为什么二战期间苏联的生命损失如此巨大？
正文翻译
Why was loss of life so massive for Soviets during WW2?
为什么二战期间苏联人的生命损失如此巨大？
Why was loss of life so massive for Soviets during WW2?
为什么二战期间苏联人的生命损失如此巨大？
Looking at those charts of WW2 casualties by country (like this one) I always get startled by how massively Soviet casualties outnumber even those of China, even though Japanese military's brutality and cruelty is more infamous than that of Germans.
看看不同国家的二战伤亡人数图表（比如这张），我总是对苏联的伤亡人数甚至超过中国感到震惊，尽管日本军队的残暴和残忍比德国人更臭名昭著。
看看不同国家的二战伤亡人数图表（比如这张），我总是对苏联的伤亡人数甚至超过中国感到震惊，尽管日本军队的残暴和残忍比德国人更臭名昭著。
评论翻译
sveths
Moscow City
An example for you: my hometown was occupied for 2.5 years. There was a concentration camp build. 2/3 of the housing was destroyed. Invaluable historic buildings and artifacts destroyed or stolen. After the town was liberated, it was estimated that 70-80% of the population was either killed or sent away to concentration camps. There was (still is) a psychiatric hospital nearby, 500+ patients that resided there in the time were murdered and buried in a mass grave. The village nearby that was also occupied had a population of less than a thousand people before the war, and it has 3 mass graves after. Now, take that information and apply it to thousands of villages and towns across the USSR. Also google Khatyn for to get a real good idea about the behaviour of German forces towards Soviet civilians.
莫斯科市
给你举个例子：我的家乡被占领了2.5年。有一个集中营建在那里。2/3的住房被毁。无价的历史建筑和文物被毁或被盗。城镇解放后，估计了一下，有70-80%的人口被杀害或被送去集中营。附近有（现在仍然有）一家精神病院，当时住在那里的500多名病人被杀害，埋在乱葬岗。附近同样被占领的村庄在战前的人口不到一千人，战后有三个万人坑。现在，把这些信息应用到整个苏联的数千个村庄和城镇。还可以用谷歌搜索哈廷惨案，以便真正了解德军对苏联平民的行为。
Moscow City
An example for you: my hometown was occupied for 2.5 years. There was a concentration camp build. 2/3 of the housing was destroyed. Invaluable historic buildings and artifacts destroyed or stolen. After the town was liberated, it was estimated that 70-80% of the population was either killed or sent away to concentration camps. There was (still is) a psychiatric hospital nearby, 500+ patients that resided there in the time were murdered and buried in a mass grave. The village nearby that was also occupied had a population of less than a thousand people before the war, and it has 3 mass graves after. Now, take that information and apply it to thousands of villages and towns across the USSR. Also google Khatyn for to get a real good idea about the behaviour of German forces towards Soviet civilians.
莫斯科市
给你举个例子：我的家乡被占领了2.5年。有一个集中营建在那里。2/3的住房被毁。无价的历史建筑和文物被毁或被盗。城镇解放后，估计了一下，有70-80%的人口被杀害或被送去集中营。附近有（现在仍然有）一家精神病院，当时住在那里的500多名病人被杀害，埋在乱葬岗。附近同样被占领的村庄在战前的人口不到一千人，战后有三个万人坑。现在，把这些信息应用到整个苏联的数千个村庄和城镇。还可以用谷歌搜索哈廷惨案，以便真正了解德军对苏联平民的行为。
tatasz
Germans brutality and cruelty was on same level of japanese, and on a much larger scale.
德国人的野蛮和残忍与日本人的水平相同，而且规模更大。
Germans brutality and cruelty was on same level of japanese, and on a much larger scale.
德国人的野蛮和残忍与日本人的水平相同，而且规模更大。
Pallid85
Omsk
Why was loss of life so massive for Soviets during WW2?
Nazis killed POWs and civilians, and wanted to genocide slavs...
is more infamous
Arguably, and even if it's more infamous - must it necessary lead to higher numbers?
鄂木斯克
“为什么二战期间苏联人的生命损失如此巨大？”
纳粹杀害战俘和平民，并想对斯拉夫人进行种族灭绝。
“更加臭名昭著”
不好说，而且更臭名昭著就一定会导致更多的数字吗？
Omsk
Why was loss of life so massive for Soviets during WW2?
Nazis killed POWs and civilians, and wanted to genocide slavs...
is more infamous
Arguably, and even if it's more infamous - must it necessary lead to higher numbers?
鄂木斯克
“为什么二战期间苏联人的生命损失如此巨大？”
纳粹杀害战俘和平民，并想对斯拉夫人进行种族灭绝。
“更加臭名昭著”
不好说，而且更臭名昭著就一定会导致更多的数字吗？
illiterate2read
Nazis killed ... civilians
Oh, you mean the like USA dropping atomic bombs on Japan? Oh, oops. I might have made the wrong point.
“纳粹杀害......平民”
哦，你是说像美国在日本投掷原子弹？哦，哎呀。我可能说错了。
Nazis killed ... civilians
Oh, you mean the like USA dropping atomic bombs on Japan? Oh, oops. I might have made the wrong point.
“纳粹杀害......平民”
哦，你是说像美国在日本投掷原子弹？哦，哎呀。我可能说错了。
Darrkeng
Donbass will be free!
Funny enough both A-bombs took less lives than fire bombing
顿巴斯将获得自由!
有意思的是，这两枚原子弹所造成的生命损失比燃烧弹造成的要少
Donbass will be free!
Funny enough both A-bombs took less lives than fire bombing
顿巴斯将获得自由!
有意思的是，这两枚原子弹所造成的生命损失比燃烧弹造成的要少
Good_Breakfast277
While I agree that nuclear bombs on Japan or anywhere else is insane tragedy, do you think alternatively US(and probably Soviets) invasion into Japan could have caused less life loss/destruction?
虽然我同意对日本或其他地方进行核爆是疯狂的悲剧，但你认为如果美国（可能还有苏联）入侵日本本土，会造成更少的生命损失/破坏？
While I agree that nuclear bombs on Japan or anywhere else is insane tragedy, do you think alternatively US(and probably Soviets) invasion into Japan could have caused less life loss/destruction?
虽然我同意对日本或其他地方进行核爆是疯狂的悲剧，但你认为如果美国（可能还有苏联）入侵日本本土，会造成更少的生命损失/破坏？
Darrkeng
Donbass will be free!
You wouldn't even need to land invade Japan. At that point their fleet is non existed, army in China being decimated, their cities already being fire bombed by US. They did not had ANY OTHER option but surrender, it was matter of time and they were headed towards it (ofc with conditions that they keep their Emperor and conduct own trials over their war criminals). But nooope, US needed things to be settled on their conditions and need to show the big toy to someone else
顿巴斯将获得自由!
你甚至不需要登陆入侵日本。在那个时候，他们的舰队已经不存在了，在中国的军队被消灭了，他们的城市已经被美国轰炸了。他们除了投降没有任何其他选择，这只是时间问题，他们正朝着这个方向前进（当然，条件是他们要保留他们的天皇并对他们的战犯进行自己的审判）。但是不，美国需要根据他们的条件来解决事情，并且要秀一秀自己的大玩具。
Donbass will be free!
You wouldn't even need to land invade Japan. At that point their fleet is non existed, army in China being decimated, their cities already being fire bombed by US. They did not had ANY OTHER option but surrender, it was matter of time and they were headed towards it (ofc with conditions that they keep their Emperor and conduct own trials over their war criminals). But nooope, US needed things to be settled on their conditions and need to show the big toy to someone else
顿巴斯将获得自由!
你甚至不需要登陆入侵日本。在那个时候，他们的舰队已经不存在了，在中国的军队被消灭了，他们的城市已经被美国轰炸了。他们除了投降没有任何其他选择，这只是时间问题，他们正朝着这个方向前进（当然，条件是他们要保留他们的天皇并对他们的战犯进行自己的审判）。但是不，美国需要根据他们的条件来解决事情，并且要秀一秀自己的大玩具。
Good_Breakfast277
That is not correct, even after nuclear bombs, jupanese military was against the surrender. They were on a home island and any invasion attempt would have been extremely costly.
Germans didn’t surrender until the end while attacked from all directions by the allies, but by your logic more fanatical Japanese would have not even try to defend their island.
这是不正确的，即使在核爆之后，日本军队也反对投降。他们在一个小岛上，任何入侵企图都会造成极大的损失。
德国人在盟军的四面八方攻击下直到最后才投降，但按照你的逻辑，更狂热的日本人却不会试图保卫他们的岛屿？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
That is not correct, even after nuclear bombs, jupanese military was against the surrender. They were on a home island and any invasion attempt would have been extremely costly.
Germans didn’t surrender until the end while attacked from all directions by the allies, but by your logic more fanatical Japanese would have not even try to defend their island.
这是不正确的，即使在核爆之后，日本军队也反对投降。他们在一个小岛上，任何入侵企图都会造成极大的损失。
德国人在盟军的四面八方攻击下直到最后才投降，但按照你的逻辑，更狂热的日本人却不会试图保卫他们的岛屿？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Darrkeng
Donbass will be free!
Nah, yanks intentionally overestimate Japanese resolve to make A-bombing of civilian targets more justifiable
顿巴斯将获得自由!
不，美国佬故意高估日本人的决心，以使轰炸平民目标更加合理。
Donbass will be free!
Nah, yanks intentionally overestimate Japanese resolve to make A-bombing of civilian targets more justifiable
顿巴斯将获得自由!
不，美国佬故意高估日本人的决心，以使轰炸平民目标更加合理。
Perf-26
Moscow City
Why to bomb cities with civilians but not some army base? This was a horrific war crime. That was done to make the world terrified of US. Today we will call that a terrorist strike.
莫斯科市
为什么要轰炸有平民的城市而不是一些军队基地？这是一个可怕的战争罪行。这样做是为了让世界对美国感到恐惧。在今天，我们会把这称为恐怖袭击。
Moscow City
Why to bomb cities with civilians but not some army base? This was a horrific war crime. That was done to make the world terrified of US. Today we will call that a terrorist strike.
莫斯科市
为什么要轰炸有平民的城市而不是一些军队基地？这是一个可怕的战争罪行。这样做是为了让世界对美国感到恐惧。在今天，我们会把这称为恐怖袭击。
Good_Breakfast277
Which side didn’t bomb civilian cities during wwii?
That was inhumane way to force Japanese surrender. Or would you rather prefer regular invasion by the russians and us?
哪一方在二战期间没有轰炸平民城市？
那是一张不人道的迫使日本投降的方式。还是你更喜欢俄罗斯人和美国人的定期入侵？
Which side didn’t bomb civilian cities during wwii?
That was inhumane way to force Japanese surrender. Or would you rather prefer regular invasion by the russians and us?
哪一方在二战期间没有轰炸平民城市？
那是一张不人道的迫使日本投降的方式。还是你更喜欢俄罗斯人和美国人的定期入侵？
Perf-26
Moscow City
Again. US nuked two cities, not naval or army bases. Do you really think Japanese continued to fight after nukes on military targets?
莫斯科市
还是那句话。美国核爆了两个城市，而不是海军或陆军基地。你真的认为日本人在看到对军事目标的核爆之后还会继续战斗吗？
Moscow City
Again. US nuked two cities, not naval or army bases. Do you really think Japanese continued to fight after nukes on military targets?
莫斯科市
还是那句话。美国核爆了两个城市，而不是海军或陆军基地。你真的认为日本人在看到对军事目标的核爆之后还会继续战斗吗？
Different-Purple7125
Stavropol Krai
Are you asking because you skipped school? The Finns participated in the blockade of Leningrad - 600,000 people died in Leningrad.
斯塔夫罗波尔边疆区
你逃学了吗？芬兰人参加了对列宁格勒的封锁--60万人死在列宁格勒。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Stavropol Krai
Are you asking because you skipped school? The Finns participated in the blockade of Leningrad - 600,000 people died in Leningrad.
斯塔夫罗波尔边疆区
你逃学了吗？芬兰人参加了对列宁格勒的封锁--60万人死在列宁格勒。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
I mean, to be fair, you put us between a rock and a hard place. We would have been more than happy to just sit out the whole war without border adjustments of any kind, but Stalin's invasion meant we could 1. Just accept getting steamrolled like a bunch of little bitches or 2. Accept Germany's offer to help.
The Finns participated in the blockade of Leningrad
The extent of our participation there is subject to debate. Remember, Suomi has never been a fascist country. Local fascists attempted a coup in 1932 (Mäntsälä rebellion), but it was a massive failure.
芬兰
公平地说，你们让我们处于两难境地。我们本来很乐意在整个战争中不做任何边界调整，但斯大林对我们的入侵意味着我们只能：
1. 接受像一群小母狗一样被苏联碾压的事实，或者2. 接受德国的援助提议。
“芬兰人参与了对列宁格勒的封锁”
我们在那里的参与程度有待商榷。请记住，芬兰从来就不是一个法西斯主义国家。当地的法西斯分子在1932年曾试图发动政变（曼采莱叛乱），但这是一次大规模的失败。
OP
Suomi
I mean, to be fair, you put us between a rock and a hard place. We would have been more than happy to just sit out the whole war without border adjustments of any kind, but Stalin's invasion meant we could 1. Just accept getting steamrolled like a bunch of little bitches or 2. Accept Germany's offer to help.
The Finns participated in the blockade of Leningrad
The extent of our participation there is subject to debate. Remember, Suomi has never been a fascist country. Local fascists attempted a coup in 1932 (Mäntsälä rebellion), but it was a massive failure.
芬兰
公平地说，你们让我们处于两难境地。我们本来很乐意在整个战争中不做任何边界调整，但斯大林对我们的入侵意味着我们只能：
1. 接受像一群小母狗一样被苏联碾压的事实，或者2. 接受德国的援助提议。
“芬兰人参与了对列宁格勒的封锁”
我们在那里的参与程度有待商榷。请记住，芬兰从来就不是一个法西斯主义国家。当地的法西斯分子在1932年曾试图发动政变（曼采莱叛乱），但这是一次大规模的失败。
whoAreYouToJudgeME
We would have been more than happy to just sit out the whole war without border adjustments of any kind
Finland wanted to return territories lost in Winter war and grab some more such as Karelia. It's not like Germans threatened you. You were gang ho on your own.
“我们本来很乐意在整个战争中不做任何边界调整”
芬兰想夺回在冬季战争中失去的领土，并攫取更多的领土，如卡累利阿。这不像是德国人在威胁你们。你们是自己主动参加的。
We would have been more than happy to just sit out the whole war without border adjustments of any kind
Finland wanted to return territories lost in Winter war and grab some more such as Karelia. It's not like Germans threatened you. You were gang ho on your own.
“我们本来很乐意在整个战争中不做任何边界调整”
芬兰想夺回在冬季战争中失去的领土，并攫取更多的领土，如卡累利阿。这不像是德国人在威胁你们。你们是自己主动参加的。
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
Finland wanted to return territories
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
and grab some more
I admit that this was a mistake. But then again, Soviets had proven that they were not interested in diplomatic solutions, so it makes sense that the Finnish military would try to secure as many bargaining chips as possible since German defeat was imminent. Also I'd imagine that many Finnish combatants were full of hatred towards Russians because of how unfairly we had been treated, which can be easily be weaponised by nationalist ideologues who want to push our borders further.
芬兰
“芬兰希望夺回领土”
这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。
“并攫取更多的领土”
我承认这是个错误。但话说回来，苏联人已经证明他们对外交解决方案不感兴趣，所以芬兰军方想尽量争取尽可能多的谈判筹码是有道理的，因为德国的失败已近在咫尺。另外，我可以想象，许多芬兰战斗人员对俄国人充满了仇恨，因为我们受到的对待太不公平，这很容易被那些想进一步推进我们边界的民族主义思想家们当作武器。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
OP
Suomi
Finland wanted to return territories
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
and grab some more
I admit that this was a mistake. But then again, Soviets had proven that they were not interested in diplomatic solutions, so it makes sense that the Finnish military would try to secure as many bargaining chips as possible since German defeat was imminent. Also I'd imagine that many Finnish combatants were full of hatred towards Russians because of how unfairly we had been treated, which can be easily be weaponised by nationalist ideologues who want to push our borders further.
芬兰
“芬兰希望夺回领土”
这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。
“并攫取更多的领土”
我承认这是个错误。但话说回来，苏联人已经证明他们对外交解决方案不感兴趣，所以芬兰军方想尽量争取尽可能多的谈判筹码是有道理的，因为德国的失败已近在咫尺。另外，我可以想象，许多芬兰战斗人员对俄国人充满了仇恨，因为我们受到的对待太不公平，这很容易被那些想进一步推进我们边界的民族主义思想家们当作武器。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
whoAreYouToJudgeME
weaponised by nationalist ideologues
So nationalism is good when you do it.
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
Every European country can justify their irredentism but fails to see how Russia wants to do the same.
“被民族主义思想家们当作武器。”
所以民族主义在你做的时候就是好的。
“这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。”
每个欧洲国家都可以为他们的种族隔离主义辩护，但却看不到俄罗斯想做同样的事情。
weaponised by nationalist ideologues
So nationalism is good when you do it.
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
Every European country can justify their irredentism but fails to see how Russia wants to do the same.
“被民族主义思想家们当作武器。”
所以民族主义在你做的时候就是好的。
“这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。”
每个欧洲国家都可以为他们的种族隔离主义辩护，但却看不到俄罗斯想做同样的事情。
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
So nationalism is good when you do it
I never said that. I said that Soviet aggression created a fertile ground for ideas like Greater Finland, which had gotten incredibly unpopular, especially after the attempted fascist coup in 1932. So the greatest gift Soviets could have given to Finnish nationalists was attacking us. If you had never attacked us, maybe you would have defeated Germany sooner and with fewer casualties. Hell, maybe we would have even helped you fight against Germany, if they attempted to invade us like they invaded Norway.
“所以民族主义在你做的时候就是好的。”
我从来没有这么说过。我说的是，苏联的侵略行径为“大芬兰”这样的想法创造了肥沃的土壤，大芬兰理想本来已经变得非常不受欢迎，特别是在1932年法西斯政变未遂之后。因此，苏联人能给芬兰民族主义者的最大礼物就是攻击我们。如果你们没有攻击我们，也许你们会更快地击败德国，而且伤亡更少。该死的，也许我们甚至会帮助你们对抗德国，如果他们（德国）试图像入侵挪威那样入侵我们。
OP
Suomi
So nationalism is good when you do it
I never said that. I said that Soviet aggression created a fertile ground for ideas like Greater Finland, which had gotten incredibly unpopular, especially after the attempted fascist coup in 1932. So the greatest gift Soviets could have given to Finnish nationalists was attacking us. If you had never attacked us, maybe you would have defeated Germany sooner and with fewer casualties. Hell, maybe we would have even helped you fight against Germany, if they attempted to invade us like they invaded Norway.
“所以民族主义在你做的时候就是好的。”
我从来没有这么说过。我说的是，苏联的侵略行径为“大芬兰”这样的想法创造了肥沃的土壤，大芬兰理想本来已经变得非常不受欢迎，特别是在1932年法西斯政变未遂之后。因此，苏联人能给芬兰民族主义者的最大礼物就是攻击我们。如果你们没有攻击我们，也许你们会更快地击败德国，而且伤亡更少。该死的，也许我们甚至会帮助你们对抗德国，如果他们（德国）试图像入侵挪威那样入侵我们。
Betadzen
I am not that guy, but you ask the questions about ww2 losses, get a not pretty, but honest answer and then try to justify the actions of your country...why?
I mean, why do you even try to prove anything? This will likely change nothing. I mean, of course you follow sub about the current war and perhaps want to leave a subtle message, but... you get the idea why you can't be not, heard, but listened here. Spread your agenda on a more fertile soil, dood.
我不是你回复的那个人，但你问了一个关于二战损失的问题，得到了一个不漂亮但诚实的答案，然后你试图为你的国家的行为辩护......为什么？
我的意思是，你为什么甚至会想要去试图证明点什么？这什么都不会改变。我的意思是，你肯定在关注当前的战争，也许想留下一个微妙的信息，但是......你明白为什么你在这里不会听到你想要的东西。在一个更喜欢这种言论的地方播你的议程吧，伙计。
I am not that guy, but you ask the questions about ww2 losses, get a not pretty, but honest answer and then try to justify the actions of your country...why?
I mean, why do you even try to prove anything? This will likely change nothing. I mean, of course you follow sub about the current war and perhaps want to leave a subtle message, but... you get the idea why you can't be not, heard, but listened here. Spread your agenda on a more fertile soil, dood.
我不是你回复的那个人，但你问了一个关于二战损失的问题，得到了一个不漂亮但诚实的答案，然后你试图为你的国家的行为辩护......为什么？
我的意思是，你为什么甚至会想要去试图证明点什么？这什么都不会改变。我的意思是，你肯定在关注当前的战争，也许想留下一个微妙的信息，但是......你明白为什么你在这里不会听到你想要的东西。在一个更喜欢这种言论的地方播你的议程吧，伙计。
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
I have no agenda, I am simply interested in the truth, and the truth is that Finland is by far the most innocent country to have gotten pulled into WW2. It never would have happened without unprovoked Soviet aggression. So I can't just be silent when people start bashing Finland because my flair says Suomi.
芬兰
我没有任何目的，我只是对事实感兴趣，而事实是，到目前为止，芬兰是被拉入二战的最无辜的国家。如果没有苏联的无端侵略，就不会发生这种情况。因此，当人们开始抨击芬兰时，作为芬兰人我不能保持沉默。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
OP
Suomi
I have no agenda, I am simply interested in the truth, and the truth is that Finland is by far the most innocent country to have gotten pulled into WW2. It never would have happened without unprovoked Soviet aggression. So I can't just be silent when people start bashing Finland because my flair says Suomi.
芬兰
我没有任何目的，我只是对事实感兴趣，而事实是，到目前为止，芬兰是被拉入二战的最无辜的国家。如果没有苏联的无端侵略，就不会发生这种情况。因此，当人们开始抨击芬兰时，作为芬兰人我不能保持沉默。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Betadzen
wouldn't have
"Абы да кабы, у меня на носу росли грибы!" - one of our sayings. It means that "would" or "would not" is not relevant to the case. It is a wishful thinking. Like "if not for US, USSR would still stand strong!". Sounds childish.
Finland participated.
It has chosen it's side.
It has commited crimes.
It has provided a lot of the casualties.
Period.
Justifying this is sort of similar to justifying a home owner coming to his neighbour with a gun with a group of bandits raiding his house because he was unjust to him. That is, of course, understandable, but the court would just put him in jail with the rest of the bandits.
"Абы да кабы, у меня на носу росли грибы！"
这是我们的一句俗语。意思是"会"或"不会"与我们要讨论的事情无关。这是一种一厢情愿的想法。就像"如果没有美国，苏联仍然会很强大！"一样。听起来很幼稚。
芬兰参与了。
它选择了自己的立场。
它犯了罪。
它造成了大量的伤亡。
句号。
为这个辩解有点类似于为一个带着枪和一群强盗突袭了他的邻居的房主辩解，因为他的邻居之前和他有过矛盾。这当然是可以理解的，但法院只会把他和其他的强盗一起关进监狱。
wouldn't have
"Абы да кабы, у меня на носу росли грибы!" - one of our sayings. It means that "would" or "would not" is not relevant to the case. It is a wishful thinking. Like "if not for US, USSR would still stand strong!". Sounds childish.
Finland participated.
It has chosen it's side.
It has commited crimes.
It has provided a lot of the casualties.
Period.
Justifying this is sort of similar to justifying a home owner coming to his neighbour with a gun with a group of bandits raiding his house because he was unjust to him. That is, of course, understandable, but the court would just put him in jail with the rest of the bandits.
"Абы да кабы, у меня на носу росли грибы！"
这是我们的一句俗语。意思是"会"或"不会"与我们要讨论的事情无关。这是一种一厢情愿的想法。就像"如果没有美国，苏联仍然会很强大！"一样。听起来很幼稚。
芬兰参与了。
它选择了自己的立场。
它犯了罪。
它造成了大量的伤亡。
句号。
为这个辩解有点类似于为一个带着枪和一群强盗突袭了他的邻居的房主辩解，因为他的邻居之前和他有过矛盾。这当然是可以理解的，但法院只会把他和其他的强盗一起关进监狱。
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
Soviets first committed crimes towards us, and then we responded in a manner befitting that. So that makes us even.
芬兰
苏联人先对我们犯下了罪行，然后我们以与此相称的方式作出了回应。所以我们扯平了。
OP
Suomi
Soviets first committed crimes towards us, and then we responded in a manner befitting that. So that makes us even.
芬兰
苏联人先对我们犯下了罪行，然后我们以与此相称的方式作出了回应。所以我们扯平了。
Global_Helicopter_85
An innocent country with its own innocent death camps for Russians. So cute
一个无辜的国家，有着无辜的俄罗斯人死亡集中营。乐
An innocent country with its own innocent death camps for Russians. So cute
一个无辜的国家，有着无辜的俄罗斯人死亡集中营。乐
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
They were not death camps. Stop believing NKVD propaganda which has trickled down to the minds of modern Russians.
芬兰
他们不是死亡集中营。不要再相信内务人民委员会的宣传了，这些宣传已经渗透到现代俄罗斯人的脑中。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
OP
Suomi
They were not death camps. Stop believing NKVD propaganda which has trickled down to the minds of modern Russians.
芬兰
他们不是死亡集中营。不要再相信内务人民委员会的宣传了，这些宣传已经渗透到现代俄罗斯人的脑中。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
SenseCertain8006
Imagine if Russians ware nicer to there neighbors, Then Russia might have had there own NATO, instead of being surrounded by NATO.
想象一下，如果俄罗斯人对自己的邻国好一点，那么俄罗斯可能拥有自己的北约，而不是被北约包围。
Imagine if Russians ware nicer to there neighbors, Then Russia might have had there own NATO, instead of being surrounded by NATO.
想象一下，如果俄罗斯人对自己的邻国好一点，那么俄罗斯可能拥有自己的北约，而不是被北约包围。
whoAreYouToJudgeME
Russia has its own NATO. Besides, NATO expanded when Russia was not a threat and played nice with its neighbors.
俄罗斯有自己的北约。此外，北约在俄罗斯不构成威胁并与邻国友好相处的情况下扩大了规模。
Russia has its own NATO. Besides, NATO expanded when Russia was not a threat and played nice with its neighbors.
俄罗斯有自己的北约。此外，北约在俄罗斯不构成威胁并与邻国友好相处的情况下扩大了规模。
Ridonis256
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
justified or not, it wasnt "Finland was threatened by Soviets so they didnt have choice" it was "Finland volunturely join nazi in fight against USSR and blokading city causing death of 600 000 civilians." If Finland wanted to sit this one out they were free to do it, but they decided that they are smarter then anyone. I guess something never change.
“这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。”
不管合理与否，这都不是“芬兰受到苏联人的威胁，所以他们别无选择”，而是“芬兰自愿加入纳粹攻击苏联和轰炸城市，导致 60 万平民死亡”。如果芬兰当时想置身事外，完全可以，但他们可能认为自己比任何人都聪明。我想有些事情永远不会改变。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
justified or not, it wasnt "Finland was threatened by Soviets so they didnt have choice" it was "Finland volunturely join nazi in fight against USSR and blokading city causing death of 600 000 civilians." If Finland wanted to sit this one out they were free to do it, but they decided that they are smarter then anyone. I guess something never change.
“这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。”
不管合理与否，这都不是“芬兰受到苏联人的威胁，所以他们别无选择”，而是“芬兰自愿加入纳粹攻击苏联和轰炸城市，导致 60 万平民死亡”。如果芬兰当时想置身事外，完全可以，但他们可能认为自己比任何人都聪明。我想有些事情永远不会改变。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
If Finland wanted to sit this one out they were free to do it
Nope. We wanted to, but then NKVD staged the Shelling of Mainila and Soviet unx used it as a casus belli to invade us. If we get fucked like that without provoking anyone and don't respond, why wouldn't Soviets just chip away the rest of Finland bit by bit? It's common knowledge that you guys don't respect weakness, and if you could attack us once unprovoked, who's to say you won't do it again?
“如果芬兰当时想置身事外，完全可以”
没有。我们想这样做，但后来内务人民委员会自导自演了对麦尼拉的炮击，苏联以此为借口入侵我们。如果我们在没有激怒任何人的情况下就这样被人操，而且不做出回应，苏联人会不一点一点地蚕食芬兰其他地区吗？众所周知，你们不尊重弱者，能无缘无故攻击我们一次，谁能说不会有下一次？
OP
Suomi
If Finland wanted to sit this one out they were free to do it
Nope. We wanted to, but then NKVD staged the Shelling of Mainila and Soviet unx used it as a casus belli to invade us. If we get fucked like that without provoking anyone and don't respond, why wouldn't Soviets just chip away the rest of Finland bit by bit? It's common knowledge that you guys don't respect weakness, and if you could attack us once unprovoked, who's to say you won't do it again?
“如果芬兰当时想置身事外，完全可以”
没有。我们想这样做，但后来内务人民委员会自导自演了对麦尼拉的炮击，苏联以此为借口入侵我们。如果我们在没有激怒任何人的情况下就这样被人操，而且不做出回应，苏联人会不一点一点地蚕食芬兰其他地区吗？众所周知，你们不尊重弱者，能无缘无故攻击我们一次，谁能说不会有下一次？
Brutal1ty512
Moscow City
There is no non-classified documents which says that Shelling of Mainila was staged by USSR. For all I care it’s was Finland attempt to create casus belli. Also, it was finns who constantly shooting at USSR border guards and made several attempts to cross into our territory.
莫斯科市
没有任何非机密文件说麦尼拉的炮击是由苏联策划的。就我而言，这是芬兰试图制造宣战理由。此外，是芬兰人不断向苏联边防军开枪，并多次试图进入我国领土。
Moscow City
There is no non-classified documents which says that Shelling of Mainila was staged by USSR. For all I care it’s was Finland attempt to create casus belli. Also, it was finns who constantly shooting at USSR border guards and made several attempts to cross into our territory.
莫斯科市
没有任何非机密文件说麦尼拉的炮击是由苏联策划的。就我而言，这是芬兰试图制造宣战理由。此外，是芬兰人不断向苏联边防军开枪，并多次试图进入我国领土。
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
For all I care it’s was Finland attempt to create casus belli
This kind of dishonesty and unwillingness to acknowledge let alone learn from past mistakes is the reason why many countries don't trust Russia. No rational person actually thinks that tiny Finland was frothing at the mouth to go to war with colossal Soviet unx.
“就我而言，这是芬兰试图制造宣战理由。”
这种不诚实和不肯承认，更不用说从过去的错误中吸取教训，是许多国家不信任俄罗斯的原因。没有一个理性的人会真的认为小小的芬兰脑子抽了非要制造理由和庞大的苏联开战。
OP
Suomi
For all I care it’s was Finland attempt to create casus belli
This kind of dishonesty and unwillingness to acknowledge let alone learn from past mistakes is the reason why many countries don't trust Russia. No rational person actually thinks that tiny Finland was frothing at the mouth to go to war with colossal Soviet unx.
“就我而言，这是芬兰试图制造宣战理由。”
这种不诚实和不肯承认，更不用说从过去的错误中吸取教训，是许多国家不信任俄罗斯的原因。没有一个理性的人会真的认为小小的芬兰脑子抽了非要制造理由和庞大的苏联开战。
Brutal1ty512
Moscow City
Then show concrete proof that it was NKVD provocation. All circumstantial evidence point to Finland.
莫斯科城
那拿出证明这是内务人民委员会挑衅的具体证据啊。所有的间接证据都指向芬兰。
Moscow City
Then show concrete proof that it was NKVD provocation. All circumstantial evidence point to Finland.
莫斯科城
那拿出证明这是内务人民委员会挑衅的具体证据啊。所有的间接证据都指向芬兰。
pinkskyh
OP
Suomi
All circumstantial evidence point to Finland.
Sounds like a crock of shit. NKVD even carried out and then lied about its involvement in the Katyn massacre, so you having such unfounded faith in their bullshit suggests that you are simply another nationalist ideologue who is not interested in the truth. Ask yourself honestly, who benefited most this shelling? Militarily weak and barely populated Finland, or militarily strong and populous Soviet unx?
“所有间接证据都指向芬兰。”
听起来像是一派胡言。内务人民委员会后来甚至在实施了卡廷森林大屠杀之后谎称跟自己没关系，所以你毫无根据却如此坚定地相信他们的废话表明你只是另一个对真相不感兴趣的民族主义理论家。你扪心自问，这次炮击事件谁受益最大？是军事羸弱且人口稀少的芬兰，还是军事强大且人口众多的苏联？
OP
Suomi
All circumstantial evidence point to Finland.
Sounds like a crock of shit. NKVD even carried out and then lied about its involvement in the Katyn massacre, so you having such unfounded faith in their bullshit suggests that you are simply another nationalist ideologue who is not interested in the truth. Ask yourself honestly, who benefited most this shelling? Militarily weak and barely populated Finland, or militarily strong and populous Soviet unx?
“所有间接证据都指向芬兰。”
听起来像是一派胡言。内务人民委员会后来甚至在实施了卡廷森林大屠杀之后谎称跟自己没关系，所以你毫无根据却如此坚定地相信他们的废话表明你只是另一个对真相不感兴趣的民族主义理论家。你扪心自问，这次炮击事件谁受益最大？是军事羸弱且人口稀少的芬兰，还是军事强大且人口众多的苏联？
MinuteMouse5803
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
In fact the WWII started before 1939... Stalin attacked Finland in order to push the borders away from St. Petersburg so that artillery shells would not reach the city, because we knew that the war with Hitler was gonna start.
You know that World War I spilled over into World War II.... there was always tension...
And nowadays the history can repeat itself((.. you, guys, go to NATO, you will have weapon that reaches Saint-Petersbourg...
“这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。”
事实上，二战在1939年之前就开始...斯大林进攻芬兰是为了把边界从圣彼得堡推开，这样炮弹就不会到达该城市，因为我们知道与希特勒的战争要开始了。
你知道的，第一次世界大战蔓延到第二次世界大战....一直存在着紧张局势......
而如今，历史可能会重演（......你们这些家伙，去加入北约，你们会有武器可以到达圣彼得堡......）。
Totally justified, because we lost them in an unprovoked war of aggression waged by the Soviets.
In fact the WWII started before 1939... Stalin attacked Finland in order to push the borders away from St. Petersburg so that artillery shells would not reach the city, because we knew that the war with Hitler was gonna start.
You know that World War I spilled over into World War II.... there was always tension...
And nowadays the history can repeat itself((.. you, guys, go to NATO, you will have weapon that reaches Saint-Petersbourg...
“这非常合理，因为这是我们在苏联无端发动的侵略战争中丢失的。”
事实上，二战在1939年之前就开始...斯大林进攻芬兰是为了把边界从圣彼得堡推开，这样炮弹就不会到达该城市，因为我们知道与希特勒的战争要开始了。
你知道的，第一次世界大战蔓延到第二次世界大战....一直存在着紧张局势......
而如今，历史可能会重演（......你们这些家伙，去加入北约，你们会有武器可以到达圣彼得堡......）。
AkhmatSilaDon
you put us between a rock and a hard place
Rock - temporarily lend a small part of your land to the country that literally gave you your independence a few decades earlier
Hard place - get in bed with ethnonationalists who will exterminate your entire people at the first convenient moment because you're too proud to cede land for a few years in the interest of literally saving humanity
“你们让我们进退两难”
进——暂时把你的一小部分土地借给这个几十年前让你独立的国家
退——选择和民族主义者沆瀣一气，他们会在方便的时候第一时间消灭你的所有人
两难，吗？——你们过于骄傲，不能为了拯救人类而放弃一点土地几年
you put us between a rock and a hard place
Rock - temporarily lend a small part of your land to the country that literally gave you your independence a few decades earlier
Hard place - get in bed with ethnonationalists who will exterminate your entire people at the first convenient moment because you're too proud to cede land for a few years in the interest of literally saving humanity
“你们让我们进退两难”
进——暂时把你的一小部分土地借给这个几十年前让你独立的国家
退——选择和民族主义者沆瀣一气，他们会在方便的时候第一时间消灭你的所有人
两难，吗？——你们过于骄傲，不能为了拯救人类而放弃一点土地几年
CyneP_KJleu
Let's start with the losses among the military. Soviet military doctrine did not provide for defensive tactics at that time. In the case of war, the Soviet forces had to operate on the territory of the alleged enemy. In the case of the Second World War, the lack of training of soldiers and officers, including senior officers, was a huge advantage for the Wehrmacht. This is due to the enormous losses (killed / wounded / prisoners) in personnel during the first months of the war. Also at that moment there was a rearmament of the Red Army. The soldiers were not so trained to interact with new weapons, and the command was not so trained in the tactics of their use. Let's add the lack of well qualified senior officers after the purges in the late 30s and the conservatism of the old generals, as well as the lack of communication (in the Soviet army, not all planes and tanks were equipped with walkie-talkies until the end of the war, in the infantry it was the same).
In the case of the civilian population, the most densely populated areas were captured and finally liberated only by the autumn of 1944. And to deny the war crimes of the Third Reich and their allies on the territory of the USSR is stupid. In fact, there was a genocide of the entire Soviet people. People were burned by villages, but cities were demolished by artillery and bombing.
我们先说说军队中的损失。当时苏联军事学说没有规定防御战术。在战争的情况下，苏军必须在所谓的敌人的领土上行动。在第二次世界大战的情况下，士兵和军官，包括高级军官缺乏训练，这是德国国防军的一个巨大优势。这也是战争头几个月人员的巨大损失（死亡/受伤/被俘）的原因。另外在那个时候，红军也在重新武装。士兵们没有接受过与新武器互动的训练，而指挥部也没有接受过使用新武器的战术训练。再加上30年代末大清洗后缺乏合格的高级军官和老将军们的保守主义，以及缺乏沟通（在苏军中，直到战争结束也不是所有的飞机和坦克都配备了对讲机，在步兵中也是如此）。
就平民而言，人口最稠密的地区被占领，到1944年秋天才最终解放。而否认第三帝国及其盟友在苏联境内的战争罪行是愚蠢的。事实上，存在着对整个苏联人民的种族灭绝。村庄被焚毁，城市被大炮和轰炸摧毁。
Let's start with the losses among the military. Soviet military doctrine did not provide for defensive tactics at that time. In the case of war, the Soviet forces had to operate on the territory of the alleged enemy. In the case of the Second World War, the lack of training of soldiers and officers, including senior officers, was a huge advantage for the Wehrmacht. This is due to the enormous losses (killed / wounded / prisoners) in personnel during the first months of the war. Also at that moment there was a rearmament of the Red Army. The soldiers were not so trained to interact with new weapons, and the command was not so trained in the tactics of their use. Let's add the lack of well qualified senior officers after the purges in the late 30s and the conservatism of the old generals, as well as the lack of communication (in the Soviet army, not all planes and tanks were equipped with walkie-talkies until the end of the war, in the infantry it was the same).
In the case of the civilian population, the most densely populated areas were captured and finally liberated only by the autumn of 1944. And to deny the war crimes of the Third Reich and their allies on the territory of the USSR is stupid. In fact, there was a genocide of the entire Soviet people. People were burned by villages, but cities were demolished by artillery and bombing.
我们先说说军队中的损失。当时苏联军事学说没有规定防御战术。在战争的情况下，苏军必须在所谓的敌人的领土上行动。在第二次世界大战的情况下，士兵和军官，包括高级军官缺乏训练，这是德国国防军的一个巨大优势。这也是战争头几个月人员的巨大损失（死亡/受伤/被俘）的原因。另外在那个时候，红军也在重新武装。士兵们没有接受过与新武器互动的训练，而指挥部也没有接受过使用新武器的战术训练。再加上30年代末大清洗后缺乏合格的高级军官和老将军们的保守主义，以及缺乏沟通（在苏军中，直到战争结束也不是所有的飞机和坦克都配备了对讲机，在步兵中也是如此）。
就平民而言，人口最稠密的地区被占领，到1944年秋天才最终解放。而否认第三帝国及其盟友在苏联境内的战争罪行是愚蠢的。事实上，存在着对整个苏联人民的种族灭绝。村庄被焚毁，城市被大炮和轰炸摧毁。
CyneP_KJleu
Unlike other European countries, for example France, the Soviet people did not bow their heads to the invaders and fought bravely until the last day of the war. In fact, the Red army traveled from the western borders of the USSR to Moscow and Leningrad and Volga River, and then back liberating soviet territories, and then to Berlin, liberating the countries of East Europe. And in the occupied territories, the partisan movement was much more active comparing with the same organisations in Europe
与法国等其他欧洲国家不同，苏联人民没有向侵略者低头，勇敢地战斗到战争的最后一天。事实上，红军从苏联西部边界前往莫斯科、列宁格勒和伏尔加河，然后返回解放苏联领土，然后到达柏林，解放东欧国家。而在被占领土上，苏联的游击队运动与欧洲的相同组织相比也要活跃得多。
Unlike other European countries, for example France, the Soviet people did not bow their heads to the invaders and fought bravely until the last day of the war. In fact, the Red army traveled from the western borders of the USSR to Moscow and Leningrad and Volga River, and then back liberating soviet territories, and then to Berlin, liberating the countries of East Europe. And in the occupied territories, the partisan movement was much more active comparing with the same organisations in Europe
与法国等其他欧洲国家不同，苏联人民没有向侵略者低头，勇敢地战斗到战争的最后一天。事实上，红军从苏联西部边界前往莫斯科、列宁格勒和伏尔加河，然后返回解放苏联领土，然后到达柏林，解放东欧国家。而在被占领土上，苏联的游击队运动与欧洲的相同组织相比也要活跃得多。
Cosmo_Nerpa
Saint Petersburg
Irrevocable military losses of the USSR amount to 11,444,100 people, of which military personnel died - 8,668,400 people (6,818,300 soldiers died in battles, hospitals and other incidents, and 1,850,100 people did not return from captivity). The irretrievable losses of the Wehrmacht, SS troops and other military units of the Third Reich, operating on the Soviet-German front, amounted to 7,181,100 people.
The high losses of the USSR are due to the policy of genocide in the Soviet territories occupied by the Third Reich.
Losses of the civilian population in the occupation zone - 13,684,700 people (of which: 7,420,400 were deliberately exterminated, 2,164,300 died in forced labor in Germany, 4,100,000 died from starvation, illness and lack of medical care.
圣彼得堡
苏联不可挽回的军事损失达1144.41万人，其中军事人员死亡--866.84万人（681.83万士兵在战斗、医院和其他事件中死亡，185.01万人被俘后没有返回）。在苏德前线与第三帝国的国防军、党卫军部队和其他军事单位作战的无法挽回的损失达718.11万人。
苏联的高额损失是由于在第三帝国占领的苏联领土上实行了种族灭绝政策。
占领区平民的损失 - 13,684,700人。其中7,420,400人被蓄意消灭，2,164,300人在德国被强迫劳动而死亡，4,100,000人死于饥饿、疾病和缺乏医疗护理。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Saint Petersburg
Irrevocable military losses of the USSR amount to 11,444,100 people, of which military personnel died - 8,668,400 people (6,818,300 soldiers died in battles, hospitals and other incidents, and 1,850,100 people did not return from captivity). The irretrievable losses of the Wehrmacht, SS troops and other military units of the Third Reich, operating on the Soviet-German front, amounted to 7,181,100 people.
The high losses of the USSR are due to the policy of genocide in the Soviet territories occupied by the Third Reich.
Losses of the civilian population in the occupation zone - 13,684,700 people (of which: 7,420,400 were deliberately exterminated, 2,164,300 died in forced labor in Germany, 4,100,000 died from starvation, illness and lack of medical care.
圣彼得堡
苏联不可挽回的军事损失达1144.41万人，其中军事人员死亡--866.84万人（681.83万士兵在战斗、医院和其他事件中死亡，185.01万人被俘后没有返回）。在苏德前线与第三帝国的国防军、党卫军部队和其他军事单位作战的无法挽回的损失达718.11万人。
苏联的高额损失是由于在第三帝国占领的苏联领土上实行了种族灭绝政策。
占领区平民的损失 - 13,684,700人。其中7,420,400人被蓄意消灭，2,164,300人在德国被强迫劳动而死亡，4,100,000人死于饥饿、疾病和缺乏医疗护理。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
illiterate2read
Because most of Europe went with the spread of Nazism because it pretty much worked and was fine for most of the West, including how USA companies like Ford and Chase bank worked with the Nazis. The Russians were the only ones to really resist en mass. Much like the current situation in Ukraine, it works for most people in the West.
And the only reason that the USA jumped in was when they realized the the Red Army was going to win and they didn't want the USSR claiming most, if not all, of Europe as they liberated it from the Nazis.
因为欧洲大部分地区都跟着纳粹主义的传播走，因为它对大多数西方国家来说非常有效并且很好，包括美国的福特和大通银行等公司都在与纳粹合作。俄罗斯人是唯一真正集体抵抗的人。就像目前乌克兰的情况一样，它对西方大多数人都是有好处的。
而美国插手的唯一原因是，他们意识到红军将取得胜利，而且他们不希望苏联在从纳粹手中解放欧洲时，夺走大部分（如果不是全部）欧洲。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Because most of Europe went with the spread of Nazism because it pretty much worked and was fine for most of the West, including how USA companies like Ford and Chase bank worked with the Nazis. The Russians were the only ones to really resist en mass. Much like the current situation in Ukraine, it works for most people in the West.
And the only reason that the USA jumped in was when they realized the the Red Army was going to win and they didn't want the USSR claiming most, if not all, of Europe as they liberated it from the Nazis.
因为欧洲大部分地区都跟着纳粹主义的传播走，因为它对大多数西方国家来说非常有效并且很好，包括美国的福特和大通银行等公司都在与纳粹合作。俄罗斯人是唯一真正集体抵抗的人。就像目前乌克兰的情况一样，它对西方大多数人都是有好处的。
而美国插手的唯一原因是，他们意识到红军将取得胜利，而且他们不希望苏联在从纳粹手中解放欧洲时，夺走大部分（如果不是全部）欧洲。
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
numba1cyberwarrior
The USSR invaded Poland with the Nazis, held joint parades, gave Nazis critical war material, there was coordination between the Gestapo and the NKVD, and Murmansk was given to Nazi submarines as a base to attack British shipping.
This is not collaboration with Nazis?
苏联与纳粹一起入侵波兰，举行联合阅兵，向纳粹提供重要的战争物资，盖世太保和内务人民委员部之间互相协调，摩尔曼斯克被提供给纳粹潜艇作为攻击英国船只的基地。
这不是勾结纳粹？
The USSR invaded Poland with the Nazis, held joint parades, gave Nazis critical war material, there was coordination between the Gestapo and the NKVD, and Murmansk was given to Nazi submarines as a base to attack British shipping.
This is not collaboration with Nazis?
苏联与纳粹一起入侵波兰，举行联合阅兵，向纳粹提供重要的战争物资，盖世太保和内务人民委员部之间互相协调，摩尔曼斯克被提供给纳粹潜艇作为攻击英国船只的基地。
这不是勾结纳粹？
Good_Breakfast277
How does liberating and claiming for yourself go together? I though if you liberate somebody, you return their freedom. If you liberate and claim, isn’t it is just another occupation?
解放和宣称解放了就是自己的是如何结合在一起的？我以为解放是如果你解放了某人，你就归还了他们的自由。如果你解放了又声称属于你，那不就是另一种占领吗？
How does liberating and claiming for yourself go together? I though if you liberate somebody, you return their freedom. If you liberate and claim, isn’t it is just another occupation?
解放和宣称解放了就是自己的是如何结合在一起的？我以为解放是如果你解放了某人，你就归还了他们的自由。如果你解放了又声称属于你，那不就是另一种占领吗？
B_o_r_j_o_m_y
Russia
The liberator has the right to determine the degree of freedom himself. Only an idiot would be so naive as to simply give away what hundreds of thousands and millions of lives have been paid for.
俄罗斯
解放者有权自行决定自由的程度。只有白痴才会天真到说出别人付出成千上万生命的代价就为了给你自由。
Russia
The liberator has the right to determine the degree of freedom himself. Only an idiot would be so naive as to simply give away what hundreds of thousands and millions of lives have been paid for.
俄罗斯
解放者有权自行决定自由的程度。只有白痴才会天真到说出别人付出成千上万生命的代价就为了给你自由。
Good_Breakfast277
So what is the difference between occupant and liberator in this case?
那么在这种情况下，占领者和解放者之间有什么区别呢？
So what is the difference between occupant and liberator in this case?
那么在这种情况下，占领者和解放者之间有什么区别呢？
ZhiroslavDrochila
Default City
Under communists you are red. Under nazis you are dead. That's the difference.
在党领导下，你是红色的。在纳粹统治下，你是死人。这就是区别。
Default City
Under communists you are red. Under nazis you are dead. That's the difference.
在党领导下，你是红色的。在纳粹统治下，你是死人。这就是区别。
turnermichael1009
the state policy of genocide of the peoples of the USSR by the Euro-Nazis.
The mass targeted killing of Soviet prisoners of war has the same reason.
The Soviet troops, knowing about the genocide taking place in the occupied territories, suffered heavy losses in sometimes completely unprepared offensive operations to save civilians.
欧洲纳粹对苏联人民的种族灭绝的国家政策。
对苏联战俘的大规模定点清除也是一个原因。
苏联军队知道在被占领土上发生的种族灭绝，为了拯救平民，在有时完全没有准备的进攻行动中损失惨重。
the state policy of genocide of the peoples of the USSR by the Euro-Nazis.
The mass targeted killing of Soviet prisoners of war has the same reason.
The Soviet troops, knowing about the genocide taking place in the occupied territories, suffered heavy losses in sometimes completely unprepared offensive operations to save civilians.
欧洲纳粹对苏联人民的种族灭绝的国家政策。
对苏联战俘的大规模定点清除也是一个原因。
苏联军队知道在被占领土上发生的种族灭绝，为了拯救平民，在有时完全没有准备的进攻行动中损失惨重。
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