亚裔社区网友:你们还想留在西方吗?(一)
2023-02-10 fry470 13194
正文翻译

My parents raised me to believe the West was the best and I was one of the lucky few to make it here. They said I'll appreciate being a native English speaker who makes a lot of money and buy a large house in the suburbs.
I'm supposed to feel grateful but I just feel like my parents sacrificed community and love just so I could have a better standard of living. Being a native English speaker is useful for a lot of things but losing your heritage isn't worth it.

我的父母让我相信西方是最好的,而留在这里的我也是少数几个幸运的人之一。他们说我应该感激自己以英语为母语,这样能赚很多钱并在郊区买一所大房子。
我或许应该感激,但我只是觉得我的父母为了提高我的生活水平而牺牲了归属感和爱。成为一个以英语为母语的人对很多事情都很有用,但是失去你的传统就得不偿失了。

I've been working on my mental health and learning more about childhood trauma but I'm just not sure if staying in the West is good for my mental health. I was planning on moving to an Asian exclave but it seems like Asian culture there is so diluted. I'm not saying leaving the west is going to fix all my problems. My inner demons will still follow me wherever I go but I wanted to stay here and do everything I could to improve my life. I feel like the only good thing about living in the West is making more money and working less but I don't see much of a future here. I don't even want to have kids here because it just seems pointless to raise another generation of lost and traumatized children. Even if I try to be a healthy parent at home I feel my kids would get traumatized by the school system and bullying.

我一直在研究自己的心理健康,并学习了更多关于童年创伤的知识,我只是不确定呆在西方对我的心理健康是否有好处。我本来打算搬到亚洲人聚集地,但那里的亚洲文化似乎被稀释了。不是说离开西方就会解决我所有的问题。无论我走到哪里,我内心的恶魔仍然会跟随我,但我想留在这里,尽我所能地改善我的生活。我觉得生活在西方唯一的好处就是做更少的工作赚更多的钱,但我看不到在这里的未来。我甚至不想在这里生孩子,因为抚养又一代内心迷茫和受到创伤的孩子似乎毫无意义。即使我努力在家里做一个健康的家长,我的孩子也会因为学校体制和霸凌受到伤害。

评论翻译
archelogy
After a few years overseeing this sub, my advice has changed. I used to be consistently critical of people thinking of moving, that we should stay and fight.
But my view has modified.
My general view of things is Asians should consider moving if their core social needs aren't being met:
Friends
Being able to find a Significant Other
Respect in everyday life

在看了几年这里的帖子后,我的建议改变了。我以前一直批评那些想搬家的人,认为我们应该留下来战斗。
但我的观点已经改变了。
我的普遍看法是,如果以下亚裔的核心社会需求没有得到满足,那就应该考虑采取行动:
朋友
能够找到重要的另一半
日常生活中的尊重

Over time, it's clear that these, not "job opportunities" are the key to happiness in life.
If you move, you must always consider your professional life, but that's one among other things (1st gen over-dramatized it).
1st gen are money-grubbers and over-value the importance of professional success/money compared to the rest; it matters but not as much as they claim, relative to the bulleted list above.
Causes of social dissatisfaction include: not fitting in with white culture (particularly its extraversion, aggression), not fitting white norms (being short, fat, lanky, having differing facial features that whites have an issue with), having shortcomings that white culture makes a big deal out of (stuttering, Tourette's, etc.).

随着时间的推移,很明显生活中幸福的关键是这些东西,而不是“工作机会”。
如果你搬家了,你肯定要考虑你的职业生涯,但这是考虑因素之一(第一代亚裔过于夸张了)。
第一代亚裔是守财奴,过高评价职业成功/金钱的重要性;和上面的需求清单相比,这很重要,但并不像他们声称的那么重要。
社会不满的原因包括:不适应白人文化(尤其是外向性、攻击性)、不符合白人规范(矮、胖、瘦或者和白人有不同的面部特征)、有白人文化造成的缺点(口吃、妥瑞氏症候群等)。

Or you may have none of these things - but the main thing is not fitting with the white-dominant culture.
I recommend Singapore for English speakers for E/SE Asians, Dubai for English speakers who are S. Asians. I've heard good things from E Asians about Singapore and have my own experience in having to stay in Dubai for a relative's sake.
Otherwise, best to consider where you have language skills such as your ancestral country.

或许你没有这些原因——但最主要的事情是不适应白人主导的文化。
我为说英语的东亚或者东南亚裔推荐新加坡,为说英语的南亚裔推荐迪拜。我从东亚裔那里听到过关于新加坡的好消息,我自己也因为相似性留在了迪拜。
除此以外,最好考虑一下你有哪里的语言技能,比如你的祖先的国家。

I tried moving to India 10 years ago and it was like traveling back 100 years. Health standards, hygiene standards, availability of electricity. It did not work for me. SE Asia may have some, but not all of those problems.
The trauma we experience is not well understood. The way we were raised by our parents put us at an even greater disadvantage then we might otherwise be, being Asians growing up amidst a different kind of people.

10年前我试着搬到印度,那就像回到了100年以前。医疗标准,卫生标准,电力供应情况之类的。那里对我来说不太行。东南亚可能也存在一些问题,但不是全有问题。
我们所经历的创伤还没有被很好地理解。我们被父母抚养长大的方式使我们和其他人比有更大的劣势,因为我们是在异族中长大的亚洲人。

OpenSourcGamer
Yes, those jobs and opportunities are not the entirety of happiness. But without good amount of earnings to achieve some form of financial freedom could result in stress for obvious reasons.
I’d say save up enough to move in another country if one is not happy in the West(mostly USA). This way, having money and moving into a new environment would be much easier to adapt.

是的,这些工作和机会并不是幸福的全部。但如果没有足够的收入来实现某种形式的财务自由,显然会导致压力。
如果一个人在西方(主要是美国)不开心,我建议省下充足的钱搬到另一个国家去。有了钱再进入新环境会更容易适应。

TheStranger113
Absolutely not. Will be going back to the Philippines in the next 2 years or so. With constant violence and shootings, I'm too nervous to stay here and especially to raise kids here. It's also way too expensive to live here. I just don't see a way for me to remain in the US and be comfortable, unfortunately.

当然不要留在西方。我计划在未来两年内回到菲律宾。由于暴力和枪击事件不断,我非常不安无法留在这里,尤其是在这里抚养孩子。住在这里也太贵了。不幸的是,我只是没有办法留在美国并感到舒适。

JohnGwynbleidd
Always glad to see Filipino diaspora going back.

没错看到菲律宾人回来都很高兴。

TheStranger113
Definitely! Honestly all the reasons I listed come second, my first reason is just that I love living in the Philippines.

肯定!老实说,我列出的所有原因都排在第二位,我的首要原因就是我喜欢住在菲律宾。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


disman9876
I am sure many Asian American guys (or diaspora) think these thoughts - go to the East because of culture or stay in the West and continue to suffer abuse as long as money comes in and the work culture isn't as bad as in Asia.
It is messed up when Asian American guys plot their way out of a white suburb to move into an Asian enclave and they start crying with happiness when they see a bunch of Asian people like this is the promiseland. The only reason why Asian enclave are very Asian is because of new immigrants. Once people start moving to the suburbs, they lose their roots

我相信许多亚裔美国人(或侨民)都会有这样的想法——是为了文明而去东方,还是为了钱和没有亚洲那么糟糕的工作文化留在西方,继续遭受虐待。
当亚裔美国人计划离开一个白人郊区,搬到一个亚裔聚集地,当他们看到一群亚裔人时,他们开始高兴地哭泣,仿佛这里就是应许之地,这场面真是一团糟。亚裔聚集地之所以非常亚洲化,唯一的原因就是新移民。一旦人们开始搬到白人社区,他们就失去了根。

I understand
you don't want your kid to be that 100% always achieving Asian kid who is forced to overkill on everything just to get the same treatment or result as other people's kid. The school system in the US is just awful and kids are getting worse. Youth beat up adults and serve no jailtime. They don't even care if it is an Asian kid or adult or elderly. People in the US zoombomb Asian zoom meetings about racial justice with racial slurs while Westerners act as if Asians are the most racist and Asian countries are the most racist.

我知道你不希望你的孩子成为一个必须永远满分的亚裔孩子,他为了得到和别人的孩子一样的待遇或结果而被迫在所有事情上付出过度的努力。美国的学校体制非常糟糕,孩子们的情况也越来越糟。年轻人殴打成年人并且不服刑。他们甚至不在乎是亚洲的孩子、成年人还是老年人。美国人用种族歧视来讨论种族公正,而西方人则表现得好像亚裔是最种族主义的,亚洲国家是最种族主义的。

It is bad for mental health due to all the hypocrisy and gaslighting. The people who talk about equality and justice only wants sextive equality and justice, not for Asians. BIPOC, NAM (non Asian minority), underrepresented minority, and the constant negative media depiction or non-existent positive Asian male characters.

伪善和煤气灯效应对心理健康都是有害的。谈论平等和正义的人只想要选择性的平等和正义,当然选择不是亚裔。而是BIPOC(黑人、原住民为代表的有色人种)、非亚裔少数群体、代表性不足的少数群体,以及在持续的负面媒体中出现或者虚构的正面亚裔男性角色。
(译注:煤气灯效应,是指对受害者施加的情感虐待和操控,让受害者逐渐丧失自尊,产生自我怀疑,无法逃脱。煤气灯效应描述的是一种心理操控手段,受害者深受施害者操控,以至于怀疑自己的记忆、感知或理智。)

Money can only do so much. You can make 6 figures in a low cost of living area like Arkansas or Oklahoma but if everyone hates your guts and you get passive aggressive microaggression all the time in the store, at school, in the hospital, on the road, then it isn't worth it. The parents think by making sacrifice that things get better, but if America is going downhill, they have a hard time coming to terms that they put all their effort in vain.
You can't assimilate when the host culture treats you as "other" based on physical appearances.

金钱能做的事情非常有限。你可以在成本低的地方比如阿肯色州或俄克拉荷马州赚6位数,但如果每个人都讨厌你的本质,你在商店、学校、医院、路上一直被动地遭受攻击性冒犯,那么就不值得了。父母们认为,通过牺牲,事情会变得更好,但如果美国正在走下坡路,他们很难接受他们的所有努力都将白费的事实。
当东道主文化根据外表将你视为“他者”时,你无法同化。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


supermechace
Out of curiosity which state and city did you grow up in assuming you are in USA. As an adult in NYC and Florida, while didn't experience a racist comment free life, didn't experience the level of harassment of the sub. Wondered if it's because there are Asian immigrants who brought their kids into communities that may have mainly formed because of segregation or racial flight. Or are rustbelt communities

出于好奇想问问你在哪个州和城市长大。作为一个纽约和佛罗里达的成年人,我虽然没有过上种族主义言论自由的生活,但没有经历过论坛说的那种程度的骚扰。我在想,这是不是因为有一些亚洲移民把他们的孩子带到了那些主要由于种族隔离或种族歧视而形成的社区。或者是铁锈地带的社区。
原创翻译:龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


SussyCloud
【I understand you don't want your kid to be that 100% always achieving Asian kid who is forced to overkill on everything just to get the same treatment or result as other people's kid.】
I appreciate you writing this essay, and I agree with the overall sentiment in your writings, but I have to comment on the effects these hard upbringings have on some of us.

(引用)“我知道你不希望你的孩子成为一个必须永远满分的亚裔孩子,他为了得到和别人的孩子一样的待遇或结果而被迫在所有事情上付出过度的努力。”
我很感激你写了这篇文章,我同意你的总体观点,但我必须指出这些艰难的成长经历对我们中的一些人的影响。

As hard and superficial as it may sound from me, money IS everything. Especially now growing and experiencing life as a guy approaching 30, I noticed some remarkable changes in people's life priorities and (subsequently also) their dating preferences. People my age are now working their professional careers, and (trying to) starting families. People in more recent dating pool (both men AND women aged 18-30) aren't looking anymore for just mere looks or just pleasure. They are actually looking for peers/equals that they can start a life with, and I noticed this trend getting only more prent with the current inflation and the fact that our generation(s) will be the first ones to be WORSE off than our parents. People are now actually looking for stability.

在我看来,金钱就是一切,这听起来可能既顽固又肤浅。尤其是现在,作为一个接近30岁的人,我正在成长和经历着生活,我注意到人们的生活重点和(随之而来的)约会偏好发生了一些显著的变化。与我同龄的人现在正在为他们的职业生涯奋斗,并(试图)组建家庭。最近约会的人(18-30岁的男性和女性)不再只追求外表或快乐。事实上,他们正在寻找可以构筑生活的同辈/同路人,我发现随着当前的通货膨胀我们这一代人将是第一代比我们的父母更穷的人,这一趋势也将越来越普遍。如今人们实际上在寻求稳定。

And this is where my observations of my upbringing, and many like us as a diaspora comes in. Yes, most of our upbringings were hard. I'd say mine might have been a bit worse because me and my single mom came from poor beginnings and even had close shaves with becoming homeless on several occasions, when we arrived in Europe as immigrants. Now, this right here is a crossroads/breaking point in one's childhood for many of us brothers and sisters out there, both overseas and back home, that will either make or break a person for the rest of their lives.

这就是我对自己以及许多像我们这样散居国外的人成长经历的观察。是的,我们的大多数成长经历都很艰难。我的情况可能更糟,因为我和我的单身母亲出身贫寒,我们作为移民来到欧洲时有几次差点无家可归。如今对我们许多兄弟姐妹来说,无论是在海外还是在国内,那都是我们童年的十字路口/转折点,决定了一个人的余生。

In my case, it turned out for the better fortunately; as hard as my mother was on me at times, she also was a huge inspiration for being a relentless fighter, in spite of some of our hopeless situation at times, which also spurred me to do better as well by the time I attended highschool. And this is where I noticed that one of the fortunes our misfortunate upbringings brought with us, is that you will came out a much stronger person, both emotionally and intellectually, than most of your peers by the time you start attending University and/or started working (the time of your life where ALL of your decisions will actually start to matter) if you managed to survive the aforementioned pressure. You will be able to handle pressure better, get to appreciate your achievements more and most importantly KNOW when to be humble and when to be assertive at times.

对我自己来说比较幸运的是,情况有所好转;尽管我的母亲有时对我很严厉,但她也给了我一个巨大的鼓舞,让我面对一些绝望的处境时成为一名无情的战士,最终促使我在上高中时变得更好。这就是我注意到的艰难的成长经历带来的财富之一,在你开始上大学和开始工作的时候(即你一生中所有的决定都会变得重要的时候),如果你成功地度过了上述压力,你会成为一个无论在情感上还是智力上都比同辈更强大的人。你将能够更好地处理压力,更加面对自己的成就,最重要的是知道什么时候该谦虚,什么时候该自信。

Given, I had to sacrifice much of my early childhood and give up on senior highschool life, where I was busting my ass off while my (white) peers were out playing, drinking, having teenage romances etc. But now being in my late twenties, I am probably the first one of my entire social circle being able to fully purchase a house as a SINGLE ASIAN GUY, with some smart/right decisions and connections I made in university and my current job. Meanwhile, I noticed (?) that I am also getting a lot more advances from my female counterparts both at and outside of work. Maybe it is the clothes I am wearing (I am usually in suit or a peacoat), but I jokingly sometimes say it is probably me as an East-Asian guy riding the K-pop wave lol. But yeah, can't say I am not content with life at the moment; I can afford (most) things, have my own place, drive a nice (mother's ) car and can help out my mom and her family back home financially.

当然我不得不牺牲童年的大部分时间,放弃了高中生活。高中时期,当我的(白人)同龄人外出玩耍、喝酒、早恋的时候,我正筋疲力尽。但现在我才二十几岁,可能已经是整个社交圈中第一个能够以单身亚裔男子的身份完全买房的人,正是因为我在大学和现在的工作中做出了一些明智/正确的决定。与此同时,我注意到(?)在工作内外和女性同事的交流也得到了更多改善。也许是因为我穿的衣服(我通常穿着西装或海军大衣),但我有时会开玩笑地说,这可能是因为我作为一个踏着Kpop舞步的东亚男孩。确实,我很难不承认自己对现在的生活很满意;我能买得起(大多数)东西,有自己的房子,开一辆漂亮的(妈妈的)汽车,可以在经济上帮助我妈妈和她的家人。

In the worst case, money won't buy you hapiness, but it sure as hell makes your life easier. You might still be an outcast making 6 figures in some racist backwater in the west, but that 6 figure salary can afford you to move somewhere more pleasant, this wouldn't have been possible if you didn't have the sufficient resources (money) to do it in the first place. That case, it is an uphill battle.

在最坏的情况下,金钱不会给你带来快乐,但它肯定会让你的生活更轻松。在西方一些种族主义严重的闭塞地区,你可能仍然是一个挣6位数的被排斥者,但6位数的薪水可以让你搬到更舒适的地方,如果你没有足够的资源(金钱)就不可能做到这件事。如果没钱,这就是一场艰难的战斗。

In my case, it just took me 28 freaking years (of which the first 9 was just practically hell) to get there. I can totally understand that this kind of life isn't for any of the other brothers and sisters out there who experienced the same and at times did succumb to the sheer pressure.

就我而言,我花了28年(前9年几乎是地狱)就达到了目标。我的兄弟姐妹也经历了同样的事情,很多时候会屈服于纯粹的压力,所以我完全理解这种生活不一定适合其他人。

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