德国人分享：德国人总会在一战/二战电影中发现德国兵以恶人面目出现，会不会心生厌烦？
正文翻译
（图为德剧《我们的父辈》剧照）
（图为德剧《我们的父辈》剧照）
Dumb American here. I just finished watching a WW2 movie and I love war movies in general, but I was curious how modern Germans feel about them. Like does it ever get old or make you feel a some type of way seeing Germans or Nazis as the main evil villain in like 90% of WW1&2 movies?
我是傻呵呵的美国人。我刚看完一部二战片，总的来说我还是很喜欢战争片的，但我很好奇现代德国人对这种电影会作何感受。当你们在90%的一战和二战电影中都会看到德国人或纳粹是主要的邪恶反派，会不会觉得老套了，或是产生某种别的感觉？
我是傻呵呵的美国人。我刚看完一部二战片，总的来说我还是很喜欢战争片的，但我很好奇现代德国人对这种电影会作何感受。当你们在90%的一战和二战电影中都会看到德国人或纳粹是主要的邪恶反派，会不会觉得老套了，或是产生某种别的感觉？
评论翻译
Koh-I-Noor
Almost every German WWII movie shows the soldiers more detailed and nuanced and with some background. Examples are "Die Brücke" (1959), "Stalingrad" (1993) or "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" (2013).
几乎每部德国二战电影都会把士兵表现得更细致、更微妙，而且会给出他的某种背景。例如，"Die Brücke"（1959）（《桥》）、"Stalingrad"（1993）（《斯大林格勒战役》）或 "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"（2013）（《我们的父辈》）。
Almost every German WWII movie shows the soldiers more detailed and nuanced and with some background. Examples are "Die Brücke" (1959), "Stalingrad" (1993) or "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" (2013).
几乎每部德国二战电影都会把士兵表现得更细致、更微妙，而且会给出他的某种背景。例如，"Die Brücke"（1959）（《桥》）、"Stalingrad"（1993）（《斯大林格勒战役》）或 "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter"（2013）（《我们的父辈》）。
Das Boot also belongs on this list. Schindlers List is also nuanced, even though it’s not a german movie.
（回，汉堡）《Das Boot》（即《从海底出击》）也属于你这个片单。《辛德勒的名单》也很微妙，尽管它不是一部德国电影。
（回，汉堡）《Das Boot》（即《从海底出击》）也属于你这个片单。《辛德勒的名单》也很微妙，尽管它不是一部德国电影。
the_little_beer_lady
Even more so, if it's just a side character with no nuance who's only job is to be German, speak a few sentences in German and then never to be seen again. I get if you don't want to cast a native German for your main role, but you will easily find a German actor to come in for half a day of shooting to say two lines in their mother tongue. And while you're at it, maybe have a native speaker check the German lines for errors - how lazy can a production be to not even check the Google translate gibberish they put in their movie for everyone to see? /rant
如果只是一个不存在细微差别的支线角色，那情况只会更严重，他唯一的工作就是演个德国人，说几句德语，然后就此消失。如果你不想让一个土生土长的德国人出演你的主角，我可以理解，但你很容易就能找一个德国演员过来拍摄半天，用他们的母语说两句话。当你这么去做的时候，也许可以让一个以德语为母语的人检查德语台词是否有错误，制作一部影片能有多懒，竟然都不去检查他们放在电影里让所有人看的那些胡言乱语，尽是谷歌里翻译出来的。
Even more so, if it's just a side character with no nuance who's only job is to be German, speak a few sentences in German and then never to be seen again. I get if you don't want to cast a native German for your main role, but you will easily find a German actor to come in for half a day of shooting to say two lines in their mother tongue. And while you're at it, maybe have a native speaker check the German lines for errors - how lazy can a production be to not even check the Google translate gibberish they put in their movie for everyone to see? /rant
如果只是一个不存在细微差别的支线角色，那情况只会更严重，他唯一的工作就是演个德国人，说几句德语，然后就此消失。如果你不想让一个土生土长的德国人出演你的主角，我可以理解，但你很容易就能找一个德国演员过来拍摄半天，用他们的母语说两句话。当你这么去做的时候，也许可以让一个以德语为母语的人检查德语台词是否有错误，制作一部影片能有多懒，竟然都不去检查他们放在电影里让所有人看的那些胡言乱语，尽是谷歌里翻译出来的。
Tazz0405
WW1 movies aren’t always that one dimensional since there is no clear distinction who was bad and who wasn’t.
一战片并不总是那么肤浅，因为没有明确地区分出谁是坏人，谁不是。
WW1 movies aren’t always that one dimensional since there is no clear distinction who was bad and who wasn’t.
一战片并不总是那么肤浅，因为没有明确地区分出谁是坏人，谁不是。
The only movie I can think of that decides to make WW1 black and white and make Germans the bad guys is Wonder Woman.
（回）我能想到的唯一一部决意将一战黑白二分并让德国人成为坏人的电影是《神奇女侠》。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
（回）我能想到的唯一一部决意将一战黑白二分并让德国人成为坏人的电影是《神奇女侠》。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
"I care for all human life, but also fuck every German soldier as brutally as possible for being on the wrong side of the battle.
If they did not wish to die they shouldn't have gotten on the train that forced them to be there.
Also fuck that one sniper - I will crush him with an entire church.
Observe my inconsistent idealism and warped sense of compassion."
（回）"我顾念所有的人的生命，但也会极尽残酷地去杀灭每一个德国士兵，因为他们在这场战斗中站在了错误的一边。
如果他们不想死，那就不该上那列强迫他们上战场的火车。
此外，看我怎么玩残那个狙击手，我会用一整个教堂把他压成渣。
请细品我这前后矛盾的理想主义和扭曲的同情心吧。"
If they did not wish to die they shouldn't have gotten on the train that forced them to be there.
Also fuck that one sniper - I will crush him with an entire church.
Observe my inconsistent idealism and warped sense of compassion."
（回）"我顾念所有的人的生命，但也会极尽残酷地去杀灭每一个德国士兵，因为他们在这场战斗中站在了错误的一边。
如果他们不想死，那就不该上那列强迫他们上战场的火车。
此外，看我怎么玩残那个狙击手，我会用一整个教堂把他压成渣。
请细品我这前后矛盾的理想主义和扭曲的同情心吧。"
I don’t agree with this. My grandpas dad was one of the soldiers back then and he did not want to go but they made him. Also if you were in any way to refuse to go to war for the counrty you’d prob be killed too.
A lot of them did not have a choice to not be on that train that brought them to the battlefield. Maybe you shouldn’t put all of them in the same bag and beat them…
Also I’m not sure why I fee like I have to say this but: Not all Germans are Nazis!
（回）我不同意。我爷爷的父亲在当年是一名士兵，他并不想参战，但他们强迫他去了。此外，如果你以任何方式抗拒为国参战，那你可能也会被处决。
他们中的很多人是没有选择的，不得不坐上那列把他们带向战场的火车。也许你不应该把他们所有人框进同一个模子里，然后一概加以批判...
此外，我也不清楚为什么我感觉我必须说出这句话：不是所有的德国人都是纳粹！
A lot of them did not have a choice to not be on that train that brought them to the battlefield. Maybe you shouldn’t put all of them in the same bag and beat them…
Also I’m not sure why I fee like I have to say this but: Not all Germans are Nazis!
（回）我不同意。我爷爷的父亲在当年是一名士兵，他并不想参战，但他们强迫他去了。此外，如果你以任何方式抗拒为国参战，那你可能也会被处决。
他们中的很多人是没有选择的，不得不坐上那列把他们带向战场的火车。也许你不应该把他们所有人框进同一个模子里，然后一概加以批判...
此外，我也不清楚为什么我感觉我必须说出这句话：不是所有的德国人都是纳粹！
There is one scene where that german guy just randomly shoots other germans. My mother just went " Of course he does that, he is german after all"
（回）有一场戏是，那个德国人在随意射杀其他德国人。我妈妈直接来了一句：“他当然会这么做了，毕竟德国人”
（回）有一场戏是，那个德国人在随意射杀其他德国人。我妈妈直接来了一句：“他当然会这么做了，毕竟德国人”
TorusBorus
I as a German would say that WW2 is the one war where the americans can rightfully claim to be the good guys. Yeah, you may have done things that seem atrocious in hindsight, but I'd try to put it into perspective.
作为一个德国人，我觉得二战是美国人可以理直气壮地自称好人的一场战争。是的，你们可能做过一些在事后看来很残暴的事情，但我还是会尽量用正确的视角看待之。
I as a German would say that WW2 is the one war where the americans can rightfully claim to be the good guys. Yeah, you may have done things that seem atrocious in hindsight, but I'd try to put it into perspective.
作为一个德国人，我觉得二战是美国人可以理直气壮地自称好人的一场战争。是的，你们可能做过一些在事后看来很残暴的事情，但我还是会尽量用正确的视角看待之。
It certainly was not right to detain Japanese civilians, however there was a war being fought with outraging cruelty from the opposing side. Even if the american paranoia that led to those internment camps was unfound it was not without reason. It also was certainly wrong to not reimburse all the damage done to these japanese civilians.
拘留日本（裔）平民当然是不对的，但当时正在打仗，而对方的残忍程度已经很让人震怒了。就算导致这些拘留所出现的美国人民的偏执并没有什么根据，但也不是没有理由的。而对这些日本裔平民造成的所有损失不作赔偿毫无疑问也是错的。
拘留日本（裔）平民当然是不对的，但当时正在打仗，而对方的残忍程度已经很让人震怒了。就算导致这些拘留所出现的美国人民的偏执并没有什么根据，但也不是没有理由的。而对这些日本裔平民造成的所有损失不作赔偿毫无疑问也是错的。
Then again we are human, and we should be allowed to act irrational. We struggle to admit our mistakes, let alone to ask forgiveness. When put under a lot of stress we act irrationally, and those years of war definitely were incredibly stressfull for the civilians and even more so for the soldiers. When a war at the scale and magnitude of WW2 is fought outrocities are inevitable, there will be rapes, massacres and the like, it is simply unavoidable once the war started.
话说回来，我们是人，应该允许我们做出不理性的行为。我们很难承认自己的错误，更不用说请求宽恕了。在被置于巨大的压力之下时，我们的行为方式是不理性的，对平民来说，那些年的战争肯定带来了无法想象的压力，对士兵来说就更是如此了。当一场战争的规模和数量级达到二战的程度时，暴行便不可避免了，会发生强奸、大屠杀之类的事情，一旦战争开打，这些就完全无法避免了。
话说回来，我们是人，应该允许我们做出不理性的行为。我们很难承认自己的错误，更不用说请求宽恕了。在被置于巨大的压力之下时，我们的行为方式是不理性的，对平民来说，那些年的战争肯定带来了无法想象的压力，对士兵来说就更是如此了。当一场战争的规模和数量级达到二战的程度时，暴行便不可避免了，会发生强奸、大屠杀之类的事情，一旦战争开打，这些就完全无法避免了。
What the US did pales by several orders of magnitude in comparison to what the Germans, the Japanese and the Russians did throughout the war (and before the war started). Therefore I as a German am generally fine with the american perspective on WW2. Regarding these Japanese camps it would be a good idea to memorize these, however I think there are a lot more pressing issues within american history than these camps throughout WW2.
和德国人、日本人和俄国人在整个战争期间（以及战争爆发前）的所作所为相比，美国的所作所为就黯然失色了，差了好几个数量级呢。因此，作为一个德国人，我在看待二战中的美国人时，总体上是没有什么意见的。至于日本的那些集中营，铭记这些是很好的做法，但我认为在美国历史上，比二战期间的这些集中营更不容忽视的问题多了去了。
和德国人、日本人和俄国人在整个战争期间（以及战争爆发前）的所作所为相比，美国的所作所为就黯然失色了，差了好几个数量级呢。因此，作为一个德国人，我在看待二战中的美国人时，总体上是没有什么意见的。至于日本的那些集中营，铭记这些是很好的做法，但我认为在美国历史上，比二战期间的这些集中营更不容忽视的问题多了去了。
littleyellowlight
I mean... the vast majority of movies are american. And american productions have a tendency to make the US the hero in these movies. That´s how the US and only the US end up defending the whole planet against invading aliens with superior technology rather then sucking it up and asking the equally well equipped russians and europeans for help in doing so...
我想说的是...绝大多数的这类电影都是美国片。而美国的片子有一种倾向，就是在这些电影中让美国成为英雄。这就是为什么到最后是美国且只有美国在保卫整个地球，在抗击拥有先进科技的外星人的入侵，而不会出现忍气吞声然后向同样装备精良的俄罗斯人和欧洲人寻求帮助的情况...
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I mean... the vast majority of movies are american. And american productions have a tendency to make the US the hero in these movies. That´s how the US and only the US end up defending the whole planet against invading aliens with superior technology rather then sucking it up and asking the equally well equipped russians and europeans for help in doing so...
我想说的是...绝大多数的这类电影都是美国片。而美国的片子有一种倾向，就是在这些电影中让美国成为英雄。这就是为什么到最后是美国且只有美国在保卫整个地球，在抗击拥有先进科技的外星人的入侵，而不会出现忍气吞声然后向同样装备精良的俄罗斯人和欧洲人寻求帮助的情况...
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Plagiatus
Apart from the slightly propagandistic glorification of the Allied powers sometimes (war are horrible crimes from both sides generally), no. The Nazis are the definitive bad guys and should be portrayed as such.
I'm only sad that there aren't more movies that show the American troops as the bad guys in general. Hard to come by these days...
除了偶尔会出现的对盟军略带宣传色彩的美化（总的来说，战争中双方都会犯下可怕的罪行）之外，并不会厌烦。纳粹是确凿无疑的坏人，就应该被描绘成这样。
只是有一点挺让我难过的，即我们没有看到更多将美军塑造成坏人的电影。这年头，这种东西也是很难出现的...
Apart from the slightly propagandistic glorification of the Allied powers sometimes (war are horrible crimes from both sides generally), no. The Nazis are the definitive bad guys and should be portrayed as such.
I'm only sad that there aren't more movies that show the American troops as the bad guys in general. Hard to come by these days...
除了偶尔会出现的对盟军略带宣传色彩的美化（总的来说，战争中双方都会犯下可怕的罪行）之外，并不会厌烦。纳粹是确凿无疑的坏人，就应该被描绘成这样。
只是有一点挺让我难过的，即我们没有看到更多将美军塑造成坏人的电影。这年头，这种东西也是很难出现的...
_eg0_
In WWII movies it would be strange to see the Nazis not as the villains. I wouldn't be tired of the Nazis being the villains, I would be burned out from WWII movies instead.
But what I don't like is every German being an one dimensional Nazi.
WWI is a different story. There weren't really any good guys when it comes to the big players, so only making the Germans evil one dimensional villains, basically Nazis WWI edition, and the British good guys for example feels lazy. Having them as the enemies from an Anglosphere perspective makes sense.
在二战电影中，如果你发现纳粹不是反派，那就很奇怪了吧。纳粹成为反派不会让我感到厌倦，反而是二战电影让我失去了兴趣。
但我不喜欢的是，每个德国人都被塑造成了那种很肤浅的纳粹。
一战的情况就不同了。说到几大参战国，其实真没有哪一国是好人，所以只把德国人塑造成邪恶且肤浅的反派（本质上就是一战版本的纳粹），而把英国人塑造成好人，就会给人偷懒的感觉了。而从英语国家的角度来看，把他们拍成敌人也是说得通的。
In WWII movies it would be strange to see the Nazis not as the villains. I wouldn't be tired of the Nazis being the villains, I would be burned out from WWII movies instead.
But what I don't like is every German being an one dimensional Nazi.
WWI is a different story. There weren't really any good guys when it comes to the big players, so only making the Germans evil one dimensional villains, basically Nazis WWI edition, and the British good guys for example feels lazy. Having them as the enemies from an Anglosphere perspective makes sense.
在二战电影中，如果你发现纳粹不是反派，那就很奇怪了吧。纳粹成为反派不会让我感到厌倦，反而是二战电影让我失去了兴趣。
但我不喜欢的是，每个德国人都被塑造成了那种很肤浅的纳粹。
一战的情况就不同了。说到几大参战国，其实真没有哪一国是好人，所以只把德国人塑造成邪恶且肤浅的反派（本质上就是一战版本的纳粹），而把英国人塑造成好人，就会给人偷懒的感觉了。而从英语国家的角度来看，把他们拍成敌人也是说得通的。
I'd argue there are some movies that depict German soldiers not necessarily as the "bad guys" but more as victims of surrounding circumstances. Take "das Boot" for example.
（回）我会主张，有一些电影不一定是把德国士兵描绘成了“坏人”，更多是把他们描绘成了周围环境的受害者。《从海底出击》就是一个例子。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
（回）我会主张，有一些电影不一定是把德国士兵描绘成了“坏人”，更多是把他们描绘成了周围环境的受害者。《从海底出击》就是一个例子。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
This has a lot to do with perspective, too. Also German movies are more about the German perspective and how evil and dangerous the ideology is, meanwhile American and Russian movies forcus on how evil Nazis themselves are.
（回）这和视角的关系也很大。此外，德国电影更多是聚焦于德国人的视角以及这种意识形态是多么邪恶、多么危险，而美国和俄罗斯的电影强调的则是纳粹本身是多么多么邪恶。
（回）这和视角的关系也很大。此外，德国电影更多是聚焦于德国人的视角以及这种意识形态是多么邪恶、多么危险，而美国和俄罗斯的电影强调的则是纳粹本身是多么多么邪恶。
IL0veGoodMemes
I don‘t get tired of it because it‘s a fact that germans were the bad guys in WW2
我没感觉到厌倦，因为德国人在二战中就是坏人，事实如此。
I don‘t get tired of it because it‘s a fact that germans were the bad guys in WW2
我没感觉到厌倦，因为德国人在二战中就是坏人，事实如此。
creimanlllVlll
That all may be true but over 70 years later it’s tiresome that in every story it’s brought up over and over again. It’s boring as “entertainment” American here, and all the genocides that we have in our past are just forgotten.
这可能都是事实，但在七十多年后的今天，在每一个故事中都被反复提起，就挺烦人了。作为“娱乐”，这样搞就很无聊了，我是美国人，而我们在过去发生的所有种族灭绝事件却都被遗忘了。
That all may be true but over 70 years later it’s tiresome that in every story it’s brought up over and over again. It’s boring as “entertainment” American here, and all the genocides that we have in our past are just forgotten.
这可能都是事实，但在七十多年后的今天，在每一个故事中都被反复提起，就挺烦人了。作为“娱乐”，这样搞就很无聊了，我是美国人，而我们在过去发生的所有种族灭绝事件却都被遗忘了。
ViolettaHunter
The obsession with Nazis that Hollywood seems to have has become very annoying to me. Every American tv show seems to have at least one obligatory Nazi episode, no matter how crazy that seems for the show's actual setting. I usually skip these episodes, because they are full of ridiculous stereotypes and the actors playing "Germans" absolutely butcher their German dialog. It makes my ears bleed.
好莱坞对纳粹题材的痴迷好像已经烦到我了。这类题材中的每一部美剧似乎都会强制插入至少一段的纳粹情节，不管这种做法放在该剧设定的真实背景中是多么得无厘头。我通常都会跳过这些情节，因为其中充斥着可笑的刻板印象，饰演“德国人”的演员绝对会为你奉上很蹩脚的德语对话。我的耳朵都听流血了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The obsession with Nazis that Hollywood seems to have has become very annoying to me. Every American tv show seems to have at least one obligatory Nazi episode, no matter how crazy that seems for the show's actual setting. I usually skip these episodes, because they are full of ridiculous stereotypes and the actors playing "Germans" absolutely butcher their German dialog. It makes my ears bleed.
好莱坞对纳粹题材的痴迷好像已经烦到我了。这类题材中的每一部美剧似乎都会强制插入至少一段的纳粹情节，不管这种做法放在该剧设定的真实背景中是多么得无厘头。我通常都会跳过这些情节，因为其中充斥着可笑的刻板印象，饰演“德国人”的演员绝对会为你奉上很蹩脚的德语对话。我的耳朵都听流血了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Tristana-Range
Im just so fucking sick of this: when i mention that im german, foreigners instantly start to say stuff about hitler. I hate this topic because i dont want to be associated with it and its always the same shit.
我是真TMD受够了：当我提到我是德国人时，外国人立马就会开始扯希特勒的事情。我讨厌这个话题，因为我不想和它联系在一起，而且他们颠来倒去说的都是同一套话。
Im just so fucking sick of this: when i mention that im german, foreigners instantly start to say stuff about hitler. I hate this topic because i dont want to be associated with it and its always the same shit.
我是真TMD受够了：当我提到我是德国人时，外国人立马就会开始扯希特勒的事情。我讨厌这个话题，因为我不想和它联系在一起，而且他们颠来倒去说的都是同一套话。
blutfink
I don’t identify with them. They’re like Ghengis Khan’s horde to me, they’re the baddies. I just happen to understand their words.
我对他们没有认同感。对我来说，他们就像成吉思汗的部落，他们是坏蛋来着。我只是碰巧听得懂他们说的话。
I don’t identify with them. They’re like Ghengis Khan’s horde to me, they’re the baddies. I just happen to understand their words.
我对他们没有认同感。对我来说，他们就像成吉思汗的部落，他们是坏蛋来着。我只是碰巧听得懂他们说的话。
Tartessos_Sr
Im not tired of seeing Germany or german soldiers as the villains. But Im fucking tired of always seeing America as the good guys that save the world. More self reflection Hollywood. America is destroying more than saving.
（汉堡）看到德国或德国士兵成为恶人并不会让我厌倦。但我TMD厌倦了总是把美国塑造成拯救世界的好人。好莱坞多做点自我反思吧。美国毁掉的，可是超过了美国拯救的。
Im not tired of seeing Germany or german soldiers as the villains. But Im fucking tired of always seeing America as the good guys that save the world. More self reflection Hollywood. America is destroying more than saving.
（汉堡）看到德国或德国士兵成为恶人并不会让我厌倦。但我TMD厌倦了总是把美国塑造成拯救世界的好人。好莱坞多做点自我反思吧。美国毁掉的，可是超过了美国拯救的。
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