【上】6年来，没有一个“印度制造”的大型国防项目取得进展
正文翻译
NEW DELHI: None of the major ‘Make in India’ projects in the defence arena, ranging from new-generation stealth submarines, minesweepers and light utility helicopters to infantry combat vehicles, transport aircraft and fighter jets, have actually taken off in the last six years. These long-pending projects, collectively worth over Rs 3.5 lakh crore, are either stuck or still meandering through different stages, without the final contracts to launch production being inked. The relatively new project to manufacture around 7,50,000 Kalashnikov AK-203 assault rifles in a joint venture with Russia at the Korwa ordnance factory in UP, in fact, is the one poised to kick off first.
从新一代隐形潜艇、扫雷舰、轻型通用直升机，到步兵战车、运输机和战斗机，在过去6年里，国防领域的“印度制造”项目没有一个真正启动。这些项目总价值超过35万亿卢比，长期悬而未决，要么停滞不前，要么仍在不同阶段艰难前行，没有签署投产的最终合同。而一个相对较新的项目，也就是与俄罗斯合资，在北方邦的科尔瓦兵工厂生产约750,000支卡拉什尼科夫AK-203突击步枪，反而准备第一个开始。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：chuhao123 转载请注明出处
NEW DELHI: None of the major ‘Make in India’ projects in the defence arena, ranging from new-generation stealth submarines, minesweepers and light utility helicopters to infantry combat vehicles, transport aircraft and fighter jets, have actually taken off in the last six years. These long-pending projects, collectively worth over Rs 3.5 lakh crore, are either stuck or still meandering through different stages, without the final contracts to launch production being inked. The relatively new project to manufacture around 7,50,000 Kalashnikov AK-203 assault rifles in a joint venture with Russia at the Korwa ordnance factory in UP, in fact, is the one poised to kick off first.
从新一代隐形潜艇、扫雷舰、轻型通用直升机，到步兵战车、运输机和战斗机，在过去6年里，国防领域的“印度制造”项目没有一个真正启动。这些项目总价值超过35万亿卢比，长期悬而未决，要么停滞不前，要么仍在不同阶段艰难前行，没有签署投产的最终合同。而一个相对较新的项目，也就是与俄罗斯合资，在北方邦的科尔瓦兵工厂生产约750,000支卡拉什尼科夫AK-203突击步枪，反而准备第一个开始。
TOI in October 2017 had done a stock-taking of six mega Make in India projects to find that bureaucratic bottlenecks, long-winded procedures, commercial and technical wranglings, coupled with lack of requisite political push and follow-through, continued to stymie their launch. Two years later, the story more or less remains the same for seven major projects (see graphic). India since then has scrapped the massive fifth-generation fighter aircraft project with Russia in favour of the indigenous advanced medium combat aircraft (AMCA) project, as was reported by TOI earlier.
印度时报在2017年10月对6个大型印度制造项目进行了盘点，发现官僚主义的瓶颈、冗长的程序、商业和技术上的争吵，再加上缺乏必要的政治推动和跟进，继续阻碍了这些项目的推出。两年后，这7个主要项目的情况或多或少保持不变(见图表)。印度时报早些时候报道称，自那以后，印度取消了与俄罗斯的大规模第五代战斗机项目，转而支持本国的先进中型战斗机(AMCA)项目。
印度时报在2017年10月对6个大型印度制造项目进行了盘点，发现官僚主义的瓶颈、冗长的程序、商业和技术上的争吵，再加上缺乏必要的政治推动和跟进，继续阻碍了这些项目的推出。两年后，这7个主要项目的情况或多或少保持不变(见图表)。印度时报早些时候报道称，自那以后，印度取消了与俄罗斯的大规模第五代战斗机项目，转而支持本国的先进中型战斗机(AMCA)项目。
The defence ministry says several measures have been taken to promote indigenous defence production, which include revisions in the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) and FDI policy, simplification of “Make” procedures and offset guidelines, notification of the “strategic partnership (SP)” model and the decision to set up two defence industrial corridors in Tamil Nadu and UP. “There is a big push to boost indigenous defence production but it will take time to fructify on the ground. Some projects are about to take off. The contract for the AK-203 rifles should be inked by early next year after some delay since the JV with Russia was set up,” said a senior official.
国防部表示，已经采取了若干措施来促进本土国防生产，包括修订国防采购程序和外国直接投资政策、简化“制造”程序和抵消准则、明确“战略伙伴关系”模式，并决定在泰米尔纳德邦和北方邦建立两条国防工业走廊。“我们正在大力推动本土国防生产，但要项目落地开花结果还需要时间。一些项目即将启动。AK-203步枪的合同应在明年初签署，伴随着与俄罗斯的合资企业的成立，该合同发生了一些推迟，”一位高级官员表示。
国防部表示，已经采取了若干措施来促进本土国防生产，包括修订国防采购程序和外国直接投资政策、简化“制造”程序和抵消准则、明确“战略伙伴关系”模式，并决定在泰米尔纳德邦和北方邦建立两条国防工业走廊。“我们正在大力推动本土国防生产，但要项目落地开花结果还需要时间。一些项目即将启动。AK-203步枪的合同应在明年初签署，伴随着与俄罗斯的合资企业的成立，该合同发生了一些推迟，”一位高级官员表示。
“Similarly, it took a long time to conclude the price negotiations for the Tata-Airbus project to make 56 C-295 aircraft because it was a single-vendor situation but the case will now go to the Cabinet Committee on Security for clearance,” he added. But much more clearly needs to be done to rid India of the embarrassing and strategically-vulnerable position of being the world’s largest arms importer.
他补充称:“同样，塔塔-空客项目花费了很长时间才完成56架C-295飞机的价格谈判，因为这是一个单一供应商的情况，但这个案子现在将提交内阁安全委员会审批。”但是要想摆脱印度作为全球最大武器进口国这一令人尴尬且在战略上易受攻击的地位，还需要付出更多努力。
他补充称:“同样，塔塔-空客项目花费了很长时间才完成56架C-295飞机的价格谈判，因为这是一个单一供应商的情况，但这个案子现在将提交内阁安全委员会审批。”但是要想摆脱印度作为全球最大武器进口国这一令人尴尬且在战略上易受攻击的地位，还需要付出更多努力。
Many insiders contend the much-touted SP policy to boost the role of Indian companies in production of new-generation weapon systems in collaboration with global armament majors, in fact, has only added further to the delays in finalising and executing projects. The armed forces, for instance, have been demanding new light utility choppers for over 15 years to replace their obsolete single-engine Cheetah and Chetak fleets, which have been dogged by a high crash rate and serviceability problems.
许多业内人士认为，备受推崇的SP政策（旨在提升印度公司与全球武器巨头合作生产新一代武器系统的作用），实际上只会进一步拖延项目的最终敲定和执行。例如，15年多来，武装部队一直要求使用新型轻型通用直升机，以取代其过时的单引擎猎豹和切塔克直升机，这两种飞机一直受到高坠毁率和适用性问题的困扰。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
许多业内人士认为，备受推崇的SP政策（旨在提升印度公司与全球武器巨头合作生产新一代武器系统的作用），实际上只会进一步拖延项目的最终敲定和执行。例如，15年多来，武装部队一直要求使用新型轻型通用直升机，以取代其过时的单引擎猎豹和切塔克直升机，这两种飞机一直受到高坠毁率和适用性问题的困扰。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Under the SP policy, the first project will be the Navy’s quest for 111 armed, twin-engine utility choppers at a cost of over Rs 21,000 crore. But just as four Indian firms (Tata, Adani, Mahindra Defence and Bharat Forge) and three foreign manufacturers (Airbus, Kamov and Lockheed Martin-Sikorsky) were recently shortlisted, defence PSU Hindustan Aeronautics has sounded the alarm over it not being considered for the helicopter project. Similarly, the Navy’s case for six new stealth diesel-electric submarines, which was first approved in November 2007 at a cost of over Rs 50,000 crore, is also nowhere near finalisation under the SP model.
然而根据SP政策，第一个项目将是海军寻求111架武装双引擎通用直升机，项目成本超过2100亿卢比。但是，就在四家印度公司(塔塔、阿达尼、马欣德拉防务和巴拉特锻造)和三家外国制造商(空中客车、卡莫夫和洛克希德马丁-西科斯基)最近被列入入围名单时，国防大学印度斯坦航空学却发出了警报，因为它没有被考虑参与直升机项目。同样，印度海军在2007年11月首次批准了6艘新型隐形柴电潜艇，耗资超过5000亿卢比，但是在SP模式下，也距离完成相去甚远。
然而根据SP政策，第一个项目将是海军寻求111架武装双引擎通用直升机，项目成本超过2100亿卢比。但是，就在四家印度公司(塔塔、阿达尼、马欣德拉防务和巴拉特锻造)和三家外国制造商(空中客车、卡莫夫和洛克希德马丁-西科斯基)最近被列入入围名单时，国防大学印度斯坦航空学却发出了警报，因为它没有被考虑参与直升机项目。同样，印度海军在2007年11月首次批准了6艘新型隐形柴电潜艇，耗资超过5000亿卢比，但是在SP模式下，也距离完成相去甚远。
Take another project. India and Russia had inked the inter-governmental agreement to manufacture 200 Kamov-226T light-utility helicopters for over $1 billion in December 2015. But it is stuck in the technical uation stage over the “low level of indigenisation” being offered by Russia, say sources. This much-delayed project for the twin-engine light utility helicopters is considered crucial because India’s endeavour to buy 197 such choppers from abroad has been scrapped three times over the last decade due to corruption allegations and technical deviations.
还有另一个项目。2015年12月，印度和俄罗斯签署了一项政府间协议，以超过10亿美元的价格生产200架卡莫夫-226t轻型通用直升机。但消息人士表示，由于俄罗斯提出的方案“本土化水平过低”，该计划仍处于技术评估阶段。这一拖延已久的双引擎轻型通用直升机项目被认为是至关重要的，但是由于腐败指控和技术偏差，印度这个从国外购买197架该型直升机的努力，在过去10年里，已经取消了3次。
还有另一个项目。2015年12月，印度和俄罗斯签署了一项政府间协议，以超过10亿美元的价格生产200架卡莫夫-226t轻型通用直升机。但消息人士表示，由于俄罗斯提出的方案“本土化水平过低”，该计划仍处于技术评估阶段。这一拖延已久的双引擎轻型通用直升机项目被认为是至关重要的，但是由于腐败指控和技术偏差，印度这个从国外购买197架该型直升机的努力，在过去10年里，已经取消了3次。
评论翻译
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原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
eff50
Defence has been in a bad state over the last 6 years. No progress on all major programs for years now. Project 75I is such an incredibly important project, but because of the slowness of the government in making a decision, we will be facing with falling submarine numbers in 2020s, since the older ones are going to retire soon.
在过去的6年里，国防一直处于糟糕的状态。多年来，所有主要项目都没有进展。75I项目是一个非常重要的项目，但是由于政府在决策上的缓慢，我们将在2020年面临潜艇数量下降的问题，因为老的潜艇很快就会退役。
Defence has been in a bad state over the last 6 years. No progress on all major programs for years now. Project 75I is such an incredibly important project, but because of the slowness of the government in making a decision, we will be facing with falling submarine numbers in 2020s, since the older ones are going to retire soon.
在过去的6年里，国防一直处于糟糕的状态。多年来，所有主要项目都没有进展。75I项目是一个非常重要的项目，但是由于政府在决策上的缓慢，我们将在2020年面临潜艇数量下降的问题，因为老的潜艇很快就会退役。
thetamilking
We can''''''''t even manufacture proven tech like Train 18. Forget about helicopters
我们就连Train 18那种大路货的技术都造不出来，还是忘掉直升飞机吧。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
We can''''''''t even manufacture proven tech like Train 18. Forget about helicopters
我们就连Train 18那种大路货的技术都造不出来，还是忘掉直升飞机吧。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
PurushNahiMahaPurush
Didn''''''''t the Railway Ministry say that they will make around 10 new Vande Bharat Express trains next year?
印度铁道部不是说他们明年将制造10列新的梵德巴拉特特快列车吗?
Didn''''''''t the Railway Ministry say that they will make around 10 new Vande Bharat Express trains next year?
印度铁道部不是说他们明年将制造10列新的梵德巴拉特特快列车吗?
thetamilking
Nah, it''''''''s stuck due to our bureaucracy. Also read that ICF doesn''''''''t plan on making any T18s in the near future: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/icf-may-not-make-train-18-in-near-future/articleshow/72323104.cms
And, in other news... We''''''''ve let out a tender to import 60 train sets yesterday.
不，是因为我们的官僚作风。另外，ICF不打算在近期生产T18：
还有，其他新闻说，我们昨天招标进口了60套火车。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Nah, it''''''''s stuck due to our bureaucracy. Also read that ICF doesn''''''''t plan on making any T18s in the near future: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/icf-may-not-make-train-18-in-near-future/articleshow/72323104.cms
And, in other news... We''''''''ve let out a tender to import 60 train sets yesterday.
不，是因为我们的官僚作风。另外，ICF不打算在近期生产T18：
还有，其他新闻说，我们昨天招标进口了60套火车。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
eff50
But notice how the government has been going round and round in circles with one fake promise after another. Once they say will import 60 rakes, next they say they will make 640 coaches in India, on the third day they start a vigilance probe against ICF. So what exactly is the truth and where does this project stand? Modi is always happy to flag off the trains and sing paeans about Make in India but after that no word.
但是请注意政府是如何围绕着一个又一个虚假的承诺转圈的。他们曾经说将进口60个耙子，接下来他们又说说将在印度生产640个教练，第三天他们开始对ICF进行警戒调查。那么，真相到底是什么？这个项目的立场是什么？莫迪总是高兴地在火车上挥手，高唱“印度制造”的赞歌，但之后就什么也不说。
But notice how the government has been going round and round in circles with one fake promise after another. Once they say will import 60 rakes, next they say they will make 640 coaches in India, on the third day they start a vigilance probe against ICF. So what exactly is the truth and where does this project stand? Modi is always happy to flag off the trains and sing paeans about Make in India but after that no word.
但是请注意政府是如何围绕着一个又一个虚假的承诺转圈的。他们曾经说将进口60个耙子，接下来他们又说说将在印度生产640个教练，第三天他们开始对ICF进行警戒调查。那么，真相到底是什么？这个项目的立场是什么？莫迪总是高兴地在火车上挥手，高唱“印度制造”的赞歌，但之后就什么也不说。
PurushNahiMahaPurush
Wow this is super depressing.
哇哦，这个消息真是超级令人丧气。
Wow this is super depressing.
哇哦，这个消息真是超级令人丧气。
jedimomos
Import 18 trains from which country ? Japan ?
从哪个国家进口18台列车？日本？
Import 18 trains from which country ? Japan ?
从哪个国家进口18台列车？日本？
jedimomos
Why can’t we make these trains our self ? I mean we have the cheap labour everyone says China has SO WHY CANT WE DO IT
为什么我们不能自己制造那些列车？我是说，我们有廉价的劳动力，所有人都说中国是因为这样，为什么我们做不到呢？
Why can’t we make these trains our self ? I mean we have the cheap labour everyone says China has SO WHY CANT WE DO IT
为什么我们不能自己制造那些列车？我是说，我们有廉价的劳动力，所有人都说中国是因为这样，为什么我们做不到呢？
Akhand Bharat
Well, if a train is purchased from outside, there would be a lot of commissions for the Railway board.
Never mind that Train 18 is a marvelous piece of engineering
嗯，如果从外面购买一辆火车，铁路局会得到很多佣金。
没关系，18号线是一项了不起的工程。
Well, if a train is purchased from outside, there would be a lot of commissions for the Railway board.
Never mind that Train 18 is a marvelous piece of engineering
嗯，如果从外面购买一辆火车，铁路局会得到很多佣金。
没关系，18号线是一项了不起的工程。
jedimomos
Fuck commission if it’s made in India many poor people will have jobs and stable income
去他妈的佣金，如果在印度制造，很多穷人都能获得工作和稳定的收入。
Fuck commission if it’s made in India many poor people will have jobs and stable income
去他妈的佣金，如果在印度制造，很多穷人都能获得工作和稳定的收入。
Raxost351
It is not necessary to ban 100% imports. We should have some samples of latest tech even if fully imported.
没有必要完全禁止进口。即使完全进口，我们也应该有一些最新技术的样品。
It is not necessary to ban 100% imports. We should have some samples of latest tech even if fully imported.
没有必要完全禁止进口。即使完全进口，我们也应该有一些最新技术的样品。
Critical_Finance
Privatise the defence industry, else we will remain the biggest importer
把国防工业私有化吧，否则我们将依然是最大的进口国。
Privatise the defence industry, else we will remain the biggest importer
把国防工业私有化吧，否则我们将依然是最大的进口国。
Maj_Karma
Yeah? Where will the private sector gets its defence technology from? It''''''''s going to lead to foreign companies (and countries) getting their foot in the door.
什么？私营部门的国防技术从何而来？这将导致外国公司(和国家)涉足我们的市场。
Yeah? Where will the private sector gets its defence technology from? It''''''''s going to lead to foreign companies (and countries) getting their foot in the door.
什么？私营部门的国防技术从何而来？这将导致外国公司(和国家)涉足我们的市场。
NorthJury
They can get the technology from HAL and then do a better job than them.
他们可以从印度航空得到技术，然后做出比后者更好的成果。
They can get the technology from HAL and then do a better job than them.
他们可以从印度航空得到技术，然后做出比后者更好的成果。
kolikaal
Good. Open the sector up for 100% FDI. We got to stop living in the fear that foreign companies will come and steal all our defense "secrets". We don''''''''t have that many "secret" capabilities for a Boeing or a Northorp to steal. On the other hand, they have enormous knowledge to give to us if we can strike decent deals.
很好，将这些行业开放至100%外资。我们不能再生活在“外国公司会来窃取我们的国防‘机密’”的恐惧当中。我们没有那么多“机密”可以给波音或者诺斯洛普去偷。恰恰相反，如果我们能够达成不错的交易，反而可以从他们那里获得大量的知识。
Good. Open the sector up for 100% FDI. We got to stop living in the fear that foreign companies will come and steal all our defense "secrets". We don''''''''t have that many "secret" capabilities for a Boeing or a Northorp to steal. On the other hand, they have enormous knowledge to give to us if we can strike decent deals.
很好，将这些行业开放至100%外资。我们不能再生活在“外国公司会来窃取我们的国防‘机密’”的恐惧当中。我们没有那么多“机密”可以给波音或者诺斯洛普去偷。恰恰相反，如果我们能够达成不错的交易，反而可以从他们那里获得大量的知识。
Maj_Karma
No sane country, especially any country which has as serious security conflicts as India, allows it''''''''s military to be held hostage by foreign defence manufacturers and countries.
任何一个理智的国家，尤其是像印度这样面临着严重的安全冲突的国家，会允许它的军事被外国国防制造商和国家劫为人质。
No sane country, especially any country which has as serious security conflicts as India, allows it''''''''s military to be held hostage by foreign defence manufacturers and countries.
任何一个理智的国家，尤其是像印度这样面临着严重的安全冲突的国家，会允许它的军事被外国国防制造商和国家劫为人质。
kolikaal
Oh, is that why our critical defense equipment have forever been manufactured by foreign companies and imported? Is that great for our national interest?
Our military held hostage a lot more by some monopoly PSU companies than by any foreign establishment.
哦，这就是为什么我们的关键国防设备一直由外国公司制造和进口吗？这对我们的国家利益有好处吗？
与外国势力相比，我们的军事更多的被某些垄断性的PSU公司把持着，
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Oh, is that why our critical defense equipment have forever been manufactured by foreign companies and imported? Is that great for our national interest?
Our military held hostage a lot more by some monopoly PSU companies than by any foreign establishment.
哦，这就是为什么我们的关键国防设备一直由外国公司制造和进口吗？这对我们的国家利益有好处吗？
与外国势力相比，我们的军事更多的被某些垄断性的PSU公司把持着，
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
MelodicBerries
But there has always been a parallell PSU structure if SHTF. Not as efficient as the imported stuff (for the most part) but ready to take the mantle if there was a real crisis and provide baseline defence. So India cannot rely 100% on foreigners. That''''''''d be crazy.
但是一旦发生大变，总会有一个平行的PSU结构。尽管（大部分情况下）不像进口的东西那样有效，但是一旦发生真正的危机，它都会准备好承担责任，并提供基本的国防能力。所以印度不能完全依赖外国人。那样太疯狂了。
But there has always been a parallell PSU structure if SHTF. Not as efficient as the imported stuff (for the most part) but ready to take the mantle if there was a real crisis and provide baseline defence. So India cannot rely 100% on foreigners. That''''''''d be crazy.
但是一旦发生大变，总会有一个平行的PSU结构。尽管（大部分情况下）不像进口的东西那样有效，但是一旦发生真正的危机，它都会准备好承担责任，并提供基本的国防能力。所以印度不能完全依赖外国人。那样太疯狂了。
liberalindianguy
Easier said than done. Defence industry needs huge R&D budget and an highly advanced and matured tech industry. Indian private sector has neither. At least when it’s public the govt can keep pumping money.
说起来容易做起来难。国防工业需要庞大的研发预算和高度先进成熟的技术产业。印度私营部门两者都没有。至少当它属于公共部门的时候，政府可以继续注入资金。
Easier said than done. Defence industry needs huge R&D budget and an highly advanced and matured tech industry. Indian private sector has neither. At least when it’s public the govt can keep pumping money.
说起来容易做起来难。国防工业需要庞大的研发预算和高度先进成熟的技术产业。印度私营部门两者都没有。至少当它属于公共部门的时候，政府可以继续注入资金。
Top_Customer
The problem is bureaucracy. You cannot build a 21st century superpower with 19th century state apparatus. Forget about superpower, you cannot accomplish anything with this colonial bureaucracy. Political class is too clueless or self serving. Modi too has no interest in taking on them. Just buzzwords and a minute action across a whole term like 10 lateral entries at the end of five year term. I bet the next ten would be appointed in 2024. Because there is no established civil society or intellegntsia that is favourable to him or closer to his political views and he too is stubborn and insecure about the present establishment, all he has left is the rusted bureaucracy.
问题在于官僚主义。你不可能用19世纪的国家机器来建立一个21世纪的超级大国。忘掉超级大国吧，有了这个殖民官僚主义，我们什么也干不了。政治阶层太愚蠢，太自私。莫迪也没有兴趣对付他们。从头到尾只有一些时髦的词汇和三分钟热度，就像5年任期结束时有10个横向项目。我敢打赌等到2024年我们又会提出10个宏伟的项目。因为没有对他有利或更接近他政治观点的成熟的公民社会或知识分子，他也对目前的体制顽固而缺乏安全感，他只剩下锈迹斑斑的官僚机构。
The problem is bureaucracy. You cannot build a 21st century superpower with 19th century state apparatus. Forget about superpower, you cannot accomplish anything with this colonial bureaucracy. Political class is too clueless or self serving. Modi too has no interest in taking on them. Just buzzwords and a minute action across a whole term like 10 lateral entries at the end of five year term. I bet the next ten would be appointed in 2024. Because there is no established civil society or intellegntsia that is favourable to him or closer to his political views and he too is stubborn and insecure about the present establishment, all he has left is the rusted bureaucracy.
问题在于官僚主义。你不可能用19世纪的国家机器来建立一个21世纪的超级大国。忘掉超级大国吧，有了这个殖民官僚主义，我们什么也干不了。政治阶层太愚蠢，太自私。莫迪也没有兴趣对付他们。从头到尾只有一些时髦的词汇和三分钟热度，就像5年任期结束时有10个横向项目。我敢打赌等到2024年我们又会提出10个宏伟的项目。因为没有对他有利或更接近他政治观点的成熟的公民社会或知识分子，他也对目前的体制顽固而缺乏安全感，他只剩下锈迹斑斑的官僚机构。
---------------
reddit0r_
Superpower in 29 days but can''''''''t even make a competent fighter jet or attack chopper?
还有29天就要成为超级大国了，竟然造不出像样的战斗机或攻击直升机？
reddit0r_
Superpower in 29 days but can''''''''t even make a competent fighter jet or attack chopper?
还有29天就要成为超级大国了，竟然造不出像样的战斗机或攻击直升机？
RoyalContext0
LCA Tejas? LCH?
How can you say that when we have Tejas and LCH.
光辉呢？LCH呢？
我们都有光辉和LCH了，你怎么能这么说？
LCA Tejas? LCH?
How can you say that when we have Tejas and LCH.
光辉呢？LCH呢？
我们都有光辉和LCH了，你怎么能这么说？
reddit0r_
IAF is on record saying Tejas are far too behind the competition. It''''''''s a good plane for maybe early 2000s, its usefulness right now is mainly as a developmental piece for our industries.
印度空军说光辉战机远远落后于竞争对手。它也许在2000年代初期是一种好飞机，但现在没用了，它的主要用途是作为我们工业发展的一个成果展示。
IAF is on record saying Tejas are far too behind the competition. It''''''''s a good plane for maybe early 2000s, its usefulness right now is mainly as a developmental piece for our industries.
印度空军说光辉战机远远落后于竞争对手。它也许在2000年代初期是一种好飞机，但现在没用了，它的主要用途是作为我们工业发展的一个成果展示。
ZuBoY3
It''''''''s 2019 when China and US are almost done making 6th generation planes
现在是2019年，中国和美国第六代飞机都快完成了。
It''''''''s 2019 when China and US are almost done making 6th generation planes
现在是2019年，中国和美国第六代飞机都快完成了。
bafffee
6th gen planes?? You got any lixs for that? China hasn''''''''t been able to fix their engine troubles for 5th gen. J20. Not to mention numerous crashes they have faced with their Russian copy of deck based fighter
第六代飞机？有什么相关链接吗？中国都没有办法解决他们五代J20的发动机问题.....
6th gen planes?? You got any lixs for that? China hasn''''''''t been able to fix their engine troubles for 5th gen. J20. Not to mention numerous crashes they have faced with their Russian copy of deck based fighter
第六代飞机？有什么相关链接吗？中国都没有办法解决他们五代J20的发动机问题.....
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