网友讨论：在美国人眼中，意大利人到底算不算白人？
正文翻译
I thought this was meme, but now I'm conflicted. As an Italian I consider myself white (meet me in person, I'm basically translucent lol), but I'd like to hear your honest opinions.
我以前以为这只是个迷因，但现在我陷入了矛盾冲突。作为意大利人，我自认为是白人（如果你私下里见到我，会发现我基本上是半透明的呵呵），但我希望你们能说出真实的看法。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I thought this was meme, but now I'm conflicted. As an Italian I consider myself white (meet me in person, I'm basically translucent lol), but I'd like to hear your honest opinions.
我以前以为这只是个迷因，但现在我陷入了矛盾冲突。作为意大利人，我自认为是白人（如果你私下里见到我，会发现我基本上是半透明的呵呵），但我希望你们能说出真实的看法。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
评论翻译
My dad’s uncle went by Bob because he didn’t want to be discriminated against by using his real name - also Dominic. From the Philly area out in the suburbs. Rich people didn’t care for Italian Catholics.
（回）我爸爸的叔叔是用鲍勃这个名字行走江湖的，因为他不希望自己在使用真名时被歧视，他的真名也叫多米尼克。他来自费城地区的郊区。当时的富人是不把意大利裔天主教徒当回事的。
（译注：马里奥·普佐（1920—1999），意大利裔美国作家，代表作为犯罪小说《教父》《西西里人》等）
Snoo33903
Italians are 50% marinara and 50% wine. So all around a good time regardless of color.
意大利人是50%的蒜香番茄酱加上50%的葡萄酒。所以无论是什么肤色，总能享受美好时光。
808hammerhead
Italian here..no. I’m Italian (specifically Sicilian). To me whiteness is a cultural thing, and ours is different. I’ve felt this way since grade school, I always marked “other” on CTBS tests. To me white people are northern and eastern Europeans. I’m not trying to say we’re an oppressed minority, we’re just a different culture than Northern Europeans.
我是意大利人....我不觉得自己是白人。我是意大利人（确切说是西西里人）。对我来说，白人是文化意义上的，而我们的文化是不同的。我从小学起就有这种感觉了，在CTBS基因测试中，我总会把自己标注为“其他”。在我看来，白人就是北欧人和东欧人。我的意思并不是说我们是受压迫的少数族群，只是在文化上，我们真的不同于北欧人。
thephoton
There's a scene in Its a Wonderful Life where Mr. Potter tells George (Jimmy Stewart) he shouldn't give home loans to "garlic eaters".
（加州）在电影《生活多美好》（1946）中有一幕，波特先生告诉乔治（詹姆斯·斯图尔特饰）说，他不应该把房贷放给“吃大蒜的人”。
There's a scene in Its a Wonderful Life where Mr. Potter tells George (Jimmy Stewart) he shouldn't give home loans to "garlic eaters".
（加州）在电影《生活多美好》（1946）中有一幕，波特先生告诉乔治（詹姆斯·斯图尔特饰）说，他不应该把房贷放给“吃大蒜的人”。
AS someone who used 12 cloves of garlic while cooking for myself yesterday: what a sad life to not like garlic.
（回，华盛顿人）我昨天给自己做饭时，可是用掉了12瓣大蒜：要是不喜欢吃大蒜，这人生得多可悲啊。
（回，华盛顿人）我昨天给自己做饭时，可是用掉了12瓣大蒜：要是不喜欢吃大蒜，这人生得多可悲啊。
mdp300
My grandfather was born in New Jersey in 1918. He served in WWII, went to college, and then had a hard time getting a job because Dominic was too ethnic of a name.
（新泽西）我的祖父1918年出生于新泽西州。他在二战中服过役，上过大学，之后却很难找到工作，因为多米尼克这个名字的种族意味太过浓重了。
（译注：Dominic为多见于天主教国家的男名，亦多见于美国意裔群体）
My grandfather was born in New Jersey in 1918. He served in WWII, went to college, and then had a hard time getting a job because Dominic was too ethnic of a name.
（新泽西）我的祖父1918年出生于新泽西州。他在二战中服过役，上过大学，之后却很难找到工作，因为多米尼克这个名字的种族意味太过浓重了。
（译注：Dominic为多见于天主教国家的男名，亦多见于美国意裔群体）
My dad’s uncle went by Bob because he didn’t want to be discriminated against by using his real name - also Dominic. From the Philly area out in the suburbs. Rich people didn’t care for Italian Catholics.
（回）我爸爸的叔叔是用鲍勃这个名字行走江湖的，因为他不希望自己在使用真名时被歧视，他的真名也叫多米尼克。他来自费城地区的郊区。当时的富人是不把意大利裔天主教徒当回事的。
PAUMiklo
Don't forget us dirty dumb Polacks
别忘了我们这些又脏又蠢的波兰佬。
Don't forget us dirty dumb Polacks
别忘了我们这些又脏又蠢的波兰佬。
Hey, what about us fuckin' Mexicans? Our white cards coming in the mail yet?
（回，加州）嘿，那我们这些该死的墨西哥人又要怎么说呢？我们还没有收到白人卡吗？
（回，加州）嘿，那我们这些该死的墨西哥人又要怎么说呢？我们还没有收到白人卡吗？
PraiseGod_BareBone
The Italians, along with Irish, Scandinavians etc were considered 'the ethnic vote' in the US and polled separately because they as a group had a difference in political outlook from generic 'whites'. This only ended with the election of Ronald Reagan, where the old 'ethnic vote' pretty much became indistinguishable from the white vote and they stopped polling Irish, Italians, etc separately. Now it's sort of quaint politically to assume there is such a thing as an ethnic vote even in things like if we should celebrate columbus day and etc.
（科罗拉多）在美国，意大利人，连同爱尔兰人和斯堪的纳维亚人等等被看成了“少数族裔选票”，会单独对他们进行民意调查，因为他们这个群体在政治观点上与一般的“白人”是不同的。这种情况直到罗纳德里根当选后才消失，直到那时，从前的“少数族裔选票”才变得和白人选票没有区别，他们不再单独对爱尔兰人、意大利人等族裔进行调查。而如今，即使是在我们是否应该庆祝哥伦布日之类的议题上，去假定存在这么一种少数族裔选票，从政治角度看也是有点古怪的。
（译注：哥伦布日纪念的是哥伦布于1492年首次登上美洲大陆，系美国规模最大的展示意大利文化传统的庆祝活动）
The Italians, along with Irish, Scandinavians etc were considered 'the ethnic vote' in the US and polled separately because they as a group had a difference in political outlook from generic 'whites'. This only ended with the election of Ronald Reagan, where the old 'ethnic vote' pretty much became indistinguishable from the white vote and they stopped polling Irish, Italians, etc separately. Now it's sort of quaint politically to assume there is such a thing as an ethnic vote even in things like if we should celebrate columbus day and etc.
（科罗拉多）在美国，意大利人，连同爱尔兰人和斯堪的纳维亚人等等被看成了“少数族裔选票”，会单独对他们进行民意调查，因为他们这个群体在政治观点上与一般的“白人”是不同的。这种情况直到罗纳德里根当选后才消失，直到那时，从前的“少数族裔选票”才变得和白人选票没有区别，他们不再单独对爱尔兰人、意大利人等族裔进行调查。而如今，即使是在我们是否应该庆祝哥伦布日之类的议题上，去假定存在这么一种少数族裔选票，从政治角度看也是有点古怪的。
（译注：哥伦布日纪念的是哥伦布于1492年首次登上美洲大陆，系美国规模最大的展示意大利文化传统的庆祝活动）
Logical-Literature-6
In the Sopranos (2000) Ralphie was called a guinea motherfucker.
（亚利桑那）在美剧《黑道家族》（2000）中，拉尔菲被人称为几内亚混蛋。
In the Sopranos (2000) Ralphie was called a guinea motherfucker.
（亚利桑那）在美剧《黑道家族》（2000）中，拉尔菲被人称为几内亚混蛋。
Boring-Suburban-Dad
Lol yes, I’m white. When my grandma was growing up we were just greasy, poor, criminal, Catholic Degos. We were still white, but not “good” whites. The same kind of “bad” whites as the Irish and Jews to an extent. By the time my ma was born in the 70s we were becoming hot shit thanks to Mario Puzo.
呵呵是的，我是白人。在我奶奶的成长岁月中，我们意大利人不过是些油腻、贫穷、作奸犯科、信天主教的堕落份子。当时的我们仍被算作白人，但不是“优等”白人。从某种程度上说，他们和爱尔兰人、犹太人一样，同属于这种“下等”白人。而到了我妈降生的时代，也就是七十年代，因为马里奥·普佐，我们慢慢变成炙手可热的存在了。
Lol yes, I’m white. When my grandma was growing up we were just greasy, poor, criminal, Catholic Degos. We were still white, but not “good” whites. The same kind of “bad” whites as the Irish and Jews to an extent. By the time my ma was born in the 70s we were becoming hot shit thanks to Mario Puzo.
呵呵是的，我是白人。在我奶奶的成长岁月中，我们意大利人不过是些油腻、贫穷、作奸犯科、信天主教的堕落份子。当时的我们仍被算作白人，但不是“优等”白人。从某种程度上说，他们和爱尔兰人、犹太人一样，同属于这种“下等”白人。而到了我妈降生的时代，也就是七十年代，因为马里奥·普佐，我们慢慢变成炙手可热的存在了。
（译注：马里奥·普佐（1920—1999），意大利裔美国作家，代表作为犯罪小说《教父》《西西里人》等）
I've seen the "Irish Temper, Italian Attitude" bumper sticker on a few trucks in the Boston area.
（回，俄勒冈）我在波士顿地区的一些卡车上见到过字样为“爱尔兰脾气，意大利态度”的车尾贴。
（回，俄勒冈）我在波士顿地区的一些卡车上见到过字样为“爱尔兰脾气，意大利态度”的车尾贴。
devilthedankdawg
Lol so many “Bad whites”
（马萨诸塞）哈哈哈有这么多“下等白人”
Lol so many “Bad whites”
（马萨诸塞）哈哈哈有这么多“下等白人”
What they don't realize is that we probably have the cleanest homes and are far from dumb! My daughter's friends say our home is so clean, it's like a museum....lol!
（回）他们没有意识到的是，我们的家可能是最干净的，而且远没有他们那么愚蠢！我女儿的朋友说我们的家简直太干净了，跟博物馆似的....呵呵！
（回）他们没有意识到的是，我们的家可能是最干净的，而且远没有他们那么愚蠢！我女儿的朋友说我们的家简直太干净了，跟博物馆似的....呵呵！
imapissonitdripdrip
Most Europeans are white
（田纳西）大部分欧洲人都是白人。
Most Europeans are white
（田纳西）大部分欧洲人都是白人。
Just, not according to any European who lives to the north of the European in question.
Italians? They're not really European. -France
French? They're all short, dark and dirty. -Germany
Germans? They're practically Sicilian. - Denmark
Danes? Not even close to proper Europeans. -Norway
（回，威斯康星）只是，根据那些住在欧洲偏北地区的欧洲人的说法，大部分欧洲人都不是白人。
法国：意大利人？他们不是真正的欧洲人
德国：法国人？他们都又矮又黑，还脏兮兮的
丹麦：德国人？他们其实是西西里人
挪威：丹麦人？和真正的欧洲人还差得远呢
Italians? They're not really European. -France
French? They're all short, dark and dirty. -Germany
Germans? They're practically Sicilian. - Denmark
Danes? Not even close to proper Europeans. -Norway
（回，威斯康星）只是，根据那些住在欧洲偏北地区的欧洲人的说法，大部分欧洲人都不是白人。
法国：意大利人？他们不是真正的欧洲人
德国：法国人？他们都又矮又黑，还脏兮兮的
丹麦：德国人？他们其实是西西里人
挪威：丹麦人？和真正的欧洲人还差得远呢
I used to think American racism was the most absurd until I encountered European racism. They’re both really absurd but my goodness there’s some petty racism.
（回，美国东南）我曾经认为美国的种族主义是最荒谬的，直到我碰到了欧洲的种族主义。它们确实都很荒唐，但我的老天呐，那里存在一些特别琐碎的种族主义。
（回，美国东南）我曾经认为美国的种族主义是最荒谬的，直到我碰到了欧洲的种族主义。它们确实都很荒唐，但我的老天呐，那里存在一些特别琐碎的种族主义。
Europeans will say there's no racism in their countries and then turn heel immediately when you bring up the Roma
All of a sudden it's "well, you know theyre-" and the excuses start flying
（回，乔治亚）欧洲人会说他们的国家不存在种族主义，可是当你提起罗姆人（即吉普赛人）这茬时，他们就会立刻转身走人。
突然一间就变成了：“好吧，你也知道他们很...”，然后借口就开始满天飞了。
All of a sudden it's "well, you know theyre-" and the excuses start flying
（回，乔治亚）欧洲人会说他们的国家不存在种族主义，可是当你提起罗姆人（即吉普赛人）这茬时，他们就会立刻转身走人。
突然一间就变成了：“好吧，你也知道他们很...”，然后借口就开始满天飞了。
Absolutely. The places that always call out others for being racist are usually the more racist if the two. Same thing happens in parts of the US
（回）绝对是的。那些总是骂别人种族主义者的地方，通常种族主义都更严重。同样的事情也发生在美国的部分地区。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
（回）绝对是的。那些总是骂别人种族主义者的地方，通常种族主义都更严重。同样的事情也发生在美国的部分地区。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Intra-Asian racism would like a word...
（回）亚洲人内部的种族主义有话说…
（回）亚洲人内部的种族主义有话说…
As an Asian American I’m familiar
（回）作为一个亚裔美国人，我非常熟悉这些
（回）作为一个亚裔美国人，我非常熟悉这些
Man, I didn't know it was real until I spent a year abroad. Korean and Japanese people in the same room is damn uncomfortable
（回）我以前不知道他们内部存在这样的种族主义， 直到我去海外待了一年。韩国人和日本人同处一室的时候，会超级不自在。
（回）我以前不知道他们内部存在这样的种族主义， 直到我去海外待了一年。韩国人和日本人同处一室的时候，会超级不自在。
Now, put Japanese, Korean, and Chinese people in the same room.
（回）现在，让日本人、韩国人和中国人同处一室。
（回）现在，让日本人、韩国人和中国人同处一室。
It’s mostly Japanese people that make it weird. Koreans and Chinese are chill.
（回）把气氛搞得很奇怪的大都是日本人。韩国人和中国人很冷静。
（回）把气氛搞得很奇怪的大都是日本人。韩国人和中国人很冷静。
Vietnamese people would grab popcorn and sit quietly in the corner watching the drama (but secretly wish the Chinese would lose the fight).
（回）而越南人会安安静静地坐在角落里，一边吃爆米花一边看这出戏（但会暗暗希望中国人在这场争斗中输掉）
（回）而越南人会安安静静地坐在角落里，一边吃爆米花一边看这出戏（但会暗暗希望中国人在这场争斗中输掉）
casanino
Most American Italians are huge racists as well.
大部分意大利裔美国人也是非常恶劣的种族主义者。
Most American Italians are huge racists as well.
大部分意大利裔美国人也是非常恶劣的种族主义者。
Priamosish
French? They're all short, dark and dirty. -Germany
As a native German speaker I've never heard of this. Nobody thinks of south Europeans as dirty. Shorter and more tan? Yes, because it's true.
（卢森堡）德国：法国人？他们都又矮又黑，还脏兮兮的。
作为一个以德语为母语的人，我从来没有听到过这种话。没人会觉得南欧人脏。但要是说到更矮小、更棕黑？是的，因为这就是事实。
French? They're all short, dark and dirty. -Germany
As a native German speaker I've never heard of this. Nobody thinks of south Europeans as dirty. Shorter and more tan? Yes, because it's true.
（卢森堡）德国：法国人？他们都又矮又黑，还脏兮兮的。
作为一个以德语为母语的人，我从来没有听到过这种话。没人会觉得南欧人脏。但要是说到更矮小、更棕黑？是的，因为这就是事实。
Wam_2020
If my middle eastern husband is considered white to the US government; Italians are white.
（俄勒冈）如果在美国政府的眼中，我那来自中东的丈夫属于白人，那意大利人也是白人。
If my middle eastern husband is considered white to the US government; Italians are white.
（俄勒冈）如果在美国政府的眼中，我那来自中东的丈夫属于白人，那意大利人也是白人。
This made me cackle. Every middle eastern person I know can’t stop ranting about how they deserve their own ID box (which they most definitely do). The disdain when I joke that they’re white is just incredible.
（回）你这话把我笑惨了。我认识的中东人全都在不停地抱怨说，早该在身份证上给他们这个种族单分一类了（这完全是他们理应得到的）。当我调笑说他们是白人，他们表现出的轻蔑简直让人难以置信。
（回）你这话把我笑惨了。我认识的中东人全都在不停地抱怨说，早该在身份证上给他们这个种族单分一类了（这完全是他们理应得到的）。当我调笑说他们是白人，他们表现出的轻蔑简直让人难以置信。
I find culture goes into it. Most Christian Lebanese consider themselves white but most Muslim Arabs don’t. The strangest one is Armenians who usually don’t consider themselves white except that nearly all Americans would perceive them as white.
（回）我发现这其中有文化因素。大多数信仰基督教的黎巴嫩人会自认为是白人，但大多数阿拉伯穆斯林却不会这么认为。最奇怪的要数亚美尼亚人，他们通常不会把自己看成白人，但几乎所有美国人都会把他们看成白人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
（回）我发现这其中有文化因素。大多数信仰基督教的黎巴嫩人会自认为是白人，但大多数阿拉伯穆斯林却不会这么认为。最奇怪的要数亚美尼亚人，他们通常不会把自己看成白人，但几乎所有美国人都会把他们看成白人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Hi, armenian-American here! I think a big part of that is tanning and hair texture. Most of my cousins are pretty much brown, and those of us that have white skin tan really well and can get pretty dark in the summer.
A lot of us have curly hair (my mom has like 3a/3b hair) and while wavy hair is pretty standard white we definitely have different texture.
Most of my family (sample size of about 50 or so extended cousins with different mixes) is white passing and would not be looked at twice, then you have my brother who gets stopped every time by airport security if he has a mustache/beard and isn't in his army gear
（回）你好，我就是亚美尼亚裔美国人！我认为有很大一部分原因在于晒黑的皮肤，以及发质。我大部分表亲的肤色都是近乎棕色的，而我们中间那些皮肤很白的人都会把自己晒得很到位，在夏天时可以让自己变得很黝黑。
我们中有很多人都是卷发（我妈头发的卷度大约在3a/3b），但是，鬈曲的头发是相当标准的白人（特征），但我们的发质绝对和他们不一样。
我这个家族中的大部分人（样本量为50人上下的堂/表兄弟姐妹，其中存在各种不同的混血儿）都是白人，不会让人生疑的那种，而我那表兄，如果他蓄须了且不着军装，就每次都会被机场安检拦下。
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A lot of us have curly hair (my mom has like 3a/3b hair) and while wavy hair is pretty standard white we definitely have different texture.
Most of my family (sample size of about 50 or so extended cousins with different mixes) is white passing and would not be looked at twice, then you have my brother who gets stopped every time by airport security if he has a mustache/beard and isn't in his army gear
（回）你好，我就是亚美尼亚裔美国人！我认为有很大一部分原因在于晒黑的皮肤，以及发质。我大部分表亲的肤色都是近乎棕色的，而我们中间那些皮肤很白的人都会把自己晒得很到位，在夏天时可以让自己变得很黝黑。
我们中有很多人都是卷发（我妈头发的卷度大约在3a/3b），但是，鬈曲的头发是相当标准的白人（特征），但我们的发质绝对和他们不一样。
我这个家族中的大部分人（样本量为50人上下的堂/表兄弟姐妹，其中存在各种不同的混血儿）都是白人，不会让人生疑的那种，而我那表兄，如果他蓄须了且不着军装，就每次都会被机场安检拦下。
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The way I see it, if 9/11 wasn’t described as something done by a bunch of “white terrorists” then we’re not really viewed as white and shouldn’t be referred to as such.
There are plenty of black and latino people with very light skin. Doesn’t mean they’re categorizing them as white.
（回）在我看来，如果世人没有把9/11事件描述成一群“白人恐怖分子”的行径，那其实我们就没有被看成白人，也不应该被这样称呼。
有相当数量的黑人和拉美人肤色都很浅。但这并不意味着他们被归入了白人。
There are plenty of black and latino people with very light skin. Doesn’t mean they’re categorizing them as white.
（回）在我看来，如果世人没有把9/11事件描述成一群“白人恐怖分子”的行径，那其实我们就没有被看成白人，也不应该被这样称呼。
有相当数量的黑人和拉美人肤色都很浅。但这并不意味着他们被归入了白人。
azuth89
Generally, yeah.
There was a time when that wasn't the case, but Irish people also weren't properly "white" for a while there, either.
It's a purely social construct, don't look for much in the way of logic in it.
（德州）一般而言，是的。
曾经有一段时期并不是这样的，但爱尔兰人也在某段时期中不被人看成正经的“白人”。
这纯粹就是一种社会建构，别指望在其中找到太多逻辑。
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Generally, yeah.
There was a time when that wasn't the case, but Irish people also weren't properly "white" for a while there, either.
It's a purely social construct, don't look for much in the way of logic in it.
（德州）一般而言，是的。
曾经有一段时期并不是这样的，但爱尔兰人也在某段时期中不被人看成正经的“白人”。
这纯粹就是一种社会建构，别指望在其中找到太多逻辑。
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I think religion (Catholicism) had something to do with that.
（回，乔治亚州）我觉得宗教（天主教）与此有关。
（回，乔治亚州）我觉得宗教（天主教）与此有关。
Religion and the ability to speak English.
（回）宗教，以及说英语的能力。
（回）宗教，以及说英语的能力。
Don't forget the economics of class. Large immigrant communities are usually a primary source of cheap labor, which is good for the rich, not so much for everyone else. The lower classes then fight over the scraps, and find someone to vilify. It's easier to "other" an immigrant community than recognize you're a cog in a complicated system of exploitation. When the "othered" community doesn't share your religion or language, the dehumanization becomes even easier. Not to mention, you can actively abuse the immigrant, you can't do anything to the rich without immediate and painful consequences.
In the United States, we fundamentally have a class problem in which we have seamless woven racism.
（回）不要忘了各阶级的经济属性。大型移民群体通常都是廉价劳动力的主要来源，这对富人来说是好事，而对其他所有人来说就不尽然了。然后下层阶级就会为这些残羹剩饭而厮打，并找到可以诽谤的对象。将一个移民群体“孤立出去并欺凌之”，要比承认自己是一个复杂剥削系统中的一个齿轮容易。当这个“被他者化”的社群的宗教或语言都不同于你时，不把对方当人看就变得更容易了。更不用说你可以很主动地去谩骂移民，但你对富人做了些什么却不产生直接且痛苦的后果，却是不可能的。
美国存在的阶级问题是根深蒂固的，其中还存在被编造得天衣无缝的种族主义。
In the United States, we fundamentally have a class problem in which we have seamless woven racism.
（回）不要忘了各阶级的经济属性。大型移民群体通常都是廉价劳动力的主要来源，这对富人来说是好事，而对其他所有人来说就不尽然了。然后下层阶级就会为这些残羹剩饭而厮打，并找到可以诽谤的对象。将一个移民群体“孤立出去并欺凌之”，要比承认自己是一个复杂剥削系统中的一个齿轮容易。当这个“被他者化”的社群的宗教或语言都不同于你时，不把对方当人看就变得更容易了。更不用说你可以很主动地去谩骂移民，但你对富人做了些什么却不产生直接且痛苦的后果，却是不可能的。
美国存在的阶级问题是根深蒂固的，其中还存在被编造得天衣无缝的种族主义。
Mostly because that was pushed by the Klan.
（回）主要原因是3K党在推动这些。
（回）主要原因是3K党在推动这些。
lemystereduchipot
I think most Italians in the US are also of southern Italian heritage and they were stereotyped as being "swarthy" (which is now how Arabs/South Asians are stereotyped by some racists)
我认为，在美国的大部分意大利裔同时拥有意大利南部血统，对他们的刻板印象就是“黝黑”（现在，有些种族主义者对阿拉伯人/南亚人的刻板印象也是如此）。
I think most Italians in the US are also of southern Italian heritage and they were stereotyped as being "swarthy" (which is now how Arabs/South Asians are stereotyped by some racists)
我认为，在美国的大部分意大利裔同时拥有意大利南部血统，对他们的刻板印象就是“黝黑”（现在，有些种族主义者对阿拉伯人/南亚人的刻板印象也是如此）。
mdp300
A lot of it was simply hating on the new guys. Back when most (white) people had English, Dutch or German ancestry, these Italians and Irish with their funny accents and different customs and catholicism were weirdos.
200 years later it's the same, the new guys are just from a different place.
（新泽西）其中有很大一部分原因纯粹是憎恨新来者。当时的大部分白人都有英国、荷兰或德国血统，而这些带着滑稽的口音、不同的风俗以及天主教义而来的意大利人和爱尔兰人成了怪人。
在二百年后的今天也还是如此，无非是这些新来者的母国换了一个地方而已。
A lot of it was simply hating on the new guys. Back when most (white) people had English, Dutch or German ancestry, these Italians and Irish with their funny accents and different customs and catholicism were weirdos.
200 years later it's the same, the new guys are just from a different place.
（新泽西）其中有很大一部分原因纯粹是憎恨新来者。当时的大部分白人都有英国、荷兰或德国血统，而这些带着滑稽的口音、不同的风俗以及天主教义而来的意大利人和爱尔兰人成了怪人。
在二百年后的今天也还是如此，无非是这些新来者的母国换了一个地方而已。
stefiscool
I would. Though what other commenters have said is true, only about 50 or so years ago did Slavs get considered to be white, and all my Polish ass has to do to get sunburned is look at a photo of a beach!
（新泽西）我会的。虽然其他评论者所言是属实的，斯拉夫人被看成白人也仅仅是约50年前的事情，而我那波兰牌的大白腚只须看一眼海滩的照片就会被晒伤。
I would. Though what other commenters have said is true, only about 50 or so years ago did Slavs get considered to be white, and all my Polish ass has to do to get sunburned is look at a photo of a beach!
（新泽西）我会的。虽然其他评论者所言是属实的，斯拉夫人被看成白人也仅仅是约50年前的事情，而我那波兰牌的大白腚只须看一眼海滩的照片就会被晒伤。
ccurrtis189
You guys are Mediterranean, it’s like being white except that you don’t look like a lobster after being out in the sun too long.
（佛罗里达）你们这些家伙属于地中海人，就是那种，也算是白人吧，但你们在阳光下待了太久以后并不会红得像只龙虾。
You guys are Mediterranean, it’s like being white except that you don’t look like a lobster after being out in the sun too long.
（佛罗里达）你们这些家伙属于地中海人，就是那种，也算是白人吧，但你们在阳光下待了太久以后并不会红得像只龙虾。
NotSoStallionItalian
I'm a naturally tan Italian-American(American for non US redditors) of entirely Sicilian descent. My dna test says I'm at least a fourth north african and middle eastern descent. I still consider myself white.
我是一个肤色天然黑的意大利裔美国人（对非美国人的红迪网友来说我就是美国人），是纯的西西里人血统。我的DNA检测结果说，我至少有四分之一的北非和中东血统。但我仍然认为自己是白人。
I'm a naturally tan Italian-American(American for non US redditors) of entirely Sicilian descent. My dna test says I'm at least a fourth north african and middle eastern descent. I still consider myself white.
我是一个肤色天然黑的意大利裔美国人（对非美国人的红迪网友来说我就是美国人），是纯的西西里人血统。我的DNA检测结果说，我至少有四分之一的北非和中东血统。但我仍然认为自己是白人。
Squooshyfood
They're white but I wouldn't bat an eye if they were darker, Mediterranean type complexion. I've actually met a few people that are genuinely "bronze" - even in the dead of winter they look like a tanned guys.
他们是白人，但如果他们的肤色较深，就那种地中海类型的肤色，我也不会惊讶的。事实上，我遇到过几个真正的“古铜色”的人，即使在严冬，他们看起来也像是晒黑了的人。
They're white but I wouldn't bat an eye if they were darker, Mediterranean type complexion. I've actually met a few people that are genuinely "bronze" - even in the dead of winter they look like a tanned guys.
他们是白人，但如果他们的肤色较深，就那种地中海类型的肤色，我也不会惊讶的。事实上，我遇到过几个真正的“古铜色”的人，即使在严冬，他们看起来也像是晒黑了的人。
Practical-Ordinary-6
The standard that was measured against was not white. It was WASP - white, Anglo-Saxon protestant.
Italians and Irish failed that last part. And, I guess, the second-to-last part, too, although that was more flexible.
The whole thing never really had any relevance outside the U.S.
这里的衡量标准并不是白色。而是WASP，即是白人，而且是种族为盎格鲁-撒克逊的新教徒。
意大利人和爱尔兰人不符合最后那部分。而且，我猜倒数第二部分也不符合，尽管盎撒这个民族概念没有那么严格。
这整件事在美国以外的国家，根本就不算事儿。
The standard that was measured against was not white. It was WASP - white, Anglo-Saxon protestant.
Italians and Irish failed that last part. And, I guess, the second-to-last part, too, although that was more flexible.
The whole thing never really had any relevance outside the U.S.
这里的衡量标准并不是白色。而是WASP，即是白人，而且是种族为盎格鲁-撒克逊的新教徒。
意大利人和爱尔兰人不符合最后那部分。而且，我猜倒数第二部分也不符合，尽管盎撒这个民族概念没有那么严格。
这整件事在美国以外的国家，根本就不算事儿。
docescape
I consider Italians “Spicy White”.
（旧金山）在我眼中，意大利人是“加过料的白人”。
I consider Italians “Spicy White”.
（旧金山）在我眼中，意大利人是“加过料的白人”。
GBabeuf
When my grandma was a girl growing up in rural Colorado in the 40's, she was often made fun of and ostracized for being Italian and therefore not "white." It was something she was ashamed of for a long time and wouldn't admit.
However, that was a long time ago. Today, Italians are universally considered white.
四十年代时，我祖母是一个在科罗拉多州的乡村长大的女孩，她经常因为自己是意大利人而被取笑和排斥，因此不算是“白人”。这是她长久以来为之羞耻的事情，她也不愿意承认。
然而，那是很久以前的事了。如今，普遍都会把意大利人看成白人。
When my grandma was a girl growing up in rural Colorado in the 40's, she was often made fun of and ostracized for being Italian and therefore not "white." It was something she was ashamed of for a long time and wouldn't admit.
However, that was a long time ago. Today, Italians are universally considered white.
四十年代时，我祖母是一个在科罗拉多州的乡村长大的女孩，她经常因为自己是意大利人而被取笑和排斥，因此不算是“白人”。这是她长久以来为之羞耻的事情，她也不愿意承认。
然而，那是很久以前的事了。如今，普遍都会把意大利人看成白人。
JavertHadAPoint
Depends on who you ask. Most sane people would say yes, of course.
My fiancée’s grandmother, on the other hand…
She was apparently concerned that I, as an American of Italian descent, was only interested in marrying her granddaughter so I could “sneak into a white family”.
（纽约）答案因人而异。大多数心智正常的人当然会说是。
而另一方面，我未婚妻的祖母就…
显然很让她担心的是：我作为一个意大利裔美国人，娶她孙女图的就是可以由此“混进一个白人家庭”。
Depends on who you ask. Most sane people would say yes, of course.
My fiancée’s grandmother, on the other hand…
She was apparently concerned that I, as an American of Italian descent, was only interested in marrying her granddaughter so I could “sneak into a white family”.
（纽约）答案因人而异。大多数心智正常的人当然会说是。
而另一方面，我未婚妻的祖母就…
显然很让她担心的是：我作为一个意大利裔美国人，娶她孙女图的就是可以由此“混进一个白人家庭”。
EverGreatestxX
Yes, Italians have been considered "white enough" for almost a century now
是的，人们认为意大利人“足够白”，到今天差不多已经一个世纪了。
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Yes, Italians have been considered "white enough" for almost a century now
是的，人们认为意大利人“足够白”，到今天差不多已经一个世纪了。
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Snoo33903
Italians are 50% marinara and 50% wine. So all around a good time regardless of color.
意大利人是50%的蒜香番茄酱加上50%的葡萄酒。所以无论是什么肤色，总能享受美好时光。
simberry2
Yeah. There was a time when the Italians and the Irish weren’t white, but that time has long passed
是的。曾几何时，意大利人和爱尔兰人都不算是白人，但那个时代早就过去了。
Yeah. There was a time when the Italians and the Irish weren’t white, but that time has long passed
是的。曾几何时，意大利人和爱尔兰人都不算是白人，但那个时代早就过去了。
CrepuscularCrone
In my experience I've found that there's a real difference between people from Northern Italy and Sicilians, both in material culture and behavior and looks. The people who are most identifiable as Italian in America are Sicilian.
As a genealogist I know that everyone is related and a word like "white" is meaningless.
以我个人的经验，我发现意大利北部的人和西西里人之间的差异是真实存在的，在物质文化、行为和长相方面都是如此。在美国，最容易被认作意大利人的就是西西里人。
作为一个系谱学者，我知道所有人之间都是有亲缘关系的，像“白人”这种字眼是没有意义的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
In my experience I've found that there's a real difference between people from Northern Italy and Sicilians, both in material culture and behavior and looks. The people who are most identifiable as Italian in America are Sicilian.
As a genealogist I know that everyone is related and a word like "white" is meaningless.
以我个人的经验，我发现意大利北部的人和西西里人之间的差异是真实存在的，在物质文化、行为和长相方面都是如此。在美国，最容易被认作意大利人的就是西西里人。
作为一个系谱学者，我知道所有人之间都是有亲缘关系的，像“白人”这种字眼是没有意义的。
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808hammerhead
Italian here..no. I’m Italian (specifically Sicilian). To me whiteness is a cultural thing, and ours is different. I’ve felt this way since grade school, I always marked “other” on CTBS tests. To me white people are northern and eastern Europeans. I’m not trying to say we’re an oppressed minority, we’re just a different culture than Northern Europeans.
我是意大利人....我不觉得自己是白人。我是意大利人（确切说是西西里人）。对我来说，白人是文化意义上的，而我们的文化是不同的。我从小学起就有这种感觉了，在CTBS基因测试中，我总会把自己标注为“其他”。在我看来，白人就是北欧人和东欧人。我的意思并不是说我们是受压迫的少数族群，只是在文化上，我们真的不同于北欧人。
Bangkok_Dangeresque
That's because "White" is not a skin tone, it's a social class/construct. It has never actually been about color or physical characteristics.
这是因为“白”不是一种肤色，而是一种社会阶级/社会架构。事实上，它从来都和肤色或体貌特征无关。
That's because "White" is not a skin tone, it's a social class/construct. It has never actually been about color or physical characteristics.
这是因为“白”不是一种肤色，而是一种社会阶级/社会架构。事实上，它从来都和肤色或体貌特征无关。
wherehaveubeen
Yes, although some people like to cite the treatment of Italians 150 years ago to justify their current abhorrent views
是的，虽然有些人很喜欢引用150年前意大利人的遭遇，来佐证自己当下的那些可憎的观点。
Yes, although some people like to cite the treatment of Italians 150 years ago to justify their current abhorrent views
是的，虽然有些人很喜欢引用150年前意大利人的遭遇，来佐证自己当下的那些可憎的观点。
RavenNorCal
In Italy percent whites definitely more than In the US, whites here are going to be a minority.
（加州）在意大利，白人的比例绝对高于美国，在我们美国，白人将会成为少数族群。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
In Italy percent whites definitely more than In the US, whites here are going to be a minority.
（加州）在意大利，白人的比例绝对高于美国，在我们美国，白人将会成为少数族群。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
AshkenazRex
No. They’re Jews with better food.
不是白人。他们只是更会做饭的犹太人而已。
No. They’re Jews with better food.
不是白人。他们只是更会做饭的犹太人而已。
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