复仇母亲的故事：1981年德国一位母亲在法庭上当场射杀谋害女儿的凶手
正文翻译
In March 1981, Marianne Bachmeier opened fire in a crowded courtroom and killed Klaus Grabowski — the man on trial for murdering her 7-year-old daughter.
1981年3月，玛丽安-巴赫梅尔在一个拥挤的法庭上开枪，杀死了克劳斯-格拉博夫斯基--他因谋杀她7岁的女儿而受审。
In March 1981, Marianne Bachmeier opened fire in a crowded courtroom and killed Klaus Grabowski — the man on trial for murdering her 7-year-old daughter.
1981年3月，玛丽安-巴赫梅尔在一个拥挤的法庭上开枪，杀死了克劳斯-格拉博夫斯基--他因谋杀她7岁的女儿而受审。
In March 1981, Marianne Bachmeier opened fire in a crowded courtroom and killed Klaus Grabowski — the man on trial for murdering her 7-year-old daughter.
Immediately, Bachmeier became an infamous figure. Her subsequent trial, which was followed closely by the German public, begged the question: was her effort to avenge her slain child justified?
1981年3月，玛丽安-巴赫梅尔在一个拥挤的法庭上开枪，杀死了克劳斯-格拉博夫斯基--他因谋杀她7岁的女儿而受审。
巴赫梅尔立即成为一个极具争议的人物。她随后的审判受到了德国公众的密切关注，这引出了一个问题：她为自己被杀的孩子报仇的行为是否合理？
Immediately, Bachmeier became an infamous figure. Her subsequent trial, which was followed closely by the German public, begged the question: was her effort to avenge her slain child justified?
1981年3月，玛丽安-巴赫梅尔在一个拥挤的法庭上开枪，杀死了克劳斯-格拉博夫斯基--他因谋杀她7岁的女儿而受审。
巴赫梅尔立即成为一个极具争议的人物。她随后的审判受到了德国公众的密切关注，这引出了一个问题：她为自己被杀的孩子报仇的行为是否合理？
评论翻译
Kate Smith
Even if he was innocent of the murder of her daughter, he was still a child molester so… she did the world a favour
即使他在谋杀她女儿的问题上是无辜的，但他仍然是一个恋童癖者，所以......她帮了世界一个忙。
Even if he was innocent of the murder of her daughter, he was still a child molester so… she did the world a favour
即使他在谋杀她女儿的问题上是无辜的，但他仍然是一个恋童癖者，所以......她帮了世界一个忙。
Jaimi McEntire
He wasn’t innocent. He confessed and bragged about it.
他并不无辜。他承认并吹嘘了这一点。
He wasn’t innocent. He confessed and bragged about it.
他并不无辜。他承认并吹嘘了这一点。
Gobi Subramaniam
And deserved to be shot for it.
那他活该被枪毙。
And deserved to be shot for it.
那他活该被枪毙。
Alex Delarge
No one deserves to be shot for anything. Having this extreme of a view on the world actually suggests some real turmoil in your psyche.
没有人值得为任何事情被枪毙。对世界有如此极端的看法，实际上表明你的心理有点问题。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
No one deserves to be shot for anything. Having this extreme of a view on the world actually suggests some real turmoil in your psyche.
没有人值得为任何事情被枪毙。对世界有如此极端的看法，实际上表明你的心理有点问题。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Gobi Subramaniam
No one deserves to be shot for anything.
Maybe when someone murders your child on day, you could see things a little different.
Then again, I hope you never have any (children). People like you are the ones making the World sick by filling it with evil people.
“没有人值得为任何事情被枪毙。”
也许当有人在某天谋杀了你的孩子时，你会改变你的看法。
话说回来，我希望你永远不要有任何（孩子）。正是像你这样的人使世界如此病态，你们让世界充满了邪恶的人。
No one deserves to be shot for anything.
Maybe when someone murders your child on day, you could see things a little different.
Then again, I hope you never have any (children). People like you are the ones making the World sick by filling it with evil people.
“没有人值得为任何事情被枪毙。”
也许当有人在某天谋杀了你的孩子时，你会改变你的看法。
话说回来，我希望你永远不要有任何（孩子）。正是像你这样的人使世界如此病态，你们让世界充满了邪恶的人。
Alex Delarge
Seeing as I am not a sociopath, I don’t practice sextive empathy. I live by an obxtively justifiable ethical code and don’t break it because of my own personal feelings. I feel empathetic for victims and their families, but I also feel it for the person suspected of the crime. This is the only position that anyone can actually justify. There is no ethical justification for the death penalty.
鉴于我不是一个反社会者，我不会进行选择性的移情。我生活在一个客观合理的道德准则下，不会因为自己的个人感受而破坏它。我对受害者和他们的家人感到同情，但我也对涉嫌犯罪的人感到同情。这是唯一一个任何人都能正确拥有的立场。死刑没有任何道德上的理由。
Seeing as I am not a sociopath, I don’t practice sextive empathy. I live by an obxtively justifiable ethical code and don’t break it because of my own personal feelings. I feel empathetic for victims and their families, but I also feel it for the person suspected of the crime. This is the only position that anyone can actually justify. There is no ethical justification for the death penalty.
鉴于我不是一个反社会者，我不会进行选择性的移情。我生活在一个客观合理的道德准则下，不会因为自己的个人感受而破坏它。我对受害者和他们的家人感到同情，但我也对涉嫌犯罪的人感到同情。这是唯一一个任何人都能正确拥有的立场。死刑没有任何道德上的理由。
Franek Speak
What kind of ethics can justify spending over half a million on a murderer while innocent people die because of the underfunded healthcare system? Do I really need to “feel" for these monsters? What if my empathy have limits to the cases where I see someone vulnerable? Besides, even if I understand the ugly things that person did, does it mean they were justified?
And what about a simple justice - in old times justice was moral and rather lack of justice was immoral… I believe that most of the people would feel that justice was served in this case (although outside of the system, which is of course wrong) and on the contrary, if the guy got 25 years and served 12 (which could be the case) most of the people would feel that it was injustice. I think that not serving justice is immoral and also very irresponsible. But well, we live in times where responsibility is not a virtue anymore so murderers don’t need to take responsibility for their crimes anymore and we don't want to take responsibility for serving them justice.
拥有一个什么样的道德观可以认为在一个杀人犯身上花费50多万，而无辜的人却因为资金不足的医疗系统而死亡是合理的？我真的需要对这些怪物产生"共情"吗？不如把我的同情心仅限于那些我看到的正在遭受不幸境况的人？此外，即使我理解那个人所做的丑陋事情，这是否意味着他们是合理的？
那么，纯粹的正义在哪里--在古代，正义是道德的，而缺乏正义是不道德的......我相信大多数人都会觉得在这个案件中正义得到了伸张（尽管是在司法系统之外，这当然是错误的），相反，如果这个人被判25年，服刑12年（很可能会是这样），大多数人都会觉得这是不公正的。我认为，不伸张正义是不道德的，也是非常不负责任的。但是呢，我们生活的时代，责任不再是一种美德，所以杀人犯不需要再为他们的罪行负责，而我们也不想承担为受害人伸张正义的责任。
What kind of ethics can justify spending over half a million on a murderer while innocent people die because of the underfunded healthcare system? Do I really need to “feel" for these monsters? What if my empathy have limits to the cases where I see someone vulnerable? Besides, even if I understand the ugly things that person did, does it mean they were justified?
And what about a simple justice - in old times justice was moral and rather lack of justice was immoral… I believe that most of the people would feel that justice was served in this case (although outside of the system, which is of course wrong) and on the contrary, if the guy got 25 years and served 12 (which could be the case) most of the people would feel that it was injustice. I think that not serving justice is immoral and also very irresponsible. But well, we live in times where responsibility is not a virtue anymore so murderers don’t need to take responsibility for their crimes anymore and we don't want to take responsibility for serving them justice.
拥有一个什么样的道德观可以认为在一个杀人犯身上花费50多万，而无辜的人却因为资金不足的医疗系统而死亡是合理的？我真的需要对这些怪物产生"共情"吗？不如把我的同情心仅限于那些我看到的正在遭受不幸境况的人？此外，即使我理解那个人所做的丑陋事情，这是否意味着他们是合理的？
那么，纯粹的正义在哪里--在古代，正义是道德的，而缺乏正义是不道德的......我相信大多数人都会觉得在这个案件中正义得到了伸张（尽管是在司法系统之外，这当然是错误的），相反，如果这个人被判25年，服刑12年（很可能会是这样），大多数人都会觉得这是不公正的。我认为，不伸张正义是不道德的，也是非常不负责任的。但是呢，我们生活的时代，责任不再是一种美德，所以杀人犯不需要再为他们的罪行负责，而我们也不想承担为受害人伸张正义的责任。
Alex Delarge
If empathy has limits, it isn’t empathy. That is literally sextive empathy, which is directly lixed to an extreme, twisted morality.
如果同理心是局限性的，那它就不是同理心。这只是选择性的同理心，只有极端的、道德扭曲的人会这样。
If empathy has limits, it isn’t empathy. That is literally sextive empathy, which is directly lixed to an extreme, twisted morality.
如果同理心是局限性的，那它就不是同理心。这只是选择性的同理心，只有极端的、道德扭曲的人会这样。
Franek Speak
I'm glad you bring this up. I learned that usually peoples' so called empathy is based on their own experience, so it is indeed sextive and I agree that although it's most common, it's not a real empathy. However, I still think that even if I have a true empathy, which allows me to feel for any human being (even those troubled by completely unknown to me problems), I still have my common sense. This common sense will tell me that for my own sanity I should not be engaging with empathy towards for example serial killers. And even if we come to a conclusion that they are just troubled human beings which pushed them to commit such horrible things, do you think that it would take away the blame for their actions? Are you suggesting that no one is really responsible for their deeds? Then the concept of justice would be just obsolete. When we do a crime, we make a choice and we are willingly committing something bad and punishable. The punishment is just a consequence of that decision and that action, in some sense empathy has nothing to do with justice. Justice is served when the punishment is adequate to the crime, here we can say that the empathy would play a role to correctly assess the mitigating factors, but not to assess the blame. BTW justice is one of the most important foundations of our civilisation, without it we would be savages. I don't think that empathy should or is capable of replacing justice.
很高兴你提出这个问题。我了解到人们所谓的同理心通常是基于他们自己的经验，所以它确实是有选择性的，我同意虽然它最常见，但它不是真正的同理心。然而，我仍然认为，即使我有了你口中所谓的“真正的同理心”，让我可以对任何人感同身受（即使是那些被我完全不知道的问题所困扰的人），我仍然有我自己的常识。这种常识会告诉我，于情于理，我都不应该对连环杀手产生同理心。即使我们得出结论，他们只是陷入了困境的人，从而促使他们做出如此可怕的事情，但你认为这会消除他们所作出的行为的责任吗？你是在暗示没有人应该真正为自己的行为负责吗？那么正义的概念就会过时。
当我们犯罪时，我们就做出了选择，我们心甘情愿地犯下了应受惩罚的坏事。惩罚只是针对该决定和该行动的结果，在某种意义上，同理心与正义无关。刑罚适度，正义才得以伸张，同理心在这里可以起到的作用是正确评估是否可以从轻处置，而不是用来评估该行为是对是错。顺便说一句，正义是我们文明最重要的基础之一，没有它我们就会成为野蛮人。我不认为同理心应该或能够取代正义。
I'm glad you bring this up. I learned that usually peoples' so called empathy is based on their own experience, so it is indeed sextive and I agree that although it's most common, it's not a real empathy. However, I still think that even if I have a true empathy, which allows me to feel for any human being (even those troubled by completely unknown to me problems), I still have my common sense. This common sense will tell me that for my own sanity I should not be engaging with empathy towards for example serial killers. And even if we come to a conclusion that they are just troubled human beings which pushed them to commit such horrible things, do you think that it would take away the blame for their actions? Are you suggesting that no one is really responsible for their deeds? Then the concept of justice would be just obsolete. When we do a crime, we make a choice and we are willingly committing something bad and punishable. The punishment is just a consequence of that decision and that action, in some sense empathy has nothing to do with justice. Justice is served when the punishment is adequate to the crime, here we can say that the empathy would play a role to correctly assess the mitigating factors, but not to assess the blame. BTW justice is one of the most important foundations of our civilisation, without it we would be savages. I don't think that empathy should or is capable of replacing justice.
很高兴你提出这个问题。我了解到人们所谓的同理心通常是基于他们自己的经验，所以它确实是有选择性的，我同意虽然它最常见，但它不是真正的同理心。然而，我仍然认为，即使我有了你口中所谓的“真正的同理心”，让我可以对任何人感同身受（即使是那些被我完全不知道的问题所困扰的人），我仍然有我自己的常识。这种常识会告诉我，于情于理，我都不应该对连环杀手产生同理心。即使我们得出结论，他们只是陷入了困境的人，从而促使他们做出如此可怕的事情，但你认为这会消除他们所作出的行为的责任吗？你是在暗示没有人应该真正为自己的行为负责吗？那么正义的概念就会过时。
当我们犯罪时，我们就做出了选择，我们心甘情愿地犯下了应受惩罚的坏事。惩罚只是针对该决定和该行动的结果，在某种意义上，同理心与正义无关。刑罚适度，正义才得以伸张，同理心在这里可以起到的作用是正确评估是否可以从轻处置，而不是用来评估该行为是对是错。顺便说一句，正义是我们文明最重要的基础之一，没有它我们就会成为野蛮人。我不认为同理心应该或能够取代正义。
Sherry Burgess
Agree, like cockroaches, in my opinion, the only good child molester is a dead one.
同意，就像蟑螂一样，在我看来，唯一好的娈童者是死了的。
Agree, like cockroaches, in my opinion, the only good child molester is a dead one.
同意，就像蟑螂一样，在我看来，唯一好的娈童者是死了的。
Abdul Moiz Qureshi
What have hissing cockroaches ever done to you?
蟑螂招你惹你啦？
What have hissing cockroaches ever done to you?
蟑螂招你惹你啦？
Alex Delarge
It doesn’t hurt you to have empathy for all humans. I’ve seen people in abject turmoil over how much they want someone dead. This is, if anything, a mental illness.
对所有人类有怀有同情心并不会对你造成伤害。我见过一些人因为多么希望某人去死而陷入极度的混乱之中。如果算的话，这就是一种精神疾病。
It doesn’t hurt you to have empathy for all humans. I’ve seen people in abject turmoil over how much they want someone dead. This is, if anything, a mental illness.
对所有人类有怀有同情心并不会对你造成伤害。我见过一些人因为多么希望某人去死而陷入极度的混乱之中。如果算的话，这就是一种精神疾病。
Mark Slinger
They should have paid her what it would have cost to house him in prison for the rest of her life. The world would be a safer place, if citizens were allowed to carry out street justice. The criminal justice system exists ONLY to enrich lawyers and the government. FACT
他们应该把犯人余生安置在监狱里的费用都赔偿给这位母亲。如果允许公民执行街头正义，这个世界将是一个更安全的地方。事实就是刑事司法系统的存在仅仅是为了让律师和政府致富。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
They should have paid her what it would have cost to house him in prison for the rest of her life. The world would be a safer place, if citizens were allowed to carry out street justice. The criminal justice system exists ONLY to enrich lawyers and the government. FACT
他们应该把犯人余生安置在监狱里的费用都赔偿给这位母亲。如果允许公民执行街头正义，这个世界将是一个更安全的地方。事实就是刑事司法系统的存在仅仅是为了让律师和政府致富。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Harold
So no need for the courts, right? No need for laws, police, a fair trial. We'll just start taking matters into our own hands…? We can be the judge and jury on the streets and just settle it there. Wild West style!
所以不需要法庭了，对吗？不需要法律、警察、公平的审判。我们开始自己处理各种事情......？我们可以在街上当法官和陪审团，当场解决。狂野的西部风格!
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
So no need for the courts, right? No need for laws, police, a fair trial. We'll just start taking matters into our own hands…? We can be the judge and jury on the streets and just settle it there. Wild West style!
所以不需要法庭了，对吗？不需要法律、警察、公平的审判。我们开始自己处理各种事情......？我们可以在街上当法官和陪审团，当场解决。狂野的西部风格!
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Paul Rolling
She may have agreed with you, prior to the murder of her child.
在她的孩子被谋杀之前，她可能也是你的观点的支持者。
She may have agreed with you, prior to the murder of her child.
在她的孩子被谋杀之前，她可能也是你的观点的支持者。
Harold
Yeah, I don't need people to agree with me to form my own thoughts. I would never judge this mother though, but I definitely don't agree with her actions.
是的，我不需要人们同意我的观点来形成自己的想法。虽然我不会评判这位母亲，但我绝对不同意她的行为。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Yeah, I don't need people to agree with me to form my own thoughts. I would never judge this mother though, but I definitely don't agree with her actions.
是的，我不需要人们同意我的观点来形成自己的想法。虽然我不会评判这位母亲，但我绝对不同意她的行为。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Paul Rolling
You just did, and you’re of course free to make whatever judgements you please.
The point is that one can see how, when the most precious thing in her life was ripped from the world, her ability to think rationally would be inhibited.
你已经批评了，你当然可以自由地做出任何判断。
关键是，人们可以看到，当她生命中最宝贵的东西被从世界上剥离时，她的理性思考能力会受到抑制。
You just did, and you’re of course free to make whatever judgements you please.
The point is that one can see how, when the most precious thing in her life was ripped from the world, her ability to think rationally would be inhibited.
你已经批评了，你当然可以自由地做出任何判断。
关键是，人们可以看到，当她生命中最宝贵的东西被从世界上剥离时，她的理性思考能力会受到抑制。
Harold
No, there's a difference between judging someone's character and someone's actions. I understand why the mother did what she did. I as a parent empathize with her. Like I said before, the pain she felt I'm sure was unimaginable. But I'll draw the line at resorting to or condoning revenge or murder, which I believe this is…even if the courts don't.
不，评判一个人的性格和一个人的行为是有区别的。我理解这位母亲为什么这么做。作为父母，我对她感同身受。就像我之前说的，她感受到的痛苦我相信是无法想象的。但是，我对诉诸或纵容报复或谋杀的行为划清界限，我认为这种行为......即使法院不这么认为这不妥。
No, there's a difference between judging someone's character and someone's actions. I understand why the mother did what she did. I as a parent empathize with her. Like I said before, the pain she felt I'm sure was unimaginable. But I'll draw the line at resorting to or condoning revenge or murder, which I believe this is…even if the courts don't.
不，评判一个人的性格和一个人的行为是有区别的。我理解这位母亲为什么这么做。作为父母，我对她感同身受。就像我之前说的，她感受到的痛苦我相信是无法想象的。但是，我对诉诸或纵容报复或谋杀的行为划清界限，我认为这种行为......即使法院不这么认为这不妥。
Justin Hopkins
People like you scare me. You clearly support vigilante justice, extrajudicial killings and you’re willing to become wicked to punish the wicked. I’m certainly relieved that you’re not a judge.
“她帮了世界一个忙”
像你这样的人让我害怕。你显然支持私刑，支持法外杀人，你愿意变成恶人来惩罚恶人。还好你不是法官。
People like you scare me. You clearly support vigilante justice, extrajudicial killings and you’re willing to become wicked to punish the wicked. I’m certainly relieved that you’re not a judge.
“她帮了世界一个忙”
像你这样的人让我害怕。你显然支持私刑，支持法外杀人，你愿意变成恶人来惩罚恶人。还好你不是法官。
Jami Gilbert
Killed her daughter? .. … JUSTFIED!!!
杀了她的女儿？...支持正义执行！！！
Killed her daughter? .. … JUSTFIED!!!
杀了她的女儿？...支持正义执行！！！
Octavian Rusu
I think,she made him a favor. To be locked in for the rest of his life, would to be as an agonized death.
我认为，她是帮了他的忙。不如他的余生中都被关在监狱里面，这将是一种更痛苦的死亡方式。
I think,she made him a favor. To be locked in for the rest of his life, would to be as an agonized death.
我认为，她是帮了他的忙。不如他的余生中都被关在监狱里面，这将是一种更痛苦的死亡方式。
Holly Darling
People don't spend the rest of their lives in prison for murder any more.
现在已经不会再因为谋杀就要在监狱中度过余生了。
People don't spend the rest of their lives in prison for murder any more.
现在已经不会再因为谋杀就要在监狱中度过余生了。
Cool Woodsman
He won’t and taxpayers don’t have to pay $600,000 just to incarcerate him for 20 years. A low average cost is $30,000 per year. I don’t know if she was reimbursed for her 60 cent bullet. Let’s hope so.
他不会被判终身监禁，好在纳税人也不必为监禁他20年而支付60万美元了。监禁一个囚犯按比较低的平均成本算每年也要花3万美元。我不知道她60美分的子弹是否得到了报销。让我们希望如此。
He won’t and taxpayers don’t have to pay $600,000 just to incarcerate him for 20 years. A low average cost is $30,000 per year. I don’t know if she was reimbursed for her 60 cent bullet. Let’s hope so.
他不会被判终身监禁，好在纳税人也不必为监禁他20年而支付60万美元了。监禁一个囚犯按比较低的平均成本算每年也要花3万美元。我不知道她60美分的子弹是否得到了报销。让我们希望如此。
Joely D
This is back in the 80s when they still had the death penalty.
这是在80年代，那时候还有死刑呢。
This is back in the 80s when they still had the death penalty.
这是在80年代，那时候还有死刑呢。
Mark Burn
Not in West Germany he would have probably served 10 or so years
She got 6 years for his murder would have served 3
在西德，他可能会被判10年左右的时间。
这位母亲因谋杀了他而被判处了6年徒刑，实际服刑3年。
Not in West Germany he would have probably served 10 or so years
She got 6 years for his murder would have served 3
在西德，他可能会被判10年左右的时间。
这位母亲因谋杀了他而被判处了6年徒刑，实际服刑3年。
Christian Diener
The Federal Republic of Germany has never had the death penalty. It is and always has been unconstitutional in the Federal Republic of Germany, Art. 102 of the German Constitution.
德意志联邦共和国从未有过死刑。在德意志联邦共和国，死刑是而且一直是违宪的，根据德国宪法第102条。
The Federal Republic of Germany has never had the death penalty. It is and always has been unconstitutional in the Federal Republic of Germany, Art. 102 of the German Constitution.
德意志联邦共和国从未有过死刑。在德意志联邦共和国，死刑是而且一直是违宪的，根据德国宪法第102条。
Fabian Mcallister
Strangely enough, you're correct!
The guy convicted of murdering ten people and injuring sixteen in Canada has just been sentenced to 25 years. Canada’s supreme court has ruled that life sentences without the chance of parole are both “cruel” and unconstitutional, so they can't do ten consecutive sentences of 25 years.
The guy can apply for parole after 25 years……..
“现在已经不会再因为谋杀就要在监狱中度过余生了。”
奇怪的是，你说得很对！在加拿大被判谋杀10人、伤害16人的家伙刚刚被判处25年监禁。
加拿大最高法院裁定，没有假释机会的无期徒刑既"残酷"又违宪，所以他们不会作出连续判处10个25年的判决。
这家伙可以在25年后申请假释........
Strangely enough, you're correct!
The guy convicted of murdering ten people and injuring sixteen in Canada has just been sentenced to 25 years. Canada’s supreme court has ruled that life sentences without the chance of parole are both “cruel” and unconstitutional, so they can't do ten consecutive sentences of 25 years.
The guy can apply for parole after 25 years……..
“现在已经不会再因为谋杀就要在监狱中度过余生了。”
奇怪的是，你说得很对！在加拿大被判谋杀10人、伤害16人的家伙刚刚被判处25年监禁。
加拿大最高法院裁定，没有假释机会的无期徒刑既"残酷"又违宪，所以他们不会作出连续判处10个25年的判决。
这家伙可以在25年后申请假释........
Danny Cameron
He would have been pampered, use the Human Rights Act to get what he wants! Check out William Begg from Scotland, Killed a teen boy, cut him up in to bits & threw them in to Loch Lomond! He uses the HRA for everything, got a pay out of £5000 for a HRA violation, makes you think?
这家伙肯定没事的，可以利用《人权法》来达到他的目的! 看看苏格兰的威廉-贝格，杀了一个十几岁的男孩，把他切成碎片，然后扔进洛蒙德湖！他把《人权法案》用在了所有事情上，还因为检方违反了《人权法案》而得到了5000英镑的赔偿，你们怎么看？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
He would have been pampered, use the Human Rights Act to get what he wants! Check out William Begg from Scotland, Killed a teen boy, cut him up in to bits & threw them in to Loch Lomond! He uses the HRA for everything, got a pay out of £5000 for a HRA violation, makes you think?
这家伙肯定没事的，可以利用《人权法》来达到他的目的! 看看苏格兰的威廉-贝格，杀了一个十几岁的男孩，把他切成碎片，然后扔进洛蒙德湖！他把《人权法案》用在了所有事情上，还因为检方违反了《人权法案》而得到了5000英镑的赔偿，你们怎么看？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Ben Agaran
It wouldn’t have been for the rest of his life. 15–20 years at most.
他不会被判终身监禁的，最多15-20年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It wouldn’t have been for the rest of his life. 15–20 years at most.
他不会被判终身监禁的，最多15-20年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Jeff Mitchner
They should have revived him so she could have done it again to him.
他们应该把他救活，这样这位母亲就可以再干掉他一次。
They should have revived him so she could have done it again to him.
他们应该把他救活，这样这位母亲就可以再干掉他一次。
Joely D
Even the best doctor or paramedic cannot revive him …
即使是最好的医生或医护人员也无法救活他 ...
Even the best doctor or paramedic cannot revive him …
即使是最好的医生或医护人员也无法救活他 ...
John Stevens
When it comes to loved ones and someone visitinf evil on them there are only two obstacles. Time and opportunity.
I completely empathize with her. I thank God that I have never been in her position.
当涉及到所爱的人和就在身边的邪恶时，只有两个障碍：时间和机会。
我完全同情她。我感谢上帝，我从未处于她的位置。
When it comes to loved ones and someone visitinf evil on them there are only two obstacles. Time and opportunity.
I completely empathize with her. I thank God that I have never been in her position.
当涉及到所爱的人和就在身边的邪恶时，只有两个障碍：时间和机会。
我完全同情她。我感谢上帝，我从未处于她的位置。
Tim Dowling
According to Grabowski, Anna tried to seduce him sickening. You kill a totally innocent victim and then revictimize her in court.
By the way, he has therewith admitted guilt, so good riddance.
根据格拉博夫斯基（注：被执行正义的犯人）的说法，是安娜（注：被他奸杀的小女孩）试图勾引他，真是令人作呕。你杀了一个完全无辜的受害者，然后还在法庭上对她污名化。
顺便说一句，他已经承认了自己的罪行，那就好办了。
According to Grabowski, Anna tried to seduce him sickening. You kill a totally innocent victim and then revictimize her in court.
By the way, he has therewith admitted guilt, so good riddance.
根据格拉博夫斯基（注：被执行正义的犯人）的说法，是安娜（注：被他奸杀的小女孩）试图勾引他，真是令人作呕。你杀了一个完全无辜的受害者，然后还在法庭上对她污名化。
顺便说一句，他已经承认了自己的罪行，那就好办了。
James Mccutchen
I would have felt more satisfaction in using my hands than a gun. But given the time constraints, a gun would do.
我本来觉得用手打死比用枪更有满足感。但考虑到时间的限制，还是枪吧。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I would have felt more satisfaction in using my hands than a gun. But given the time constraints, a gun would do.
我本来觉得用手打死比用枪更有满足感。但考虑到时间的限制，还是枪吧。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
No1Run
Good for her. I would go the extra mile and say she should have added all people who tried to arrest her, anyone in the system stupid enough to come after her. I would go so far.
对她来说是好事。如果是我，我会更极端，比如会干掉所有试图逮捕她的人，体制中任何愚蠢到要来找她麻烦的人。我会这么极端。
Good for her. I would go the extra mile and say she should have added all people who tried to arrest her, anyone in the system stupid enough to come after her. I would go so far.
对她来说是好事。如果是我，我会更极端，比如会干掉所有试图逮捕她的人，体制中任何愚蠢到要来找她麻烦的人。我会这么极端。
Justin Hopkins
Vigilante justice often ends up harming innocent people. She could have easily killed someone else. We can’t have people running around shooting everyone who wronged them. That’s not justice, that’s chaos and no different from “The Purge”. She turned one murder into two. This achieved absolutely nothing.
私刑正义的结果往往是伤害了无辜的人。她本可以轻易地杀死其他人。我们不能让人们到处乱跑，射杀每一个觉得对不起他们的人。那不是正义，那是混乱，与"大清洗"没有区别。她把一件谋杀案变成了两件。这完全没有达到任何效果。
Vigilante justice often ends up harming innocent people. She could have easily killed someone else. We can’t have people running around shooting everyone who wronged them. That’s not justice, that’s chaos and no different from “The Purge”. She turned one murder into two. This achieved absolutely nothing.
私刑正义的结果往往是伤害了无辜的人。她本可以轻易地杀死其他人。我们不能让人们到处乱跑，射杀每一个觉得对不起他们的人。那不是正义，那是混乱，与"大清洗"没有区别。她把一件谋杀案变成了两件。这完全没有达到任何效果。
Maj J
When justice is denied by those responsible for it, one occasionally has to take matters into one’s own hands.
当正义被理应负起责任的人剥夺时，人们偶尔不得不自己动手。
When justice is denied by those responsible for it, one occasionally has to take matters into one’s own hands.
当正义被理应负起责任的人剥夺时，人们偶尔不得不自己动手。
Christian Diener
The guy was on trial. He would very likely have been convicted (after all, he had admitted to having murdered the little girl) and then been punished pursuant to the laws in place. No justice being denied here. The only thing that was against the law was what Ms Bachmeier did. Do I feel sorry for a child molester and murderer, though? No, I do not. Do I feel that it was not only legal (no question there) but also just to punish Ms Bachmeier? I do. Am I happy about the outcome of two people being dead and one going to jail (she had to spent something like four years behind bars). Certainly not.
那个人正在接受审判。他很可能会被定罪（毕竟他已经承认谋杀了那个小女孩），然后根据现有的法律受到惩罚。这里没有拒绝执行正义的情况。唯一违反法律的是巴赫梅尔女士的行为。但是，我会为一个猥亵和谋杀儿童的人感到难过吗？不，我不会。那么我是否觉得惩罚巴赫梅尔女士不仅是合法的（毫无疑问），而且是公正的？我觉得是的。我对两个人死亡和一个人入狱的结果感到高兴吗（她不得不在监狱中度过大约四年的时间）。当然不是。
The guy was on trial. He would very likely have been convicted (after all, he had admitted to having murdered the little girl) and then been punished pursuant to the laws in place. No justice being denied here. The only thing that was against the law was what Ms Bachmeier did. Do I feel sorry for a child molester and murderer, though? No, I do not. Do I feel that it was not only legal (no question there) but also just to punish Ms Bachmeier? I do. Am I happy about the outcome of two people being dead and one going to jail (she had to spent something like four years behind bars). Certainly not.
那个人正在接受审判。他很可能会被定罪（毕竟他已经承认谋杀了那个小女孩），然后根据现有的法律受到惩罚。这里没有拒绝执行正义的情况。唯一违反法律的是巴赫梅尔女士的行为。但是，我会为一个猥亵和谋杀儿童的人感到难过吗？不，我不会。那么我是否觉得惩罚巴赫梅尔女士不仅是合法的（毫无疑问），而且是公正的？我觉得是的。我对两个人死亡和一个人入狱的结果感到高兴吗（她不得不在监狱中度过大约四年的时间）。当然不是。
Maj J
What was the maximum sentence he could have gotten under German law? Assuming that he was not going to be deemed mentally unstable and sent to a hospital of course; which was the more likely outcome.
根据德国法律，他能得到的最高判决是什么？而且还要假设他不会被视为精神不稳定而被送入医院；这是更可能的结果。
What was the maximum sentence he could have gotten under German law? Assuming that he was not going to be deemed mentally unstable and sent to a hospital of course; which was the more likely outcome.
根据德国法律，他能得到的最高判决是什么？而且还要假设他不会被视为精神不稳定而被送入医院；这是更可能的结果。
Christian Diener
Life. Mandatory for murder. And no, a German life sentence is not X years. Life means life. There is a chance of parole after 15 years. A chance, nothing more. The longest sentence (where the person did not actually die in prison) so far was 59 years…
But there is also a good chance (or risk) of subsequent preventive detention even if the person does qualify for parole.
What makes you think that he would have been deemed mentally unstable? And even if so, (i) he would have been sent to a mental institution until he was no longer a risk to anybody and (ii) it would be really wrong to punish somebody who is mentally ill and does not understand what they are/were doing, so this certainly cannot be a justification for Ms Bachmeier.
（刑期是）一生。对有预谋的谋杀罪来说是强制性的。而且，德国的无期徒刑不是X年。无期指的是终身。15年后会有一个假释的机会。但也只是一个机会，仅此而已。到目前为止，最长的刑期（当事人没有真正死在监狱里）是59年......
但是，即使这个人确实有资格获得假释，也可以很容易（或风险）进行后续的预防性拘留。
你为什么认为他会被认为精神不稳定？即使是这样，（i）他也会被送进精神病院，直到他不再对任何人构成威胁，（ii）惩罚一个有精神疾病、不明白自己正在/正在做什么的人确实是错误的，所以这当然不能成为巴赫梅尔女士的理由。
Life. Mandatory for murder. And no, a German life sentence is not X years. Life means life. There is a chance of parole after 15 years. A chance, nothing more. The longest sentence (where the person did not actually die in prison) so far was 59 years…
But there is also a good chance (or risk) of subsequent preventive detention even if the person does qualify for parole.
What makes you think that he would have been deemed mentally unstable? And even if so, (i) he would have been sent to a mental institution until he was no longer a risk to anybody and (ii) it would be really wrong to punish somebody who is mentally ill and does not understand what they are/were doing, so this certainly cannot be a justification for Ms Bachmeier.
（刑期是）一生。对有预谋的谋杀罪来说是强制性的。而且，德国的无期徒刑不是X年。无期指的是终身。15年后会有一个假释的机会。但也只是一个机会，仅此而已。到目前为止，最长的刑期（当事人没有真正死在监狱里）是59年......
但是，即使这个人确实有资格获得假释，也可以很容易（或风险）进行后续的预防性拘留。
你为什么认为他会被认为精神不稳定？即使是这样，（i）他也会被送进精神病院，直到他不再对任何人构成威胁，（ii）惩罚一个有精神疾病、不明白自己正在/正在做什么的人确实是错误的，所以这当然不能成为巴赫梅尔女士的理由。
Maj J
Ah, but it could be argued that this killing was not premeditated. In any case, is it your opinion that a comfortable 15 year sentence (which you say was a possibility) would have been sufficient punishment for the act committed in this case?
I believe that, six years earlier, he was convicted of the sexual molestation of two young girls and deemed psychologically addicted and incapable of controlling his urges. He was even allegedly made to undergo chemical castration. It's all hogwash though, chemical castration does not stop sexual urges, and this argument for mental incapacity could potentially be pleaded for any criminal whatsoever. Apparently, his mental incapacity did not prevent him from planning and carrying out her molestation and murder successfully.
There was every indication that he would have undergone a few more months of 'therapy’ and let go to grin at his victim's mother (his neighbour) in the face over their mutual fence every morning, while plotting on how to capture, molest and murder more young victims. Taking him out of society as the plucky mother did was the only way to rid society of his 'addiction’ and its effect on the neighbourhood.
嗯，但可以说这起杀人案并不是有预谋的。在这种可能的情况下，你认为不咸不淡的15年刑期（你说这是一种可能性）对本案所犯行为的惩罚是否足够？
据我所知，本案发生前六年，他因性骚扰两名少女而被定罪，并被认为在心理上有瘾，没有能力控制自己的冲动。据称，他甚至被要求接受化学阉割。但这都是胡说八道，化学阉割并不能阻止性冲动，而且这种“精神上无行为能力”的论点有可能被用于对任何罪犯的辩护。很显然，他的“精神无行为能力”并没有阻止他成功地计划和实施对本案中的小女孩的猥亵和谋杀。
各种迹象表明，他本应再接受几个月的"治疗"的，事实却是他每天早上都可以在他们家共同的栅栏上对着受害者的母亲（他的邻居）的脸笑，同时策划如何捕捉、猥亵和谋杀更多的年轻受害者。像那个勇敢的母亲那样把他从社会中删除是帮他摆脱他的“瘾”及其对邻里的影响的唯一方法。
Ah, but it could be argued that this killing was not premeditated. In any case, is it your opinion that a comfortable 15 year sentence (which you say was a possibility) would have been sufficient punishment for the act committed in this case?
I believe that, six years earlier, he was convicted of the sexual molestation of two young girls and deemed psychologically addicted and incapable of controlling his urges. He was even allegedly made to undergo chemical castration. It's all hogwash though, chemical castration does not stop sexual urges, and this argument for mental incapacity could potentially be pleaded for any criminal whatsoever. Apparently, his mental incapacity did not prevent him from planning and carrying out her molestation and murder successfully.
There was every indication that he would have undergone a few more months of 'therapy’ and let go to grin at his victim's mother (his neighbour) in the face over their mutual fence every morning, while plotting on how to capture, molest and murder more young victims. Taking him out of society as the plucky mother did was the only way to rid society of his 'addiction’ and its effect on the neighbourhood.
嗯，但可以说这起杀人案并不是有预谋的。在这种可能的情况下，你认为不咸不淡的15年刑期（你说这是一种可能性）对本案所犯行为的惩罚是否足够？
据我所知，本案发生前六年，他因性骚扰两名少女而被定罪，并被认为在心理上有瘾，没有能力控制自己的冲动。据称，他甚至被要求接受化学阉割。但这都是胡说八道，化学阉割并不能阻止性冲动，而且这种“精神上无行为能力”的论点有可能被用于对任何罪犯的辩护。很显然，他的“精神无行为能力”并没有阻止他成功地计划和实施对本案中的小女孩的猥亵和谋杀。
各种迹象表明，他本应再接受几个月的"治疗"的，事实却是他每天早上都可以在他们家共同的栅栏上对着受害者的母亲（他的邻居）的脸笑，同时策划如何捕捉、猥亵和谋杀更多的年轻受害者。像那个勇敢的母亲那样把他从社会中删除是帮他摆脱他的“瘾”及其对邻里的影响的唯一方法。
AD du Jonquier
I get your perfectly valid point. It is only the justice of men though, not absolutely a moral justice.
Indeed it would be better that people don't start killing each other off out of revenge. However that woman has done it and it is a fair moral punishment for the crime(s) of that man.
At the end of the day, she has the moral high ground and did serve a certain justice.
In certain societies, it is actually up to the victim to determine the punishment of the perpetrator. It somehow makes sense as only the victim can truly forgive, or not, the perpetrator. Only the victim can quantify the pain inflicted to them.
我明白你的观点完全正确。不过只是人的正义，而不是绝对的道德正义。
的确，人们最好不要因为复仇而开始互相残杀。然而，那个女人已经这样做了，这也是对那个男人的罪行的公平的道德惩罚。
归根结底，她拥有道德制高点，而且确实起到了一定的正义作用。
在某些社会中，实际上会由受害者来决定对犯罪者的惩罚。这在某种程度上是有道理的，因为只有受害者才能真正原谅，或不原谅犯罪者。只有受害者可以量化对他们造成的痛苦。
I get your perfectly valid point. It is only the justice of men though, not absolutely a moral justice.
Indeed it would be better that people don't start killing each other off out of revenge. However that woman has done it and it is a fair moral punishment for the crime(s) of that man.
At the end of the day, she has the moral high ground and did serve a certain justice.
In certain societies, it is actually up to the victim to determine the punishment of the perpetrator. It somehow makes sense as only the victim can truly forgive, or not, the perpetrator. Only the victim can quantify the pain inflicted to them.
我明白你的观点完全正确。不过只是人的正义，而不是绝对的道德正义。
的确，人们最好不要因为复仇而开始互相残杀。然而，那个女人已经这样做了，这也是对那个男人的罪行的公平的道德惩罚。
归根结底，她拥有道德制高点，而且确实起到了一定的正义作用。
在某些社会中，实际上会由受害者来决定对犯罪者的惩罚。这在某种程度上是有道理的，因为只有受害者才能真正原谅，或不原谅犯罪者。只有受害者可以量化对他们造成的痛苦。
Mark Slinger
The Law is an ass. Tell me why it is illegal to enforce justice on the murderer of ones child. For good social order? Give me a break, look at the hordes of homeless sleeping in the streets, open borders to the South, both things are against the law, yet the laws are not enforced. It is illegal to own a gun in Chicago, yet there is gun violence nightly, on weekends the death total in gun violence is commonly 5 people, with a dozen shot but who survive. Get back to me when laws are equally applied, or even JUSTLY applied.
法律就是个屁。告诉我为什么对杀害孩子的凶手伸张正义是违法的。为了良好的社会秩序？饶了我吧，看看成群结队睡在大街上的无家可归者，向南方开放边界，这两件事都是违法的，但法律却没有得到执行。在芝加哥拥有枪支是违法的，但每晚都有枪支暴力事件，周末枪支暴力事件的死亡总数通常为 5 人，一般会有十几个人被枪击，但他们都活了下来。当法律能够平等地应用，甚至只是适时地应用时，请再回来找我。
The Law is an ass. Tell me why it is illegal to enforce justice on the murderer of ones child. For good social order? Give me a break, look at the hordes of homeless sleeping in the streets, open borders to the South, both things are against the law, yet the laws are not enforced. It is illegal to own a gun in Chicago, yet there is gun violence nightly, on weekends the death total in gun violence is commonly 5 people, with a dozen shot but who survive. Get back to me when laws are equally applied, or even JUSTLY applied.
法律就是个屁。告诉我为什么对杀害孩子的凶手伸张正义是违法的。为了良好的社会秩序？饶了我吧，看看成群结队睡在大街上的无家可归者，向南方开放边界，这两件事都是违法的，但法律却没有得到执行。在芝加哥拥有枪支是违法的，但每晚都有枪支暴力事件，周末枪支暴力事件的死亡总数通常为 5 人，一般会有十几个人被枪击，但他们都活了下来。当法律能够平等地应用，甚至只是适时地应用时，请再回来找我。
Duane Quinn
HERO!!!!
英雄！！！！
HERO!!!!
英雄！！！！
Victor Gray
Justified, save a lot of tax dollars
合理的，节省了大量的税收
Justified, save a lot of tax dollars
合理的，节省了大量的税收
Ankita S
I would have killed anyone that harms my child too.
我也会杀死任何伤害我孩子的人。
I would have killed anyone that harms my child too.
我也会杀死任何伤害我孩子的人。
Mario Hunstorfer
I remember that sad story very well. Public opinion in (West) Germany was deeply divided over what she did. An astonishingly large number of people commended and defended her, others thought (rightfully so, in my opinion) her act of vigilantism to be irreconcilable with German law, even though some of those people still expressed at least a certain level of understanding for her action. I certainly do have an understanding for why she did what she did, even though it could be said that Marianne Bachmeier wasn't always the best mother. The media coverage that followed was sometimes controversial and heavily biased. Her name got dragged through the mud when they reported on her private life. She was ultimately sentenced to six years in prison for manslaughter but got paroled after four years. Upon her release she left Germany for some time and only came back when she fell seriously ill. The sad end came in 1996 when she died of pancreatic cancer and was buried next to her daughter. I always found hers to be a terribly poignant story.
我非常清楚地记得那个悲伤的故事。德国（西）的公众舆论对她的所作所为有很大分歧。令人惊讶的是，大量的人赞扬并为她辩护，其他人则认为（在我看来，这是正确的）她的自卫行为与德国法律不可调和，尽管其中一些人仍然对她的行为表示了至少一定程度的理解。我当然理解她为什么要这样做，尽管可以说玛丽安-巴赫梅尔并不一直是最好的母亲。随后的媒体报道有时是有争议的，而且有很大的偏见。当他们报道她的私人生活时，她的名字被拖进了泥潭。她最终因过失杀人罪被判处6年监禁，但4年后获得假释。出狱后，她离开德国一段时间，直到重病才回来。悲惨的结局是在1996年，她死于胰腺癌，被埋在她女儿的旁边。我一直认为她的故事是一个非常凄美的故事。
I remember that sad story very well. Public opinion in (West) Germany was deeply divided over what she did. An astonishingly large number of people commended and defended her, others thought (rightfully so, in my opinion) her act of vigilantism to be irreconcilable with German law, even though some of those people still expressed at least a certain level of understanding for her action. I certainly do have an understanding for why she did what she did, even though it could be said that Marianne Bachmeier wasn't always the best mother. The media coverage that followed was sometimes controversial and heavily biased. Her name got dragged through the mud when they reported on her private life. She was ultimately sentenced to six years in prison for manslaughter but got paroled after four years. Upon her release she left Germany for some time and only came back when she fell seriously ill. The sad end came in 1996 when she died of pancreatic cancer and was buried next to her daughter. I always found hers to be a terribly poignant story.
我非常清楚地记得那个悲伤的故事。德国（西）的公众舆论对她的所作所为有很大分歧。令人惊讶的是，大量的人赞扬并为她辩护，其他人则认为（在我看来，这是正确的）她的自卫行为与德国法律不可调和，尽管其中一些人仍然对她的行为表示了至少一定程度的理解。我当然理解她为什么要这样做，尽管可以说玛丽安-巴赫梅尔并不一直是最好的母亲。随后的媒体报道有时是有争议的，而且有很大的偏见。当他们报道她的私人生活时，她的名字被拖进了泥潭。她最终因过失杀人罪被判处6年监禁，但4年后获得假释。出狱后，她离开德国一段时间，直到重病才回来。悲惨的结局是在1996年，她死于胰腺癌，被埋在她女儿的旁边。我一直认为她的故事是一个非常凄美的故事。
Xander Hawkins
Agreed with you completely. It is shocking how many people support these murderers who take justice into their own hands. We have due process for a reason, same in America, and if anyone is denied a trial for an accused crime, that is a constitutional denial of rights.
No criminal, no matter how egregious the accused crime, should be punished or killed without the due process of law taking place first…
完全同意你的看法。令人震惊的是，有这么多人支持这些将正义掌握在自己手中的谋杀犯。我们讲究程序正义是有原因的，在美国也是如此，如果任何人被剥夺了对被指控的罪行的审判，那就是宪法规定的权利被剥夺。
任何罪犯，无论被指控的罪行多么恶劣，都不应该在没有经过适当法律程序的情况下受到惩罚或被杀害......
Agreed with you completely. It is shocking how many people support these murderers who take justice into their own hands. We have due process for a reason, same in America, and if anyone is denied a trial for an accused crime, that is a constitutional denial of rights.
No criminal, no matter how egregious the accused crime, should be punished or killed without the due process of law taking place first…
完全同意你的看法。令人震惊的是，有这么多人支持这些将正义掌握在自己手中的谋杀犯。我们讲究程序正义是有原因的，在美国也是如此，如果任何人被剥夺了对被指控的罪行的审判，那就是宪法规定的权利被剥夺。
任何罪犯，无论被指控的罪行多么恶劣，都不应该在没有经过适当法律程序的情况下受到惩罚或被杀害......
Melissa Barham
I'm just thankful that I have never been put in her position. I can't imagine the agony of heart and pure rage that she must have felt Taking a life for any reason is a sin.
我只是庆幸我从未处于她的位置。我无法想象她内心的痛苦和纯粹的愤怒，她也一定觉得以任何理由夺取生命都是一种罪恶。
I'm just thankful that I have never been put in her position. I can't imagine the agony of heart and pure rage that she must have felt Taking a life for any reason is a sin.
我只是庆幸我从未处于她的位置。我无法想象她内心的痛苦和纯粹的愤怒，她也一定觉得以任何理由夺取生命都是一种罪恶。
Arun Vaya
Mother is a mother with instinct. The law of nature is stronger than the law of the land.
母亲是有一种本能的。自然法则大于国家法律。
Mother is a mother with instinct. The law of nature is stronger than the law of the land.
母亲是有一种本能的。自然法则大于国家法律。
Jeff Ober
She fired 8 shots an hit him with 6. That's pretty damn good. 100% justified btw
她开了8枪，6枪打中了他，枪法真他妈的好。顺便说一下这么做100%合理
She fired 8 shots an hit him with 6. That's pretty damn good. 100% justified btw
她开了8枪，6枪打中了他，枪法真他妈的好。顺便说一下这么做100%合理
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