“不是我的国王”：英国反君主制抗议者面临警察镇压
正文翻译
(An anti-monarchy protester approaches the media outside the Houses of Parliament on Monday.)
（周一，一名反君主制抗议者在议会大厦外接近媒体。）
新闻：
'Not my King': Anti-monarchy protesters face police crackdown in the UK
“不是我的国王”：英国反君主制抗议者面临警察镇压
“不是我的国王”：英国反君主制抗议者面临警察镇压
(An anti-monarchy protester approaches the media outside the Houses of Parliament on Monday.)
（周一，一名反君主制抗议者在议会大厦外接近媒体。）
新闻：
While thousands of people have taken to the streets of the United Kingdom to remember Queen Elizabeth II following her death last week, critics of the monarchy have used this opportunity to protest, holding signs such as "not my King" -- a reference to the new King Charles III. Police have intervened and, in some cases, arrested protesters, raising serious questions about the way in which some forces are cracking down on dissent in the country.
上周，英国女王伊丽莎白二世去世，数千人走上街头纪念她，而王室的批评者则利用这个机会举行抗议，举着“不是我的国王”等标语，暗指新国王查尔斯三世。警方进行了干预，在某些情况下还逮捕了抗议者，这引发了人们对英国一些部队镇压异见人士的方式的严重质疑。
上周，英国女王伊丽莎白二世去世，数千人走上街头纪念她，而王室的批评者则利用这个机会举行抗议，举着“不是我的国王”等标语，暗指新国王查尔斯三世。警方进行了干预，在某些情况下还逮捕了抗议者，这引发了人们对英国一些部队镇压异见人士的方式的严重质疑。
Liberty, a civil rights advocacy group, expressed its concern, saying in a statement: "It is very worrying to see the police enforcing their broad powers in such a heavy-handed and punitive way to clamp down on free speech and expression."
民权倡导组织“自由”表达了自己的担忧，在一份声明中表示：“看到警察以如此严厉和惩罚性的方式执行他们广泛的权力，以压制言论和表达自由，这非常令人担忧。”
民权倡导组织“自由”表达了自己的担忧，在一份声明中表示：“看到警察以如此严厉和惩罚性的方式执行他们广泛的权力，以压制言论和表达自由，这非常令人担忧。”
CNN spoke to some of those who faced police action this week after publicly criticizing the royal family.
CNN采访了本周因公开批评王室而面临警方行动的一些人。
CNN采访了本周因公开批评王室而面临警方行动的一些人。
Symon Hill, from Oxford, was on his way home from church on Sunday at about 12:30 p.m. The 45-year-old told CNN that the roads in the city center had been cordoned off for a procession, making it hard for him to get through the crowds. Realizing King Charles III's accession was about to be proclaimed by local officials, Hill decided to listen rather than pushing through to get home.
来自牛津的西蒙·希尔周日下午12点半左右从教堂回家。这位45岁的男性告诉CNN，市中心的道路为游行而被封锁，他很难穿过人群。希尔意识到查理三世国王登基即将由当地官员宣布，他决定听一听，而不是赶着回家。
来自牛津的西蒙·希尔周日下午12点半左右从教堂回家。这位45岁的男性告诉CNN，市中心的道路为游行而被封锁，他很难穿过人群。希尔意识到查理三世国王登基即将由当地官员宣布，他决定听一听，而不是赶着回家。
"They started reading out about Elizabeth II and expressing grief for her death," Hill said. "I certainly wouldn't interrupt that. I've never intruded on an act of mourning. That's not something I would ever do."
希尔说：“他们开始读有关伊丽莎白二世的文章，并对她的去世表示哀悼。我当然不会打断它。我从来没有打扰过哀悼的行为。这是我永远不会做的事。”
希尔说：“他们开始读有关伊丽莎白二世的文章，并对她的去世表示哀悼。我当然不会打断它。我从来没有打扰过哀悼的行为。这是我永远不会做的事。”
But when King Charles was declared to be "our only lawful and rightful Liege Lord," Hill said he called out: "Who elected him?"
但当查理国王被宣布为“我们唯一合法合法的君主”时，希尔说他大声问道：“谁选的他？”
但当查理国王被宣布为“我们唯一合法合法的君主”时，希尔说他大声问道：“谁选的他？”
"Only people really nearby could have heard. A couple of people told me to shut up. I responded that a Head of State is being imposed without our consent," something he found "hard to stomach."
“只有真正在附近的人才能听到。有几个人叫我闭嘴。我的回答是，一个国家元首未经我们的同意就被强加于人”，他认为这是“难以接受的”。
“只有真正在附近的人才能听到。有几个人叫我闭嘴。我的回答是，一个国家元首未经我们的同意就被强加于人”，他认为这是“难以接受的”。
Hill said he was "gobsmacked" by what happened next, describing how he was pushed back by security guards. "Then police intervened, grabbed hold of me, handcuffed me, and put me in the back of a police van," he said. "It was probably no more than five minutes since I'd called out 'who elected him?'"
希尔说，接下来发生的事情让他“目瞪口呆”，他描述了自己是如何被保安推回去的。“然后警察介入，抓住我，给我戴上手铐，把我放进一辆警车的后面，”他说。“因为我喊‘谁选了他？’”
希尔说，接下来发生的事情让他“目瞪口呆”，他描述了自己是如何被保安推回去的。“然后警察介入，抓住我，给我戴上手铐，把我放进一辆警车的后面，”他说。“因为我喊‘谁选了他？’”
Hill said that, once he was in the police van, he repeatedly asked officers what law he was being arrested under. "They didn't seem to be very sure, which is quite worrying. Surely arbitrary arrest is not something we should have in a democratic society."
希尔说，他一上了警车，就反复问警察他是根据什么法律被捕的。“他们似乎不是很确定，这很令人担忧。显然，在民主社会中，任意逮捕是不应该的。”
希尔说，他一上了警车，就反复问警察他是根据什么法律被捕的。“他们似乎不是很确定，这很令人担忧。显然，在民主社会中，任意逮捕是不应该的。”
Hill said he was given conflicting reasons for his arrest, as police were unsure about whether to take him into custody.
希尔说，他被逮捕的理由相互矛盾，因为警方不确定是否要拘留他。
希尔说，他被逮捕的理由相互矛盾，因为警方不确定是否要拘留他。
"After a lot of the police talking to each other and to their superiors through their radios, the policeman in the van with me told me that I'd be de-arrested and taken home, but that I would be contacted and asked to give an interview at a later date. He said I could still be charged with something. Even at this point they hadn't answered my questions about under what law I'd been arrested under."
“在警察多次通过无线电与上级交谈之后，和我一起坐在面包车里的警察告诉我，我将被解除逮捕并带回家，但他们会联系我，并要求我在晚些时候接受质询。他说我还是有可能被指控。即使在这一点上，他们也没有回答我的问题——我是根据什么法律被捕的。”
“在警察多次通过无线电与上级交谈之后，和我一起坐在面包车里的警察告诉我，我将被解除逮捕并带回家，但他们会联系我，并要求我在晚些时候接受质询。他说我还是有可能被指控。即使在这一点上，他们也没有回答我的问题——我是根据什么法律被捕的。”
Hill said he was told by police officers on the drive home that he had been arrested under the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, a controversial piece of legislation introduced this year which widens police powers to clamp down on protests.
希尔说，在开车回家的路上，警察告诉他，他是根据《警察、犯罪、量刑和法院2022法案》被捕的。该法案是今年推出的一项有争议的立法，它扩大了警察镇压抗议活动的权力。
希尔说，在开车回家的路上，警察告诉他，他是根据《警察、犯罪、量刑和法院2022法案》被捕的。该法案是今年推出的一项有争议的立法，它扩大了警察镇压抗议活动的权力。
However, a statement from Thames Valley Police to CNN on Wednesday said Hill had been arrested under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986, which covers offenses causing "harassment, alarm or distress."
然而，泰晤士河谷警方周三给CNN的一份声明称，希尔是根据1986年《公共秩序法》第5节被捕的，该法案涵盖了造成“制造骚扰、寻衅滋事”的犯罪行为。
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然而，泰晤士河谷警方周三给CNN的一份声明称，希尔是根据1986年《公共秩序法》第5节被捕的，该法案涵盖了造成“制造骚扰、寻衅滋事”的犯罪行为。
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The confusion shows the uncertainty surrounding the right to free expression in the UK, after the 2022 Act "broaden[ed] the range of circumstances in which police may impose conditions on a protest." Under clause 78 of the new Act, it is an offense for protesters to "intentionally or recklessly caus[e] public nuisance" -- including causing "serious annoyance."
这一混乱表明，在2022年法案“扩大了警方对抗议活动施加条件的情况范围”之后，英国言论自由权的不确定性。根据新法案第78条，抗议者“故意或不顾后果地造成公共妨害”——包括造成“严重骚扰”——均属犯罪。
这一混乱表明，在2022年法案“扩大了警方对抗议活动施加条件的情况范围”之后，英国言论自由权的不确定性。根据新法案第78条，抗议者“故意或不顾后果地造成公共妨害”——包括造成“严重骚扰”——均属犯罪。
'Where does it end?'
“何时是个头？”
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“何时是个头？”
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Speaking to CNN, Steve Peers, a professor of EU and human rights law at the University of Essex, noted how wide these new police powers can be. "All you need to do is find one person -- which wouldn't be hard in a crowd of people who were mostly paying respects to the Queen -- to be offended by someone who is there to protest the monarchy as a whole."
埃塞克斯大学欧盟和人权法教授史蒂夫·皮尔斯在接受CNN采访时指出，这些新的警察权力可以有多么广泛。“你所需要做的就是找到一个人——这在一群主要是向女王致敬的人当中并不难——被一个抗议整个君主制的人冒犯即可。”
埃塞克斯大学欧盟和人权法教授史蒂夫·皮尔斯在接受CNN采访时指出，这些新的警察权力可以有多么广泛。“你所需要做的就是找到一个人——这在一群主要是向女王致敬的人当中并不难——被一个抗议整个君主制的人冒犯即可。”
"You could equally say that anybody holding up a sign saying 'We love the monarchy' is being seriously annoying to somebody who doesn't like the monarch. Where does it end?"
“你也可以说，任何人举着写着‘我们爱君主制’的牌子，都会让不喜欢君主的人非常恼火。何时是个头？”
“你也可以说，任何人举着写着‘我们爱君主制’的牌子，都会让不喜欢君主的人非常恼火。何时是个头？”
Paul Powlesland, a London barrister, was at work on Monday when he saw media reports of protesters being arrested for expressing anti-monarchy opinions. "In these moments when the consensus is so uniform, that's when free speech is most at risk. I thought it was important to go down and make a point about freedom of expression," he told CNN.
周一，伦敦律师保罗·鲍威尔斯兰在工作时看到媒体报道称，抗议者因表达反君主制观点而被捕。“在这些共识如此一致的时刻，正是言论自由面临最大风险的时候。我认为重要的是走下去，阐明言论自由的观点，”他告诉CNN。
周一，伦敦律师保罗·鲍威尔斯兰在工作时看到媒体报道称，抗议者因表达反君主制观点而被捕。“在这些共识如此一致的时刻，正是言论自由面临最大风险的时候。我认为重要的是走下去，阐明言论自由的观点，”他告诉CNN。
Like Hill, Powlesland said he did not want to interrupt expressions of royal mourning. He did not travel to Buckingham Palace, where people were paying their respects to the Queen. Rather, he went to Parliament Square, a traditional site of political protest in London, opposite the Houses of Parliament.
和希尔一样，鲍威尔斯兰说他不想打断人们对王室哀悼的表达。他没有前往白金汉宫，那里的人们正在向女王致敬。相反，他去了议会广场，这是伦敦传统的政治抗议场所，就在议会大厦对面。
和希尔一样，鲍威尔斯兰说他不想打断人们对王室哀悼的表达。他没有前往白金汉宫，那里的人们正在向女王致敬。相反，他去了议会广场，这是伦敦传统的政治抗议场所，就在议会大厦对面。
Powlesland stood alone and held up a blank piece of paper. Within a few minutes, he said "a police officer came up and asked for my details. He said if I wrote 'Not my King' on it, I would probably be arrested because it's offensive under the Public Order Act."
波利斯兰独自站着，举着一张白纸。几分钟后，他说：“一名警察过来询问我的详细信息。他说如果我在上面写‘不是我的国王’，我可能会被逮捕，因为这违反了《公共秩序法》。”
波利斯兰独自站着，举着一张白纸。几分钟后，他说：“一名警察过来询问我的详细信息。他说如果我在上面写‘不是我的国王’，我可能会被逮捕，因为这违反了《公共秩序法》。”
"I couldn't risk actually writing anything on it because I couldn't be arrested because I had to represent my client in a tribunal the next morning. That's the crucial point: Even the threat of arrest has a very chilling effect on free speech and the right to protest."
“我不能冒险在上面写任何东西，因为我不能被逮捕，因为第二天早上我必须代表我的客户出庭。这是关键的一点：即使是逮捕的威胁，也会对言论自由和抗议权利产生非常可怕的影响。”
“我不能冒险在上面写任何东西，因为我不能被逮捕，因为第二天早上我必须代表我的客户出庭。这是关键的一点：即使是逮捕的威胁，也会对言论自由和抗议权利产生非常可怕的影响。”
Powlesland posted a video of the interaction with the officer on Twitter, which has since been viewed more than 1.4 million times.
鲍威尔斯兰在推特上发布了一段与警察互动的视频，该视频已经被观看了140多万次。
鲍威尔斯兰在推特上发布了一段与警察互动的视频，该视频已经被观看了140多万次。
CNN asked the Metropolitan Police to confirm their stance on those expressing anti-monarchy views. The Met responded: "People have a right to freedom of expression and we must balance the rights of protesters with those of others who wish to grieve and respect."
CNN要求伦敦警察厅确认他们对那些表达反君主制观点的人的立场。伦敦警察厅回应称：“人们有言论自由的权利，我们必须在抗议者的权利与希望哀悼和尊重他人的权利之间取得平衡。”
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CNN要求伦敦警察厅确认他们对那些表达反君主制观点的人的立场。伦敦警察厅回应称：“人们有言论自由的权利，我们必须在抗议者的权利与希望哀悼和尊重他人的权利之间取得平衡。”
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'A dangerous precedent'
“一个危险的先例”
“一个危险的先例”
Meanwhile, in an isolated incident in the Scottish capital on Monday, a 22-year-old man was arrested "in connection with a breach of the peace on the Royal Mile," Britain's PA Media news agency reported.
与此同时，据英国PA媒体通讯社报道，周一在苏格兰首都发生的一起孤立事件中，一名22岁的男子因“涉嫌扰乱皇家英里大道的治安”而被捕。
与此同时，据英国PA媒体通讯社报道，周一在苏格兰首都发生的一起孤立事件中，一名22岁的男子因“涉嫌扰乱皇家英里大道的治安”而被捕。
Thousands of mourners lined the streets in Edinburgh as the Queen's hearse, accompanied by members of the royal family, proceeded from the Palace of Holyroodhouse to St. Giles' Cathedral. Police Scotland said a member of the crowd broke the silence by heckling Prince Andrew, calling him "a sick old man."
当女王的灵车在王室成员的陪同下从荷里路德宫驶往圣贾尔斯大教堂时，成千上万的哀悼者站在爱丁堡街头。苏格兰警方表示，人群中一名成员打破沉默，起哄安德鲁王子，称他为“一个生病的老头”。
当女王的灵车在王室成员的陪同下从荷里路德宫驶往圣贾尔斯大教堂时，成千上万的哀悼者站在爱丁堡街头。苏格兰警方表示，人群中一名成员打破沉默，起哄安德鲁王子，称他为“一个生病的老头”。
Whether police are cracking down using powers under the Public Order Act 1986 or the recently-established Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, there are freedom of expression concerns.
无论警方是利用《1986年公共秩序法》还是最近制定的《警察、犯罪、量刑和法院法2022》赋予的权力进行镇压，都存在言论自由的问题。
无论警方是利用《1986年公共秩序法》还是最近制定的《警察、犯罪、量刑和法院法2022》赋予的权力进行镇压，都存在言论自由的问题。
Liberty said in a statement to CNN: "The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act has made it much harder for people to stand up for what they believe without facing the risk of criminalization ... As we've already seen this week, this is stifling our freedom to protest, and setting a dangerous precedent for the future."
“自由”在给CNN的一份声明中表示：“《警察、犯罪、量刑和法院法案》让人们在不面临刑事犯罪风险的情况下，更难以坚持自己的信仰……正如我们本周已经看到的，这扼杀了我们的抗议自由，并为未来树立了一个危险的先例。”
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“自由”在给CNN的一份声明中表示：“《警察、犯罪、量刑和法院法案》让人们在不面临刑事犯罪风险的情况下，更难以坚持自己的信仰……正如我们本周已经看到的，这扼杀了我们的抗议自由，并为未来树立了一个危险的先例。”
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评论翻译
Raspberry-Famous
The monarchy is fine because it's just a powerless figurehead, but if you make fun of them you'll go to jail.
君主制没问题，因为它只是一个没有权力的有名无实的首脑，但如果你取笑他们，你就会进监狱。
The monarchy is fine because it's just a powerless figurehead, but if you make fun of them you'll go to jail.
君主制没问题，因为它只是一个没有权力的有名无实的首脑，但如果你取笑他们，你就会进监狱。
EmbarrassedHelp
A powerless figurehead that gets to review and critic legislation before its publicly introduced.
一个在立法被公开提出之前就有权审查和批评立法的“没有权力”的有名无实的首脑。
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A powerless figurehead that gets to review and critic legislation before its publicly introduced.
一个在立法被公开提出之前就有权审查和批评立法的“没有权力”的有名无实的首脑。
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mces97
Yeah I went to England like 30 years ago. I remember one of the tour guides taking us to Hyde Park where a lot of people speak their mind. Tour guide said we can say anything, except bad mouth the Queen.
是的，我大概30年前去了英国。我记得有个导游带我们去海德公园，那里很多人都有话直说。导游说我们可以说任何话，除了不能说女王的坏话。
Yeah I went to England like 30 years ago. I remember one of the tour guides taking us to Hyde Park where a lot of people speak their mind. Tour guide said we can say anything, except bad mouth the Queen.
是的，我大概30年前去了英国。我记得有个导游带我们去海德公园，那里很多人都有话直说。导游说我们可以说任何话，除了不能说女王的坏话。
Dos_Manos
I mean, maybe he would lose his job as a guide because bad mouthing the queen looks bad on a company that gives tours to, I assume, Buckingham Palace. But normal people bad mouth her and the royal family all the time. I'm British, and many of us wish we'd followed the French and executed every last one of them while we had the chance.
我想说，他可能会因此丢掉导游的工作，因为说女王坏话在一家我猜是经营白金汉宫旅游线路的旅游公司里会显得很糟糕。但是普通人总是说她和皇室的坏话。我是英国人，我们中的许多人都希望我们当初能像法国人一样在有机会的时候处决他们中的每一个人。
I mean, maybe he would lose his job as a guide because bad mouthing the queen looks bad on a company that gives tours to, I assume, Buckingham Palace. But normal people bad mouth her and the royal family all the time. I'm British, and many of us wish we'd followed the French and executed every last one of them while we had the chance.
我想说，他可能会因此丢掉导游的工作，因为说女王坏话在一家我猜是经营白金汉宫旅游线路的旅游公司里会显得很糟糕。但是普通人总是说她和皇室的坏话。我是英国人，我们中的许多人都希望我们当初能像法国人一样在有机会的时候处决他们中的每一个人。
RocinanteCoffee
They aren't powerless figureheads.
Lizzy tried to divert funds from a poverty fund to heat palaces she wasn't even staying in and nobody was living in (the staff had separate buildings).
She made decisions that supported the subjugation of millions of people in British colonies.
She used the money of UK to grow her family's wealth and protect her pedo family members.
The queen had secret and private veto power that prevented legislation from being put forward.
She could appoint and dismiss ministers.
"Beginning in Malaya, then in Kenya, Cyprus, Nyasaland, Aden, and Northern Ireland, British security forces moved through the empire and acted in the Queen’s name, unleashing wide-scale detention without trial and illegal deportations. In Malaya and Kenya, they forcibly relocated hundreds of thousands of subjects into barbed-wire villages where forced labor and starvation were forms of colonial control. In each conflict, kill squads were deployed and populations terrorized. In Cyprus, journalists called interrogators HMTs, Her Majesty’s Torturers."
他们不是“没有权力的有名无实的首脑”。
女王试图从一笔贫困基金中挪用资金，为她甚至都没住过、也没人住的宫殿供暖（工作人员有单独的住宿楼）。
她做出了支持征服英国殖民地数百万人的决定。
她用英国的钱来增加她的家庭财富和保护她的孩子的家庭成员。
女王拥有秘密和私人的否决权，阻止立法的提出。
她可以任免大臣。
“从马来亚开始，然后是肯尼亚、塞浦路斯、尼亚萨兰、亚丁和北爱尔兰，英国安全部队在整个帝国行动，以女王的名义采取行动，在未经审判的情况下进行大规模拘留和非法驱逐。在马来亚和肯尼亚，他们强行将成千上万的臣民转移到有铁丝网的村庄，强迫劳动和饥饿是殖民控制的形式。在每一次冲突中，都部署了敢死队，恐吓民众。在塞浦路斯，记者称审讯者为HMT，即女王陛下的拷问者。”
They aren't powerless figureheads.
Lizzy tried to divert funds from a poverty fund to heat palaces she wasn't even staying in and nobody was living in (the staff had separate buildings).
She made decisions that supported the subjugation of millions of people in British colonies.
She used the money of UK to grow her family's wealth and protect her pedo family members.
The queen had secret and private veto power that prevented legislation from being put forward.
She could appoint and dismiss ministers.
"Beginning in Malaya, then in Kenya, Cyprus, Nyasaland, Aden, and Northern Ireland, British security forces moved through the empire and acted in the Queen’s name, unleashing wide-scale detention without trial and illegal deportations. In Malaya and Kenya, they forcibly relocated hundreds of thousands of subjects into barbed-wire villages where forced labor and starvation were forms of colonial control. In each conflict, kill squads were deployed and populations terrorized. In Cyprus, journalists called interrogators HMTs, Her Majesty’s Torturers."
他们不是“没有权力的有名无实的首脑”。
女王试图从一笔贫困基金中挪用资金，为她甚至都没住过、也没人住的宫殿供暖（工作人员有单独的住宿楼）。
她做出了支持征服英国殖民地数百万人的决定。
她用英国的钱来增加她的家庭财富和保护她的孩子的家庭成员。
女王拥有秘密和私人的否决权，阻止立法的提出。
她可以任免大臣。
“从马来亚开始，然后是肯尼亚、塞浦路斯、尼亚萨兰、亚丁和北爱尔兰，英国安全部队在整个帝国行动，以女王的名义采取行动，在未经审判的情况下进行大规模拘留和非法驱逐。在马来亚和肯尼亚，他们强行将成千上万的臣民转移到有铁丝网的村庄，强迫劳动和饥饿是殖民控制的形式。在每一次冲突中，都部署了敢死队，恐吓民众。在塞浦路斯，记者称审讯者为HMT，即女王陛下的拷问者。”
BIackfjsh
They aren't powerless figureheads.
Yeah, agreed. While they don’t have true hard power, it’s pretty clear they wield a degree of soft power. Elizabeth shielding her pedo son from prosecution is a perfect example of that.
Lizzy tried to divert funds from a poverty fund to heat palaces she wasn't even staying in and nobody was living in (the staff had separate buildings).
Ohhhh, hadn’t heard of this one. When did this come out?
She made decisions that supported the subjugation of millions of people in British colonies.
She did specifically or The Prime Minister/Parliament that has the real hard power did?
She used the money of UK to grow her family's wealth and protect her pedo family members
Like I said, she definitely did have soft power which she used for covering up for her pedo family members and that should be enough to sink the monarchies credibility all by itself but we keep bringing up debatable stuff along with that and I think it waters down the well earned criticism. Using money and growing wealth is a pretty debatable part of this since the monarch does not administer the crown estate.
“他们不是‘没有权力的有名无实的首脑’”
是的，赞同。虽然他们没有真正的硬权力，但很明显，他们拥有一定程度的软权力。伊丽莎白保护她乖巧的儿子不被起诉就是一个很好的例子。
“女王试图从一笔贫困基金中挪用资金，为她甚至都没住过、也没人住的宫殿供暖（工作人员有单独的住宿楼）”
哦，还没听说过这个。什么时候爆出来的？
“她做出了支持征服英国殖民地数百万人的决定”
是她做的，还是真正有硬权力的首相/议会做的？
“她用英国的钱来增加她的家庭财富和保护她的孩子的家庭成员”
就像我说的，她确实有软权力，她用它来掩盖她的家庭成员，这应该足以摧毁君主制的信誉，但我们一直在提出有争议的东西，我认为这冲淡了应得的批评。使用金钱和财富增长是一个相当有争议的部分，因为君主不管理皇家财产。
They aren't powerless figureheads.
Yeah, agreed. While they don’t have true hard power, it’s pretty clear they wield a degree of soft power. Elizabeth shielding her pedo son from prosecution is a perfect example of that.
Lizzy tried to divert funds from a poverty fund to heat palaces she wasn't even staying in and nobody was living in (the staff had separate buildings).
Ohhhh, hadn’t heard of this one. When did this come out?
She made decisions that supported the subjugation of millions of people in British colonies.
She did specifically or The Prime Minister/Parliament that has the real hard power did?
She used the money of UK to grow her family's wealth and protect her pedo family members
Like I said, she definitely did have soft power which she used for covering up for her pedo family members and that should be enough to sink the monarchies credibility all by itself but we keep bringing up debatable stuff along with that and I think it waters down the well earned criticism. Using money and growing wealth is a pretty debatable part of this since the monarch does not administer the crown estate.
“他们不是‘没有权力的有名无实的首脑’”
是的，赞同。虽然他们没有真正的硬权力，但很明显，他们拥有一定程度的软权力。伊丽莎白保护她乖巧的儿子不被起诉就是一个很好的例子。
“女王试图从一笔贫困基金中挪用资金，为她甚至都没住过、也没人住的宫殿供暖（工作人员有单独的住宿楼）”
哦，还没听说过这个。什么时候爆出来的？
“她做出了支持征服英国殖民地数百万人的决定”
是她做的，还是真正有硬权力的首相/议会做的？
“她用英国的钱来增加她的家庭财富和保护她的孩子的家庭成员”
就像我说的，她确实有软权力，她用它来掩盖她的家庭成员，这应该足以摧毁君主制的信誉，但我们一直在提出有争议的东西，我认为这冲淡了应得的批评。使用金钱和财富增长是一个相当有争议的部分，因为君主不管理皇家财产。
The queen had secret and private veto power that prevented legislation from being put forward.
She technically has this power, yes, but to exercise it against the will of the House of Commons, and therefore the people, would practically seal the destruction of the monarchy itself from what I understand. Is there an example where she vetoed legislation?
She could appoint and dismiss ministers
Right, but a constitutional monarch does not make any personal appointments or dismissals to my knowledge. Is there any example where Elizabeth did that?
"Beginning in Malaya, then in Kenya, Cyprus, Nyasaland, Aden, and Northern Ireland, British security forces moved through the empire and acted in the Queen’s name, unleashing wide-scale detention without trial and illegal deportations. In Malaya and Kenya, they forcibly relocated hundreds of thousands of subjects into barbed-wire villages where forced labor and starvation were forms of colonial control. In each conflict, kill squads were deployed and populations terrorized. In Cyprus, journalists called interrogators HMTs, Her Majesty’s Torturers."
This is all very bad but this is the British government doing this. This wasn’t ordered by the monarch, it was ordered by the leaders of parliament. A constitutional monarch never counters its governments will no matter how good or bad, no matter what the monarch thinks personally.
Protecting pedophiles, serial abuse of its own family members, and disgusting displays of opulence are things the royal family are irrefutably guilty of. Bringing up whether the queen did a genocide herself is just going to distract from that, I think
“女王拥有秘密和私人的否决权，阻止立法的提出”
从技术上讲，她是有这个权力的，但如果违背下议院的意愿，也就是违背人民的意愿，就我所知，这实际上意味着君主制的毁灭。有没有她否决立法的例子？
“她可以任免大臣”
没错，但据我所知，立宪制君主是不能进行任何个人任命或罢免的。有伊丽莎白这样做的例子吗？
“从马来亚开始，然后是肯尼亚、塞浦路斯、尼亚萨兰、亚丁和北爱尔兰，英国安全部队在整个帝国行动，以女王的名义采取行动，在未经审判的情况下进行大规模拘留和非法驱逐。在马来亚和肯尼亚，他们强行将成千上万的臣民转移到有铁丝网的村庄，强迫劳动和饥饿是殖民控制的形式。在每一次冲突中，都部署了敢死队，恐吓民众。在塞浦路斯，记者称审讯者为HMT，即女王陛下的拷问者。”
这一切都很糟糕，但这是英国政府做的。这不是君主下的命令，而是议会领袖下的命令。立宪君主从不反对政府的意志，无论好坏，无论君主个人怎么想。
保护恋童癖者，连环虐待自己的家庭成员，以及令人厌恶的财富展示，这些都是王室家族无可辩驳的罪行。我认为，提起女王是否亲自进行了种族屠杀只会转移人们对这件事的注意力
She technically has this power, yes, but to exercise it against the will of the House of Commons, and therefore the people, would practically seal the destruction of the monarchy itself from what I understand. Is there an example where she vetoed legislation?
She could appoint and dismiss ministers
Right, but a constitutional monarch does not make any personal appointments or dismissals to my knowledge. Is there any example where Elizabeth did that?
"Beginning in Malaya, then in Kenya, Cyprus, Nyasaland, Aden, and Northern Ireland, British security forces moved through the empire and acted in the Queen’s name, unleashing wide-scale detention without trial and illegal deportations. In Malaya and Kenya, they forcibly relocated hundreds of thousands of subjects into barbed-wire villages where forced labor and starvation were forms of colonial control. In each conflict, kill squads were deployed and populations terrorized. In Cyprus, journalists called interrogators HMTs, Her Majesty’s Torturers."
This is all very bad but this is the British government doing this. This wasn’t ordered by the monarch, it was ordered by the leaders of parliament. A constitutional monarch never counters its governments will no matter how good or bad, no matter what the monarch thinks personally.
Protecting pedophiles, serial abuse of its own family members, and disgusting displays of opulence are things the royal family are irrefutably guilty of. Bringing up whether the queen did a genocide herself is just going to distract from that, I think
“女王拥有秘密和私人的否决权，阻止立法的提出”
从技术上讲，她是有这个权力的，但如果违背下议院的意愿，也就是违背人民的意愿，就我所知，这实际上意味着君主制的毁灭。有没有她否决立法的例子？
“她可以任免大臣”
没错，但据我所知，立宪制君主是不能进行任何个人任命或罢免的。有伊丽莎白这样做的例子吗？
“从马来亚开始，然后是肯尼亚、塞浦路斯、尼亚萨兰、亚丁和北爱尔兰，英国安全部队在整个帝国行动，以女王的名义采取行动，在未经审判的情况下进行大规模拘留和非法驱逐。在马来亚和肯尼亚，他们强行将成千上万的臣民转移到有铁丝网的村庄，强迫劳动和饥饿是殖民控制的形式。在每一次冲突中，都部署了敢死队，恐吓民众。在塞浦路斯，记者称审讯者为HMT，即女王陛下的拷问者。”
这一切都很糟糕，但这是英国政府做的。这不是君主下的命令，而是议会领袖下的命令。立宪君主从不反对政府的意志，无论好坏，无论君主个人怎么想。
保护恋童癖者，连环虐待自己的家庭成员，以及令人厌恶的财富展示，这些都是王室家族无可辩驳的罪行。我认为，提起女王是否亲自进行了种族屠杀只会转移人们对这件事的注意力
BioDriver
This is why it’s important to have true freedom of speech.
这就是为什么拥有真正的言论自由很重要。
This is why it’s important to have true freedom of speech.
这就是为什么拥有真正的言论自由很重要。
Tough_Ambassador3935
Yes, guaranteed via a written constitution.
The UK claims to have an "unwritten constitution." As situations like this show, an "unwritten constitution" is often as valuable as, say, an unwritten novel.
是的，这是通过成文宪法保障的。
英国声称有一部“不成文宪法”。像这样的情况表明，一部“不成文的宪法”的价值通常和一部不成文的小说一样。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yes, guaranteed via a written constitution.
The UK claims to have an "unwritten constitution." As situations like this show, an "unwritten constitution" is often as valuable as, say, an unwritten novel.
是的，这是通过成文宪法保障的。
英国声称有一部“不成文宪法”。像这样的情况表明，一部“不成文的宪法”的价值通常和一部不成文的小说一样。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Mist_Rising
It's actually worse then that. The UK does have a constitution in the form of multiple documents and acts of Parliament.. sounds good right? The method in which they create them is the simple majority of the commons agreement.
That's it. If half the Parliament decides something, that's what is. You can see why a constitution where a simple majority is needed to change it doesn't really have much value I imagine.
Imagine if the US constitution could be changed by simple majority of one chamber.
实际情况比这更糟。英国确实有一部由多个文件和议会法案组成的宪法。听起来不错吧？他们创造它们的方法是公共协议的简单多数。
就是这样。如果半数议会决定了什么，那就是什么。你可以看到为什么一个需要简单多数才能修改的宪法，我认为它没有多大价值。
想象一下，假如美国宪法可以通过一个议院的简单多数来改变。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It's actually worse then that. The UK does have a constitution in the form of multiple documents and acts of Parliament.. sounds good right? The method in which they create them is the simple majority of the commons agreement.
That's it. If half the Parliament decides something, that's what is. You can see why a constitution where a simple majority is needed to change it doesn't really have much value I imagine.
Imagine if the US constitution could be changed by simple majority of one chamber.
实际情况比这更糟。英国确实有一部由多个文件和议会法案组成的宪法。听起来不错吧？他们创造它们的方法是公共协议的简单多数。
就是这样。如果半数议会决定了什么，那就是什么。你可以看到为什么一个需要简单多数才能修改的宪法，我认为它没有多大价值。
想象一下，假如美国宪法可以通过一个议院的简单多数来改变。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
focusedhocuspocus
What, you can’t even hold a protest sign over there? If anything, that cements the perception that the monarchy isn’t just a quaint relic for tourism and ceremonial roles; it has actual power that it shouldn’t. Sheesh. I did not expect that of the UK.
什么，你连个抗议牌都不能举吗？如果要说什么的话，那就是强化了这样一种看法，即君主制不只是“旅游和礼仪角色的复古遗迹”；它有它不该有的权力。天哪。我没想到英国会这样。
What, you can’t even hold a protest sign over there? If anything, that cements the perception that the monarchy isn’t just a quaint relic for tourism and ceremonial roles; it has actual power that it shouldn’t. Sheesh. I did not expect that of the UK.
什么，你连个抗议牌都不能举吗？如果要说什么的话，那就是强化了这样一种看法，即君主制不只是“旅游和礼仪角色的复古遗迹”；它有它不该有的权力。天哪。我没想到英国会这样。
Pixel_Knight
It’s archaic, and apparently happy to wield brutal, anti-democratic power. Time to degrade them to normal citizens.
它是古老的，显然喜欢使用残酷的、反民主的权力。是时候把他们降级为普通公民了。
It’s archaic, and apparently happy to wield brutal, anti-democratic power. Time to degrade them to normal citizens.
它是古老的，显然喜欢使用残酷的、反民主的权力。是时候把他们降级为普通公民了。
NovaNTS
I love that America has free speech. Probably the best thing you guys have done. Over in Ireland and the UK it’s different. Hell, Stephen Fry almost got charged with blasphemy for speaking out against god in Ireland.
我喜欢美国的言论自由。这可能是你们做过的最好的事。在爱尔兰和英国就不一样了。史蒂芬·弗莱差点因为在爱尔兰公然反对上帝而被指控“亵渎神明”。
I love that America has free speech. Probably the best thing you guys have done. Over in Ireland and the UK it’s different. Hell, Stephen Fry almost got charged with blasphemy for speaking out against god in Ireland.
我喜欢美国的言论自由。这可能是你们做过的最好的事。在爱尔兰和英国就不一样了。史蒂芬·弗莱差点因为在爱尔兰公然反对上帝而被指控“亵渎神明”。
whycarbon
we have free speech on paper and in our hearts, but that did nothing to stop the tear gas cannisters from entering our skulls in 2020. american free speech is like a magic spell we cast to make us feel real good when other countries crack down on their protests. really sucks that our constitution was written on the same decrepit paper as every other and didnt float down from the heavens on jesus's foreskin like we pretend it did, maybe the cops wouldnt execute someone every other day if it did.
我们在纸上和心里都有言论自由，但这并不能阻止2020年催泪弹进入我们的头骨。美国的言论自由就像我们施下的魔法，当看到其他国家镇压他们的抗议时，我们会感觉很好。这真的很糟糕，我们的宪法是写在和其他国家一样的旧纸上，而不是像我们假装的那样从天堂里上帝的包皮上降临下来的。如果真的是这样，也许警察就不会每隔一天就处决一个人了。
we have free speech on paper and in our hearts, but that did nothing to stop the tear gas cannisters from entering our skulls in 2020. american free speech is like a magic spell we cast to make us feel real good when other countries crack down on their protests. really sucks that our constitution was written on the same decrepit paper as every other and didnt float down from the heavens on jesus's foreskin like we pretend it did, maybe the cops wouldnt execute someone every other day if it did.
我们在纸上和心里都有言论自由，但这并不能阻止2020年催泪弹进入我们的头骨。美国的言论自由就像我们施下的魔法，当看到其他国家镇压他们的抗议时，我们会感觉很好。这真的很糟糕，我们的宪法是写在和其他国家一样的旧纸上，而不是像我们假装的那样从天堂里上帝的包皮上降临下来的。如果真的是这样，也许警察就不会每隔一天就处决一个人了。
bogginman
Peasant Woman: Who are you?
King Charles: I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
King Charles: You don't vote for kings.
Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then?
King Charles: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine...
农妇：你是谁？
查尔斯国王：我是你们的国王。
农妇：好吧，我没有投你的票。
查尔斯国王：国王不需要你的票。
农妇：那你是怎么当上国王的？
查尔斯国王：湖上夫人，她的手臂上披着最纯洁的闪闪发光的锦绣，从水的怀抱中高举着王者之剑，象征着神圣的……
Peasant Woman: Who are you?
King Charles: I am your king.
Peasant Woman: Well, I didn't vote for you.
King Charles: You don't vote for kings.
Peasant Woman: Well, how'd you become king, then?
King Charles: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine...
农妇：你是谁？
查尔斯国王：我是你们的国王。
农妇：好吧，我没有投你的票。
查尔斯国王：国王不需要你的票。
农妇：那你是怎么当上国王的？
查尔斯国王：湖上夫人，她的手臂上披着最纯洁的闪闪发光的锦绣，从水的怀抱中高举着王者之剑，象征着神圣的……
Rustic41
The last week has been insufferable with the sycophantic outpouring of enforced grief over the death of a 96 year of colonial billionaire. The police response has been disgusting
上周是令人难以忍受的一周，人们对一位生活了96年的亿万殖民富豪的去世表示出谄媚的悲痛。警方的反应令人作呕
The last week has been insufferable with the sycophantic outpouring of enforced grief over the death of a 96 year of colonial billionaire. The police response has been disgusting
上周是令人难以忍受的一周，人们对一位生活了96年的亿万殖民富豪的去世表示出谄媚的悲痛。警方的反应令人作呕
OldandBoldDude
As a person whom does not live in UK, concept of monarchy is total foreign and unnecessary to me.
I am not condemning nor approving, just don’t understand it.
作为一个不住在英国的人，君主制的概念对我来说是完全陌生和不必要的。
我不谴责也不赞成，只是不理解。
As a person whom does not live in UK, concept of monarchy is total foreign and unnecessary to me.
I am not condemning nor approving, just don’t understand it.
作为一个不住在英国的人，君主制的概念对我来说是完全陌生和不必要的。
我不谴责也不赞成，只是不理解。
BlueJay_NE
If you think the monarchy “rules” over Great Britain, then congratulations! You’ve just proven you’re rather low on the intellect spectrum (a nice way of saying you’re dumber than dirt). The monarchy are figureheads. They have nothing to do with enacting and maintaining the laws in Great Britain.
如果你认为是君主制在“统治”着大不列颠，那么恭喜你！你已经证明了你的智力水平很低（这是说你比无机物还笨的一种委婉说法）。君主政体是有名无实的首脑。他们与英国法律的制定和维护毫无关系。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
If you think the monarchy “rules” over Great Britain, then congratulations! You’ve just proven you’re rather low on the intellect spectrum (a nice way of saying you’re dumber than dirt). The monarchy are figureheads. They have nothing to do with enacting and maintaining the laws in Great Britain.
如果你认为是君主制在“统治”着大不列颠，那么恭喜你！你已经证明了你的智力水平很低（这是说你比无机物还笨的一种委婉说法）。君主政体是有名无实的首脑。他们与英国法律的制定和维护毫无关系。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Schwarzer_Koffer
Everyone knows that the crown controls the house of lords. They are also the de facto leaders of the army.
大家都知道国王控制着上议院。他们也是军队的实际领导人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Everyone knows that the crown controls the house of lords. They are also the de facto leaders of the army.
大家都知道国王控制着上议院。他们也是军队的实际领导人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
ripyourlungsdave
All this shit makes me wonder why the queen was allowed to get away with so much shit and still be beloved, but somehow the new guy is being protested as soon as he's put in place.
所有这些都让我想知道为什么女王被允许做了这么多坏事却仍然受到爱戴，但不知怎么的，继位者刚上任就遭到了抗议。
All this shit makes me wonder why the queen was allowed to get away with so much shit and still be beloved, but somehow the new guy is being protested as soon as he's put in place.
所有这些都让我想知道为什么女王被允许做了这么多坏事却仍然受到爱戴，但不知怎么的，继位者刚上任就遭到了抗议。
HybridEng
King Charles needs to rally support. Fall back on old standbys with the British. Invade France!!! There's a tunnel now, will be much easier than before...
查理国王需要重新聚拢支持。回到与英国人打交道的老办法上来——入侵法国！！！现在有一条隧道，比以前方便多了……
King Charles needs to rally support. Fall back on old standbys with the British. Invade France!!! There's a tunnel now, will be much easier than before...
查理国王需要重新聚拢支持。回到与英国人打交道的老办法上来——入侵法国！！！现在有一条隧道，比以前方便多了……
taptapper
Then the French would just close the security booths and cause an invasion bottleneck :D
然后法国人就会关闭安检亭，制造入侵瓶颈:D
Then the French would just close the security booths and cause an invasion bottleneck :D
然后法国人就会关闭安检亭，制造入侵瓶颈:D
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