网帖翻译

MakesNoCensorship
The latter. Gratitude shouldn't be reserved for strangers doing something nice for you. Yeah, it's kinda expected that family & friends would help out and support you, within reason (and vice versa). But it feels good to be recognized and appreciated for the things you do to make others feel good. Recognition and reciprocity, not entitlement and taking for granted.

后者。为你做了暖心事的陌生人，对TA的感激之情是不应该克制的。是的，在合理范围内，会有点期待家人和朋友为你排忧解难乃至支持你（反之亦然）。但如果你做的事情让别人感觉良好，那么被赞赏被感激的感觉也是很好的。是赞赏和互惠，而不是有权得到并认为理所当然。

That's a good point. But someone could reply (1) "We have other ways to express our gratitude: smiles, compliments, kind acts..." and (2) "If you say "Thank you" for everything then these words lose most of their meaning". I find the point 2 better than the 1.

（回）说得好。但别人也可以这样回答你：
1）“我们另有表达感激之情的方式：微笑、赞美、善意的行为...”
2）“如果每件事你都说“谢谢”，那么这些话就丧失了一大半的意涵”。
我觉得第2点比第1点更有说服力。

I disagree. I don't believe frequency and sincerity are mutually exclusive. Why does "thank you" lose its meaning more than any of the other words we use to communicate? If you judge the ways in which people express their gratitude (unless that way is "not at all," of course) then that's a flawed thought process that you need to deal with.

（层主）我不同意。我不认为频率和真诚是互斥的。为什么“谢谢你”就比我们用来交流的其他任何词语更容易丧失意涵呢？如果你去指摘人们表达感谢的方式（当然了，除非这种方式是“完全不表达”），那就属于有瑕疵的思维过程了，是你需要去处理的。

Obviously there's a factor of nuance that makes it a case-by-case basis. If someone just gives the most dull, unenthused, deadpan "thanks... thanks... thanks..." every time you go out of your way for them, then that's something you need to take up with them in a civil and open-minded manner.

显然，由于“各案例间有细微差别”这个因素的存在，使得这个问题需要具体案例具体分析。如果某人在你每次想尽办法帮他时都只是给出最呆滞、最没有热情、最面无表情的“谢谢...谢谢...谢谢”，那这种情况就需要你用文明且开明的方式和他们交涉了。
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Of course it's better to put more passion behind your gratitude sometimes (maybe a "thank you so much! You're the best!" once in a while). But someone might be a bit afflicted and preoccupied might have a difficult time expressing themselves and being all cheery and animated, but it still doesn't mean their gratitude is any less genuine & heartfelt

当然了，有时候在你的感谢背后投入更多热情会更好（也许时不时来一句“太感谢你了！你最好了！”）。但也许会有人内心有点困扰，还有点心事重重，想让他们抒发己见，或是兴高采烈可能会很艰难，但仍然不意味着他们的感激之情就没有那么真诚或发自内心。

If repetitious, monotone thank "you's" are all you're getting from someone and it bothers you, civilly discuss it with them and find out if it's a misunderstanding on your part or something they should be more conscious of or a combination thereof.

如果你从某人那里得到的只有重复而单调的“谢谢你”，而这困扰到了你，那就和他们展开文明的讨论，核实一下这是你的误解，还是他们应该更加注意的事情，或是两者兼有。

I agree with you, frequency and sincerity are not mutually exclusive, and words are not everything.

（回）我同意你的观点，频率和诚意并不互斥，话语也不是一切。

What I meant was that frequency and significance may be inversely proportional: if you thank your mother for passing you the salt, then your "Thank you" will lose the meaning of "I am surprised by your kindness for something that was not due to me and I will return the favour the sooner possible" that would have if you used it only in exceptional cases.
For example, Italians greet saying "ciao", that originally meant "I'm your slave": using it to greet everyone made it lose its meaning.

我的意思是，频率和意义可能是呈反比的：如果你因为你母亲把盐递给了你而道了谢，那你这句“谢谢你”，就会失去只在特殊情况下使用才会自带的“你的善意让我感到意外，因为这不是我应得的，而我会尽快报答你”之意。
举例来说，意大利人在打招呼时说的“ciao”，原意为“我是你的奴隶”，如用这句话问候每一个人，就会失去其意涵。

Again, that's why you should use something like "thank you so much! I can't tell you how much I appreciate you!" for the things that are a lot more significant than passing the salt. It's all in the scenario and inflection.

（层主）这就是为什么在那些比递盐更重大的事情上，你应该使用“太感谢你了！我对你的感激之情无以言表！”这类话语。全都取决于特定的场景和语调变化。

Yes, cultures that say "Thank you" a lot compensate its banalization adding more words, like people that are used to promise things that they won't do ("I swear that I will do it, whatever it takes, and if I will not do it..." and so on). I think that the difference between nothing and "thank you" is more relevant than that between "thank you" and the longest and kindest way to thank. I was wondering what kind of cultures work better (if any): those in which "thank you" is sparely said or those in which it is said dozens of times a day. You've made good points for the latter.

（回）是的，那些把“谢谢你”挂在嘴边的文化，会通过添加更多辞藻来弥补其庸俗化的部分，也就是说，人们会习惯许诺自己不会去做的事情（“我发誓，无论付出多少代价我都会去做的，如果我没有做......”，诸如此类）。我认为，什么都不说和说“谢谢你”之间的区别，要比“谢谢你”和最啰嗦最亲切的道谢方式之间的区别更说明问题。我之前一直在寻思哪种文化更行之有效（如果存在的话）：是那些吝啬说“谢谢你”的文化，还是那些每天说几十遍的文化。你替后者给出了很有说服力的论据。

I get what you're saying. I think a lot of people do have a tendency for "thank you" to slip out subconsciously and disingenuously, just because they're programmed to know that they are "supposed to" say it in that moment, not because they're genuinely grateful. But do other cultures not ever allow themselves to become complacent/"auto pilot" or whatever? A lot of people aren't big on formalities like that at all, which is fine too. They ask (or tell) you to pass the salt, you do, and they don't even look at you or acknowledge you. It's not really such a huge deal imo.

（层主）我明白你的意思。我认为很多人确实存在一种倾向，即他们会下意识且假惺惺地蹦出“谢谢你”，只是因为他们为自己作了设定，他们很清楚在那一刻“应该”说出这句话，而不是因为他们真的心怀感激。但是，其他文化是否从来都不允许自己变得自以为是或是进入“自动驾驶”状态，或是别的什么？很多人根本就不重视这类礼节，这样也没什么问题。他们要求（或告诉）你把盐递给他们，你做了，而他们连看都不看你一眼，也不向你道谢。在我看来，这也没什么大不了的。

Unless people are really being rude/indifferent ingrates for you doing some huge, significant things for them, then let each individual decide how formal and ass-kissy they are, without feeling entitled to their acknowledgement for every little thing. I always find it funny when people say Americans don't have any culture like it's an insult lol. I'd rather spend my time how I want to, and not dress up in dragon suits and dance around and wear certain attires on certain holidays just because my ancestors did.

除非人们因为你为他们做了一些意义重大的事情而表现出真正的粗鲁/冷漠，不如就让每个人自己去决定他们有多合乎礼仪，有多曲意逢迎吧，也不要觉得每件小事都有权得到别人的感谢。当人们说美国人完全没有文化的时候，我总是觉得好笑，搞得好像这是种侮辱似的，呵呵。我更愿意随心所欲地过活，而不会仅仅因为我的祖先这么干过，就在特定的节日里穿上绣有龙的服装，到处起舞，乃至穿上特定的服饰。

I find your American point of view really interesting. My girlfriend (Chinese) and me (Italian) are trying to create a common culture taking the best from others, and your "American" way of thanking is a viable option. I wonder if it is actually possible for a culture to follow proficiently the rule that you propose ("Everyone is free to thank when he wants, no one expects to be thanked for everything): wouldn't it cause misunderstandings and avoidable conflicts? Can basic things like greeting, thanking and apologizing be personal and not generically shared by all the members of a society? I mean, if 25% always say "thank you", 50% sometimes and 25% seldom this may cause troubles in the long run in a society, until people will adapt (in order to conform to social expectations) to say always "Thank you" or just in exceptional cases. This is perhaps why we find cultures in which thanking parents is considered rude and others in which not to thank them is considered rude, and not cultures that lay in the middle (but maybe they exist, I would like to know).

（回）我觉得你的美式观点真的很有意思。我女朋友（华人）和我（意大利人）正试图打造出一种共同的文化，互相吸取各自文化中最精华的部分，而你的“美式”致谢是一种切实可行的选项。我很想知道某种文化是否真的有可能娴熟地遵循你提出的这套规则（“每个人都可以在他想致谢的时候自由地致谢，而不会有人指望在每件事上都得到感谢）：这难道不会引发误解和本来可以避免的冲突吗？像问候、感谢和道歉这类很基本的事情是否可以是个人化的，而不成为一个社会所有成员的通用规则？我的意思是，如果有25%的人总是说“谢谢”，50%的人偶尔会说，而25%的人很少会说，那从长远看，这可能会在社会中造成麻烦，直到人们适应（为了合乎社会的期待）了把“谢谢”挂在嘴边或只在特殊情况下使用。这也许就是为什么我们会发现在某些文化中，感谢父母被认为是失礼的，而在另一些文化中，不感谢父母被认为是失礼的，就没有处于中间状态的文化（但也许这样的文化也是存在的，我很想知道）。

brock_lee
I assume it's just because I was raised in a culture like the latter, but it seems strange that friends would not expect an acknowledgement of doing something for you.

我想这只是因为我是在后者那样的文化中长大的，但是，朋友们不会指望因为替你做了什么事而被感谢，这貌似还挺奇怪的。

Rxton
If you are really my friend, you won't think me rude regardless of which I do. You'll understand me.
I suppose friendship could be asymmetrical.

如果你真的是我的朋友，那无论我做了什么，你都不会觉得我失礼。你会理解我的。
我想友谊也可以是不对等的。

ChadweenaThundervag
When in Rome

入乡随俗就好。

BoundlessBureaucracy
both have their points honestly so it's hard to say
for me it's Italian because I'm person of this culture

说实话，两者都有其道理，所以这事很难说。
我的话会选意大利，因为我就来自这个文化。

Quityurgriping
They both make sense

这俩都说得通。

PM_ME_PARR0TS
Both of them make sense. Neither's obxtively better. It's all just about following whichever rules everyone's agreed on.

两者都说得通。客观上看，没有哪个更好。关键就是去遵循所有人都认可的那套规则。

Sorry, I did not express clearly the question: I meant to say "Which functionally makes more sense". Which one (if anyone) is more effective in building a functional community. In other terms: if you had to create a new culture, which one would you choose?

（楼主）对不起，这个问题我没有表达清楚。我的本意是：“从功能角度看，哪种更合理”。在建立一个功能性社区时，哪种（如果存在的话）更有效。换句话说：如果你不得不打造一种新的文化，你会选择哪一种？

Tbh even though I tend to say "thanks" as much as that Italian, I'd actually pick the more-reserved Chinese option if I could.
Comfortable silence is nice. Less small talk isn't a bad thing.
And maybe people would show their gratitude in meaningful, physical ways more often.

（层主）老实说，尽管我倾向于像意大利人那样高频地说“谢谢”，但如果有条件，我其实还是会选择中国人那种更内敛的选项。
让人舒服的沉默是很美好的。少一些闲扯也并不是坏事。
也许，人们可以更频繁地选用有意义、肢体动作的方式来致谢。

Yes, that is a very good point for the Chinese option, but there is a possible problem: do people remember to show gratitude to others if they are not educated to do something easy but meaningful (in a word: symbolical)? I agree with you that reciprocating is the best way to thank someone, but it requires maybe too much effort and attention from everyone's everyday life. Maybe a symbolical (and often automatic) gesture continually done is better than another meaningful but not so constant. I don't know.

（楼主）是的，对于中国人的选择来说，这是一条非常好的论据，但可能会出现一个问题：如果没有教导人们去做简单但有意义的事情（简单说就是象征性的事情），那人们还会记得要对别人表示感谢吗？我同意你的观点，报答确实是感谢别人的最好方式，但这可能需要在每个人的日常生活中付出过多的努力和关注。也许频繁地摆出某种象征性的（通常是下意识的）姿态，要比另一种富有意义但发生频率不那么高的姿态更理想？我也说不好。

__daco_
I've always liked the eastern cultures, they seem so much more refined, fancy and purposeful. I love my country and culture, Germany, but compared to some of the eastern, Chinese and Japanese, ways of living the westerners look kind of barbaric and blunt.

我一直很喜欢东方文化，它们看上去更雅致，更华美，也更有目的性。我爱我的国家（德国）和文化，但和那些东方人相比，和中国人、日本人的生活方式相比，西方人看上去有点野蛮、生硬。

In this case, as far as I know, Japanese are more like Italians: you have to say "thank you" to your parents and friends. By the way, in Germany you thank for every little thing as in Italy, don't you?

（回）在这个语境中，据我所知，日本人更像意大利人：你必须对你的父母和朋友说“谢谢”。顺便说一句，在德国，你们也像意大利人那样，要在每件小事上致谢，不是吗？

TRANSparent-Ink
I dont think its a general "one is right the other is wrong " kind of thing. It depends on every individual and their specific preferences. I dont really like people thanking me but i still thank others outside of my closest circle.
I don't think how you say thank you needs to be cultural it should be individual.

我不认为这是“一个对，另一个错”（总体而言）的那种问题。要取决于每个个体和他们的特定偏好。我不太喜欢别人感谢我，但我还是会向我最亲密的圈子以外的人道谢。
我不认为致谢的方式需要成为文化的一部分，应该是属于私领域的。

That could be, and a culture in which saying thank you is individual would be an interesting culture, but in the cultures that I know saying thank you or not is not really an option: if you thank your parents for the dinner in China you are seriously insulting them; while if you don't thank others in Italy you will soon be an outcast

（回）可能吧，如果在一种文化中，说“谢谢”属于个人行为，那这种文化就挺有趣了，但在我所了解的文化中，说不说谢谢谈不上是一种选择：在中国，如果你感谢父母为你做的晚餐，你就是在严重侮辱他们；而在意大利，如果你不感谢别人，你很快就会成为弃儿。

_unknown_username
In some other European countries the thank you is implied, and saying ‘Thank You’ makes the request seen as begging.
When I was travelling and found myself in Malta I was told about it by some of the locals.

其他一些欧洲国家是用暗示来致谢的，明着说“谢谢”，则那个请求就会被看成乞求。
当时我旅行到了马耳他，几个当地人告诉了我这一点。