网帖翻译

Susanna Viljanen
Like this.Finns are definitely not Aryans - we are Finno-Ugrics, and our genetics are distinct. Finland and Estonia are the two last remaining independent nations in Europe which have survived the Aryan onslaught.

就像这样。（上图）
芬兰人绝对不是雅利安人——我们是芬兰-乌拉尔人，我们的基因是不同的。芬兰和爱沙尼亚是欧洲仅存的两个在雅利安人的袭击中幸存下来的独立国家。

Ygor Coelho
That's false from a genetic point of view. Finns and other Uralic peoples from Northeastern Europe have a large chunk of steppe Indo-European ancestry mediated by the spread of the Corded Ware culture. They do have excess hunter-gatherer ancestry in comparison with most other Europeans, but are very different from pre-Neolithic and pre-Bronze Age Europeans nonetheless.
In fact, the Uralic languages seem to POSTDATE the Indo-European ones in Europe much west of the Urals. Finnic languages probably imposed themselves on an Indo-European majority substrate between the Late Bronze Age and Late Iron Age, not the other way around.
The earliest Uralic speakers came originally from West Siberia and the Ural mountains, and much of that expansion happened after the initial Yamnaya and Corded Ware expansions. The Proto-Uralic proper input in Finnic peoples represents a small minority of their genetic makeup, so there is a lot of post-Indo-European Migration in them.

从遗传学的角度来看，这是错误的。芬兰人和其他来自欧洲东北部的乌拉尔人有大量的草原印欧血统，这是绳纹陶器文化传播的媒介。与大多数其他欧洲人相比，他们确实有更多的狩猎-采集血统，但与新石器时代前和青铜时代前的欧洲人非常不同。
事实上，乌拉尔的语言似乎比远在乌拉尔以西的欧洲印欧语系的语言要晚。芬兰人的语言很可能是在青铜时代晚期和铁器时代晚期之间强加于印欧语系的主体之上的，而不是相反。
最早说乌拉尔语的人来自西西伯利亚和乌拉尔山脉，大部分扩张发生在最初的颜那亚和绳纹陶器文化扩张之后。芬兰人的原始乌拉尔基因只占他们基因组成的一小部分，换句话说他们有很多后印欧移民基因。

David Bäckström
In Swedish and south Finnish archaeology(and I would guess Estonian as well) the supposedly Finnic elements appear around the same time or less than 500 years later than the first Indo-Europeans, from what I’ve been able to conclude from studies the last decade or so.
There’s also a later migration during the late Bronze Age / early Iron Age of what is interpreted as the Sami speaking people arriving in the north with their own quite sophisticated iron technology, asbestos ceramics and tame reindeer.
Edit: read my other comment to see picture of reconstructions of ancient Scandinavian HG.

在瑞典和芬兰南部的考古中(我猜爱沙尼亚也一样)，据我从过去十年左右的研究中得出的结论，芬兰元素与第一批印欧人出现的时间差不多，或者晚不到500年。
在青铜器时代晚期和铁器时代早期也有一种迁徙，被解释为讲萨米语的人带着他们自己非常先进的制铁技术，石棉陶瓷和驯服的驯鹿来到了北方。
编辑:阅读我的其他评论，查看古代斯堪的纳维亚人类基因的重建图片。

Indicus
Shockingly, she looks like a prettified version of “How dare you!”

令人震惊的是，她看起来就像一个美化版的“好爹油！”
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John Jones
Swedes are Indo Europeans though.

但瑞典人是印欧人。

Bryden Walsh
I have heard that Blonde hair and pale skin is an evolutionary feature which gives better survival in the cold northern climate. If this is true, perhaps it explains why I am attracted to blonde women...

我听说金发和白皙的皮肤是一种进化特征，这有助于在寒冷的北方气候中生存。如果这是真的，也许这就解释了为什么我喜欢金发女人/笑

Drew
The light skin allows more sunlight to penetrate in less sunny environments and the blonde hair acts like a fiber optic to channel sunlight as well. Crucial for making Vitamin D

浅色的皮肤可以让更多的阳光在阳光较少的环境中穿透皮肤，金色的头发就像光纤一样引导阳光。对合成维生素D至关重要。

Toffee Fornesus
So here are a few interesting excerpts in a recent article I read about Finno-Ugric ethnogenesis:
The Finnish language is not considered Indo-European but Finns share Yamnaya (ancestors to Proto-Indo-Europeans) genetics with the rest of Northern Europe, so one could argue that they technically are among the most Indo-European of all the Europeans.
Finns have traditionally not been considered Indo-European as the Finnish language is part of the Uralic language group (instead of the Indo-European). At the same time, Finns have among the most Yamnaya (seen as ancestors to Indo-Europeans) genetic components in Europe.

以下是我最近读到的一篇关于芬兰-乌拉尔民族形成的文章中的一些有趣摘录:
芬兰语不被认为是印欧语系，但芬兰人与北欧其他国家共享颜那亚(原印欧语系的祖先)基因，所以有人可能会说，从技术上讲，芬兰人是所有欧洲人中最具印欧语系的。
芬兰人传统上不被认为是印欧语系，因为芬兰语是乌拉尔语系的一部分(而不是印欧语系)。与此同时，芬兰人在欧洲拥有最多的颜那亚(被视为印欧人的祖先)基因成分。

However:
A study by Helsinki University shows that inhabitants of Finland who lived 4000 years ago had DNA containing genetic material from Siberia, which is still visible in modern Finns DNA according to the same study. Mongols can also trace their genetic heritage to Siberia, and a study published in Nature Genetics saw a strong presence of Mongolian genetics shared with Finnish DNA.
The modern Finns are generally more mixed with the European genome, but Siberian and Mongolian origins are more visible in Finns than in other European populations.

然而：
赫尔辛基大学的一项研究表明，生活在4000年前的芬兰居民的DNA中含有来自西伯利亚的遗传物质，根据同一项研究，这些物质在现代芬兰人的DNA中仍然可见。蒙古人的基因遗产也可以追溯到西伯利亚，发表在《自然遗传学》(Nature Genetics)上的一项研究发现，蒙古人的基因与芬兰人的DNA有很大的相似之处。
现代芬兰人的基因组通常更多地与欧洲人混合，但西伯利亚和蒙古血统在芬兰人身上比在其他欧洲人身上更明显。

So it appears that Finno-Ugric people (Finns, Estonians, Sami and Hungarians) are majority European (as in being related to the Steppe peoples that Indo-Europeans descended from) while having, on average, more Siberian genetic lineage and traits than the average European.
Thus, Finno-Ugric peoples may be to Europeans what Negritos, Melanesians, Papuans and Australian Aborigines are to Eastern Eurasians in that the Finno-Ugric peoples have some descent from relict populations of the Indo-Aryans, with these ancestors possibly splitting off prior to the rest of the Indo-Aryans, then intermixing with the later migrations later on. At the same time, they may have interacted and intermixed with ancient Siberians at some point as well.

因此，似乎芬兰-乌拉尔人(芬兰人、爱沙尼亚人、萨米人和匈牙利人)大部分是欧洲人(因为他们与印欧人的祖先/草原人有血缘关系)，而平均而言，他们比欧洲人拥有更多的西伯利亚遗传谱系和特征。
因此，芬兰-乌拉尔人之于欧洲人，可能就像内格里托人、美拉尼西亚人、巴布亚人和澳大利亚土著人之于东欧人，因为芬兰-乌拉尔人有一些印度-雅利安人的残余人口的后裔，这些祖先可能在其他印度-雅利安人之前分裂，然后与后来的移民混合在一起。与此同时，他们也可能在某种程度上与古代西伯利亚人互动和混合。

For reasons still unknown, Finno-Ugric languages, rather than Indo-European languages, were the lingua franca of these groups, an indication that, after interacting with the original Indo-European-related migrants, Siberians were able to establish their cultures and languages as they intermixed with the proto-Indo-European locals. After which entered the actual Indo-Europeans into the Finnic, Estonian and Hungarian gene pools.

由于未知的原因，芬兰-乌戈尔语，而不是印欧语系，是这些群体的通用语，这表明，在与原始印欧语系移民互动后，西伯利亚人能够在与原始印欧语系当地人混合的过程中建立起自己的文化和语言。在此之后，真正的印欧人进入了芬兰人、爱沙尼亚人和匈牙利人的基因库。

Zinserhöhung
there are people there who look like Swedish Nordics but many of them actually do have darker hair and Asian-like features. It is the Finno-Ugric native people's features that is spread from Finland to Ural to Sweden and Norway, they have some features looking like Asians.

那里的人看起来像瑞典的北欧人，但他们中的许多人实际上有着深色的头发和亚洲人的特征。从芬兰到乌拉尔再到瑞典和挪威，是芬兰-乌戈尔当地人的特征，他们有一些看起来像亚洲人的特征。
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Alex Sonnberg
I spent many years of my childhood in Estonia. Before I even learned about ethnicities and „races“ and their genetics, I used to distinguish (Estonian resident) Russians and Estonians by their looks - Russians looked more like regular white people to me (like those in Hollywood movies etc.), while the Estonians looked… more like Elves. I used to think Finns looked even more „elven“. And yes, the „elven“ features were the slightly „Mongolian/Asian“ touch on their faces. High and wide cheekbones, almond shaped eyes etc. - but usually in light colors so as a kid I never had the idea to compare them to asian looks. So I think I know what you are speaking of.

我在爱沙尼亚度过了多年的童年时光。在我了解种族和“种族”以及他们的基因之前，我常常通过外表来区分(爱沙尼亚居民)俄罗斯人和爱沙尼亚人——在我看来，俄罗斯人更像普通的白人(就像好莱坞电影里的那些人)，而爱沙尼亚人看起来更像精灵。
我曾经认为芬兰人看起来更像“精灵”。是的，“精灵”的特征是他们脸上略带“蒙古/亚洲”的感觉。高而宽的颧骨，杏仁状的眼睛等等——但通常是浅色的。所以作为一个孩子，我从来没有想过要把他们和亚洲人的长相做比较。我想我知道你在说什么。
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Sofia Anatolievna
Estonians tend to be much lighter overall than Russians. Lighter hair, slightly lighter skin, lighter eyes, etc. I have an Estonian aunt and she definitely stands out in the family lol

爱沙尼亚人总体上比俄罗斯人要浅得多。更浅的头发，更浅的皮肤，更浅的眼睛等等。我有一个爱沙尼亚阿姨，她在家里绝对是独特的

Indicus
She has the sharp facial features of Steppe people so I wouldn't say she accurately represents the native Europeans before the “Aryan" migration (Aryan is a misnomer here, because you're using the “grand-nephew's” name to refer to the “uncle”). I think before the Steppe people arrived, Europeans likely had larger (boxy) faces with somewhat blunt noses but with this complexion or perhaps slightly darker but still white.
The Steppe nomads had sharp features given that they had a lot of ancient Caucasus ancestry (Caucasus Hunter Gatherer). Even today Caucasians (Georgians, Armenians, most Northern Iranians) have sharp features which originally is what led 19th century German anthropologists to appropriate the Caucasian label for all Europeans, as the Circassians (one of the Caucasian peoples) were seen as the ideal of beauty.

她有着草原人尖锐的面部特征，所以我不能说她准确地代表了“雅利安人”移民之前的欧洲原住民(在这里雅利安人是一个错误的称呼，因为你用了“侄孙”的名字来指代“叔叔”)。我认为在草原人到来之前，欧洲人的脸可能更大(四四方方)，鼻子有点钝，但肤色是这样的，或者肤色稍深，但仍然是白色的。
草原游牧民族有鲜明的特征，因为他们有很多古老的高加索血统(高加索狩猎采集者)。即使在今天，高加索人(格鲁吉亚人、亚美尼亚人、大部分北伊朗人)的特征也很鲜明，这最初导致19世纪德国人类学家将高加索人的标签适用于所有欧洲人，因为切尔克斯人(高加索人之一)被视为理想中的美。

Steppe people were also somewhat light brown skin (like the lighter skinned Indians, such as North Indians and Brahmins) and brown to reddish brown hair, brown eyes. The mixture of Steppe facial features with European coloring is what gave rise to Hitler's “Aryan” ideal.
The original Steppe look is still retained by very few ethnicities around the world (primarily the Caucasian peoples) while the 99% of people who received Steppe ancestry across Eurasia have some admixtured features which are divergent from the original Steppe phenotype.

草原人的皮肤也有些浅棕色(就像肤色较浅的印度人，如北印度人和婆罗门人)，头发是棕色到红棕色，眼睛是棕色。草原人的面部特征与欧洲人的肤色相结合，正是希特勒的“雅利安人”理想的来源。
世界上的少数民族(主要是高加索人)仍然保留着原始草原人的外貌，而欧亚大陆上99%的草原人的祖先有一些与原始草原人表型不同的混合特征。
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Sridharan Yadav
Aryans are Indo Iranians. So Europeans don't have Aryan/Sintashta admixture.

雅利安人是印-伊朗人。所以欧洲人没有雅利安人和辛塔什塔人的混合物。

Rafał Sobolewski
Modern Iranians are mostly Arabs - haplogroup J - due to the Islamic Arab conquest of Persia. However ancient Iranians are related to Balts and Slavs - “R1a is thought to have been the dominant haplogroup among the northern and eastern Proto-Indo-European tribes, who evolved into the Indo-Iranian, Thracian, Baltic and Slavic people. The Proto-Indo-Europeans originated in the Yamna culture (3300-2500 BCE). Their dramatic expansion was possible thanks to an early adoption of bronze weapons and the domestication of the horse in the Eurasian steppes (circa 4000-3500 BCE).“ As a side note: over 1000 words in Sanskrit are almost identical in pronunciation to the equivalent words in various Slavic languages. This is more than a coincidence.

现代伊朗人大多是阿拉伯人——单倍群J——由于伊斯兰阿拉伯人征服了波斯。然而，古伊朗人与波罗的海人和斯拉夫人有亲缘关系，“R1a被认为是北部和东部原始印欧人部落中占主导地位的单倍群，这些部落进化成了印度-伊朗人、色雷斯人、波罗的海人和斯拉夫人。
原始印欧人起源于颜那亚文化(公元前3300-2500年)。多亏了早期青铜武器的使用和欧亚大草原(约公元前4000-3500年)对马的驯化，他们的急剧扩张才成为可能。”
附注:梵语中超过1000个单词的读音与各种斯拉夫语中相同的单词几乎相同。这不仅仅是一个巧合。

Shazzad Ahmed
Well according to genetic analysis, the Kalash people of northern Pakistan are genetic relic populations. They're a dardic people of the Indo Aryan family. What makes the Dardic branch unique is that it has stayed isolated for 10,000 years in the highest mountains in the world, the himalaya mountain range. People thought the Kalash were from Greeks but Greeks are not only darker skinned than Kalash but never came to the chitral valley where the Kalash occupy. Their belief system is proto Rig Veda which means this is what hunter gatherer northern populations of Europe use to practice before other invaders forced their belief systems on Europe

根据遗传分析，巴基斯坦北部的卡拉什人是遗传遗迹人群。他们是印度雅利安族的达尔德人。达尔德的独特之处在于，它在世界上最高的山脉——喜马拉雅山脉中与世隔绝了一万年。
人们认为卡拉什人来自希腊，但希腊人不仅肤色比卡拉什人深，而且从未来到卡拉什人居住的吉德拉尔山谷。他们的信仰体系是《梨吠陀》的原型，这意味着在其他入侵者将他们的信仰体系强加到欧洲之前，这是欧洲北部狩猎采集者使用的。

These are the Gilgit people of northern Pakistan
Another dardic people of Aryan origin as well
As you can see, the Gilgit are slightly mixed compared to the Kalash above but nevertheless. You witness blondism in adults in them too.

这些是巴基斯坦北部的吉尔吉特人，另一支雅利安血统的达尔德人。
如你所见，吉尔吉特和上面的卡拉什相比有很多共同特征。你可以在他们身上看到成年人的金发。

Jack Mac
There was no Aryan invasion of Europe. This idea is completely false and was promoted by the Nazis in 1930s Europe. Get up to date. Perhaps you mean the Indo European movement of people and culture, that took over Europe several thousand years ago. There are still some relic populations of people with pre Indo European origins in Europe today. As there are still some isolated populations in Europe, who speak a pre Indo European language. For example, the Basques of northern Spain and southern France. The natives of Sardinia are said to be closest genetically to the pre Indo Europeans. Im not sure why youre showing pictures of people who live in Pakistan, even if they are a relic population. It doesnt mean they are related to pre Indo Europeans.

雅利安人没有入侵欧洲。这种想法是完全错误的，是由纳粹在20世纪30年代的欧洲推广的。跟上时代。
也许你指的是几千年前席卷欧洲的印欧人口和文化运动。今天的欧洲仍然有一些前印欧人血统的遗迹。因为在欧洲仍然有一些孤立的人口，他们说前印欧语。例如，西班牙北部和法国南部的巴斯克人。据说撒丁岛的当地人在基因上与前印欧人最接近。我不知道你为什么要展示生活在巴基斯坦的人的照片，即使他们是基因遗迹。这并不意味着他们与前印欧人有关。

Brandon Contreras
A bit false…europeans in general have been mixing for the past 3 to 4 thousand years.
Many Gyps..ies (indo- europeans) were sold around the Black Sea by huns and Vikings.

不太正确。欧洲人在过去的三到四千年里一直在（基因）混合。
许多吉普赛人(印欧人)被匈奴人和维京人卖到黑海附近。
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Michael Kelley
Nobodies denied Europeans mixing, That explains alot of history of how most of us were mixed by Europeans. Even people in North and South Africa. Im admiring the beauty of these people. Dont teach this stuff in American history.

没有人否认欧洲人的融合，这解释了很多历史上我们大多数人是如何因各路欧洲人融合而来的。我羡慕这些人的美丽。
不过不要在美国历史上教这些东西。

Ygor Coelho
1 - They weren’t Aryan people. They were just people related to the Aryan people, descendants of the Yamnaya and Corded Ware cultures mixed with other European cultures and their respective populations, and it was the early Aryans (basically synonymous with Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers) or, rather, the immediate antecessors of the Aryans who instead came from Eastern Europe to Central Asia and later to parts of South Asia and West Asia.
2 - “Aryans” is just a modern term, though one inspired by an actual and old ethnocultural concept, that has been applied to the speakers of a determined group of languages with a common root, as well as, by extension, to the much more ancient illiterate people with a language ancestral to that group, and whose endonym we will never know.
That people was, in its early stages, an offshoot of one of the regional cultures derived straight from the Corded Ware culture that spread throughout northern Europe between 2,900 and 2,300 B.C. The Proto-Indo-Iranian speakers per se probably emerged with the Sintashta and Andronovo cultures of North-Central Asia and came from immediately antecedent cultures in what is now Russia just to the west, most probably Fatyanovo-Balanovo and Abashevo.

他们不是雅利安人。他们只是雅利安人的后代，是颜那亚和绳纹陶器文化与其他欧洲文化和他们各自的人口混合的后代，是早期的雅利安人(基本上等同于说原始印度-伊朗语的人)，或者更确切地说，是雅利安人的直接祖先，他们从东欧来到中亚，后来又来到南亚和西亚的部分地区。
“雅利安人”只是一个现代术语，尽管它的灵感来自于一个实际而古老的民族文化概念，它被用于指具有共同根源的一组确定的语言的使用者，以及引申来指那些更古老的不识字的人，他们的语言是该群体的祖先，但我们永远不知道他们的名字。
在早期阶段，这些人是一种区域性文化的分支，这种文化直接来自于公元前2900年至公元前2300年传播于北欧的绳纹陶器文化。说原印-伊朗语的人本身可能与中亚北部的辛塔什塔和安德罗诺沃文化一起出现，来自现代西方俄罗斯文化的直接前身，最有可能是法特亚诺沃-巴拉诺沃和阿巴舍沃。

There was no “Aryan” or “Indo-European conquest”. It wasn’t like a great war of conquest or as concerted military effort to establish a unified rule all of Europe. Nothing comparable to, say, the Mongol conquests of Gengis Khan and his successors. It was more like a very complex process of demic and cultural expansion of a myriad of separate tribes — obviously involving conflicts, too — that took at least 1,000 years to consolidate, and it didn’t always mean that the Indo-Europeans were the conquerors. Sometimes, even when they were indeed the conquerors, they were the ones that ultimately got more linguistically and culturally absorbed by the pre-Indo-European natives.

不存在“雅利安人”或“印欧人征服”。它不同于一场伟大的征服战争，也不同于建立统一统治整个欧洲的军事努力。与成吉思汗及其继任者的蒙古征服相比，没有什么可比的。
这更像是一个非常复杂的过程，无数独立部落的人群和文化扩张，显然也涉及冲突。这需要至少1000年的时间来巩固，这并不总是意味着印欧人是征服者。有时，即使他们确实是征服者，他们也是最终在语言和文化上被前印欧原住民吸收的人。

In fact, almost the entire process of Indo-Europeanization was led by societies that were themselves a mixture of Proto-Indo-Europeans from the steppes with the pre-Indo-European peoples already established in the rest of Europe since the Early or Middle Neolithic era. The Corded Ware Culture peoples, after their earliest phase of expansion, were usually ~30% pre-Indo-European Neolithic European. The Bell Beaker Culture peoples, who spread Indo-European cultures even much further than the former, were usually ~50% pre-Indo-European Neolithic European. So, when Indo-European speakers arrived in most of Europe, particularly west of the Baltic sea and the Pannonian steppes, they were not — genetically nor physically - just like the Yamnaya-related Proto-Indo-European steppe herders any longer.

事实上，几乎整个印欧化的过程都是由各类社会族群主导的，这些社会本身就是来自大草原的原印欧人与自新石器时代早期或中期以来已经在欧洲其他地区建立起来的前印欧人的混合体。
绳纹陶器文化民族，在他们最早的扩张阶段之后，通常包含约30%前印欧新石器时代的欧洲人。贝尔大口杯文化（The Bell Beaker Culture）的民族，传播印欧文化甚至比前者更远，通常包含约50%的前印欧新石器时代的欧洲人。
因此，当说印欧语的人到达欧洲大部分地区，特别是波罗的海西部和潘诺尼亚草原时，他们在基因和生理上都不再像与颜那亚相关的原印欧草原牧民那样了。
（未完待续）