印度网友：印度的素食主义在道德上并不优越，它与道德或伦理无关
正文翻译
My family is vegetarian. Consumption of meat based food by others was treated with disgust. I initially believed their reasoning - that it was cruel to animals, that it was not right to cause harm to another living thing, etc. But then they were also uncomfortable with eating food at a restaurant that also had meat dishes on the menu. They disliked vegetarian food being cooked in utensils that had been used to prepare meat dishes. Egg doesn't even have any meat but was still considered a bad thing to eat.
我家是素食者。我的其他家人对吃肉类食物感到厌恶。起初我相信他们的理由——这对动物是残忍的，对其他生物造成伤害是不对的，等等。但他们也会对在菜单上也有荤菜的餐厅吃饭感到不舒服。他们不喜欢用做过肉类菜肴的器皿烹调素菜。鸡蛋里没有任何肉，但他们仍然认为那是一种不好的食物。
My family is vegetarian. Consumption of meat based food by others was treated with disgust. I initially believed their reasoning - that it was cruel to animals, that it was not right to cause harm to another living thing, etc. But then they were also uncomfortable with eating food at a restaurant that also had meat dishes on the menu. They disliked vegetarian food being cooked in utensils that had been used to prepare meat dishes. Egg doesn't even have any meat but was still considered a bad thing to eat.
我家是素食者。我的其他家人对吃肉类食物感到厌恶。起初我相信他们的理由——这对动物是残忍的，对其他生物造成伤害是不对的，等等。但他们也会对在菜单上也有荤菜的餐厅吃饭感到不舒服。他们不喜欢用做过肉类菜肴的器皿烹调素菜。鸡蛋里没有任何肉，但他们仍然认为那是一种不好的食物。
As I grew up, I realized that vegetarianism for them, and society at large, was about maintaining an imagined purity that had been bestowed upon them by virtue of being born in an upper caste lineage. Since butchering, skinning and tanning of animals is considered the occupation of untouchablesoutcastes, for an upper caste person to partake in it means risking the ritual purity or caste based superiority. Disgust towards a meat based diet is actually disgust towards the section of our society (Dalits, Muslims) who consume it. Among Gujarat's upper castes, someone who eats non-vegetarian food is considered a baser person, someone who has not quite adopted human values and norms.
随着我的成长，我意识到，对他们，乃至整个社会来说，素食主义意味着保持一种想象中的纯洁，这种纯洁是由于出生在高种姓血统而赋予他们的。由于屠宰、剥皮和鞣制动物被认为是贱民的职业，对一个高种姓的人来说，参与其中意味着会承担失去宗教仪式的纯洁或基于种姓的优越感的风险。他们对肉食的厌恶实际上是对我们社会中食用肉食的部分人(达利特人、穆斯林)的厌恶。在古吉拉特邦的高种姓中，吃非素食的人被认为是卑贱的人，没有完全接受人类的价值观和规范。
随着我的成长，我意识到，对他们，乃至整个社会来说，素食主义意味着保持一种想象中的纯洁，这种纯洁是由于出生在高种姓血统而赋予他们的。由于屠宰、剥皮和鞣制动物被认为是贱民的职业，对一个高种姓的人来说，参与其中意味着会承担失去宗教仪式的纯洁或基于种姓的优越感的风险。他们对肉食的厌恶实际上是对我们社会中食用肉食的部分人(达利特人、穆斯林)的厌恶。在古吉拉特邦的高种姓中，吃非素食的人被认为是卑贱的人，没有完全接受人类的价值观和规范。
The vegetarian sort is fine with the exploitation of livestock for milk. They are okay with cows being pumped with steroids, with male calves being culled for being unproductive, old cows being let loose on the streets, with cattle starving to death in cow shelters. Even this pretense of humaneness is restricted to animals. Jainsupper caste Hindus who harp about the moral superiority of their food are the vote banks of a political party which has caused widespread massacres. Denying Muslims and Dalits permission to reside in their localities, forcibly stopping the sale of meat on JainHindu holy days, removing eggs from the mid day meals of school kids, banning the slaughter of cattle does not strike these people as violence being committed on their fellow humans. It is such people who constitute and support a party that overtly states its goal to be the subjugation of the 'other'. Protesting the loss of life in pogroms, mob lynching, caste based violence or fake encounters as a community never occurs to devout Jainsupper caste Hindus. Spilling the blood of people they consider inferior does not shake their faith.
素食主义者一定程度上可以利用牲畜来获取奶。他们可以接受给奶牛注射类固醇，可以接受公牛犊因为没有产出而被宰杀，可以接受老牛被放到大街上乱走，可以接受小牛在牛棚里饿死。甚至这种人道的伪装也仅限于动物。耆那教种姓的印度教徒喋喋不休地宣扬他们在食物方面具有道德优越感，但他们却是某个政党的票仓，而那个政党已经造成了大规模屠杀。他们拒绝允许穆斯林和达利特人在他们的地方居住，强行阻止在耆那印度教圣日出售肉类，把学童午餐中的鸡蛋取消，禁止宰牛，却不去打击那些对同胞犯下暴力的人。正是这些人组成并支持一个公开宣称其目标是征服“他者”的政党。作为一个群体，虔诚的耆那教种姓印度教徒从来没有为大屠杀、暴民私刑、基于种姓的暴力或虚假遭遇造成的死难者提出抗议。让那些他们认为低人一等的人流血，并不会动摇他们的信仰。
素食主义者一定程度上可以利用牲畜来获取奶。他们可以接受给奶牛注射类固醇，可以接受公牛犊因为没有产出而被宰杀，可以接受老牛被放到大街上乱走，可以接受小牛在牛棚里饿死。甚至这种人道的伪装也仅限于动物。耆那教种姓的印度教徒喋喋不休地宣扬他们在食物方面具有道德优越感，但他们却是某个政党的票仓，而那个政党已经造成了大规模屠杀。他们拒绝允许穆斯林和达利特人在他们的地方居住，强行阻止在耆那印度教圣日出售肉类，把学童午餐中的鸡蛋取消，禁止宰牛，却不去打击那些对同胞犯下暴力的人。正是这些人组成并支持一个公开宣称其目标是征服“他者”的政党。作为一个群体，虔诚的耆那教种姓印度教徒从来没有为大屠杀、暴民私刑、基于种姓的暴力或虚假遭遇造成的死难者提出抗议。让那些他们认为低人一等的人流血，并不会动摇他们的信仰。
This explains why upper caste HindusJains are so obsessed with vegetarianism, so much so as to label the normal food of the masses, that is contrary with their own practices, as non-vegetarian. It's merely a performance. Those who call the cow their mother, consume its dung and urine, or claim vegetarianism as superior have no great love for animals or ethical living. Vegetarianism is merely a vehicle to project and maintain superiority over the lower caste masses. It makes it easier to think of yourself as a good person while ill treating those who have no power to fight back.
这就解释了为什么高种姓的印度耆那教徒如此痴迷于素食主义，以至于给普通大众的食物——与他们自己的做法相反的食物——贴上非素食的标签。这只是一场表演。那些称奶牛为他们的母亲，吃它的粪便和尿液，或声称素食主义优越的人，对动物或道德生活并没有极大的热爱。素食主义仅仅是投射和维持对低种姓大众的优势的一种工具。这让他们更容易认为自己是一个好人，同时虐待那些无力反击的人。
这就解释了为什么高种姓的印度耆那教徒如此痴迷于素食主义，以至于给普通大众的食物——与他们自己的做法相反的食物——贴上非素食的标签。这只是一场表演。那些称奶牛为他们的母亲，吃它的粪便和尿液，或声称素食主义优越的人，对动物或道德生活并没有极大的热爱。素食主义仅仅是投射和维持对低种姓大众的优势的一种工具。这让他们更容易认为自己是一个好人，同时虐待那些无力反击的人。
评论翻译
veganvoyager
I have been through the exact same train of thought as you, coming from a lacto-vegetarian Gujarati family.
我和你有着完全相同的想法，我来自一个乳素食的古吉拉特家庭。
I have been through the exact same train of thought as you, coming from a lacto-vegetarian Gujarati family.
我和你有着完全相同的想法，我来自一个乳素食的古吉拉特家庭。
It is not morally superior in any way, there's plenty of animal exploitation even in vegetarianism. Cows are literally kept pregnant as long as they can produce milk while each calf fuels the veal industry. At the end when they can't keep this up they're slaughtered. It's sickening and dystopian, the scale at which we exploit animals and how few people care about this.
它在道德上并不优越，即使素食主义中也有大量的动物剥削。只要奶牛能产奶，每头小牛都成为小牛肉产业的原料，它们就会一直怀孕。最后，当它们无法保持这种状态时，就会被宰杀。我们剥削动物的规模，以及很少有人关心这一点的现象，是令人作呕和反乌托邦的。
它在道德上并不优越，即使素食主义中也有大量的动物剥削。只要奶牛能产奶，每头小牛都成为小牛肉产业的原料，它们就会一直怀孕。最后，当它们无法保持这种状态时，就会被宰杀。我们剥削动物的规模，以及很少有人关心这一点的现象，是令人作呕和反乌托邦的。
I went vegan the day I found out about all this.
从发现这一切的那天，我就开始吃素了。
从发现这一切的那天，我就开始吃素了。
AP7497
I have the same exact story though my family is vegetarian for caste-related reasons. Went vegan 3 years ago, and I finally feel like I’ve made an informed choice.
尽管我的家人因为种姓原因是素食者，但我也有同样的故事。三年前开始吃素，我终于觉得自己做出了明智的选择。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I have the same exact story though my family is vegetarian for caste-related reasons. Went vegan 3 years ago, and I finally feel like I’ve made an informed choice.
尽管我的家人因为种姓原因是素食者，但我也有同样的故事。三年前开始吃素，我终于觉得自己做出了明智的选择。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
the_myth69
i hope to turn vegan one day too , just let me figure out protein intake.
我希望有一天也成为素食主义者，只要能搞定蛋白质摄入量。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
i hope to turn vegan one day too , just let me figure out protein intake.
我希望有一天也成为素食主义者，只要能搞定蛋白质摄入量。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
i am vegetarian currently
我现在是素食者。
我现在是素食者。
although i respectfully disagree with ur point that vegetarian is not morally superior to non vegetarian diet as its not as harmfull as non veg diet.
但我尊敬地不同意你的观点，即素食者在道德上并不比非素食者优越，因为它的害处没有非素食者那么大。
但我尊敬地不同意你的观点，即素食者在道德上并不比非素食者优越，因为它的害处没有非素食者那么大。
Although being vegan is miles better.
但奶素食要好一点。
但奶素食要好一点。
gabrielleraul
You're a good person
你是个好人。
You're a good person
你是个好人。
jakewang1
Just ask why was Ram hunting a deer? To impress his wife or have a good meal in the middle of thick vegetation?
问问拉姆神为什么要猎鹿?是为了给妻子留下好印象还是为了在茂密的草木丛中美美地吃一顿?
Just ask why was Ram hunting a deer? To impress his wife or have a good meal in the middle of thick vegetation?
问问拉姆神为什么要猎鹿?是为了给妻子留下好印象还是为了在茂密的草木丛中美美地吃一顿?
Rasa_Aggarwal
Probably both. They would have made clothes out of the skin and ate the meat.
可能两者兼而有之。他们会用牛皮做衣服，然后吃肉。
Probably both. They would have made clothes out of the skin and ate the meat.
可能两者兼而有之。他们会用牛皮做衣服，然后吃肉。
rahulreddy148
The deer was asking for it in another dimension - "Bad"guru
那只鹿在另一个维度要求它- "坏"大师。
The deer was asking for it in another dimension - "Bad"guru
那只鹿在另一个维度要求它- "坏"大师。
iShivamz
Bhakts will suffer a short circuit, if asked such questions
如果被问到这样的问题，印度人将发生短路。
Bhakts will suffer a short circuit, if asked such questions
如果被问到这样的问题，印度人将发生短路。
ApexPredator1995
didnt they wear deer skin or something?
他们不是穿鹿皮什么的吗?
didnt they wear deer skin or something?
他们不是穿鹿皮什么的吗?
devil_21
But Ram is the god of Hindus, not only upper caste vegetarian Hindus.
但拉姆是所有印度教徒的神，而不仅仅是高种姓的素食印度教徒的神。
But Ram is the god of Hindus, not only upper caste vegetarian Hindus.
但拉姆是所有印度教徒的神，而不仅仅是高种姓的素食印度教徒的神。
madlabdog
A person who has a superiority complex will find every possible argument to justify his/her superiority. This has nothing to do with being vegetarian.
一个有优越感的人会找到一切可能的理由来证明他/她的优越性。这与吃素无关。
A person who has a superiority complex will find every possible argument to justify his/her superiority. This has nothing to do with being vegetarian.
一个有优越感的人会找到一切可能的理由来证明他/她的优越性。这与吃素无关。
beuwbies
And that's what OP literally said.
这就是题主的字面意思。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
And that's what OP literally said.
这就是题主的字面意思。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Edit : It definitely has much to do with being vegetarian and hating those who aren't. Debate about being veg and non-veg is just an aspect of it. Same logics apply when it comes casteism and LGBTQ+. They hate them because they don't consider them equal. It's simple as that. (And if you are thinking that's exactly what you said, you are misunderstanding me again.)
编辑：这肯定与成为素食者和讨厌那些非素食者有很大关系。关于素食和非素食的争论只是其中的一个方面。同样的逻辑也适用于种姓制度和LGBTQ+。他们恨别人，因为他们没有平等看待后者。就这么简单。(如果你认为这就是你所说的，那你又误解我了。)
编辑：这肯定与成为素食者和讨厌那些非素食者有很大关系。关于素食和非素食的争论只是其中的一个方面。同样的逻辑也适用于种姓制度和LGBTQ+。他们恨别人，因为他们没有平等看待后者。就这么简单。(如果你认为这就是你所说的，那你又误解我了。)
Fit_Narwhal_2478
No op was making a point about the morality of fake vegetarianism ideals. Really though the end result of reducing some animal and environmental burden, despite intent, is what makes it morally superior.
不，题主对假素食主义的道德性提出了观点。虽然最终结果是减少某些动物和环境负担，尽管这是有意的，但却让它在道德上更优越。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
No op was making a point about the morality of fake vegetarianism ideals. Really though the end result of reducing some animal and environmental burden, despite intent, is what makes it morally superior.
不，题主对假素食主义的道德性提出了观点。虽然最终结果是减少某些动物和环境负担，尽管这是有意的，但却让它在道德上更优越。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
madlabdog
If I understood correctly, OP is generalizing vegetarians in India as hypocrites.
如果我理解正确的话，题主将印度的素食者概括为伪君子。
If I understood correctly, OP is generalizing vegetarians in India as hypocrites.
如果我理解正确的话，题主将印度的素食者概括为伪君子。
rvtsazap
Although I cannot agree with all the points in OP’s original post, I respect their opinions.
虽然我不能同意题主原帖中的所有观点，但我尊重他们的意见。
Although I cannot agree with all the points in OP’s original post, I respect their opinions.
虽然我不能同意题主原帖中的所有观点，但我尊重他们的意见。
I would like to add the subtle hatred in form of ridicule that was directed at East Asians for eating bats and dogs.
我想要以嘲笑的形式，加上一种微妙的仇恨，针对东亚人吃蝙蝠和狗。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
我想要以嘲笑的形式，加上一种微妙的仇恨，针对东亚人吃蝙蝠和狗。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
kanch0807
The post was very subjective. I am a Hindu, non-vegetarian by birth , but vegetarian by choice. I was once invited to a party by my Caucasian friend who asked me to confirm a week earlier so that he would know how big the cow would be to be slaughtered. I did not go . Having seen my grandpa who tendered his old cows until their death ( because they have given milk when young) while financially not so viable, I have seen his love for his animals. It always stays with me . That doesn’t mean he ate and drank cow urine or dung . These people here post very half knowledge or derogatory things about a practice that which they are not even aware . All they see is some dumb political statements about how cow urine is good and make passive aggressive statements about certain groups that have nothing to do with politicians . Also , Western people also don’t eat horse meat for similar reasons . They used them for farming.
这篇文章非常主观。我是印度教徒，生下来就不是素食者，但我是选择成为素食者的。有一次，我的一个白人朋友邀请我参加一个聚会，他提前一个星期就让我确认，这样他就能知道需要屠宰多大的牛。我没有去。当我爷爷的老奶牛不再能赚钱时，他依然照顾它们，直到它们死去(因为它们在年轻的时候就给奶牛挤奶了)，在目睹这一切之后，我看到了他对那些动物的爱。这种感情一直陪伴着我。这并不代表他喝牛尿或吃牛粪。这些人在这里对素食发表了一些一知半解或者贬低的话，但他们根本不了解这种实践。他们只看到一些愚蠢的政治声明，说牛尿如何好，却对某些与政客无关的群体发表负面的攻击性声明。同样，西方人也因为类似的原因不吃马肉。因为他们用马来耕种。
The post was very subjective. I am a Hindu, non-vegetarian by birth , but vegetarian by choice. I was once invited to a party by my Caucasian friend who asked me to confirm a week earlier so that he would know how big the cow would be to be slaughtered. I did not go . Having seen my grandpa who tendered his old cows until their death ( because they have given milk when young) while financially not so viable, I have seen his love for his animals. It always stays with me . That doesn’t mean he ate and drank cow urine or dung . These people here post very half knowledge or derogatory things about a practice that which they are not even aware . All they see is some dumb political statements about how cow urine is good and make passive aggressive statements about certain groups that have nothing to do with politicians . Also , Western people also don’t eat horse meat for similar reasons . They used them for farming.
这篇文章非常主观。我是印度教徒，生下来就不是素食者，但我是选择成为素食者的。有一次，我的一个白人朋友邀请我参加一个聚会，他提前一个星期就让我确认，这样他就能知道需要屠宰多大的牛。我没有去。当我爷爷的老奶牛不再能赚钱时，他依然照顾它们，直到它们死去(因为它们在年轻的时候就给奶牛挤奶了)，在目睹这一切之后，我看到了他对那些动物的爱。这种感情一直陪伴着我。这并不代表他喝牛尿或吃牛粪。这些人在这里对素食发表了一些一知半解或者贬低的话，但他们根本不了解这种实践。他们只看到一些愚蠢的政治声明，说牛尿如何好，却对某些与政客无关的群体发表负面的攻击性声明。同样，西方人也因为类似的原因不吃马肉。因为他们用马来耕种。
Beneathmoi
It's a typical case of hasty generalization.
这是一个草率概括的典型例子。
It's a typical case of hasty generalization.
这是一个草率概括的典型例子。
TheFakeProphet
Yes you are right, but not every vegetarian is like that. Not all of them claim superiority over others like you said. Its the same as every other group of individuals.
是的，你是对的，但不是每个素食者都是那样的。不是所有人都像你说的那样自称比别人优越。他们和其他群体的人一样。
Yes you are right, but not every vegetarian is like that. Not all of them claim superiority over others like you said. Its the same as every other group of individuals.
是的，你是对的，但不是每个素食者都是那样的。不是所有人都像你说的那样自称比别人优越。他们和其他群体的人一样。
I too am a vegetarian by choice. It was a rational decison according to my thinking and i still stick by it. The principle i live by - Cause other life as less harm as possible so as they don't hinder your own well being. Humans need animal based vitamin eg. Vitamin B12, which you cannot get from any other source - for which milk becomes an essential part of my diet. Traditionally cows were kept in every household and they were cared for in return of milk (yes i know the repeated imregnation of the animal is no way okay but the care given to the animal was very good, industrialisation destroyed that culture).
我也是自愿吃素的。根据我的想法，这是一个理性的决定，我仍然坚持它。我生活的原则是对其他生命的伤害越少越好，这样他们就不会妨碍你的幸福。人类需要动物性维生素。维生素B12，我们无法从其他任何来源获得，因此牛奶成为我饮食中必不可少的一部分。传统上，每家每户都养奶牛，它们得到照顾，以牛奶作为回报(是的，我知道反复让动物受孕是不好的，但对动物的照顾是非常好的事，而工业化摧毁了这种文化。）
我也是自愿吃素的。根据我的想法，这是一个理性的决定，我仍然坚持它。我生活的原则是对其他生命的伤害越少越好，这样他们就不会妨碍你的幸福。人类需要动物性维生素。维生素B12，我们无法从其他任何来源获得，因此牛奶成为我饮食中必不可少的一部分。传统上，每家每户都养奶牛，它们得到照顾，以牛奶作为回报(是的，我知道反复让动物受孕是不好的，但对动物的照顾是非常好的事，而工业化摧毁了这种文化。）
If a person uses medicine, or vitamin tablets, they cannot say that they hav not benefitted from the life of an animal. Whoever says otherwise is an hypocrite. But I will say that I wont kill an animal unless it becomes essential for my survival i.e. I will kill and eat if suppose im stranded on an island and there is no other choice but that BUT never for taste or as a sport -> this is what i think makes the majority of difference.
如果一个人服用药物或维生素片，他们不能说他们没有从动物的生命中受益。如果谁否认，谁就是伪君子。但我会说，除非对我的生存至关重要，否则我不会杀死动物。即如果我被困在一个岛上，没有其他选择，我会杀生为食，但绝不是为了品尝或作为一种运动，这就是我认为最重要的区别。。
如果一个人服用药物或维生素片，他们不能说他们没有从动物的生命中受益。如果谁否认，谁就是伪君子。但我会说，除非对我的生存至关重要，否则我不会杀死动物。即如果我被困在一个岛上，没有其他选择，我会杀生为食，但绝不是为了品尝或作为一种运动，这就是我认为最重要的区别。。
I have killed insects with no second thot at all... but when I really think about it it takes me into this phylosophical pit of "How do u judge what to kill or what not to kill" or "Death of which being deserves your remorse and sympathy"... i wont talk abt it but i hav thot deeply about these things and have made a sort of my own set of principles that I now live by.
我曾毫不犹豫地杀死昆虫……但当我真正思考它时，它把我带进了这个哲学的深渊:“你如何判断什么该杀，什么不该杀”或“谁的死亡值得你的悔恨和同情”……我不想谈论这些，但我对这些事情进行了深入的思考，并制定了一套自己的生活准则。
我曾毫不犹豫地杀死昆虫……但当我真正思考它时，它把我带进了这个哲学的深渊:“你如何判断什么该杀，什么不该杀”或“谁的死亡值得你的悔恨和同情”……我不想谈论这些，但我对这些事情进行了深入的思考，并制定了一套自己的生活准则。
Jy_sunny
Buddy you can get B12 from nutritional yeast, soy milk, or by taking a supplement. Some reports say mustard seeds have B12, though I’m not sure.
兄弟，你可以从营养酵母、豆奶或服用补充剂中获得B12。一些报道说芥菜籽含有B12，但我不确定。
Buddy you can get B12 from nutritional yeast, soy milk, or by taking a supplement. Some reports say mustard seeds have B12, though I’m not sure.
兄弟，你可以从营养酵母、豆奶或服用补充剂中获得B12。一些报道说芥菜籽含有B12，但我不确定。
Better to go vegan, as the dairy industry directly sources the beef industry. It’s super cruel.
最好是成为素食主义者，因为乳制品行业直接来源于牛肉行业。而它是非常残酷的。
最好是成为素食主义者，因为乳制品行业直接来源于牛肉行业。而它是非常残酷的。
TheFakeProphet
Thanks, its been a while since i upxed my info on this... I will surely read up and try to switch if there are good alternatives.
谢谢，我已经有一段时间没有更新这方面的信息了……如果有更好的选择，我一定会仔细阅读，并尝试转换。
Thanks, its been a while since i upxed my info on this... I will surely read up and try to switch if there are good alternatives.
谢谢，我已经有一段时间没有更新这方面的信息了……如果有更好的选择，我一定会仔细阅读，并尝试转换。
shree_new
I completely agree with what you said. I was vegetarian before because my family was one. Now, I feel like hurting any animal for food when you have other nutritional alternatives is a bad thing, and I am vegetarian by choice currently. Milk is important part of my diet and I couldn't find anything which could replace it and is as cheap. Also, it is impractical to do so when you are still not financially independent. We do kill insects instinctively and drawing parallels between this and not eating meat because I care about animals pushes me into a confused kind of state; I do care about animals but I hate mosquitoes and cockroaches. I have no answer to this thought.
我完全同意你所说的。我以前是因为我的家人是素食者才成为素食者的。现在，我觉得当你有其他营养替代品的时候，伤害任何动物来获取食物是一件坏事，而我现在选择成为素食者。牛奶是我饮食的重要组成部分，我找不到任何东西可以替代它，而且同样便宜。而且，在你还没有经济独立的时候这样做是不切实际的。我们确实会本能地杀死昆虫，并将这与不吃肉相提并论，因为我关心动物，这将我推入一种困惑的状态；我确实关心动物，但我讨厌蚊子和蟑螂。我对这个想法没有答案。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I completely agree with what you said. I was vegetarian before because my family was one. Now, I feel like hurting any animal for food when you have other nutritional alternatives is a bad thing, and I am vegetarian by choice currently. Milk is important part of my diet and I couldn't find anything which could replace it and is as cheap. Also, it is impractical to do so when you are still not financially independent. We do kill insects instinctively and drawing parallels between this and not eating meat because I care about animals pushes me into a confused kind of state; I do care about animals but I hate mosquitoes and cockroaches. I have no answer to this thought.
我完全同意你所说的。我以前是因为我的家人是素食者才成为素食者的。现在，我觉得当你有其他营养替代品的时候，伤害任何动物来获取食物是一件坏事，而我现在选择成为素食者。牛奶是我饮食的重要组成部分，我找不到任何东西可以替代它，而且同样便宜。而且，在你还没有经济独立的时候这样做是不切实际的。我们确实会本能地杀死昆虫，并将这与不吃肉相提并论，因为我关心动物，这将我推入一种困惑的状态；我确实关心动物，但我讨厌蚊子和蟑螂。我对这个想法没有答案。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
blazincannons
You need to switch to veganism if you care that much about animals. You can't justify your consumption of milk just because of vitamin B12. People around the world have been having a fully vegan diet.
如果你那么关心动物，你就得改吃素了。你不能仅仅因为需要维生素B12就证明你喝牛奶是合理的。世界各地的人们一直在吃纯素饮食。
You need to switch to veganism if you care that much about animals. You can't justify your consumption of milk just because of vitamin B12. People around the world have been having a fully vegan diet.
如果你那么关心动物，你就得改吃素了。你不能仅仅因为需要维生素B12就证明你喝牛奶是合理的。世界各地的人们一直在吃纯素饮食。
Either be a vegan or just don't. There is no middle ground. Anything inbetween should purely be for dietary reasons. Don't claim morality when you are chugging a glass of milk everyday, unless you know for sure that the milk is reared from a cow not subjected to any cruelty or exploitation.
要么成为一个纯素食主义者，要么就不要。没有中间地带。任何介于两者之间的食物都是纯粹出于饮食原因。当你每天喝一杯牛奶时，不要宣称道德，除非你确定牛奶是由一头没有受到任何残忍或剥削的奶牛产下的。
要么成为一个纯素食主义者，要么就不要。没有中间地带。任何介于两者之间的食物都是纯粹出于饮食原因。当你每天喝一杯牛奶时，不要宣称道德，除非你确定牛奶是由一头没有受到任何残忍或剥削的奶牛产下的。
Full disclaimer: I am not vegan.
免责声明:我不是素食主义者。
免责声明:我不是素食主义者。
TheFakeProphet
Firstly, When did I claim a moral high ground? Please go and read my comment again.
首先，我什么时候占据了道德高地?请再读一遍我的评论。
Firstly, When did I claim a moral high ground? Please go and read my comment again.
首先，我什么时候占据了道德高地?请再读一遍我的评论。
secondly, it's not healthy to be vegan from a young age. If one enforces his/her vegan belief onto kids, they are basically hindering his growth.
其次，从小就吃素是不健康的。如果一个人把他/她的素食主义信念强加给孩子，他们基本上是在阻碍他的成长。
其次，从小就吃素是不健康的。如果一个人把他/她的素食主义信念强加给孩子，他们基本上是在阻碍他的成长。
A vegan also uses medicine right?... so they also benefit from animals albeit indirectly.
纯素食主义者也服用药物，对吧?所以他们也从动物身上获益，尽管是间接的。
纯素食主义者也服用药物，对吧?所以他们也从动物身上获益，尽管是间接的。
The cow thing I have explained in my comment. The constant impregnation is not good - yes, but if one can care for her and feed her like we used to earlier in exchange for milk, which can cover for our vitamin deficit veg diet, it is the lesser of the other evils i believe. I have seen how cows are treated in my village and i could certainly say they are treated better than most animals...even better than some dog and cats lovers.
我已经在我的评论中解释了关于牛的事情。母牛持续怀孕是不好的——是的，但如果有人能像我们以前那样照顾她，喂养她，以换取牛奶，这可以弥补我们缺乏维生素的蔬菜饮食，我相信这在其他罪恶中是较小的。我在我的村子里见过牛是如何被对待的，我可以肯定地说，牛受到的待遇比大多数动物都好……甚至比一些爱猫爱狗的人还好。
我已经在我的评论中解释了关于牛的事情。母牛持续怀孕是不好的——是的，但如果有人能像我们以前那样照顾她，喂养她，以换取牛奶，这可以弥补我们缺乏维生素的蔬菜饮食，我相信这在其他罪恶中是较小的。我在我的村子里见过牛是如何被对待的，我可以肯定地说，牛受到的待遇比大多数动物都好……甚至比一些爱猫爱狗的人还好。
blazincannons
I am kindly suggesting you to adopt veganism. That's all.
我好心地建议你接受素食主义。就这样。
I am kindly suggesting you to adopt veganism. That's all.
我好心地建议你接受素食主义。就这样。
I understand your point about milk reared in villages. What difference would it make if you are not in your village and cannot guarantee that the milk you obtain is not reared just like how it is done in your village?
我理解你关于在农村养奶的观点。如果你不在你的村庄，无法保证你获得的牛奶不是像在你的村庄那样喂养，这又有什么区别呢?
我理解你关于在农村养奶的观点。如果你不在你的村庄，无法保证你获得的牛奶不是像在你的村庄那样喂养，这又有什么区别呢?
thewebdev
He wasn't talking about vegetarianism but how Hindu and Jains have made a religious virtue of it to convey their purity and superiority over others.
他不是在谈论素食主义，而是印度教徒和耆那教徒如何将素食主义作为一种宗教美德，来传达他们比其他人更加纯洁和优越的想法。
He wasn't talking about vegetarianism but how Hindu and Jains have made a religious virtue of it to convey their purity and superiority over others.
他不是在谈论素食主义，而是印度教徒和耆那教徒如何将素食主义作为一种宗教美德，来传达他们比其他人更加纯洁和优越的想法。
TheFakeProphet
i proposed a different view of why a person can choose to be a vegetarian. He is roping everybody under his lense of scrutiny which is wrong. 70% indians eat meat... so one can easily choose to ignore the biggoted one's. No one is taking the banner of superiority and going on streets to claim veg hindus and jains are superiors.. OP is agitated because its something he is seeing on a daily basis at his home, if he can convince his parents to not be biggoted tht would solve more than half of his agitation. Roping in everybody is not the sensible thing to do.
对于为什么一个人可以选择成为素食者，我提出了不同的观点。他用自己的衡量尺度来审视每个人，这是错误的。70%的印度人吃肉……所以人们很容易地选择忽略大多数人。没有人打着优越的旗号上街宣称素食的印度教徒和耆那教徒是优越的。题主之所以焦躁不安，是因为这是他在家里每天都能看到的事情，如果他能说服他的父母不要太过自大，他的焦躁不安就能解决一半以上。把所有人都扯进来并不是明智的做法。
i proposed a different view of why a person can choose to be a vegetarian. He is roping everybody under his lense of scrutiny which is wrong. 70% indians eat meat... so one can easily choose to ignore the biggoted one's. No one is taking the banner of superiority and going on streets to claim veg hindus and jains are superiors.. OP is agitated because its something he is seeing on a daily basis at his home, if he can convince his parents to not be biggoted tht would solve more than half of his agitation. Roping in everybody is not the sensible thing to do.
对于为什么一个人可以选择成为素食者，我提出了不同的观点。他用自己的衡量尺度来审视每个人，这是错误的。70%的印度人吃肉……所以人们很容易地选择忽略大多数人。没有人打着优越的旗号上街宣称素食的印度教徒和耆那教徒是优越的。题主之所以焦躁不安，是因为这是他在家里每天都能看到的事情，如果他能说服他的父母不要太过自大，他的焦躁不安就能解决一半以上。把所有人都扯进来并不是明智的做法。
thewebdev
No one is taking the banner of superiority and going on streets to claim veg hindus and jains are superiors
When talking about upper caste Hindus and Jain, they do claim and act to be superior.
当谈到高种姓的印度教徒和耆那教时，他们确实这样说，并表现得更优越。
No one is taking the banner of superiority and going on streets to claim veg hindus and jains are superiors
When talking about upper caste Hindus and Jain, they do claim and act to be superior.
当谈到高种姓的印度教徒和耆那教时，他们确实这样说，并表现得更优越。
remind_me_to_pee
Beef is the most resource intensive food, for sure there's a thousand other ways to contribute towards lowering emissions, not eating beef is one of them. Shift to seafood?
牛肉是资源最密集的食物，肯定有一千种其他的方式可以帮助减少排放，不吃牛肉是其中之一。比如换吃海鲜?
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Beef is the most resource intensive food, for sure there's a thousand other ways to contribute towards lowering emissions, not eating beef is one of them. Shift to seafood?
牛肉是资源最密集的食物，肯定有一千种其他的方式可以帮助减少排放，不吃牛肉是其中之一。比如换吃海鲜?
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
zihuatapulco
It's never too late to go vegan.
吃素永远不晚。
It's never too late to go vegan.
吃素永远不晚。
archon1410
it's used by some cruel people to project faux superiority, but that doesn't mean vegans, and vegetarians aren't doing the better thing. as people here themselves say, vegetarianism wasn't a Brahmin thing—it was first adopted by Sramana movements like Buddhism and Jainism, and only later did Brahmins adopt it to project false superiority. this is pointed out by Ambedkar himself.
它被一些残忍的人用来制造虚假的优越感，但这并不意味着纯素食者和素食者没有在做更好的事情。正如这里的人自己所说，素食主义不是婆罗门教的东西——它最初是由佛教和耆那教等沙门运动所实践的，直到后来婆罗门才采用它来表现虚假的优越性。这是由Ambedkar自己指出的。
it's used by some cruel people to project faux superiority, but that doesn't mean vegans, and vegetarians aren't doing the better thing. as people here themselves say, vegetarianism wasn't a Brahmin thing—it was first adopted by Sramana movements like Buddhism and Jainism, and only later did Brahmins adopt it to project false superiority. this is pointed out by Ambedkar himself.
它被一些残忍的人用来制造虚假的优越感，但这并不意味着纯素食者和素食者没有在做更好的事情。正如这里的人自己所说，素食主义不是婆罗门教的东西——它最初是由佛教和耆那教等沙门运动所实践的，直到后来婆罗门才采用它来表现虚假的优越性。这是由Ambedkar自己指出的。
in India, vegetarianism for Buddhists at least does have to do with ethics, they aren't using it to project false superiority. I don't think it would be right to discredit moral things just because they were used by others for wrong purposes.
在印度，至少佛教徒的素食主义确实与道德有关，他们没有利用它来制造虚假的优越感。我不认为仅仅因为道德上的东西被别人用于错误的目的就去诋毁它是正确的。
在印度，至少佛教徒的素食主义确实与道德有关，他们没有利用它来制造虚假的优越感。我不认为仅仅因为道德上的东西被别人用于错误的目的就去诋毁它是正确的。
pilsneryama
If you are a vegetarian by religion and preaching it, you are just preaching your religion.
如果你因为宗教信仰而成为一名素食主义者，你只是在宣扬你的宗教信仰。
If you are a vegetarian by religion and preaching it, you are just preaching your religion.
如果你因为宗教信仰而成为一名素食主义者，你只是在宣扬你的宗教信仰。
domdaddy2022
Well, quite a rant!
好吧，相当的夸夸其谈！
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Well, quite a rant!
好吧，相当的夸夸其谈！
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Personally - my dad has refused to rent his family home to a Mahrashtrian Brahmin family who ate meat. Since my grandfather was a staunch vegetarian and did not want to see his first house have meat cooked inside ( his personal belief) .
就我个人而言，我父亲拒绝把他的房子租给一个吃肉的马哈拉施特拉邦婆罗门家庭。因为我的祖父是一个坚定的素食者，他不想看到他的第一所房子里有人煮肉(他的个人信仰)。
就我个人而言，我父亲拒绝把他的房子租给一个吃肉的马哈拉施特拉邦婆罗门家庭。因为我的祖父是一个坚定的素食者，他不想看到他的第一所房子里有人煮肉(他的个人信仰)。
But I agree - there should be no personal disgust if someone consumes meat. It is their choice to do so. I personally choose not to consume meat since I cannot stand the fact that a living being was killed for my meal. I once had chicken tikka by mistake ( in a restaurant) which served dual - and hence I do not go to non-vegetarian restaurants as much as I can . But usually I will have to go to one in a normal setting since most restaurants serve non-veg food, but I almost always remind them not to bungle up.
但我同意——即便有人吃肉，其他人也不应该产生反感。这是他们的选择。我个人选择不吃肉，因为我无法忍受一个活物被杀掉给我吃。我曾经(在一家餐厅)误吃了烤鸡肉——上错了，因此我会尽可能多地不去非素食餐厅。但通常情况下，我不得不去那些正常配置的餐厅，因为大多数餐厅提供非素食，但我几乎总会提醒他们不要搞错了。
但我同意——即便有人吃肉，其他人也不应该产生反感。这是他们的选择。我个人选择不吃肉，因为我无法忍受一个活物被杀掉给我吃。我曾经(在一家餐厅)误吃了烤鸡肉——上错了，因此我会尽可能多地不去非素食餐厅。但通常情况下，我不得不去那些正常配置的餐厅，因为大多数餐厅提供非素食，但我几乎总会提醒他们不要搞错了。
I am from Kerala and one usually does not find a vegetarian here - PS : We ain't Brahmins so just trying to bust an assumption in the comment.
我来自喀拉拉邦，这里通常找不到素食者。PS:我们不是婆罗门，所以这样说只想打破评论中的一个假设。
我来自喀拉拉邦，这里通常找不到素食者。PS:我们不是婆罗门，所以这样说只想打破评论中的一个假设。
One side of my family does consume meat since being from Kannur, meat is a staple for most families while the other side are almost always vegetarian. So whenever I visit the "meat-eating" side and they order non-vegetarian food, I usually tease em by saying that they just had 'Peter the Prawn' or 'Henry the Hen' just died.
由于来自坎努尔，我们家的一方确实吃肉，肉是大多数家庭的主食，而另一方几乎总是吃素。所以，每当我去“肉食”那一边做客，他们点了非素食的食物时，我通常会取笑他们说，他们刚刚弄死了“虾彼得”或“母鸡亨利”。
由于来自坎努尔，我们家的一方确实吃肉，肉是大多数家庭的主食，而另一方几乎总是吃素。所以，每当我去“肉食”那一边做客，他们点了非素食的食物时，我通常会取笑他们说，他们刚刚弄死了“虾彼得”或“母鸡亨利”。
Eating meat in India is also dependent on location since fish is a staple even among Brahmins in WB.
在印度吃肉也取决于地理位置，因为鱼是主食，甚至在西孟加拉邦的婆罗门中也是如此。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
在印度吃肉也取决于地理位置，因为鱼是主食，甚至在西孟加拉邦的婆罗门中也是如此。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I personally do not see an obxtion to banning meat near temples since there is already an informal policy that meat shops shouldn't be within X meters of a temple. Similar policy with alcohol sale near Mosques and temples.
我个人并不反对在寺庙附近禁止肉类，因为已经有一个非正式的政策，肉类商店不应该在寺庙X米以内出现。清真寺和寺庙附近的酒类销售也有类似政策。
我个人并不反对在寺庙附近禁止肉类，因为已经有一个非正式的政策，肉类商店不应该在寺庙X米以内出现。清真寺和寺庙附近的酒类销售也有类似政策。
Cow is just another animal to me. Though I agree with the hypocrisy of letting cows in the street while killing dalits and muslims for having or not having beef. No cow life is greater than a human life. A person whose belief is to truly preserve the Cow - then they should rather spend their money and energy caring for old cows, cows in shelters and promote more humane ways of treating cows for their products. This should be done instead of starting a pseudo-science cow course and exams.
牛对我来说只是另一种动物。尽管我同意把牛丢到街上溜达，却因为他人吃或不吃牛肉而杀害贱民和穆斯林，是一种伪善的做法。任何一头牛的生命都不比一个人的生命更伟大。如果一个人的信念是真正保护奶牛，那么他们应该把钱和精力花在照顾老牛上，照顾收容所里的奶牛，并推广更人道的对待奶牛的方式。我们应该这样做，而不是开设伪科学的奶牛课程和考试。
牛对我来说只是另一种动物。尽管我同意把牛丢到街上溜达，却因为他人吃或不吃牛肉而杀害贱民和穆斯林，是一种伪善的做法。任何一头牛的生命都不比一个人的生命更伟大。如果一个人的信念是真正保护奶牛，那么他们应该把钱和精力花在照顾老牛上，照顾收容所里的奶牛，并推广更人道的对待奶牛的方式。我们应该这样做，而不是开设伪科学的奶牛课程和考试。
For Jains specifically, they have a core belief to harm no life, hence the comparison of meat and no meat is more complex.
特别是对于耆那教徒来说，他们有一个核心信念，就是不伤害生命，因此，肉和非肉的比较就更加复杂了。
特别是对于耆那教徒来说，他们有一个核心信念，就是不伤害生命，因此，肉和非肉的比较就更加复杂了。
While for hindus, the belief is not paramount as many other hindu texts mention beef/pork and other meat products.
而对于印度教徒来说，信仰并不是最重要的，因为许多其他印度教文献提到了牛肉/猪肉和其他肉类产品。
而对于印度教徒来说，信仰并不是最重要的，因为许多其他印度教文献提到了牛肉/猪肉和其他肉类产品。
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