网友讨论:中国人学日语容易,还是日本人学汉语容易?
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And we share a lot of similarities in writing, I don't know whether it would be considered as great. Any Japanese could give me comments?
However, the grammar in Japanese is so so so complicated, I always doubt about that why they make so much trouble for themselves, and it's really killing me. I have to spend a lot of time to remember numberous visions of one verb word.
I am planning to find a job but not concerned with Japanese, so I wonder if I should stick to it. (I love Japanese songs and anime. )
我们在书写方面也有很多相似之处,我不知道这是否会被认为是伟大的。有日本人能给我点建议吗?
然而,日语的语法是如此如此地复杂,我总是怀疑为什么他们要给自己制造这么多的麻烦,这真的让我很难过。我必须花很多时间来记住一个动词单词的无数用法。
我打算找一份与日语无关的工作,所以我在考虑我是否应该坚持下去。(我喜欢日本歌曲和动漫。)
Mayumi Suzuki, lives in Tokyo
I have yet to try my hand at studying Chinese, but one thing I can say for certain is: whilst I doubt that Japanese is part of the standard school curriculum in China, Chinese (or at least, ancient Chinese literature) is a must for Japanese students starting from middle school.
This doesn’t mean that we learn to speak the language. However, we study the works of the great poets such as Du Fu and Li Bai, together with a system of annotating the original text to change the word order and add postpositional particles and auxiliary verbs so that the sentences make sense in Japanese. Naturally, we use the Japanese readings of the relevant kanji, so we ignore pronunciation completely, although helpful teachers will explain how certain stanzas would have rhymed in the original Chinese. In high school, we move onto excerpts from Confucius, Lao Tzu and other philosophers. Entrance exams for top-ranked universities might have a paragraph of unmarked original text for the student to annotate before answering questions about its content.
我还没试过学中文,但有一件事我可以肯定: 虽然我不知道日语是不是中国学校标准课程的一部分,但中文(至少是中国古代文学)是日本学生从中学开始的必修课。
这并不意味着我们都要学习说这种语言。然而,我们在研究杜甫、李白等伟大诗人的作品时,同时还研究了一套修改词序、添加后置小解和助动词的文本注释系统,以使这些句子在日语中更能被理解通透。当然,我们在日语中使用相关的汉字,但我们完全忽略了其原本的发音,尽管有热心的老师会解释某些诗节是如何押韵的。在高中,我们学习孔子、老子和其他哲学家的著作选段。日本顶尖大学的入学考试中可能会有一段没有标点符号的原始文本,让学生在回答有关内容的问题之前对其进行注释。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I have yet to try my hand at studying Chinese, but one thing I can say for certain is: whilst I doubt that Japanese is part of the standard school curriculum in China, Chinese (or at least, ancient Chinese literature) is a must for Japanese students starting from middle school.
This doesn’t mean that we learn to speak the language. However, we study the works of the great poets such as Du Fu and Li Bai, together with a system of annotating the original text to change the word order and add postpositional particles and auxiliary verbs so that the sentences make sense in Japanese. Naturally, we use the Japanese readings of the relevant kanji, so we ignore pronunciation completely, although helpful teachers will explain how certain stanzas would have rhymed in the original Chinese. In high school, we move onto excerpts from Confucius, Lao Tzu and other philosophers. Entrance exams for top-ranked universities might have a paragraph of unmarked original text for the student to annotate before answering questions about its content.
我还没试过学中文,但有一件事我可以肯定: 虽然我不知道日语是不是中国学校标准课程的一部分,但中文(至少是中国古代文学)是日本学生从中学开始的必修课。
这并不意味着我们都要学习说这种语言。然而,我们在研究杜甫、李白等伟大诗人的作品时,同时还研究了一套修改词序、添加后置小解和助动词的文本注释系统,以使这些句子在日语中更能被理解通透。当然,我们在日语中使用相关的汉字,但我们完全忽略了其原本的发音,尽管有热心的老师会解释某些诗节是如何押韵的。在高中,我们学习孔子、老子和其他哲学家的著作选段。日本顶尖大学的入学考试中可能会有一段没有标点符号的原始文本,让学生在回答有关内容的问题之前对其进行注释。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
So, theoretically, if you were really good at this, it would mean that by the time you entered university, you would have a decent understanding of sentence structure and word order in Chinese in addition to knowing a lot of the characters that are used.
In fact, a friend at university who had loved studying the works of Chinese philosophers as a high school student said that the intensive Chinese course (rumored to be one of the most difficult language choices available) was a breeze for him, except for the pronunciation!
所以,从理论上讲,如果你在这方面做得很好,那就意味着当你进入大学的时候,你会对汉语的句子结构和词序有一个很好的理解,而且还会用到很多汉字。
事实上,我的一个在大学时喜欢研究中国哲学家著作的高中同学说,精研中文课程(据说是最难的语言课程选项之一)对他来说是小意思,除了发音!
In fact, a friend at university who had loved studying the works of Chinese philosophers as a high school student said that the intensive Chinese course (rumored to be one of the most difficult language choices available) was a breeze for him, except for the pronunciation!
所以,从理论上讲,如果你在这方面做得很好,那就意味着当你进入大学的时候,你会对汉语的句子结构和词序有一个很好的理解,而且还会用到很多汉字。
事实上,我的一个在大学时喜欢研究中国哲学家著作的高中同学说,精研中文课程(据说是最难的语言课程选项之一)对他来说是小意思,除了发音!
Chandler Bing, knows Japanese
A good question.
As a Chinese who has learned Japanese for about one year, I would say it's not easy to study Japanese at all.
To be honest, I thought it would be easier for a Chinese to learn Japanese because they use many Kanji. And at the beginning, it seems really easy because the pronunciation is easy to get.
一个很好的问题。
作为一个已经学了一年日语的中国人,我想说学习日语一点都不容易。
说实话,我认为中国人学习日语会更容易一些,因为他们的语言中用了很多汉字。一开始,它看起来很简单,因为日语的发音很容易掌握。
A good question.
As a Chinese who has learned Japanese for about one year, I would say it's not easy to study Japanese at all.
To be honest, I thought it would be easier for a Chinese to learn Japanese because they use many Kanji. And at the beginning, it seems really easy because the pronunciation is easy to get.
一个很好的问题。
作为一个已经学了一年日语的中国人,我想说学习日语一点都不容易。
说实话,我认为中国人学习日语会更容易一些,因为他们的语言中用了很多汉字。一开始,它看起来很简单,因为日语的发音很容易掌握。
And we share a lot of similarities in writing, I don't know whether it would be considered as great. Any Japanese could give me comments?
However, the grammar in Japanese is so so so complicated, I always doubt about that why they make so much trouble for themselves, and it's really killing me. I have to spend a lot of time to remember numberous visions of one verb word.
I am planning to find a job but not concerned with Japanese, so I wonder if I should stick to it. (I love Japanese songs and anime. )
我们在书写方面也有很多相似之处,我不知道这是否会被认为是伟大的。有日本人能给我点建议吗?
然而,日语的语法是如此如此地复杂,我总是怀疑为什么他们要给自己制造这么多的麻烦,这真的让我很难过。我必须花很多时间来记住一个动词单词的无数用法。
我打算找一份与日语无关的工作,所以我在考虑我是否应该坚持下去。(我喜欢日本歌曲和动漫。)
Ikebe Sadao, lives in Japan
I'm going to answer this very classic question because I've noticed one factor recently - I am certain that it is ten times easier for Japanese to learn Mandarin Chinese than the opposite.
As long as they are human speaking languages, they should ultimately be of the same level of difficulty. But the two languages are ten times different in their learning opportunities because the number of Chinese speakers is roughly 10 times greater than the number of Japanese speakers.
Here is the proof - I, as an ugly 40 year old man, feel it's really easy to find a Chinese speaker to talk to, on a language exchange app. Most of the time, as soon as I launch the app, I always find some young college girls who are desperate to practice Japanese. They don't mind if the partner is an old man lol. Unfortunately, many Chinese speakers claim that it's not that easy to find a Japanese speaker to talk to.
With this overwhelming difference in learning opportunities, I'm sure it's easier for Japanese to learn Mandarin Chinese.
我将回答这个非常经典的问题,因为我最近注意到一个现象——我确信日本人学习汉语要比中国人学习日语容易十倍。
只要它们是人类的语言,它们最终应该具有相同的难度水平。但这两种语言被学习的机会相差十倍,因为说汉语的人数大约是说日语的人数的十倍。
这是证明——我,作为一个饱经沧桑的40岁男人,感觉真的很容易在语言交流应用上找到一个会中文的人一起交流。大多数时候,当我启动应用程序, 我总是会发现一些年轻的大学女生在找人练习日语。她们不介意练习对象是一个老人,哈哈。不幸的是,许多练习中文的人声称要找一个会说日语的人聊天并不容易。
由于学习机会的巨大差异,我相信日本人学习汉语普通话更容易。
I'm going to answer this very classic question because I've noticed one factor recently - I am certain that it is ten times easier for Japanese to learn Mandarin Chinese than the opposite.
As long as they are human speaking languages, they should ultimately be of the same level of difficulty. But the two languages are ten times different in their learning opportunities because the number of Chinese speakers is roughly 10 times greater than the number of Japanese speakers.
Here is the proof - I, as an ugly 40 year old man, feel it's really easy to find a Chinese speaker to talk to, on a language exchange app. Most of the time, as soon as I launch the app, I always find some young college girls who are desperate to practice Japanese. They don't mind if the partner is an old man lol. Unfortunately, many Chinese speakers claim that it's not that easy to find a Japanese speaker to talk to.
With this overwhelming difference in learning opportunities, I'm sure it's easier for Japanese to learn Mandarin Chinese.
我将回答这个非常经典的问题,因为我最近注意到一个现象——我确信日本人学习汉语要比中国人学习日语容易十倍。
只要它们是人类的语言,它们最终应该具有相同的难度水平。但这两种语言被学习的机会相差十倍,因为说汉语的人数大约是说日语的人数的十倍。
这是证明——我,作为一个饱经沧桑的40岁男人,感觉真的很容易在语言交流应用上找到一个会中文的人一起交流。大多数时候,当我启动应用程序, 我总是会发现一些年轻的大学女生在找人练习日语。她们不介意练习对象是一个老人,哈哈。不幸的是,许多练习中文的人声称要找一个会说日语的人聊天并不容易。
由于学习机会的巨大差异,我相信日本人学习汉语普通话更容易。
Lena Hudson
It's definitely easier for a Japanese person to study Chinese. Most Chinese characters (which Japanese already know) have only one pronunciation. There are no tricky conjugations and formal language like in Japanese to learn. Which is harder to learn, Chinese or Japanese? ... So for English speakers, Chinese is easier than Japanese from this aspect. Chinese grammar is generally considered a lot easier to learn than Japanese. Chinese is an isolating language, even more so than English, with no verb conjugations, noun cases or grammatical gender.
对日本人来说,学习汉语绝对更容易。大多数汉字(日本人认识的)只有一个发音。不需要学习像日语那样复杂的词形变化和正式的语言。中文和日文,哪一个更难学?... 所以对于说英语的人来说,汉语在这方面比日语容易。人们普遍认为汉语语法比日语容易学得多。汉语是一种孤立的语言,甚至比英语更孤立,它没有动词结合、名词多意或语法性别。
It's definitely easier for a Japanese person to study Chinese. Most Chinese characters (which Japanese already know) have only one pronunciation. There are no tricky conjugations and formal language like in Japanese to learn. Which is harder to learn, Chinese or Japanese? ... So for English speakers, Chinese is easier than Japanese from this aspect. Chinese grammar is generally considered a lot easier to learn than Japanese. Chinese is an isolating language, even more so than English, with no verb conjugations, noun cases or grammatical gender.
对日本人来说,学习汉语绝对更容易。大多数汉字(日本人认识的)只有一个发音。不需要学习像日语那样复杂的词形变化和正式的语言。中文和日文,哪一个更难学?... 所以对于说英语的人来说,汉语在这方面比日语容易。人们普遍认为汉语语法比日语容易学得多。汉语是一种孤立的语言,甚至比英语更孤立,它没有动词结合、名词多意或语法性别。
Elliott Chen, Speak Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese, and a bit German and Sichuanese
It’s definitely easier for a Japanese person to study Chinese.
Most Chinese characters (which Japanese already know) have only one pronunciation. There are no tricky conjugations and formal language like in Japanese to learn.
Anecdote: I once went to a Chinese speaking meetup in Tokyo to practice my Mandarin (I speak pretty good Mandarin). 80% of the Japanese at my table were just as good as me (except for their pronunciation). They thought Chinese was much easier for them to learn than English.
对日本人来说,学习汉语绝对更容易。
大多数汉字(日本人认识的)只有一个发音。不需要学习像日语那样复杂的词形变化和正式的语言。
轶事: 我曾经在东京参加了一个中文交流聚会来练习我的普通话(我的普通话说得很好)。和我同桌的80%的日本人都和我一样好(除了他们的发音)。他们认为汉语比英语容易学得多。
It’s definitely easier for a Japanese person to study Chinese.
Most Chinese characters (which Japanese already know) have only one pronunciation. There are no tricky conjugations and formal language like in Japanese to learn.
Anecdote: I once went to a Chinese speaking meetup in Tokyo to practice my Mandarin (I speak pretty good Mandarin). 80% of the Japanese at my table were just as good as me (except for their pronunciation). They thought Chinese was much easier for them to learn than English.
对日本人来说,学习汉语绝对更容易。
大多数汉字(日本人认识的)只有一个发音。不需要学习像日语那样复杂的词形变化和正式的语言。
轶事: 我曾经在东京参加了一个中文交流聚会来练习我的普通话(我的普通话说得很好)。和我同桌的80%的日本人都和我一样好(除了他们的发音)。他们认为汉语比英语容易学得多。
Nell Zhang, Chinese native, Japanese learner, English learner, everything learner
Once I, as a guest, attended a ‘dousoukai’ (a schoolmate gathering) of my Japanese coworkers who have learned Chinese at Beijing Language and Culture University. (My company has this language training program to support employees to learn foreign languages overseas for future use.)
They recalled the nostalgic campus days. One coworker said:
‘I couldn’t believe for the first time in my life, I became the goodie-goodie at language learning in my class!’
‘Me too!’ ‘Indeed!’ Other coworkers echoed.
有一次,我作为客人参加了我在北京语言大学学过中文的日本同事的“同学会”。(我公司有这个语言培训项目,以支持员工在海外学习外语以备将来使用。)
他们回忆起了令人怀念的校园生活。一个同事说:
“我简直不敢相信,我有生以来第一次成为了班里的语言学习高手!””
“我也是!”“确实! ”其他同事也附和着。
Once I, as a guest, attended a ‘dousoukai’ (a schoolmate gathering) of my Japanese coworkers who have learned Chinese at Beijing Language and Culture University. (My company has this language training program to support employees to learn foreign languages overseas for future use.)
They recalled the nostalgic campus days. One coworker said:
‘I couldn’t believe for the first time in my life, I became the goodie-goodie at language learning in my class!’
‘Me too!’ ‘Indeed!’ Other coworkers echoed.
有一次,我作为客人参加了我在北京语言大学学过中文的日本同事的“同学会”。(我公司有这个语言培训项目,以支持员工在海外学习外语以备将来使用。)
他们回忆起了令人怀念的校园生活。一个同事说:
“我简直不敢相信,我有生以来第一次成为了班里的语言学习高手!””
“我也是!”“确实! ”其他同事也附和着。
Turned out they had thought foreign language learning would be super difficult, (they had such predictions because of the experience on English learning- ‘A pain in the ass’). But when they started to learn Chinese, the Chinese characters in common made them all score super well comparing to most of their classmates who were ‘oubeijin’ (Europeans and Americans).
However, my ‘goodie-goodie’ coworker also said that good scores in reading/writing was one thing, suffering from ‘sisheng’ (Chinese four tones) was another. Let alone the super foreign pronunciations of ‘sh’ ‘r’ ‘zh’ ‘ch’. Seems so many pains in the ass they made hemorrhoids…
Actually, they told me that for beginners, the No. 1 hard-to-say but have-to-say-constantly word was ‘Japanese’ itself.
原本他们认为外语学习是非常困难的(他们有这样的预测是因为英语学习的经验——“讨厌鬼”)。但当他们开始学习中文时,共同使用的汉字让他们都比大多数“欧北京”(在北京生活的欧美人)的同学得分高得多。
然而,我那位“成绩优异”的同事也说书写成绩好是一回事,“四声”的发音语调学习是另一回事。更不用说“sh”、“r”、“zh”、“ch”这些超级外来音了。这让他们看起来屁股上有那么多的疼痛,他们都长痔疮了…
事实上,他们告诉我,对于初学者来说,最难说但必须经常说的单词是“日本人”这个词。
我是日本人 (I’m Japanese.)
However, my ‘goodie-goodie’ coworker also said that good scores in reading/writing was one thing, suffering from ‘sisheng’ (Chinese four tones) was another. Let alone the super foreign pronunciations of ‘sh’ ‘r’ ‘zh’ ‘ch’. Seems so many pains in the ass they made hemorrhoids…
Actually, they told me that for beginners, the No. 1 hard-to-say but have-to-say-constantly word was ‘Japanese’ itself.
原本他们认为外语学习是非常困难的(他们有这样的预测是因为英语学习的经验——“讨厌鬼”)。但当他们开始学习中文时,共同使用的汉字让他们都比大多数“欧北京”(在北京生活的欧美人)的同学得分高得多。
然而,我那位“成绩优异”的同事也说书写成绩好是一回事,“四声”的发音语调学习是另一回事。更不用说“sh”、“r”、“zh”、“ch”这些超级外来音了。这让他们看起来屁股上有那么多的疼痛,他们都长痔疮了…
事实上,他们告诉我,对于初学者来说,最难说但必须经常说的单词是“日本人”这个词。
我是日本人 (I’m Japanese.)
It's pronounced ‘wo shi ri ben ren’ in Chinese mandarin.
But because of the no-difference ‘r’ and ‘l’ sounds in Japanese, ri ben ren (Japanese) which they try hard to say would sound like ‘li-ben-len’ in Chinese ears. And the pronunciation of the verb ‘shi’ (be) makes the whole thing even harder. Along with the wrong usage of four tones, self-introduction becomes such a nightmare.
(As an evil person, sometimes I enjoy teaching (read ‘prank’) my Japanese language exchange partner who is learning Mandarin to read a Chinese tongue twister:
四是四,十是十,十四是十四,四十是四十 (four is four, ten is ten, fourteen is fourteen, forty is forty.)
我是日本人。
在中国普通话中,它的发音是“wo shi ri ben ren”。
但是因为“r”和“l”在日语中的发音没有区别,所以日语里的“ri ben ren”(日语)在中国人的耳朵里听起来就像“li-ben-len”。而动词“shi”(be)的发音让整件事变得更加困难。再加上四调的错误使用,日本人的普通话自我介绍成了一场噩梦。
作为一个邪恶的人,有时我喜欢教(读作“恶作剧”)我的日语交换伙伴说中文绕口令,比如他正在学习的中文绕口令:
四是四, 十是十, 十四是十四, 四十是四十。
But because of the no-difference ‘r’ and ‘l’ sounds in Japanese, ri ben ren (Japanese) which they try hard to say would sound like ‘li-ben-len’ in Chinese ears. And the pronunciation of the verb ‘shi’ (be) makes the whole thing even harder. Along with the wrong usage of four tones, self-introduction becomes such a nightmare.
(As an evil person, sometimes I enjoy teaching (read ‘prank’) my Japanese language exchange partner who is learning Mandarin to read a Chinese tongue twister:
四是四,十是十,十四是十四,四十是四十 (four is four, ten is ten, fourteen is fourteen, forty is forty.)
我是日本人。
在中国普通话中,它的发音是“wo shi ri ben ren”。
但是因为“r”和“l”在日语中的发音没有区别,所以日语里的“ri ben ren”(日语)在中国人的耳朵里听起来就像“li-ben-len”。而动词“shi”(be)的发音让整件事变得更加困难。再加上四调的错误使用,日本人的普通话自我介绍成了一场噩梦。
作为一个邪恶的人,有时我喜欢教(读作“恶作剧”)我的日语交换伙伴说中文绕口令,比如他正在学习的中文绕口令:
四是四, 十是十, 十四是十四, 四十是四十。
It’s pronounced ‘si shi si, shi shi shi, shi si shi shi si, si shi shi si shi’. Then my partner would say it like ‘xixixixixixixixixixixixixi…’
Evil me. Sorry. )
But one of them who currently works in Shanghai branch found a genius solution of self-introduction:
To say ‘I’m Japanese’ in Shanghai dialect instead of mandarin putonghua!
Ala sapanin.
I have to admit, his Shanghai Chinese pronunciation is much better than mine. (I grew up in Beijing and Shanghai dialect is basically foreign to me.)
I also found when trying to mimic Shanghai dialect, my Japanese coworkers almost always do it perfectly, way better than Chinese coworkers from northern regions.
它的发音是“si shi si, shi shi shi, shi si shi shi si, si shi shi si shi。”然后我的日本小伙伴会读成“xixixixixixixixixixixixixixi…”
怪我,抱歉。)
但一位目前在上海分公司工作的员工发现了一个天才的自我介绍方法:
用上海话而不是普通话说“我是日本人”!
Ala sapanin.(上海话:我是日本人)
我不得不承认,他的上海话发音比我的好多了。(我在北京长大,上海话对我来说基本是陌生的。)
我还发现,当我试图模仿上海方言时,我的日本同事几乎总是做得更完美,比来自北方地区的中国同事要好得多。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Evil me. Sorry. )
But one of them who currently works in Shanghai branch found a genius solution of self-introduction:
To say ‘I’m Japanese’ in Shanghai dialect instead of mandarin putonghua!
Ala sapanin.
I have to admit, his Shanghai Chinese pronunciation is much better than mine. (I grew up in Beijing and Shanghai dialect is basically foreign to me.)
I also found when trying to mimic Shanghai dialect, my Japanese coworkers almost always do it perfectly, way better than Chinese coworkers from northern regions.
它的发音是“si shi si, shi shi shi, shi si shi shi si, si shi shi si shi。”然后我的日本小伙伴会读成“xixixixixixixixixixixixixixi…”
怪我,抱歉。)
但一位目前在上海分公司工作的员工发现了一个天才的自我介绍方法:
用上海话而不是普通话说“我是日本人”!
Ala sapanin.(上海话:我是日本人)
我不得不承认,他的上海话发音比我的好多了。(我在北京长大,上海话对我来说基本是陌生的。)
我还发现,当我试图模仿上海方言时,我的日本同事几乎总是做得更完美,比来自北方地区的中国同事要好得多。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I’m so curious if ‘standard’ mandarin was not based on Beijing dialect but on Shanghai dialect, would it be the easiest foreign language to learn for Japanese people?
All of my Japanese coworkers who work in China have high ability to read company documents written in Chinese, and write pretty good business mails in Chinese. On the other hand, all of them have a hard time on speaking or listening, even after long-years learning.
This tendency is seen on both sides.
Once my Japanese boss interviewed a Chinese lady who was applying a position in our company which required a certain level of Japanese language skills.
When he came back, he got SHOCKED and CONFUSED.
我很好奇,如果普通话的“标准”不是基于北京话,而是基于上海话,那它会是日本人最容易学的外语吗?
我所有在中国工作的日本同事都有阅读公司中文文件的能力,用中文写商务邮件也写得很好。另一方面,他们所有人在说或听方面面临困难,即使经过多年的学习。
这一趋势在两方面都可以看到。
有一次,我的日本老板面试了一位中国女士,她申请了我们公司的一个职位,这个职位需要一定的日语技能。
当他回来的时候,他感到震惊和困惑。
All of my Japanese coworkers who work in China have high ability to read company documents written in Chinese, and write pretty good business mails in Chinese. On the other hand, all of them have a hard time on speaking or listening, even after long-years learning.
This tendency is seen on both sides.
Once my Japanese boss interviewed a Chinese lady who was applying a position in our company which required a certain level of Japanese language skills.
When he came back, he got SHOCKED and CONFUSED.
我很好奇,如果普通话的“标准”不是基于北京话,而是基于上海话,那它会是日本人最容易学的外语吗?
我所有在中国工作的日本同事都有阅读公司中文文件的能力,用中文写商务邮件也写得很好。另一方面,他们所有人在说或听方面面临困难,即使经过多年的学习。
这一趋势在两方面都可以看到。
有一次,我的日本老板面试了一位中国女士,她申请了我们公司的一个职位,这个职位需要一定的日语技能。
当他回来的时候,他感到震惊和困惑。
‘You know what? Her resume says she has the JLPT (Japanese-Language Proficiency Test) certificate. But when I spoke to her in Japanese, she couldn’t understand ANY of my words. For the whole 30 minutes, the ONLY Japanese she could say was arigatogozaimasu (thank you). How can this happen??’
I was curious too,
‘Wow! Let me see her resume.’
“你知道吗? 她的简历上写着她有日语能力考试证书。但当我用日语跟她说话时,她一个字也听不懂。在整个30分钟里,她唯一能说的日语是“谢谢”。怎么可能发生这样的情况?”
我也很好奇,
“哇! 让我看看她的简历。”
I was curious too,
‘Wow! Let me see her resume.’
“你知道吗? 她的简历上写着她有日语能力考试证书。但当我用日语跟她说话时,她一个字也听不懂。在整个30分钟里,她唯一能说的日语是“谢谢”。怎么可能发生这样的情况?”
我也很好奇,
“哇! 让我看看她的简历。”
Then I saw this:
JLPT-4
That made total sense.
Me: ‘Well, that’s level 4. I guess my mom would pass the test too if only she attended it.’
Boss: ‘Your mother knows Japanese?’
Me: ‘Not at all. But she’s Chinese, she knows Chinese characters. I’ve done that test too. level 1 is super hard to get. Level 2, it certainly requires you some knowledge and skills. Level 3? Not that much. Level 4, well, to Chinese people, it’s pretty possible to pass with little to none Japanese learning.’
(It’s decades ago. Later on I heard the JLPT changed its rules, weighted much more on listening than reading, and made the whole test much more difficult.)
然后我看到了这个:
JLPT-4(日本语能力考试-四级通过证书)
这完全说得通。
我:‘好吧,那是四级。我想只要我妈妈参加考试,她也会通过的。”
老板:“你妈妈懂日语?””
我:‘一点也不懂。但她是中国人,她认识汉字。我也做过这个测试。一级非常难通过。二级,需要一些日语知识和技能才可以通过。三级吗? 不需要那么多。四级,对中国人来说,几乎不学日语就能及格是很有可能的。
(这是几十年前的事了。后来我听说日语考试的规则变了,更偏重听力而不是阅读,整个考试变得更难了。)
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
JLPT-4
That made total sense.
Me: ‘Well, that’s level 4. I guess my mom would pass the test too if only she attended it.’
Boss: ‘Your mother knows Japanese?’
Me: ‘Not at all. But she’s Chinese, she knows Chinese characters. I’ve done that test too. level 1 is super hard to get. Level 2, it certainly requires you some knowledge and skills. Level 3? Not that much. Level 4, well, to Chinese people, it’s pretty possible to pass with little to none Japanese learning.’
(It’s decades ago. Later on I heard the JLPT changed its rules, weighted much more on listening than reading, and made the whole test much more difficult.)
然后我看到了这个:
JLPT-4(日本语能力考试-四级通过证书)
这完全说得通。
我:‘好吧,那是四级。我想只要我妈妈参加考试,她也会通过的。”
老板:“你妈妈懂日语?””
我:‘一点也不懂。但她是中国人,她认识汉字。我也做过这个测试。一级非常难通过。二级,需要一些日语知识和技能才可以通过。三级吗? 不需要那么多。四级,对中国人来说,几乎不学日语就能及格是很有可能的。
(这是几十年前的事了。后来我听说日语考试的规则变了,更偏重听力而不是阅读,整个考试变得更难了。)
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
So you ask me
Which is easier: a Chinese person to learn Japanese, or for a Japanese to learn Chinese?
Thanks to the Chinese characters in common, they can be both easy for both beginners, when it comes to reading and writing, comparing to learners who come from non-Chinese-character background.
But in the long run of learning?
Being a Chinese native and a Japanese learner, being surrounded by Chinese learners, my personal experience tells me…
Both can be damn difficult!
所以你问我:
中国人学日语容易,还是日本人学汉语容易?
由于汉字的共性,在阅读和书写方面,与非汉字背景的学习者相比,这两种语言对两个国家的初学者来说都很容易。
但从长远的学习来看呢?
作为一个中国人和日语学习者,并且周围都是中文学习者,我的个人经验告诉我……
两者都是非常困难的!
Which is easier: a Chinese person to learn Japanese, or for a Japanese to learn Chinese?
Thanks to the Chinese characters in common, they can be both easy for both beginners, when it comes to reading and writing, comparing to learners who come from non-Chinese-character background.
But in the long run of learning?
Being a Chinese native and a Japanese learner, being surrounded by Chinese learners, my personal experience tells me…
Both can be damn difficult!
所以你问我:
中国人学日语容易,还是日本人学汉语容易?
由于汉字的共性,在阅读和书写方面,与非汉字背景的学习者相比,这两种语言对两个国家的初学者来说都很容易。
但从长远的学习来看呢?
作为一个中国人和日语学习者,并且周围都是中文学习者,我的个人经验告诉我……
两者都是非常困难的!
I have written about the difficulties learning Japanese in another answer:
Nell Zhang's answer to Why is Japanese difficult to learn?
The countless honorific usage, the lack of subjects (I, you, he, she…), the mind-blowing complicated give-receive verbs which indicate the make-you-dizzy human relationships…
My language exchange partners always cry about the ‘No grammar but you can’t say that way’ Chinese grammar. Like learning arts instead of science. ‘It’s not wrong, but it feels not right.’
Both China and Japan have very unique and different cultures. And cultures reflect to languages. We can’t learn languages without learning cultures and the diverse ways to view the world, which makes learning even more complicated, colorful and beautiful.
Jiayou! Ganbattene!
我可以用另一种方式来描述学习日语的困难:
Nell Zhang为什么做出了日语很难学的回答?
因为日语中数不清的敬语用法,缺少主语(我,你,他,她……),令人眼花缭乱的复杂的给予-接受动词,令人头晕目眩的人际关系表达词汇……
我的语言交换伙伴总是哭诉“没有语法,你不能那样说”的中文语法。比如学习可以用于艺术而不能是科学。“这没有错,但就是感觉不对。”
中国和日本都有非常独特和不同的文化。而文化的差异又反映了语言的差异。学习语言离不开学习文化和不同的世界观,这使得学习变得更加复杂、丰富多彩和美丽。
加油! 干巴爹!
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Nell Zhang's answer to Why is Japanese difficult to learn?
The countless honorific usage, the lack of subjects (I, you, he, she…), the mind-blowing complicated give-receive verbs which indicate the make-you-dizzy human relationships…
My language exchange partners always cry about the ‘No grammar but you can’t say that way’ Chinese grammar. Like learning arts instead of science. ‘It’s not wrong, but it feels not right.’
Both China and Japan have very unique and different cultures. And cultures reflect to languages. We can’t learn languages without learning cultures and the diverse ways to view the world, which makes learning even more complicated, colorful and beautiful.
Jiayou! Ganbattene!
我可以用另一种方式来描述学习日语的困难:
Nell Zhang为什么做出了日语很难学的回答?
因为日语中数不清的敬语用法,缺少主语(我,你,他,她……),令人眼花缭乱的复杂的给予-接受动词,令人头晕目眩的人际关系表达词汇……
我的语言交换伙伴总是哭诉“没有语法,你不能那样说”的中文语法。比如学习可以用于艺术而不能是科学。“这没有错,但就是感觉不对。”
中国和日本都有非常独特和不同的文化。而文化的差异又反映了语言的差异。学习语言离不开学习文化和不同的世界观,这使得学习变得更加复杂、丰富多彩和美丽。
加油! 干巴爹!
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Rex Ray, lived in Japan (2008-2018)
I grew up in China and have lived 10 years in Japan.
From what I have experienced, I will say a Chinese person to learn Japanese is easier than a Japanese to learn Chinese. Because,
1.The most hard part of both languages is Kanji. Most of the Kanji (if not all) characters in Japanese are from Chinese.
2.There are many dialects used daily in China, many of which use same kanji with different pronunciations and meanings by situations.While most (if not all) kanji used in Japanese has a root in those dialects. So a Chinese person can get used to kanji pronunciations and uses in Japanese easier than vice versa.
我在中国长大,并在日本生活了10年。
从我的经验来看,我会说中国人学日语比日本人学汉语更容易。因为,
1. 两种语言中最难的部分是汉字。日语中的大部分汉字(如果不是全部的话)都来自于中国。
2. 中国有许多被日常使用的方言,其中许多都使用相同的汉字,只是有时会有不同的发音和意义。而日语中使用的大多数(如果不是全部的话)汉字都起源于这些方言。因此,中国人在日语学习中习惯汉字发音和使用汉字比反之更容易。
I grew up in China and have lived 10 years in Japan.
From what I have experienced, I will say a Chinese person to learn Japanese is easier than a Japanese to learn Chinese. Because,
1.The most hard part of both languages is Kanji. Most of the Kanji (if not all) characters in Japanese are from Chinese.
2.There are many dialects used daily in China, many of which use same kanji with different pronunciations and meanings by situations.While most (if not all) kanji used in Japanese has a root in those dialects. So a Chinese person can get used to kanji pronunciations and uses in Japanese easier than vice versa.
我在中国长大,并在日本生活了10年。
从我的经验来看,我会说中国人学日语比日本人学汉语更容易。因为,
1. 两种语言中最难的部分是汉字。日语中的大部分汉字(如果不是全部的话)都来自于中国。
2. 中国有许多被日常使用的方言,其中许多都使用相同的汉字,只是有时会有不同的发音和意义。而日语中使用的大多数(如果不是全部的话)汉字都起源于这些方言。因此,中国人在日语学习中习惯汉字发音和使用汉字比反之更容易。
3.Personally I think the way Chinese studying a foreign language is better than Japanese. Because Chinese study Japanese as Japanese while Japanese study Chinese as Japanese too. (Actually in Japan schools tend to teach all foreign languages as Japanese.) A Chinese person study a foreign language will be taught to think the foreign way, pronounce the foreign way, because its a foreign language which has no business with Chinese language. While a Japanese will be taught to think the Japanese way, pronounce the Japanese way, because a Japanese can only think the Japanese way and pronounce Japanese pronunciations , by the teacher! (My English teacher at junior school in China warned me never learn a foreign language that way at my first English class, now I understand why she warn me that.)
3. 我个人认为中国人学习外语的方式比日语好。因为中国人像学日语一样学日语,而日本人也像学日语一样学汉语。(事实上,日本的学校倾向于把所有的外语都当作日语来教授。)一个学习外语的中国人会被教导用外国的方式思考,用外国的方式发音,因为这是一门外语,它和汉语没有任何关系。而一个日本人却要被老师教去用日本人的方式思考,用日本人的方式发音,因为一个日本人只能用日本人的方式思考和发出日本人的发音!(我在中国的初中英语老师在我的第一堂英语课上警告我千万不要用这种方式学习外语,现在我明白她为什么这样警告我了。)
3. 我个人认为中国人学习外语的方式比日语好。因为中国人像学日语一样学日语,而日本人也像学日语一样学汉语。(事实上,日本的学校倾向于把所有的外语都当作日语来教授。)一个学习外语的中国人会被教导用外国的方式思考,用外国的方式发音,因为这是一门外语,它和汉语没有任何关系。而一个日本人却要被老师教去用日本人的方式思考,用日本人的方式发音,因为一个日本人只能用日本人的方式思考和发出日本人的发音!(我在中国的初中英语老师在我的第一堂英语课上警告我千万不要用这种方式学习外语,现在我明白她为什么这样警告我了。)
4.A Chinese usually has to use 2 or more languages to work and travel in China which are local dialect, mandarin, + English or something else, (yes, even mandarin could be kind of foreign language because its so different from the local dialects include pronunciations , characters and grammar).While in Japan there are less differences between local dialect and Japanese. So a Chinese tend to accept new things easier than a Japanese which I think will be a great a help in studying a language.
4. 中国人在中国工作和旅行通常需要使用两种或两种以上的语言,包括当地方言、普通话、英语或其他语言(是的,甚至普通话也可能是一种外语,因为它与当地方言的发音、字符和语法都非常不同)。而在日本,地方方言和日语普通话之间的差异较小。所以中国人比日本人更容易接受新事物,我认为这对学习语言有很大的帮助。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
4. 中国人在中国工作和旅行通常需要使用两种或两种以上的语言,包括当地方言、普通话、英语或其他语言(是的,甚至普通话也可能是一种外语,因为它与当地方言的发音、字符和语法都非常不同)。而在日本,地方方言和日语普通话之间的差异较小。所以中国人比日本人更容易接受新事物,我认为这对学习语言有很大的帮助。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Erli Lo, M.S from University of California, Irvine (2011)
For Chinese to learn Japanese: Pretty easy to learn beginner’s Japanese, less so for medium or advanced Japanese.
A fast learner would spend only 2–3 months to be able to communicate with Japanese with the basic daily or business issues. As basic Japanese grammar is very simple, the vocabulary abundance is partly related to the conjugation It’s like, if you recognize 500 words, you can do pretty to let Japanese understand you.
Besides, the Kanji word in Japanese are not difficult for us Chinese once you know the rules to pronounce them, the loan words from English or German are understandable, too. So the best part for Chinese to learn beginner’s Japanese is that you don’t have to spend much time to memorize the vocabulary.
However when it goes to medium and advanced Japanese, it takes more time. In this stage, everyone stands at the same level in memorizing new words, there’s no advantages for people from Kanji country like China. But Japanese is still one of the easiest languages to learn for Chinese native speakers. Because English writing and thinking are much more distant from Chinese when compared to Japanese.
对于中国人学习日语来说: 初级日语比较容易,中级或高级日语比较难。
学得快的人只需花2-3个月的时间就能用日语进行基本的日常或商务交流。因为日语的基本语法非常简单,所以学习的难度和词汇量的丰富程度部分与词形变化有关。就像,如果你认识500个日语单词,你就可以很好地让日本人理解你的意思。
此外,日语中的汉字对我们中国人来说并不难,只要你知道它们的发音规则,那些从英语或德语中吸纳的外来词也就可以理解了。所以对于中国人来说,学习初级日语最好的部分就是你不需要花太多的时间去记忆词汇。
然而,当它进入中级和高级日语,你就需要更多的时间了。在这个阶段,每个人在记忆新单词的时候都站在同一个水平上,对于像中国这样的日本汉字来源国的人来说是没有优势的。但对于以中文为母语的人来说,日语仍然是最容易学的语言之一。因为与日语相比,英语的写作和思维方式与汉语的距离要远得多。
For Chinese to learn Japanese: Pretty easy to learn beginner’s Japanese, less so for medium or advanced Japanese.
A fast learner would spend only 2–3 months to be able to communicate with Japanese with the basic daily or business issues. As basic Japanese grammar is very simple, the vocabulary abundance is partly related to the conjugation It’s like, if you recognize 500 words, you can do pretty to let Japanese understand you.
Besides, the Kanji word in Japanese are not difficult for us Chinese once you know the rules to pronounce them, the loan words from English or German are understandable, too. So the best part for Chinese to learn beginner’s Japanese is that you don’t have to spend much time to memorize the vocabulary.
However when it goes to medium and advanced Japanese, it takes more time. In this stage, everyone stands at the same level in memorizing new words, there’s no advantages for people from Kanji country like China. But Japanese is still one of the easiest languages to learn for Chinese native speakers. Because English writing and thinking are much more distant from Chinese when compared to Japanese.
对于中国人学习日语来说: 初级日语比较容易,中级或高级日语比较难。
学得快的人只需花2-3个月的时间就能用日语进行基本的日常或商务交流。因为日语的基本语法非常简单,所以学习的难度和词汇量的丰富程度部分与词形变化有关。就像,如果你认识500个日语单词,你就可以很好地让日本人理解你的意思。
此外,日语中的汉字对我们中国人来说并不难,只要你知道它们的发音规则,那些从英语或德语中吸纳的外来词也就可以理解了。所以对于中国人来说,学习初级日语最好的部分就是你不需要花太多的时间去记忆词汇。
然而,当它进入中级和高级日语,你就需要更多的时间了。在这个阶段,每个人在记忆新单词的时候都站在同一个水平上,对于像中国这样的日本汉字来源国的人来说是没有优势的。但对于以中文为母语的人来说,日语仍然是最容易学的语言之一。因为与日语相比,英语的写作和思维方式与汉语的距离要远得多。
Rafael Chocogaski, lives in Nishinomiya, Hyogo, Japan
In my opinion Chinese is way easier to learn than Japanese.
There is a very good reason for that:
Japanese has a unique system of politeness impossible to master for a foreigner. Unless you do all your studies in Japan, it will be impossible to master Japanese writing etiquette.
I have colleagues that live here in Japan since more than 20 years and they speak super fulenty Japanese, but they can't write an email to a client. They don't have the courage, they could be easily rude or sound unnatural.
There are other aspects of Japanese language that I feel that make it more difficult than Chinese, like Kanji multiple prononciation, conjugation, grammar, etc. But etiquette and naturalness when you write is really something that you can't master easily.
在我看来,汉语比日语更容易学。
这有一个很好的理由:
日本人有一套独特的礼仪体系,外国人是不可能掌握的。除非你在日本完成所有的学业,否则你不可能掌握日语的写作礼仪。
我有一个在日本生活了20多年的同事,他们的日语说得非常流利,但他们不能给客户写电子邮件。他们没有勇气,他们很容易就会表现得粗鲁或读起来不自然。
我觉得日语还有其他方面比汉语更难,比如日本汉字的多重发音、词形变化、语法等。但写作时的礼节和表现得自然是很难掌握的。
In my opinion Chinese is way easier to learn than Japanese.
There is a very good reason for that:
Japanese has a unique system of politeness impossible to master for a foreigner. Unless you do all your studies in Japan, it will be impossible to master Japanese writing etiquette.
I have colleagues that live here in Japan since more than 20 years and they speak super fulenty Japanese, but they can't write an email to a client. They don't have the courage, they could be easily rude or sound unnatural.
There are other aspects of Japanese language that I feel that make it more difficult than Chinese, like Kanji multiple prononciation, conjugation, grammar, etc. But etiquette and naturalness when you write is really something that you can't master easily.
在我看来,汉语比日语更容易学。
这有一个很好的理由:
日本人有一套独特的礼仪体系,外国人是不可能掌握的。除非你在日本完成所有的学业,否则你不可能掌握日语的写作礼仪。
我有一个在日本生活了20多年的同事,他们的日语说得非常流利,但他们不能给客户写电子邮件。他们没有勇气,他们很容易就会表现得粗鲁或读起来不自然。
我觉得日语还有其他方面比汉语更难,比如日本汉字的多重发音、词形变化、语法等。但写作时的礼节和表现得自然是很难掌握的。
Dan Guyer, lived in Chicago
Based upon my experience, learning Chinese is much harder. I spoke to high school students in Chicago who are studying both languages and received a resounding, ‘OMG! Japanese is much easier’. Japanese is one of the easiest languages to pronounce, and thus, speak.
I lived in Japan for a decade, and was impressed by how well Chinese and Koreans spoke and read Japanese. I bet for a Japanese person moving to China at age 21, it would take more time and effort to learn to pronounce Chinese, than it would for a Chinese in Japan to do likewise.
根据我的经验,学习汉语要难得多。我在芝加哥与正在学习这两种语言的高中生交谈时,从他们那得到了一个响亮的回答:“我的天! 日语容易多了。日语是最容易发音的语言之一,因此也最容易说。”
我在日本生活了10年,中国人和韩国人说日语和读日语的水平给我留下了深刻印象。我敢打赌,对于一个21岁搬到中国的日本人来说,学习汉语发音要比一个在日本的中国人学习日语发音花更多的时间和精力。
Based upon my experience, learning Chinese is much harder. I spoke to high school students in Chicago who are studying both languages and received a resounding, ‘OMG! Japanese is much easier’. Japanese is one of the easiest languages to pronounce, and thus, speak.
I lived in Japan for a decade, and was impressed by how well Chinese and Koreans spoke and read Japanese. I bet for a Japanese person moving to China at age 21, it would take more time and effort to learn to pronounce Chinese, than it would for a Chinese in Japan to do likewise.
根据我的经验,学习汉语要难得多。我在芝加哥与正在学习这两种语言的高中生交谈时,从他们那得到了一个响亮的回答:“我的天! 日语容易多了。日语是最容易发音的语言之一,因此也最容易说。”
我在日本生活了10年,中国人和韩国人说日语和读日语的水平给我留下了深刻印象。我敢打赌,对于一个21岁搬到中国的日本人来说,学习汉语发音要比一个在日本的中国人学习日语发音花更多的时间和精力。
Of course, there are cultural factors at play as well. Many Caucasians simply arrive to the East with a lazy attitude, and refuse to rigorously study the language of the land. I knew an Israeli man, owned a large business in Tokyo. He probably learned 10 words in 10 years. Many expats from the UK and USA don’t bother to learn Japanese etc, thinking, ‘Oh, I come from a prosperous nation,,,’ The Chinese students/workers are much more diligent when they arrive, coming from a poor country, knowing they will improve their income greatly if they master the language. I noticed almost all foreigners in Japan learned to at least speak the language, but still were not accepted socially by Japanese society.
当然,也有文化因素在起作用。许多白种人只是带着懒惰的态度来到东方,拒绝努力学习这片土地上的语言。我认识一个以色列人,他在东京有一家大公司。他可能在10年里只学会了10个日语单词。很多来自英国和美国的外籍人士都懒得学日语,他们会想,“哦,我来自一个繁荣的国家……”中国学生/工人在他们来到日本的时候会更勤奋,他们来自一个贫穷的国家,知道如果他们掌握了这门语言,他们的收入就会大大提高。我注意到,几乎所有在日本生活的外国人都至少会说日语,但他们仍然没有被日本社会所接受。
当然,也有文化因素在起作用。许多白种人只是带着懒惰的态度来到东方,拒绝努力学习这片土地上的语言。我认识一个以色列人,他在东京有一家大公司。他可能在10年里只学会了10个日语单词。很多来自英国和美国的外籍人士都懒得学日语,他们会想,“哦,我来自一个繁荣的国家……”中国学生/工人在他们来到日本的时候会更勤奋,他们来自一个贫穷的国家,知道如果他们掌握了这门语言,他们的收入就会大大提高。我注意到,几乎所有在日本生活的外国人都至少会说日语,但他们仍然没有被日本社会所接受。
Scottlyn Blānk, knows Japanese
While the answer to this question can vary somewhat person to person, I would posit that under certain conditions it might be easier for someone who knows Japanese to learn Chinese than the reverse. This being said, there are points to the contrary that can also be made.
To start with, the reason I would posit that it is easier for someone who knows Japanese to learn Chinese is that the Japanese language itself contains many words and concepts from Chinese. Some of the readings of Kanji are known to stem from Chinese at various points in history, and many of them are in fact even similar to modern day Mandarin as well as a few popular varieties of Chinese such as Wu and Yue (e.g. Cantonese; these are mainly eastern dialects of course). The Japanese language itself has a system for classifying character readings, which makes the distinction between native and borrowed Sino-xenic pronunciations. The two main classifications for Japanese character reading this as I recall are On’yomi (音読み) and Kun’yomi (訓読み). For Chinese learners of Japanese, the multiple pronunciations of characters might sometimes lead to confusion, even given exposure to the Japanese language such as via media. Some of the multiple pronunciations and certain terminology in Japanese might make it hard for Chinese learners to a point, especially if they are working to master the language.
虽然这个问题的答案因人而异,但我认为,在某些情况下,懂日语的人学习汉语可能比懂汉语的人学习日语更容易。话虽如此,我们也可以提出相反的观点。
首先,我认为懂日语的人更容易学习汉语的原因是,日语本身包含了很多来自汉语的词汇和概念。众所周知,日本汉字的一些读法源自历史上不同时期的汉语,其中许多字的发音甚至与现代普通话相似,还有一些流行的汉语变体,如吴语和粤语(例如广东话; 当然,这些主要是东部方言)。日语本身有一套汉字读音分类系统,区分了母语和作为外来语的汉字发音。日语中汉字发音的两种方式分别是:On'yomi(音读)和Kun'yomi(训读)。对于学习日语的中国人来说,即使是通过媒体等方式接触日语,日语中汉字的多重发音有时也会导致混淆。日语中的一些多重发音和某些术语可能会在一定程度上让中国学习者感到困难,特别是当他们正在努力掌握这门语言的时候。
While the answer to this question can vary somewhat person to person, I would posit that under certain conditions it might be easier for someone who knows Japanese to learn Chinese than the reverse. This being said, there are points to the contrary that can also be made.
To start with, the reason I would posit that it is easier for someone who knows Japanese to learn Chinese is that the Japanese language itself contains many words and concepts from Chinese. Some of the readings of Kanji are known to stem from Chinese at various points in history, and many of them are in fact even similar to modern day Mandarin as well as a few popular varieties of Chinese such as Wu and Yue (e.g. Cantonese; these are mainly eastern dialects of course). The Japanese language itself has a system for classifying character readings, which makes the distinction between native and borrowed Sino-xenic pronunciations. The two main classifications for Japanese character reading this as I recall are On’yomi (音読み) and Kun’yomi (訓読み). For Chinese learners of Japanese, the multiple pronunciations of characters might sometimes lead to confusion, even given exposure to the Japanese language such as via media. Some of the multiple pronunciations and certain terminology in Japanese might make it hard for Chinese learners to a point, especially if they are working to master the language.
虽然这个问题的答案因人而异,但我认为,在某些情况下,懂日语的人学习汉语可能比懂汉语的人学习日语更容易。话虽如此,我们也可以提出相反的观点。
首先,我认为懂日语的人更容易学习汉语的原因是,日语本身包含了很多来自汉语的词汇和概念。众所周知,日本汉字的一些读法源自历史上不同时期的汉语,其中许多字的发音甚至与现代普通话相似,还有一些流行的汉语变体,如吴语和粤语(例如广东话; 当然,这些主要是东部方言)。日语本身有一套汉字读音分类系统,区分了母语和作为外来语的汉字发音。日语中汉字发音的两种方式分别是:On'yomi(音读)和Kun'yomi(训读)。对于学习日语的中国人来说,即使是通过媒体等方式接触日语,日语中汉字的多重发音有时也会导致混淆。日语中的一些多重发音和某些术语可能会在一定程度上让中国学习者感到困难,特别是当他们正在努力掌握这门语言的时候。
Another to area note regards the features of pronunciation for each language. In Chinese, the tonal aspects of the language are quite clear, even though they take some level of adjustment and getting used to. In Japanese, the importance of intonation is still present yet has different subtleties. Rather than the four or five tones present in Chinese generally speaking, Japanese has a pitch accent system that is quite rhythmic, yet usually not noted when writing nor transcribing the language.
In addition to noting features of the languages themselves, there is also the matter of education. In Japan, it is fairly common for students to learn some level of Chinese, though this usually comes in the form of Classical Chinese (文言文), which is known by the term Kanbun (漢文). Students in Japan tend to learn the classics around Secondary School (Middle to High School). The Japanese literary tradition in particular observes a fair influence by Classical Chinese, perhaps enough so that Chinese people who see Japanese written all in characters sometimes confuse it with [classical] Chinese (it is sometimes called 假中文, or "fake Chinese").
另一个需要注意的地方是每种语言的发音特征。汉语的声调是很清楚的,尽管需要一定程度的调整和适应。在日语中,语调的重要性仍然存在,但有不同的微妙之处。日语的音高重音系统很有节奏,但在书写或抄写语言时通常不会被注意到,它不是像汉语一般有四五个音调。
除了注意语言本身的特点外,还有教育问题。在日本, 有相当普遍的学生会学习一定程度的汉语,虽然这通常是中国古典的语言形式(文言文),这是众所周知的术语Kanbun(漢文)。日本的学生在中学(初中到高中)前后开始学习古典文学。尤其是日本文学众所周知地受到了中国古典文学的深刻影响,这也许会让中国人会把日本文字中的一部分与中国(古典)古文中的一部分混淆(它们有时被称为假中文, 或“假中国语”)。
In addition to noting features of the languages themselves, there is also the matter of education. In Japan, it is fairly common for students to learn some level of Chinese, though this usually comes in the form of Classical Chinese (文言文), which is known by the term Kanbun (漢文). Students in Japan tend to learn the classics around Secondary School (Middle to High School). The Japanese literary tradition in particular observes a fair influence by Classical Chinese, perhaps enough so that Chinese people who see Japanese written all in characters sometimes confuse it with [classical] Chinese (it is sometimes called 假中文, or "fake Chinese").
另一个需要注意的地方是每种语言的发音特征。汉语的声调是很清楚的,尽管需要一定程度的调整和适应。在日语中,语调的重要性仍然存在,但有不同的微妙之处。日语的音高重音系统很有节奏,但在书写或抄写语言时通常不会被注意到,它不是像汉语一般有四五个音调。
除了注意语言本身的特点外,还有教育问题。在日本, 有相当普遍的学生会学习一定程度的汉语,虽然这通常是中国古典的语言形式(文言文),这是众所周知的术语Kanbun(漢文)。日本的学生在中学(初中到高中)前后开始学习古典文学。尤其是日本文学众所周知地受到了中国古典文学的深刻影响,这也许会让中国人会把日本文字中的一部分与中国(古典)古文中的一部分混淆(它们有时被称为假中文, 或“假中国语”)。
Educational institutions and trends are considerable factors when it comes to language learning. As far as I am aware, there are many resources for both Chinese and Japanese, however, foreign language programs and resources for Chinese in Japan appear more popular than the opposite in China. The Chinese language itself also has some key differences to Japanese, particularly when it comes to grammar. Chinese grammar might come as surprisingly similar to other popular languages, including western ones such as English. Chinese also has loanwords much like Japanese, except all are essentially written with Sinographs (characters).
The grammar of English and Chinese are similar enough that they might even appear interchangeable at times, which also could be quite helpful. Both languages are also internationally recognized, including by the United Nations, and would count as ‘Global Languages’. This is not exactly the same for Japanese, even given the immense soft power of Japanese culture and media.
Lastly, there are cultural and historical considerations as well. Without getting into too many details nor being too controversial, the relationship between Japan and surrounding countries including China has been tense at the very least. A number of conflicts and tensions have occurred and a number of them are still mulled over. Historical recollections influence some reservations to this day.
当谈到语言学习时,教育机构的发展趋势是相当重要的因素。据我所知,日语和中文的教育资源都很多,但中文教学项目和资源在日本似乎比日语教学项目和资源在中国更受欢迎。汉语本身和日语也有一些关键的区别,尤其是在语法方面。汉语的语法可能与其他流行语言(包括英语等西方语言)惊人地相似。汉语也有像日语一样的外来词,但它们都是用汉字书写的。
英语和汉语的语法非常相似,有时甚至可以互换,这也汉语的学习很有帮助。这两种语言都是国际公认的热门语言,包括联合国,并被视为“全球语言”。这对日语来说是不可企及的,即使考虑到日本文化和媒体的巨大软实力。
最后,还有文化和历史方面的考虑。虽然没有太多细节,也没有太多争议,但日本和包括中国在内的周边国家的关系一直很紧张。除了已经发生了的一些冲突,还有一些仍在争论之中。对历史的回忆至今仍影响着一些人对这件事的看法。
The grammar of English and Chinese are similar enough that they might even appear interchangeable at times, which also could be quite helpful. Both languages are also internationally recognized, including by the United Nations, and would count as ‘Global Languages’. This is not exactly the same for Japanese, even given the immense soft power of Japanese culture and media.
Lastly, there are cultural and historical considerations as well. Without getting into too many details nor being too controversial, the relationship between Japan and surrounding countries including China has been tense at the very least. A number of conflicts and tensions have occurred and a number of them are still mulled over. Historical recollections influence some reservations to this day.
当谈到语言学习时,教育机构的发展趋势是相当重要的因素。据我所知,日语和中文的教育资源都很多,但中文教学项目和资源在日本似乎比日语教学项目和资源在中国更受欢迎。汉语本身和日语也有一些关键的区别,尤其是在语法方面。汉语的语法可能与其他流行语言(包括英语等西方语言)惊人地相似。汉语也有像日语一样的外来词,但它们都是用汉字书写的。
英语和汉语的语法非常相似,有时甚至可以互换,这也汉语的学习很有帮助。这两种语言都是国际公认的热门语言,包括联合国,并被视为“全球语言”。这对日语来说是不可企及的,即使考虑到日本文化和媒体的巨大软实力。
最后,还有文化和历史方面的考虑。虽然没有太多细节,也没有太多争议,但日本和包括中国在内的周边国家的关系一直很紧张。除了已经发生了的一些冲突,还有一些仍在争论之中。对历史的回忆至今仍影响着一些人对这件事的看法。
Robin Matthews, lives in China (2005-present)
Not many Japanese study Chinese though I met a few in Beijing.
Generally it’s hard for them to live in China as compared to their home country as it is not expecially cultured or hygienic and some locals have a hostile attitude to them. So for them to spend time in country to get really good in Chinese is hard.
Japanese generally find the written language easy but since like many Asians they find it hard to do things in which they are not confident or skilled, they can struggle with speaking and with tones (though that is a struggle for everyone).
没有多少日本人学习中文,尽管我在北京遇到过一些。
一般来说,与他们的祖国相比,他们很难在中国生活,因为中国文化和卫生条件都不怎么样,而且一些当地人对他们怀有敌意。所以,对他们来说,花时间在农村学习中文是很难的。
日本人通常觉得书写很容易,但因为像许多亚洲人一样,他们发现很难做他们不自信或不熟练的事情,他们可能会在发音和语调上挣扎(尽管这对每个人来说都是一种挣扎)。
Not many Japanese study Chinese though I met a few in Beijing.
Generally it’s hard for them to live in China as compared to their home country as it is not expecially cultured or hygienic and some locals have a hostile attitude to them. So for them to spend time in country to get really good in Chinese is hard.
Japanese generally find the written language easy but since like many Asians they find it hard to do things in which they are not confident or skilled, they can struggle with speaking and with tones (though that is a struggle for everyone).
没有多少日本人学习中文,尽管我在北京遇到过一些。
一般来说,与他们的祖国相比,他们很难在中国生活,因为中国文化和卫生条件都不怎么样,而且一些当地人对他们怀有敌意。所以,对他们来说,花时间在农村学习中文是很难的。
日本人通常觉得书写很容易,但因为像许多亚洲人一样,他们发现很难做他们不自信或不熟练的事情,他们可能会在发音和语调上挣扎(尽管这对每个人来说都是一种挣扎)。
on the other hand Chinese in Japan can have an ok life on an ok salary. I met a Chinese girl on my last trip to Tokyo who never wants to leave Japan. Her Japanese is pretty good and to her it is easy.
There are many Chinese studying Japanese in China and that makes it easier as does the incentive of finding a well paid job with a Japanese company with better working conditions than a Chinese company.
So like all these things it’s partly about the language but partly about the environment and culture - you won’t find many Japanese completely fluent in Chinese as their is no real driver to study Chinese to a high level.
另一方面,在日本的中国人可以拥有不错的生活,薪水也不错。我上次去东京的时候遇到了一个中国女孩,她从来都不想离开日本。她的日语很好,对她来说学日语很容易。
有很多中国人在中国学习日语,这能使他们在日本公司找到一份工作变得更容易,因为日本公司的工作条件比中国公司更好。
所以,就像所有这些事情一样,一部分影响是语言,另一部分是环境和文化——你不会发现很多日本人会说完全流利的汉语,因为他们并没有真正推动他们学习汉语达到高水平的动力。
There are many Chinese studying Japanese in China and that makes it easier as does the incentive of finding a well paid job with a Japanese company with better working conditions than a Chinese company.
So like all these things it’s partly about the language but partly about the environment and culture - you won’t find many Japanese completely fluent in Chinese as their is no real driver to study Chinese to a high level.
另一方面,在日本的中国人可以拥有不错的生活,薪水也不错。我上次去东京的时候遇到了一个中国女孩,她从来都不想离开日本。她的日语很好,对她来说学日语很容易。
有很多中国人在中国学习日语,这能使他们在日本公司找到一份工作变得更容易,因为日本公司的工作条件比中国公司更好。
所以,就像所有这些事情一样,一部分影响是语言,另一部分是环境和文化——你不会发现很多日本人会说完全流利的汉语,因为他们并没有真正推动他们学习汉语达到高水平的动力。
Li Zhengmin
It used to be that educated Chinese and Japanese could communicate by writing notes to each other. Now the education has focused on the national languages and few would care to learn literary Chinese. In some ways Asia has become more fractured in modern times.
过去受过良好教育的中国人和日本人可以通过书写互相交流。现在的教育以民族语言为主,很少有人愿意学习中国文学。在某些方面,亚洲在现代变得更加分裂。
It used to be that educated Chinese and Japanese could communicate by writing notes to each other. Now the education has focused on the national languages and few would care to learn literary Chinese. In some ways Asia has become more fractured in modern times.
过去受过良好教育的中国人和日本人可以通过书写互相交流。现在的教育以民族语言为主,很少有人愿意学习中国文学。在某些方面,亚洲在现代变得更加分裂。
Mayumi Suzuki
I couldn’t agree more!
When my younger sister visited Korea, she saw a sign (in Hanji) at a temple that said something like “Passing through this gate three times will make you beautiful.” So naturally, she did three circuits. Her Korean friends asked her what she was doing, and when she explained what the sign said, they were impressed since they hadn’t been able to read it themselves!
我完全同意!
妹妹访问韩国的时候,在一个寺庙看到了一个写着“三次通过这个门,你会变得美丽”的牌子。很自然地,她绕了三圈。她的韩国朋友问她在做什么,当她解释牌子上写的是什么时,他们都惊讶异常,因为他们自己都看不懂!
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I couldn’t agree more!
When my younger sister visited Korea, she saw a sign (in Hanji) at a temple that said something like “Passing through this gate three times will make you beautiful.” So naturally, she did three circuits. Her Korean friends asked her what she was doing, and when she explained what the sign said, they were impressed since they hadn’t been able to read it themselves!
我完全同意!
妹妹访问韩国的时候,在一个寺庙看到了一个写着“三次通过这个门,你会变得美丽”的牌子。很自然地,她绕了三圈。她的韩国朋友问她在做什么,当她解释牌子上写的是什么时,他们都惊讶异常,因为他们自己都看不懂!
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Blake Herrington
I think learning to read is probably easier for a Japanese person for obvious reasons. Speaking is another matter, since grammar and pronunciation are so different. I would think the biggest advantage Japanese people would have in learning chinese would be their faces! As a westerner, no matter how good my chinese gets people will always react strangely towards me. This can make communication more difficult because when people act strangely I won't know if it's because my chinese is bad or because they are uncomfortable around westerners. But a Japanese person will not scare them in this way and they speak more normally with them.
我认为学习阅读对日本人来说可能更容易,原因很明显。口语是另一回事,因为语法和发音是如此不同。我认为日本人学习中文的最大优势是他们的脸! 作为一个西方人,不管我的中文有多好,人们总是对我做出奇怪的反应。这使得交流变得更加困难,因为当人们行为怪异时,我不知道是因为我的中文不好,还是因为他们和西方人在一起感到不舒服。但日本人不会被用这种方式吓到,他们会更正常地与他们交谈。
I think learning to read is probably easier for a Japanese person for obvious reasons. Speaking is another matter, since grammar and pronunciation are so different. I would think the biggest advantage Japanese people would have in learning chinese would be their faces! As a westerner, no matter how good my chinese gets people will always react strangely towards me. This can make communication more difficult because when people act strangely I won't know if it's because my chinese is bad or because they are uncomfortable around westerners. But a Japanese person will not scare them in this way and they speak more normally with them.
我认为学习阅读对日本人来说可能更容易,原因很明显。口语是另一回事,因为语法和发音是如此不同。我认为日本人学习中文的最大优势是他们的脸! 作为一个西方人,不管我的中文有多好,人们总是对我做出奇怪的反应。这使得交流变得更加困难,因为当人们行为怪异时,我不知道是因为我的中文不好,还是因为他们和西方人在一起感到不舒服。但日本人不会被用这种方式吓到,他们会更正常地与他们交谈。
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