什么历史“事实”经常被人提起但根本不是真的？
正文翻译
What historical 'fact' is often repeated but simply not true?
什么历史“事实”经常被人提起但根本不是真的？
What historical 'fact' is often repeated but simply not true?
什么历史“事实”经常被人提起但根本不是真的？
评论翻译
Jean-Marie Valheur
, political aficionado & former journalist
There is a belief held by many people that people in the Middle Ages died at extremely young ages, that they almost never made it to what we would now describe as old age. This is not true, at all. Infant mortality was high, yes. You had a good chance of dying early. But if you made it past a certain age, and you were wealthy? You could make it to your seventies, even your eighties.
A nice example of this would be Eleanor of Aquitaine, the mother of the English Kings John and Richard the Lionheart. Eleanor married twice and survived childbirth a staggering ten times(!) in an era where giving birth was often among the main causes of death for young women. She lived to see two of her sons become Kings. And died in 1204 at the age of 82, a great-great-grandmother several times over.
The great knight William Marshall made it to either 72 or 73, depending on his birth year. This in spite of numerous battle wounds and injuries in the field, and a very high-stress life, much of it spent on horseback charging enemy armies — even as a child he was a hostage, threatened by a rival lord to be shot out in a trebuchet at his father laying siege to the castle… not an easy life, and still made it to his seventies!
There are actually quite a few examples of historical figures who lived… quite long lives. I would argue that a nobleman in the Middle Ages often lived just as long as a nobleman in 19th century Victorian England. And even a farmer, if luck was on his side and famines and plagues stayed clear of him, could easily make it into his seventies even a thousands years ago.
很多人都认为中世纪的人死得非常早，他们几乎没有活到我们现在所说的“老年”。这完全不是事实。婴儿死亡率很高，确实。你有很大的机会会早夭。但是如果你过了一定的年龄，而且你很富有？你可以活到七十岁，甚至八十岁。
这方面的一个很好的例子是阿基坦的埃莉诺，她是英国国王约翰和狮心王理查德的母亲。埃莉诺结过两次婚，在那个生育往往是年轻妇女死亡的主要原因之一的时代，她在分娩中幸存了10次（！），令人吃惊。她活着看到她的两个儿子成为国王。她于1204年去世，享年82岁，数次成为曾曾祖母。
伟大的骑士威廉-马歇尔活到了72岁或73岁，这取决于他的出生年份。这是在战场上受了无数次战伤，生活压力很大，大部分时间都在马背上向敌军冲锋陷阵的人--甚至在他还是个孩子的时候，他就成了人质，被对手的领主威胁要在他父亲围攻城堡的时候用投石机射出去......生活并不轻松，仍然活到了七十岁!
实际上，有不少历史人物活得......相当长的例子。我认为，中世纪的贵族往往和19世纪维多利亚时代英国的贵族一样长寿。甚至一个农民，如果运气好，只要饥荒和瘟疫不找上门来，甚至在几千年前也能轻易活到七十岁。
, political aficionado & former journalist
There is a belief held by many people that people in the Middle Ages died at extremely young ages, that they almost never made it to what we would now describe as old age. This is not true, at all. Infant mortality was high, yes. You had a good chance of dying early. But if you made it past a certain age, and you were wealthy? You could make it to your seventies, even your eighties.
A nice example of this would be Eleanor of Aquitaine, the mother of the English Kings John and Richard the Lionheart. Eleanor married twice and survived childbirth a staggering ten times(!) in an era where giving birth was often among the main causes of death for young women. She lived to see two of her sons become Kings. And died in 1204 at the age of 82, a great-great-grandmother several times over.
The great knight William Marshall made it to either 72 or 73, depending on his birth year. This in spite of numerous battle wounds and injuries in the field, and a very high-stress life, much of it spent on horseback charging enemy armies — even as a child he was a hostage, threatened by a rival lord to be shot out in a trebuchet at his father laying siege to the castle… not an easy life, and still made it to his seventies!
There are actually quite a few examples of historical figures who lived… quite long lives. I would argue that a nobleman in the Middle Ages often lived just as long as a nobleman in 19th century Victorian England. And even a farmer, if luck was on his side and famines and plagues stayed clear of him, could easily make it into his seventies even a thousands years ago.
很多人都认为中世纪的人死得非常早，他们几乎没有活到我们现在所说的“老年”。这完全不是事实。婴儿死亡率很高，确实。你有很大的机会会早夭。但是如果你过了一定的年龄，而且你很富有？你可以活到七十岁，甚至八十岁。
这方面的一个很好的例子是阿基坦的埃莉诺，她是英国国王约翰和狮心王理查德的母亲。埃莉诺结过两次婚，在那个生育往往是年轻妇女死亡的主要原因之一的时代，她在分娩中幸存了10次（！），令人吃惊。她活着看到她的两个儿子成为国王。她于1204年去世，享年82岁，数次成为曾曾祖母。
伟大的骑士威廉-马歇尔活到了72岁或73岁，这取决于他的出生年份。这是在战场上受了无数次战伤，生活压力很大，大部分时间都在马背上向敌军冲锋陷阵的人--甚至在他还是个孩子的时候，他就成了人质，被对手的领主威胁要在他父亲围攻城堡的时候用投石机射出去......生活并不轻松，仍然活到了七十岁!
实际上，有不少历史人物活得......相当长的例子。我认为，中世纪的贵族往往和19世纪维多利亚时代英国的贵族一样长寿。甚至一个农民，如果运气好，只要饥荒和瘟疫不找上门来，甚至在几千年前也能轻易活到七十岁。
Gábor Kiss
It is very interesting. Does this mean that, disregarding child mortality, famine and death in battle, the life expectancy did not increase that much? (Implying that modern diet and lifestyle are not healthier than older ones?) Or is it only to demonstrate that long life was achiveable in the middle ages as well?
This topic piqued my interest. Could you recommend reading material?
这非常有趣。这是否意味着，如果不考虑儿童死亡率、饥荒和战死，预期寿命其实并没有增加那么多？(暗示现代的饮食和生活方式不比以前的更健康？)还是说这只是为了证明长寿在中世纪也是可以实现的？
这个话题引起了我的兴趣。你能推荐一下阅读材料吗？
It is very interesting. Does this mean that, disregarding child mortality, famine and death in battle, the life expectancy did not increase that much? (Implying that modern diet and lifestyle are not healthier than older ones?) Or is it only to demonstrate that long life was achiveable in the middle ages as well?
This topic piqued my interest. Could you recommend reading material?
这非常有趣。这是否意味着，如果不考虑儿童死亡率、饥荒和战死，预期寿命其实并没有增加那么多？(暗示现代的饮食和生活方式不比以前的更健康？)还是说这只是为了证明长寿在中世纪也是可以实现的？
这个话题引起了我的兴趣。你能推荐一下阅读材料吗？
Jean-Marie Valheur
I suppose that’s how you could say it, yes — disregarding child mortality, famine and death in battle, the life expectancy did not increase that much since then. No one calls the newspaper when someone turns eighty these days, and in the Middle Ages someone turning eighty, likewise, would not have been the biggest deal. It would be unusual-ish, but not out of the norm.
The fact that Ramesses II, pharaoh of Egypt, made it well into his nineties thousands of years prior, after surviving many wars and ruling for six decades, is telling in this regard. There are records of ancient Romans reaching the age of 100 and up. Terentia, the wife of Cicero, made it to 103.
We are nowhere near as healthy and unique as we think we are.
我想你可以这样说，是的--不考虑儿童死亡率、饥荒和战死，从那时起到现在，预期寿命并没有增加那么多。现在没有人在某人年满八十岁时当作一件大事给报纸打电话，而在中世纪，某人年满八十岁，同样也不会是什么大事。这挺不寻常的，但并不超出认知的常规。
埃及法老拉美西斯二世在经历了许多战争和六十年的统治后，在几千年前就活到了九十岁，这一事实说明了这一点。有记录显示，古罗马人的年龄达到了100岁以上。西塞罗的妻子特伦提亚活到了103岁。
我们现代人远没有我们所认为的那么健康和独特。
I suppose that’s how you could say it, yes — disregarding child mortality, famine and death in battle, the life expectancy did not increase that much since then. No one calls the newspaper when someone turns eighty these days, and in the Middle Ages someone turning eighty, likewise, would not have been the biggest deal. It would be unusual-ish, but not out of the norm.
The fact that Ramesses II, pharaoh of Egypt, made it well into his nineties thousands of years prior, after surviving many wars and ruling for six decades, is telling in this regard. There are records of ancient Romans reaching the age of 100 and up. Terentia, the wife of Cicero, made it to 103.
We are nowhere near as healthy and unique as we think we are.
我想你可以这样说，是的--不考虑儿童死亡率、饥荒和战死，从那时起到现在，预期寿命并没有增加那么多。现在没有人在某人年满八十岁时当作一件大事给报纸打电话，而在中世纪，某人年满八十岁，同样也不会是什么大事。这挺不寻常的，但并不超出认知的常规。
埃及法老拉美西斯二世在经历了许多战争和六十年的统治后，在几千年前就活到了九十岁，这一事实说明了这一点。有记录显示，古罗马人的年龄达到了100岁以上。西塞罗的妻子特伦提亚活到了103岁。
我们现代人远没有我们所认为的那么健康和独特。
Luke Hatherton
We are unique. People from the Middle Ages or earlier would be staggered by the sheer number of healthy 90-year-olds out there. It’s far beyond anything anyone saw back then. Centenarians were legendary.
More importantly, the list of chronic illnesses people suffered from was appalling. They usually didn’t make it to 80 like we think of it today. A lot of them dragged themselves into old age. Indeed, the very concept of ‘middle age’ didn’t really exist. You wore out so fast and were burdened with ill health for so long that you didn’t have a prolonged period of vigorous health between being young and being old such as we have today. People’s cause of death was often labelled as ‘exhaustion’. Ancient skeletons show a grotesque array of diseases, often brought on by lack of vaccination, antibiotics, overwork and maluntrition. In Shakespeare’s time, from various written sources, it has been estimated that ‘old age’ began at 55. Even in the early 19th Century, Thomas Paine’s death at 72 was notable enough that he was said to have “passed the legendary limit of life”, as in, the Biblical threescore and ten years. (“and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years…”)
In the book ‘The Longevity Dividend’ (2006), the writers, including biogerontologist S. Jay Olshansky, estimate that the decades of greatly increased well-being for so many people in middle age in the 20th Century have added up to perhaps 1/3 of all economic growth the world has experienced since 1900.
我们确实很独特。来自中世纪或更早的人们会对外面健康的90岁老人的数量感到震惊。这远远超出了当时人们所看到的一切。百岁老人是个传奇。
更重要的是，人们所患的慢性病清单是令人震惊的。他们通常不能像我们今天认为的那样活到80岁。他们中的很多人只是拖着病躯进入老年。事实上，"中年"的概念并不存在。你损耗得如此之快，并长期被健康状况不佳所困扰，以至于你在年轻和年老之间没有一个像我们今天这样的长时间的健康状态。人们的死因往往被称为"疲惫"。古代的骨架显示了一系列怪异的疾病，通常是由于缺乏疫苗、抗生素、过度劳累和损耗而导致的。在莎士比亚的时代，根据各种书面资料，人们估计"老年"是从55岁开始的。即使在19世纪初，托马斯-潘恩72岁时才死亡也足够引人注目，以至于他被说成是"超过了传说中的生命极限"，就像《圣经》中的六十又十岁。("如果由于力量的原因，他们能达到八十岁...")
在《长寿红利》（2006年）一书中，包括生物老年学家杰伊·奥尔尚斯基在内的作者们估计，20世纪许多中年人的福利大大增加的几十年，加起来可能占1900年以来世界所有经济增长的1/3。
We are unique. People from the Middle Ages or earlier would be staggered by the sheer number of healthy 90-year-olds out there. It’s far beyond anything anyone saw back then. Centenarians were legendary.
More importantly, the list of chronic illnesses people suffered from was appalling. They usually didn’t make it to 80 like we think of it today. A lot of them dragged themselves into old age. Indeed, the very concept of ‘middle age’ didn’t really exist. You wore out so fast and were burdened with ill health for so long that you didn’t have a prolonged period of vigorous health between being young and being old such as we have today. People’s cause of death was often labelled as ‘exhaustion’. Ancient skeletons show a grotesque array of diseases, often brought on by lack of vaccination, antibiotics, overwork and maluntrition. In Shakespeare’s time, from various written sources, it has been estimated that ‘old age’ began at 55. Even in the early 19th Century, Thomas Paine’s death at 72 was notable enough that he was said to have “passed the legendary limit of life”, as in, the Biblical threescore and ten years. (“and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years…”)
In the book ‘The Longevity Dividend’ (2006), the writers, including biogerontologist S. Jay Olshansky, estimate that the decades of greatly increased well-being for so many people in middle age in the 20th Century have added up to perhaps 1/3 of all economic growth the world has experienced since 1900.
我们确实很独特。来自中世纪或更早的人们会对外面健康的90岁老人的数量感到震惊。这远远超出了当时人们所看到的一切。百岁老人是个传奇。
更重要的是，人们所患的慢性病清单是令人震惊的。他们通常不能像我们今天认为的那样活到80岁。他们中的很多人只是拖着病躯进入老年。事实上，"中年"的概念并不存在。你损耗得如此之快，并长期被健康状况不佳所困扰，以至于你在年轻和年老之间没有一个像我们今天这样的长时间的健康状态。人们的死因往往被称为"疲惫"。古代的骨架显示了一系列怪异的疾病，通常是由于缺乏疫苗、抗生素、过度劳累和损耗而导致的。在莎士比亚的时代，根据各种书面资料，人们估计"老年"是从55岁开始的。即使在19世纪初，托马斯-潘恩72岁时才死亡也足够引人注目，以至于他被说成是"超过了传说中的生命极限"，就像《圣经》中的六十又十岁。("如果由于力量的原因，他们能达到八十岁...")
在《长寿红利》（2006年）一书中，包括生物老年学家杰伊·奥尔尚斯基在内的作者们估计，20世纪许多中年人的福利大大增加的几十年，加起来可能占1900年以来世界所有经济增长的1/3。
Angela Birch
The fact that a few very rare people made it to old age doesn’t mean that the overall life expectancy was anywhere near as long as it is today. We are not unique but we on average sure live longer.
Ramesses II? Trust me he lived a much better life that did anyone else at the time and the average Egyptian didn’t live to be 90 or anything close.
In the middle ages it was rare for a person to live to be 80 even if one was wealthy and had for the time the best medical care and was male. In about 1200 if one made it to 25 ( thus excluding infants and childhood mortality) one could expect to live to 48. Yes a few people were lucky enough to live longer but when checking actual records Romans and Egyptians actually had a slight;y longer life expectancy, probably because of better Sanitation and overall a better diet than did your average human in the middle ages The average age for Egyptians who made it to adulthood was 53 and for Romans it was about 57. In 1850 in the UK, a quite advanced country at the time, less than half of those born in 1850 made it to their 50th birthday. Today 97% of those born can expect to make it to their 50th birthday and 80% can expect to make it to their 60th birthday
Yes overall our diets are better, and we have better sanitation and better and more effective health care. In countries today with good medical care the average life expectancy is over 80. not just the rare lucky person but Average.
It is less in the US but then our medical care isn’t that good.
古代少数非常罕见的人活到了老年，并不意味着整体预期寿命接近今天的长度。我们不是独一无二的，但我们平均来说肯定活得更长。
拉美西斯二世？相信我，他的生活比当时的其他人都要好得多，而埃及人的平均寿命并没有达到90岁或接近90岁。
在中世纪，一个人活到80岁是很罕见的，即使他很富有，在当时有最好的医疗服务，而且是男性。在1200年左右，如果一个人能够活到25岁（因此不包括婴儿和儿童的死亡率），他可以预期活到48岁。是的，少数人幸运地活得更长，但当检查实际记录时，罗马人和埃及人的预期寿命实际上略长，可能是因为更好的卫生设施和总体上比中世纪的普通人有更好的饮食。1850年，在英国这个当时相当先进的国家，1850年出生的人中只有不到一半能活到50岁生日。今天，97%的人可以活到50岁生日，80%的人可以活到60岁生日。
是的，总的来说，我们的饮食更好，我们有更好的卫生设施和更好、更有效的医疗保健。在今天拥有良好医疗服务的国家，平均预期寿命超过80岁，不仅仅是少数幸运的人，而是平均。
在美国则较少，我们的医疗服务并不那么好。
The fact that a few very rare people made it to old age doesn’t mean that the overall life expectancy was anywhere near as long as it is today. We are not unique but we on average sure live longer.
Ramesses II? Trust me he lived a much better life that did anyone else at the time and the average Egyptian didn’t live to be 90 or anything close.
In the middle ages it was rare for a person to live to be 80 even if one was wealthy and had for the time the best medical care and was male. In about 1200 if one made it to 25 ( thus excluding infants and childhood mortality) one could expect to live to 48. Yes a few people were lucky enough to live longer but when checking actual records Romans and Egyptians actually had a slight;y longer life expectancy, probably because of better Sanitation and overall a better diet than did your average human in the middle ages The average age for Egyptians who made it to adulthood was 53 and for Romans it was about 57. In 1850 in the UK, a quite advanced country at the time, less than half of those born in 1850 made it to their 50th birthday. Today 97% of those born can expect to make it to their 50th birthday and 80% can expect to make it to their 60th birthday
Yes overall our diets are better, and we have better sanitation and better and more effective health care. In countries today with good medical care the average life expectancy is over 80. not just the rare lucky person but Average.
It is less in the US but then our medical care isn’t that good.
古代少数非常罕见的人活到了老年，并不意味着整体预期寿命接近今天的长度。我们不是独一无二的，但我们平均来说肯定活得更长。
拉美西斯二世？相信我，他的生活比当时的其他人都要好得多，而埃及人的平均寿命并没有达到90岁或接近90岁。
在中世纪，一个人活到80岁是很罕见的，即使他很富有，在当时有最好的医疗服务，而且是男性。在1200年左右，如果一个人能够活到25岁（因此不包括婴儿和儿童的死亡率），他可以预期活到48岁。是的，少数人幸运地活得更长，但当检查实际记录时，罗马人和埃及人的预期寿命实际上略长，可能是因为更好的卫生设施和总体上比中世纪的普通人有更好的饮食。1850年，在英国这个当时相当先进的国家，1850年出生的人中只有不到一半能活到50岁生日。今天，97%的人可以活到50岁生日，80%的人可以活到60岁生日。
是的，总的来说，我们的饮食更好，我们有更好的卫生设施和更好、更有效的医疗保健。在今天拥有良好医疗服务的国家，平均预期寿命超过80岁，不仅仅是少数幸运的人，而是平均。
在美国则较少，我们的医疗服务并不那么好。
Nate Siress
I’d say the people are vastly unhealthier on average, not considering potential malnutrition that would be more prent, today as compared to the medi period. People’s lifestyles are much more sedentary, their diets less nourishing, etc.
But, our ability to save people from their unhealthy lifestyles is much greater, so we can stave off the short lifespan that such lifestyles invite, for much longer than they could have a thousand years ago.
我想说的是，与中世纪时期相比，现在人们的平均健康状况大不如前，这还没有考虑到潜在的营养不良问题，今天的营养不良现象会更加普遍。人们的生活方式更加久坐不动，他们的饮食不那么有营养，等等。
但是，我们将人们从不健康的生活方式中拯救出来的能力要比以往要大得多，所以我们可以避免这种生活方式所带来的短寿，比他们在一千年前的寿命长得多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I’d say the people are vastly unhealthier on average, not considering potential malnutrition that would be more prent, today as compared to the medi period. People’s lifestyles are much more sedentary, their diets less nourishing, etc.
But, our ability to save people from their unhealthy lifestyles is much greater, so we can stave off the short lifespan that such lifestyles invite, for much longer than they could have a thousand years ago.
我想说的是，与中世纪时期相比，现在人们的平均健康状况大不如前，这还没有考虑到潜在的营养不良问题，今天的营养不良现象会更加普遍。人们的生活方式更加久坐不动，他们的饮食不那么有营养，等等。
但是，我们将人们从不健康的生活方式中拯救出来的能力要比以往要大得多，所以我们可以避免这种生活方式所带来的短寿，比他们在一千年前的寿命长得多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Luke Hatherton
Their diets were nourishing - when they had enough to eat. Sort of. But the obesity epidemic today is rater recent and not nearly as serious in Europe.
I’d rather suffer health problems from too much food than too little.
他们的饮食是有营养的--只要他们有足够的食物。算是吧。但是今天的肥胖症流行是最近的事，而且在欧洲也没有那么严重。
我宁愿因食物过多而遭受健康问题，也不愿因食物过少而遭受健康问题。
Their diets were nourishing - when they had enough to eat. Sort of. But the obesity epidemic today is rater recent and not nearly as serious in Europe.
I’d rather suffer health problems from too much food than too little.
他们的饮食是有营养的--只要他们有足够的食物。算是吧。但是今天的肥胖症流行是最近的事，而且在欧洲也没有那么严重。
我宁愿因食物过多而遭受健康问题，也不愿因食物过少而遭受健康问题。
Angela Birch
Ah but that only was the wealthy who had an expectation of maybe making it to their 70s or 80s. The wealthy were a tiny froth on the waters.
Yes some wealthy lived as long as some wealthy lived in the 1800s but that wasn’t the story for the vast majority of people. Eleanor of Aquitaine lived to be 82. Good for her but that was rare even for the wives of royalty. Not one of Henry VIII wives made it past 50. It was rare for ordinary people to make it past 55 and even kings and queens rarely made it past 55.
Few farmers were lucky enough to make it past 55. a very few. When I was doing research for my masters part of it involved checking church registries in London and in rural England. Even those that survive infant mortality and high childhood mortality had little chance of making it to 70. Yes the rare one did, generally by luck just as a few people today with luck make it to over 100. But is sure wasn’t common.
啊哈，但那只是富人，他们的预期寿命也许能活到70岁或80岁。但是富人只是水面上的一个小泡沫。
是的，有些富人活得和19世纪的一些富人一样长，但这不是绝大多数人的故事。阿基坦的埃莉诺活到了82岁。这对她来说是好事，但即使对皇室成员的妻子来说，这也是罕见的。亨利八世的妻子中没有一个能活过50岁。普通人很少能活过55岁，甚至国王和王后也很少能活过55岁。
很少有农民能幸运地活过55岁，非常少。当我为我的硕士论文做研究时，其中一部分涉及检查伦敦和英格兰农村的教堂登记。即使是那些在婴儿死亡率和儿童高死亡率中幸存下来的人，也没有什么机会活到70岁。是的，很少的人做到了，一般是靠运气，就像今天有几个人靠运气活到了100岁以上。但肯定不常见。
Ah but that only was the wealthy who had an expectation of maybe making it to their 70s or 80s. The wealthy were a tiny froth on the waters.
Yes some wealthy lived as long as some wealthy lived in the 1800s but that wasn’t the story for the vast majority of people. Eleanor of Aquitaine lived to be 82. Good for her but that was rare even for the wives of royalty. Not one of Henry VIII wives made it past 50. It was rare for ordinary people to make it past 55 and even kings and queens rarely made it past 55.
Few farmers were lucky enough to make it past 55. a very few. When I was doing research for my masters part of it involved checking church registries in London and in rural England. Even those that survive infant mortality and high childhood mortality had little chance of making it to 70. Yes the rare one did, generally by luck just as a few people today with luck make it to over 100. But is sure wasn’t common.
啊哈，但那只是富人，他们的预期寿命也许能活到70岁或80岁。但是富人只是水面上的一个小泡沫。
是的，有些富人活得和19世纪的一些富人一样长，但这不是绝大多数人的故事。阿基坦的埃莉诺活到了82岁。这对她来说是好事，但即使对皇室成员的妻子来说，这也是罕见的。亨利八世的妻子中没有一个能活过50岁。普通人很少能活过55岁，甚至国王和王后也很少能活过55岁。
很少有农民能幸运地活过55岁，非常少。当我为我的硕士论文做研究时，其中一部分涉及检查伦敦和英格兰农村的教堂登记。即使是那些在婴儿死亡率和儿童高死亡率中幸存下来的人，也没有什么机会活到70岁。是的，很少的人做到了，一般是靠运气，就像今天有几个人靠运气活到了100岁以上。但肯定不常见。
Manisha G. Sahu
, I love to read
I'm sure you've heard of this quote below
This is a historical FACT. Only problem is, she never said it. It's not true.
This is one of the most famous quotes in History. Marie Antoinette was the wife of French King Louis XVI. In the late 1700s, France was feeling through a simmering hate in its peasants against the nobility and the royalty because of the extravagant lifestyle of the rich and the absolute poverty in the rest of the French.
So the story goes like this…
The Queen was informed of the extreme poverty and hunger in the kingdom and was told “the peasants don't have bread to eat”. Marie Antoinette “supposedly” told the informant that if they don't have bread, then let them eat cake. Now it must look like she was a heartless woman who did not pay heed to her subjects' misery and problems.
But here's a catch… She Never Said These Words.
At least there's no historical record to prove this. According to historian Lady Antonia Fraser, author of a biography of the French queen, the quote is highly uncharacteristic of Marie-Antoinette, an intelligent woman who donated generously to charitable causes and, despite her own undeniably lavish lifestyle, displayed sensitivity towards the poor population of France.
What's more interesting is that the quote “let them eat cake” was not unheard of even before the time of Queen Marie Antoinette. Spanish Princess Marie Therese in 1660 is also said to have spoken similar words.
A similar statement also erupts from the Jin Dynasty of China. When the young prince of the Western Jin province was that that the people had no rice after the famines, he supposedly said that if they don't have rice, let them eat porridge with mince meat.
Philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau is said to have written the cake quote in 1766 and mentioned that “a princess” said these words. The problem is, in 1766, Queen Marie was only around 10 years old.
Plus, if she had spoken these words at all, somewhere someone should have recorded them. No historical records prove so too.
World's first fake news? May be!…
我相信你一定听说过下面这句话：
这是一个历史事实。唯一的问题是，她从未说过这句话。这不是真的。
这是历史上最有名的名言之一。玛丽-安托瓦内特是法国国王路易十六的妻子。17世纪末，法国正在感受到农民对贵族和皇室的仇恨，因为富人的奢侈生活和其他法国人的绝对贫困。
所以故事是这样的......
皇后被告知王国的极端贫困和饥饿，并被告知 "农民没有面包可吃"。玛丽-安托瓦内特"据说"告诉举报人，如果他们没有面包，那就让他们吃蛋糕。现在看来，她一定是个无情的女人，对她的臣民的苦难和问题不闻不问。
但这里有一个问题......她从未说过这些话。
至少没有历史记录可以证明这一点。根据历史学家安东尼娅-弗雷泽女士（法国皇后传的作者）的说法，这句话极不符合玛丽-安托瓦内特的性格，她是一个聪明的女人，为慈善事业慷慨解囊，尽管她自己的生活方式不可否认的奢华，但对法国的贫困人口表现出敏感。
更有趣的是，"让他们吃蛋糕"这句话甚至在玛丽-安托瓦内特女王的时代之前就不是没有听说过。据说1660年的西班牙公主玛丽-特蕾莎也曾说过类似的话。
中国的晋朝也有过类似的言论。当西晋的年轻王子在饥荒之后，人民没有米饭时，据说他说，如果他们没有米饭，为什么不吃肉末呢。
据说哲学家让-雅克-卢梭在1766年写下了这句蛋糕语录，并提到是"一位公主"说了这些话。问题是，在1766年，玛丽皇后只有10岁左右。
另外，如果她确实说过这些话，在某个地方应该有人记录下来。但没有历史记录也证明了这一点。
世界上第一个假新闻？可能吧！...
, I love to read
I'm sure you've heard of this quote below
This is a historical FACT. Only problem is, she never said it. It's not true.
This is one of the most famous quotes in History. Marie Antoinette was the wife of French King Louis XVI. In the late 1700s, France was feeling through a simmering hate in its peasants against the nobility and the royalty because of the extravagant lifestyle of the rich and the absolute poverty in the rest of the French.
So the story goes like this…
The Queen was informed of the extreme poverty and hunger in the kingdom and was told “the peasants don't have bread to eat”. Marie Antoinette “supposedly” told the informant that if they don't have bread, then let them eat cake. Now it must look like she was a heartless woman who did not pay heed to her subjects' misery and problems.
But here's a catch… She Never Said These Words.
At least there's no historical record to prove this. According to historian Lady Antonia Fraser, author of a biography of the French queen, the quote is highly uncharacteristic of Marie-Antoinette, an intelligent woman who donated generously to charitable causes and, despite her own undeniably lavish lifestyle, displayed sensitivity towards the poor population of France.
What's more interesting is that the quote “let them eat cake” was not unheard of even before the time of Queen Marie Antoinette. Spanish Princess Marie Therese in 1660 is also said to have spoken similar words.
A similar statement also erupts from the Jin Dynasty of China. When the young prince of the Western Jin province was that that the people had no rice after the famines, he supposedly said that if they don't have rice, let them eat porridge with mince meat.
Philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau is said to have written the cake quote in 1766 and mentioned that “a princess” said these words. The problem is, in 1766, Queen Marie was only around 10 years old.
Plus, if she had spoken these words at all, somewhere someone should have recorded them. No historical records prove so too.
World's first fake news? May be!…
我相信你一定听说过下面这句话：
这是一个历史事实。唯一的问题是，她从未说过这句话。这不是真的。
这是历史上最有名的名言之一。玛丽-安托瓦内特是法国国王路易十六的妻子。17世纪末，法国正在感受到农民对贵族和皇室的仇恨，因为富人的奢侈生活和其他法国人的绝对贫困。
所以故事是这样的......
皇后被告知王国的极端贫困和饥饿，并被告知 "农民没有面包可吃"。玛丽-安托瓦内特"据说"告诉举报人，如果他们没有面包，那就让他们吃蛋糕。现在看来，她一定是个无情的女人，对她的臣民的苦难和问题不闻不问。
但这里有一个问题......她从未说过这些话。
至少没有历史记录可以证明这一点。根据历史学家安东尼娅-弗雷泽女士（法国皇后传的作者）的说法，这句话极不符合玛丽-安托瓦内特的性格，她是一个聪明的女人，为慈善事业慷慨解囊，尽管她自己的生活方式不可否认的奢华，但对法国的贫困人口表现出敏感。
更有趣的是，"让他们吃蛋糕"这句话甚至在玛丽-安托瓦内特女王的时代之前就不是没有听说过。据说1660年的西班牙公主玛丽-特蕾莎也曾说过类似的话。
中国的晋朝也有过类似的言论。当西晋的年轻王子在饥荒之后，人民没有米饭时，据说他说，如果他们没有米饭，为什么不吃肉末呢。
据说哲学家让-雅克-卢梭在1766年写下了这句蛋糕语录，并提到是"一位公主"说了这些话。问题是，在1766年，玛丽皇后只有10岁左右。
另外，如果她确实说过这些话，在某个地方应该有人记录下来。但没有历史记录也证明了这一点。
世界上第一个假新闻？可能吧！...
Sridhar Ramamoorthy
Probably that statement gained fame, because it was put in the mouth of a ‘Rich’ queen by some leftist rebel of France.
这句话之所以出名，可能是因为它被法国左翼叛者安到了“富裕”的皇后身上。
Probably that statement gained fame, because it was put in the mouth of a ‘Rich’ queen by some leftist rebel of France.
这句话之所以出名，可能是因为它被法国左翼叛者安到了“富裕”的皇后身上。
Lasso Atrain
, studied at Las Positas College
What historical 'fact' is often repeated but simply not true?
The accusations that republicans are racist is a STRAIGHT UP lie. Find for me one single historical case of the republicans taking an action for a racial hate reason. Let me restore the facts. The democrats were primarily occupying the southern states and were the plantation owners who for the most part used slave labor and kept slaves. The north was primarily republicans and wanted to abolish slavery because mostly their religious beliefs. They saw slavery as a sin against god and thought it imoral. They made free states in the north where slavery was illgal. The south passed a law saying that if someone in a free state had knowlodge of a runaway slave and did not report it or if they tried to hide the runaway slave they would be arrested. That angered the north greatly becausr they woere put between a rock and a hard place .Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
Next a slave named drew Scott traveled with his master to a free state where his owner passed away unexpectedly. So drew Scott sued for his freedom being in a free state. The supreme court took the case and 7 supreme court justices voted on it. 5 democrats voted no he was born a slave and would remain a slave the rest of his life. 2 republicans voted yes he is a free man. This led to the civil war eventually. during the civil war Lincoln a republican freed the slaves.after the republican north won the war a democrat shot and killed Lincoln the republican that had freed the slaves. Then the democrats not happy becausr they had no slaves to run their plantations started the KKK and killed many of the former slaves .The south segregated the blacks from the whites all the way up to the 1960's and pretty much made their lives miserable. Even now the democrats instead of teaching that as americans we are all equal. they teach that the blacks and other people of color are a diversity which means different . the democrats try and say the republicans are responsible for the inequality. The democrats are forcing our children to be racist. They teach the children that the white people are white supremacist. The truth is it was not a race that kept slaves it was a political party , the democrat party . The republicans are responsible for the ideology that as americans we are all the same .color has no place in politics in a country where by its constitution we are americans not a diversity. It has its flaws but we were well on our way and no doubt could of been closer to our goal if the democrats didn't Instigate riffs between our own citizens for no other reason but for political gain so that they may remain in power and rip us off blind. Trust me the truth is the republicans are not the racist .And that's why history is important..
指责共和党人是种族主义者，这是一个彻头彻尾的谎言。给我找一个共和党人因种族仇恨而采取行动的历史案例。让我还原一下事实。是民主党人主要占领了南部各州，他们是种植园主，大部分使用奴隶劳动并保留奴隶。北方主要是共和党人，想要废除奴隶制，主要是因为他们的宗教信仰。他们认为奴隶制是对上帝的罪恶，认为它不道德。他们在北方建立了自由州，那里的奴隶制是不合法的。南方通过了一项法律，规定如果自由州的人知道有一个逃跑的奴隶而不报告，或者试图隐藏逃跑的奴隶，他们将被逮捕。这极大地激怒了北方，因为他们被置于两难境地，做不做都要受罚。
接下来，一个名叫德鲁-斯科特的奴隶与他的主人一起来到一个自由州，他的主人意外地去世了。因此，德鲁-斯科特为他在自由州的自由而提起诉讼。最高法院受理了此案，7位最高法院法官进行了投票。5位民主党人投票反对，说他生来就是奴隶，并且在他的余生都将是奴隶。2名共和党人投票赞成，说他是一个自由人。这最终导致了内战。在内战期间，共和党人林肯释放了奴隶。在共和党的北方赢得战争后，一个民主党人开枪打死了释放奴隶的共和党人林肯。然后，民主党人不高兴了，因为他们没有奴隶来管理他们的种植园，于是成立了三K党，并杀害了许多前奴隶。南方将黑人与白人隔离，一直到20世纪60年代，几乎使他们的生活陷入困境。即使是现在，民主党人也没有教导作为美国人我们都是平等的。他们教导黑人和其他有色人种是一种多样性，这意味着不同。民主党人正在强迫我们的孩子成为种族主义者。他们教孩子们说白人是白人至上主义者。事实是，保留奴隶的并不是一个种族，而是一个政党，即民主党。共和党要对这种意识形态负责，即作为美国人我们都是一样的。在一个根据宪法我们是美国人而不是多样性的国家，肤色在政治上没有任何地位。它有其缺陷，但我们已经走得很远了，而且毫无疑问，如果民主党人是为了政治利益而在我们自己的公民之间挑拨离间，如此一来他们就可以继续执政，并盲目地撕毁我们的目标。相信我，事实是共和党人不是种族主义者，这就是为什么历史很重要。
, studied at Las Positas College
What historical 'fact' is often repeated but simply not true?
The accusations that republicans are racist is a STRAIGHT UP lie. Find for me one single historical case of the republicans taking an action for a racial hate reason. Let me restore the facts. The democrats were primarily occupying the southern states and were the plantation owners who for the most part used slave labor and kept slaves. The north was primarily republicans and wanted to abolish slavery because mostly their religious beliefs. They saw slavery as a sin against god and thought it imoral. They made free states in the north where slavery was illgal. The south passed a law saying that if someone in a free state had knowlodge of a runaway slave and did not report it or if they tried to hide the runaway slave they would be arrested. That angered the north greatly becausr they woere put between a rock and a hard place .Damned if they did and damned if they didn't.
Next a slave named drew Scott traveled with his master to a free state where his owner passed away unexpectedly. So drew Scott sued for his freedom being in a free state. The supreme court took the case and 7 supreme court justices voted on it. 5 democrats voted no he was born a slave and would remain a slave the rest of his life. 2 republicans voted yes he is a free man. This led to the civil war eventually. during the civil war Lincoln a republican freed the slaves.after the republican north won the war a democrat shot and killed Lincoln the republican that had freed the slaves. Then the democrats not happy becausr they had no slaves to run their plantations started the KKK and killed many of the former slaves .The south segregated the blacks from the whites all the way up to the 1960's and pretty much made their lives miserable. Even now the democrats instead of teaching that as americans we are all equal. they teach that the blacks and other people of color are a diversity which means different . the democrats try and say the republicans are responsible for the inequality. The democrats are forcing our children to be racist. They teach the children that the white people are white supremacist. The truth is it was not a race that kept slaves it was a political party , the democrat party . The republicans are responsible for the ideology that as americans we are all the same .color has no place in politics in a country where by its constitution we are americans not a diversity. It has its flaws but we were well on our way and no doubt could of been closer to our goal if the democrats didn't Instigate riffs between our own citizens for no other reason but for political gain so that they may remain in power and rip us off blind. Trust me the truth is the republicans are not the racist .And that's why history is important..
指责共和党人是种族主义者，这是一个彻头彻尾的谎言。给我找一个共和党人因种族仇恨而采取行动的历史案例。让我还原一下事实。是民主党人主要占领了南部各州，他们是种植园主，大部分使用奴隶劳动并保留奴隶。北方主要是共和党人，想要废除奴隶制，主要是因为他们的宗教信仰。他们认为奴隶制是对上帝的罪恶，认为它不道德。他们在北方建立了自由州，那里的奴隶制是不合法的。南方通过了一项法律，规定如果自由州的人知道有一个逃跑的奴隶而不报告，或者试图隐藏逃跑的奴隶，他们将被逮捕。这极大地激怒了北方，因为他们被置于两难境地，做不做都要受罚。
接下来，一个名叫德鲁-斯科特的奴隶与他的主人一起来到一个自由州，他的主人意外地去世了。因此，德鲁-斯科特为他在自由州的自由而提起诉讼。最高法院受理了此案，7位最高法院法官进行了投票。5位民主党人投票反对，说他生来就是奴隶，并且在他的余生都将是奴隶。2名共和党人投票赞成，说他是一个自由人。这最终导致了内战。在内战期间，共和党人林肯释放了奴隶。在共和党的北方赢得战争后，一个民主党人开枪打死了释放奴隶的共和党人林肯。然后，民主党人不高兴了，因为他们没有奴隶来管理他们的种植园，于是成立了三K党，并杀害了许多前奴隶。南方将黑人与白人隔离，一直到20世纪60年代，几乎使他们的生活陷入困境。即使是现在，民主党人也没有教导作为美国人我们都是平等的。他们教导黑人和其他有色人种是一种多样性，这意味着不同。民主党人正在强迫我们的孩子成为种族主义者。他们教孩子们说白人是白人至上主义者。事实是，保留奴隶的并不是一个种族，而是一个政党，即民主党。共和党要对这种意识形态负责，即作为美国人我们都是一样的。在一个根据宪法我们是美国人而不是多样性的国家，肤色在政治上没有任何地位。它有其缺陷，但我们已经走得很远了，而且毫无疑问，如果民主党人是为了政治利益而在我们自己的公民之间挑拨离间，如此一来他们就可以继续执政，并盲目地撕毁我们的目标。相信我，事实是共和党人不是种族主义者，这就是为什么历史很重要。
Douglas Dea
No Moses or Exodus.
The entire first half of the Old Testament is completely wrong. There is no evidence any of it happened. Hebrews were not slaves in Egypt but mostly common citizens, some were soldiers. (Individual Hebrews may have been slaves.) There is no evidence for a Moses figure or any time of the Plagues. No evidence of any Exodus, no mysterious loss of an Egyptian army. Although it is possible that the Exodus story comes from a corrupted version of the Hyksos invasion and later expulsion. (In fact, during the period historians place the events of the Exodus in, Egypt controlled the Canaanite lands. So Moses would have been leading his people from the center of Egypt to the edge, but not out of it.)
There is no evidence of the Conquest of Canaan either. Some of the towns supposedly conquered were not built yet at the time. Others were ruins. Most were small villages with no walls which could be "conquered" by a few dozen thugs with clubs. No great disruption of Canaanite society is noted during the given time frx so there was no invasion or massive upheaval.
Further, that whole section of the OT which describes the population of the Tribes and how each had such-n-such thousands of troops and hundreds of chariots? The entire population of the region until late BC times was between 50-70K. So unless every man, woman and child was counted 2-3 times those numbers are all false.
Basically everything up to and including the David and Solomon stories are completely wrong.
没有摩西和出埃及记。
整个《旧约》的前半部分都是完全错误的。没有任何证据表明这一切发生过。希伯来人在埃及不是奴隶，大部分是普通公民，有些是士兵。(个别希伯来人可能是奴隶。)没有证据表明有摩西这个人物或任何时候的天谴。没有任何出埃及的证据，没有埃及军队的神秘损失。尽管有可能出埃及的故事来自于希克索斯人入侵和后来被驱逐的一个降级版本。(事实上，在历史学家们将出埃及事件放在的那个时期，埃及控制着迦南人的土地。因此，摩西要带也是带领他的人民从埃及的中心到边缘，但不是离开埃及）。
也没有征服迦南的证据。一些所谓被征服的城镇在当时还没有建成。其他的则是废墟。大多数是没有城墙的小村庄，可以被几十个拿着棍棒的暴徒"征服"。在给定的时间范围内，没有记录迦南社会的巨大混乱，所以没有入侵或大规模的动乱。
此外，旧约中描述各部落人口的那一节，以及每个部落如何拥有这样那样的军队和数百辆战车？直到公元前后期，该地区的全部人口都在5-7万之间。因此，除非每个男人、女人和孩子都被数过2-3次，否则这些数字都是假的。
基本上，包括大卫和所罗门的故事在内的所有内容都是完全错误的。
No Moses or Exodus.
The entire first half of the Old Testament is completely wrong. There is no evidence any of it happened. Hebrews were not slaves in Egypt but mostly common citizens, some were soldiers. (Individual Hebrews may have been slaves.) There is no evidence for a Moses figure or any time of the Plagues. No evidence of any Exodus, no mysterious loss of an Egyptian army. Although it is possible that the Exodus story comes from a corrupted version of the Hyksos invasion and later expulsion. (In fact, during the period historians place the events of the Exodus in, Egypt controlled the Canaanite lands. So Moses would have been leading his people from the center of Egypt to the edge, but not out of it.)
There is no evidence of the Conquest of Canaan either. Some of the towns supposedly conquered were not built yet at the time. Others were ruins. Most were small villages with no walls which could be "conquered" by a few dozen thugs with clubs. No great disruption of Canaanite society is noted during the given time frx so there was no invasion or massive upheaval.
Further, that whole section of the OT which describes the population of the Tribes and how each had such-n-such thousands of troops and hundreds of chariots? The entire population of the region until late BC times was between 50-70K. So unless every man, woman and child was counted 2-3 times those numbers are all false.
Basically everything up to and including the David and Solomon stories are completely wrong.
没有摩西和出埃及记。
整个《旧约》的前半部分都是完全错误的。没有任何证据表明这一切发生过。希伯来人在埃及不是奴隶，大部分是普通公民，有些是士兵。(个别希伯来人可能是奴隶。)没有证据表明有摩西这个人物或任何时候的天谴。没有任何出埃及的证据，没有埃及军队的神秘损失。尽管有可能出埃及的故事来自于希克索斯人入侵和后来被驱逐的一个降级版本。(事实上，在历史学家们将出埃及事件放在的那个时期，埃及控制着迦南人的土地。因此，摩西要带也是带领他的人民从埃及的中心到边缘，但不是离开埃及）。
也没有征服迦南的证据。一些所谓被征服的城镇在当时还没有建成。其他的则是废墟。大多数是没有城墙的小村庄，可以被几十个拿着棍棒的暴徒"征服"。在给定的时间范围内，没有记录迦南社会的巨大混乱，所以没有入侵或大规模的动乱。
此外，旧约中描述各部落人口的那一节，以及每个部落如何拥有这样那样的军队和数百辆战车？直到公元前后期，该地区的全部人口都在5-7万之间。因此，除非每个男人、女人和孩子都被数过2-3次，否则这些数字都是假的。
基本上，包括大卫和所罗门的故事在内的所有内容都是完全错误的。
Michael Bennes
, Apprentice at Southland Electric (2016-present)
That the crusades were nothing but an excuse for Europeans to plunder Asia and the Holy Land. I was bombarded by this sentiment in various media, whether it was the history channel or games like age of empires 2. For a time I was actually convinced by this ridiculous notion.
The idea that crusaders would be motivated by anything other than material greed doesn't seem to cross the minds of most people I converse with on the subject. The truth, however, is that faith was a major cultural influence in the medi era, and Pope Urban II’s call to defend Christendom in Asia was taken as seriously back then as was FDR’s call to fight the Second World War. That plunder and slaughter occurred in the course of these campaigns is simply a natural part of warfare at that time. Plunder was required to fulfill the monetary comars of a campaign, and slaughter, while regrettable, was part and parcel of conquests at the time.
十字军东征只不过是欧洲人掠夺亚洲和圣地的一个借口。我在各种媒体上被这种观点轰炸，无论是历史频道还是《帝国时代2》等游戏。有一段时间，我确实被这种荒谬的观念所说服。
与我讨论这个问题的大多数人似乎都没有想到十字军会出于物质贪婪之外的其他动机。然而，事实是，在中世纪，信仰是一种主要的文化影响，教皇乌尔班二世在亚洲保卫基督教的号召，在当时就像罗斯福号召参加第二次世界大战一样被重视。在这些战役中发生的掠夺和屠杀，只是当时战争的一个自然组成部分。掠夺是为了得到进行战役的后勤，而屠杀虽然令人遗憾，但在当时是征服的重要组成部分。
, Apprentice at Southland Electric (2016-present)
That the crusades were nothing but an excuse for Europeans to plunder Asia and the Holy Land. I was bombarded by this sentiment in various media, whether it was the history channel or games like age of empires 2. For a time I was actually convinced by this ridiculous notion.
The idea that crusaders would be motivated by anything other than material greed doesn't seem to cross the minds of most people I converse with on the subject. The truth, however, is that faith was a major cultural influence in the medi era, and Pope Urban II’s call to defend Christendom in Asia was taken as seriously back then as was FDR’s call to fight the Second World War. That plunder and slaughter occurred in the course of these campaigns is simply a natural part of warfare at that time. Plunder was required to fulfill the monetary comars of a campaign, and slaughter, while regrettable, was part and parcel of conquests at the time.
十字军东征只不过是欧洲人掠夺亚洲和圣地的一个借口。我在各种媒体上被这种观点轰炸，无论是历史频道还是《帝国时代2》等游戏。有一段时间，我确实被这种荒谬的观念所说服。
与我讨论这个问题的大多数人似乎都没有想到十字军会出于物质贪婪之外的其他动机。然而，事实是，在中世纪，信仰是一种主要的文化影响，教皇乌尔班二世在亚洲保卫基督教的号召，在当时就像罗斯福号召参加第二次世界大战一样被重视。在这些战役中发生的掠夺和屠杀，只是当时战争的一个自然组成部分。掠夺是为了得到进行战役的后勤，而屠杀虽然令人遗憾，但在当时是征服的重要组成部分。
Hsiaoshuang Chen
The crusaders also plundered Christian states that stood in their path, right?
但是十字军也掠夺了站在他们这边的基督教国家，对吧？
The crusaders also plundered Christian states that stood in their path, right?
但是十字军也掠夺了站在他们这边的基督教国家，对吧？
Bill Meyer
They also fail to mention that it was in part a retaliation for attacks by muslim countries in East, West, and Southern Europe. For hundreds of years they had been conquering parts of Europe and raiding for slaves.
他们也没有提到，这部分是对穆斯林国家在东欧、西欧和南欧发动袭击的报复。几百年来，他们一直在征服欧洲的部分地区，掠夺奴隶。
They also fail to mention that it was in part a retaliation for attacks by muslim countries in East, West, and Southern Europe. For hundreds of years they had been conquering parts of Europe and raiding for slaves.
他们也没有提到，这部分是对穆斯林国家在东欧、西欧和南欧发动袭击的报复。几百年来，他们一直在征服欧洲的部分地区，掠夺奴隶。
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