美国人分享:为什么东亚移民融入美国文化的程度,明显高于南亚移民?
2022-08-25 yzy86 14864
正文翻译

I’m a child of immigrants myself as my family is from Bangladesh. I was born and raised here. One thing I’ve definitely noticed between the different Asian immigrant communities is that East Asians as a whole tend to integrate with American and Western culture much better than South Asians. When it comes to naming, culture, and lifestyle, East Asians in general seem to try to integrate with they local cultures. On the other hand, South Asians tend to be much more insular and hold on to their culture much more strongly. Many South Asian immigrant families pretty much refuse to integrate and live their lives similarly to how lived back in their home countries, my family included. One issue this causes is culture clash as kids of immigrant parents don’t culturally get along with how their parents want them to live.

我本人也是移民的孩子,我的家人来自孟加拉国。我是在美国这里出生、长大的。可以确定的是,我在不同的亚洲移民社群之间注意到了一件事,那就是东亚人这个整体,往往能比南亚人更好地融入美国文化和西方文化。当涉及到起名字、文化和生活方式时,东亚人在总体上似乎会尽可能地融入他们当地的文化。另一方面,南亚人往往孤僻得多,对自身文化紧抓不放的劲头也比旁人强烈得多。有很多南亚移民家庭几乎是拒绝融入的,他们过生活的方式也和他们在本国的生活方式类似,这也包括我的家庭。由此导致的一个问题就是文化冲突,因为移民父母们的孩子在文化上,无法与他们父母希望他们采用的生活方式相调谐。

评论翻译
Fun-Attention1468
They're a much older immigrant group. Specifically Chinese immigrated in large numbers in the late 1800s

作为一个移民族群,他们古老得多。特别是华人,曾在十九世纪末大量移民。

I read somewhere that it's easier for group to integrate if they seek higher education. No idea how true that is, but based on the limited observation of my ol dumb ass, it holds true for a handful of ethnic groups (Chinese, Jewish, east Indians, etc.)

(回)我在某处读到过,如果这个族群追求更高的教育,那就更容易融入。我不清楚其真实性如何,但根据本傻缺有限的观察,这话对少数几个族裔群体(华人、犹太人、东印度人等)是适用的。

It's def true. Education usually means you have a skill, which was useful for trying to immigrate (I believe that's still the case today but I'm not positive)

(回)这绝对是真的。教育的结果通常是你有了一技之长,这对试图移民的人来说是很有用的(我相信直至今日仍是如此,但我不太乐观)。

It's still the case in the US, Canada, and western Europe (I'd expect it to be policy in most developed countries). It's created a real brain drain problem for some countries like Russia where those who are able to get PhDs tend to study outside of the country and tend to ultimately immigrate to other countries where they'll have better career prospects.

(回)美国、加拿大和西欧的情况仍是如此(我估计在大多数发达国家都是这样的政策)。这给俄罗斯这类国家带来了严重的人才流失问题,那些有能力拿到博士学位的人往往会去国外学习,并最终移民到其他国家,在那里他们会拥有更好的职业前景。

X
because east Asians moved here in large numbers much longer ago. Indians didn't really move here in huge numbers until the mid-21st century.

因为东亚人在更早之前就大量迁入这里了。而印度人直到二十一(译注:原文有误,应为“二十”)世纪中期才开始大量迁入这里。
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Same as if an Italian came here today they'd have no issue, but in the 1900s they faced massive racism. Same with the Irish during the 1830s, the Germans in the 1780s, etc etc.

同理,如果一个意大利人在今天来到这里,他们是不会有任何问题的,但在1900年代,他们要面对严重的种族主义。1830年代的爱尔兰人,还有1780年代的德国人等也都是如此。

I know what you meant. But I met plenty of first generation families from east Asia who prides themselves in assimilating quickly.
I think it has something to do with their mentality- successful career may be more important then culture.

(回)我知道你的意思。但我遇到过很多来自东亚的第一代移民家庭,他们会因为自己能迅速融入而自豪。
我认为这和他们的心态有关,成功的职业发展可能比文化更重要。

Again, they have had immigration dating back to the mid 1800s. Japanese and Chinese have become more normalized over time, and that leads to acceptance and quicker assimilation.
If they immigrate to nearly anywhere in the United States, they aren't the "first" ones to do so. The same can't be said for Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thais, Hmong, and Lao immigrants.
Sure, they might have some who aim to culturally assimilate, but there's a lot to be said for having strong cultural recognition and existing communities to ease them in to communities and help assimilate.

(回,德州)再说一次,他们的移民可以追溯到十九世纪中期。随着时间的推移,日本人和华人已经变得更加正常化了,这就导致(新来的移民)会被接纳乃至更快地被同化。
如果他们移民到美国的几乎任何地方,他们也不是“第一批”这么干的。但越南人、柬埔寨人、泰国人、苗族人和老挝人的移民可就不是这种情况了。
当然了,他们(东亚新移民)中间可能有一些人,其目标就是在文化上融入,但存在强大的文化认同和业已存在的社群,能让他们轻松地融入社群,也有助于他们被同化,在这方面是大有文章可做的。

On the flip side, I bet for every east Asian you can point to who assimilated well, I can point to an east Asian in Flushing, NY who never assimilated at all. I've known folks who were basically totally assimilated in three years, and other folks who have been here decades and cannot speak English. There's always going to be a mixture of stories, and it's rare that one stereotype applies broadly.

反过来说,我敢打赌,任你指出多少融入程度很高的东亚人,我都能同时指出同样数量的在纽约法拉盛地区完全没有融入的东亚人。我认识的一些人,他们基本上在三年内就完全被同化了,还有一些人一直在这里生活长达几十年,却连英语都不会说。总会存在各种各样的故事,鲜少会有一种刻板印象能广泛适用。

It’s not just their history in America. I think there is something else in their mindset that helps them assimilate better.

(回)个中原因可不仅仅是他们在美国的历史。我认为在他们的心态中还存在一些能帮助他们更好融入的东西。

In some sext cases, yes. I used to be a consular officer and processed something north of 25,000 visas from China. I also handled American Citizen Services which included a large chunk of 1st generation American Citizens. I wouldn't say I saw a significantly better outcome of assimilation to other immigrant groups. There are some statistics that support better educational attainment, but on the whole I'd say I encountered better cultural assimilation from folks from countries with less historical and current assimilation. West Africans and Eastern Europeans, at least in my experience, have a better rate of culturally assimilating. For East Asians, by and large, a substantial majority immigrated to areas with large numbers of similar origin recent immigration where they could continue living and working without assimilating.

(回,德州)在某些特定的案例中,确实如此。我曾是一名领事官员,受理过来自中国的25000件以上的签证。我还处理过美国公民服务,其中包括很大一部分第一代美国公民。我不记得我见过有哪个移民群体的同化效果明显好于其他移民群体。有一些统计数字支持的是教育上更高的造诣,但总的来说,我碰到的更为理想的文化同化案例,来自那些在其历史和当下中同化现象发生较少的国家的人。至少以我的经验,西非人和东欧人的文化同化率更理想。总体而言,绝大多数东亚人移民到了有大量近似祖源(且最近才移来)移民的地区,在那里他们可以继续生活和工作而不被同化。
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LAKnapper
I have a friend who came here from Thailand.
He's a redneck now.

(路易斯安纳)我有一个朋友是从泰国来到这里的。
现在他成了一个红脖子。

In TN, I had a friend whose parents immigrated from China. He was a proud redneck.
Edit: he literally told me Asians know how to adapt well.

(回)我在田纳西州有一个朋友,他父母是从中国移民过来的。他已经成了一个骄傲的红脖子。
补充:他还真的告诉过我,亚洲人懂得如何很好地去适应环境。

New immigrants generally socialize with pre-existing immigrants, before assimilating into mainstream society, so their culture slants towards what pre-existing immigrants do.

(回,印)新移民在融入主流社会之前,大都会和已经存在的移民交往,所以他们的文化会往既存的移民文化上靠。

k1lk1
Some East Asian families have been in the USA for generations since the late 19th century. Even in the 20th century, East Asian immigration picked up several decades before South Asian did.
In 20 years, expect to see lots more South Asian families integrated into American culture in the same way. (For example, your family once you are raising children)

(华盛顿)有些东亚人家庭自十九世纪末起就一直在美国生活了,已经绵延了好几代人。即使在二十世纪,东亚移民也比南亚移民早行动了几十年。
在二十年内,预计会看到更多的南亚家庭以同样的方式融入美国文化。
(例如,你的家庭一旦开始养育孩子)

My godmother is Chinese American and her family has been in the US since the 1840s.
Meanwhile I am a white first generation American.

(回,蒙大拿)我的教母是华裔美国人,她的家族从十九世纪四十年代起就一直在美国生活。
而我却是第一代白人美国移民。

Crayshack
We had massive waves of immigrants from East Asia over 100 years ago. A large part of the East Asian population here has been established for a long time. There have been more recent waves, but they mostly just added to an already well-established population. Seeing 4th and 5th generation immigrants is not uncommon. The initial big wave of Chinese immigrants actually at least partially coincided with the big wave of Irish immigrants so they have had about as much time to assimilate (and shape American culture in turn).

一百多年前,我们这里出现过大量来自东亚的移民潮。这里的很大一部分东亚人口已经扎根了很长时间了。最近出现的移民潮更多,但他们中的大部分只是在增加已然根深蒂固的族群人口。第四代、第五代移民也并非罕见。最初的中国移民大潮其实至少有一部分是与爱尔兰移民大潮同时发生的,因此他们有差不多同样多的时间来完成同化(并反过来塑造美国文化)。

Meanwhile, South Asian groups have mostly only been showing up in the US in large numbers recently. There were some that arrived much earlier, but they were in relatively small and isolated groups. The majority are still 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. They simply haven't had the time to integrate as much.

而南亚族群大都是最近才大量出现在美国的。也有一些人的到达时间远早于他们,但他们是相对较小和孤立的群体。大多数人仍属于第一代和第二代移民。他们没有足够的时间去深度融入,如此而已。

The assimilation process is a complicated one and it takes a long time. What you are describing is a fairly normal part of the process early on. Early generations of immigrants do tend to mostly just stick together and not integrate well. I'm a 4th generation immigrant on my dad's side. Not Asian, but the process is the same. I can definitely say that the kind of isolated community you are describing sounds like how my great-grandparents lived and what my grandparents' lives were like when they were young. But, my dad had a much more multicultural upbringing and for me, most people can't even tell where my "recent" immigrant influence is coming from unless I actively discuss it.

同化过程是一个很复杂的过程,需要花费很长的时间。你所描述的是这个过程中处于早期的一个相当正常的阶段。早期的那几代移民往往只会抱团在一起,融合度并不理想。在我父亲那一支上,我是第四代移民了。我不是亚裔,但这个过程是一模一样的。我可以肯定地说,你所描述的那种孤立的社区听起来活像我曾祖父母以及我祖父母年轻时的生活方式。但我父亲成长的文化环境远比他的祖辈多元,而对我来说,除非我主动讨论,否则大多数人甚至都无法判断我“新近”的移民影响来自哪里。

m1sch13v0us
It's just the natural process of acculturation. South Asians are largely on first generation families. First generation of every ethnicity always kept the ways of their home countries.
The second generation will be South Asian at home and American with friends. By the third generation, they'll be fully acculturated.
It's been this way since the 1880s.

这只是文化适应的自然过程。南亚人家庭大都是第一代移民。每个族裔的第一代总是会保持他们母国的生活方式。
第二代移民就会变成在家里是南亚人,和朋友们在一起是美国人。到了第三代,他们就会在文化上完全融入了。
自1880年代以来,一直都是这样。

Well, south Asians unlike every other American immigrant group aren’t Christian majority. We are the first major non-Christian group to America. Many East Asian groups convert to Christianity if they aren’t already.
I don’t think south Asian Americans will take on English names nor will they become Christians. For ex. Look at British Indians. They been there for centuries and hardly any of them are Christian’s or have English names. Indians/Pakistanis don’t mind being different and not fitting in. For ex: look at Indian Guyanese people. They’re the only non-Christian’s in all of South America. And they’re doing fine.
But we south Asians will definitely integrate into American society.. in that we’ll normalize not being Christian’s and not having names from England.

(回)好吧,南亚人和其他美国移民族群不同,基督徒并不占多数。我们是第一个来到美国的重要非基督徒群体。很多东亚族群会皈依基督教,如果当时还没有皈依的话。
我不认为南亚裔美国人会给自己起英文名字,也不认为他们会成为基督徒。比如说。去看看印裔英国人。他们已经在那里生活了几个世纪了,几乎没有人成为基督徒,也没什么人起了英文名字。印度人/巴基斯坦人并不介意与众不同和不合群。举个例子,去看看印度裔的圭亚那人。他们是整个南美洲唯一的非基督徒族群。而且他们也混得很好。
但我们南亚人绝对会融入美国社会的,我们会在不成为基督徒也不起英国名字的情况下完成正常化。

MyUsername2459
There have been Chinese immigrants to the US since the 1850's, who came to the US originally to help build the railroads. There have been large amounts of Japanese immigrants for roughly a century now. There have been East-Asian immigrants in the US for a number of generations now, and they're pretty well integrated into American culture

(肯塔基)从十九世纪五十年代开始,就一直有华人移民来到美国,他们来到美国,最初是为了帮助修建铁路。大约一个世纪以来,也一直都有大量的日本移民来到此地。到现在,东亚移民在美国已经存在了好几代人,他们已经很好地融入了美国文化。

One issue this causes is culture clash as kids of immigrant parents don’t culturally get along with how their parents want them to live.
This is a classic part of the immigrant experience. Happens constantly, to many, many different groups that immigrate here.

“由此导致的一个问题就是文化冲突,因为移民父母们的孩子在文化上,无法与他们父母希望他们采用的生活方式相调谐。”
这是移民们的经历中很典型的一部分。这种情况一直在发生,发生在我们这里很多不同的移民群体身上。

gophersrqt
Religion... South Asians are pretty religious overall, whether that be Muslim or Hindu or some other religious identity. Religious roots often mean sticking to your own ethnic identities. Eastern asians as a whole are less religious

是因为宗教...南亚人总体上是相当虔诚的教徒,无论是穆斯林、印度教徒还是其他宗教身份。宗教根脉往往会导致坚守自己的民族身份。而东亚人这个整体,信教程度没有那么高。

Confetticandi
I’m East Asian. A lot of us are not immigrants.
My family came here around 1900. My grandparents and parents were all born here speaking English as their first language. I don’t consider my family to be an immigrant family.
That could be what you’re seeing and I imagine having us as a bridge helps new East Asian immigrants also integrate better. We bring them into the fold, I guess.

(密苏里)我就是东亚人。我们中有很多人并不是移民。
我的家人在1900年前后来到这里。我的祖父母和父母都在这里出生,都以英语为第一语言。在我眼中,我的家庭不是什么移民家庭。
这可能是你所见证的,我能想到的是,我们作为桥梁,能帮助东亚新移民更好地融入。我猜,是我们接引他们进入了这个圈子。

CopprRegendt
They've been here longer. Several generations longer. Japanese people almost never emigrate anymore, Korea is tapering off since the late-80s, I'm not sure about China but their largest immigration started about 150 years ago.
South East Asians only started immigrating in the 1970-80s, that's only 1-1.5 generations ago.

(加州)他们在这里的时间更长。比南亚人长了几代人。日本人几乎不再移民了,韩国移民从八十年代末开始逐渐减少,中国的情况我不清楚,但他们最大的一波移民潮是在约一百五十年前。
东南亚人直到七八十年代才开始移民,这只是一代至一点五代人之前的事情。

If you meet a Japanese or Chinese person in California, they probably won't have an accent and their parents were born here. Most of my Korean friends when I was a kid in Philly were second generation, meaning their parents emigrated, my friends spoke English without an accent.

如果你在加州碰到一个日本人或华人,他们很可能说话不带口音,很可能他们的父母就是在这里出生的。我幼时在费城的时候,我大部分的韩国朋友都是第二代移民,也就是说他们的父母移民了,而我这些朋友说英语时是不带口音的。

IndianPhDStudent
I think it varies. In my experience, Indians, Nepalis and Sri Lankans are much more culturally assimilated than Bangladeshis. Similarly, Japanese, Koreans more than Chinese. It depends on how immigration happened - when it happened, which section of population immigrated, etc.

(印度博士)我认为各有各的情况。以我的经验,印度人、尼泊尔人和斯里兰卡人在文化上的被同化程度远高于孟加拉人。类似地,日本人、韩国人的被同化程度远高于华人。这要取决于移民发生的方式、发生的时间以及移民所属的阶层等等。

Similarly it varies from region to region. South Asians, here in California interact differently than South Asians in New York, and I could see this as an Indian who lived in both states. It can vary based on whether the profession of parents requires integration - a Silicon valley person vs a Restaurant owner vs Uber driver vs Landlord / property owner.

类似地,也因地区而异。我们加州这里的南亚人和纽约州的南亚人,与人的互动方式是不同的,作为一个在这两个州生活过的印度人,我能见出这一点。视父母从事的职业是否需要融合而有所不同:硅谷人、餐馆老板、Uber司机、房东/房产主,各有各的不同。
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Similarly, religion matters. A Mexican, Korean or Filipino immigrant who is Christian or some Chinese who are non-religious can easily integrate more. On the other hand a practicing Muslim, Hindu or Sikh community will have more barriers, since social events are centered around religious celebrations.
In the UK, the South-Asian community is far more assimilated due to different immigration patterns.

类似地,宗教也是重要因素。一个信仰基督教的墨西哥移民、韩国移民或菲律宾移民,或是某些无宗教信仰的华人很容易就能更好地融入社会。另一方面,一个奉行教义的穆斯林、印度教徒或锡克教徒的群体则会有更多障碍,因为社会活动是围绕着宗教庆典展开的。
在英国,由于移民模式的不同,南亚群体被同化的程度要高得多。

WaddleD
Is that necessarily true thought? For example Indian Americans are on average the wealthiest ethnic group in America. Additionally there are far more South Asian American CEO’s than East Asian.

这种想法就一定属实吗?比如说,印度裔美国人平均而言是美国最富有的族裔群体。此外,在CEO数量方面,南亚裔美国人是远多于东亚裔的。
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TangerineBerry
East Asian cultures are predominately collectivist (assimilation/social harmony/not standing out, etc). It logically follows that people from those communities or were raised with those values are more integrated in the society which they live.

(纽约)在东亚文化中占主导地位的是集体主义(同化/社会和谐/不特立独行,等等)。从逻辑上可以推导出,出身于这些群体或在这些价值观下长大的人更能融入他们所生活的社会。

MetaDragon11
I mean, you wouldnt know it based on media, but East Asian, especially Han Chinese is actually one of the oldest demographic immigration groups, it just happens to be they are relatively few in number and tended to stay on the West Coast.

我想说的是,根据媒体你是无从得知的,但东亚人,特别是汉人,其实是最古老的移民群体之一,只是他们的数量恰好相对较少,而且倾向于留在西海岸。
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hitometootoo
One group comes to America with the idea of leaving their ideologies and customs behind in favor of a more open society, with the intention of integrated their culture with American culture.
The other tends to see America as a means to succeed with the intention of retaining their culture and sometimes going back to their home country or not forgetting where they came from.
There is nuance to this and this doesn't apply to all of either group, but the mentality is different among those immigrants.

有些来到美国的群体,他们的想法是:把自己的意识形态和习俗抛在身后,转而去拥抱一个更开放的社会,而且有意把他们的文化融入美国文化。
另一些群体则倾向于将美国看成一种成功的手段,同时有意保留他们的文化,时不时会回到他们的祖国,或是不忘记他们出身的地方。
这其中是存在微妙差别的,而且这不适用于这两个群体中的所有人,但这些移民的心态各有不同。

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Dangerous_Concept341
Idk about East Asians but I find Koreans the most integrated

我不清楚东亚人的情况,但我发现韩国人是融合得最好的。

MediocrePetrichor
The darker the skin the harder to be considered a “real American”

肤色越黑越难被看成是”真正的美国人”
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


notfornowforawhile
Growing up in a pretty diverse suburb the south Asian kids stuck to their own less than the East Asians from what I noticed. Maybe it’s because there were more East Asians than south Asians where I lived?

(俄勒冈)我是在一个种族相当多元化的郊区长大的,我注意到的情况是,南亚孩子比东亚人更能坚守自己的立场。也许这是因为在我住的那地方,东亚人比南亚人多?
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


But overall I think it’s been noted by sociologists that Japanese and Filipino Americans are considered the most assimilated immigrant groups. I think it’s because native born Americans (regardless of race or ethnicity) are more familiar with Japanese and Pinoy culture and there’s lots of connections to the US through imperialism and military bases and so forth.

但总的来说,我认为社会学家已经注意到了,日裔和菲律宾裔美国人被认为是同化程度最高的移民群体。我认为,这是因为土生土长的美国人(无论是什么种族或族裔)更熟悉日本文化和菲律宾文化,而且通过帝国主义和军事基地等等与美国存在诸多联系。

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