多元文化主义对我们的社会有好处吗？（2）
正文翻译
Is multiculturalism good for our society?
多元文化主义对我们的社会有好处吗？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Is multiculturalism good for our society?
多元文化主义对我们的社会有好处吗？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
评论翻译
Stacy Anderson
Couldn’t agree more. I have known people from all over the the world and have lived in several states and on both coasts of the U.S. The thing I remember (I am 52) about the U.S. up until recently is this: people kept certain aspects and traditions of the places their ancestors came from while adopting the general attitudes and ways of this country. People seemed to be more interested in having the somewhat unifying identity of an “American” rather than the fractured assembly of disparate groups today that seem to despise cohesiveness. The countries that now exist in the western hemisphere (yes colonization, topic for another time) are relatively new inventions compared to the established civilizations of the eastern hemisphere. To have the U.S. be as inclusive as it has been is actually quite remarkable. I am hard pressed to think of one country that people haven’t left to come to the U.S. The immigrants I have talked to “back in the day” came here to be Americans not to be “X” living in the U.S.
我非常同意。我认识来自世界各地的人，并在美国的几个州和两岸生活过。我记得（我今年52岁）直到最近美国的情况都还是这样的：人们在采用这个国家的一般态度和方式的同时，还保留了他们祖先来自的地方的某些方面和传统。人们似乎更希望拥有"美国人"这个有点统一的身份，而不是像今天这样由不同的群体组成的支离破碎的集合，他们似乎鄙视凝聚力。现在存在于西半球的国家（是的，殖民化，另一个话题）与东半球的成熟文明相比，是相对较新的发明。美国能够像这样具有包容性，实际上是相当了不起的。我很难想象有哪个国家的人没有来过美国生活。我曾经和 "当年 "的移民谈过，他们来这里是为了成为美国人，而不是为了成为生活在美国的"X"。
Couldn’t agree more. I have known people from all over the the world and have lived in several states and on both coasts of the U.S. The thing I remember (I am 52) about the U.S. up until recently is this: people kept certain aspects and traditions of the places their ancestors came from while adopting the general attitudes and ways of this country. People seemed to be more interested in having the somewhat unifying identity of an “American” rather than the fractured assembly of disparate groups today that seem to despise cohesiveness. The countries that now exist in the western hemisphere (yes colonization, topic for another time) are relatively new inventions compared to the established civilizations of the eastern hemisphere. To have the U.S. be as inclusive as it has been is actually quite remarkable. I am hard pressed to think of one country that people haven’t left to come to the U.S. The immigrants I have talked to “back in the day” came here to be Americans not to be “X” living in the U.S.
我非常同意。我认识来自世界各地的人，并在美国的几个州和两岸生活过。我记得（我今年52岁）直到最近美国的情况都还是这样的：人们在采用这个国家的一般态度和方式的同时，还保留了他们祖先来自的地方的某些方面和传统。人们似乎更希望拥有"美国人"这个有点统一的身份，而不是像今天这样由不同的群体组成的支离破碎的集合，他们似乎鄙视凝聚力。现在存在于西半球的国家（是的，殖民化，另一个话题）与东半球的成熟文明相比，是相对较新的发明。美国能够像这样具有包容性，实际上是相当了不起的。我很难想象有哪个国家的人没有来过美国生活。我曾经和 "当年 "的移民谈过，他们来这里是为了成为美国人，而不是为了成为生活在美国的"X"。
Austin Wellman
The other issue is bidrectional cultural diffusion is a big no-no in modern times, which keeps the us vs them mentality strong. Other than music, even if you want to incorporate Hispanic or black culture into your own the cultural appropriation police come after you. Natural cultural diffusion is a beautiful thing. Culture should never remain static in a society.
另一个问题是，双向文化传播在现代是一个大忌，这使我们 VS 他们的心态一直很强烈。除了音乐之外，即使你想把西班牙或黑人的文化融入你自己的文化，文化挪用警察也会来找你。自然的文化传播是一件美好的事情。文化不应该在一个社会中保持静态。
The other issue is bidrectional cultural diffusion is a big no-no in modern times, which keeps the us vs them mentality strong. Other than music, even if you want to incorporate Hispanic or black culture into your own the cultural appropriation police come after you. Natural cultural diffusion is a beautiful thing. Culture should never remain static in a society.
另一个问题是，双向文化传播在现代是一个大忌，这使我们 VS 他们的心态一直很强烈。除了音乐之外，即使你想把西班牙或黑人的文化融入你自己的文化，文化挪用警察也会来找你。自然的文化传播是一件美好的事情。文化不应该在一个社会中保持静态。
Curtis Lindsay
I agree with much of this in spirit, but I think you may be rose-coloring the past. Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans, among others, were often very slow to integrate. A hundred to a hundred fifty years ago, you might be saying back then that they were the ones who wanted to remain separate, keep standing out. They didn’t always learn English, not the immigrant adults at any rate, far from it. They did form tight enclaves. They faced bigotry, doors slammed in their faces, and a good deal of infighting over turf, especially of course in the cities. They persisted. Gradually they integrated more and more.
I don’t think it’s so wildly different today. There are differences in tone and tenor, sure, but on the whole it seems like the same story continuing to play out. We live in an era where it’s becoming heavily politicized again, largely because of economic stresses. But again that’s just more of the same.
我在精神上同意你的答案中的大部分内容，但我认为你可能对过去进行了粉饰。爱尔兰裔美国人和意大利裔美国人，以及其他一些人，在融合方面往往非常缓慢。一百到一百五十年前，你可能会说，那时他们是想各自保持分离，保持突出的人。他们并不总是学习英语，不管怎么说，移民的成年人并不学习英语，远非如此。他们确实形成了紧密的飞地。他们面临偏执，门砰的一声关上，还有很多争夺地盘的内讧，尤其是在城市里。他们坚持了下来。渐渐地，他们越来越融合。
我不认为今天有那么大的不同。当然，在语气和基调上和以往有差异，但总体而言，这似乎是同一个故事在继续上演。我们生活在一个文化交融再次变得严重政治化的时代，主要是因为经济压力。但这和以前又是一样的。
I agree with much of this in spirit, but I think you may be rose-coloring the past. Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans, among others, were often very slow to integrate. A hundred to a hundred fifty years ago, you might be saying back then that they were the ones who wanted to remain separate, keep standing out. They didn’t always learn English, not the immigrant adults at any rate, far from it. They did form tight enclaves. They faced bigotry, doors slammed in their faces, and a good deal of infighting over turf, especially of course in the cities. They persisted. Gradually they integrated more and more.
I don’t think it’s so wildly different today. There are differences in tone and tenor, sure, but on the whole it seems like the same story continuing to play out. We live in an era where it’s becoming heavily politicized again, largely because of economic stresses. But again that’s just more of the same.
我在精神上同意你的答案中的大部分内容，但我认为你可能对过去进行了粉饰。爱尔兰裔美国人和意大利裔美国人，以及其他一些人，在融合方面往往非常缓慢。一百到一百五十年前，你可能会说，那时他们是想各自保持分离，保持突出的人。他们并不总是学习英语，不管怎么说，移民的成年人并不学习英语，远非如此。他们确实形成了紧密的飞地。他们面临偏执，门砰的一声关上，还有很多争夺地盘的内讧，尤其是在城市里。他们坚持了下来。渐渐地，他们越来越融合。
我不认为今天有那么大的不同。当然，在语气和基调上和以往有差异，但总体而言，这似乎是同一个故事在继续上演。我们生活在一个文化交融再次变得严重政治化的时代，主要是因为经济压力。但这和以前又是一样的。
David Muccigrosso
I think it’s possible to both reject the salad bowl and criticize the not-very-nice methods that were used in the past. It’s not like the integration that we got, whether it was your Jews or my Italians, was a walk in the park. The 1920s KKK-fueled anti-immigration revolt wanted both of our people either out, or kept down.
The salad bowl people are idiots, but they’re the only ones who have been vocally pushing a non-bigoted-nativist position in the mainstream for some time now. I think people like you and I need to spend less time calling them idiots, and more time saying what we actually want.
我认为既可以拒绝沙拉碗模式，又可以批评过去融合时使用的不太妙的方法。我们如今得到的融合，无论是你的犹太人还是我的意大利人，都不像是在公园里散步。20世纪20年代由三K党推动的反移民叛乱希望我们这两个民族要么被淘汰，要么被压制。
推崇沙拉碗模式的人是白痴，但他们是唯一在主流社会中大声推动非偏执的本土主义立场的人，并且到现在已经有一段时间了。我认为像你和我这样的人需要少花点时间骂他们白痴，多花点时间说出我们真正想要的东西。
I think it’s possible to both reject the salad bowl and criticize the not-very-nice methods that were used in the past. It’s not like the integration that we got, whether it was your Jews or my Italians, was a walk in the park. The 1920s KKK-fueled anti-immigration revolt wanted both of our people either out, or kept down.
The salad bowl people are idiots, but they’re the only ones who have been vocally pushing a non-bigoted-nativist position in the mainstream for some time now. I think people like you and I need to spend less time calling them idiots, and more time saying what we actually want.
我认为既可以拒绝沙拉碗模式，又可以批评过去融合时使用的不太妙的方法。我们如今得到的融合，无论是你的犹太人还是我的意大利人，都不像是在公园里散步。20世纪20年代由三K党推动的反移民叛乱希望我们这两个民族要么被淘汰，要么被压制。
推崇沙拉碗模式的人是白痴，但他们是唯一在主流社会中大声推动非偏执的本土主义立场的人，并且到现在已经有一段时间了。我认为像你和我这样的人需要少花点时间骂他们白痴，多花点时间说出我们真正想要的东西。
Jacquline Ard
Clearly this is something that the political left has an issue balancing. It's so odd because some do want people to become neutral, sexless, and utopian. Then we're all supposed to keep to our tribe and change for no one. Modern multiculturalism is superficial at the core.
This might come off as harsh, but multiculturalism in the 21st century is just a bunch of well-meaning (but misguided) privileged white people who want to try different cuisines, clothing styles, and music without truly understanding a culture or tribe, traditions, beliefs, and values.
I've noticed that the right wing generally wants the idealized American melting pot, but some are returning to tribalism and nationalism.
White (European ancestry) and black (African ancestry) nationalists who each want to separate from the rest of society are easier to come across on social media. At least it's not white supremacy or black supremacy, but lines tend to get blurred easily, no? I'm somewhat worried about this trend.
显然，这是政治左派在平衡方面的问题。这很奇怪，因为有些人确实希望人们变得中立、无性化和乌托邦。然后我们都应该保持我们各自的部落，不为任何人改变。现代多元文化主义的核心是肤浅的。
这可能会让人觉得很刺耳，但21世纪的多元文化主义只是一群善意的（但被误导的）有特权的白人，他们想尝试不同的美食、服装风格和音乐，却没有真正了解一种文化或部落、传统、信仰和价值观。
我注意到，右翼普遍希望得到一个理想化的美国大熔炉，但有些人正在回归部落主义和民族主义。
白人（欧洲血统）和黑人（非洲血统）民族主义者各自想与社会其他部分分离，这在社交媒体上比较容易遇到。至少这不是白人至上主义或黑人至上主义，但界限往往很容易被模糊，不是吗？我对这种趋势有些担心。
Clearly this is something that the political left has an issue balancing. It's so odd because some do want people to become neutral, sexless, and utopian. Then we're all supposed to keep to our tribe and change for no one. Modern multiculturalism is superficial at the core.
This might come off as harsh, but multiculturalism in the 21st century is just a bunch of well-meaning (but misguided) privileged white people who want to try different cuisines, clothing styles, and music without truly understanding a culture or tribe, traditions, beliefs, and values.
I've noticed that the right wing generally wants the idealized American melting pot, but some are returning to tribalism and nationalism.
White (European ancestry) and black (African ancestry) nationalists who each want to separate from the rest of society are easier to come across on social media. At least it's not white supremacy or black supremacy, but lines tend to get blurred easily, no? I'm somewhat worried about this trend.
显然，这是政治左派在平衡方面的问题。这很奇怪，因为有些人确实希望人们变得中立、无性化和乌托邦。然后我们都应该保持我们各自的部落，不为任何人改变。现代多元文化主义的核心是肤浅的。
这可能会让人觉得很刺耳，但21世纪的多元文化主义只是一群善意的（但被误导的）有特权的白人，他们想尝试不同的美食、服装风格和音乐，却没有真正了解一种文化或部落、传统、信仰和价值观。
我注意到，右翼普遍希望得到一个理想化的美国大熔炉，但有些人正在回归部落主义和民族主义。
白人（欧洲血统）和黑人（非洲血统）民族主义者各自想与社会其他部分分离，这在社交媒体上比较容易遇到。至少这不是白人至上主义或黑人至上主义，但界限往往很容易被模糊，不是吗？我对这种趋势有些担心。
Stepan Serdyuk
I disagree. You put all of these into a homogenous society, they’ll find another reason to disagree, oppose, and compete. Be it their gender, their skin color, their party badge.
我不同意。你把这些人都放到一个同质化的社会中，他们也会找到另一个理由来反对、对抗和竞争。不管他们的性别，他们的肤色，他们的党派如何。
I disagree. You put all of these into a homogenous society, they’ll find another reason to disagree, oppose, and compete. Be it their gender, their skin color, their party badge.
我不同意。你把这些人都放到一个同质化的社会中，他们也会找到另一个理由来反对、对抗和竞争。不管他们的性别，他们的肤色，他们的党派如何。
Fernando Luna
I hope it doesn't sound racist, but do you think integration might have worked with the Italians, Irish, germans, etc, because they're all white?
我希望这听起来不是种族主义，但你认为融合可能对意大利裔、爱尔兰裔、德国裔等起作用，会不会是因为他们都是白人？
I hope it doesn't sound racist, but do you think integration might have worked with the Italians, Irish, germans, etc, because they're all white?
我希望这听起来不是种族主义，但你认为融合可能对意大利裔、爱尔兰裔、德国裔等起作用，会不会是因为他们都是白人？
Murphy Barrett
No.
Because they’re not white. Back when they were fighting each other they were Italians, Germans, and Irish. Nobody gave a shit they had a similar complexion.
And there are plenty of other examples of where people of different complexions share a unified identity and skin color is no more interesting than hair color.
不。
因为他们不是白人。早在他们互相争斗的时候，他们是意大利人、德国人和爱尔兰人。没有人在乎他们有相似的肤色。
还有很多其他不同肤色的人有一个统一的身份的例子，肤色并不比头发颜色更重要。
No.
Because they’re not white. Back when they were fighting each other they were Italians, Germans, and Irish. Nobody gave a shit they had a similar complexion.
And there are plenty of other examples of where people of different complexions share a unified identity and skin color is no more interesting than hair color.
不。
因为他们不是白人。早在他们互相争斗的时候，他们是意大利人、德国人和爱尔兰人。没有人在乎他们有相似的肤色。
还有很多其他不同肤色的人有一个统一的身份的例子，肤色并不比头发颜色更重要。
Steve Haeger
That’s not remotely true. “White” became a thing in 1600’s America as a way to separate white indentured servants from black slaves. The plantation owners, realizing how badly they were outnumbered and watching the African slaves and European indentured servants living together, inter-marrying, etc. realized that sooner or later they might just not like being forced to work for free abs rise up together.
So the plantation owners started treating the indentured servants just a little bit better. Giving them a blanket in the winter or letting them have actual meat rather than organ meat, that sort of think. All while telling the white indentured servants they were being treated better because they looked like the plantation owners.
Naturally, the African slaves got jealous, the living together stopped, and friends they were no more.
and that was 150+ years before the immigration waves you were referring to.
这并不是事实。在16世纪的美国，"白人"成为一种很重要的东西，是将白人契约仆人与黑人奴隶分开的一种方式。种植园主意识到他们在人数上的劣势，看着非洲奴隶和欧洲契约仆人生活在一起，相互通婚，等等，意识到他们迟早会不喜欢被强迫免费工作而一起造反。
所以种植园主开始对契约仆人好一点。冬天给他们一条毯子，或者让他们吃真正的肉而不是内脏，诸如此类的想法。同时告诉白人契约仆人，他们得到了更好的待遇，只是因为他们长得像种植园主。
自然而然，非洲奴隶嫉妒了，他们停止了共同生活，而他们之间的友谊也不复存在。
而这些发生在你所说的移民潮之前的150多年。
That’s not remotely true. “White” became a thing in 1600’s America as a way to separate white indentured servants from black slaves. The plantation owners, realizing how badly they were outnumbered and watching the African slaves and European indentured servants living together, inter-marrying, etc. realized that sooner or later they might just not like being forced to work for free abs rise up together.
So the plantation owners started treating the indentured servants just a little bit better. Giving them a blanket in the winter or letting them have actual meat rather than organ meat, that sort of think. All while telling the white indentured servants they were being treated better because they looked like the plantation owners.
Naturally, the African slaves got jealous, the living together stopped, and friends they were no more.
and that was 150+ years before the immigration waves you were referring to.
这并不是事实。在16世纪的美国，"白人"成为一种很重要的东西，是将白人契约仆人与黑人奴隶分开的一种方式。种植园主意识到他们在人数上的劣势，看着非洲奴隶和欧洲契约仆人生活在一起，相互通婚，等等，意识到他们迟早会不喜欢被强迫免费工作而一起造反。
所以种植园主开始对契约仆人好一点。冬天给他们一条毯子，或者让他们吃真正的肉而不是内脏，诸如此类的想法。同时告诉白人契约仆人，他们得到了更好的待遇，只是因为他们长得像种植园主。
自然而然，非洲奴隶嫉妒了，他们停止了共同生活，而他们之间的友谊也不复存在。
而这些发生在你所说的移民潮之前的150多年。
Louis Lauzet
I would rather say because they are all christians.
Irish were not really considered white, neither were southern Italians.
我宁愿说是因为他们都是基督徒。
爱尔兰人并没有真正被认为是白人，南方的意大利人也是如此。
I would rather say because they are all christians.
Irish were not really considered white, neither were southern Italians.
我宁愿说是因为他们都是基督徒。
爱尔兰人并没有真正被认为是白人，南方的意大利人也是如此。
Jean Brandt
But they were both almost universally Catholic. The division between the Protestantism of the British descendants as well as the Lutheranism of the German-Americans cannot be ignored in this calculation.
但他们都几乎普遍是天主教徒。在这种计算中，不能忽视英国人新教后裔以及德裔美国人的路德教之间的分歧。
But they were both almost universally Catholic. The division between the Protestantism of the British descendants as well as the Lutheranism of the German-Americans cannot be ignored in this calculation.
但他们都几乎普遍是天主教徒。在这种计算中，不能忽视英国人新教后裔以及德裔美国人的路德教之间的分歧。
David Drucker
As a Canadian (American expat) I take great issue with the idea that homogeneity is a better state than multiculturalism. After immigrating here, I’ve come to realize that the Canadian way is superior. Canada sees it’s immigrants as part of a mosaic, not a melting pot. There is a great deal of pride in the fact that we have people who _don’t_ speak English here. You read that right. To be a Canadian, is instead, an agreement that we all can benefit from a culture fed by many different cultures (and faiths) from other countries. To be sure, there are instances of conflict, with the current furor in Quebec over the forbidding of public servants or teachers wearing religious clothing (like the hijab, which a teacher was let go for wearing), and there are certain practices, like honour-killings ( a practice that persists in some areas of the world like the Middle East, South Asia and North Africa ) that are seen as abhorrent. However, where the US insists on homogeneity and the suppression of an immigrant’s culture from their home country, that is exactly the opposite of Canada, and I feel that your answer is coloured by this pernicious belief. It took me leaving the US to recognize it, but now that I have left, I can see how it is a cruel and outdated belief.
作为一个加拿大人（美国侨民），我对同质化比多元文化主义更好的观点持强烈反对意见。移民到这里后，我逐渐意识到加拿大的方式是优越的。加拿大把它的移民看作是马赛克拼图的一部分，而不是一个大熔炉。我们这里有不讲英语的人，你没看错，这一点让人感到非常自豪。相反，作为加拿大人，我们都可以从来自其他国家的许多不同文化（和信仰）的文化中受益。当然，也有冲突的情况，目前魁北克省因禁止公务员或教师穿戴宗教服装（如头巾，一名教师因穿戴头巾而被开除）而引起的骚动，还有某些做法，如荣誉谋杀（这种做法在世界某些地区如中东、南亚和北非持续存在），被视为令人憎恶的。然而，美国坚持同质化和压制移民的母国文化，这与加拿大恰恰相反，我觉得你的答案被这种有害的信念所影响。我离开美国后才认识到这一点，但现在我已经离开了，我才明白这是一个多么残酷和过时的信念。
As a Canadian (American expat) I take great issue with the idea that homogeneity is a better state than multiculturalism. After immigrating here, I’ve come to realize that the Canadian way is superior. Canada sees it’s immigrants as part of a mosaic, not a melting pot. There is a great deal of pride in the fact that we have people who _don’t_ speak English here. You read that right. To be a Canadian, is instead, an agreement that we all can benefit from a culture fed by many different cultures (and faiths) from other countries. To be sure, there are instances of conflict, with the current furor in Quebec over the forbidding of public servants or teachers wearing religious clothing (like the hijab, which a teacher was let go for wearing), and there are certain practices, like honour-killings ( a practice that persists in some areas of the world like the Middle East, South Asia and North Africa ) that are seen as abhorrent. However, where the US insists on homogeneity and the suppression of an immigrant’s culture from their home country, that is exactly the opposite of Canada, and I feel that your answer is coloured by this pernicious belief. It took me leaving the US to recognize it, but now that I have left, I can see how it is a cruel and outdated belief.
作为一个加拿大人（美国侨民），我对同质化比多元文化主义更好的观点持强烈反对意见。移民到这里后，我逐渐意识到加拿大的方式是优越的。加拿大把它的移民看作是马赛克拼图的一部分，而不是一个大熔炉。我们这里有不讲英语的人，你没看错，这一点让人感到非常自豪。相反，作为加拿大人，我们都可以从来自其他国家的许多不同文化（和信仰）的文化中受益。当然，也有冲突的情况，目前魁北克省因禁止公务员或教师穿戴宗教服装（如头巾，一名教师因穿戴头巾而被开除）而引起的骚动，还有某些做法，如荣誉谋杀（这种做法在世界某些地区如中东、南亚和北非持续存在），被视为令人憎恶的。然而，美国坚持同质化和压制移民的母国文化，这与加拿大恰恰相反，我觉得你的答案被这种有害的信念所影响。我离开美国后才认识到这一点，但现在我已经离开了，我才明白这是一个多么残酷和过时的信念。
William Ward
Yes, yes, a thousand times, YES.
Our country has never been as vibrant as when we had generous immigration policies, and brought others to our great experiment, with their own thoughts, cultural features, history, foods, traditions, even language, and integrated them (and they, us) into those. It’s part of what made the US so strong in the 20th Century… we embraced the best of their cultures and made it ours, while they took ours, and made it theirs.
Until it was back to almost one culture, with just enough differentiation to give a bit of flavor and history to our peoples. It’s what truly made the US become the most cosmopolitan country in the world (whatever some Europeans, with an almost monoculture environment in their own countries, think).
But in the end, it requires the immigrants to embrace the culture HERE, as well, and make that part of them. Standing out on their own… why did they bother to come here if that’s what they want?
是的，是的，一千次是的。
我们的国家从来没有像我们有慷慨的移民政策时那样充满活力，并把其他人带到我们伟大的实验中来，带着他们自己的思想、文化特征、历史、食物、传统，甚至语言，并将他们（以及他们，我们）融入其中。这是使美国在 20 世纪如此强大的部分原因……我们接受了他们最好的文化并将其变为我们的，而他们则将我们的文化变为他们的。
直到它成为几乎是一种文化，但又有足够的差异性，使我们的人民有一点各自的风味和历史。这是真正使美国成为世界上最国际化的国家的原因（不管一些在他们自己的国家几乎是单一文化的环境下的欧洲人是怎么想的）。
但归根结底，它要求移民也接受这里的文化，并使其成为其中的一部分。让自己特立独行……如果这是他们想要的，他们为什么还要费心来这里？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes, yes, a thousand times, YES.
Our country has never been as vibrant as when we had generous immigration policies, and brought others to our great experiment, with their own thoughts, cultural features, history, foods, traditions, even language, and integrated them (and they, us) into those. It’s part of what made the US so strong in the 20th Century… we embraced the best of their cultures and made it ours, while they took ours, and made it theirs.
Until it was back to almost one culture, with just enough differentiation to give a bit of flavor and history to our peoples. It’s what truly made the US become the most cosmopolitan country in the world (whatever some Europeans, with an almost monoculture environment in their own countries, think).
But in the end, it requires the immigrants to embrace the culture HERE, as well, and make that part of them. Standing out on their own… why did they bother to come here if that’s what they want?
是的，是的，一千次是的。
我们的国家从来没有像我们有慷慨的移民政策时那样充满活力，并把其他人带到我们伟大的实验中来，带着他们自己的思想、文化特征、历史、食物、传统，甚至语言，并将他们（以及他们，我们）融入其中。这是使美国在 20 世纪如此强大的部分原因……我们接受了他们最好的文化并将其变为我们的，而他们则将我们的文化变为他们的。
直到它成为几乎是一种文化，但又有足够的差异性，使我们的人民有一点各自的风味和历史。这是真正使美国成为世界上最国际化的国家的原因（不管一些在他们自己的国家几乎是单一文化的环境下的欧洲人是怎么想的）。
但归根结底，它要求移民也接受这里的文化，并使其成为其中的一部分。让自己特立独行……如果这是他们想要的，他们为什么还要费心来这里？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Alisdair Gaston
I think it’s indicative of the total demoralization of our age that the arguments for and against multiculturalism are whether it makes us “stronger” or not.
It’s like arguing over the best way to shelter a broken reed from any light breezes.
我认为，支持和反对多元文化主义的论点在于它是否让我们“更强大”，这表明我们这个时代彻底的士气低落。这就像在争论如何才能让折断的芦苇免受微风的侵袭。
I think it’s indicative of the total demoralization of our age that the arguments for and against multiculturalism are whether it makes us “stronger” or not.
It’s like arguing over the best way to shelter a broken reed from any light breezes.
我认为，支持和反对多元文化主义的论点在于它是否让我们“更强大”，这表明我们这个时代彻底的士气低落。这就像在争论如何才能让折断的芦苇免受微风的侵袭。
Michelle Brouellette
I prefer the Stew Pot to the Melting Pot.
In the Melting Pot, everything is blended beyond recognition. In Stew, however, while the end product is new, you still can find pieces of things you recognize. Yet, they've picked up flavors from everything else.
我更喜欢炖锅，而不是熔炉。
在熔炉中，一切都被混合得面目全非。然而，在炖锅中，虽然最终产品是新的，但你仍然可以找到你认识的东西的碎片。而且它们已经从其他一切事物中提取了味道。
I prefer the Stew Pot to the Melting Pot.
In the Melting Pot, everything is blended beyond recognition. In Stew, however, while the end product is new, you still can find pieces of things you recognize. Yet, they've picked up flavors from everything else.
我更喜欢炖锅，而不是熔炉。
在熔炉中，一切都被混合得面目全非。然而，在炖锅中，虽然最终产品是新的，但你仍然可以找到你认识的东西的碎片。而且它们已经从其他一切事物中提取了味道。
Christopher Aspen
Multiculturalism only works if the small groups within the bigger group, stays small.
There has to be a host culture that is larger, so that group control the status quo, a structure of common rules and laws.
Due to WW2, European nations lost power and legitimacy to operate as rule makers, as the empires ended, Europe produced millions of dead soldiers, cities turned to ashes and no industry to produce.
Rebuilding Europe meant creating a new identity of what it means to be European and subduing petty nationalism, reduced any level of national pride of one’s culture and history, has left Europeans feeling the malady of “civilisation fatigue”. Tired of one’s existence.
Culture and identity, well, those two things are only allowed to exist if you are not European, as a punishment for one’s evil deeds of the past, third world cultures are being imported as a punishment, to create the new agenda of what the “new” Europe should be like. We live in a post- Christian Era, where the shell of that faith, only glimmers through the history books of what old Europe used to be.
Islam and secularism are the two new faiths for Europe which will dominate the culture wars in the future, and there will be wars.
Europe is dead. Thanks to American cultural imperialism and colonial guilt, we have no control of our destiny. We are seeing this in France, Germany and Sweden.
只有在大群体中的小群体保持小规模的情况下，多元文化主义才能发挥作用。
必须有一个更大的东道主文化，以便该群体控制现状，建立共同的规则和法律结构。
由于二战，欧洲国家失去了作为规则制定者运作的权力和合法性，随着帝国的终结，欧洲产生了数百万死去的士兵，城市化为灰烬，没有工业可生产。
重建欧洲意味着创造一个新的欧洲身份认同，抑制狭隘的民族主义，降低一个人对自己文化和历史任何程度的民族自豪感，使欧洲人感到"文明疲劳"的弊病。对自己的存在感到厌倦。
文化和身份，这两样东西只有在你不是欧洲人的情况下才被允许存在，作为对一个人过去的邪恶行为的惩罚，现在从第三世界引进文化，以创造"新"欧洲应该是什么样子的新议程作为一种惩罚。我们生活在一个后基督教时代，这种信仰的外壳只在旧欧洲的历史书中闪现。
伊斯兰教和世俗主义现在是欧洲的两个新信仰，它们将主导未来的文化战争，而且肯定会有战争。
欧洲已经死了。由于美国的文化帝国主义和殖民内疚感，我们无法控制自己的命运。我们在法国、德国和瑞典都看到了这一点。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Multiculturalism only works if the small groups within the bigger group, stays small.
There has to be a host culture that is larger, so that group control the status quo, a structure of common rules and laws.
Due to WW2, European nations lost power and legitimacy to operate as rule makers, as the empires ended, Europe produced millions of dead soldiers, cities turned to ashes and no industry to produce.
Rebuilding Europe meant creating a new identity of what it means to be European and subduing petty nationalism, reduced any level of national pride of one’s culture and history, has left Europeans feeling the malady of “civilisation fatigue”. Tired of one’s existence.
Culture and identity, well, those two things are only allowed to exist if you are not European, as a punishment for one’s evil deeds of the past, third world cultures are being imported as a punishment, to create the new agenda of what the “new” Europe should be like. We live in a post- Christian Era, where the shell of that faith, only glimmers through the history books of what old Europe used to be.
Islam and secularism are the two new faiths for Europe which will dominate the culture wars in the future, and there will be wars.
Europe is dead. Thanks to American cultural imperialism and colonial guilt, we have no control of our destiny. We are seeing this in France, Germany and Sweden.
只有在大群体中的小群体保持小规模的情况下，多元文化主义才能发挥作用。
必须有一个更大的东道主文化，以便该群体控制现状，建立共同的规则和法律结构。
由于二战，欧洲国家失去了作为规则制定者运作的权力和合法性，随着帝国的终结，欧洲产生了数百万死去的士兵，城市化为灰烬，没有工业可生产。
重建欧洲意味着创造一个新的欧洲身份认同，抑制狭隘的民族主义，降低一个人对自己文化和历史任何程度的民族自豪感，使欧洲人感到"文明疲劳"的弊病。对自己的存在感到厌倦。
文化和身份，这两样东西只有在你不是欧洲人的情况下才被允许存在，作为对一个人过去的邪恶行为的惩罚，现在从第三世界引进文化，以创造"新"欧洲应该是什么样子的新议程作为一种惩罚。我们生活在一个后基督教时代，这种信仰的外壳只在旧欧洲的历史书中闪现。
伊斯兰教和世俗主义现在是欧洲的两个新信仰，它们将主导未来的文化战争，而且肯定会有战争。
欧洲已经死了。由于美国的文化帝国主义和殖民内疚感，我们无法控制自己的命运。我们在法国、德国和瑞典都看到了这一点。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Tom Chen
It is too early to tell.
We consider multiculturalism good because things have been working well for such societies, namely USA, in the last few decades. What if the period of prosperity ends and societies enter a long slow decline or stagnation or even conflict? Can diversity stand the test of poverty and maybe even war?
We’ve seen the Holocaust, Chinese exclusion act, and Japanese internment in the past, evidence that suggest multiculturalism may just be a fair weather thing.
现在说这些还为时过早。
我们认为多元文化主义是好的，因为在过去的几十年里，这种社会，即美国，一直运作良好。如果繁荣时期结束，社会进入长期缓慢的衰退或停滞，甚至冲突，会怎样？多样性能经得起贫穷甚至战争的考验吗？
我们已经看到了大屠杀、排华法案和过去的日本人被拘禁，这些证据表明，多元文化主义可能只是一个顺风顺水才能运行的事情。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It is too early to tell.
We consider multiculturalism good because things have been working well for such societies, namely USA, in the last few decades. What if the period of prosperity ends and societies enter a long slow decline or stagnation or even conflict? Can diversity stand the test of poverty and maybe even war?
We’ve seen the Holocaust, Chinese exclusion act, and Japanese internment in the past, evidence that suggest multiculturalism may just be a fair weather thing.
现在说这些还为时过早。
我们认为多元文化主义是好的，因为在过去的几十年里，这种社会，即美国，一直运作良好。如果繁荣时期结束，社会进入长期缓慢的衰退或停滞，甚至冲突，会怎样？多样性能经得起贫穷甚至战争的考验吗？
我们已经看到了大屠杀、排华法案和过去的日本人被拘禁，这些证据表明，多元文化主义可能只是一个顺风顺水才能运行的事情。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Lance Enchantie
I agree with the sentiment, but there another and relatively opposite opposition to the same problem you described: resistance to the melting.
What you described, and forgive me the simplicity of this descxtion, is an issue that the left claims is an problem. Their solution is to retain everything and separate themselves, and setup barriers to prevent others from using it (aka “cultural appropriation”).
However the opposite is an issue the right claims is a problem. And that problem is that if a group does try to integrate their culture in with ours, and be a part of ours, it will change the status quo. Quite frankly, the right does not like this. And while nobody is requiring Jim-Bob to partake in any new celebration or cultural aspect, Jim-Bob often takes offense to it because it’s not what was around him before.
I see the former in this regard as a reaction to the latter because for ages, since I was a child (and when I immigrated myself), I heard the latter directed at others. For me, it wasn’t that hard since Irish traditions integrated here in the mid-to-late 19th century. But other groups? Still a problem. And each new group goes through it. But this cultural salad thing? That’s new. And the seemingly growing sentiment that American culture has reached a zenith and need not be changed or morphed or altered, is a notion that seems to grow every year
我同意你的观点，但对于你描述的同一个问题：抵制融化，我还有另一个相对相反的反对意见。
你所描述的，请原谅我这个描述的简单性，是左派声称的问题。他们的解决方案是保留一切，将自己和群体分开，并设置障碍以防止他人使用它（也称为“文化挪用”）。
然而，与此相反的是，右派也声称这是一个问题。这个问题就是，如果一个群体试图将他们的文化与我们的文化结合起来，成为我们的一部分，就会改变现状。坦率地说，右派不喜欢这样。虽然没有人要求吉姆-鲍勃参加任何新的庆祝活动或文化活动，但吉姆-鲍勃经常对此感到不快，因为这不是他以前社会的样子。
在这方面，我把前者的做法（左派）看作是对后者（右派）的反应，因为从我还是个孩子的时候（以及我自己移民的时候），我就听到后者是针对别人的。对我来说，这种情况的处境并不难，因为爱尔兰的传统在19世纪中后期就融入了这里。但其他群体呢？仍然是一个问题。而且每个新的群体都要经历这个过程。更不用说现在还出现了“文化沙拉”这种新的东西。而且，似乎越来越多的人认为美国文化已经达到了顶点，不需要任何改变或变形或更改。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I agree with the sentiment, but there another and relatively opposite opposition to the same problem you described: resistance to the melting.
What you described, and forgive me the simplicity of this descxtion, is an issue that the left claims is an problem. Their solution is to retain everything and separate themselves, and setup barriers to prevent others from using it (aka “cultural appropriation”).
However the opposite is an issue the right claims is a problem. And that problem is that if a group does try to integrate their culture in with ours, and be a part of ours, it will change the status quo. Quite frankly, the right does not like this. And while nobody is requiring Jim-Bob to partake in any new celebration or cultural aspect, Jim-Bob often takes offense to it because it’s not what was around him before.
I see the former in this regard as a reaction to the latter because for ages, since I was a child (and when I immigrated myself), I heard the latter directed at others. For me, it wasn’t that hard since Irish traditions integrated here in the mid-to-late 19th century. But other groups? Still a problem. And each new group goes through it. But this cultural salad thing? That’s new. And the seemingly growing sentiment that American culture has reached a zenith and need not be changed or morphed or altered, is a notion that seems to grow every year
我同意你的观点，但对于你描述的同一个问题：抵制融化，我还有另一个相对相反的反对意见。
你所描述的，请原谅我这个描述的简单性，是左派声称的问题。他们的解决方案是保留一切，将自己和群体分开，并设置障碍以防止他人使用它（也称为“文化挪用”）。
然而，与此相反的是，右派也声称这是一个问题。这个问题就是，如果一个群体试图将他们的文化与我们的文化结合起来，成为我们的一部分，就会改变现状。坦率地说，右派不喜欢这样。虽然没有人要求吉姆-鲍勃参加任何新的庆祝活动或文化活动，但吉姆-鲍勃经常对此感到不快，因为这不是他以前社会的样子。
在这方面，我把前者的做法（左派）看作是对后者（右派）的反应，因为从我还是个孩子的时候（以及我自己移民的时候），我就听到后者是针对别人的。对我来说，这种情况的处境并不难，因为爱尔兰的传统在19世纪中后期就融入了这里。但其他群体呢？仍然是一个问题。而且每个新的群体都要经历这个过程。更不用说现在还出现了“文化沙拉”这种新的东西。而且，似乎越来越多的人认为美国文化已经达到了顶点，不需要任何改变或变形或更改。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Marie Shell
While I would agree that groups don’t need to stand apart, there is something to be said for maintaining your cultural identity. People who insist that other cultures become “Americanized” are problematic. People should learn and speak English to make life easier for themselves and others, but they should not be required to completely give up their cultural practices and original language in order to fit in. This “I’ll accept you only if you sound, look, and talk exactly like me” mentality is not acceptance; it’s a refusal to adapt to other people or learn from them. Absorbing some bits of other people’s culture while rejecting all other aspects of it doesn’t count.
虽然我同意群体不应该互相孤立，但保持自己的文化身份也是有道理的。那些坚持要求其他文化变得"美国化"的人是有问题的。人们应该学习和说英语，使自己和他人的生活更容易，但不应该要求他们完全放弃自己的文化习俗和原始语言以适应社会。这种"只有当你的声音、外表和谈吐与我完全一样时，我才会接受你"的心态不是一种接受，而是拒绝适应其他人或向他们学习。吸收他人文化的某些部分，而拒绝其所有其他方面并不算数。
While I would agree that groups don’t need to stand apart, there is something to be said for maintaining your cultural identity. People who insist that other cultures become “Americanized” are problematic. People should learn and speak English to make life easier for themselves and others, but they should not be required to completely give up their cultural practices and original language in order to fit in. This “I’ll accept you only if you sound, look, and talk exactly like me” mentality is not acceptance; it’s a refusal to adapt to other people or learn from them. Absorbing some bits of other people’s culture while rejecting all other aspects of it doesn’t count.
虽然我同意群体不应该互相孤立，但保持自己的文化身份也是有道理的。那些坚持要求其他文化变得"美国化"的人是有问题的。人们应该学习和说英语，使自己和他人的生活更容易，但不应该要求他们完全放弃自己的文化习俗和原始语言以适应社会。这种"只有当你的声音、外表和谈吐与我完全一样时，我才会接受你"的心态不是一种接受，而是拒绝适应其他人或向他们学习。吸收他人文化的某些部分，而拒绝其所有其他方面并不算数。
April Onwudiwe
I agree with your answer. However, I must say that you guys in the west have defined multiculturalism wrongly. It makes me laugh some times. Just because some immigrants come and blend into the host society does not make that society/country multicultural.
Multiculturalism is when a society/country has different languages, religions, ways of dressing etc which are all recognised and accepted officially as part of the society/country.
Examples of countries that meet that definition of multiculturalism, are India, Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana in fact many African countries.
You can't claim multiculturalism when the immigrant has to drop his language, his way of life, to integrate into the host society.
In fact some immigrants come from societies that allow for polygamy in their culture. They have to shelve that culture.
Some Muslim women have to be weary of how they dress with their Muslim dress codes in their host societies.
All these don't point to multiculturalism. But rather something else.
我同意你的回答。然而，我必须说，你们西方人对多元文化的定义是错误的。有些时候，这让我感到好笑。仅仅因为一些移民来到并融入东道国社会，并不意味着该社会/国家就是多元文化。
多元文化是指一个社会/国家有不同的语言、宗教、着装方式等，这些都被官方承认和接受为社会/国家的一部分。
符合多元文化定义的国家有印度、尼日利亚、南非、加纳，事实上还有许多非洲国家。
当移民不得不放弃自己的语言和生活方式以融入东道国社会时，你就不能声称是多元文化。
事实上，一些移民来自于允许一夫多妻制的社会和文化，现在他们必须搁置这种文化。
一些穆斯林妇女不得不对她们在东道国社会的穆斯林着装规范感到厌倦。
所有这些都不指向多元文化主义。而是其他的东西。
I agree with your answer. However, I must say that you guys in the west have defined multiculturalism wrongly. It makes me laugh some times. Just because some immigrants come and blend into the host society does not make that society/country multicultural.
Multiculturalism is when a society/country has different languages, religions, ways of dressing etc which are all recognised and accepted officially as part of the society/country.
Examples of countries that meet that definition of multiculturalism, are India, Nigeria, South Africa, Ghana in fact many African countries.
You can't claim multiculturalism when the immigrant has to drop his language, his way of life, to integrate into the host society.
In fact some immigrants come from societies that allow for polygamy in their culture. They have to shelve that culture.
Some Muslim women have to be weary of how they dress with their Muslim dress codes in their host societies.
All these don't point to multiculturalism. But rather something else.
我同意你的回答。然而，我必须说，你们西方人对多元文化的定义是错误的。有些时候，这让我感到好笑。仅仅因为一些移民来到并融入东道国社会，并不意味着该社会/国家就是多元文化。
多元文化是指一个社会/国家有不同的语言、宗教、着装方式等，这些都被官方承认和接受为社会/国家的一部分。
符合多元文化定义的国家有印度、尼日利亚、南非、加纳，事实上还有许多非洲国家。
当移民不得不放弃自己的语言和生活方式以融入东道国社会时，你就不能声称是多元文化。
事实上，一些移民来自于允许一夫多妻制的社会和文化，现在他们必须搁置这种文化。
一些穆斯林妇女不得不对她们在东道国社会的穆斯林着装规范感到厌倦。
所有这些都不指向多元文化主义。而是其他的东西。
Marcus Moche
Yes, it’s very important that some immigrant cultures do not lose precious elements of their “culture” like bachi bazi, child marriage, FGM, hatred of infidels, misogyny, virulent anti-semitism, beheadings and gang-rape of underage kuffar girls, right?
是的，一些移民文化不要失去他们“文化”中的宝贵元素，例如童戏、童婚、女性生殖器切割、仇恨异教徒、厌女症、恶毒的反犹太主义、斩首和轮奸未成年卡菲勒女孩，这一点非常重要，对吧?
Yes, it’s very important that some immigrant cultures do not lose precious elements of their “culture” like bachi bazi, child marriage, FGM, hatred of infidels, misogyny, virulent anti-semitism, beheadings and gang-rape of underage kuffar girls, right?
是的，一些移民文化不要失去他们“文化”中的宝贵元素，例如童戏、童婚、女性生殖器切割、仇恨异教徒、厌女症、恶毒的反犹太主义、斩首和轮奸未成年卡菲勒女孩，这一点非常重要，对吧?
Surreal Killer
Europe is having that integration issue with Muslims and Arabs. They refuse to integrate in anyway and in fact demand people cater to their culture and want to tear down statues and monuments of great European leaders from the past. It's horrible. The worst part? There are idiots that WANT to cater to these belligerent guests. Immigrants have no right to come to a foreign land and start trying to change the culture of another nation.
欧洲正面临着穆斯林和阿拉伯人的融合问题。他们无论如何都拒绝融合，事实上反而要求人们迎合他们的文化，并想拆掉过去欧洲伟大领导人的雕像和纪念碑。这很可怕。最糟糕的是什么？有一些白痴想迎合这些好战的客人。移民没有权利来到异国他乡还试图改变另一个国家的文化。
Europe is having that integration issue with Muslims and Arabs. They refuse to integrate in anyway and in fact demand people cater to their culture and want to tear down statues and monuments of great European leaders from the past. It's horrible. The worst part? There are idiots that WANT to cater to these belligerent guests. Immigrants have no right to come to a foreign land and start trying to change the culture of another nation.
欧洲正面临着穆斯林和阿拉伯人的融合问题。他们无论如何都拒绝融合，事实上反而要求人们迎合他们的文化，并想拆掉过去欧洲伟大领导人的雕像和纪念碑。这很可怕。最糟糕的是什么？有一些白痴想迎合这些好战的客人。移民没有权利来到异国他乡还试图改变另一个国家的文化。
很赞 0
收藏