these arguments. Facts are irrelevant.

没有人相信肥皂和热水能杀死内衣和其他衣物中的细菌。他们错了。你可以向她展示证据(我认为神奇的是 65 摄氏度的水几乎可以杀死所有东西),但她不会接受。你也可以指出,你一生都是这样做的,就像欧洲和美国的每个人一样,而且似乎没有任何健康问题。这也会被否决,因为中国人的体质不一样。你可以花 700 元左右买一台可以用热水洗的迷你洗衣机,这样就可以从侧面解决这个问题,或者也可以放漂白剂来增加“保护”,但一般来说,这些争论是没有赢家的。事实并不重要。

gandhi_theft
Many of them still have a poor mans mentality even when they live in somewhat developed urban environments. I was going to say peasant but it’s a bit mean

即使他们生活在较为发达的城市环境中,他们中的许多人仍然抱有穷人的心态。我本来想说农民,但有点刻薄

PreparationSilver798
Yeah Chinese people do this. It's a weird nonsense to be honest but they have a lot of beliefs that are entirely separate from wider logical enquiry and are simply traditions/ conventions. It's pointless arguing about it because they won't change their mind. You only lose by engaging in this fight

是的,中国人就是这样。老实说,这是一种奇怪的无稽之谈,但他们有很多信仰完全独立于更广泛的逻辑探索,只是传统/惯例而已。争论毫无意义,因为他们不会改变主意。参加这场战斗你只会输

_Zambayoshi_
Yep, like needing to eat more the longer your hair gets (because hair needs food to keep growing?) or needing to eat certain foods when the weather is cold (to warm up your body) to never drinking cold water (because it will make you catch cold easily!) There are many, many more. Thankfully, my wife has largely learned better after living overseas for 15+ years.

没错,比如头发越长需要吃得越多(因为头发需要食物来不断生长?),或者天气冷的时候需要吃某些食物(让身体暖和起来),再比如千万不要喝凉水(因为会让你容易感冒!)还有很多很多。值得庆幸的是,我的妻子在海外生活了 15 年以上,基本上懂得更多了。
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[dexed]
So it's okay to burp and fart and cough on people in public but underwear can't be put in a washing machine? ok lol

那么,在公共场合对着人打嗝、放屁、咳嗽是可以的,但内衣就是不能放进洗衣机?好吧,哈哈

tocksickman
Ordinary laundering at 60 degrees Celsius for 10 minutes reduces the total bacterial load by 99.99999% (Lakdawala 2011). I haven’t seen one study that suggests that women’s underwear, if washed properly, poses any more of a contamination risk than any other clothing types. Then again, I don’t get the impression that this belief is rooted in any sort of appreciation for scientific evidence on the issue, or an understanding of the burden of proof upon them to back up their claims, but instead seems to reflect a belief common to many traditional societies that human and in particular female genitalia are somehow exceedingly unclean compared to other parts of the human body (feet, skin, etc). This sort of thinking is not unusual—you find it in South Asia, the Middle East, sub Saharan Africa and a range of indigenous societies globally, but it doesn’t stand up to rigorous scientific evidence.
There also seems to be an oddly sextive concern about the contamination risks of sharing a washing machine used to clean girls underwear, when in reality all clothing and numerous surfaces in our environment harbor some incredibly harmful bacteria and viruses. Why go through all that effort to achieve near-sterilization of underwear given the ubiquity of bacteria and viruses in the broader environment?
Lastly the talk about STDs is surprising and perhaps indicative of the broader motives at play. Nobody gets STDs from someone using your laundry machine. Anyone who says they got an STD from laundry is cheating and trying desperately to hide it.

在 60 摄氏度下普通洗涤 10 分钟,可减少 99.99999% 的细菌总量(Lakdawala,2011 年)。我还没有看到任何一项研究表明,女性内衣如果洗涤得当,会比其他类型的衣物带来更大的污染风险。不过,给我的印象是,这种观念并不是源于对相关科学证据的重视,也不是源于对证明其主张的举证责任的理解,而是似乎反映了许多传统社会的共同信念,即与人体的其他部位(脚、皮肤等)相比,人类尤其是女性的生殖器在某种程度上是极其不洁的。这种想法并不罕见--你可以在全球南方、中东、撒哈拉以南非洲和一系列土著社会中找到这种想法,但它经不起严格的科学证据的检验。
此外,人们似乎对共用洗衣机清洗女孩内衣的污染风险有一种奇怪的选择性担忧,而实际上,我们环境中的所有衣物和许多表面都蕴藏着一些极其有害的细菌和病毒。既然细菌和病毒在更广泛的环境中无处不在,为什么还要费尽心机去实现内衣裤的近乎消毒呢?
最后,关于性传播疾病的讨论令人吃惊,这或许表明了更广泛的动机。没有人会因为别人使用你的洗衣机而染上性病。任何说自己因洗衣而染上性病的人都是在欺骗和极力隐瞒事实。

Calouma
OP
My mind also quickly jumped to the conclusion that she somehow considers women’s underwear to be much dirtier than anything else. Which seems just so weird to me, because how many times do we touch something dirty with our hands (like public bathroom door handles, railings, our phones) and then put them on our clothes? Or we step into a puddle and the dirty water gets into our shoes?
She also mentioned our periods as one of the reasons when I asked why she considers our underwear so dirty…
It actually makes me quite angry in general whenever I hear someone talk about women like they are inferior/dirty, for example also the way women on their period (sometimes also in general) are not allowed to enter certain religious spaces or how periods are still a big taboo in some areas, or how virginity is such a big deal for women etc.

我也是马上就想到,她是不是认为女性内衣比其他任何东西都脏。这在我看来实在是太奇怪了,因为我们有多少次会用手接触脏东西(比如公共浴室的门把手、栏杆、手机),然后再把它们放到衣服上?或者我们一脚踩进水坑,脏水就进了我们的鞋子?
当我问到为什么她认为我们的内裤那么脏时,她还提到我们的经期是原因之一......
实际上,每当我听到有人把女性说得低人一等/肮脏不堪时,我都会非常生气,例如,来月经的女性(有时也包括一般女性)不能进入某些宗教场所,或者月经在某些地区仍然是一个大禁忌,或者贞操对女性来说是多么重要等等。

tocksickman
I totally agree. I’m a man but I have several daughters at that age, and I do find it sexist to suggest that somehow women’s clothing is dirtier and unsuitable to be co-mingled with other types of clothing.

我完全同意。我是一个男人,但我有几个你这个年纪的女儿,我确实觉得认为女性的衣服更脏并且不适合与其他类型的衣服混合是性别歧视。

T-Rextify
Common in Southeast Asia (not sure about China) is that women's underwear must washed, hung out to dry, and even put in a separate place in the house.
The reason, it's believed is women menstruate, and it is so powerful it could harm the males!

在东南亚(不太清楚中国)的普遍现象是,女性的内衣必须清洗、挂起来晾干,甚至要放在屋内单独的地方。
原因据说是女性会来月经,它的威力如此之大,甚至可以伤害男性!

Changeup2020
Not sure about Chinese culture, but I see people from all cultural ground arguing what should or should not be wash together in the washer.
I belong to the camp “anything you wear other than the shoes can go into the washer together”.

我不清楚中国的文化,但我看到来自各种文化背景的人都在争论什么东西应该或不应该一起放进洗衣机里洗。
我属于“除了鞋以外,你穿的任何衣服都可以一起放进洗衣机”的阵营。

RoninBelt
Scientifically there is evidence that bacteria transfer between clothing and fabric especially in low temp cycles... but that's within the same wash.
If a washing machine is kept properly, ie a commercial cleaning solution is added every few weeks using the machines own deep clean cycle then it's brought down to a minimum.
If there is a lot of concern then a hot wash full cycle can be used inbetween as that all but guarantees sterilizing.

科学上有证据表明,细菌会在衣物和织物之间转移,尤其是在低温循环中......但是在同一次洗涤中。
如果洗衣机保养得当,即每隔几周使用洗衣机自带的深层清洁循环添加一次商用清洁溶液,就能将细菌数量降到最低。
如果真的很担心,那么可以在两次洗涤之间使用热洗涤全循环,这样就能保证杀菌效果。

33manat33
Okay, here's something that actually happened to me. I always wash all my stuff together, but I had a problem a few years ago, where I got weird rashes... where you don't want them. That's when I learned about these anti-bacterial laundry sanitizers. APPARENTLY (never checked if true) European washing powders come with the anti-bacterial element added in, but in China some brands don't. I started adding sanitizer and the problem went away. But I also got rid of my China-bought pants at the time, because they turned my legs blue and I suspected them as well.

好吧,这是发生在我身上的一件事。我总是把所有的东西放在一起洗,但几年前我遇到了一个问题,我的衣服上起了奇怪的疹子......在你不想要的地方。就在那时,我知道了这些抗菌洗衣消毒剂。欧洲的洗衣粉中显然添加了抗菌成分(从未核实过是否属实),但在中国,有些品牌却没有。我开始添加消毒剂后,问题就解决了。但当时我也扔掉了在中国买的裤子,因为它们把我的腿染成了蓝色,我也怀疑是它们的问题。

Calouma
OP
Yea, someone else suggested Dettol, I think I’ll definitely buy that just to be on the safe side. I also don’t really know about whether European laundry already is anti-bacterial in the first place, but I washed all my clothes in the public washer of my previous student dorm for years and never had any issue whatsoever.

是的,有人建议用 Dettol,我想为了保险起见,我肯定会买的。我也不知道欧洲人洗的衣服是否本来就有抗菌功能,但我在以前学生宿舍的公共洗衣机里洗了很多年衣服,从来没有出现过任何问题。

TamarindTycoon
This might be as much a Burmese taboo as it is a Chinese one! In Myanmar, it is VERY taboo to mix undergarments, especially those between men and women, because of a widespread belief that mixing of soiled clothes can emasculate a man — it's called 'phon' (ဘုန်း) in Burmese. This is why women's sarongs were weaponised against soldiers during the 2021 anti-coup protests in Myanmar.
Women in Myanmar are all taught to handwash their underwear separately from the rest of the clothes, especially after they begin menstruating. So this must be a huge culture shock to your roommate, as it is to you!

这可能是缅甸人的禁忌,也是中国人的禁忌!在缅甸,内衣混着是非常忌讳的,尤其是男女之间的内衣混在一起,因为缅甸人普遍认为,混着脏衣服会让男人失去男子气概--缅甸语称之为“phon”(ဘုန်း)。这就是为什么在 2021 年缅甸反政变抗议活动中,妇女的纱笼被用作对付士兵的武器。
缅甸妇女都被教育要将内衣与其他衣物分开手洗,尤其是在月经来潮之后。因此,混着来洗对你的室友来说的文化冲击不亚于你感受到的!

SuLiaodai
I haven't heard that, but local people have told me to always wash it separately because it keeps the germs from "outside clothing" from getting onto the underwear. I was also advised to put some laundry sanitizer like Dettol or Walsh in with underwear. Actually, they gave me this advice when I kept getting UTIs, and after I started doing this, I don't think I've gotten one since.
Do you think she would relent if you'd wash your underwear with both detergent and Dettol? Then she wouldn't have to feel like there were germs left behind by them.

我没听说过,但当地人告诉我一定要分开洗,因为这样可以防止“外衣”上的细菌感染内衣。他们还建议我在内衣里放一些洗衣消毒剂,如 Dettol 或 Walsh。事实上,他们是在我不断得尿道炎时给我这个建议的,自从我开始这样做后,我想我再也没有得过尿道炎。
如果你用洗衣粉和 Dettol 洗内裤,不知道她会不会释怀一点?这样她就不会觉得内衣上有细菌了。

Wrong_Detective3136
My partner (Filipina) has rules about washing underwear by hand and not washing socks with other articles. I used to just separate our laundry into whites and colors. Now I separate them into his and hers and we each just wash our own.

我的伴侣(菲律宾人)规定内衣要用手洗,袜子不能和其他物品一起洗。我以前只是把我们洗的衣服分成白色和彩色。现在我把它们分成他的和她的,我们各洗各的。

[dexed]
Haha I thought this was just a Caribbean thing but I guess not. This is definitely cultural but you probably can’t convince this person of that

哈哈,我还以为这只是加勒比地区的事情,但看来不是。这绝对是一种文化,但你可能无法让这个人相信这一点

Acceptable-Swan-472
Funnily enough, this caused WWIII between me and my in-laws. When my wife and I arrived in China they noticed I would leave my underwear in the dirty clothes hamper. They started a big fight about how I would give my wife UTI’s and infections and how I was terrible. They would literally bring it up any chance they’d get, then after my wife explained to them that she hasn’t had any UTI’s or infections and we’ve been living together for 5 years, they cooled down a bit. Eventually we bought a washing machine that has a separate washer for underwear so they’d shut up. lol, at first they were upset we used a dryer until they tried our and realized how convenient it was and bought their own. Sometimes people just like starting shit.

有趣的是,这件事引起了我和岳父母之间的第三次世界大战。我和妻子刚到中国时,他们发现我会把内裤放在脏衣服篮里。他们开始大吵大闹,说我会让我妻子得尿毒症和感染,说我这个人有多糟糕。后来我妻子向他们解释说,她没有得过尿毒症或感染,而且我们已经在一起生活了 5 年,他们才稍微冷静下来。最后,我们买了一台洗衣机,它有一个单独的内衣洗衣机,这样他们就会闭嘴了。起初,他们对我们使用烘干机很不高兴,直到他们试过我们的烘干机后才意识到它有多方便,于是就自己买了一台。有时候,人们就是喜欢没事找事。

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