延迟和超支的HS2可能在未来15年内都无法俢通到伦敦市中心 - 甚至永远都修不到
正文翻译
The government has refused to deny reports that HS2 may not run to Euston until 2038 - if it ever reaches there at all.
政府拒绝否认有关HS2可能要到2038年才能修到尤斯顿的报道——如果它真的能修到那里的话。
Map shows journey from Old Oak Common to central London
地图显示了从老橡树公园到伦敦市中心的路线
Delayed and over-budget HS2 may not run to central London for another 15 years - or ever
-High-speed trains would instead stop at a new hub in Old Oak Common where commuters would continue their journeys into central London using the Elizabeth Line, according to reports.
延迟和超支的HS2可能在未来15年内都无法俢通到伦敦市中心——甚至永远都修不到
——据报道，高铁将在老橡树公园的一个新枢纽停靠，通勤者将继续换乘伊丽莎白线前往伦敦市中心。
-High-speed trains would instead stop at a new hub in Old Oak Common where commuters would continue their journeys into central London using the Elizabeth Line, according to reports.
延迟和超支的HS2可能在未来15年内都无法俢通到伦敦市中心——甚至永远都修不到
——据报道，高铁将在老橡树公园的一个新枢纽停靠，通勤者将继续换乘伊丽莎白线前往伦敦市中心。
The government has refused to deny reports that HS2 may not run to Euston until 2038 - if it ever reaches there at all.
政府拒绝否认有关HS2可能要到2038年才能修到尤斯顿的报道——如果它真的能修到那里的话。
Soaring inflation means plans for the high-speed rail project to run to central London may be scrapped completely, with trains instead stopping at a new hub at Old Oak Common in the suburbs of west London, The Sun reports.
据《太阳报》报道，不断飙升的通货膨胀意味着通往伦敦市中心的高铁项目计划可能会被完全取消，列车将在伦敦西部郊区的老橡树公园的一个新枢纽停靠。
据《太阳报》报道，不断飙升的通货膨胀意味着通往伦敦市中心的高铁项目计划可能会被完全取消，列车将在伦敦西部郊区的老橡树公园的一个新枢纽停靠。
Commuters would have to finish their journeys into the city centre by using the Elizabeth Line.
通勤者将不得不换乘伊丽莎白线完成前往市中心的旅程。
通勤者将不得不换乘伊丽莎白线完成前往市中心的旅程。
A two to five-year delay to the entire project, at present due to be completed between 2029 and 2033, is being considered, according to the newspaper.
据该报报道，目前正在考虑将整个项目进度推迟两到五年，目前计划在2029年至2033年之间完成。
据该报报道，目前正在考虑将整个项目进度推迟两到五年，目前计划在2029年至2033年之间完成。
Map shows journey from Old Oak Common to central London
地图显示了从老橡树公园到伦敦市中心的路线
PLAN YOUR HS2 ROUTE INTO LONDON
Old Oak Common station - which is yet to be built - could end up being the final southern destination for HS2, and not Euston Station.
This may well save the government billions – but what will the impact be on passengers?
Let's say Euston is your final destination.
You would get off at the new station - which will be fairly close to Hammersmith in west London - and take the Elizabeth Line to Tottenham Court Road… a journey of around 15 minutes.
From there, you could take the Northern Line two stops to Euston.
Or, if you're feeling energetic, it's a 20-minute walk.
（计划好前往伦敦的HS2路线
尚未建成的老橡树普通站可能最终成为HS2的最终南部终点站，而不是尤斯顿站。
这可能会节省数十亿美元，但对乘客会有什么影响呢？
假设尤斯顿是你的最终目的地。
你可以在新站下车，新站离伦敦西部的汉默史密斯相当近，然后换乘伊丽莎白线到托特纳姆法院路，大约15分钟的路程。
从那里，你可以坐北线两站到尤斯顿。
或者，如果你觉得精力充沛，那就步行20分钟。）
Old Oak Common station - which is yet to be built - could end up being the final southern destination for HS2, and not Euston Station.
This may well save the government billions – but what will the impact be on passengers?
Let's say Euston is your final destination.
You would get off at the new station - which will be fairly close to Hammersmith in west London - and take the Elizabeth Line to Tottenham Court Road… a journey of around 15 minutes.
From there, you could take the Northern Line two stops to Euston.
Or, if you're feeling energetic, it's a 20-minute walk.
（计划好前往伦敦的HS2路线
尚未建成的老橡树普通站可能最终成为HS2的最终南部终点站，而不是尤斯顿站。
这可能会节省数十亿美元，但对乘客会有什么影响呢？
假设尤斯顿是你的最终目的地。
你可以在新站下车，新站离伦敦西部的汉默史密斯相当近，然后换乘伊丽莎白线到托特纳姆法院路，大约15分钟的路程。
从那里，你可以坐北线两站到尤斯顿。
或者，如果你觉得精力充沛，那就步行20分钟。）
Asked about the report, the Department for Transport said: "The government remains committed to delivering HS2 to Manchester, as confirmed in the autumn statement.
当被问及该报告时，交通部表示：“政府仍然致力于向曼彻斯特交付HS2，这一点已在秋季声明中得到证实。
当被问及该报告时，交通部表示：“政府仍然致力于向曼彻斯特交付HS2，这一点已在秋季声明中得到证实。
"As well as supporting tens of thousands of jobs, the project will connect regions across the UK, improve capacity on our railways and provide a greener option of travel."
“除了支持数以万计的就业岗位，该项目还将连接英国各地，提高我们的铁路运力，并提供更环保的出行选择。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
“除了支持数以万计的就业岗位，该项目还将连接英国各地，提高我们的铁路运力，并提供更环保的出行选择。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
HS2's website still features plans for the trains to travel to Euston and says a new station there will have 10 450m platforms.
HS2的网站上仍然有前往尤斯顿的列车计划，并表示那里的一个新车站将有10个450米站台。
HS2的网站上仍然有前往尤斯顿的列车计划，并表示那里的一个新车站将有10个450米站台。
It adds that the station will be used by up to 17 high-speed trains per hour at "peak operation".
它补充说，在“高峰运营”时，该站每小时将有多达17列高速列车使用。
它补充说，在“高峰运营”时，该站每小时将有多达17列高速列车使用。
Campaigner calls for project to be scrapped
活动人士呼吁取消该项目
活动人士呼吁取消该项目
The HS2 project has been dogged by criticism over its financial and environmental impact.
HS2项目一直因其财务和环境影响受到批评。
HS2项目一直因其财务和环境影响受到批评。
In October 2021 Michael Gove, the levelling up secretary, suggested capital investment for HS2 would be reviewed but Jeremy Hunt, the chancellor, subsequently backed the project.
2021年10月，产业升级大臣迈克尔·戈夫建议对HS2的资本投资进行审查，但财政大臣杰里米·亨特随后支持该项目。
2021年10月，产业升级大臣迈克尔·戈夫建议对HS2的资本投资进行审查，但财政大臣杰里米·亨特随后支持该项目。
The target cost of Phase 1 between London and Birmingham was £40.3bn at 2019 prices.
按2019年价格计算，伦敦和伯明翰之间第一阶段的目标成本为403亿英镑。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
按2019年价格计算，伦敦和伯明翰之间第一阶段的目标成本为403亿英镑。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
A budget of £55.7bn for the whole of HS2 was set in 2015.
2015年，HS2的预算为557亿英镑。
2015年，HS2的预算为557亿英镑。
Penny Gaines, of the campaign group Stop HS2, said it is "not at all surprising" that costs are spiralling out of control.
“停止HS2”运动组织的潘妮·盖恩斯说，成本失控“一点也不奇怪”。
“停止HS2”运动组织的潘妮·盖恩斯说，成本失控“一点也不奇怪”。
She added: "These reports just show that there are so many problems with HS2. It's being delayed further and further so the cost is going up, it should be cancelled in its entirety as soon as possible.
她补充说：“这些报告只是表明HS2存在很多问题。它被越来越多地推迟，所以成本在上升，应该尽快全部取消。
她补充说：“这些报告只是表明HS2存在很多问题。它被越来越多地推迟，所以成本在上升，应该尽快全部取消。
"Stop spending money building a railway people don't need. Use the money to restore the countryside and the areas that are being devastated by HS2 and look at the solutions that people need in the 21st century.
“停止花钱修建一条人们不需要的铁路。用这笔钱来恢复农村和被HS2破坏的地区，并寻找人们在21世纪需要的解决方案。
“停止花钱修建一条人们不需要的铁路。用这笔钱来恢复农村和被HS2破坏的地区，并寻找人们在21世纪需要的解决方案。
"It's London-centric and now it turns out that it's not even going to manage to get to the centre of London."
“它以伦敦为中心，现在却连伦敦市中心都开不进去。”
“它以伦敦为中心，现在却连伦敦市中心都开不进去。”
Following a speech in London on Friday, Mr Hunt was asked about the project by journalists.
周五，亨特先生在伦敦发表演讲后，被记者问及该项目。
周五，亨特先生在伦敦发表演讲后，被记者问及该项目。
"HS2 was a specific priority for me in the autumn statement," he said.
他说：“在秋季声明中，HS2是我的具体优先事项。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
他说：“在秋季声明中，HS2是我的具体优先事项。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
"I am incredibly proud, that under a Conservative government, for the first time we have shovels in the ground for the London to Birmingham part of HS2.
“我非常自豪，在保守党政府的领导下，我们第一次为HS2从伦敦到伯明翰的部分奠了基。
“我非常自豪，在保守党政府的领导下，我们第一次为HS2从伦敦到伯明翰的部分奠了基。
"And we are absolutely committed to showing that we can deliver big, important infrastructure projects."
“我们绝对致力于向世人展示，我们有能力完成大型、重要的基础设施项目。”
“我们绝对致力于向世人展示，我们有能力完成大型、重要的基础设施项目。”
评论翻译
DreamingIntoTheVoid
The conservative government are pioneers of High Speed Fail.
保守党政府是HS下马的先驱。
The conservative government are pioneers of High Speed Fail.
保守党政府是HS下马的先驱。
haversack77
It smacks of the kind of publicly funded scheme that was set up entirely because some financier Tory donor extracted a promise that his company would be awarded construction projects or finance packages. in return for his donation.
Think about it. Prior to the announcement of HS2, who was calling for it?
Labour blindly went along with it because they're into the idea of infrastructure projects, not because it's a good idea in itself.
它有点像那种公共资助的计划，完全是因为一些金融家保守党捐赠者获得了一项承诺，即他的公司将获得建筑项目或融资计划。以作为对他捐赠的回报。
想想看。在宣布HS2之前，是谁在呼吁它？
工党盲目地附和，只是因为他们对基础设施项目的想法感兴趣，而不是因为这本身是个好主意。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It smacks of the kind of publicly funded scheme that was set up entirely because some financier Tory donor extracted a promise that his company would be awarded construction projects or finance packages. in return for his donation.
Think about it. Prior to the announcement of HS2, who was calling for it?
Labour blindly went along with it because they're into the idea of infrastructure projects, not because it's a good idea in itself.
它有点像那种公共资助的计划，完全是因为一些金融家保守党捐赠者获得了一项承诺，即他的公司将获得建筑项目或融资计划。以作为对他捐赠的回报。
想想看。在宣布HS2之前，是谁在呼吁它？
工党盲目地附和，只是因为他们对基础设施项目的想法感兴趣，而不是因为这本身是个好主意。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
CoastalChickenWest Midlands Nomad
Most of these problems go back to the 50s and 60s when cars were seen as the future and we axed huge chunks of railway, in particular the Great Central Line north from London to the industrial midlands…a line which would be perfect to move freight onto and keep the West Coast Mainline as a passenger route. It was even built to European loading gauges as they hoped one day to build a tunnel to France…
It probably would have been cheaper to rebuild the great central as a freight route now rather than the growing disaster that is HS2.
这些问题大多可以追溯到50年代和60年代，当时汽车被视为未来，我们砍掉了大量的铁路，特别是从伦敦北部到工业中部地区的大中央线，这条线本可以完美地运输货物，同时保留西海岸干线作为客运路线。它甚至是依照欧洲的载重仪表建造的，因为他们希望有一天能建造一条通往法国的铁路隧道……
现在重建大中央铁路作为一条货运路线，可能会比HS2日益严重的灾难更便宜。
Most of these problems go back to the 50s and 60s when cars were seen as the future and we axed huge chunks of railway, in particular the Great Central Line north from London to the industrial midlands…a line which would be perfect to move freight onto and keep the West Coast Mainline as a passenger route. It was even built to European loading gauges as they hoped one day to build a tunnel to France…
It probably would have been cheaper to rebuild the great central as a freight route now rather than the growing disaster that is HS2.
这些问题大多可以追溯到50年代和60年代，当时汽车被视为未来，我们砍掉了大量的铁路，特别是从伦敦北部到工业中部地区的大中央线，这条线本可以完美地运输货物，同时保留西海岸干线作为客运路线。它甚至是依照欧洲的载重仪表建造的，因为他们希望有一天能建造一条通往法国的铁路隧道……
现在重建大中央铁路作为一条货运路线，可能会比HS2日益严重的灾难更便宜。
StayFree1649
You're talking out of your arse here mate.
1、HS2 Process started under Labour
2、Everybody agrees that the railways are shit & we need to invest in modern railways
3、HS2 is fucking great & would save me 40 minutes each way every day to work + mean I could sit down instead of standing
We're just allergic to actually doing anything in the UK
你在扯淡，伙计。
1、HS2项目是在工党执政期间启动的
2、每个人都认为铁路是垃圾，我们需要投资现代铁路
3、HS2太tm棒了，每天上下班可以节省40分钟，这意味着我可以坐着而不是站着
我们只是对在英国做的任何事情都过敏
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You're talking out of your arse here mate.
1、HS2 Process started under Labour
2、Everybody agrees that the railways are shit & we need to invest in modern railways
3、HS2 is fucking great & would save me 40 minutes each way every day to work + mean I could sit down instead of standing
We're just allergic to actually doing anything in the UK
你在扯淡，伙计。
1、HS2项目是在工党执政期间启动的
2、每个人都认为铁路是垃圾，我们需要投资现代铁路
3、HS2太tm棒了，每天上下班可以节省40分钟，这意味着我可以坐着而不是站着
我们只是对在英国做的任何事情都过敏
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
DrachenDad
I agree with 1 and 2. What else would save you 40 minutes each way every day to work? Modernising the infrastructure we already have, or replacing it, adding another practically parallel system just isn't worthwhile.
我同意1和2。但还有什么能让你每天上下班单程节省40分钟呢？对我们已经拥有的基础设施进行现代化改造，或者取代它，增加另一条实际上平行的客运系统是不划算的。
I agree with 1 and 2. What else would save you 40 minutes each way every day to work? Modernising the infrastructure we already have, or replacing it, adding another practically parallel system just isn't worthwhile.
我同意1和2。但还有什么能让你每天上下班单程节省40分钟呢？对我们已经拥有的基础设施进行现代化改造，或者取代它，增加另一条实际上平行的客运系统是不划算的。
StayFree1649
People throw the word "modernising" around as if it's magic... We could spend a LOT of money on the current railways and get almost no improvement.
For example, we "modernised" the west coast main line from 1998-2009 (11 years of disruption). It cost £9 billion and increased capacity by roughly 25%.... But the trains are full again now and you can't modernise that line again.... Which is the point of HS2
HS2 more than doubles capacity on that line, that is the big advantage. It also makes it easier to maintain both lines, as there will be an alternative route.
The other big benefit of a new line is that it splits up intercity and local trains into separate lines. Which means you can have more of both because they're not constantly getting in each others way.
人们到处提及“现代化改造”这个词，好像它有魔力似的……我们可以在现有的铁路上花很多钱，但几乎没有改善。
比如，从1998年到2009年（中断了11年），我们对西海岸干线进行了“现代化”改造。它耗资90亿英镑，增加了大约25%的容运载力……但是现在火车又满了，你已经无法再现代化这条线路了……这正是修建HS2的重点所在
HS2的运力是这条线路的两倍多，这是其最大的优势。这也使得维护两条线路更容易，因为会有另一条路线作为临时替代。
新线路的另一大好处是它将城际列车和本地列车分割成单独的线路。这意味着你可以拥有更多的两种线路，因为它们不会经常相互阻碍。
People throw the word "modernising" around as if it's magic... We could spend a LOT of money on the current railways and get almost no improvement.
For example, we "modernised" the west coast main line from 1998-2009 (11 years of disruption). It cost £9 billion and increased capacity by roughly 25%.... But the trains are full again now and you can't modernise that line again.... Which is the point of HS2
HS2 more than doubles capacity on that line, that is the big advantage. It also makes it easier to maintain both lines, as there will be an alternative route.
The other big benefit of a new line is that it splits up intercity and local trains into separate lines. Which means you can have more of both because they're not constantly getting in each others way.
人们到处提及“现代化改造”这个词，好像它有魔力似的……我们可以在现有的铁路上花很多钱，但几乎没有改善。
比如，从1998年到2009年（中断了11年），我们对西海岸干线进行了“现代化”改造。它耗资90亿英镑，增加了大约25%的容运载力……但是现在火车又满了，你已经无法再现代化这条线路了……这正是修建HS2的重点所在
HS2的运力是这条线路的两倍多，这是其最大的优势。这也使得维护两条线路更容易，因为会有另一条路线作为临时替代。
新线路的另一大好处是它将城际列车和本地列车分割成单独的线路。这意味着你可以拥有更多的两种线路，因为它们不会经常相互阻碍。
haversack77
Every man, woman and child in the UK will have to pay about £15000 in tax payers money each to build a railway that will save a few hundred per day commuters between Birmingham and London about 15 minutes on their journey time. I live 25 miles from Birmingham and it takes me 1.5 hours to get to the HS2 station, door to door, meaning it is of zero benefit to me or the vast majority of the nation.
HS2 is the wrong answer to the wrong question. Literally nobody was asking for it beforehand.
The costs continue to balloon up and we're stuck with a sunk cost fallacy of both parties' making.
英国的每个男人、女人和孩子将每人支付大约1.5万英镑的纳税人的钱来修建一条铁路，这将为每天往返于伯明翰和伦敦之间的小几百号通勤者节省路程耗时15分钟左右。我住在离伯明翰25英里的地方，从出门到进站，我要花1.5小时，这意味着它对我或这个国家的绝大多数人都没有任何好处。
HS2是错误问题的错误答案。实际上，没有人事先要求它。
成本继续膨胀，我们陷入了双方制造的沉没成本谬误。
Every man, woman and child in the UK will have to pay about £15000 in tax payers money each to build a railway that will save a few hundred per day commuters between Birmingham and London about 15 minutes on their journey time. I live 25 miles from Birmingham and it takes me 1.5 hours to get to the HS2 station, door to door, meaning it is of zero benefit to me or the vast majority of the nation.
HS2 is the wrong answer to the wrong question. Literally nobody was asking for it beforehand.
The costs continue to balloon up and we're stuck with a sunk cost fallacy of both parties' making.
英国的每个男人、女人和孩子将每人支付大约1.5万英镑的纳税人的钱来修建一条铁路，这将为每天往返于伯明翰和伦敦之间的小几百号通勤者节省路程耗时15分钟左右。我住在离伯明翰25英里的地方，从出门到进站，我要花1.5小时，这意味着它对我或这个国家的绝大多数人都没有任何好处。
HS2是错误问题的错误答案。实际上，没有人事先要求它。
成本继续膨胀，我们陷入了双方制造的沉没成本谬误。
StayFree1649
HS2 will be a functioning railway that pays for itself over it's 100+ years through ticket prices. You're not paying for shit, we're borrowing money until the ticket income starts.
The fact we also have shit local transport does not mean we shouldn't invest in intercity transport We don't have to choose
HS2 is about capacity, not speed. Tens of thousands of extra seats available every day. From Sheffield to London, I often have to stand & ticket prices are insane - we need more capacity than our Victorian railways can provide
HS2将是一条正常运行的铁路，在100多年的时间里，通过票价来收回成本。你什么都不用付，我们现在在借钱，直到开始有车票收入了。
我们的本地交通也很糟糕，但这并不意味着我们不应该投资城际交通，我们不必二选一
HS2重在运力，而不是速度。每天都会因此有成千上万的额外座位。从谢菲尔德到伦敦，我经常不得不站着，票价高得离谱——我们需要比维多利亚铁路更大的运力
HS2 will be a functioning railway that pays for itself over it's 100+ years through ticket prices. You're not paying for shit, we're borrowing money until the ticket income starts.
The fact we also have shit local transport does not mean we shouldn't invest in intercity transport We don't have to choose
HS2 is about capacity, not speed. Tens of thousands of extra seats available every day. From Sheffield to London, I often have to stand & ticket prices are insane - we need more capacity than our Victorian railways can provide
HS2将是一条正常运行的铁路，在100多年的时间里，通过票价来收回成本。你什么都不用付，我们现在在借钱，直到开始有车票收入了。
我们的本地交通也很糟糕，但这并不意味着我们不应该投资城际交通，我们不必二选一
HS2重在运力，而不是速度。每天都会因此有成千上万的额外座位。从谢菲尔德到伦敦，我经常不得不站着，票价高得离谱——我们需要比维多利亚铁路更大的运力
haversack77
You're very naive if you think the tax payer is going to see a penny of it's investment back again. The running of HS2 will be farmed out to private franchises, run by corporations with their headquarters in offshore tax havens. Taxpayers will get bollocks all from this shit show, and yet be forced to pay the inflated fares that will inevitably be imposed upon the route. This is the sad inevitability of Tory economics.
如果你认为纳税人的投资能收回一分钱，那你就太天真了。HS2的运营将交由私人特许经营，由总部位于离岸避税天堂的公司运营。纳税人将从这该死的节目中得到所有的P话，但被迫支付将不可避免地强加在这条路线上的虚高票价。这是保守党经济学令人悲哀的必然结果。
You're very naive if you think the tax payer is going to see a penny of it's investment back again. The running of HS2 will be farmed out to private franchises, run by corporations with their headquarters in offshore tax havens. Taxpayers will get bollocks all from this shit show, and yet be forced to pay the inflated fares that will inevitably be imposed upon the route. This is the sad inevitability of Tory economics.
如果你认为纳税人的投资能收回一分钱，那你就太天真了。HS2的运营将交由私人特许经营，由总部位于离岸避税天堂的公司运营。纳税人将从这该死的节目中得到所有的P话，但被迫支付将不可避免地强加在这条路线上的虚高票价。这是保守党经济学令人悲哀的必然结果。
intensiifffyyyy
HS2 itself is a great idea but the cost is outrageous and I do think it's some sort of financial package thing.
I was in Europe a few months ago, took a TGV from Paris and 2 hours later I was in Lyon. That infrastructure cost a modest €4.8bn real today currency. The HS2 budget with Leeds in 2015 was £55.7bn which spiralled to a minimum of £72bn in 2019.
Where is the money going and if it's not malicious, how can you be so incompetent with public funds?
HS2本身是一个好主意，但成本高得离谱，我确实认为这是某种金融一揽子计划。
几个月前我在欧洲，从巴黎乘坐巴黎至里昂高铁， 2小时后我就到了里昂。修建这些基础设施花费了48亿欧元（按现价计算）。利兹的HS2预算在2015年为557亿英镑，在2019年螺旋式上升到了至少720亿英镑。
这些钱都去哪里了？如果不是恶意的，你怎么能对公共资金如此无能呢？
HS2 itself is a great idea but the cost is outrageous and I do think it's some sort of financial package thing.
I was in Europe a few months ago, took a TGV from Paris and 2 hours later I was in Lyon. That infrastructure cost a modest €4.8bn real today currency. The HS2 budget with Leeds in 2015 was £55.7bn which spiralled to a minimum of £72bn in 2019.
Where is the money going and if it's not malicious, how can you be so incompetent with public funds?
HS2本身是一个好主意，但成本高得离谱，我确实认为这是某种金融一揽子计划。
几个月前我在欧洲，从巴黎乘坐巴黎至里昂高铁， 2小时后我就到了里昂。修建这些基础设施花费了48亿欧元（按现价计算）。利兹的HS2预算在2015年为557亿英镑，在2019年螺旋式上升到了至少720亿英镑。
这些钱都去哪里了？如果不是恶意的，你怎么能对公共资金如此无能呢？
mudman13
Pre covid it was a good idea and arguably it still is IF freight is moved onto the mainline. However with changing work trends and advancement in electric vehicles and communication technology that may not be the case anymore.
在新冠疫情之前，这是一个好主意，现在如果货运转移到主线上，可以说这仍然是一个好主意。然而，随着工作趋势的变化以及电动汽车和通信技术的进步，现在已经不是这么回事了。
Pre covid it was a good idea and arguably it still is IF freight is moved onto the mainline. However with changing work trends and advancement in electric vehicles and communication technology that may not be the case anymore.
在新冠疫情之前，这是一个好主意，现在如果货运转移到主线上，可以说这仍然是一个好主意。然而，随着工作趋势的变化以及电动汽车和通信技术的进步，现在已经不是这么回事了。
matomo23
It absolutely is still a good idea. The COVID effect is over-egged.
I regularly get the train from Liverpool to Euston, they’re mostly absolutely rammed and frequently get held up due to local trains on the same line.
We NEED dedicated high speed lines for long distance traffic only. Most big European countries realised this many decades ago!
这绝对仍然是一个好主意。疫情影响被夸大了。
我经常乘坐从利物浦到尤斯顿的火车，这些火车大多都非常拥挤，而且经常因为同一条线路上的当地火车而晚点。
我们只需要长途交通专用的高铁线路。大多数欧洲大国几十年前就意识到了这一点！
It absolutely is still a good idea. The COVID effect is over-egged.
I regularly get the train from Liverpool to Euston, they’re mostly absolutely rammed and frequently get held up due to local trains on the same line.
We NEED dedicated high speed lines for long distance traffic only. Most big European countries realised this many decades ago!
这绝对仍然是一个好主意。疫情影响被夸大了。
我经常乘坐从利物浦到尤斯顿的火车，这些火车大多都非常拥挤，而且经常因为同一条线路上的当地火车而晚点。
我们只需要长途交通专用的高铁线路。大多数欧洲大国几十年前就意识到了这一点！
newfor2023
We don't have enough room to just go direct anywhere without huge cost and left everything too late in planning it all to begin with. Still needs doing but it's 50 years too late minimum.
我们没有足够的空间在不用巨大成本的情况下直接前往任何地方（英国国土太小，不划算），而且在开始计划时一切都太晚了。仍然需要做，但至少晚了50年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
We don't have enough room to just go direct anywhere without huge cost and left everything too late in planning it all to begin with. Still needs doing but it's 50 years too late minimum.
我们没有足够的空间在不用巨大成本的情况下直接前往任何地方（英国国土太小，不划算），而且在开始计划时一切都太晚了。仍然需要做，但至少晚了50年。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Karn1v3rus
Electric cars are just as unsustainable from a development perspective as ICE cars are. They take up the same space and create distances between things only they can reduce.
The only solution to traffic and congestion is proper public transport.
从发展的角度来看，电动汽车和内燃机汽车一样不可持续。它们占据了相同的空间，并在事物之间创造了只有它们才能缩小的距离。
解决交通和拥堵的唯一办法是合理的公共交通。
Electric cars are just as unsustainable from a development perspective as ICE cars are. They take up the same space and create distances between things only they can reduce.
The only solution to traffic and congestion is proper public transport.
从发展的角度来看，电动汽车和内燃机汽车一样不可持续。它们占据了相同的空间，并在事物之间创造了只有它们才能缩小的距离。
解决交通和拥堵的唯一办法是合理的公共交通。
NoLegJoe
HS2 is probably one of the most important infrastructure projects for the nation this century, and they keep watering it down. First dropping the line to Leeds, now it might not even go to Euston. What a nightmare.
HS2可能是本世纪国家最重要的基础设施项目之一，而他们一直在淡化它。先是放弃了利兹线，现在可能连尤斯顿都去不了了。真是一场噩梦。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
HS2 is probably one of the most important infrastructure projects for the nation this century, and they keep watering it down. First dropping the line to Leeds, now it might not even go to Euston. What a nightmare.
HS2可能是本世纪国家最重要的基础设施项目之一，而他们一直在淡化它。先是放弃了利兹线，现在可能连尤斯顿都去不了了。真是一场噩梦。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
daern2Yorkshire
I was upset by them dropping the line to Leeds. Then I realised that, had it gone ahead, the timelines would have meant that I would be retired by the time it actually opened. Once I'm retired, I'm quite looking forward to not having to go to London very often and, especially, not rushing to get there.
For me, the big stuff up was when they axed the HS1/HS2 lix which would have allowed Eurostar to run to the North. Getting a direct train from Leeds to Europe would have been excellent, especially if, rather than choosing Brexit, we'd have gone down the Schengen route instead thus removing a stack of unnecessary bureaucracy from the process. Sadly, we decided to be more insular rather than more connected and will pay the price for this for many years to come.
他们放弃了利兹线，我很生气。但然后我意识到，如果它继续推进这条线，那施工时间线将意味着在它真正开始运营时我已经退休了。一旦我退休了，我很期待不用经常去伦敦，尤其是不用急着去那里（反而用不上了）。
对我来说，最重要的事情是他们砍掉了本将使欧洲之星运行到北方的HS1/HS2连接线。如果能从利兹直达欧洲，那就太好了，尤其是如果我们不选择英国脱欧，而是选择申根路线，从而从这个过程中消除一堆不必要的官僚手续的话。可悲的是，我们决定变得更加孤立，而不是更加紧密相连，并将在未来许多年为此付出代价。
I was upset by them dropping the line to Leeds. Then I realised that, had it gone ahead, the timelines would have meant that I would be retired by the time it actually opened. Once I'm retired, I'm quite looking forward to not having to go to London very often and, especially, not rushing to get there.
For me, the big stuff up was when they axed the HS1/HS2 lix which would have allowed Eurostar to run to the North. Getting a direct train from Leeds to Europe would have been excellent, especially if, rather than choosing Brexit, we'd have gone down the Schengen route instead thus removing a stack of unnecessary bureaucracy from the process. Sadly, we decided to be more insular rather than more connected and will pay the price for this for many years to come.
他们放弃了利兹线，我很生气。但然后我意识到，如果它继续推进这条线，那施工时间线将意味着在它真正开始运营时我已经退休了。一旦我退休了，我很期待不用经常去伦敦，尤其是不用急着去那里（反而用不上了）。
对我来说，最重要的事情是他们砍掉了本将使欧洲之星运行到北方的HS1/HS2连接线。如果能从利兹直达欧洲，那就太好了，尤其是如果我们不选择英国脱欧，而是选择申根路线，从而从这个过程中消除一堆不必要的官僚手续的话。可悲的是，我们决定变得更加孤立，而不是更加紧密相连，并将在未来许多年为此付出代价。
NoLegJoe
I can't get my head around your first point. Old men should plant trees whose shade they'll never sit under, and all that.
Your second point, I'm in complete agreement. Maybe one day a HS lix may be possible. Dumping people on one side of London and leaving them to figure out how to navigate the underground before picking up the second half of their journey to Europe is pretty bonkers.
我搞不懂你的第一点。老一辈就应该种一些自己永远无法坐在其树荫下的树，诸如此类的（前人栽树后人乘凉有问题吗）。
关于你的第二点，我完全同意。也许有一天HS连接线有可能修通吧。把人们扔在伦敦的一边，让他们自己摸索如何乘坐地铁，然后再踏上前往欧洲的后半段旅程，这太抓狂了。
I can't get my head around your first point. Old men should plant trees whose shade they'll never sit under, and all that.
Your second point, I'm in complete agreement. Maybe one day a HS lix may be possible. Dumping people on one side of London and leaving them to figure out how to navigate the underground before picking up the second half of their journey to Europe is pretty bonkers.
我搞不懂你的第一点。老一辈就应该种一些自己永远无法坐在其树荫下的树，诸如此类的（前人栽树后人乘凉有问题吗）。
关于你的第二点，我完全同意。也许有一天HS连接线有可能修通吧。把人们扔在伦敦的一边，让他们自己摸索如何乘坐地铁，然后再踏上前往欧洲的后半段旅程，这太抓狂了。
dwairKernow
HS2 is probably one of the most important infrastructure projects for the nation this century
It is if you ever have a chance to use (or can afford) the rail lixs to London from the North it will be.
Down here in Cornwall we just see it as an expensive vanity project whilst we continue to suffer catastrophic infrastructure failure through sustained and repeated lack of funding from Westminster.
6 hours on the train or 5 1/2 hours by minimum car (sometimes over 10 in the summer) to London which is only 250miles away on a trunk road that isn't even a duel carriageway in places and passes through minor villages and hamlets. We aren't looking for 21st century solutions on the peninsular. We would be happy getting a 20th century one.
“HS2可能是本世纪国家最重要的基础设施项目之一”
如果你有机会使用（或负担得起）从北方到伦敦的铁路，那就是。
在康沃尔，我们认为这只是一个昂贵的面子工程，而我们继续遭受灾难性的基础设施失败，因为威斯敏斯特持续不断地缺乏资金。
坐6个小时的火车或至少5个半小时的汽车（夏天有时超过10个小时）到250英里外的伦敦，这条主线道上甚至没有双行线，还穿过小村庄和村落。我们这不是在半岛上寻找21世纪的解决方案。我们会很高兴找到一个20世纪的方案。
HS2 is probably one of the most important infrastructure projects for the nation this century
It is if you ever have a chance to use (or can afford) the rail lixs to London from the North it will be.
Down here in Cornwall we just see it as an expensive vanity project whilst we continue to suffer catastrophic infrastructure failure through sustained and repeated lack of funding from Westminster.
6 hours on the train or 5 1/2 hours by minimum car (sometimes over 10 in the summer) to London which is only 250miles away on a trunk road that isn't even a duel carriageway in places and passes through minor villages and hamlets. We aren't looking for 21st century solutions on the peninsular. We would be happy getting a 20th century one.
“HS2可能是本世纪国家最重要的基础设施项目之一”
如果你有机会使用（或负担得起）从北方到伦敦的铁路，那就是。
在康沃尔，我们认为这只是一个昂贵的面子工程，而我们继续遭受灾难性的基础设施失败，因为威斯敏斯特持续不断地缺乏资金。
坐6个小时的火车或至少5个半小时的汽车（夏天有时超过10个小时）到250英里外的伦敦，这条主线道上甚至没有双行线，还穿过小村庄和村落。我们这不是在半岛上寻找21世纪的解决方案。我们会很高兴找到一个20世纪的方案。
NoLegJoe
Cornwall isn't prioritised for a high speed rail line because it isn't the most congested rail line in Europe. Naturally, we start where the demand is highest, that is the west coast main line.
With the successful completion of HS2, I hope we can leverage skills we've learnt, and the talent we've fostered to build more high speed lixs across the country (including Cornwall).
Calling it a vanity project because it doesn't directly benefit yourself is a bit crabs-in-a-bucket if you ask me.
康沃尔郡不重视高铁，因为它不是欧洲最拥堵的铁路线。显然，我们从需求最高的地方开始，那就是西海岸主线。
随着HS2的顺利完工，我希望我们可以利用我们所学到的技能，以及我们培养的人才，在全国范围内（包括康沃尔）建设更多的高速铁路。
如果你问我，因为它对你没有直接的好处就把它称为一个面子项目，这有点见不得别人好的味道。
Cornwall isn't prioritised for a high speed rail line because it isn't the most congested rail line in Europe. Naturally, we start where the demand is highest, that is the west coast main line.
With the successful completion of HS2, I hope we can leverage skills we've learnt, and the talent we've fostered to build more high speed lixs across the country (including Cornwall).
Calling it a vanity project because it doesn't directly benefit yourself is a bit crabs-in-a-bucket if you ask me.
康沃尔郡不重视高铁，因为它不是欧洲最拥堵的铁路线。显然，我们从需求最高的地方开始，那就是西海岸主线。
随着HS2的顺利完工，我希望我们可以利用我们所学到的技能，以及我们培养的人才，在全国范围内（包括康沃尔）建设更多的高速铁路。
如果你问我，因为它对你没有直接的好处就把它称为一个面子项目，这有点见不得别人好的味道。
rugbyjSomerset
Although relieving the pressure on those lines is a great benefit, areas like Cornwall all across the UK are dying for both commerce and local communities because of lack of travel access. London/Birmingham/Leeds aren't.
It's like saying "we'll start our rescue where there's the most flooding" rather than "we'll start our rescue where the people are actively drowning".
To note, I'd be happy with HS2, it does serve a purpose. But the lack of basic travel infrastructure in many areas across the UK means you either own a car or you're fucked.
Neither the town I live in nor the town I work are small, they're only 8 miles apart, there's no signficiant boundary or hurdle between them (and plenty of road routes). And yet it's a 3 hour bus ride between them. One way.
For the £98bn projected for HS2, the government could have bought 40,000 electric buses (before bulk discounts), and still has £60bn leftover to pay drivers, charging, and maintenance for the next 10 years.
尽管缓解这些线路的压力是一个巨大的好处，但由于缺乏旅行访问，英国各地类似康沃尔的地区的商业和当地社区都在消亡。但伦敦、伯明翰、利兹没有。
这就像是说“我们将从洪水最严重的地方开始救援”，而不是“我们将从人们正在溺水的地方开始救援”。
请注意，我对HS2没意见，它确实有一定的作用。但英国许多地区缺乏基本的旅行基础设施，这意味着你要么拥有一辆车，否则会很cao蛋。
我居住的城镇和我工作的城镇都不大，它们之间只有8英里的距离，没有明显的边界或障碍（而且有很多道路）。然而他们之间要坐3个小时的公交车。而且就只有1路。
对于HS2计划的980亿英镑，政府本可以用来购买4万辆电动巴士（还不算批量采购的折扣），而且还有600亿英镑剩余资金用于支付未来10年的司机、充电和维护费用。
Although relieving the pressure on those lines is a great benefit, areas like Cornwall all across the UK are dying for both commerce and local communities because of lack of travel access. London/Birmingham/Leeds aren't.
It's like saying "we'll start our rescue where there's the most flooding" rather than "we'll start our rescue where the people are actively drowning".
To note, I'd be happy with HS2, it does serve a purpose. But the lack of basic travel infrastructure in many areas across the UK means you either own a car or you're fucked.
Neither the town I live in nor the town I work are small, they're only 8 miles apart, there's no signficiant boundary or hurdle between them (and plenty of road routes). And yet it's a 3 hour bus ride between them. One way.
For the £98bn projected for HS2, the government could have bought 40,000 electric buses (before bulk discounts), and still has £60bn leftover to pay drivers, charging, and maintenance for the next 10 years.
尽管缓解这些线路的压力是一个巨大的好处，但由于缺乏旅行访问，英国各地类似康沃尔的地区的商业和当地社区都在消亡。但伦敦、伯明翰、利兹没有。
这就像是说“我们将从洪水最严重的地方开始救援”，而不是“我们将从人们正在溺水的地方开始救援”。
请注意，我对HS2没意见，它确实有一定的作用。但英国许多地区缺乏基本的旅行基础设施，这意味着你要么拥有一辆车，否则会很cao蛋。
我居住的城镇和我工作的城镇都不大，它们之间只有8英里的距离，没有明显的边界或障碍（而且有很多道路）。然而他们之间要坐3个小时的公交车。而且就只有1路。
对于HS2计划的980亿英镑，政府本可以用来购买4万辆电动巴士（还不算批量采购的折扣），而且还有600亿英镑剩余资金用于支付未来10年的司机、充电和维护费用。
Uk_gee
Down here in Cornwall we just see it as an expensive vanity project whilst we continue to suffer catastrophic infrastructure failure through sustained and repeated lack of funding from Westminster.
It's not just Cornwall, here in Birmingham even as the second city we are one of the biggest metropolitan areas without a proper mass transit system for the general public and we lose billions yearly in productivity as a result
The UK is unique as a country where large metropolitan areas outside of London don't see the economic benefit of size on productivity and this is one of the reasons. Most people live in car infested areas that can't even get into the centre within 30 minutes. We have had barely any investment in proper public transport and are lumped with sluggish bus services, congestion and pollution.
We need large infrastructure projects to actually grow the country and hs2 is a start. It will give space for commuter rail projects that are now able to take place.
“在康沃尔，我们认为这只是一个昂贵的面子工程，而我们继续遭受灾难性的基础设施失败，因为威斯敏斯特持续不断地缺乏资金”
不仅是康沃尔，伯明翰也一样，尽管伯明翰是英国第二大城市，但我们是最大的大都市区之一，没有为公众提供适当的公共交通系统，因此我们每年损失数十亿美元的生产力
英国是一个独特的国家，伦敦以外的大都市地区看不到规模对生产力的经济效益，这是原因之一。大多数人住在汽车密集的地区，30分钟内甚至都无法到达市中心。我们几乎没有在合理的公共交通方面进行任何投资，并与迟缓的公共汽车服务、拥堵和污染搅在一起。
我们需要大型基础设施项目来真正发展国家，HS2是一个开始。它将为现在能够实施的通勤铁路项目提供空间。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Down here in Cornwall we just see it as an expensive vanity project whilst we continue to suffer catastrophic infrastructure failure through sustained and repeated lack of funding from Westminster.
It's not just Cornwall, here in Birmingham even as the second city we are one of the biggest metropolitan areas without a proper mass transit system for the general public and we lose billions yearly in productivity as a result
The UK is unique as a country where large metropolitan areas outside of London don't see the economic benefit of size on productivity and this is one of the reasons. Most people live in car infested areas that can't even get into the centre within 30 minutes. We have had barely any investment in proper public transport and are lumped with sluggish bus services, congestion and pollution.
We need large infrastructure projects to actually grow the country and hs2 is a start. It will give space for commuter rail projects that are now able to take place.
“在康沃尔，我们认为这只是一个昂贵的面子工程，而我们继续遭受灾难性的基础设施失败，因为威斯敏斯特持续不断地缺乏资金”
不仅是康沃尔，伯明翰也一样，尽管伯明翰是英国第二大城市，但我们是最大的大都市区之一，没有为公众提供适当的公共交通系统，因此我们每年损失数十亿美元的生产力
英国是一个独特的国家，伦敦以外的大都市地区看不到规模对生产力的经济效益，这是原因之一。大多数人住在汽车密集的地区，30分钟内甚至都无法到达市中心。我们几乎没有在合理的公共交通方面进行任何投资，并与迟缓的公共汽车服务、拥堵和污染搅在一起。
我们需要大型基础设施项目来真正发展国家，HS2是一个开始。它将为现在能够实施的通勤铁路项目提供空间。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Ambry
I moved down to the South West from Scotland. We were going to a festival in Cornwall from Bristol and I naively looked at the map and thought that will be fine to get to, won't take long at all on the bus.
I honestly couldn't believe how long it took, the roads just aren't good enough. Really seems like the government are content for Cornwall to be a place where rich people can have their holiday homes without providing any support to locals. Better roads and rail sorely needed there.
我从苏格兰搬到了西南部。我们从布里斯托尔去康沃尔参加一个节日，我天真地看了看地图，以为去那里很方便，坐公交车不会花很长时间。
结果我真的不敢相信花了这么长时间，道路实在是不咋的。看起来政府真的很满足康沃尔成为一个富人可以度假的地方，而不为当地人提供任何支持。那里急需更好的公路和铁路。
I moved down to the South West from Scotland. We were going to a festival in Cornwall from Bristol and I naively looked at the map and thought that will be fine to get to, won't take long at all on the bus.
I honestly couldn't believe how long it took, the roads just aren't good enough. Really seems like the government are content for Cornwall to be a place where rich people can have their holiday homes without providing any support to locals. Better roads and rail sorely needed there.
我从苏格兰搬到了西南部。我们从布里斯托尔去康沃尔参加一个节日，我天真地看了看地图，以为去那里很方便，坐公交车不会花很长时间。
结果我真的不敢相信花了这么长时间，道路实在是不咋的。看起来政府真的很满足康沃尔成为一个富人可以度假的地方，而不为当地人提供任何支持。那里急需更好的公路和铁路。
dwairKernow
This why over the last century Cornwall has become one of the most economically deprived areas in western Europe. It takes a sustained effort to make things get this bad. Without modern transport lixs it will never improve.
这就是为什么在上个世纪康沃尔成为西欧经济最贫困的地区之一。把事情弄得这么糟需要持续的努力。如果没有现代交通，它将永远不会改善。
This why over the last century Cornwall has become one of the most economically deprived areas in western Europe. It takes a sustained effort to make things get this bad. Without modern transport lixs it will never improve.
这就是为什么在上个世纪康沃尔成为西欧经济最贫困的地区之一。把事情弄得这么糟需要持续的努力。如果没有现代交通，它将永远不会改善。
MozerfuckerJonesWales
For England not the UK
（HS2）是对英格兰有利，不是对英国
For England not the UK
（HS2）是对英格兰有利，不是对英国
AstraLover69
No, for the UK.
Anything that's big enough to significantly impact England is big enough to impact the UK, given that the UK is mostly England.
Not only that, but any sort of economic growth in one portion of the UK is economic growth for the UK as a whole. The infrastructure may only exist in one of the constituent countries, but it's impact can be beneficial for the entire UK.
不，就是对英国有利。
任何足以对英格兰产生重大影响的事情都足以对英国产生影响，因为英国主体就是英格兰。
不仅如此，英国某一部分的任何形式的经济增长都是英国整体的经济增长。基础设施可能只存在于一个组成国家，但它的影响可以对整个英国有益。
No, for the UK.
Anything that's big enough to significantly impact England is big enough to impact the UK, given that the UK is mostly England.
Not only that, but any sort of economic growth in one portion of the UK is economic growth for the UK as a whole. The infrastructure may only exist in one of the constituent countries, but it's impact can be beneficial for the entire UK.
不，就是对英国有利。
任何足以对英格兰产生重大影响的事情都足以对英国产生影响，因为英国主体就是英格兰。
不仅如此，英国某一部分的任何形式的经济增长都是英国整体的经济增长。基础设施可能只存在于一个组成国家，但它的影响可以对整个英国有益。
MozerfuckerJonesWales
No, not for the UK if that economic growth doesn't equal investment in the areas that are falling behind. It's England, and London primarily.
不，如果经济增长不等于对落后地区的投资，那么就不是对英国有利。就只是有利于英格兰，主要就是伦敦。
No, not for the UK if that economic growth doesn't equal investment in the areas that are falling behind. It's England, and London primarily.
不，如果经济增长不等于对落后地区的投资，那么就不是对英国有利。就只是有利于英格兰，主要就是伦敦。
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