我的外祖父是立陶宛的民族英雄，但他也是纳粹
正文翻译
When I was growing up in Chicago during the Cold War, my parents taught me to revere my Lithuanian heritage. We sang Lithuanian songs and recited Lithuanian poems; after Lithuanian school on Saturdays, I would eat Lithuanian-style potato pancakes.
冷战期间我在美国芝加哥长大，父母教导我要尊敬我的立陶宛文化传统。我们唱立陶宛歌曲，朗诵立陶宛诗歌；周六，立陶宛语言学校放学后，我会吃立陶宛风格的土豆煎饼。
When I was growing up in Chicago during the Cold War, my parents taught me to revere my Lithuanian heritage. We sang Lithuanian songs and recited Lithuanian poems; after Lithuanian school on Saturdays, I would eat Lithuanian-style potato pancakes.
冷战期间我在美国芝加哥长大，父母教导我要尊敬我的立陶宛文化传统。我们唱立陶宛歌曲，朗诵立陶宛诗歌；周六，立陶宛语言学校放学后，我会吃立陶宛风格的土豆煎饼。
My grandfather, Jonas Noreika, was a particularly important part of my family story: He was the mastermind of a 1945-1946 revolt against the Soviet unx, and was executed. A picture of him in his military uniform hung in our living room. Today, he is a hero not just in my family. He has streets, plaques and a school named after him. He was awarded the Cross of the Vytis, Lithuania’s highest posthumous honor.
我的外祖父乔纳斯·诺雷卡是我家族故事中一个特别重要的人：他是1945年至1946年反苏起义的策划者，后来被处决。他穿着军装的照片挂在我们的客厅里。现在，他不仅是我家的英雄。有一条街道和一所学校也以他的名字命名。他被追授立陶宛最高的荣誉维蒂斯十字架勋章。
我的外祖父乔纳斯·诺雷卡是我家族故事中一个特别重要的人：他是1945年至1946年反苏起义的策划者，后来被处决。他穿着军装的照片挂在我们的客厅里。现在，他不仅是我家的英雄。有一条街道和一所学校也以他的名字命名。他被追授立陶宛最高的荣誉维蒂斯十字架勋章。
On her deathbed in 2000, my mother asked me to take over writing a book about her father. I eagerly agreed. But as I sifted through the material, I came across a document with his signature from 1941 and everything changed. The story of my grandfather was much darker than I had known.
2000年，母亲临终时要我接手为外祖父写传记的任务。我热切地同意了。但是，当我翻阅资料的时候，我偶然发现了一份1941年的他签了名的文件，从此，一切都变了。我外祖父的故事比我所知道的要黑暗得多。
2000年，母亲临终时要我接手为外祖父写传记的任务。我热切地同意了。但是，当我翻阅资料的时候，我偶然发现了一份1941年的他签了名的文件，从此，一切都变了。我外祖父的故事比我所知道的要黑暗得多。
I learned that the man I had believed was a savior who did all he could to rescue Jews during World War II had, in reality, ordered all Jews in his region of Lithuania to be rounded up and sent to a ghetto where they were beaten, starved, tortured, raped and then murdered. More than 95 percent of Lithuania’s Jews died during World War II, many of them killed with the eager collaboration of their neighbors.
我所相信的那个在二战期间竭尽全力营救犹太人的救世主外祖父，实际上下令围捕了立陶宛他所在地区的所有犹太人，将他们送进一个犹太聚居区，在那里，他们遭受殴打、饥饿、折磨、强奸然后被杀害。立陶宛超过95%的犹太人在二战中丧生，许多人是在邻居的积极配合下被杀的。
我所相信的那个在二战期间竭尽全力营救犹太人的救世主外祖父，实际上下令围捕了立陶宛他所在地区的所有犹太人，将他们送进一个犹太聚居区，在那里，他们遭受殴打、饥饿、折磨、强奸然后被杀害。立陶宛超过95%的犹太人在二战中丧生，许多人是在邻居的积极配合下被杀的。
Suddenly, I no longer had any idea who my grandfather was, what Lithuania was, and how my own story fit in. How could I reconcile two realities? Was Jonas Noreika a monster who slaughtered thousands of Jews or a hero who fought to save his country from the Communists?
突然间，我的外祖父和立陶宛，在我的眼里变得十分陌生，我心中的外祖父形象崩塌了，它分裂成了两个现实。我的外祖父到底是屠杀了成千上万犹太人的恶魔，还是为从苏联手中拯救国家的英雄？
突然间，我的外祖父和立陶宛，在我的眼里变得十分陌生，我心中的外祖父形象崩塌了，它分裂成了两个现实。我的外祖父到底是屠杀了成千上万犹太人的恶魔，还是为从苏联手中拯救国家的英雄？
I concluded that my grandfather was a man of paradoxes, just as Lithuania — a country caught between the Nazi and Communist occupations during World War II, then trapped behind the Iron Curtain for the next 50 years — is full of contradictions.
我得出的结论是，我的外祖父是一个充满了矛盾的人，就像立陶宛一样——二战期间被纳粹和苏联争夺占领，后来在铁幕政治下被困了50年。
我得出的结论是，我的外祖父是一个充满了矛盾的人，就像立陶宛一样——二战期间被纳粹和苏联争夺占领，后来在铁幕政治下被困了50年。
During this time, there was a deep freeze on the truth: Lithuanians were only allowed to talk about how many Soviet citizens were killed during World War II. References to Jewish victims were scrubbed away by the occupiers. I would like to think that if Lithuania had been a free and independent nation after World War II, it might have acknowledged its own role in the Holocaust.
在此期间，事实的真相被牢牢冻结：立陶宛人只被允许谈论二战期间被杀害的苏联公民。立陶宛人对犹太人的伤害，则被占领者抹去了。我认为，假如立陶宛在二战后成为了一个自由独立的国家，它可能会承认它在纳粹大屠杀中扮演的角色。
在此期间，事实的真相被牢牢冻结：立陶宛人只被允许谈论二战期间被杀害的苏联公民。立陶宛人对犹太人的伤害，则被占领者抹去了。我认为，假如立陶宛在二战后成为了一个自由独立的国家，它可能会承认它在纳粹大屠杀中扮演的角色。
Correcting historical memory turned out to be dangerous. When I publicly questioned the official story of my grandfather’s life, I was vilified by the Lithuanian community in Chicago and in Lithuania. I was called an agent of President Vladimir Putin of Russia. Lithuanian leaders still believe their country’s identity depends on holding onto its heroes, even at the cost of the truth.
纠正历史记忆原来是有危险的。当我公开质疑外祖父生平的官方故事时，我在芝加哥的立陶宛社区遭到了中伤。我被称为是俄罗斯总统普京的特工。立陶宛领导人仍然相信，他们国家的身份认同靠的是一位被塑造的英雄，就算牺牲事实真相也在所不惜。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
纠正历史记忆原来是有危险的。当我公开质疑外祖父生平的官方故事时，我在芝加哥的立陶宛社区遭到了中伤。我被称为是俄罗斯总统普京的特工。立陶宛领导人仍然相信，他们国家的身份认同靠的是一位被塑造的英雄，就算牺牲事实真相也在所不惜。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
In 1933, as a young soldier in the Lithuanian Army, he wrote “Raise Your Head Lithuanian,” Lithuania’s equivalent of “Mein Kampf,” which incited hate toward Jews as a solution to Lithuania’s problems. In June 1941, he led an uprising against the Soviets, even as he was collaborating with the Nazis. In July, he ordered the murder of all of the 2,000 Jews in Plunge, the town from which he led the uprising. In August, the Germans welcomed him as the new district chief of the Siauliai region, and the same month he signed orders to send thousands of Jews to their eventual deaths. Under his watch, roughly 8,000 Jews were killed.
1933年，我的外祖父是立陶宛军队的一名年轻士兵，写了《立陶宛人抬起头来》——相当于立陶宛的《我的奋斗》——煽动对犹太人的仇恨，以此作为解决立陶宛社会矛盾的方法。1941年6月，他与纳粹合作并领导了对苏联的起义。7月，他下令杀害起义所在的普朗日镇的全部2000名犹太人。8月，德国人赞同由他来担任希奥利艾地区的区长，同月，他签署了命令，将数千名犹太人送上黄泉。在他任内大约有8000名犹太人被杀。
1933年，我的外祖父是立陶宛军队的一名年轻士兵，写了《立陶宛人抬起头来》——相当于立陶宛的《我的奋斗》——煽动对犹太人的仇恨，以此作为解决立陶宛社会矛盾的方法。1941年6月，他与纳粹合作并领导了对苏联的起义。7月，他下令杀害起义所在的普朗日镇的全部2000名犹太人。8月，德国人赞同由他来担任希奥利艾地区的区长，同月，他签署了命令，将数千名犹太人送上黄泉。在他任内大约有8000名犹太人被杀。
In the version of history that is now celebrated by Lithuanians, my grandfather and others like him were forced to sign those documents by the Germans. But when I dug deeper, I learned that becoming district chief brought him the best house in the region, about 1,000 reichsmarks each month and a job for my grandmother. That sounded to me more like temptation than coercion.
在立陶宛人现在传颂的历史版本中，我的外祖父和其他像他一样的人，被德国人强迫签署了这些文件。但是当我更深入地挖掘信息时，我了解到担任区长让他住上了该地区最好的房子，每月有1000马克薪俸，并且我的外祖母也有了一份工作。在我看来，这更像是诱惑而不是胁迫。
在立陶宛人现在传颂的历史版本中，我的外祖父和其他像他一样的人，被德国人强迫签署了这些文件。但是当我更深入地挖掘信息时，我了解到担任区长让他住上了该地区最好的房子，每月有1000马克薪俸，并且我的外祖母也有了一份工作。在我看来，这更像是诱惑而不是胁迫。
He did stand up to the Nazis, not by saving Jews but by trying to stymie recruitment for the SS. In March 1943, he was sent to a Nazi concentration camp. He was released in January 1945, then conscxted by the Red Army. Later that year, he began organizing the revolt against the Soviets, who had turned from Lithuania’s liberators to its occupiers. The Soviets captured him the next March. He was executed in February 1947 at the age of 36.
但他也确实反抗过纳粹，但不是通过拯救犹太人，而是阻挠党卫军在立陶宛的征兵。1943年3月，他被送进纳粹集中营。他于1945年1月获释，然后被红军征召入伍。那年晚些时候，他开始组织对苏联的叛乱，因为苏联人已经从立陶宛的解放者变成了占领者。苏联在翌年3月将他俘虏。他于1947年2月被处决，享年36岁。
但他也确实反抗过纳粹，但不是通过拯救犹太人，而是阻挠党卫军在立陶宛的征兵。1943年3月，他被送进纳粹集中营。他于1945年1月获释，然后被红军征召入伍。那年晚些时候，他开始组织对苏联的叛乱，因为苏联人已经从立陶宛的解放者变成了占领者。苏联在翌年3月将他俘虏。他于1947年2月被处决，享年36岁。
Transforming a Nazi collaborator into a national hero requires four steps of manipulation. One step shifts all the blame to the Nazis, even though my grandfather, like many Lithuanians, willingly participated in slaughtering Jews. The second step creates a victim narrative, asking how a Jew killer could be sent to a Nazi concentration camp. The third step discredits counternarratives by labeling them as Communist propaganda told by enemies of the state. The final step refuses to accept that two seemingly contradictory truths can coexist: Noreika bravely fought against the Communists and shamefully participated in killing Jews.
将纳粹合作者转变为民族英雄需要四个篡改步骤。
第一步，将所有责任归罪于纳粹，即使我的外祖父像许多立陶宛人一样自愿参加了对犹太人的屠杀。
第二步，创造一个受害者形象，质问一个杀戮犹太人的人怎么会被送进纳粹集中营。
第三步，诋毁与宣传相左的叙事，称其是国家敌人进行的共产主义宣传。
最后一步，拒绝接受两个看似矛盾的真相能够共存：我的外祖父勇敢地抗击苏联，同时参与了杀害犹太人的可耻勾当。
将纳粹合作者转变为民族英雄需要四个篡改步骤。
第一步，将所有责任归罪于纳粹，即使我的外祖父像许多立陶宛人一样自愿参加了对犹太人的屠杀。
第二步，创造一个受害者形象，质问一个杀戮犹太人的人怎么会被送进纳粹集中营。
第三步，诋毁与宣传相左的叙事，称其是国家敌人进行的共产主义宣传。
最后一步，拒绝接受两个看似矛盾的真相能够共存：我的外祖父勇敢地抗击苏联，同时参与了杀害犹太人的可耻勾当。
After researching his life for the past 20 years, I’ve dared to call my grandfather a Nazi even though he never officially joined the party. He worked with the Nazis, acted like them, was paid by them, hated Jews like them and, like them, facilitated torture and murder.
在花了20年研究他的生活后，我把我的外祖父称为纳粹，即使他从未正式加入该党。他与纳粹一起工作，以他们的方式行事，得到了他们的报酬，像他们一样憎恨犹太人，并像他们一样，促成了酷刑和杀戮。
在花了20年研究他的生活后，我把我的外祖父称为纳粹，即使他从未正式加入该党。他与纳粹一起工作，以他们的方式行事，得到了他们的报酬，像他们一样憎恨犹太人，并像他们一样，促成了酷刑和杀戮。
Did Lithuanian officials actively hide the truth because it would make the country look bad? Or were they in genuine denial in a democracy too fragile to face its own history? Unfortunately, this isn’t just about my grandfather. He is a microcosm of the entire national story, and that national story echoes across Eastern Europe.
立陶宛官员积极掩盖真相，是因为真相会让这个国家颜面尽失？或者他们是真的拒绝接受，他们的民主制度脆弱到无法面对自己的历史？不幸的是，这不仅仅是关于我的外祖父。他是整个民族故事的缩影，而这样的民族故事在东欧各地回荡。
立陶宛官员积极掩盖真相，是因为真相会让这个国家颜面尽失？或者他们是真的拒绝接受，他们的民主制度脆弱到无法面对自己的历史？不幸的是，这不仅仅是关于我的外祖父。他是整个民族故事的缩影，而这样的民族故事在东欧各地回荡。
The passage of time has created the space to speak about the truth, but also increased the urgency of doing so before remaining memories fade and another generation passes. Analysis of a dark past is always traumatic. But we will never achieve clarity and healing if we base our history on lies. Although later generations might not know the details, they will still experience the emotional pain passed down from parent to child to grandchild.
时间的流逝创造了谈论真相的空间，但同时也增加了紧迫性，历史的真相正在消失，又一代人将要离去。对黑暗过去的分析总是很痛苦的。但是，如果我们的历史以谎言为基础，我们将永远无法获得澄清和治愈。尽管后代可能不知道细节，但他们仍然会经历由父母传给孩子再传给孙子的情感痛苦。
时间的流逝创造了谈论真相的空间，但同时也增加了紧迫性，历史的真相正在消失，又一代人将要离去。对黑暗过去的分析总是很痛苦的。但是，如果我们的历史以谎言为基础，我们将永远无法获得澄清和治愈。尽管后代可能不知道细节，但他们仍然会经历由父母传给孩子再传给孙子的情感痛苦。
I have made my peace with my grandfather. I have vowed to reveal his crimes by giving witness to the truth, and I have vowed to try to correct Lithuania’s memory of the Holocaust, in part by asking for honors bestowed on him to be stripped. This can lead to reconciliation between Lithuanians and Jews as we remember what happened and learn from it to ensure it never happens again. Perhaps acknowledging this truth will allow Lithuanians to have a healthier national identity and a pride in our poetry, our language, our food — but not our dark past.
我已经重新接纳我的外祖父。我发誓要通过挖掘真相来揭露他的罪行，并发誓要纠正立陶宛对大屠杀的记忆，部分剥夺他获得的荣誉。当我们记住发生的事情并从中吸取教训以确保不再发生时，可能会促成立陶宛人与犹太人之间和解。也许承认这一事实将使立陶宛人拥有更健康的民族认同，并为我们的诗歌、语言、食物感到自豪——而不是我们的黑暗的过去。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
我已经重新接纳我的外祖父。我发誓要通过挖掘真相来揭露他的罪行，并发誓要纠正立陶宛对大屠杀的记忆，部分剥夺他获得的荣誉。当我们记住发生的事情并从中吸取教训以确保不再发生时，可能会促成立陶宛人与犹太人之间和解。也许承认这一事实将使立陶宛人拥有更健康的民族认同，并为我们的诗歌、语言、食物感到自豪——而不是我们的黑暗的过去。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
评论翻译
lemon_meringue
I can relate to this; my people on my mother's side were from the American South - Richmond, capitol of the Confederacy. They were secessionists who fought for the Confederacy, were part of the seditious government of that time, and owned many plantations between them.
Their last name is very common in the Black community, because they owned so, so many slaves. I just found this out about five years ago, and it was a huge reckoning for me. It also made me get more active in local politics and the Black Lives Matter/slavery reparations movement in particular.
I recognize that large portions of my actual, literal inheritance came through the blood and pain of countless enslaved people, thanks to the despicable actions of my ancestors. It's very sobering and painful to sift through that family history, but I feel it's my personal duty to do just that.
我能理解这一点，我母亲那边的人来自美国南部的里士满，也就是南部邦联的首府。他们是为南部邦联而战的分离主义者，是当时煽动内战的一员，他们拥有许多种植园。
他们的姓氏在黑人社区很常见，因为他们拥有非常多的奴隶。我大约在五年前才发现这一点，这对我来说是一个巨大的刺激。这也让我在当地政治中变得更加活跃，特别是黑命贵/奴隶制赔偿运动。
我认识到，由于我祖先的卑鄙行为，我继承的遗产有很大一部分来自无数被奴役的人的鲜血和痛苦。翻阅那段家族历史是非常发人深省和痛苦的，但我觉得重新认识这段历史是我个人的责任。
I can relate to this; my people on my mother's side were from the American South - Richmond, capitol of the Confederacy. They were secessionists who fought for the Confederacy, were part of the seditious government of that time, and owned many plantations between them.
Their last name is very common in the Black community, because they owned so, so many slaves. I just found this out about five years ago, and it was a huge reckoning for me. It also made me get more active in local politics and the Black Lives Matter/slavery reparations movement in particular.
I recognize that large portions of my actual, literal inheritance came through the blood and pain of countless enslaved people, thanks to the despicable actions of my ancestors. It's very sobering and painful to sift through that family history, but I feel it's my personal duty to do just that.
我能理解这一点，我母亲那边的人来自美国南部的里士满，也就是南部邦联的首府。他们是为南部邦联而战的分离主义者，是当时煽动内战的一员，他们拥有许多种植园。
他们的姓氏在黑人社区很常见，因为他们拥有非常多的奴隶。我大约在五年前才发现这一点，这对我来说是一个巨大的刺激。这也让我在当地政治中变得更加活跃，特别是黑命贵/奴隶制赔偿运动。
我认识到，由于我祖先的卑鄙行为，我继承的遗产有很大一部分来自无数被奴役的人的鲜血和痛苦。翻阅那段家族历史是非常发人深省和痛苦的，但我觉得重新认识这段历史是我个人的责任。
Anwhatevyr
There's a sense of guilt and shame in Germans born decades after WW2. No one would speak positively of what happened/what ancestors did in the 30s/40s, much less glorify it. For the most part the topic of WW2 is honestly avoided, which I don't think is a bad way to handle it. We don't deny it, we're all very much aware of it, but it's rare to talk about one's ancestors from that era.
二战后几十年出生的德国人都有一种负罪感和羞耻感。在这里，没有人对祖先在30/40年代所做的事情给予积极评价，更不用说美化它了。在很大程度上，人们总是回避第二次世界大战的话题，我认为这种处理方式还行。我们不否认二战德国的罪恶，我们都非常清楚这一点，但很少有人谈论那个时代的祖先。
There's a sense of guilt and shame in Germans born decades after WW2. No one would speak positively of what happened/what ancestors did in the 30s/40s, much less glorify it. For the most part the topic of WW2 is honestly avoided, which I don't think is a bad way to handle it. We don't deny it, we're all very much aware of it, but it's rare to talk about one's ancestors from that era.
二战后几十年出生的德国人都有一种负罪感和羞耻感。在这里，没有人对祖先在30/40年代所做的事情给予积极评价，更不用说美化它了。在很大程度上，人们总是回避第二次世界大战的话题，我认为这种处理方式还行。我们不否认二战德国的罪恶，我们都非常清楚这一点，但很少有人谈论那个时代的祖先。
Bane2019a
I don't think personal guilt over your ancestors is necessarily the best thing...obviously somebody had no control over what their great grandfather did, but to glorify and honor it and pretend it didn't happen is a whole other thing.
我不认为个人对祖先所做的事感到愧疚一定是好事……人们无法控制他们曾祖父的所作所为，但美化和洗白祖先的丑事，并假装它没有发生过则完全是另一回事。
I don't think personal guilt over your ancestors is necessarily the best thing...obviously somebody had no control over what their great grandfather did, but to glorify and honor it and pretend it didn't happen is a whole other thing.
我不认为个人对祖先所做的事感到愧疚一定是好事……人们无法控制他们曾祖父的所作所为，但美化和洗白祖先的丑事，并假装它没有发生过则完全是另一回事。
celestialrage44
My great grandfather was part of the SS. He worked as a guard from 1943-1944 at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
Until the age of about 10 or 11 I grew up believing I was superior than everyone else because I was white and non Jewish. I was told that had I been alive in the “glory days” I would have been considered part of the aryan race. I used to bully a child in my class simply because of the fact he was Jewish - when I told my father he commended me and told me my great grandfather would have been proud.
However, since the age of 12 I have been working hard to get the racism out of my head that was drilled into me since I was young and I am now more forward thinking and thankfully racism free. (Which really annoys my dad)
我的曾祖父是党卫军的一员。1943年至1944年，他在卑尔根-贝尔森集中营担任警卫。
在大约10岁或11岁之前，我一直认为自己比任何人都优越，因为我是白人和非犹太人。有人告诉我，如果我还活在二战德国，我就会被认为是雅利安人种。我过去常常欺负班上的一个孩子，仅仅是因为他是犹太人--当我告诉父亲，他表扬了我，并告诉我，我的曾祖父会感到骄傲的。
然而，从12岁起，我就一直在努力摆脱从小就灌输在我脑海中的种族主义，现在我的思想更进步了，谢天谢地，我摆脱了种族主义。(这让我爸爸很恼火)。
My great grandfather was part of the SS. He worked as a guard from 1943-1944 at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.
Until the age of about 10 or 11 I grew up believing I was superior than everyone else because I was white and non Jewish. I was told that had I been alive in the “glory days” I would have been considered part of the aryan race. I used to bully a child in my class simply because of the fact he was Jewish - when I told my father he commended me and told me my great grandfather would have been proud.
However, since the age of 12 I have been working hard to get the racism out of my head that was drilled into me since I was young and I am now more forward thinking and thankfully racism free. (Which really annoys my dad)
我的曾祖父是党卫军的一员。1943年至1944年，他在卑尔根-贝尔森集中营担任警卫。
在大约10岁或11岁之前，我一直认为自己比任何人都优越，因为我是白人和非犹太人。有人告诉我，如果我还活在二战德国，我就会被认为是雅利安人种。我过去常常欺负班上的一个孩子，仅仅是因为他是犹太人--当我告诉父亲，他表扬了我，并告诉我，我的曾祖父会感到骄傲的。
然而，从12岁起，我就一直在努力摆脱从小就灌输在我脑海中的种族主义，现在我的思想更进步了，谢天谢地，我摆脱了种族主义。(这让我爸爸很恼火)。
questionforyou_12
Was there a specific event that made you have a change of heart?
是什么特别的事情让你改变了思想？
Was there a specific event that made you have a change of heart?
是什么特别的事情让你改变了思想？
celestialrage44
I distinctly remember seeing a documentary or some sort of movie on the holocaust and it went in depth about the atrocities of the Nazi party - specifically Josef Mengele and his experiments.
I thought to myself “that can’t be right” and so I researched more and more about what the SS and Nazis did (via books and some limited internet stuff when I was allowed on the computer) and after reading all the horrendous things they did it made me sick to my stomach. Bear in mind I was an impressionable 11ish year old but I still had a moral compass.
My dad never went into what exactly the Nazis did, I was just told that all the inferior races and religions were exterminated
So yeah, it wasn’t really an instant change of heart but that documentary was the kick off point!
我看过一部关于大屠杀的纪录片，它深入讲述了纳粹党的暴行-特别是约瑟夫·门格勒和他的实验。
我对自己说“纳粹不可能是对的”，所以我越来越多地研究党卫军和纳粹的所作所为(通过书籍和一些有限的互联网内容，当我被允许使用电脑的时候)，在读完所有可怕的事情后，他们的所作所为让我反胃。请记住，我当时只有11岁左右，很容易受种族主义的影响，但我仍然有道德底线。
我父亲从来没有谈过纳粹到底做了什么，我只是被告知所有低级种族和宗教都被消灭了。
所以，是的，我并不是一瞬间改变了思想，但那部纪录片是起点
I distinctly remember seeing a documentary or some sort of movie on the holocaust and it went in depth about the atrocities of the Nazi party - specifically Josef Mengele and his experiments.
I thought to myself “that can’t be right” and so I researched more and more about what the SS and Nazis did (via books and some limited internet stuff when I was allowed on the computer) and after reading all the horrendous things they did it made me sick to my stomach. Bear in mind I was an impressionable 11ish year old but I still had a moral compass.
My dad never went into what exactly the Nazis did, I was just told that all the inferior races and religions were exterminated
So yeah, it wasn’t really an instant change of heart but that documentary was the kick off point!
我看过一部关于大屠杀的纪录片，它深入讲述了纳粹党的暴行-特别是约瑟夫·门格勒和他的实验。
我对自己说“纳粹不可能是对的”，所以我越来越多地研究党卫军和纳粹的所作所为(通过书籍和一些有限的互联网内容，当我被允许使用电脑的时候)，在读完所有可怕的事情后，他们的所作所为让我反胃。请记住，我当时只有11岁左右，很容易受种族主义的影响，但我仍然有道德底线。
我父亲从来没有谈过纳粹到底做了什么，我只是被告知所有低级种族和宗教都被消灭了。
所以，是的，我并不是一瞬间改变了思想，但那部纪录片是起点
modern_milkman
German here
First of all it is important to keep in mind that a ton of people were just minding their own business and adapted to the situation (it was only 12 years, after all). Many of the adults during that time had seen the German empire fall, and seen the Weimar republic rise, struggle and fall. So the third Reich was just another situation to adapt to for most, and the same applied for the time afterwards.
The children (those born between 1925 and 1935) were more of a problem, because they got raised with those views. But many of them were still young enough to change those views after 1945.
What I'm trying to say: the number of diehard Nazis after 1945 was a lot smaller than one might expect. And again: people were used to adapt, so they adapted to the new system. And the rest knew to keep their mouth shut.
Sure, some influenced their children. But in the 1960s, people started asking questions and dealt with their parents' past. And then, at the latest, being a Nazi meant being a social outcast, at least in the younger generations. Sure, some still held those views. But they were a tiny minority.
As for my own family: One great grandfather (who was a WWI veteran and a WWII officer) was a Prussian and a monarchist. He wasn't too fond of the Nazis, but (like so many) thought at first that they might make a difference. He was conservative for all his life, but never spoke a good word about the Nazis after 1945, and, as far as I know, was honest about that. My grandpa (born 1924), who was drafted into WWII in 1942, also didn't share any Nazi ideology, and thus my mom didn't, either.
我是德国人。
首先要记住，很多人只关心自己的事情，并适应形势变化(毕竟纳粹掌权只有12年)。在此期间，许多成年人目睹了德意志帝国的衰落，目睹了魏玛共和国的崛起、斗争和衰落。因此，对大多数人来说，第三帝国只是另一种需要适应的变化，后来的情况也是如此。
这些孩子(出生于1925年至1935年之间的孩子)更是一个问题，因为他们是在纳粹思想的熏陶下长大的。但他们中的许多人还很年轻，能够在1945年之后改变这些观点。
我想说的是：1945年以后，顽固的纳粹分子的数量比人们预期的要少得多。再说一次：人们习惯了适应，所以他们适应了新的时代环境。其大部分人都不再谈论过去。
当然，有些人影响了他们的孩子。但在20世纪60年代，人们开始提出问题，开始谈论父母的过去。而且，至少在年轻一代中，身为纳粹分子意味着被社会排斥。当然，有些人仍然持有这些观点。但他们只是极少数。
至于我自己的家庭：我的曾祖父(曾是一战老兵和二战军官)是普鲁士人和君主主义者。他不太喜欢纳粹，但(像许多人一样)认为纳粹会为德国带来改变。他一生都是保守的，但在1945年之后，他从未对纳粹说过一句好话，据我所知，他对此是诚实的。我的祖父(生于1924年)在1942年应征参加了第二次世界大战，他也没有任何纳粹思想，因此我母亲也没有。
German here
First of all it is important to keep in mind that a ton of people were just minding their own business and adapted to the situation (it was only 12 years, after all). Many of the adults during that time had seen the German empire fall, and seen the Weimar republic rise, struggle and fall. So the third Reich was just another situation to adapt to for most, and the same applied for the time afterwards.
The children (those born between 1925 and 1935) were more of a problem, because they got raised with those views. But many of them were still young enough to change those views after 1945.
What I'm trying to say: the number of diehard Nazis after 1945 was a lot smaller than one might expect. And again: people were used to adapt, so they adapted to the new system. And the rest knew to keep their mouth shut.
Sure, some influenced their children. But in the 1960s, people started asking questions and dealt with their parents' past. And then, at the latest, being a Nazi meant being a social outcast, at least in the younger generations. Sure, some still held those views. But they were a tiny minority.
As for my own family: One great grandfather (who was a WWI veteran and a WWII officer) was a Prussian and a monarchist. He wasn't too fond of the Nazis, but (like so many) thought at first that they might make a difference. He was conservative for all his life, but never spoke a good word about the Nazis after 1945, and, as far as I know, was honest about that. My grandpa (born 1924), who was drafted into WWII in 1942, also didn't share any Nazi ideology, and thus my mom didn't, either.
我是德国人。
首先要记住，很多人只关心自己的事情，并适应形势变化(毕竟纳粹掌权只有12年)。在此期间，许多成年人目睹了德意志帝国的衰落，目睹了魏玛共和国的崛起、斗争和衰落。因此，对大多数人来说，第三帝国只是另一种需要适应的变化，后来的情况也是如此。
这些孩子(出生于1925年至1935年之间的孩子)更是一个问题，因为他们是在纳粹思想的熏陶下长大的。但他们中的许多人还很年轻，能够在1945年之后改变这些观点。
我想说的是：1945年以后，顽固的纳粹分子的数量比人们预期的要少得多。再说一次：人们习惯了适应，所以他们适应了新的时代环境。其大部分人都不再谈论过去。
当然，有些人影响了他们的孩子。但在20世纪60年代，人们开始提出问题，开始谈论父母的过去。而且，至少在年轻一代中，身为纳粹分子意味着被社会排斥。当然，有些人仍然持有这些观点。但他们只是极少数。
至于我自己的家庭：我的曾祖父(曾是一战老兵和二战军官)是普鲁士人和君主主义者。他不太喜欢纳粹，但(像许多人一样)认为纳粹会为德国带来改变。他一生都是保守的，但在1945年之后，他从未对纳粹说过一句好话，据我所知，他对此是诚实的。我的祖父(生于1924年)在1942年应征参加了第二次世界大战，他也没有任何纳粹思想，因此我母亲也没有。
Phugu
Greetings from Germany.
My grandfather was in the Wehrmacht, not because he was a Nazi but he had to. Due to my job I got to know many old people, many of them had been soldiers during the war. Only a few said that they liked Hitler, most of them said that they just did their duty.
BUT, quite a few more non-military old people talked about how they thought that Hitler was a good guy, and he just wanted to safe the germans; he did sooo many good things, you know.. made it possible for the kids to have vacations and jobs for the adults etc pp.
My personal theory: While the people involved with the military were able to see behind the propaganda machine, the civilians were fooled by it.
And (besides the neo-nazis) nobody denies the atrocities commited by the nazis back then, it is an important part of our history lessons in school. Nothing gets glorified.
来自德国的问候。
我祖父曾隶属于德国国防军，不是因为他是纳粹分子，而是他不得不这么做。由于我的工作，我认识了许多老人，他们中的许多人在战争期间当过兵。只有少数人说他们喜欢希特勒，大多数人说他们只是尽职尽责。
但是，也有不少未参军的老人说，他们认为希特勒是个好人，他只是想保护德国人，他做了很多好事，你知道。让孩子们有了假期，大人们也有了工作，等等。
我个人的想法是：军方人员能够看到隐藏在宣传机器背后的一些真实的东西，平民往往被宣传机器愚弄了。
而且(除了新纳粹分子)没有人否认当年纳粹犯下的暴行，这是我们学校历史课上的一个重要部分。没有什么会被美化。
Greetings from Germany.
My grandfather was in the Wehrmacht, not because he was a Nazi but he had to. Due to my job I got to know many old people, many of them had been soldiers during the war. Only a few said that they liked Hitler, most of them said that they just did their duty.
BUT, quite a few more non-military old people talked about how they thought that Hitler was a good guy, and he just wanted to safe the germans; he did sooo many good things, you know.. made it possible for the kids to have vacations and jobs for the adults etc pp.
My personal theory: While the people involved with the military were able to see behind the propaganda machine, the civilians were fooled by it.
And (besides the neo-nazis) nobody denies the atrocities commited by the nazis back then, it is an important part of our history lessons in school. Nothing gets glorified.
来自德国的问候。
我祖父曾隶属于德国国防军，不是因为他是纳粹分子，而是他不得不这么做。由于我的工作，我认识了许多老人，他们中的许多人在战争期间当过兵。只有少数人说他们喜欢希特勒，大多数人说他们只是尽职尽责。
但是，也有不少未参军的老人说，他们认为希特勒是个好人，他只是想保护德国人，他做了很多好事，你知道。让孩子们有了假期，大人们也有了工作，等等。
我个人的想法是：军方人员能够看到隐藏在宣传机器背后的一些真实的东西，平民往往被宣传机器愚弄了。
而且(除了新纳粹分子)没有人否认当年纳粹犯下的暴行，这是我们学校历史课上的一个重要部分。没有什么会被美化。
Bodiwire
I think there is a lot of misplaced pride and guilt in regards to WW2. My grandfather fought in Europe for the US. He was even decorated for bravery. I wasn't. He had something to be proud of, not me. It had nothing to do with me. I don't feel I have any right to take pride in his accomplishments. And from what he told me about it I don't even think pride would quite be the right word to describe how he felt about his experience. He felt he took part in something horrible that unfortunately had to be done. Likewise, if your grandfather fought for the Wehrmacht or even if he was an SS camp commandant it has nothing to do with you. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
It seems odd to me that people think that modern Germans should feel uncomfortable when watching movies wher the nazis are the bad guys. When Americans watch movies set in the old west, no one is rooting for the US Army when they are trying to run the Indians off their land. We cheer Sitting Bull when he and his warriors destroy General Custer and his troops. But even still we don't exactly feel guilty that we may be watching the movie on the very land that the Indians were run off of. I don't expect that Germans would feel any different.
我认为关于战争，每个人都有很多错位的骄傲和负罪感。我祖父曾为美国在欧洲作战。他甚至被授予英勇勋章。我没有。他有属于值得自己骄傲的事，我没有，他的英勇与我无关。我觉得我没有任何权利为他的成就感到骄傲。从他告诉我的经历来看，我甚至不认为应该用骄傲这个词用来描述他的战斗经历。他觉得自己参与了一件可怕的事情，不幸的是，这件事必须要做。同样，如果你的祖父为德国国防军而战，或者即使他是党卫军的指挥官，那也与你无关。你没什么好羞耻的。
人们认为现代德国人在看抨击纳粹的电影时会感到不舒服，这对我来说似乎很奇怪。当美国人看以旧西部为背景的电影时，当美国军队试图把印第安人赶出他们的土地时，没有人会支持美国军队的做法。当印第安和他的战士摧毁卡斯特将军和他的军队时，我们为印第安人欢呼。即便我们可能是在印第安人失去的那片土地上观看这部电影，我们也并不真正感到内疚。我不认为德国人会有什么不同。
I think there is a lot of misplaced pride and guilt in regards to WW2. My grandfather fought in Europe for the US. He was even decorated for bravery. I wasn't. He had something to be proud of, not me. It had nothing to do with me. I don't feel I have any right to take pride in his accomplishments. And from what he told me about it I don't even think pride would quite be the right word to describe how he felt about his experience. He felt he took part in something horrible that unfortunately had to be done. Likewise, if your grandfather fought for the Wehrmacht or even if he was an SS camp commandant it has nothing to do with you. You have nothing to be ashamed of.
It seems odd to me that people think that modern Germans should feel uncomfortable when watching movies wher the nazis are the bad guys. When Americans watch movies set in the old west, no one is rooting for the US Army when they are trying to run the Indians off their land. We cheer Sitting Bull when he and his warriors destroy General Custer and his troops. But even still we don't exactly feel guilty that we may be watching the movie on the very land that the Indians were run off of. I don't expect that Germans would feel any different.
我认为关于战争，每个人都有很多错位的骄傲和负罪感。我祖父曾为美国在欧洲作战。他甚至被授予英勇勋章。我没有。他有属于值得自己骄傲的事，我没有，他的英勇与我无关。我觉得我没有任何权利为他的成就感到骄傲。从他告诉我的经历来看，我甚至不认为应该用骄傲这个词用来描述他的战斗经历。他觉得自己参与了一件可怕的事情，不幸的是，这件事必须要做。同样，如果你的祖父为德国国防军而战，或者即使他是党卫军的指挥官，那也与你无关。你没什么好羞耻的。
人们认为现代德国人在看抨击纳粹的电影时会感到不舒服，这对我来说似乎很奇怪。当美国人看以旧西部为背景的电影时，当美国军队试图把印第安人赶出他们的土地时，没有人会支持美国军队的做法。当印第安和他的战士摧毁卡斯特将军和他的军队时，我们为印第安人欢呼。即便我们可能是在印第安人失去的那片土地上观看这部电影，我们也并不真正感到内疚。我不认为德国人会有什么不同。
Fabsun
My great grandfather was in the US Army and was in charge of an anti tank unit and by the time they had made their way to Germany the majority of the soldiers they had to kill were women and children, he never forgave himself and when he came back he became an alcoholic and eventually had a stroke that he survived but left him unable to speak properly. He had a lot of mementos from France and Germany including a box that anti tank rounds would come in and money from both Germany and France. I watched him give up on life after my dad passed away, the last words he told me was that he had enough of life and that he was done, he starved himself to death.
我的曾祖父在二战时参加美国陆军，隶属一支反坦克部队，当他们前往德国时，他们杀死的大多数士兵都是临时武装起来的妇女和儿童，他从未原谅自己，当他回来时，他成了一个酒鬼，最终中风，他活了下来，但却无法正常说话。他有很多来自法国和德国的纪念品，包括一个装反坦克子弹的盒子，还有来自德国和法国的钱。在我父亲去世后，我的曾祖父放弃了生活的希望，他告诉我的最后一句话是，他已经受够了生活，他受够了，然后绝食而死。
My great grandfather was in the US Army and was in charge of an anti tank unit and by the time they had made their way to Germany the majority of the soldiers they had to kill were women and children, he never forgave himself and when he came back he became an alcoholic and eventually had a stroke that he survived but left him unable to speak properly. He had a lot of mementos from France and Germany including a box that anti tank rounds would come in and money from both Germany and France. I watched him give up on life after my dad passed away, the last words he told me was that he had enough of life and that he was done, he starved himself to death.
我的曾祖父在二战时参加美国陆军，隶属一支反坦克部队，当他们前往德国时，他们杀死的大多数士兵都是临时武装起来的妇女和儿童，他从未原谅自己，当他回来时，他成了一个酒鬼，最终中风，他活了下来，但却无法正常说话。他有很多来自法国和德国的纪念品，包括一个装反坦克子弹的盒子，还有来自德国和法国的钱。在我父亲去世后，我的曾祖父放弃了生活的希望，他告诉我的最后一句话是，他已经受够了生活，他受够了，然后绝食而死。
truthdemon
I'm English too. My great uncle was one of the most charismatic, funny, loyal and great characters I've ever met He always had a soft spot for me growing up as he never had kids of his own.
He bombed Dresden as a Lancaster pilot, blamed the excessive deaths entirely on the Germans and remained pretty racist until the end of his days. In his defence his house was bombed when he was 17 so he signed up to take revenge, and saw many of his friends get shot down and burned alive. He's one of the best examples I've personally known of how someone can be both good and bad at the same time. Hero on the one hand, killed thousands on the other
我是英国人。我的叔公是我见过的最有魅力、最风趣、最忠诚、最伟大的人之一。因为他没有自己的孩子，所以一直对我很好。
作为驾驶兰开斯特轰炸机的飞行员，他轰炸了德国的德累斯顿，并将平民的死亡完全归咎于德国人自作自受，直到他生命的尽头，他都一直保持着相当程度的种族主义。他的房子在他17岁时被德国轰炸机炸毁，他看到许多战友的飞机被击落并被活活烧死，所以他发誓要报仇。
他的例子足以说明，一个人是如何同时兼具好人和坏人两面性的。他一方面杀了数千人成为英雄，另一方面又杀了数千人成为恶魔。
I'm English too. My great uncle was one of the most charismatic, funny, loyal and great characters I've ever met He always had a soft spot for me growing up as he never had kids of his own.
He bombed Dresden as a Lancaster pilot, blamed the excessive deaths entirely on the Germans and remained pretty racist until the end of his days. In his defence his house was bombed when he was 17 so he signed up to take revenge, and saw many of his friends get shot down and burned alive. He's one of the best examples I've personally known of how someone can be both good and bad at the same time. Hero on the one hand, killed thousands on the other
我是英国人。我的叔公是我见过的最有魅力、最风趣、最忠诚、最伟大的人之一。因为他没有自己的孩子，所以一直对我很好。
作为驾驶兰开斯特轰炸机的飞行员，他轰炸了德国的德累斯顿，并将平民的死亡完全归咎于德国人自作自受，直到他生命的尽头，他都一直保持着相当程度的种族主义。他的房子在他17岁时被德国轰炸机炸毁，他看到许多战友的飞机被击落并被活活烧死，所以他发誓要报仇。
他的例子足以说明，一个人是如何同时兼具好人和坏人两面性的。他一方面杀了数千人成为英雄，另一方面又杀了数千人成为恶魔。
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