为什么中国佛教徒似乎更相信观世音菩萨,甚至比相信释迦牟尼佛还要多?谁是印度教中与她相对应的神?我发现,除了东亚以外,几乎没有哪个国家的佛教徒这样做。那么,中国是异教徒吗?
2024-03-29 Aya Shawn 13200
正文翻译
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Aya Shawn
Living in Singapore, professional investor
Some answers focus on the differences between Mahayana Buddhism, Theravada Buddhism, and Tibetan Buddhism.
I think this is incorrect
Avalokitesvara is a special existence in China and has little to do with Buddhist sects.
Although Mahayana Buddhism is mainly popular in China, Avalokitesvara does not have these unique statuses in other countries that believe in Mahayana Buddhism.

有些答案集中讨论了大乘佛教、小乘佛教和藏传佛教之间的区别。
我认为这是不正确的
观世音菩萨是中国的一个特殊存在,与佛教宗派关系不大。
虽然大乘佛教主要盛行于中国,但是观世音菩萨在其他信奉大乘佛教的国家并不具有这些独特的地位。

The specialization of Avalokitesvara in China actually comes from China's transformation of Buddhism, or the changes that naturally occurred during the integration of Buddhism into China. I call it the "Sinicization of Buddhism",OR "Chinese Buddhism"
Sakyamuni can be considered the supreme god in Buddhism. He expounded the truth of the Buddhist world, the philosophy of the Buddhist world, and the world view of the Buddhist world.

观世音菩萨在中国的特殊化,其实是源自佛教在中国的转型,或者说佛教融入中国过程中自然发生的变化。我称之为“佛教中国化”或者"中国佛教"
释迦牟尼可以说是佛教中最高的神,他阐述了佛教世界的真理、佛教世界的哲学、佛教世界的世界观。

However, Gautama Buddha was more like a philosopher and a teacher. His image is far removed from people's lives. Buddhist believers in China will worship Sakyamuni, recite scxtures and pray. But in all the Buddhist scxtures, there are very few interactions between Sakyamuni and ordinary people. He tells people more: "How should you manage yourself, practice for your own spiritual world, and help others instead of asking for help from others?"

但释迦牟尼佛更像是一位哲学家、一位导师,他的形象离人们的生活很远。中国佛教信徒会顶礼释迦牟尼、诵经祈祷,但在全部佛经中,释迦牟尼佛与普通人的互动却非常少。他更多的是告诉人们:“自己应该如何管理自己,为自己的精神世界修行,帮助别人,而不是向别人求助”。

But in the real world, there are always many people who are helpless and need specific help.
The infertile wife wants to have children, the old man who cannot find his son wants to know if his son is still alive, the sick man wants to be healthy, the student wants to get good grades in the imperial examination, the fisherman wants to avoid shipwreck, and the farmer wants good weather.

但在现实世界中,总有许多人无助,需要特定的帮助。
不孕的妻子想要有孩子,找不到儿子的老人想要知道儿子是否还活着,病人想要身体健康,书生想要在科举考试中取得好成绩,渔夫想要避免沉船,农夫想要风调雨顺。

In the Buddhist system, Gautama Buddha does not provide corresponding solutions, which creates a flaw. China's native Taoism is very good at this kind of thing.I think this is an inherent flaw in Buddhism from India. Too much emphasis on "patience and introspection" and neglect of "giving and help"

在佛教体系中,释迦牟尼佛没有给出相应的解决办法,这就造成了一个缺陷,而中国本土的道教在这种事情上做得很好。
我想,这是这种来自印度的宗教自身存在的先天缺陷,过于强调“忍耐,自省”,而忽略了“给予和帮助”

The Chinese are essentially educated in Confucianism, and they are the most secular civilization in the world. The spread of Buddhism in China, which is entirely based on ideological practice, is bound to encounter challenges. They need a character to solve these problems.

中国人本质上受的是儒家教育,是世界上最世俗化的文明,而佛教在中国的传播,完全基于唯心主义的实践,这必然会遭遇挑战,他们需要一个人物来解决这些问题。


Early image of Avalokitesvara, from original Indian (Nepal) Buddhism

这是观世音菩萨的早期形象,源自原始印度(尼泊尔)佛教

Avalokitesvara was chosen, and they began to absorb Taoist ideas and make Buddhism more "practical"
Avalokitesvara becomes a goddess who “responds to secular prayers”

观世音菩萨被选中了,他们开始吸收道教思想,使佛教更加“实用”
观世音菩萨成为“回应世俗祈祷”的女神


In China, Avalokitesvara gradually became the image of a Chinese goddess

在中国,观世音菩萨逐渐转变为中式女神的形象

Hundreds of years after Buddhism entered China, various images of Avalokitesvara began to appear. So far, 33 different images of Guanyin(Avalokitesvara) have appeared in China.
As a wife who is infertile, you can pray to "Guanyin(Avalokitesvara) for children"

佛教传入中国几百年后,各种观世音菩萨的形象开始出现,至今在中国已出现33种不同的观世音菩萨形象。
作为不孕的妻子,你可以向“送子观音祈求子嗣”

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


People who are sick can pray to the "Medicine-Applying Guanyin"
Farmers pray to “Willow Guanyin” because she governs climate
Students pray to “Guanyin holding scxture” because she is in charge of education
When a loved one dies, pray to “ White clothes Guanyin”, because she is responsible for sending the soul to the paradise world.
Bridal services pray to the “Fish Basket Guanyin” as she is Wesponsible for marriage and happiness

有病的人可以拜“施药观音”
农民敬拜“杨柳观音”,因为她掌管气候
学生们向“持经观音”祈祷,因为她主管教育
当亲人去世时,要向“白衣观音”祈祷,因为她负责送灵魂去极乐世界。
婚礼上会向“鱼篮观音”祈求,因为她掌管婚姻和幸福

Buddha provides ideas, Avalokitesvara provides practical help
This is why in China, Avalokitesvara tends to be worshiped more
All this has nothing to do with Buddhist sects, it depends on Chinese culture, Chinese people’s thoughts and needs
Religion can change people, but people can also change religions

佛陀提供思路,观世音菩萨提供实际帮助
这就是为什么在中国,观世音菩萨更受崇拜
这一切与佛教宗派无关,这取决于中国文化、中国人的思想和需要
宗教可以改变人,但人也可以改变宗教

评论翻译
@Oisin Machine Monster
Buddha was born into a small tribal clan known as the Shakya in South Asia subcontinent. The scxtures of Buddhism was actually written down much later, after Buddha's death, and it began to spread via the Chinese-made Silk Route when Central Asian such as Yeuzi or Kushan began governing Northern India and substantial intercultural interactions started to occur in the Central Asian regions.

佛祖出生于南亚次大陆一个名为沙迦的小部落。佛教的经文实际上是在佛死后很久才被写下来的,当大月氏或贵霜帝国等中亚国家开始统治印度北部,中亚地区开始发生实质性的跨文化互动时,佛教开始通过中国制造的丝绸之路传播。

@Margaret Loo
As I was understand it, Avalokitesvara is an emanation of the Amitabha Buddha, a sign of the Buddha’s compassion and an emanation that is visible to ordinary humans and made to assist ordinary humans on their search and path towards “Nirvana”. The Tibetan form is known as Chenrezig (Avalokitesvara starts out as male), transforms to Kuan yin in China (female) and becomes Kannon ( male) in Japan.

据我所知,观世音是佛的一种延申,是佛慈悲的象征,是普通人可见的一种延申,旨在帮助普通人寻找和走向“涅盘”。藏传佛教被称为“Chenrezig”(观音最初是男性),在中国内地变成Kuanyin(女性),在日本又变成Kannon(男性)。

@Vishnupriya
Here's big point you forgot to make: Gautama Buddha was a real person, and Guanyin is a figment of people's imaginations.

这里有一点你忘了提:佛陀是一个真人,而观音是人们想象中的虚构人物。

@Anurag Korde
And so are Vishnu and Shiva. Let people worship their gods FFS.

毗湿奴和湿婆也是如此。让人们崇拜他们的神。

@Promrak
shocking
In Indian Buddhism, Avalokitesvara is just an assistant to Amitabha.
In Chinese Buddhism, she becomes the all-powerful goddess

这让人震惊
在印度佛教中,观世音只是阿弥陀佛身边的一个助理
在中国佛教中,她变成了全能女神

@Terri Ferrari
Guanyin reminds me of the Virgin Mary in Roman Catholic Church. She is particularly revered by women. Does Guanyin play a similar role?

观音让我想起了罗马天主教堂里的圣母玛利亚。她特别受妇女尊敬。观音也扮演类似的角色吗?

@Aya Shawn
There are some similarities, but in Christianity there is some overlap in the functions of God and Mary. For example, you can pray to God that your child will be born healthy. In some sects, you can pray to the Blessed Mother.
But in Chinese Buddhism, Guanyin's function is unique. You can't pray to Buddha, you can only pray to Avalokitesvara to get a child.

有一些相似之处,但在基督教中,上帝和玛丽的职能有一些重叠。例如,你可以向上帝祈祷,希望你的孩子出生时健康。在某些教派,你可以向圣母祈祷。
但在中国佛教中,观音的作用是独特的。你只能向观世音祈祷生孩子,而不能向佛祈祷这件事。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


@Yang Guo
virgin:
Maria: She must be a virgin or there will be war between the sects.
Guanyin: No one cares about this problem. She was originally male and a prince. Her feminine form is achieved through magic.
Covering the sins of believers:
Maria: Pray to her and you will be exempted from all punishment.
Guanyin: If you make a mistake, you will definitely receive whatever punishment you deserve.Dont do it
To help you escape from suffering:
Maria: That's not Maria's job.
Guanyin: As long as you pray, you will get help.
Ways to become a god:
Maria: Chosen by God.
Guanyin: Self-awakening and successful cultivation.
Guanyin is revered by women and men.
Not only women.

处女:
玛丽亚:她必须是处女,否则教派之间就会发生战争。
观音:没有人关心这个问题。她原本是男性,是王子。她的女性形态是通过魔法实现的。
掩盖信徒的罪恶:
玛丽亚:向她祷告,你将免于一切惩罚。
观音:如果你犯了错误,你一定会受到应有的惩罚,请不要犯错。
为了帮助你摆脱痛苦:
玛丽亚:那不是玛丽亚的工作。
观音:只要你祈祷,你就会得到帮助。
成为神的方法:
玛丽亚:上帝选择的。
观音:自我觉醒,修炼成功。
观音受到女人和男人的共同尊敬。
不仅仅是女性。

@Terri Ferrari
I am a Taoist, so I am not wedded to either tradition.
I wouldn’t argue with most of your points, except: ‘ To help you escape from suffering: That's not Maria's job.’ It’s common to partition Mary to heal someone, especially a mother’s child.
My Italian grandmother was the youngest of 11, who lived to 104. I watched her go through a cycle of visiting siblings ( and their spouse) in the hospital, and then go to church to pray.
My form of Taoism also believes in Self-awakening and successful cultivation.

我是一个道士,所以我不拘泥于这两种传统。
我不会反驳你的大部分观点,除了:“帮助你摆脱痛苦:这不是玛丽亚的工作。”
通常情况下,帮助他人摆脱痛苦是玛丽亚的责任,特别是对于一位母亲和她的孩子。
我的意大利祖母是11个孩子中最小的一个,活到104岁。我看着她在医院探望兄弟姐妹(和他们的配偶),然后去教堂祈祷。
我的道教也相信自我觉醒和成功修炼。

@Yang Guo
emmmm……
I'm confused, are you a Taoist or a Christian?
Which god do you believe in? Is it the Taoist God, or the Christian God?

额~~~~
我很困惑,你是道士还是基督徒?
你相信哪个神?是道教的天帝,还是基督教的上帝?

@Terri Ferrari
I was christened as an infant, so I didn’t have much choice. I came into Taoism from studying Taiji, Baguazhang , qigong and meditation for most of my life, including with the lineage holders in Beijing.
My Taoism derives more from my meditation and the wisdom of the hermits than common folk practices. I don’t believe there is a God. I believe in Science.

我是在婴儿时期受洗的,所以我没有太多选择。我一生中的大部分时间都是从学习太极、八卦掌、气功和冥想开始进入道教的,包括与北京的传承者一起学习。
我的道教更多地来源于我的冥想和隐士的智慧,而不是普通的民间实践。我不相信有上帝。我相信科学。

@Bandem Jaya
It seems that Avalokitesvara has evolved into some kind of all-powerful god in China

看起来 观世音在中国已经演化为某种全能神

@Da Rees
Gautama Buddha taught people to attenuate all of their attachments and extinguish desire itself. They must do this for themselves; it is not an easy path or one that will be supported by one’s family, friends, or society in most cases. Guanyin (Avalokiteshvara) is the embodiment of compassion and mercy. In her Bodhisattva vow she promised to answer the cries of all sentient beings and to do what she can to alleviate their suffering, showering her unconditional love. Devotion to Guanyin is widely seen as a path to salvation from suffering in itself. Which do you think will appeal more widely to the masses of China?

佛陀教导人们要减少所有的执着,消灭欲望本身。他们必须自己做到这一点;这不是一条容易的道路,在大多数情况下,家人、朋友或社会也不会支持这条道路。观世音菩萨是慈悲和怜悯的化身。在她的菩萨誓言中,她承诺回应所有众生的呼喊,尽其所能减轻他们的痛苦,倾注她无条件的爱。对观世音菩萨的虔诚被广泛视为一种摆脱苦难的途径。你认为哪种方式更能吸引中国大众?
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


@Bhimraj Bahadur
Guanyin does not have an exact straightforward “equivalent” in Hinduism. Hindus pray to various Goddesses and Gods for compassion and mercy - Parvati, Lakshmi, etc. Many Hindus also directly revere Guanyin, especially in Nepal and certain other communities. But one who is especially renowned as an embodiment of mercy is the Goddess Bhuvaneshwari.

在印度教中,观世音菩萨没有一个完全直接的“对应者”。印度教徒向各种女神和神祈求怜悯和仁慈,譬如帕尔瓦蒂、拉克希米等。许多印度教徒也直接崇拜观音,特别是在尼泊尔和其他某些社区。但作为仁慈的化身而特别著名的是女神布瓦内什瓦里。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


I find that almost no Buddhists in any country outside East Asia do that.
Well, East Asia contains the majority of the world’s Buddhists, so it’s not as though that’s a minority position. But if we look at the smaller Theravada tradition of Buddhism found in Southeast Asia and Sri Lanka, they very similarly do worship various deities for worldly blessings - just different deities. So I don’t think it’s so fundamentally different from Guanyin worship. Also, there are actually important Guanyin temples in Sri Lanka (Gangaramaya Temple and Natha De), Thailand (Temple of the Emerald Buddha) and Myanmar (Shwedagon Pagoda).

我发现东亚以外国家的佛教徒几乎没有这样做。
嗯,东亚拥有世界上大多数的佛教徒,所以这并不是少数派的观点。但如果我们看看东南亚和斯里兰卡的小型上座部佛教传统,他们非常相似地崇拜各种神灵以求得世俗的祝福——只是神灵不同。所以我认为这与观音崇拜并没有太大的区别。此外,斯里兰卡(甘加拉玛雅寺和纳塔德瓦勒寺)、泰国(玉佛寺)和缅甸(仰光大金塔)实际上都有重要的观音庙。

So, are the Chinese heretics?
East Asian Buddhism follows Mahayana teachings; Southeast Asian Buddhism follows Theravada teachings. I do not see either as “heretics”. The Mahayana Buddhists simply accept a wider number of texts as valid and useful teachings, whereas the Theravada Buddhists are narrower and more sextive. I do not find it useful to call the majority of Buddhists “heretics” for finding spiritual value in a broader range of texts and practices

那么,中国人是异教徒吗?
东亚佛教遵循大乘佛教教义,东南亚佛教遵循小乘佛教教义。我不认为他们俩是“异端”。大乘佛教徒只是接受更多经文作为有效和有用的教义,而小乘佛教徒则更狭隘和更具选择性。我认为称大多数佛教徒为“异端”是没有用的,因为他们在更广泛的文本和实践中找到了精神价值。

@Laxmi Gupta
Indic religions(hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism and Jainism) have no concept of heresy. It is only found in Abrahamic religions. Christianity and Judaism no longer actively pursue it but Muslims still do.

印度宗教(印度教、佛教、锡克教和耆那教)没有异端的概念。它只在亚伯拉罕的宗教中存在。现在基督教和犹太教不再积极追求它,但穆斯林仍然如此。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


@Da Rees
Da Rees's answer to Does Hinduism have a concept of Heresey? Early scxtures I heard have only vague descxtions of hell. Or as a path destined for the ignorant, but puranic scxtures like Vishnu purana seem to contain heresy. Am I mistaken?

印度教是否有异端的概念?早期经典中只有对地狱模糊的描述。或者说,只是针对无知者的一条道路,但维苏古普拉纳等普兰经典似乎包含了异端。我错了吗?

@Laxmi Gupta
I respect your knowledge of Hinduism. Do you know what Sanskrit word Vishnu Purana uses for heresy?

我尊重你对印度教的了解。你知道梵文中毗湿奴经是用什么来表示异端的吗?

@Bhimraj Bahadur
Guanyin is brand ambassador of the world

观世音菩萨是世界品牌大使

@Anand
The question’s premise is literally false.
The Chinese have far more faith in Buddha than Guanyin, which is why there are far more Buddha temples and statues than there are of Guanyin.

这个问题的前提实际上是错误的。
中国人对佛的信仰远远超过观音,这就是为什么佛教寺庙和佛像远远超过观音的原因。

@Kári Svansson
I would contend that Guan Yin is an Indian goddess in origin, indirectly speaking. She is the female form of the Tibetan bodhisattva of compassion Avalokiteshvara - and he is of Indian origin, as his Sanskrit name implies; Tibetan Buddhism being in all essentials a ‘transplant’ of Indian Buddhism, which was the dominant religion in India for no less than 1500 years! - So, by this rather tortuous route, we can say that Guanyin has Indian roots!

间接地说,我认为观音是印度的女神。她是西藏慈悲观世音菩萨的女性形体——正如他的梵文名字所暗示的那样,他来自印度;藏传佛教在所有方面都是印度佛教的“移植”,印度佛教是印度至少1500年来的主导宗教!-所以,通过这条相当曲折的路线,我们可以说观音有印度的根!

@Da Rees
Indian perhaps, but still very much Buddhist.

也许是印度,但仍然非常具有佛教特色。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


@Satyam Jawarkar
Mahayana Buddhism is the religious form of Buddhism just like Hinduism as I studied it

大乘佛教是佛教的宗教形式,就像我学习的印度教一样

@Kasun Wickrama
Buddhism is a science to exit continued existence in samasara. …..NO AMOUNT OF PRAYING CAN GET YOU THIS. SOON THE BUDDHISTS REALISE THIS THE BETTER FOR EVERYONE….
ALL BEINGS in the 31 planes of existence are csught up in this.

佛教是一门科学,旨在摆脱轮回中的持续存在。……无论祈祷多少,都不能获得这一点。
佛教徒越早意识到这一点,对所有人都越好……所有存在于三十一界中的众生都被卷入其中。

@Vishnupriya
Because we will all grow older, change and die, you would think that Buddah’s philosophy would be almost universal amongst mankind, but still after 2500 years it's still a minority religion and only the strongest can fully integrate it into their lives.
This Guanyin deity seems like just another “sky-daddy” figure to wipe away our tears.

因为我们都会变老、变化并最终死去,你可能会认为佛陀的哲学几乎是被人类普遍接受的,但是2500年后,它仍然是少数宗教,只有最坚强的人才能完全将其融入生活中。这位观音菩萨似乎只是另一个“天父”形象,用来擦去我们的眼泪。

@ShoKatsu Ryo Komei
Chinese Buddhism is the authentic Buddhism.

中国佛教才是正宗的佛教。

@Da Rees
The mere fact of you saying so in that way pushes me further from agreeing.

仅仅是你这样说,我就更不同意了。

@ShoKatsu Ryo Komei
don't talk about indian buddhism
Yes, Buddhism originated in India
But it has nothing to do with today’s India
When Master Xuanzang went to India for the second time, he found that Buddhism was almost extinct in India. India ceased to be a Buddhist world 1000 years ago.
Today's Indian Buddhism was transmitted backward from China and Southeast Asia
The center of Buddhism had moved to China during the Tang Empire, to the White Horse Temple in xi'an. At present, Buddhist monks from all over the world make pilgrimages here regularly.
70% of the world's Buddhist believers are in China, and 90% of them are Mahayana Buddhist believers. Therefore, whether Guanyin is a male or female, her status is decided by the Chinese and has nothing to do with the Indians.

不要谈论什么印度佛教
没错,佛教起源于古印度大陆
但是和现在的印度没什么关系
玄奘大师第二次去印度的时候,就发现佛教在印度已经几乎灭绝了。印度在1000年前就不再是佛教世界。
现在的印度佛教是从中国和东南亚反向传递的
佛教的中心在唐帝国时期就已经移到了中国,在西安,白马寺。目前,全世界的佛教高僧都定期去这里朝圣。
全世界70%的佛教信徒在中国,他们中90%是大乘佛教信徒。所以,观音是男是女,她的地位在哪里,是中国人说了算,和印度人没关系。。

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