QA:为什么要花这么长时间才能把阻塞苏伊士运河的货船移走?
2021-03-29 阿煌看什么 17659
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Edward Mahoney Professional Geologist
There are lots of answers that contain some of the facts. It’s interesting to read them. A lot of what happened comes down to mis-management of the Suez Canal by Eqypt, which is getting close to $6B a year in revenues from it.
The Situation
* The ship is massive and it’s wedged in, having dug its bow deeply into the sand on one side, and its stern into the other.
* You can’t unweight it to make it float higher unless you bring in massive barges with cranes capable of handing shipping containers and lifting them from the top of the load. That would take months, just to bring those barge mounted container handling cranes from some place like Holland —even if they exist.
* Divers can’t do anything. NOTHING.

【回答】专业地质学家
有很多答案都包含了一些事实。读起来很有趣。发生的很多事情都可归结为埃及对苏伊士运河的管理不善,该运河每年的收入接近60亿美元。
情况:
* 这艘船体积巨大,它是楔入进去的,船头一侧深深陷入沙中,船尾一侧也深深陷入沙中。
* 你不能通过减轻重量使它浮得更高,除非你用巨型驳船装载起重机,来处理集装箱并将它们从上面吊起来。这需要几个月的时间,仅仅是从荷兰这样的地方引进那些装载在驳船上的集装箱起重机就需要几个月的时间——即使它们存在。
* 潜水员 什么 都做不了。

* There really isn’t likely to be a tug boat in the world powerful enough to pull the ship free; especially one you can get into the canal, and then you have the problem of what its prop wash would do to the rest of the canal as it pulled.
* Helicopters exist that can move a loaded container, but they would need to be mobilized from Europe. It would take a really long time for them to unload the ship, one container at a time.
What are real possibilities?
* Bringing in a barge mounted dredge, or a series of them —to attack the problem from four sides— is a possibility, but that would take quite a bit of time, and lots of time to dig. That might be what has to be done.
* Bring in really large land based earth moving equipment. I’m talking extremly large open pit mining equipment —the largest that exists in the world, such as bucket wheels and electric shovels. You don’t move them easily though.

* 世界上真的不太可能有一艘拖船强大到足以把船拉出来;特别是当拖船进入运河,然后你就会有一个问题:当它拉动时,螺旋桨涡流会对运河的其余部分产生什么影响。
* 直升机可以移动装载的集装箱,但它们需要从欧洲动员起来。他们一次只能卸一个集装箱,要花很长时间。
真正的可能性是什么?
* 引进一艘或多艘挖泥船,从四面解决问题,是有可能的,但这需要相当长的时间,也需要大量的挖掘时间。这可能是必须要做的。
* 引进大型陆基挖土设备。我说的是世界上最大的露天采矿设备,如斗轮和电铲。但是移动它们并不容易。

* Bring in large hydraulic pumps —hydraulic monitors. You could wash the sand away from under the bow and stern. They can be incredibly powerful tools for cutting and moving sand, especially when it can be liquidifed. This would also need to be combined with no. 1 (above) as you would need to deal with the spoils from the washing.
* They could build some huge anchor points on land, and attach some massive winches to them. You’d need to build at least 4 of them, two on each side, and they would need to have very deep foundations. Then the concern would about whether you would risk pulling this ship apart. On the scale of the size of the ship, the steel of the hull has about the same strength as the aluminum foil you wrap food in.

* 引进大型液压泵,液压监视器。你可以把船头和船尾下面的沙子冲走。它们是切割和移动沙子的难以置信的强大工具,尤其是当沙子被液化的时候。这也需要结合第一点(上面) ,因为你需要处理洗过的脏东西。
* 他们可以在陆地上建立一些巨大的支撑点,并在上面安装一些巨大的绞盘。你至少需要建造4台,每边两台,并且它们需要有非常深的地基。然后担心的是你是否会冒险把这艘船撕成碎片。从船体的尺寸来衡量,船体钢材的强度与包装食物的铝箔差不多。

John Jones BA Economics & Geography, University of South Africa (1988)
Very simply because it’s a gargantuan engineering problem.
No 1. There is no way that containers can be safely brought off the ship. These boats were designed to be loaded and unloaded in specially designed ports with specially designed super massive cranes. Always operating in groups of three. It has to be three. Take containers off one end and the boat tips down on the ‘heavy’ side. Take containers off the middle and the boat cracks in the middle because it’s spine is broken by the weight on both ends. It must be three cranes. These cranes would be needed to be brought by ship and the canal is ummm……..blocked. Otherwise wide tarred roads would have to be built on either side because as yet roads wide and strong enough to bring them in do not exist yet. If that ship’s hull breaks then the canal may be closed for years while the structure is dismantled. This ship can ( and looks to indeed be carrying ) 20 000 containers.

【回答】南非大学经济与地理学士(1988年)
非常简单,因为这是一个巨大的工程问题。
第一、集装箱不可能安全地运出船外。这些船被设计成在专门设计的港口用专门设计的超大型起重机装卸。总是三个一组进行操作。必须是三个一组。把集装箱从一端卸下来,船就会倾向沉重的一边。把集装箱从船的中部卸下来,船的中部就会裂开,因为船的龙骨会被两端的重量压断。必须要三台起重机。这些起重机需要用船运来,而这条运河...嗯...已经被堵住了。不然,两边都必须修建宽阔的柏油路,因为现在还没有宽而坚固的路可以让他们通过。如果船体破裂,那么运河可能会关闭数年来拆除结构。这艘船可以装载(而且看起来确实装载了)2万个集装箱。

No 2. You have all seen pictures of that ‘digger’ in front of the ship. They really might as well have given the crew of that digger a child’s bucket and spade. They would need to remove 100 m x 20 m x 40 m = 80 000 cubic metres of sand to remove enough sand and sludge to move the ship.
No 3. It’s going to take a week or two or three simply to model the flow of water and sand around the hull. The first step is to arrive at an intention. Then build a model of that intention and the dynamics of how it would work and the problems which they would need to anticipate. Oh and then build a project team to carry it out. We are talking weeks here.
No easy solutions here. I don’t have one. Nobody does. Yet.

第二、你们都看过船前面那台“挖掘机”的照片。他们真的还不如给挖掘机的工作人员一个小孩子的水桶和铲子。他们需要清除100米x20米x40米=8万立方米的沙子,才能移动这艘船。
第三、这将需要一个、两个或三个星期来模拟船体周围的水流和沙子。第一步是达成一个意向。然后建立一个这种意向的模型,以及它将如何工作的动态,和他们需要预见的问题。哦,然后建立一个项目团队来执行它。我们需要讨论几个星期。
这里没有简单的解决办法,我没有,目前还没有人有解决办法。

Robert Matthews Former bio major, deeply interested in health;
Deliberate sabotage?
The grounding seems extremely suspicious:
(1) The captain is a highly paid professional, not a teenager fond of stupid pranks. How is it then that the ship followed such a weird path before entering the Suez: a crude drawing of a penis?
(2) Navigation along the canal is done by dedicated professionals who do the same job day in and day out for years on end. They are intimately familiar with every single detail of the canal’s topography. How did they manage to run the ship aground?
(3) For most of its path, the canal has channels for ships entering from the Red Sea or the Mediterranean. A powerful sandstorm supposedly blew this enormous ship off course in an unusual spot: where the canal narrows to a single channel that can block traffic in both directions. How convenient! Has similar massive storm damage to ships or infrastructure been reported anywhere else along the canal?

【回答】曾就读生物专业,对健康深感兴趣;
故意破坏?
这搁浅似乎非常可疑:
(1)船长是一个高薪的专业人士,而不是喜欢愚蠢恶作剧的青少年。那么,为什么这艘船在进入苏伊士运河之前沿着这样一条奇怪的路线: 粗糙的生殖器图?



(2)运河航行由专业人员负责,他们日复一日地从事同样的工作,年复一年。他们对运河地形的每一个细节都非常熟悉。他们是怎样让船搁浅的?
(3)在这条运河的大部分航道上,都有来自红海或地中海的船只进入的航道。据说,一场强大的沙尘暴将这艘巨大的船吹离了航线,吹到了一个不同寻常的地方:在那里,运河只有一条通道,可以阻断两个方向的交通。多方便啊!在这条运河的沿岸其他地方,是否有类似的大规模风暴对船或基础设施造成破坏的报道?

Taken together, 1~3 seem like deliberate sabotage, not acts of God (I believe force majeure is the term used in the insurance industry).
Why is it taking so long? Perhaps somebody wants it to take a long time.
Connect the dots: over the past year some hidden group has the ability to provoke “accidental” explosions, fires and other “Acts of God” that are shutting down the world economy in preparation for …?
(A) Large meat packing plants mostly staffed by strong young immigrant workers have beeo shut down over fears of a flu that mostly kills people with weak immune systems (happens every year)
(B) Hydroxychloroquine, a cheap medicine that has been used all over the world for decades (patent expired, so profit motive not present) is in short supply thanks to a massive explosion that destroyed a pharmaceutical factory in Taiwan

综合1-3点来看,似乎是故意破坏,而不是天灾(我相信保险行业使用的术语是不可抗力)。
为什么要花这么长时间?也许有人想花很长时间。
连接所有的点:在过去的一年里,一些隐藏的组织有能力引发“意外的”爆炸,火灾和其他“天灾”,它们正在关闭世界经济,为了什么做准备?
A、由于担心流感(每年都会发生)导致免疫系统弱的人死亡,许多大型肉类加工厂都关闭了,而这些工厂的员工大多是强壮的年轻移民工人。
B、羟氯喹是一种在世界各地使用了几十年的廉价药品(专利过期,所以没有利润动机) ,由于台湾一家制药厂发生大规模爆炸而供应不足。

(C) Texas, the only US state with its own electrical grid, suffered a critical breakdown: petroleum and plastics from major domestic providers are now in short supply.
(D) China was hit by severe flooding for weeks. Vast tracts of farmland that produce China’s food have been rendered unusable. China will not allow its peoule to starve.
(E) Food shipments to many countries have been reduced (containers are in short supply) because China is paying top dollar to feed its own people.
(F) The soybean supply that directly or indirectly feeds so much of the world’s population is in trouble

C、德克萨斯州是美国唯一一个拥有自己的电网的州,遭遇了严重的故障:国内主要供应商提供的石油和塑料现在供应短缺。
D、中国连续数周遭受严重的洪灾。生产中国粮食的大片农田已经变得无法使用。中国不会让它的人民挨饿的。
E、由于中国为了养活自己的人民而支付最多的美元,运往许多国家的食品运输量减少了(集装箱供不应求)。
F、直接或间接养活世界如此多人口的大豆供应陷入困境。

Geoffrey Widdison Chemical Engineer (2006-present)
Because the thing is big.
No, I mean, it’s really, really big.
If a rowboat runs around, you can basically push it free by hand. If a fishing boat runs aground, you might need a more powerful vessel to get it loose, but modern containerships...
You see that, right? That’s a bulldozer, looking very much like a toy, next to a small section of the ship.
This is a ship the size of the Empire State Building. And it’s weight, when fully loaded is pretty similar to a skyscraper as well. Imagine a massive building lying on it’s side, and you’re given the task of moving it. What are you going to do?
There are things they can do, but those look to require some major equipment, which needs to be brought into place, sited, set up, and a plan needs to be developed and executed, and if it doesn’t work, then they need to try something else, which might be even more complicated.
Moving something of that enormous size is wildly difficult. If you got lucky, tugboats and the ship’s own engines might be able to do it. But if you’re not lucky (and it looks like they’re not), then you have to build a plan to do something from the ground up. Frankly, a week is pretty optimistic under those circumstances.

【回答】化学工程师(2006年-至今)
因为这东西很大。
不,我是说,它真的,真的很大。
如果一只小船到处跑,你基本上可以用手把它推开。如果一艘渔船搁浅了,你可能需要一艘更有力气的船才能把它弄出来,但是现代集装箱船...
你看到了,对吧?那是一台推土机,看起来非常像一个玩具,紧挨着船的一小部分。
这是一艘有帝国大厦那么大的船。当它满载时,它的重量和摩天大楼非常相似。想象一座巨大的建筑躺在一边,你被赋予了移动它的任务。你打算怎么办?
他们可以做一些事情,但这些事情看起来需要一些主要设备,这些设备需要到位,选址,安装,并且需要制定和执行一个计划,如果这计划不起作用,那么他们需要尝试一些其他的办法,这可能更加复杂。
移动这么大的东西是非常困难的。如果你运气好的话,拖船和货船自己的引擎也许可以做到。但是,如果你不够幸运(看起来他们并不幸运),那么你必须制定一个计划,从头开始做一些事情。坦率地说,在这种情况下,花一周的时间已经是相当乐观的。

Jon Mixon
Let's see:
1. The ship ran aground in a relatively remote area - All of the equipment necessary to remove it (cranes, dredgers, earthmoving vehicles,etc.) needs to be brought in and that takes time.
2. The Egyptian government doesn't seem to have had any serious contingencies in place to deal with an event of this nature - The media reports from the country indicate that there's a great deal of confusion going on and that rarely leads to quick solutions.
3. The captain of the vessel doesn't seem to have been too competent - Instead of slowing his passage through the canal due to high winds and poor visibility, he seems to have believed that he could travel through at normal speeds and that seems to have been a factor in the grounding. Time is being lost due to the captain's poor judgment and multiple errors

【回答】
让我们看看:
1、这艘船搁浅在一个相对偏远的地区,所有必要的设备(起重机、挖泥船、土方车等)都需要运进来,这需要时间。
2、埃及政府似乎没有任何应对这种性质事件的应急措施,来自该国的媒体报道表明,目前很混乱,这很难迅速解决问题。
3、这艘船的船长似乎不太称职,他没有因为大风和能见度低而减慢通过运河的速度,而是似乎相信自己可以以正常速度通过运河,这似乎是搁浅的一个原因。由于船长判断失误和多次失误,时间被浪费了。

4. The canal’s dimensions versus the size of the vessel - The ship in question was near the limits of what vessels can safely transit the canal. There was little room for error (literally and figuratively) yet that's exactly what happened. If the vessel was smaller, then refloating it or moving it would be easier than it's going to be.
5. The relative competence of the Egyptian government - Corruption and mismanagement are not unknown quantities in the Egyptian government. If the government was stable and relatively free of corruption then while the matter would still be serious, it would also be manageable. However the solutions and resolutions in this matter are going to take longer as Egypt has an incompetent and corrupt government handling it.

4、运河的宽度和船的大小,问题中的货船接近船能安全通过运河的极限。几乎不能有犯错的余地(字面上和比喻上都是如此),然而事实就是如此。如果船比较小,那么重新使其浮起或移动就容易得多。
5、埃及政府的相对能力,腐败和管理不善在埃及政府中并不是未知数。如果政府稳定,相对没有腐败,那么尽管问题仍然严重,但也是可控的。然而,在这个问题上的解决方案和决议将需要更长的时间,因为埃及有一个无能和腐败的政府在处理这个问题。

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Robin Daverman world traveler
Why is it taking so long to dislodge the containership blocking the Suez Canal?
Accidents happen, but how one deals with the accident is not “an act of God” but entirely of one’s own doing. The appalling lack of efficiency in salvage is on full display here.
This is not how it’s done. This is betting all on hope alone. This kind of ships have 80 feet under the water. Digging 2 feet at the water line does nothing.
Egypt loses $15 million a day when the Canal is blocked. With that kind of money, can they at least send a couple of divers to go down and take some pictures? Can they at least figure out just how stuck is the ship? Can they find a way to unload some cargos and let buoyancy do some work? Can they recruit someone who actually knows math and physics? Basically, start working on a fail-proof plan, instead of betting it all on wishful thinking?
Good grief!

【回答】世界旅行者
为什么要用这么长的时间才能移走阻塞苏伊士运河的集装箱货船?
事故时有发生,但是如何处理事故并不是“不可抗力”,而完全是自己的行为。这完全缺乏效率的救援在这里得到了充分的体现。
事情不是这样做的。这完全是把赌注压在希望上。这种船在水下有80英尺深。在水线处挖2英尺没什么用。
运河被堵塞后,埃及每天损失1500万美元。这么多的钱,他们能不能至少派几个潜水员下去拍些照片吧?他们能不能至少弄清楚这艘船到底被卡住到什么程度?他们能不能想一些卸货的办法,让浮力发挥作用?他们能不能招募个真正懂数学和物理的人?基本上,开始着手制定一个防止失败的计划,而不是把所有的赌注都押在一厢情愿的想法上?
我的天!

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Mohamed Emara lives in Alexandria, Egypt
It's easier said than done.
Ever Given is a gigantic container ship, actually it's one of the largest in the world. The incident is still being investigated, but it's said that the ship ran aground after getting caught in strong winds and a large sandstorm that caused low visibility and poor navigation.
A statement issued by the Egyptian cabinet said that 9 tug boats, 2 dredgers and 4 diggers are currently trying to free the stranded ship.
The US offered to help and a Dutch firm called Smit Salvage is cooperating with the Suez Canal Authority to dislodge the ship.
The SCA said that it is necessary to remove up to 20,000 cubic metres of sand around the ship to dislodge it. Obviously it's not an easy task and might take weeks in order to get the job done.

【回答】住在埃及的亚历山大
说起来容易,做起来难。
长赐号是一艘巨大的集装箱船,实际上它是世界上最大的集装箱货船之一。事故仍在调查中,但是据说这艘船在遇到强风和大沙尘暴之后导致能见度低和航行不良,搁浅了。
埃及内阁发表的一份声明说,9艘拖船、2艘挖泥船和4艘挖掘机目前正努力抢救搁浅的货船。
美国表示愿意提供帮助,一家名为Smit Salvage的荷兰公司正在与苏伊士运河管理局合作将这艘船移走。
SCA表示,需要移走船周围多达2万立方米的沙土才可将其移走。显然,这不是一项简单的任务,可能需要几周的时间才能完成。

Ernie Wisner
because the folks clearing it right now are idiots. the ditch has a current the longer that boat stays in the current the tighter it will wedge. the more they try and dig with that little shovel the tighter it gets. if they had gotten a couple freighters with lines on it bow and stern they could have eased her back into the channel and had not problems but instead they wasted as much time as possible with inexperienced crews and now have to wait for the “professional’s” to come in and make more of a mess out of it to the tune of several hundred thousand an hour. that is a three ring circus without tents playing out right there.

【回答】
因为现在清理的人都是白痴。沟里有水流,船在水流中停留的时间越长,就会契得越紧。他们用小铲子挖得越多,就越紧。如果他们有两艘船,船头和船尾都有绳子,他们就可以把船放回航道,没有任何问题,但是他们却在没有经验的工作人员身上浪费了最多的时间,现在他们不得不等待“专业人士”过来,以每小时几十万美元的速度把问题弄得更糟。那就是个没有帐篷的马戏团在表演。

Muhammed Borhanuddin Lived in SEA more than 20 years
The massive 220,000-ton, 400m-long ship is stuck diagonally on the canal surface which is only around 200m wide.
But the real problem lies somewhere else. That’s carelessness of the owners of such oversize ships and of the traders involved.
The Suez Canal is not capable of handling such oversize ships and, as far as we know, concerns have been raised long back about such a potential casualty. But no one ever invested a serious thought over it until the current accident happened.

【回答】在东南亚居住超过20年
这艘重达22万吨、长达400米的巨轮斜插在只有200米宽的运河水面上。
但是真正的问题在其他地方。这是超大型货船的船东和参与交易的商人的粗心大意。
苏伊士运河没有能力处理如此巨大的货船,而且据我们所知,这种潜在的事故早就引起了人们的关注。但是,直到目前的事故发生之前,没有人对此进行过认真的考虑。

Jesse Melton
A very unfortunate collection of significant engineering challenges.
Its bulbous bow is deeply embedded in the ground.
Its stern is wedged into the opposite bank.
It’s extremely big.
It’s fully loaded with 20,000 full cargo containers making it one of the heaviest moving obxts on Earth.
In a modern, fully equipped port the ship takes about seven days to unload. There are no port facilities in the middle of the desert where the ship is stuck.
Big things cause big problems when something goes wrong.

【回答】
这是一个非常不幸的重大工程挑战的集合。
它的球状船首深深地嵌在地面上。
船尾楔入对岸。
它非常大。
它满载着2万个货物集装箱,是地球上最重的移动物体之一。
在一个现代化的、设备齐全的港口,这艘船大约需要七天时间来卸货。在船被困的沙漠中央没有港口设施。
当出现问题的时候,大物就会引起大问题。

Mostafa Zaghloul studied Electrical Engineering at RWTH Aachen University
Egypt's response has been pretty relatively good sofar with a lot of equipment and international companies arriving relatively quickly on the scene considering the circumstances.
Egypt has the some of the biggest dredgers in the world but using them in such a remote and narrow strait can be really challenging. They already tried to tow it but they couldn't dislodge the bulboud bow which is solidly dug in.
This is a huge and heavy ship (247000 tons) and offloading it will take weeks so the most effective solution would be to dig around the stuck bulbous bow of the ship and then pull it out with the already available tow boats (as per SMIT which is spearheading the rescue).

【回答】在亚琛工业大学学习电气工程
到目前为止,埃及的反应相对良好,考虑到当时的情况,许多设备和国际公司相对较快地到达现场。
埃及拥有一些世界上最大的挖泥船,但是在这样一个偏远狭窄的海峡使用它们确实很有挑战性。他们已经努力要拖走它,但是他们无法拖动那个扎得很结实的鼻形船头。
这是一艘巨大而沉重的船(24.7万吨),卸货将花费数周时间,因此最有效的解决办法是在船头被卡住的鼻形船头周围挖掘,然后用现有的拖船把它拖出来(根据负责救援的SMIT的说法)。

Peter Walker Mechanical Fitter at Uranium Mine
Looking pic on the news it pretty obvious that containers need to be moved. Someone suggested barge mounted cranes. It's not going to happen. They are slow lifters as they need to move ballast to balance the load.
My suggestion is build a pad and bring in a big crawler crane.

【回答】铀矿机械装配工
看看新闻上的图片,很明显,集装箱需要搬走。有人建议用驳船吊车。这是不可能的。他们是缓慢的起重机,因为他们需要移动镇重物来平衡负载。
我的建议是建一个平台,并引进一台大型履带起重机。

Dominic Tramonte
Have you taken a look at the photos?
She appears to have buried the entire bulb bow in the bank. They'll probably have to bring up a dredge and get her floating again; I don’t think they can assemble enough tugs to pull her off. One thing the photos don’t show is current environmental conditions, but the same sand storm that (may have) caused the accident will play hell with the recovery operations. You don’t move 200,000 tons of shipping safely and quickly, not even in open waters.

【回答】
你看过这些照片了吗?
她似乎整个鼻形船头都埋在了河岸里。他们可能得用挖泥机让它重新浮起来;我认为他们不能组装足够的拖船把船拖出来。照片没有显示的一件事是当前的环境状况,但是造成事故的沙尘暴将对恢复工作会产生严重影响。你无法安全快速地运输20万吨的货物,即使是在开阔的水域上也行不通。

Melaku Teguegne
“Why is it taking so long to dislodge the containership blocking the Suez Canal?”
Someone forgot to call The Libertarian Party. If Libertarians were in control of the Suez Canal, the containership would have been dislodged by now.

【回答】非洲人非洲人和非洲人的直系后裔
“为什么要用这么长时间才能拖走阻塞苏伊士运河的集装箱货船?”
有人忘了给自由党打电话。如果自由主义者控制了苏伊士运河,那么集装箱货船早就被拖走了。

Gene Harvey
WELLLL, Since everybody is putting their two cents in, here’s mine:The satellite photos show many other vessels of similar size and tonnage on both sides of the grounded tanker.
So why don’t they hook the anchors together, fore and aft, to ships on opposite sides, and use the other ships to pull in opposing directions. Surely the other tankers have sufficient motive power to accomplish the task.
Might not work, but that’s my 2 cents.

【回答】
好吧,既然每个人都有自己的看法,这是我的看法:卫星照片显示,在这艘搁浅的货船两侧还有许多同样大小和吨位的其他船只。
那么,为什么他们不把船锚钩在一起,船头和船尾,连接到两边的船上,然后朝相反的方向拉呢。当然其他船要有足够的动力来完成这项任务。
也许不行,但这是我的看法。

Amay Rai Data Analyst
A large cargo ship is stuck in the Suez Canal in Egypt and tractors and diggers make the best attempts to displace this large container ship. Since March 23, and over 48 hours later, the marine world is still struggling to get it floating.

【回答】数据分析师
一艘大型货船搁浅在埃及的苏伊士运河中,牵引机和挖掘机竭尽全力拖动这艘大型集装箱货船。自3月23日以来,超过48小时过去了,海洋界仍在努力让它浮起来。

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