人类历史上做过的最恐怖的实验有哪些?（一）
正文翻译
What are some of the creepiest experiments ever done in human history?
人类历史上做过的最恐怖的实验有哪些?
What are some of the creepiest experiments ever done in human history?
人类历史上做过的最恐怖的实验有哪些?
评论翻译
随着实验的推进，唐纳德开始模仿瓜，发出黑猩猩的声音，也像黑猩猩一样走路。渐渐地，他变成了一个野蛮的孩子。这促使实验终止，因为他们原以为瓜会模仿唐纳德，而不是相反。
这个实验对唐纳德产生了持久的影响，他在43岁时自杀了。而瓜在与唐纳德分开一年后就去世了。
Chukwuebuka Sunday
Two psychologists, Luella and Winthrop Kellogg gave birth to a Son they called Donald. They decided to raise their child with a chimpanzee called 瓜, in an experiment to determine the effect of the environment on the development of chimpanzees and the possibility of humanizing the chimp.
This experiment was started when 瓜 was 7 months and Donald, 10 months old. They were raised like siblings, they ate the same time, wore the same cloth, had the same toys, and slept the same place.
As the experiment progressed, Donald started copying 瓜, making the sounds of a Chimp and also walked like one. Gradually he was becoming a feral child. This prompted the termination of the experiment as they had expected 瓜 to imitate Donald, not the opposite.
The experiment had a long-lasting effect on Donald who killed himself at the age of 43. While 瓜 died a year after she was separated from Donald.
Two psychologists, Luella and Winthrop Kellogg gave birth to a Son they called Donald. They decided to raise their child with a chimpanzee called 瓜, in an experiment to determine the effect of the environment on the development of chimpanzees and the possibility of humanizing the chimp.
This experiment was started when 瓜 was 7 months and Donald, 10 months old. They were raised like siblings, they ate the same time, wore the same cloth, had the same toys, and slept the same place.
As the experiment progressed, Donald started copying 瓜, making the sounds of a Chimp and also walked like one. Gradually he was becoming a feral child. This prompted the termination of the experiment as they had expected 瓜 to imitate Donald, not the opposite.
The experiment had a long-lasting effect on Donald who killed himself at the age of 43. While 瓜 died a year after she was separated from Donald.
The Most Bizarre Japanese Human Experiments
凯洛格的实验。
两位心理学家卢埃拉和温斯洛普·凯洛格生下了一个儿子，取名为唐纳德。他们决定和一只叫瓜的黑猩猩一起抚养他们的孩子，以确定环境对黑猩猩发育的影响以及将黑猩猩人性化的可能性。
这个实验开始时，瓜 7个月大，唐纳德10个月大。他们像兄弟姐妹一样被抚养长大，在同样的时间吃饭，穿同样的衣服，玩同样的玩具，睡在同样的地方。
凯洛格的实验。
两位心理学家卢埃拉和温斯洛普·凯洛格生下了一个儿子，取名为唐纳德。他们决定和一只叫瓜的黑猩猩一起抚养他们的孩子，以确定环境对黑猩猩发育的影响以及将黑猩猩人性化的可能性。
这个实验开始时，瓜 7个月大，唐纳德10个月大。他们像兄弟姐妹一样被抚养长大，在同样的时间吃饭，穿同样的衣服，玩同样的玩具，睡在同样的地方。
随着实验的推进，唐纳德开始模仿瓜，发出黑猩猩的声音，也像黑猩猩一样走路。渐渐地，他变成了一个野蛮的孩子。这促使实验终止，因为他们原以为瓜会模仿唐纳德，而不是相反。
这个实验对唐纳德产生了持久的影响，他在43岁时自杀了。而瓜在与唐纳德分开一年后就去世了。
Chukwuebuka Sunday
A clip of the experiment
这是实验片段。视频略
A clip of the experiment
这是实验片段。视频略
Hannah Madden
From the beginning, it’s clear that the chimp is establishing dominance over the child.
The message of the chimp walking the child like a dog, while the parent walks hand-in-hand with the chimp, shows the child the order of dominance.
And talking about putting the child through “300 trials” of a single experiment, is simply child abuse; along with putting the hood over his head.
This was back when people think that children couldn’t be traumatized by early experiences. But I think that this would be traumatic for any child, and they had no right to use a child as a guinea-pig.
从一开始，很明显黑猩猩就在建立对孩子的统治地位。
黑猩猩像狗一样牵着孩子走，而父母牵着黑猩猩走，这一信息向孩子展示了支配的顺序。
让孩子在一个实验中经历" 300次试验"简直就是虐待儿童。
那时候人们认为孩子不会因为早期的经历而受到创伤。但我认为这对任何孩子来说都是创伤性的，他们没有权利拿孩子当小白鼠。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
From the beginning, it’s clear that the chimp is establishing dominance over the child.
The message of the chimp walking the child like a dog, while the parent walks hand-in-hand with the chimp, shows the child the order of dominance.
And talking about putting the child through “300 trials” of a single experiment, is simply child abuse; along with putting the hood over his head.
This was back when people think that children couldn’t be traumatized by early experiences. But I think that this would be traumatic for any child, and they had no right to use a child as a guinea-pig.
从一开始，很明显黑猩猩就在建立对孩子的统治地位。
黑猩猩像狗一样牵着孩子走，而父母牵着黑猩猩走，这一信息向孩子展示了支配的顺序。
让孩子在一个实验中经历" 300次试验"简直就是虐待儿童。
那时候人们认为孩子不会因为早期的经历而受到创伤。但我认为这对任何孩子来说都是创伤性的，他们没有权利拿孩子当小白鼠。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Daniel Joseph
It is abuse, and we continue to abuse our children. We now inject toxins directly into their bloodstream at birth. We buy them phones and ipads as toddlers so their posture (which directly impacts immune system and organ function) is f*ed up. We give them “baby formula”, rather than breast milk like every othet animal in nature, and load them up with artificial, processed foods. We let kids dictate what gender they are, and fuck up their hormones, mental health, and future.
这是虐待，而且我们还在虐待我们的孩子。
我们现在把毒素直接注射到他们出生时的血液中。我们给蹒跚学步的孩子买手机和ipad，这样他们的姿势(直接影响免疫系统和器官功能)就被搞坏了。
我们给他们吃“婴儿配方奶粉”，而不是像自然界中其他动物一样吃母乳，给他们吃人工加工食品。我们让孩子们决定自己的性别，搞砸了他们的荷尔蒙、心理健康和未来。
It is abuse, and we continue to abuse our children. We now inject toxins directly into their bloodstream at birth. We buy them phones and ipads as toddlers so their posture (which directly impacts immune system and organ function) is f*ed up. We give them “baby formula”, rather than breast milk like every othet animal in nature, and load them up with artificial, processed foods. We let kids dictate what gender they are, and fuck up their hormones, mental health, and future.
这是虐待，而且我们还在虐待我们的孩子。
我们现在把毒素直接注射到他们出生时的血液中。我们给蹒跚学步的孩子买手机和ipad，这样他们的姿势(直接影响免疫系统和器官功能)就被搞坏了。
我们给他们吃“婴儿配方奶粉”，而不是像自然界中其他动物一样吃母乳，给他们吃人工加工食品。我们让孩子们决定自己的性别，搞砸了他们的荷尔蒙、心理健康和未来。
Saul Martino
Chimps mature faster tha. Human babies so the human.m child took cues from the older in mentality chimp.
黑猩猩比孩童成熟得快。人类的婴儿从心理上的年长猩猩那里得到了暗示。
Chimps mature faster tha. Human babies so the human.m child took cues from the older in mentality chimp.
黑猩猩比孩童成熟得快。人类的婴儿从心理上的年长猩猩那里得到了暗示。
Hannah Madden
Not just maturity,but also more inclined to behave according to intinct vs. learning-adaptation; particularly since humans learn fastest during infancy.
But it does show the absolute importance of the early environment, which is often ignored in favor of later learning; and how devastating the consequences.
不仅是成熟，而且更倾向于根据意图而不是学习以适应行为。特别是因为人类在婴儿期学习最快。
但它确实显示了早期环境的绝对重要性，以及后果的毁灭性，这一点经常被后期学习所忽视。
Not just maturity,but also more inclined to behave according to intinct vs. learning-adaptation; particularly since humans learn fastest during infancy.
But it does show the absolute importance of the early environment, which is often ignored in favor of later learning; and how devastating the consequences.
不仅是成熟，而且更倾向于根据意图而不是学习以适应行为。特别是因为人类在婴儿期学习最快。
但它确实显示了早期环境的绝对重要性，以及后果的毁灭性，这一点经常被后期学习所忽视。
Aditya Roy
Separation causes immense trauma on animals. The only explanation would be emotional attachment. But I think more than that, it is the sudden change in environment that alters their behavior and their dopamine response.
分别对动物造成巨大的创伤。唯一的解释就是情感依恋。
但我认为更重要的是，环境的突然变化改变了它们的行为和多巴胺反应。
Separation causes immense trauma on animals. The only explanation would be emotional attachment. But I think more than that, it is the sudden change in environment that alters their behavior and their dopamine response.
分别对动物造成巨大的创伤。唯一的解释就是情感依恋。
但我认为更重要的是，环境的突然变化改变了它们的行为和多巴胺反应。
Fabien Gerard
瓜’s death most probably due to BOTH emotional attachment + sudden change in daily environment… The moment the experiment was over, nobody kept taking care of the poor chimp as an ‘individual’, and even less as a traumatized guinea pig. Since the latter had lost any kind of scientific interest, in their eyes, I imagine they sent him back to the zoo (where he found himself totally ostracized after his long experience in a human family…). In other words, thrown away just like a used kleenex.
瓜的死很可能是由于情感依恋和日常环境的突然变化，在实验结束的那一刻，没有人继续把这只可怜的黑猩猩作为一个“个体”来照顾，更没有人把它作为一个受到创伤的小白鼠来照顾。
因为后者已经失去了任何科学兴趣，在他们看来，我想他们把他送回了动物园(在那里，他发现自己因在人类家庭中长期生活而完全被其他黑猩猩排斥了……)换句话说，就像用过的面巾纸一样被扔掉。
瓜’s death most probably due to BOTH emotional attachment + sudden change in daily environment… The moment the experiment was over, nobody kept taking care of the poor chimp as an ‘individual’, and even less as a traumatized guinea pig. Since the latter had lost any kind of scientific interest, in their eyes, I imagine they sent him back to the zoo (where he found himself totally ostracized after his long experience in a human family…). In other words, thrown away just like a used kleenex.
瓜的死很可能是由于情感依恋和日常环境的突然变化，在实验结束的那一刻，没有人继续把这只可怜的黑猩猩作为一个“个体”来照顾，更没有人把它作为一个受到创伤的小白鼠来照顾。
因为后者已经失去了任何科学兴趣，在他们看来，我想他们把他送回了动物园(在那里，他发现自己因在人类家庭中长期生活而完全被其他黑猩猩排斥了……)换句话说，就像用过的面巾纸一样被扔掉。
Paraa Hosaeini
I think more developed brains actually do mimicking ( a way of learning) much more strongly, specially at childhood. That's why this stage is damming important and experiences of this stage will remain for ever. That's also one of the reasons we don't see much smart animals and humans themselves don't evolved to a smarter creature. Smarter creatures become very very very vulnerable in young. Dear parents, this is serious, please, care your child. They need your 100% care. It's nothing like an experiment. It's very serious.
我认为更发达的大脑实际上会更强烈地模仿(一种学习方式)，特别是在儿童时期。这就是为什么这个阶段非常重要，这个阶段的经验将永远存在。这也是为什么我们很少看到聪明的动物，人类本身也没有进化成更聪明的生物。
聪明的生物在幼时变得非常非常脆弱。亲爱的家长们，这是很严肃的事情，请爱护你的孩子。他们需要你百分之百的照顾。这一点也不像一个实，这是一件很严肃的事。
I think more developed brains actually do mimicking ( a way of learning) much more strongly, specially at childhood. That's why this stage is damming important and experiences of this stage will remain for ever. That's also one of the reasons we don't see much smart animals and humans themselves don't evolved to a smarter creature. Smarter creatures become very very very vulnerable in young. Dear parents, this is serious, please, care your child. They need your 100% care. It's nothing like an experiment. It's very serious.
我认为更发达的大脑实际上会更强烈地模仿(一种学习方式)，特别是在儿童时期。这就是为什么这个阶段非常重要，这个阶段的经验将永远存在。这也是为什么我们很少看到聪明的动物，人类本身也没有进化成更聪明的生物。
聪明的生物在幼时变得非常非常脆弱。亲爱的家长们，这是很严肃的事情，请爱护你的孩子。他们需要你百分之百的照顾。这一点也不像一个实，这是一件很严肃的事。
Hannah Madden
Exactly, children are most easily affected at that age. I know parents who left healthy toddlers to fend for themselves, while taking sick ones to hospital etc, resulting in the “healthy” ones being traumatized.
没错，那个年龄段的孩子最容易受影响。我知道有些父母让健康的孩子自己照顾自己，而把生病的孩子送到医院等，导致“健康”的孩子受到心理创伤。
Exactly, children are most easily affected at that age. I know parents who left healthy toddlers to fend for themselves, while taking sick ones to hospital etc, resulting in the “healthy” ones being traumatized.
没错，那个年龄段的孩子最容易受影响。我知道有些父母让健康的孩子自己照顾自己，而把生病的孩子送到医院等，导致“健康”的孩子受到心理创伤。
Lilsureboi
Am glad I met this early, how do any human not deeply understand that the quality of its children’s mentality is prime over all, if it’s to build a lasting legacy in this nothingness
很高兴我这么早就认识到了这点——如果要在这虚无中建立持久的遗产，人类怎么会不深刻地理解孩子们的心理素质是最重要的呢？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Am glad I met this early, how do any human not deeply understand that the quality of its children’s mentality is prime over all, if it’s to build a lasting legacy in this nothingness
很高兴我这么早就认识到了这点——如果要在这虚无中建立持久的遗产，人类怎么会不深刻地理解孩子们的心理素质是最重要的呢？
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Kalyani Mohapatra
Unnecessary purpose of the experiment
Lack of ethics
Pathetic parenting
Psychologist?
实验目的不必要
缺乏道德的行为
糟糕的父母
心理学家?
Unnecessary purpose of the experiment
Lack of ethics
Pathetic parenting
Psychologist?
实验目的不必要
缺乏道德的行为
糟糕的父母
心理学家?
Amol Prabhawalkar
It's horrible to treat a child like this , human or otherwise,
As adults They were free to do any kind of experiments on themselves but on a child they had no authority to do so,
这样对待一个孩子太可怕了，不管是人类还是其他动物，
作为成年人，他们可以自由地在自己身上做任何实验，但在孩子身上却没有这样做的权力。
It's horrible to treat a child like this , human or otherwise,
As adults They were free to do any kind of experiments on themselves but on a child they had no authority to do so,
这样对待一个孩子太可怕了，不管是人类还是其他动物，
作为成年人，他们可以自由地在自己身上做任何实验，但在孩子身上却没有这样做的权力。
Kalyani Mohapatra
I completely agree
我完全同意。
I completely agree
我完全同意。
Rohit Roy
It was an important experiment to study the psychology of chimps. To see till what rate they can mimic human behaviour.
There is literally nothing wrong with the ethics here, especially considering this was done back when the effects weren't known. That's like saying workers/scientists working with radioactive equipment without protective equipment is due to lack of ethics when the harmful effects weren't known back then (many workers died as a result of this, and due to that we discovered the harmful effects of radioactive materials).
Again, there was nothing wrong with the parenting.
This answer is extremely misleading, there is no evidence that the experiement resulted in a life long negative effects for the child. He went on to become a successful psychologist too (and mind you, it's a high intelligence profession, thereby indicating there was no loss to his intellectual capacity). His suicide isn't connected in any way with this experiment. Also, toddler brains are extremely flexible. It's as easy to learn something from mimicking the chimp as to forget about that.
This is why I don't like Quora for anything relevant to actually gaining information. Wrong/misleading answers in the first place (and many a times, made misleading to gain upvotes), and people drawing wrong conclusions then spewing hate.
这是一个研究黑猩猩心理的重要实验。看看它们模仿人类行为的程度。
这里的道德规范并没有什么问题，特别是考虑到这是在不知道影响的情况下进行的。这就好比说，在没有防护设备的情况下使用放射性设备的工人/科学家是缺乏道德的，而当时关于辐射的有害影响并不为人所知(许多工人因此死亡，也正是因此，我们发现了放射性材料的有害影响)。
再者，育儿方式没有问题。
这个答案极具误导性，没有证据表明这个实验有给孩子带来终身的负面影响。他后来也成为了一名成功的心理学家(注意，这是一个高智商的职业，因此表明他的智力没有损失)。他的自杀和这个实验没有任何关系。此外，蹒跚学步的孩子的大脑非常灵活。从模仿黑猩猩中学到一些东西和忘记它一样容易。
这就是为什么我不喜欢Quora上任何与获取信息相关的东西。首先是错误的/误导性的答案(很多时候，误导是为了获得好评)，然后人们得出错误的结论，然后散播仇恨。
It was an important experiment to study the psychology of chimps. To see till what rate they can mimic human behaviour.
There is literally nothing wrong with the ethics here, especially considering this was done back when the effects weren't known. That's like saying workers/scientists working with radioactive equipment without protective equipment is due to lack of ethics when the harmful effects weren't known back then (many workers died as a result of this, and due to that we discovered the harmful effects of radioactive materials).
Again, there was nothing wrong with the parenting.
This answer is extremely misleading, there is no evidence that the experiement resulted in a life long negative effects for the child. He went on to become a successful psychologist too (and mind you, it's a high intelligence profession, thereby indicating there was no loss to his intellectual capacity). His suicide isn't connected in any way with this experiment. Also, toddler brains are extremely flexible. It's as easy to learn something from mimicking the chimp as to forget about that.
This is why I don't like Quora for anything relevant to actually gaining information. Wrong/misleading answers in the first place (and many a times, made misleading to gain upvotes), and people drawing wrong conclusions then spewing hate.
这是一个研究黑猩猩心理的重要实验。看看它们模仿人类行为的程度。
这里的道德规范并没有什么问题，特别是考虑到这是在不知道影响的情况下进行的。这就好比说，在没有防护设备的情况下使用放射性设备的工人/科学家是缺乏道德的，而当时关于辐射的有害影响并不为人所知(许多工人因此死亡，也正是因此，我们发现了放射性材料的有害影响)。
再者，育儿方式没有问题。
这个答案极具误导性，没有证据表明这个实验有给孩子带来终身的负面影响。他后来也成为了一名成功的心理学家(注意，这是一个高智商的职业，因此表明他的智力没有损失)。他的自杀和这个实验没有任何关系。此外，蹒跚学步的孩子的大脑非常灵活。从模仿黑猩猩中学到一些东西和忘记它一样容易。
这就是为什么我不喜欢Quora上任何与获取信息相关的东西。首先是错误的/误导性的答案(很多时候，误导是为了获得好评)，然后人们得出错误的结论，然后散播仇恨。
Luke Harrison
No one else thinks this is less creepy than the experiments done by Unit 731 during WWII?…
没人认为这相比于第二次世界大战期间731部队做的实验没那么令人毛骨悚然吗?
No one else thinks this is less creepy than the experiments done by Unit 731 during WWII?…
没人认为这相比于第二次世界大战期间731部队做的实验没那么令人毛骨悚然吗?
Alejandro Sills
I wouldn’t say “creepy.” I would say “evil,” instead, but perhaps we need to invent a new word to capture the true horrors of what happened under Unit 731.
我不会说“令人毛骨悚然”，我会说“邪恶”，但也许我们需要发明一个新词来描述发生在731部队的真正恐怖事件。
I wouldn’t say “creepy.” I would say “evil,” instead, but perhaps we need to invent a new word to capture the true horrors of what happened under Unit 731.
我不会说“令人毛骨悚然”，我会说“邪恶”，但也许我们需要发明一个新词来描述发生在731部队的真正恐怖事件。
Hannah Madden
No you don’t, because “official” history says nothing is as bad as Hitler.
不，你没有，因为“官方”历史说没有什么比希特勒更坏的了。
No you don’t, because “official” history says nothing is as bad as Hitler.
不，你没有，因为“官方”历史说没有什么比希特勒更坏的了。
Mallory McClanahan
Very, very dangerous arrangement. Chimps can be vicious without warning. I’d be terrified to see a child in that situation.
非常、非常危险的安排。
黑猩猩可以毫无征兆地变得凶恶。我很害怕看到一个孩子陷入那种境地。
Very, very dangerous arrangement. Chimps can be vicious without warning. I’d be terrified to see a child in that situation.
非常、非常危险的安排。
黑猩猩可以毫无征兆地变得凶恶。我很害怕看到一个孩子陷入那种境地。
Pat O'Rourke
I was raised with a dog so now I bark to go outside.
我是和狗一起长大的，所以我现在会在外面吠叫。
I was raised with a dog so now I bark to go outside.
我是和狗一起长大的，所以我现在会在外面吠叫。
Damien Classen
I was raised with a radio in the house. Now when somebody twiddles my knob I sing.
我从小家里就有收音机。现在当有人转动我的把手时，我就唱歌。
I was raised with a radio in the house. Now when somebody twiddles my knob I sing.
我从小家里就有收音机。现在当有人转动我的把手时，我就唱歌。
Erwin
The experiment had a long-lasting effect on Donald who killed himself at the age of 43. While 瓜 died a year after she was separated from Donald.
The experiment had a long-lasting effect on Donald who killed himself at the age of 43. While 瓜 died a year after she was separated from Donald.
You don’t know this, can’t possibly know this, and nobody can prove it, not even his parents.
“这个实验对43岁自杀的唐纳德产生了持久的影响。而瓜在与唐纳德分离一年后去世。”
你不知道，也不可能知道，没人能证明（它们之间是否有关联），连他的父母都不能。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
“这个实验对43岁自杀的唐纳德产生了持久的影响。而瓜在与唐纳德分离一年后去世。”
你不知道，也不可能知道，没人能证明（它们之间是否有关联），连他的父母都不能。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
yan MacDonald
Why do you say that, if I may inquire?
恕我冒昧，你为什么这么说?
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Why do you say that, if I may inquire?
恕我冒昧，你为什么这么说?
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Erwin
Determining a causal lix between the experiment and his suicide years later is next to impossible, unless he himself said it from his own lips, and even then he could be mistaken about his own belief (he would have had no memory of the experiment).
The only way to really prove if raising a toddler with a chimp for nine months will lead to suicide as they grow older, is to do a clinical trial. You would need to have a decent sample size, about 40 babies and chimps will do. Half will be the control group, the other half the experimental. Then you have to follow the Kellogg Experiment methodology for nine months. Then wait forty years to track the results and see if the babies develop the way Donald did and end up committing suicide. Then punch the numbers between the control group and the experimental group to see if it was statistically significant.
Then it needs to get peer-reviewed, which means doing the same experiment all over again.
I am sure that Chukwuebuka Sunday did not do that, and doing so would be unethical and probably illegal today, so there is no way we will ever know.
要确定这个实验和他多年后的自杀之间的因果关系几乎是不可能的，除非他亲口说出来，即便如此，他自己的信念也可能是错误的(他可能对这个实验没有记忆)。
要想真正证明和黑猩猩一起抚养一个蹒跚学步的孩子九个月是否会导致他们长大后自杀，唯一的方法就是进行临床试验。你需要有一个合适的样本量，大约40个婴儿和黑猩猩。一半是对照组，另一半是实验组。然后你必须遵循凯洛格实验方法九个月。然后等待四十年来追踪的结果，看看孩子是否会像唐纳德一样发育，最终自杀。
然后在对照组和实验组之间统计数字，看看是否有统计学意义。然后需要进行同行评审，这意味着要重新做同样的实验。
我确信Chukwuebuka Sunday没有这样做，而这样做在今天是不道德的，可能是非法的，所以我们永远不可能知道。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Determining a causal lix between the experiment and his suicide years later is next to impossible, unless he himself said it from his own lips, and even then he could be mistaken about his own belief (he would have had no memory of the experiment).
The only way to really prove if raising a toddler with a chimp for nine months will lead to suicide as they grow older, is to do a clinical trial. You would need to have a decent sample size, about 40 babies and chimps will do. Half will be the control group, the other half the experimental. Then you have to follow the Kellogg Experiment methodology for nine months. Then wait forty years to track the results and see if the babies develop the way Donald did and end up committing suicide. Then punch the numbers between the control group and the experimental group to see if it was statistically significant.
Then it needs to get peer-reviewed, which means doing the same experiment all over again.
I am sure that Chukwuebuka Sunday did not do that, and doing so would be unethical and probably illegal today, so there is no way we will ever know.
要确定这个实验和他多年后的自杀之间的因果关系几乎是不可能的，除非他亲口说出来，即便如此，他自己的信念也可能是错误的(他可能对这个实验没有记忆)。
要想真正证明和黑猩猩一起抚养一个蹒跚学步的孩子九个月是否会导致他们长大后自杀，唯一的方法就是进行临床试验。你需要有一个合适的样本量，大约40个婴儿和黑猩猩。一半是对照组，另一半是实验组。然后你必须遵循凯洛格实验方法九个月。然后等待四十年来追踪的结果，看看孩子是否会像唐纳德一样发育，最终自杀。
然后在对照组和实验组之间统计数字，看看是否有统计学意义。然后需要进行同行评审，这意味着要重新做同样的实验。
我确信Chukwuebuka Sunday没有这样做，而这样做在今天是不道德的，可能是非法的，所以我们永远不可能知道。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Jack Levit
I wonder if putting infants into daycare is a good thing and what the long term affect that is going to have.
我想知道把婴儿送到日托所是不是一件好事，这会产生什么样的长期影响。
I wonder if putting infants into daycare is a good thing and what the long term affect that is going to have.
我想知道把婴儿送到日托所是不是一件好事，这会产生什么样的长期影响。
Joe Tolksdorff
The long term effect is they return the favor and stick you in a convalescent home.
长期的影响是他们会回报你，把你关进疗养院。
The long term effect is they return the favor and stick you in a convalescent home.
长期的影响是他们会回报你，把你关进疗养院。
Meadow Gailer
Ummm how the heck are you suppose to provide for them you can't strap the kids to your back while giving a presentation or meeting with clients lol.
你如何能养活他们，你不能在做演示或会见客户时把孩子绑在你的背上，哈哈。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Ummm how the heck are you suppose to provide for them you can't strap the kids to your back while giving a presentation or meeting with clients lol.
你如何能养活他们，你不能在做演示或会见客户时把孩子绑在你的背上，哈哈。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Amber Le
Same thing they will say when you are old and they have careers . Lol
等你老了，他们有了事业，他们也会这么说。哈哈
Same thing they will say when you are old and they have careers . Lol
等你老了，他们有了事业，他们也会这么说。哈哈
Heide-Raquel Fuss
She died from heartbreak and sudden change in the family dynamic. To rupture the bond and the home that this chimp had. Together with this boy. Both separated and further more.
I really start to despise ‘science’ and ‘scientists. Humans play to much games with lives involved. Humans play to much with nature and animals, people, children and so on. Scientists are ‘mad’ i think. Sick in their minds. Otherwise you would not even start an experiment like this and many other experiments. Humans like to much ‘ experimenting’, devoid of common sense, empathy, compassion, love and care. Scientists are ‘clinical cold people’ most of the times. That is why they can play with clinical experiments in clinical settings & protocols, with clinical purposes, with a clinical atitude.
Terrible story to read, imagine and to feel it.
她（黑猩猩）死于心碎和家庭动态的突然变化。打破了这只黑猩猩与家和人类的联系——和这个男孩一起。
我真的开始鄙视“科学”和“科学家”了。人类玩了太多与生命有关的游戏。人类与自然、动物、人类、儿童等等玩得太多了。我认为科学家是“疯了”。他们脑子有病。否则你甚至不会开始这样的实验和其他很多实验。人类喜欢做很多“实验”，缺乏常识、同理心、同情、爱和关怀。大多数时候，科学家都是“临床冷淡的人”。这就是为什么他们可以在临床环境和协议下，以临床目的和临床态度进行临床实验。
这故事读起来，想象起来，感觉起来都很糟糕。
She died from heartbreak and sudden change in the family dynamic. To rupture the bond and the home that this chimp had. Together with this boy. Both separated and further more.
I really start to despise ‘science’ and ‘scientists. Humans play to much games with lives involved. Humans play to much with nature and animals, people, children and so on. Scientists are ‘mad’ i think. Sick in their minds. Otherwise you would not even start an experiment like this and many other experiments. Humans like to much ‘ experimenting’, devoid of common sense, empathy, compassion, love and care. Scientists are ‘clinical cold people’ most of the times. That is why they can play with clinical experiments in clinical settings & protocols, with clinical purposes, with a clinical atitude.
Terrible story to read, imagine and to feel it.
她（黑猩猩）死于心碎和家庭动态的突然变化。打破了这只黑猩猩与家和人类的联系——和这个男孩一起。
我真的开始鄙视“科学”和“科学家”了。人类玩了太多与生命有关的游戏。人类与自然、动物、人类、儿童等等玩得太多了。我认为科学家是“疯了”。他们脑子有病。否则你甚至不会开始这样的实验和其他很多实验。人类喜欢做很多“实验”，缺乏常识、同理心、同情、爱和关怀。大多数时候，科学家都是“临床冷淡的人”。这就是为什么他们可以在临床环境和协议下，以临床目的和临床态度进行临床实验。
这故事读起来，想象起来，感觉起来都很糟糕。
Shame on humanity. Shame on scientists, psychiatrists, psychologes, and all crap that comes from this people and beyond.
Why on heavens sake, you even want to ‘know’ if a chimp can become more like a human? With human atitudes? Is being a chimp in nature not enough for them? What was the shitty purpose anyway of all that? To exploit the chimps for human gain? ‘A gain of function’ ‘experiment’? To gain, gain, gain? People are users and abusers and gain knowledge to gain,, use and abuse some more.
The end result? Both dead. Suffering.
Are you happy with your never-ending-experiments dear scientists? Humans?
我为人类感到羞愧。科学家，精神病学家，心理学家，以及所有来自这些人的垃圾都是可耻的。看在上帝的份上，为什么你甚至想“知道”黑猩猩是否能变得更像人类?对他们来说，在大自然中做一只黑猩猩还不够吗? 你这么做的目的到底是什么?为了人类的利益而剥削黑猩猩?“功能的增益”“实验”?获取、获取，只为获取?人是使用者和施暴者，获取知识是为了获得、使用和滥用更多的知识。最终的结果吗?都死了，仅剩痛苦。
亲爱的科学家们，你们对没完没了的实验满意吗?人类?
Why on heavens sake, you even want to ‘know’ if a chimp can become more like a human? With human atitudes? Is being a chimp in nature not enough for them? What was the shitty purpose anyway of all that? To exploit the chimps for human gain? ‘A gain of function’ ‘experiment’? To gain, gain, gain? People are users and abusers and gain knowledge to gain,, use and abuse some more.
The end result? Both dead. Suffering.
Are you happy with your never-ending-experiments dear scientists? Humans?
我为人类感到羞愧。科学家，精神病学家，心理学家，以及所有来自这些人的垃圾都是可耻的。看在上帝的份上，为什么你甚至想“知道”黑猩猩是否能变得更像人类?对他们来说，在大自然中做一只黑猩猩还不够吗? 你这么做的目的到底是什么?为了人类的利益而剥削黑猩猩?“功能的增益”“实验”?获取、获取，只为获取?人是使用者和施暴者，获取知识是为了获得、使用和滥用更多的知识。最终的结果吗?都死了，仅剩痛苦。
亲爱的科学家们，你们对没完没了的实验满意吗?人类?
Isak Barbopoulos
We experiment so that we may learn about human nature, so that we, as a society, can do better. For instance, we now know that when a group of people is described in a sterotypical and dehumanized way, then it's easier to hate them and commit attrocities against them. Kind of like how you describe scientists as clinically cold and mad people that should be ashamed of what other scientists did before many of them were even born.
Scientists are not a hive mind, they are every bit as complex, emotional and human as everyone else. Also, pretty much every psychologist today will agree that experiments such as this one was unethical and it would never get the green light today.
我们进行实验是为了了解人性，这样我们作为一个社会，就能做得更好。例如，我们现在知道，当一群人被用刻板和非人的方式描述时，人们就更容易憎恨他们，并对他们犯下暴行。就像你把科学家描述成临床冷酷和疯狂的人，他们应该为其他科学家在他们中许多人出生前所做的事感到羞耻。
科学家不是蜂群思维，他们和其他人一样复杂，一样情绪化，一样有人性。而且，今天几乎每个心理学家都会同意，像这样的实验是不道德的，它永远不会得到批准。
We experiment so that we may learn about human nature, so that we, as a society, can do better. For instance, we now know that when a group of people is described in a sterotypical and dehumanized way, then it's easier to hate them and commit attrocities against them. Kind of like how you describe scientists as clinically cold and mad people that should be ashamed of what other scientists did before many of them were even born.
Scientists are not a hive mind, they are every bit as complex, emotional and human as everyone else. Also, pretty much every psychologist today will agree that experiments such as this one was unethical and it would never get the green light today.
我们进行实验是为了了解人性，这样我们作为一个社会，就能做得更好。例如，我们现在知道，当一群人被用刻板和非人的方式描述时，人们就更容易憎恨他们，并对他们犯下暴行。就像你把科学家描述成临床冷酷和疯狂的人，他们应该为其他科学家在他们中许多人出生前所做的事感到羞耻。
科学家不是蜂群思维，他们和其他人一样复杂，一样情绪化，一样有人性。而且，今天几乎每个心理学家都会同意，像这样的实验是不道德的，它永远不会得到批准。
Nick Nikolov
If you despise science so much, stop using the Internet, modern medicine and any of the conveniences made possible by science.
Anything else exposes you as an utter hypocrite. Like, oh I do not know, maybe bad mouthing science on a platform made possible by science, through a device developed by science.
Science is a methodology. How it is utilised is entirely up to the individual.
如果你如此鄙视科学，那就别再使用互联网、现代医学和科学带来的任何便利了。
否则你就是个彻头彻尾的伪君子。就像……哦，我不知道，也许在一个由科学创造的平台上、通过一个由科学开发的设备来诋毁科学。
科学是一种方法论。如何利用它完全取决于个人。
If you despise science so much, stop using the Internet, modern medicine and any of the conveniences made possible by science.
Anything else exposes you as an utter hypocrite. Like, oh I do not know, maybe bad mouthing science on a platform made possible by science, through a device developed by science.
Science is a methodology. How it is utilised is entirely up to the individual.
如果你如此鄙视科学，那就别再使用互联网、现代医学和科学带来的任何便利了。
否则你就是个彻头彻尾的伪君子。就像……哦，我不知道，也许在一个由科学创造的平台上、通过一个由科学开发的设备来诋毁科学。
科学是一种方法论。如何利用它完全取决于个人。
Marc Tan
John Money and David Reimer.
David Reimer was a biological male whose penis was accidentally burnt off as an infant due to a botched surgical procedure.
Johns Hopkins psychologist John Money somehow managed to convinced David Reimer’s parents to raise him as a girl in order to prove his theory on gender neutrality and that gender was learned rather than innate.
John Money then proceeded to observe and supervised the development of David Reimer from childhood all the way through puberty and adolescence- all the while reporting what a success the entire experiment was and that David Reimer than renamed as Brenda was growing up to be a healthy normal girl.
约翰·莫尼和大卫·雷默。
大卫·雷默是一名生理男性，他的阴茎在婴儿时期因一次拙劣的外科手术被意外烧掉。
约翰·霍普金斯大学的心理学家约翰·莫尼设法说服大卫·雷默的父母把他当作女孩抚养长大，以证明他的性别中立理论，即性别是后天习得的，而不是天生的。
然后约翰·莫尼继续观察和监督大卫·雷默从童年到青春期的发展，同时报告整个实验是多么成功，大卫·雷默比改名为布伦达长大了，是一个健康正常的女孩。
John Money and David Reimer.
David Reimer was a biological male whose penis was accidentally burnt off as an infant due to a botched surgical procedure.
Johns Hopkins psychologist John Money somehow managed to convinced David Reimer’s parents to raise him as a girl in order to prove his theory on gender neutrality and that gender was learned rather than innate.
John Money then proceeded to observe and supervised the development of David Reimer from childhood all the way through puberty and adolescence- all the while reporting what a success the entire experiment was and that David Reimer than renamed as Brenda was growing up to be a healthy normal girl.
约翰·莫尼和大卫·雷默。
大卫·雷默是一名生理男性，他的阴茎在婴儿时期因一次拙劣的外科手术被意外烧掉。
约翰·霍普金斯大学的心理学家约翰·莫尼设法说服大卫·雷默的父母把他当作女孩抚养长大，以证明他的性别中立理论，即性别是后天习得的，而不是天生的。
然后约翰·莫尼继续观察和监督大卫·雷默从童年到青春期的发展，同时报告整个实验是多么成功，大卫·雷默比改名为布伦达长大了，是一个健康正常的女孩。
Anyway it turns out John Money was lying and that by the age of 13 David Reimer was already exhibiting signs of mental distress and depression. David’s parents eventually told him the truth and David decided by the age of 14 that he wanted to live as a boy despite all the treatments he has received from John Money since early childhood to try to remake him as a girl.
David Reimer eventually killed himself at 38 years old.
What is creepy about the whole experiment was the work of John Money was hugely influential on the ideas that gender is a social construct and that rather than being innate and inborn, it can be manipulated at will. Turns out John Money wasn’t being entirely honest and concealed a lot of the data that didn’t support his hypothesis. It ruined the life of one boy and the damage can be still be seen till today with all the debate over gender ideology and the deliberate silencing of any debate that goes against this ideology.
不管怎样，事实证明约翰·莫尼在撒谎，13岁的大卫·雷默已经表现出精神痛苦和抑郁的迹象。大卫的父母最终告诉了他真相，大卫在14岁的时候决定，他想要做一个男孩，尽管约翰·莫尼从童年早期就对他进行了各种治疗，试图把他改造成一个女孩。
大卫·雷默最终在38岁时自杀。
整个实验令人毛骨悚然的是，约翰·莫尼的工作对性别是一种社会建构的观点产生了巨大的影响，它不是与生俱来的，它可以被随意操纵。
事实证明，约翰·莫尼并不是完全诚实的，他隐瞒了很多不支持他的假设的数据。它毁了一个男孩的人生，这种伤害直到今天仍然可以看到所有关于性别意识形态的辩论，以及刻意压制任何反对这种意识形态的辩论。
链接略
David Reimer eventually killed himself at 38 years old.
What is creepy about the whole experiment was the work of John Money was hugely influential on the ideas that gender is a social construct and that rather than being innate and inborn, it can be manipulated at will. Turns out John Money wasn’t being entirely honest and concealed a lot of the data that didn’t support his hypothesis. It ruined the life of one boy and the damage can be still be seen till today with all the debate over gender ideology and the deliberate silencing of any debate that goes against this ideology.
不管怎样，事实证明约翰·莫尼在撒谎，13岁的大卫·雷默已经表现出精神痛苦和抑郁的迹象。大卫的父母最终告诉了他真相，大卫在14岁的时候决定，他想要做一个男孩，尽管约翰·莫尼从童年早期就对他进行了各种治疗，试图把他改造成一个女孩。
大卫·雷默最终在38岁时自杀。
整个实验令人毛骨悚然的是，约翰·莫尼的工作对性别是一种社会建构的观点产生了巨大的影响，它不是与生俱来的，它可以被随意操纵。
事实证明，约翰·莫尼并不是完全诚实的，他隐瞒了很多不支持他的假设的数据。它毁了一个男孩的人生，这种伤害直到今天仍然可以看到所有关于性别意识形态的辩论，以及刻意压制任何反对这种意识形态的辩论。
链接略
Susana M
Great example you did add to this post, exposing the morbidity and corruption of some professionals and scientists who do anything for ambition and public recognition . Thanks
你在这篇文章中添加了一个很好的补充例子，揭露了一些专业人士和科学家的病态和腐败，他们为了野心和公众认可不择手段。
谢谢。
Great example you did add to this post, exposing the morbidity and corruption of some professionals and scientists who do anything for ambition and public recognition . Thanks
你在这篇文章中添加了一个很好的补充例子，揭露了一些专业人士和科学家的病态和腐败，他们为了野心和公众认可不择手段。
谢谢。
Victor Gray
not every scientist is smart, just because you can test it doesn't mean you should.
不是所有科学家都是聪明的，就因为你可以做这样的实验，不代表你应该。
not every scientist is smart, just because you can test it doesn't mean you should.
不是所有科学家都是聪明的，就因为你可以做这样的实验，不代表你应该。
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