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Hoan Go
The “real Vietnam” or the “authentic Vietnam”.
Every time when a foreigner says the real Vietnam, they expect to find some poor area with run down houses or a village in a remote place and probably not even inhabited by ethnic Vietnamese.
Anywhere that is developed with modern buildings or shops with (Vietnamese) brands and young Vietnamese in good clothes having fun, they say that’s not the real Vietnam!
These foreigners shock and baffle me.
Some even dare to say the ancient city of Hoi An is not the real Vietnam, just because it has modern restaurants and trendy cafes.

“真正的越南”。
每次当一个外国人说到真正的越南时，他们都希望找到一些贫困地区，那里的房子破旧不堪，或者是一个偏远的村庄，甚至可能没有越南人居住。
任何地方，只要有现代化的建筑，或者有(越南)品牌的商店，还有穿着好衣服的越南年轻人在玩，他们就会说那不是真正的越南!
这些外国人让我感到震惊和困惑。有些人甚至敢说，古老的会安城不是真正的越南，因为它有现代的餐馆和时髦的咖啡馆。

The real Vietnam according to ignorant foreigners:
The fake Vietnam, or the Vietnam exploited by “Western commercialism” (According to them anything more than a hut is the blessing of Western civilization and other people are incapable of achieving the same, if they do it must be because of Western influence!)
During the past years I have witnessed countless of tourists trying to find the “real Vietnam”. They complain of everything being unauthentic, shunning restaurants loved by locals because they are too big (large scale restaurants are not supposed to be the real Vietnam remember, since Vietnamese must only eat in street stalls as they are incapable of growing a business), moving to small country towns and telling fellow tourists to stay away from a list of “Westernized” cities because they are too large and unauthentic. Seriously I can’t help but find everything laughable and ridiculous.

对于无知的外国人来说，这才是他们眼中的越南：

那些假的越南，或者是被“西方商业主义”剥削的越南(在他们看来，任何比茅屋更重要的东西都是西方文明的祝福，而其他人无法获得同样的祝福。如果他们做到了，一定是受到了西方的影响!)
在过去的几年里，我目睹了无数游客试图寻找“真正的越南”。
他们抱怨一切都不真实，他们避开当地人喜欢的餐馆，因为它们太大了(大型餐馆不应该是真正的越南，记住，因为越南人只能在街边小摊上吃，因为他们没有能力发展生意)。去往小城镇，并告诉其他游客不要去那些“西方化”的城市，因为它们太大所以显得不正宗。说真的，我不禁觉得这一切都荒谬可笑。

Siddharth Bhattacharya
Even though the crux of your argument is understandable, it’s hard to dispute the world has Americanized significantly today. There is KFC, McDonalds everywhere you go and same-looking shopping malls. Being Americanized in this context doesn’t mean these countries couldn’t have come up with themselves or it’s American blessing (although I am sure a lot of Westerners do think in those terms)- but rather more countries as they advance are trying to make clones of America within their culture. Nothing wrong with that, but gets mundane for a traveller. After all, you don’t travel 1000s of miles to see more of the same as back home always like Stephen Taylor said.

尽管你的论点的核心是可以理解的，但很难否认当今世界已经明显美国化了。到处都是肯德基、麦当劳和看起来一样的购物中心。在这种情况下，被美国化并不意味着这些国家没有自己的文化，或者这是来自美国的祝福(尽管我相信很多西方人确实是这么想的)，而是大量国家在前进的过程中试图在他们的文化中复制美国。这并没有什么不对，但对于一个旅行者来说却会变得很平凡。毕竟，正如斯蒂芬·泰勒说的那样，你千里迢迢去到某个地方不是为了看到跟家乡一样的事物。

I visited KL in Malaysia and found it amongst the most boring cities I’ve visited. Advancement/ modernization in itself isn’t bad, but when a country loses it’s own individual identity in a quest to modernize it loses interest of travellers. That’s why Japan is a source of fascination for many Western travellers- very developed with have a very strong sense of their own culture, uniquely developed. When I go back to India, I try to avoid malls with Zara shops too. And when I say there is nothing “Indian” about it, it doesn’t mean malls or shopping in AC areas can’t be done by Indians without being a snob. It just means this shopping experience is not something I’d associate with an Indian identity- it’s predominantly selling Western clothes in a mall-setting and isn’t even a blend with the local culture, but rather a replacement of it with Western one.

我去了马来西亚吉隆坡，发现它是我去过的最无聊的城市之一。进步/现代化本身并不坏，但当一个国家在追求现代化的过程中失去了自己的个性，它就失去了旅行者对它的兴趣。
这就是为什么日本是许多西方游客的魅力之源——非常发达同时有很强的文化意识，一众独特的发达。当我回到印度的时候，我也尽量不去有Zara专卖店的商场。
当我说这里没有什么“印度味”的时候，这并不是说印度人不能有购物中心，这只是意味着我不会把这种购物体验与印度身份联系起来，因为它主要在商场里出售西式服装，甚至都没有融入当地文化，而是用西方文化取而代之。
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Joey Bryan
I remember being in a shopping mall in India and thinking, “This isn''''t India.”
It was then that I realised, it was India, since everyone in there was Indian!
People claim that the world is becoming westernised, or ‘Americanised’, but I don''''t see it that way. What I see is the spread of consumerism, a social/economic model that just happened to start in the west.
It''''s similar to the industrial revolution. Industrialised countries are not considered to be ‘westernised’, they''''re industrialised. The same goes for consumerism, for which countries become commercialised.
I agree it''''s very dull, anyway. The same brands in the same kinds of places all over the world.

我还记得我在印度某个购物中心的时候，当时心里就想：“这里没有印度味”。
但随后我又意识到，这里就是印度，周围都是印度人！
人们说世界正变得西方化或“美国化”，但我不这么看。我看到的是消费主义的蔓延，这种社会/经济模式恰好始于西方。
这类似于工业革命。
工业化国家不被认为是“西方化”的，它们是工业化的。
消费主义也是如此，国家因此而商业化。不管怎么说，我同意它很无聊。同样的品牌在全世界同样的地方。

Siddharth Bhattacharya
I understand your point. A shopping mall is India. But it’s ridiculous because it’s 50% or more Western chains and a lot of the “local” shops also sell Western-style clothing. It’s hard to say it’s not coming at the expense of local culture, especially the association of status by local population at things which appear Western (including food).

我能理解你的要点，印度的购物中心。
但这很荒谬，因为有50%或更多的西方连锁店和许多“本地”商店也出售西式服装。
但很难说这不是以牺牲当地文化为代价的，考虑到当地人对西方事物(包括食物)的地位。

Joey Bryan
You’re right. However I forgot to add the major part of my point!
The outstanding factor is that these bland shopping malls don’t represent western culture either! Do you think that I feel ‘at home’ in a place like this? It’s a horrible consumer deathzone designed for nothing other than easing the flow of money to and from those who are there.
Every country has its own real culture. E.g. British culture is all about beautiful countryside, going to the pub, being polite and moaning about the weather. We have tons of bland shopping malls, but nobody would ever saying that it’s a British thing. I bet Americans don’t think of shopping as ‘American culture’ either.
I think my point is that this shopping phenomenon is a whole new thing in itself. Your distaste for such things as being ‘non-Indian’ are just the same as my distaste at them being non-British.

你是对的。不过我忘记补充我的观点的主要部分!
最突出的一点就是，这些平淡无奇的购物中心本身也不代表西方文化!
你觉得在这样的地方我会有“家”的感觉吗?这就是一个可怕的消费者死亡地带，其设计初衷无非是为了方便资金的进出。
每个国家都有自己真正的文化。英国文化就是关于美丽的乡村、酒吧、礼貌、抱怨天气。我们有很多平淡无奇的购物中心，但没人会说这是英国的特色。我打赌美国人也不认为购物是“美国文化”。
我认为我的观点是，这种购物现象本身是一个全新的事物。你对“没有印度味”的厌恶和我对它们“没有英国味”的厌恶是一样的。

Siddharth Bhattacharya
You are right- it’s definitely an American export though. Doesn’t mean Americans have to like it- just that it’s their cultural export and “soft power” export

你说得对。这毫无疑问是美国的文化输出。这不以未来美国人必须要喜欢这种文化。单纯就是美国的文化输出和软实力输出。

Da Peracini
Sorry saying that way, but if thinking like that gives you a good sleep, keep it up!
Although all the advances we have as world society have contribution from many different cultures, it''''s undeniable that most of our culture, clothes , music have Western influence. I live in Dubai, a city full of many Asian people. And we can see when they are wearing Western clothes mixed with their culture. Indian people in general tend to use a mix of colours that aren''''t very common in Western countries. I''''m from Brazil, westernized country. There are differences.
Industrialized is technology, is different from culture. Technology works the same everywhere in the world. Physic doesn''''t change because of your localization, culture does.

很抱歉这么说，但如果你这么想能让你睡个好觉的话，那请便吧！
尽管世界各地的社会进步都来自许多不同的文化，但不可否认的是，我们绝大多数的文化、服装和音乐都受到了西方的影响。我住在迪拜，一个到处都是亚洲人的城市。我们可以看到，他们穿着混合了自己文化的西式服装。一般来说，印度人倾向于使用在西方国家不常见的混合颜色。我来自巴西，一个西方化的国家，我们之间也有区别。
工业化是科技，跟源自文化那些事物不同。科技在世界各地都是一样的。医学不会因为你所处的位置、本地文化而发生改变。

Raymond Teh
I am a Malaysian, though I’m not living in KL but I visit KL sometimes. KL is boring to you is it because you expect to see the peoples of Malaysian but instead all around KL, you saw peoples which looks like Indians and Pakistans where in your country you would see them everyday? To be honest in the 80’s KL was a interesting place to visit especially the Chinatown areas but now the influx of foreign labour especially from Bangladesh, India and pakistan was so huge that they occupies everywhere in KL. Last month I visit KLCC the twin towers, at the pool areas the visitors its like almost 65% Indian, Bangladeshi, … maybe this is reason you say KL is boring. If a country modernisation will make it loose it’s identity and become boring, then why not you mentioned Singapore or Dubai or Shanghai… or perhaps you haven’t visit that city yet to include in your comment.

我是马来西亚人，虽然我不住在吉隆坡，但我有时会去吉隆坡。吉隆坡对你来说很无聊，是因为你希望看到马来西亚人，但是在吉隆坡周围，你看到的是印度人和巴基斯坦人——而在你的国家，你每天会在那里看到他们。
说实话，在80年代，吉隆坡是一个有趣的地方，尤其是唐人街地区，但现在外国劳工的涌入，尤其是来自孟加拉国、印度和巴基斯坦的劳工大量涌入，占据了吉隆坡的每一个地方。
上个月我去参观了吉隆坡的双子塔，在水池附近的游客65%的人都是印度人和孟加拉人……
也许这就是你说吉隆坡很无聊的原因吧。
如果一个国家的现代化会让它失去自己的身份，变得乏味，那你为什么不提新加坡、迪拜或上海呢？
或许你还没有访问过那些城市。

Siddharth Bhattacharya
I definitely don’t intend to visit Singapore or Shanghai or Dubai - that’s why cant comment with first hand experience . Nothing against KL- it is a city I happened to be there in- gave it a honest try. To be fair I was surprised by level of development there. I was expecting something closer to Thailand having been there twice before but it’s wayyy more developed- which is a great thing. It does have its nice sightseeing activities, but it’s hard to see spending more time there- it resembles an average western country too much, which could be a very good thing as it’s better to be developed and thriving than be an exotic site for travelers. Melacca is nice and touristy and I liked it- so as a tourist you just need to go other more touristy cities,
And no it has nothing to do with influx of Indians, Bangladeshi or any other immigrants.

我完全不打算去新加坡、上海或迪拜——这就是为什么我没法用第一手经验去评论它们。
倒不是我不喜欢吉隆坡，这只是一个我碰巧去过的城市，所以实话实说。
公平地说，我对那里的发展水平感到惊讶。我之前去过两次，本来以为会是更接近泰国的地方，但是那里要发达得多——这是件好事。它确实很适合观光，但是很难在当地消磨时光，它太像一个普通的西方国家了，这可能是一件很好的事情，因为这有助于蓬勃发展，但这里不是一个对外国游客具有异国风情的地方。
马六甲是个不错的旅游胜地，我很喜欢，所以作为一名游客，你只需要去更多的旅游城市就足够了。
另外，不，这与印度人、孟加拉国人或其他移民的涌入无关。

Tommy Sutarno
Western tourists and those so-called “travelers” are only in for those “asian feels and experience”… They see no point in looking at modernized city culture like KL or Jakarta or any other metropolitan city basically. Indonesian government understands this: that’s why Jakarta tourism is so underwhelming while Bali or Central Java is extremely popularized.

西方游客和那些所谓的“游客”只是为了来寻求那些“亚洲人的感觉和体验”
他们基本上看不出像吉隆坡或雅加达或任何其他大都市有什么特点。
印尼政府明白这一点:这就是为什么雅加达的旅游业如此平庸，而巴厘岛或爪哇中部却非常受欢迎。

Alex Naylor
I''''m honest-enough to admit that I am looking for “asian feels and experience”. That is why I''''ll be spending little-to-no time in Shanghai but (hopefully) a month in Yunnan and Sichuan.

我非常认同你说的那句，我是在寻求“亚洲人的感觉和体验”。
这就是我不会花时间去上海，而希望去云南和四川度过一个月的原因。

Hoan Go
it makes no sense to me. Sichuan and Yunnan are very different to Shanghai traditionally, they belong to different cultural regions. Especially Yunnan, where you would find quite a strong ethnic minority influence. It makes no sense to consider these places more authentic than Shanghai. To me there''''s no where more authentic to feel Wu Chinese culture than Shanghai and its surrounding cities like Hangzhou. If you want to go to Sichuan then expect Sichuan culture. There''''s no such thing as the authentic Asian or the authentic China. Asia and China have multitudes of cultural regions, each very distinct and unique. It''''s like people going to Sapa to experience authentic Vietnamese culture. But wait, Sapa is the hometown of the ethnic Hmong! They have their own culture and language. You wouldn''''t say they are traditionally Vietnamese. No Vietnamese go to Sapa to experience traditional Vietnamese culture, the only people who say this are foreigners. Nor anyone would say Sapa is more authentic than Hanoi, or Hanoi more authentic than Saigon. Each place has its own culture, totally different and unique from the others.

这说的这些对我来说毫无意义。
四川和云南传统上与上海有很大的不同，它们属于不同的文化区域。尤其是云南，那里有很多的少数民族文化。认为这些地方比上海更正宗是没有意义的。
对我来说，没有什么地方比上海和杭州这样的周边城市更能真实地感受吴地文化了。
如果你想去四川，那就期待体验四川文化吧。这里没有所谓的真正的亚洲人，也没有所谓的真正的中国，亚洲和中国有许多不同的文化区域，每一个都非常独特。这就像人们去萨帕岛体验地道的越南文化一样。
但等等，萨帕是苗族的故乡!他们有自己的文化和语言。你不能说他们是传统的越南人。没有越南人去Sapa体验越南的传统文化，只有外国人这么说。也没有人会说萨帕比河内更正宗，或者河内比西贡更正宗。每个地方都有自己的文化，完全不同于其他地方。

Luiz Caldeira
Modernized cities are boring and look all similar. They all “modernize” to look like any North American city or London, and lose whatever unique and interesting they had. They become boring. I’m sure it’s not just westerners that think so.

现代化的城市很无聊，而且看起来都很相似。他们都很“现代化”，看起来像任何一个北美城市或伦敦，失去了他们所拥有的任何独特和有趣的东西。他们变得单调无聊了。
我相信不只是西方人这么想。

Maciej Stoinski
So London is some kind of generic big modern city? I beg to differ. London has its own unique history and it is very tangible when you are there. London does have a clear identity that has been shaped during thousands of years and it simply cannot be replicated.
New York or Dubai were also shaped by the times from when they were founded and it is very obvious which of the three is new, a few hundred years old and more than 2000 years old.
I don''''t know KL or Jakarta enough to compare but I can''''t imagine that they managed to copy something that was formed through such a long time.
Just because a city is relatively new doesn''''t mean it''''s simply a copy of something else. Dubai for example is rather unique because of how it developed during a 10-15 year period and made use of its waterfront to create canals and islands in a previously rather boring, flat landscape.

所以伦敦是某种普通的现代大城市?恕我不能苟同。
伦敦有其独特的历史，当你在那里时，它是切实可感的。伦敦有一个经过数千年塑造的清晰的身份，它是无法复制的。
纽约和迪拜从成立之初就受到时代的影响，这三座城市哪座是全新的、哪座有几百年的历史、哪座有2000多年的历史，是显而易见的。
我不太了解吉隆坡和雅加达，但我无法想象这些山寨的城市有什么悠久的东西。
一个城市相对较新，并不意味着它只是其他城市的复制品。
例如，迪拜是相当独特的，因为它在10-15年的时间里就发展了起来，并利用其滨水区在以前相当乏味、平坦的景观中建造运河和岛屿。
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Hilo Bay Ba
Answered Jun 1You don’t look Vietnamese. Are you Chinese/Korean/Japanese? I thought Vietnamese have dark skin…Really what do you expect Vietnamese to look like??The South is of a different race from the North. No, we are the same people, same race and culture.Southern Vietnam was a different kingdom with Indian influenced culture. NO! We took over Cambodia and Champa to form the Southern part of Vietnam. They were not Vietnamese.Vietnamese are communists. Ha HaVietnamese will soon get fat because of Western fast food and McDonald’s. Those poor Vietnamese getting exploited again. No. We have plenty of those fast food options however they are not popular in Vietnam. Our next generation will more likely get fat because of all those all you can eat BBQ, hotpot and boba tea. Boba tea especially, there are now a million of those brands in Vietnam and my cousins drink them everyday

1. 你看起来不像越南人。你是中国/韩国/日本吗?我以为越南人的皮肤很黑呢。——你以为越南人长什么样??
2. 南方和北方是不同的种族。——不，我们是同样的人，同样的种族拥有同样的文化。
3. 越南南部是一个不同的王国，受到印度文化的影响。——不!我们占领了柬埔寨和占婆，形成了越南的南部，他们过去不是越南人。
4.越南是共产主义国家。——哈哈哈哈
5. 由于西式快餐和麦当劳，越南人很快就会变胖。那些可怜的越南人又被剥削了。——不。我们有很多快餐选择，但是它们在越南不受欢迎。我们的下一代更有可能发胖，因为你可以吃烧烤、火锅和珍珠奶茶。尤其是珍珠奶茶，现在在越南有海量的奶茶品牌，我的堂兄弟们每天都喝。
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Why does Vietnam need to build fancy things while Vietnam is still a poor country and the Vietnamese are suffering, how do regular Vietnamese who are starving benefit from this? This infuriates me the most. Vietnam now has many big private companies and a lot of potential. Vingroup is sponsoring the Formula 1 race and apparently many countries have issues with this because the “Communists” only care for the elite and leaving poor Vietnamese people who cannot afford these big fancy thingsThe North is more Chinese and the South is more Southeast Asian, Vietnam is like 2 different countries. Uhh the South is actually more Chinese influenced due to recent Chinese settlement all over South Vietnam. The South is not like a different country! There is also the Central Vietnam which is even more different than the difference between North and South Vietnam!! Also Central Vietnam also has Chinese influence, they are not Champans. Have you guys ever been to Hoi An and check out the communal halls of the Chinese traders that settled there?

6.为什么越南在仍然是一个贫穷的国家越南人还在遭受苦难的时候，需要建造一些奇特的东西？挨饿的普通越南人又如何从中受益呢?——这最让我生气。越南现在有许多大型私营企业，潜力巨大。Vingroup甚至赞助f1赛事，显然许多国家对此有异议，因为（他们认为）“XX主义者”只关心精英阶层，而让贫穷的越南人民买不起这些昂贵的东西。
7. 北方更像中国，南方更像东南亚，越南像是两个不同的国家。——由于中国人最近在南越的定居，南方实际上受到了更多中国人的影响。南方不像一个不同的国家!还有越南中部，比南越和北越的差异更大! 越南中部也有中国的影响，他们不是占婆人。你们有没有去过惠安，看看那里的公共大厅里的常驻中国商人?
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The Northern and Southern Vietnamese hate each other. Uhh the Northern Vietnamese hate and distrust each other, while the Southern Vietnamese distrust the Northern Vietnamese is more accurate. The whole country is afraid of Haiphong and Thanh Hoa people.How can Vietnam, a poor country achieve such good PISA/other international competition results. The result must be rigged.Vietnam is taken over by foreign companies. There are no franchise in Vietnam. No there are a lot of native Vietnamese franchises. Vietnam doesn’t need StarBucks when there’s a Highlands coffee everywhere. Starbucks is not popular in Vietnam, Many foreign companies have closed and moved out of the Vietnamese market because they cannot compete against local brands. One example is the recently closed Auchan markets.

8. 北越和南越互相仇视。——北越人互相讨厌互不信任，与此同时南越人对北越人相对更不信任。整个国家都害怕海防和清化的人。
9. 越南，一个穷国，怎么能在国际学生评估项目（PISA）/其他国际竞赛中取得这么好的成绩呢?结果一定是人为操纵的。
10. 越南被外国公司占据了。——当到处都是高地咖啡的时候，越南不需要星巴克。星巴克在越南不受欢迎，许多外国公司已经关闭并撤出越南市场，因为他们无法与当地品牌竞争。最近关闭的欧尚市场就是一个例子。