你们国家的民族主义者最喜欢美化追捧你们历史上哪个时期？
正文翻译
What historical period do nationalists romanticize in your country?
你们国家的民族主义者最喜欢美化追捧你们历史上哪个时期？
What historical period do nationalists romanticize in your country?
你们国家的民族主义者最喜欢美化追捧你们历史上哪个时期？
评论翻译
(看起来并不是一个非常令人向往的结果)。
这就是为什么我国大多数民族主义者并不是美化纳粹时代，而是美化德意志第二帝国（1871-1918）时代。
看看德帝国有多大，多强大! 几乎是欧洲的一个霸主!
特别是威廉一世在位，奥托-冯-俾斯麦作为他的帝国首相执政的那段时期被美化。
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它被看作是一个由具有理性和远见的人统治的时代，导致德国在文化和科学方面处于领先地位，是拥有最现代化社会福利的国家，有最强大的军队和繁荣的工业。正如民族主义作家约阿希姆-费尔瑙所说，那是"我们的伯里克利时代"。
在德国有很多人认为，如果第一次世界大战能够避免，德国现在就会像英国一样成为一个伟大的民主君主国，而且在文化和科学方面仍然领先，德语将成为受过教育的人的国际语言，是德国而不是美国将成为世界上的领导国家。
这些人大多不关心（或进行辩解）德皇统治下的社会有着严格的等级制度，人口中的异议部分（社会民主党人、天主教徒、少数民族、希望与男性享有同等权利的妇女等）受到压迫，甚至像海因里希-曼这样的同时代人也看到，整个系统是建立在一种服从精神（Untertanengeist）之上的，这也导致了独裁性格的盛行。
图片：居鲁士大帝，来自《文明六》。
2.革命前的波斯/巴列维王朝时期的伊朗帝国
由于最近对现政权和伊朗伊斯兰共和国的失望，前政权统治下的革命前伊朗的浪漫化形象在公众的想象中变得非常突出。波斯民族主义者将礼萨-沙阿和他的儿子视为民主、自由、工业化、平等、正义、道路、墙壁、勺子以及极其可能是推特的带来者，并将其视为浪漫。
与他们对古代波斯的看法一样，他们将伊朗革命（后来被称为伊斯兰革命）视为伊朗的衰落和现代波斯辉煌时代的结束。
图片：革命前电影的海报。属于一种叫做"Filmfarsi "的奇怪历史类型。
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Johannes Walter
I am German.
Many would think, that German nationalists romaticize the 12 years of the NS regime, and while there are surely some who do, this time is tainted not only by the crimes of the Nazis (which an admirerer could try to explain away or totally deny), but also the total defeat after the Second World War:
(Not looking like a really desireable outcome.)
That is, why most nationalists in my country romanticize not the NS era, but the Kaiserreich, the Second German Empire (1871 - 1918):
Just look how big and mighty the Kaiserreich was! Almost an hegemon in Europe!
Especially the time when Wilhelm I. reigned and Otto von Bismarck gouverned as his Reichskanzler, is romanticized.
It is seen as a time in which Germany was ruled by people wich reason and foresight, leading to a Germany which was leading in culture and science, had the most modern social welfare state, the greatest army and a booming industry. As the nationalist writer Joachim Fernau called it, it was “our Periclean era”.
There are many people in Germany who think if the First World War could have been avoided, Germany would be now a great democratic monarchy just as Great Britian, but still leading in culture and science, German would be the international language of educated people and Germany, not the USA would be the leading country in the world.
Those people mostly don’t care (or explain away), that the society of the Kaiserreich was strictly hierachic, dissenting parts of the population (Social Democrats, Catholics, national minorities, women who wanted the same rights as men, etc.) were oppressed and even contemporaries like Heinrich Mann saw, that the whole system was built on a subservant spirit (Untertanengeist), which led to a prence ot the authoritarian personality.
我是德国人。
很多人会认为德国的民族主义者会美化纳粹政权的12年，虽然肯定有一些人是这样的，但这段时间不仅被纳粹的罪行所玷污（崇拜者可以试图解释或完全否认），而且还被二战后的彻底失败所打击。
I am German.
Many would think, that German nationalists romaticize the 12 years of the NS regime, and while there are surely some who do, this time is tainted not only by the crimes of the Nazis (which an admirerer could try to explain away or totally deny), but also the total defeat after the Second World War:
(Not looking like a really desireable outcome.)
That is, why most nationalists in my country romanticize not the NS era, but the Kaiserreich, the Second German Empire (1871 - 1918):
Just look how big and mighty the Kaiserreich was! Almost an hegemon in Europe!
Especially the time when Wilhelm I. reigned and Otto von Bismarck gouverned as his Reichskanzler, is romanticized.
It is seen as a time in which Germany was ruled by people wich reason and foresight, leading to a Germany which was leading in culture and science, had the most modern social welfare state, the greatest army and a booming industry. As the nationalist writer Joachim Fernau called it, it was “our Periclean era”.
There are many people in Germany who think if the First World War could have been avoided, Germany would be now a great democratic monarchy just as Great Britian, but still leading in culture and science, German would be the international language of educated people and Germany, not the USA would be the leading country in the world.
Those people mostly don’t care (or explain away), that the society of the Kaiserreich was strictly hierachic, dissenting parts of the population (Social Democrats, Catholics, national minorities, women who wanted the same rights as men, etc.) were oppressed and even contemporaries like Heinrich Mann saw, that the whole system was built on a subservant spirit (Untertanengeist), which led to a prence ot the authoritarian personality.
我是德国人。
很多人会认为德国的民族主义者会美化纳粹政权的12年，虽然肯定有一些人是这样的，但这段时间不仅被纳粹的罪行所玷污（崇拜者可以试图解释或完全否认），而且还被二战后的彻底失败所打击。
(看起来并不是一个非常令人向往的结果)。
这就是为什么我国大多数民族主义者并不是美化纳粹时代，而是美化德意志第二帝国（1871-1918）时代。
看看德帝国有多大，多强大! 几乎是欧洲的一个霸主!
特别是威廉一世在位，奥托-冯-俾斯麦作为他的帝国首相执政的那段时期被美化。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
它被看作是一个由具有理性和远见的人统治的时代，导致德国在文化和科学方面处于领先地位，是拥有最现代化社会福利的国家，有最强大的军队和繁荣的工业。正如民族主义作家约阿希姆-费尔瑙所说，那是"我们的伯里克利时代"。
在德国有很多人认为，如果第一次世界大战能够避免，德国现在就会像英国一样成为一个伟大的民主君主国，而且在文化和科学方面仍然领先，德语将成为受过教育的人的国际语言，是德国而不是美国将成为世界上的领导国家。
这些人大多不关心（或进行辩解）德皇统治下的社会有着严格的等级制度，人口中的异议部分（社会民主党人、天主教徒、少数民族、希望与男性享有同等权利的妇女等）受到压迫，甚至像海因里希-曼这样的同时代人也看到，整个系统是建立在一种服从精神（Untertanengeist）之上的，这也导致了独裁性格的盛行。
Alistair R. Thompson
Germany was actually a leading power in Europe at the time thanks in no small part to Bismarck’s Realpolitik. Thanks to its education system, it led the way in scientific research, but as you remarked, there were various issues. I would highlight Bismarck’s Kulturkampf against his Catholic countrymen, the pressure on ethnic minorities like the Poles to adopt the German language and the undue infuence of the Prussian royal family, aristocracy and gentry. To be fair to the Germany of that era, Britain had similar issues in the same sort of era.
德国在当时确实是欧洲的一个领先大国，这在很大程度上要归功于俾斯麦务实的政治。由于其教育体系，它在科学研究方面处于领先地位，但正如你所说的，它也存在各种问题。我想强调的是，俾斯麦对其天主教同胞的 Kulturkampf（1873-1887年罗马天主教会和德国政府之间围绕教育和教职任命权进行的文化斗争） ，对波兰人等少数民族施加压力，要求他们采用德语，以及普鲁士王室、贵族和乡绅的不当影响。为了对那个时代的德国公平起见，英国在同一时代其实也有着类似的问题。
Germany was actually a leading power in Europe at the time thanks in no small part to Bismarck’s Realpolitik. Thanks to its education system, it led the way in scientific research, but as you remarked, there were various issues. I would highlight Bismarck’s Kulturkampf against his Catholic countrymen, the pressure on ethnic minorities like the Poles to adopt the German language and the undue infuence of the Prussian royal family, aristocracy and gentry. To be fair to the Germany of that era, Britain had similar issues in the same sort of era.
德国在当时确实是欧洲的一个领先大国，这在很大程度上要归功于俾斯麦务实的政治。由于其教育体系，它在科学研究方面处于领先地位，但正如你所说的，它也存在各种问题。我想强调的是，俾斯麦对其天主教同胞的 Kulturkampf（1873-1887年罗马天主教会和德国政府之间围绕教育和教职任命权进行的文化斗争） ，对波兰人等少数民族施加压力，要求他们采用德语，以及普鲁士王室、贵族和乡绅的不当影响。为了对那个时代的德国公平起见，英国在同一时代其实也有着类似的问题。
Tony
Re: Bismarck’s Kulturkampf against his Catholic countrymen, Not only his soon to be Catholic countrymen, but also his Catholic neighbours.
Prussia and Austria fell out over the distribution of the spoils from their joint war with Denmark in 1864, and fought a war over it..
The Catholic Austrians were defeated at the 1866 Battle of Königgrätz /Sadowa, leaving Prussia the foremost German state.
Not only the Rhineland but the Catholic states in what is today south Germany, as well as Protestant northern states, joined Prussia in a united Germany.
俾斯麦的Kulturkampf不仅对其天主教同胞实施，还有他的天主教邻居。
普鲁士和奥地利在1864年联合对丹麦的战争中因战利品的分配问题而发生分歧，并为此打了一场战争。
天主教的奥地利人在1866年的赫雷斯/萨多瓦战役中被击败，使普鲁士成为德意志诸国中最重要的国家。
不仅是莱茵地区，今天德国南部的天主教国家以及北部的新教国家都加入了普鲁士，成为统一的德国。
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Re: Bismarck’s Kulturkampf against his Catholic countrymen, Not only his soon to be Catholic countrymen, but also his Catholic neighbours.
Prussia and Austria fell out over the distribution of the spoils from their joint war with Denmark in 1864, and fought a war over it..
The Catholic Austrians were defeated at the 1866 Battle of Königgrätz /Sadowa, leaving Prussia the foremost German state.
Not only the Rhineland but the Catholic states in what is today south Germany, as well as Protestant northern states, joined Prussia in a united Germany.
俾斯麦的Kulturkampf不仅对其天主教同胞实施，还有他的天主教邻居。
普鲁士和奥地利在1864年联合对丹麦的战争中因战利品的分配问题而发生分歧，并为此打了一场战争。
天主教的奥地利人在1866年的赫雷斯/萨多瓦战役中被击败，使普鲁士成为德意志诸国中最重要的国家。
不仅是莱茵地区，今天德国南部的天主教国家以及北部的新教国家都加入了普鲁士，成为统一的德国。
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Lucas Frech
Great Britain, France and America in the late XIX century also had their issues, that would be even more distasteful to a modern liberal than German ones.
The greatest failure of German leadership, in my opinion, is being unable to realise that expansionism and territorial gains are meaningless in the modern era. What it counts is science, technology and an educated workforce. Raw goods and commodities can be bought for cheap in the market from third world countries. But the population you lose at the trenches and the scientists that went to America looking for a better life, those are irreplaceable.
十九世纪末的英国、法国和美国也有他们的问题，对于现代自由主义者来说，这些问题甚至比德国的问题更令人厌恶。
在我看来，德国领导层最大的失败是没有意识到扩张主义和领土收益在现代社会是没有意义的。重要的是科学、技术和受过教育的劳动力。原材料和商品可以在市场上从第三世界国家廉价购买。但是你在战壕里失去的人口和去美国寻找更好生活的科学家，这些都是不可替代的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Great Britain, France and America in the late XIX century also had their issues, that would be even more distasteful to a modern liberal than German ones.
The greatest failure of German leadership, in my opinion, is being unable to realise that expansionism and territorial gains are meaningless in the modern era. What it counts is science, technology and an educated workforce. Raw goods and commodities can be bought for cheap in the market from third world countries. But the population you lose at the trenches and the scientists that went to America looking for a better life, those are irreplaceable.
十九世纪末的英国、法国和美国也有他们的问题，对于现代自由主义者来说，这些问题甚至比德国的问题更令人厌恶。
在我看来，德国领导层最大的失败是没有意识到扩张主义和领土收益在现代社会是没有意义的。重要的是科学、技术和受过教育的劳动力。原材料和商品可以在市场上从第三世界国家廉价购买。但是你在战壕里失去的人口和去美国寻找更好生活的科学家，这些都是不可替代的。
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Raymond Ona
The greatest failure of German leadership, in my opinion, is being unable to realise that expansionism and territorial gains are meaningless in the modern era. What it counts is science, technology and an educated workforce. Raw goods and commodities can be bought for cheap in the market from third world countries.
I don't think it worked that way before WW2
There were few “third world” neutral countries before WW2. Many countries with lots of raw goods and commodities were either colonies of other Great Powers or Great Powers themselves like US and Russia. This is why many Germans were in other countries during the Kaiserriech
“在我看来，德国领导层最大的失败是无法意识到扩张主义和领土收益在现代社会是毫无意义的。重要的是科学、技术和受过教育的劳动力。原材料和商品可以在市场上从第三世界国家廉价购买。”
我不认为二战前是这样的
二战前很少有"第三世界"的中立国家。许多拥有大量原材料和商品的国家要么是其他大国的殖民地，要么是大国本身，如美国和俄罗斯。这就是为什么许多德国人在德皇时期都在其他国家。
The greatest failure of German leadership, in my opinion, is being unable to realise that expansionism and territorial gains are meaningless in the modern era. What it counts is science, technology and an educated workforce. Raw goods and commodities can be bought for cheap in the market from third world countries.
I don't think it worked that way before WW2
There were few “third world” neutral countries before WW2. Many countries with lots of raw goods and commodities were either colonies of other Great Powers or Great Powers themselves like US and Russia. This is why many Germans were in other countries during the Kaiserriech
“在我看来，德国领导层最大的失败是无法意识到扩张主义和领土收益在现代社会是毫无意义的。重要的是科学、技术和受过教育的劳动力。原材料和商品可以在市场上从第三世界国家廉价购买。”
我不认为二战前是这样的
二战前很少有"第三世界"的中立国家。许多拥有大量原材料和商品的国家要么是其他大国的殖民地，要么是大国本身，如美国和俄罗斯。这就是为什么许多德国人在德皇时期都在其他国家。
Michele Iovieno
trenches were not foreseen before 1914 and no scientist was going to America in that period (1871–1918), when Germany was full of resources and opportunities.
The error was to get drawn into a war Germany had no interest in.
在1914年之前，人们并没有预见到堑壕战，而且在那个时期（1871-1918年）没有科学家去美国，当时德国充满了资源和机会。
错误在于被卷入了一场德国毫无利益的战争中。
trenches were not foreseen before 1914 and no scientist was going to America in that period (1871–1918), when Germany was full of resources and opportunities.
The error was to get drawn into a war Germany had no interest in.
在1914年之前，人们并没有预见到堑壕战，而且在那个时期（1871-1918年）没有科学家去美国，当时德国充满了资源和机会。
错误在于被卷入了一场德国毫无利益的战争中。
Caroline Glass
Trenches were used extensively in wars in New Zealand in the late 19th century, so they should have been foreseen.
19世纪末，战壕在新西兰的战争中被广泛使用，所以应该是可以预见的。
Trenches were used extensively in wars in New Zealand in the late 19th century, so they should have been foreseen.
19世纪末，战壕在新西兰的战争中被广泛使用，所以应该是可以预见的。
Gavin Tabor
Also in the American Civil War, which presaged many features of WW1
也出现在了美国内战中，这场战争已经预示了一战的许多特点
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Also in the American Civil War, which presaged many features of WW1
也出现在了美国内战中，这场战争已经预示了一战的许多特点
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Simone Soh
The Maori “pa” were the convenient adaptation of preexisting local methods of war, against British invaders- while they were trenches, they didn't feature the artillery strikes, no-man's-land, and most importantly, they didn't feature machine guns.
The Maori had guns, sure- just like the Chinese, Iranians, Arabs, Mughals, even the Zulus had guns. But they were typically far outranged- and far less accurate- than those used by European armies (and they certainly weren't repeating). The Maori trenches rather acted as a defensive deterrent- resistant to British artillery, protecting the defenders from gunfire- and if the British wanted to take the trenches, they would lose their technological advantage to wind up fighting in close quarters, often facing surprise attacks and melee weapons. But the British faced little to no risk of counter-attack, if they simply left the Maori to their own business.
The Europeans would have been better off learning from the US civil war (that most of them ignored). There the US learnt the same lessons- that the same machine guns they (and every other colonial power) used to massacre natives and rebels with rudimentary firearms so easily with, had the same effect when turned on their own men, that their traditional tactics had to change, and that they really wouldn't like the end result (trench warfare) even if it was better than rushing headfirst into machine gun fire.
毛利人的"pa "是对当地已有的战争方法的随势改造，以对抗英国入侵者--虽然他们是战壕，但他们没有炮击、无人区的特点，最重要的是，他们没有机枪。
毛利人当然有枪，就像中国人、伊朗人、阿拉伯人、莫卧儿人，甚至祖鲁人都有枪。但它们通常比欧洲军队使用的枪支要落后得多，精确度也低得多（而且它们肯定不是连发的）。毛利人的战壕倒是起到了防御性威慑的作用--抵抗英国大炮，保护防御者不受炮火攻击--如果英国人想占领战壕，他们就会失去技术优势而陷入近距离作战，经常面临突袭和近战武器。但是，如果英国人不去管毛利人让他们做自己的事，他们几乎没有面临反击的风险。
欧洲人最应该的是从美国内战中学习（他们中的大多数人都忽视了这一点）。在那里，美国学到了同样的教训--他们（和其他所有殖民国家）用来轻易屠杀土著人和叛乱者的机枪，在转向他们自己的人时也有同样的效果，他们的传统战术必须改变，而且他们真的不会喜欢最终的结果（堑壕战），即使它比一头冲进机枪的火力中要好。
The Maori “pa” were the convenient adaptation of preexisting local methods of war, against British invaders- while they were trenches, they didn't feature the artillery strikes, no-man's-land, and most importantly, they didn't feature machine guns.
The Maori had guns, sure- just like the Chinese, Iranians, Arabs, Mughals, even the Zulus had guns. But they were typically far outranged- and far less accurate- than those used by European armies (and they certainly weren't repeating). The Maori trenches rather acted as a defensive deterrent- resistant to British artillery, protecting the defenders from gunfire- and if the British wanted to take the trenches, they would lose their technological advantage to wind up fighting in close quarters, often facing surprise attacks and melee weapons. But the British faced little to no risk of counter-attack, if they simply left the Maori to their own business.
The Europeans would have been better off learning from the US civil war (that most of them ignored). There the US learnt the same lessons- that the same machine guns they (and every other colonial power) used to massacre natives and rebels with rudimentary firearms so easily with, had the same effect when turned on their own men, that their traditional tactics had to change, and that they really wouldn't like the end result (trench warfare) even if it was better than rushing headfirst into machine gun fire.
毛利人的"pa "是对当地已有的战争方法的随势改造，以对抗英国入侵者--虽然他们是战壕，但他们没有炮击、无人区的特点，最重要的是，他们没有机枪。
毛利人当然有枪，就像中国人、伊朗人、阿拉伯人、莫卧儿人，甚至祖鲁人都有枪。但它们通常比欧洲军队使用的枪支要落后得多，精确度也低得多（而且它们肯定不是连发的）。毛利人的战壕倒是起到了防御性威慑的作用--抵抗英国大炮，保护防御者不受炮火攻击--如果英国人想占领战壕，他们就会失去技术优势而陷入近距离作战，经常面临突袭和近战武器。但是，如果英国人不去管毛利人让他们做自己的事，他们几乎没有面临反击的风险。
欧洲人最应该的是从美国内战中学习（他们中的大多数人都忽视了这一点）。在那里，美国学到了同样的教训--他们（和其他所有殖民国家）用来轻易屠杀土著人和叛乱者的机枪，在转向他们自己的人时也有同样的效果，他们的传统战术必须改变，而且他们真的不会喜欢最终的结果（堑壕战），即使它比一头冲进机枪的火力中要好。
The Monarchist
The German Empire's constitution was one of the most liberal in Europe at the time. Parties were adequately represented in the Bundestag. There was no discrimination against Jews. It was still a modern parliamentary democracy with a constitutional monarchy until WWI happened.
德意志帝国的宪法是当时欧洲最自由的宪法之一。各党派在联邦议院中有充分的代表性。不存在对犹太人的歧视。在一战发生之前，它仍然是一个现代议会民主制的君主立宪制国家。
The German Empire's constitution was one of the most liberal in Europe at the time. Parties were adequately represented in the Bundestag. There was no discrimination against Jews. It was still a modern parliamentary democracy with a constitutional monarchy until WWI happened.
德意志帝国的宪法是当时欧洲最自由的宪法之一。各党派在联邦议院中有充分的代表性。不存在对犹太人的歧视。在一战发生之前，它仍然是一个现代议会民主制的君主立宪制国家。
Lachlan Bowden
I think one of the German Empire's problems leading up to WW1 was that it was too much “monarchy” and insufficient “constitutional”.
我认为，导致一战的德意志帝国的问题之一是它的"君主制"太多，"宪政"成分不足。
I think one of the German Empire's problems leading up to WW1 was that it was too much “monarchy” and insufficient “constitutional”.
我认为，导致一战的德意志帝国的问题之一是它的"君主制"太多，"宪政"成分不足。
Ygor Coelho
It seems to be one of those Golden Ages that unwittingly, unaware or careless about the consequences of their internal contradictions and long-term effects of their excesses, prepared the entire ground for the subsequent decline and destruction. The strong emphasis on order, discipline, militarism, uniformity, faultless perfectionism and strict obedience may have been useful at first, but it was surely going to create troubles when the inevitable time of crisis and tension arrived.
这也是一个那种在不知不觉中，没有意识到或不注意内部矛盾的后果和过度行为的长期影响为随后的衰落和破坏做好了准备的“黄金时代”之一。对秩序、纪律、军国主义、统一性、完美主义和严格服从的强烈强调，起初可能有用，但当不可避免的危机和紧张时刻到来时，它肯定会制造麻烦。
It seems to be one of those Golden Ages that unwittingly, unaware or careless about the consequences of their internal contradictions and long-term effects of their excesses, prepared the entire ground for the subsequent decline and destruction. The strong emphasis on order, discipline, militarism, uniformity, faultless perfectionism and strict obedience may have been useful at first, but it was surely going to create troubles when the inevitable time of crisis and tension arrived.
这也是一个那种在不知不觉中，没有意识到或不注意内部矛盾的后果和过度行为的长期影响为随后的衰落和破坏做好了准备的“黄金时代”之一。对秩序、纪律、军国主义、统一性、完美主义和严格服从的强烈强调，起初可能有用，但当不可避免的危机和紧张时刻到来时，它肯定会制造麻烦。
Florian Laur
Isn't that pretty much true for the UK as well? They didn't become the world power and had the most colonies by being nice (and concentration camps were development in a conflict they were involved in).
They wiped out entire nations!
And Prussia-Germany had some good ideas, wasn't Rente and ALG something Wilhelm started?
英国的情况不也是如此吗？他们成为世界强国和拥有最多的殖民地也不是因为善良（集中营就是在他们参与的冲突中发展起来的）。
他们抹去了整个国家!
而普鲁士-德国也有一些好的想法，Rente（养老金）和ALG（失业救济金）不就是威廉发起的吗？
Isn't that pretty much true for the UK as well? They didn't become the world power and had the most colonies by being nice (and concentration camps were development in a conflict they were involved in).
They wiped out entire nations!
And Prussia-Germany had some good ideas, wasn't Rente and ALG something Wilhelm started?
英国的情况不也是如此吗？他们成为世界强国和拥有最多的殖民地也不是因为善良（集中营就是在他们参与的冲突中发展起来的）。
他们抹去了整个国家!
而普鲁士-德国也有一些好的想法，Rente（养老金）和ALG（失业救济金）不就是威廉发起的吗？
Philip Owen
Not wiped out. Beat in war.
没有消灭。只是在战争中被击败。
Not wiped out. Beat in war.
没有消灭。只是在战争中被击败。
Patton Durio
While I doubt we would all be speaking German, I have to say that from what I've read, Bismark seems to have been a damn good leader.
虽然我怀疑我们都会因此说德语，但我不得不说，从我所读到的内容来看，俾斯麦似乎真的是一个好领导。
While I doubt we would all be speaking German, I have to say that from what I've read, Bismark seems to have been a damn good leader.
虽然我怀疑我们都会因此说德语，但我不得不说，从我所读到的内容来看，俾斯麦似乎真的是一个好领导。
Johannes Walter
German was the language of the academic community until the first half of the 20th century. The idea is that this would have stayed the same until now.
直到20世纪上半叶，德语一直是学术界的语言。我们的想法是，如果第二帝国继续发展，这将一直保持到现在。
German was the language of the academic community until the first half of the 20th century. The idea is that this would have stayed the same until now.
直到20世纪上半叶，德语一直是学术界的语言。我们的想法是，如果第二帝国继续发展，这将一直保持到现在。
André Teissier du Cros
Before 1914 Germany was the California of Europe. WW1 was a catastrophe for Germany and for Europe.
1914年之前，德国是欧洲的加利福尼亚。一战对德国和欧洲来说都是一场灾难。
Before 1914 Germany was the California of Europe. WW1 was a catastrophe for Germany and for Europe.
1914年之前，德国是欧洲的加利福尼亚。一战对德国和欧洲来说都是一场灾难。
Michael Cooke
From an outsider's point of view I would say Germany 's best era is right now. It has finally achieved what it spent a century and numerous wars attempting — to be the undisputed leader of Europe. It is the biggest country in Europe in terms of population and economy. Now that the borders of Europe have shifted eastwards it is now at the centre physically. What's more it has as gone through the darkest most difficult past, learned from it and triumphed. German people are now the most reasonable, rational and liberal people in Europe. Yes they voted in the Nazis, lost world wars, empires, half their European territory, were split up into several different states but they have come through it all. Who can compare? France with its extreme right wing nationalists? UK with its Brexit fantasy? It's no coincidence that when the Syrian refugees came to Europe in 2015 they wanted to go to one country — Germany. And Germany accepted them.
从一个局外人的角度来看，我认为德国最好的时代就是现在。它终于实现了它花了一个世纪和无数次战争试图实现的目标--成为欧洲无可争议的领导者。就人口和经济而言，它是欧洲最大的国家。现在，欧洲的边界已经向东转移，它现在在物理上处于欧洲中心的位置。更重要的是，它经历了最黑暗、最困难的过去，从中吸取了教训并取得了胜利。德国人现在是欧洲最合理、最理性和最自由的人。是的，他们投票选举了纳粹，输掉了世界大战，失去了帝国，丢掉了一半的欧洲领土，被分裂成几个不同的国家，但他们已经度过了这一切。谁能与之相比？法国的极右翼民族主义者？有着脱欧幻想的英国？2015年叙利亚难民来到欧洲时，他们只想去一个国家--德国，这并不是巧合。而德国接受了他们。
From an outsider's point of view I would say Germany 's best era is right now. It has finally achieved what it spent a century and numerous wars attempting — to be the undisputed leader of Europe. It is the biggest country in Europe in terms of population and economy. Now that the borders of Europe have shifted eastwards it is now at the centre physically. What's more it has as gone through the darkest most difficult past, learned from it and triumphed. German people are now the most reasonable, rational and liberal people in Europe. Yes they voted in the Nazis, lost world wars, empires, half their European territory, were split up into several different states but they have come through it all. Who can compare? France with its extreme right wing nationalists? UK with its Brexit fantasy? It's no coincidence that when the Syrian refugees came to Europe in 2015 they wanted to go to one country — Germany. And Germany accepted them.
从一个局外人的角度来看，我认为德国最好的时代就是现在。它终于实现了它花了一个世纪和无数次战争试图实现的目标--成为欧洲无可争议的领导者。就人口和经济而言，它是欧洲最大的国家。现在，欧洲的边界已经向东转移，它现在在物理上处于欧洲中心的位置。更重要的是，它经历了最黑暗、最困难的过去，从中吸取了教训并取得了胜利。德国人现在是欧洲最合理、最理性和最自由的人。是的，他们投票选举了纳粹，输掉了世界大战，失去了帝国，丢掉了一半的欧洲领土，被分裂成几个不同的国家，但他们已经度过了这一切。谁能与之相比？法国的极右翼民族主义者？有着脱欧幻想的英国？2015年叙利亚难民来到欧洲时，他们只想去一个国家--德国，这并不是巧合。而德国接受了他们。
Johannes Walter
Yeah, but tell that to nationalists… They don’t like Germany to be prosperous by being in supra-national entities… ;)
是的，但这话对民族主义者来说没用……他们不希望德国通过超国家实体而繁荣…… ;)
Yeah, but tell that to nationalists… They don’t like Germany to be prosperous by being in supra-national entities… ;)
是的，但这话对民族主义者来说没用……他们不希望德国通过超国家实体而繁荣…… ;)
Michele Iovieno
add the 15% of foreign immigrants and their offspring, an always increasing share of the overall population.
加上15%的外国移民和他们的后代，他们在总人口中的比例一直在增加。
add the 15% of foreign immigrants and their offspring, an always increasing share of the overall population.
加上15%的外国移民和他们的后代，他们在总人口中的比例一直在增加。
Johannes Walter
There was actually a big influx of migrants in the Kaiserreich, too, especially from Eastern Europe.
实际上，在帝国时期也有大量的移民涌入，特别是来自东欧的移民。
There was actually a big influx of migrants in the Kaiserreich, too, especially from Eastern Europe.
实际上，在帝国时期也有大量的移民涌入，特别是来自东欧的移民。
B. Burchette
Had Germany avoided war in 1914 and enjoyed another decade of political and economic stability, I think it’s highly probable she would found herself in a position to dominate the continent economically AND militarily.
Big “if” though.
如果德国在1914年避免了战争，又享受了十年的政治和经济稳定，我想她很可能会发现自己在经济和军事上都能主宰欧洲大陆。
但这是一个很大的脑洞。
Had Germany avoided war in 1914 and enjoyed another decade of political and economic stability, I think it’s highly probable she would found herself in a position to dominate the continent economically AND militarily.
Big “if” though.
如果德国在1914年避免了战争，又享受了十年的政治和经济稳定，我想她很可能会发现自己在经济和军事上都能主宰欧洲大陆。
但这是一个很大的脑洞。
Alan Henrickson
Yes the 1870s - 1900 was a golden era. Science in IG Farben synthesizing ammonia for fertilizers and breaking coal oils for medicines. Expanding sympathetic monarchies such as donating Iola r Palace to King Kalkaua king of Hawaii. Advancing nitrite mining for both armaments and agriculture in northern Chile. The rise of heavy modern steel industry in Germany. The rise of Siemens for electrification.
是的，19世纪70年代至1900年的德国是一个黄金时代。法本公司的科学合成了用于化肥的氨和用于药物的煤油。扩大对君主的同情，如将伊奥拉宫捐赠给夏威夷国王卡尔卡瓦。在智利北部推进用于军备和农业的亚硝酸盐开采。德国现代重型钢铁工业的崛起。西门子在电气化方面的崛起。
Yes the 1870s - 1900 was a golden era. Science in IG Farben synthesizing ammonia for fertilizers and breaking coal oils for medicines. Expanding sympathetic monarchies such as donating Iola r Palace to King Kalkaua king of Hawaii. Advancing nitrite mining for both armaments and agriculture in northern Chile. The rise of heavy modern steel industry in Germany. The rise of Siemens for electrification.
是的，19世纪70年代至1900年的德国是一个黄金时代。法本公司的科学合成了用于化肥的氨和用于药物的煤油。扩大对君主的同情，如将伊奥拉宫捐赠给夏威夷国王卡尔卡瓦。在智利北部推进用于军备和农业的亚硝酸盐开采。德国现代重型钢铁工业的崛起。西门子在电气化方面的崛起。
Luke Hatherton
On a related note, the regency of Prince Luitpold is remembered as a Golden Age in Bavaria, while he ruled in the place of the severely mentally ill king Ludwig III, brother of the famous Ludwig II. He became regent at age 65 and ruled for 26 years, dying in 1912 at age 91. He was the oldest regent in history until 2016.
Bavaria was at peace during Luitpold’s reign and prospered culturally and economically, and liberalism flourished. As with many other ‘golden ages’ of the time, it became viewed as such in particular after WW1.
Although Luitpold unfortunately gave America Donald Trump. In the early 20th Century, Trump’s grandfather returned to Germany from the USA and met and married his wife there. They both wanted to stay in Germany, but because Trump’s grandfather had left Bavaria at age 17 before completing his compulsory military service, he was expelled. He wrote to Luitpold requesting special permission to stay in Bavaria but received no reply. Dammit!
与此相关的是，吕特波尔德亲王的摄政时期被称为巴伐利亚的黄金时代，当时他代替患有严重精神疾病的国王路德维希三世（著名的路德维希二世的弟弟）进行统治。他65岁时成为摄政王，统治了26年，于1912年去世，享年91岁。直到2016年，他都是历史上最年长的摄政王。
在吕特波尔德统治时期，巴伐利亚处于和平状态，文化和经济都很繁荣，自由主义盛行。与当时的许多其他"黄金时代"一样，特别是在一战之后，它被视为是一个黄金时代。
尽管吕特伯德不幸给美国带来了唐纳德-特朗普。20世纪初，特朗普的祖父从美国回到了德国，在那里遇到了他的妻子并结婚。他们都想留在德国，但由于特朗普的祖父在17岁时未完成义务兵役就离开了巴伐利亚，他被驱逐了。他写信给吕特波尔德，请求特别允许他留在巴伐利亚，但没有得到答复。真该死!
On a related note, the regency of Prince Luitpold is remembered as a Golden Age in Bavaria, while he ruled in the place of the severely mentally ill king Ludwig III, brother of the famous Ludwig II. He became regent at age 65 and ruled for 26 years, dying in 1912 at age 91. He was the oldest regent in history until 2016.
Bavaria was at peace during Luitpold’s reign and prospered culturally and economically, and liberalism flourished. As with many other ‘golden ages’ of the time, it became viewed as such in particular after WW1.
Although Luitpold unfortunately gave America Donald Trump. In the early 20th Century, Trump’s grandfather returned to Germany from the USA and met and married his wife there. They both wanted to stay in Germany, but because Trump’s grandfather had left Bavaria at age 17 before completing his compulsory military service, he was expelled. He wrote to Luitpold requesting special permission to stay in Bavaria but received no reply. Dammit!
与此相关的是，吕特波尔德亲王的摄政时期被称为巴伐利亚的黄金时代，当时他代替患有严重精神疾病的国王路德维希三世（著名的路德维希二世的弟弟）进行统治。他65岁时成为摄政王，统治了26年，于1912年去世，享年91岁。直到2016年，他都是历史上最年长的摄政王。
在吕特波尔德统治时期，巴伐利亚处于和平状态，文化和经济都很繁荣，自由主义盛行。与当时的许多其他"黄金时代"一样，特别是在一战之后，它被视为是一个黄金时代。
尽管吕特伯德不幸给美国带来了唐纳德-特朗普。20世纪初，特朗普的祖父从美国回到了德国，在那里遇到了他的妻子并结婚。他们都想留在德国，但由于特朗普的祖父在17岁时未完成义务兵役就离开了巴伐利亚，他被驱逐了。他写信给吕特波尔德，请求特别允许他留在巴伐利亚，但没有得到答复。真该死!
Norbert Korzus
The best way to check if someones view of history is 100% true is to check what their oponents and people who lost that part of history.
A part of Poland was controlled by Germany and yeah our history teaches a lot about the bad parts you mentioned. Doesn’t change the fact that the part of the particioned country controlled by germany benefited economically the most but yeah. Though it’s all comparative. German particion was Way better than the Russian particion for example.
检查某些人的历史观是否100%真实的最好方法是检查他们的对手和丢掉了那部分领土的人的历史。
波兰的一部分被德国控制了，是的，我们的历史教了很多你提到的坏的部分。但这并不能改变被德国控制的那部分在经济上受益最大的事实。虽然这都是比较而言的。比如说，被德国控制的部分就比俄国控制的部分要好得多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The best way to check if someones view of history is 100% true is to check what their oponents and people who lost that part of history.
A part of Poland was controlled by Germany and yeah our history teaches a lot about the bad parts you mentioned. Doesn’t change the fact that the part of the particioned country controlled by germany benefited economically the most but yeah. Though it’s all comparative. German particion was Way better than the Russian particion for example.
检查某些人的历史观是否100%真实的最好方法是检查他们的对手和丢掉了那部分领土的人的历史。
波兰的一部分被德国控制了，是的，我们的历史教了很多你提到的坏的部分。但这并不能改变被德国控制的那部分在经济上受益最大的事实。虽然这都是比较而言的。比如说，被德国控制的部分就比俄国控制的部分要好得多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Rowan R.
True. Unfortunately, Polen was all about power play between Germany and Austria.
确实如此。不幸的是，波兰的情况都是德国和奥地利之间的权力游戏。
True. Unfortunately, Polen was all about power play between Germany and Austria.
确实如此。不幸的是，波兰的情况都是德国和奥地利之间的权力游戏。
Connor Cuevo
They see war as the cause of Imperial Germany’s downfall? And yet they fail to realize that Imperial Germany had been preparing for war on a scale so large, it had become integral to national identity?
他们认为战争是帝国德国衰落的原因？而他们却没有意识到，德意志帝国一直在为战争做准备，其规模之大，已经成为国家认同的组成部分？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
They see war as the cause of Imperial Germany’s downfall? And yet they fail to realize that Imperial Germany had been preparing for war on a scale so large, it had become integral to national identity?
他们认为战争是帝国德国衰落的原因？而他们却没有意识到，德意志帝国一直在为战争做准备，其规模之大，已经成为国家认同的组成部分？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Tom Mcevil
Do nationalists in Bayern also think the Kaiserreich was the golden era?
巴伐利亚的民族主义者也认为德皇时代是黄金时代吗？
Do nationalists in Bayern also think the Kaiserreich was the golden era?
巴伐利亚的民族主义者也认为德皇时代是黄金时代吗？
Johannes Walter
Since the time of the Kaiserreich and the time of Ludwig II. of Bavaria overlap, yes.
Also, the German Nationalists in Bavaria mostly don’t care about Bavaria as a Nation, other than the Bavarian Nationalists…
自从德皇时代和巴伐利亚的路德维希二世时代重合后，是的。
另外，除了巴伐利亚民族主义者之外，巴伐利亚的日耳曼民族主义者大多不关心巴伐利亚这个国家...
Since the time of the Kaiserreich and the time of Ludwig II. of Bavaria overlap, yes.
Also, the German Nationalists in Bavaria mostly don’t care about Bavaria as a Nation, other than the Bavarian Nationalists…
自从德皇时代和巴伐利亚的路德维希二世时代重合后，是的。
另外，除了巴伐利亚民族主义者之外，巴伐利亚的日耳曼民族主义者大多不关心巴伐利亚这个国家...
Tom Mcevil
thanks. So are there many Bavarian Nationalists who romanticise early 1800s when Bayern was an independent kingdom more than Kaiserreich? I have been to Bayern and I remember in a souvenir shop, they were selling little teddy bear wearing blue and white cap.
谢谢。那么，是否有许多巴伐利亚民族主义者追捧19世纪初仍是一个独立王国的巴伐利亚，而不是德意志帝国？我曾经去过慕尼黑，我记得在一家纪念品商店里，他们正在出售戴着蓝白帽子的小泰迪熊。（注：蓝白是巴伐利亚国旗颜色）
thanks. So are there many Bavarian Nationalists who romanticise early 1800s when Bayern was an independent kingdom more than Kaiserreich? I have been to Bayern and I remember in a souvenir shop, they were selling little teddy bear wearing blue and white cap.
谢谢。那么，是否有许多巴伐利亚民族主义者追捧19世纪初仍是一个独立王国的巴伐利亚，而不是德意志帝国？我曾经去过慕尼黑，我记得在一家纪念品商店里，他们正在出售戴着蓝白帽子的小泰迪熊。（注：蓝白是巴伐利亚国旗颜色）
Vijay
Wilhelm’s II ‘s father Prince Frederick William of Prussia was a liberal, and had no militaristic tendencies. If he had survived, Germany would not have started WW1. Wilhelm’s II , when he was born had a traumatic birth, which was compounded by putting the infant in iron bars for the next 5 years, on the mistaken advice of the royal doctors. This “treatment” left a vengeful attitude on the world for Wilhelm 2 throughout his life and he did not get his mother’s affection. In social and economic policies, German of 1871–1910 was better than Britain or France or US. The First World war pulled Germany down towards the abyss which Hitler skillfully completed.
If WW1 had not happened, Germany’s cultural influence on the world would be much more now.
威廉二世的父亲普鲁士的弗雷德里克-威廉王子是个自由主义者，没有军国主义倾向。如果他能活下来，德国就不会发动一战。威廉二世在出生时经历了一次创伤性分娩，在接下来的5年里，根据皇家医生的错误建议，将婴儿关在铁栅栏里，这使情况变得更加复杂。这种"待遇"给威廉二世的一生留下了对世界报复的态度，他没有得到母亲的喜爱。在社会和经济政策方面，1871-1910年的德国比英国、法国或美国好。第一次世界大战把德国拉向了深渊，希特勒巧妙地完成了最后一击。
如果第一次世界大战没有发生，德国现在对世界的文化影响会更大。
Wilhelm’s II ‘s father Prince Frederick William of Prussia was a liberal, and had no militaristic tendencies. If he had survived, Germany would not have started WW1. Wilhelm’s II , when he was born had a traumatic birth, which was compounded by putting the infant in iron bars for the next 5 years, on the mistaken advice of the royal doctors. This “treatment” left a vengeful attitude on the world for Wilhelm 2 throughout his life and he did not get his mother’s affection. In social and economic policies, German of 1871–1910 was better than Britain or France or US. The First World war pulled Germany down towards the abyss which Hitler skillfully completed.
If WW1 had not happened, Germany’s cultural influence on the world would be much more now.
威廉二世的父亲普鲁士的弗雷德里克-威廉王子是个自由主义者，没有军国主义倾向。如果他能活下来，德国就不会发动一战。威廉二世在出生时经历了一次创伤性分娩，在接下来的5年里，根据皇家医生的错误建议，将婴儿关在铁栅栏里，这使情况变得更加复杂。这种"待遇"给威廉二世的一生留下了对世界报复的态度，他没有得到母亲的喜爱。在社会和经济政策方面，1871-1910年的德国比英国、法国或美国好。第一次世界大战把德国拉向了深渊，希特勒巧妙地完成了最后一击。
如果第一次世界大战没有发生，德国现在对世界的文化影响会更大。
Raziman T.V.
, MA English Literature & History (1990)6mo
In India, it gets worse.
Many Hindu nationalists believe that their religious mythology describes a historical period in India. The extreme ones believe that ancient India was a scientifically and technologically advanced civilization far ahead of even where we are today.[1] They even say that many intentions and discoveries underlying our modern civilization were stolen by westerners from India.[2][3]
As such, they (including some top politicians) believe that ancient India had technological advancements like nuclear weapons,[4] aircrafts and interplanetary travel,[5] robots,[6] and Mercury fuel engines, [7] and knowledge of advanced scientific concepts like black holes,[8] quantum physics,[9] gravitational waves,[10] and relativity.[11]
So, when the Hindu nationalists talk about bringing back the glory days of the past, they are often talking about this mythological past that never existed!
And simply mentioning that the religious stories are only mythological and not historical is enough to get them all riled up.
在印度，情况更糟糕。
许多印度教民族主义者认为他们的宗教神话描述的是印度真实的一个历史时期。极端的人认为，古印度是一个在科学和技术上先进的文明，甚至远远领先于我们今天。[1] 他们甚至说，我们现代文明的许多意图和发现都是西方人从印度偷来的[2][3] 。
因此，他们（包括一些高级政治家）认为，古代印度拥有核武器、[4] 飞机和星际旅行、[5] 机器人、[6] 和水星燃料发动机等技术进步，[7] 以及黑洞、[8] 量子物理、[9] 引力波、[10] 和相对论等先进科学概念知识。
因此，当印度教民族主义者谈论让过去的光辉岁月重现时，他们往往是在谈论这个从未存在过的神话般的过去！这就是印度教民族主义。
而只要提到宗教故事只是神话而不是历史，就足以让他们大发雷霆。
, MA English Literature & History (1990)6mo
In India, it gets worse.
Many Hindu nationalists believe that their religious mythology describes a historical period in India. The extreme ones believe that ancient India was a scientifically and technologically advanced civilization far ahead of even where we are today.[1] They even say that many intentions and discoveries underlying our modern civilization were stolen by westerners from India.[2][3]
As such, they (including some top politicians) believe that ancient India had technological advancements like nuclear weapons,[4] aircrafts and interplanetary travel,[5] robots,[6] and Mercury fuel engines, [7] and knowledge of advanced scientific concepts like black holes,[8] quantum physics,[9] gravitational waves,[10] and relativity.[11]
So, when the Hindu nationalists talk about bringing back the glory days of the past, they are often talking about this mythological past that never existed!
And simply mentioning that the religious stories are only mythological and not historical is enough to get them all riled up.
在印度，情况更糟糕。
许多印度教民族主义者认为他们的宗教神话描述的是印度真实的一个历史时期。极端的人认为，古印度是一个在科学和技术上先进的文明，甚至远远领先于我们今天。[1] 他们甚至说，我们现代文明的许多意图和发现都是西方人从印度偷来的[2][3] 。
因此，他们（包括一些高级政治家）认为，古代印度拥有核武器、[4] 飞机和星际旅行、[5] 机器人、[6] 和水星燃料发动机等技术进步，[7] 以及黑洞、[8] 量子物理、[9] 引力波、[10] 和相对论等先进科学概念知识。
因此，当印度教民族主义者谈论让过去的光辉岁月重现时，他们往往是在谈论这个从未存在过的神话般的过去！这就是印度教民族主义。
而只要提到宗教故事只是神话而不是历史，就足以让他们大发雷霆。
Kami Ghorbanpour
Persian* nationalists focus primarily on two periods:
*I use Persian and not Iranian to clearly distinguish the type of nationalism among Iranians who identify ethnically as Persians. Iran is a multicultural and multiethnic country with many people of different roots and identities. So, for example, an Iranian who identifies as a Turk nationalist might have a drastically different view than someone who identifies as Persian.
Pre-Islamic Persia/Iranshahr
The Achaemenid Empire, alongside the Sassanid Empires, has been historically romanticized by Persian nationalists. Parthian Empire is also sometimes included in the romanticization of ancient Iran though not to the extent of Persian dynasties due to their Hellenic influence.
Persian nationalists idolize the Persian/Parthian kings who used to control modern-day Iran alongside many other countries from modern Greece to Pakistan. The most notable king worshipped by nationalists and Persephiles is Cyrus the Great, who is believed to be responsible for religious freedom, democracy, women’s rights, social justice, tables, chairs, airplanes, and most likely Nintendo Switch.
It’s notable that Persian nationalists feel great resentment and shame about the invasion of the Sassanid Empire by Arabs. They see that event as an end to their glorious civilization. Although other Islamized Persian and Persianized Empires came to power after the fall of Arab rule, none of them have been historically glorified as the pre-Islamic era.
Image: Cyrus the Great from Civilization VI.
Pre-revolution Persia/The Imperial State of Iran under the Pahlavi dynasty
Due to recent frustrations with the current regime and the Islamic Republic of Iran, a romanticized picture of pre-revolution Iran under the previous regime has become very prominent in the public’s imagination. Persian nationalists idolize and romanticize Reza Shah and his son as bringers of democracy, freedom, industrialization, equality, justice, roads, walls, spoons, and most likely Twitter.
Much like how they perceive ancient Persia, they see the Iranian revolution (later known as the Islamic revolution) as the downfall of Iran and an end to the glorious age of modern Persia.
Image: Poster of a pre-revolution movie. Part of a strange historical genre called “Filmfarsi.”
“波斯”民族主义者主要喜欢追捧两个时期：
我使用“波斯”而不是“伊朗”，是为了明确区分那些在种族上认同为波斯人的伊朗民族主义类型。伊朗是一个多文化、多民族的国家，有许多人有不同的根基和身份。因此，举例来说，一个身份认同为土耳其民族主义者的伊朗人可能与身份认同为波斯人的人有着截然不同的看法。
1.伊斯兰教前的波斯/伊兰沙尔
阿契美尼德帝国与萨珊帝国一样，在历史上被波斯民族主义者美化。帕提亚帝国有时也被纳入古代伊朗的浪漫化中，尽管由于其希腊化的影响，对它的追捧没有达到波斯王朝的程度。
波斯民族主义者将波斯/帕提亚国王作为偶像，这些国王曾经控制着包括现代伊朗的，从现代希腊到巴基斯坦的许多其他国家。民族主义者和波斯人崇拜的最著名的国王是居鲁士大帝，他被认为是宗教自由、民主、妇女权利、社会正义、桌子、椅子、飞机以及甚至是任天堂Switch的功臣。
值得注意的是，波斯民族主义者对阿拉伯人入侵萨珊帝国感到非常怨恨和羞耻。他们将这一事件视为他们辉煌文明的终结。尽管其他伊斯兰化的波斯帝国和波斯化的帝国在阿拉伯人的统治垮台后纷纷上台，但它们都没有在历史上像被前伊斯兰时代那样追捧。
Persian* nationalists focus primarily on two periods:
*I use Persian and not Iranian to clearly distinguish the type of nationalism among Iranians who identify ethnically as Persians. Iran is a multicultural and multiethnic country with many people of different roots and identities. So, for example, an Iranian who identifies as a Turk nationalist might have a drastically different view than someone who identifies as Persian.
Pre-Islamic Persia/Iranshahr
The Achaemenid Empire, alongside the Sassanid Empires, has been historically romanticized by Persian nationalists. Parthian Empire is also sometimes included in the romanticization of ancient Iran though not to the extent of Persian dynasties due to their Hellenic influence.
Persian nationalists idolize the Persian/Parthian kings who used to control modern-day Iran alongside many other countries from modern Greece to Pakistan. The most notable king worshipped by nationalists and Persephiles is Cyrus the Great, who is believed to be responsible for religious freedom, democracy, women’s rights, social justice, tables, chairs, airplanes, and most likely Nintendo Switch.
It’s notable that Persian nationalists feel great resentment and shame about the invasion of the Sassanid Empire by Arabs. They see that event as an end to their glorious civilization. Although other Islamized Persian and Persianized Empires came to power after the fall of Arab rule, none of them have been historically glorified as the pre-Islamic era.
Image: Cyrus the Great from Civilization VI.
Pre-revolution Persia/The Imperial State of Iran under the Pahlavi dynasty
Due to recent frustrations with the current regime and the Islamic Republic of Iran, a romanticized picture of pre-revolution Iran under the previous regime has become very prominent in the public’s imagination. Persian nationalists idolize and romanticize Reza Shah and his son as bringers of democracy, freedom, industrialization, equality, justice, roads, walls, spoons, and most likely Twitter.
Much like how they perceive ancient Persia, they see the Iranian revolution (later known as the Islamic revolution) as the downfall of Iran and an end to the glorious age of modern Persia.
Image: Poster of a pre-revolution movie. Part of a strange historical genre called “Filmfarsi.”
“波斯”民族主义者主要喜欢追捧两个时期：
我使用“波斯”而不是“伊朗”，是为了明确区分那些在种族上认同为波斯人的伊朗民族主义类型。伊朗是一个多文化、多民族的国家，有许多人有不同的根基和身份。因此，举例来说，一个身份认同为土耳其民族主义者的伊朗人可能与身份认同为波斯人的人有着截然不同的看法。
1.伊斯兰教前的波斯/伊兰沙尔
阿契美尼德帝国与萨珊帝国一样，在历史上被波斯民族主义者美化。帕提亚帝国有时也被纳入古代伊朗的浪漫化中，尽管由于其希腊化的影响，对它的追捧没有达到波斯王朝的程度。
波斯民族主义者将波斯/帕提亚国王作为偶像，这些国王曾经控制着包括现代伊朗的，从现代希腊到巴基斯坦的许多其他国家。民族主义者和波斯人崇拜的最著名的国王是居鲁士大帝，他被认为是宗教自由、民主、妇女权利、社会正义、桌子、椅子、飞机以及甚至是任天堂Switch的功臣。
值得注意的是，波斯民族主义者对阿拉伯人入侵萨珊帝国感到非常怨恨和羞耻。他们将这一事件视为他们辉煌文明的终结。尽管其他伊斯兰化的波斯帝国和波斯化的帝国在阿拉伯人的统治垮台后纷纷上台，但它们都没有在历史上像被前伊斯兰时代那样追捧。
图片：居鲁士大帝，来自《文明六》。
2.革命前的波斯/巴列维王朝时期的伊朗帝国
由于最近对现政权和伊朗伊斯兰共和国的失望，前政权统治下的革命前伊朗的浪漫化形象在公众的想象中变得非常突出。波斯民族主义者将礼萨-沙阿和他的儿子视为民主、自由、工业化、平等、正义、道路、墙壁、勺子以及极其可能是推特的带来者，并将其视为浪漫。
与他们对古代波斯的看法一样，他们将伊朗革命（后来被称为伊斯兰革命）视为伊朗的衰落和现代波斯辉煌时代的结束。
图片：革命前电影的海报。属于一种叫做"Filmfarsi "的奇怪历史类型。
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