古希腊是否从古埃及偷走了哲学和数学？
正文翻译
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评论翻译
Jaakko Joutsi
I have answered this same question many times before in Quora. To put it brief: many historical documents show that Egyptians had the basic knowledge about the geometry, although most of it was created for practical purposes. Every Greek early philosopher up to Aristotle praise the Egyptian geometry, Astrology and other wisdom they practiced.
我以前在Quora回答过很多次同样的问题。简而言之：许多历史文献表明，埃及人拥有关于几何学的基本知识，尽管其中大部分是为实用目的而创造的。每个希腊早期的哲学家直到亚里士多德都称赞埃及人的几何学、占星术和其他他们实践的智慧。
I have answered this same question many times before in Quora. To put it brief: many historical documents show that Egyptians had the basic knowledge about the geometry, although most of it was created for practical purposes. Every Greek early philosopher up to Aristotle praise the Egyptian geometry, Astrology and other wisdom they practiced.
我以前在Quora回答过很多次同样的问题。简而言之：许多历史文献表明，埃及人拥有关于几何学的基本知识，尽管其中大部分是为实用目的而创造的。每个希腊早期的哲学家直到亚里士多德都称赞埃及人的几何学、占星术和其他他们实践的智慧。
Pythagoras, Thales and many other studied geometry in Egypt, that much is also true. Even the Pythagorean equation for straight corner triangle seems to have been known by ancient Egyptians and Babylonians.
毕达哥拉斯、泰勒斯和许多其他人在埃及研究过几何，这也是事实。就连勾股直角三角形的方程式似乎也为古埃及人和巴比伦人所知。
毕达哥拉斯、泰勒斯和许多其他人在埃及研究过几何，这也是事实。就连勾股直角三角形的方程式似乎也为古埃及人和巴比伦人所知。
But: even if some of the theorems in Euclid´s book were known by Egyptians and others, it was only small part of the Greek mathematics: the elementary part. Greeks considered geometry as holy art, that investigate the true being, and many of the theorems of late antique geometrians, like those of Diophantus, Apollonius of Perga, Pappus of Alexandria and Archimedes showed the superiority of Greek geometry related to other systems: Greeks were the first ones that created the proof “ad absurdum”: the proof that have been the most powerful tools seen also in today´s mathematics.
但是：即使欧几里得书中的一些定理被埃及人和其他人知道，它也只是希腊数学的一小部分：初级部分。希腊人认为几何学是一种神圣的艺术，可以研究真正的存在，许多晚期古希腊几何学家的定理，如迪奥潘图斯、佩尔加的阿波罗尼乌斯、亚历山大的帕普斯和阿基米德的定理，显示了希腊几何学与其他系统的优越性： 希腊人是第一个创造了 "荒谬 "证明的人：这种证明在今天的数学中也是最有力的工具。
但是：即使欧几里得书中的一些定理被埃及人和其他人知道，它也只是希腊数学的一小部分：初级部分。希腊人认为几何学是一种神圣的艺术，可以研究真正的存在，许多晚期古希腊几何学家的定理，如迪奥潘图斯、佩尔加的阿波罗尼乌斯、亚历山大的帕普斯和阿基米德的定理，显示了希腊几何学与其他系统的优越性： 希腊人是第一个创造了 "荒谬 "证明的人：这种证明在今天的数学中也是最有力的工具。
So, the futile fight between “eurocentrist” Greeks and “afrocentrist” Egyptians in contemporary world is futile. If ancient Egypt was Newton, then Ancient Greece was Einstein. Newton was by no means lesser than Einstein, but the Einstein was the follower (and critical voice) of Newton. Of course Einstein was more sophisticated, but no physicist in the world would name Newton as “futile” or “stupid”.
因此，在当代世界，"欧洲中心主义 "的希腊人和 "非洲中心主义 "的埃及人之间的斗争是徒劳的。如果说古埃及是牛顿，那么古希腊就是爱因斯坦。牛顿绝不比爱因斯坦差，但爱因斯坦是牛顿的追随者（和批评声音）。当然爱因斯坦更成熟，但世界上没有一个物理学家会把牛顿称为 "徒劳 "或 "愚蠢"。
因此，在当代世界，"欧洲中心主义 "的希腊人和 "非洲中心主义 "的埃及人之间的斗争是徒劳的。如果说古埃及是牛顿，那么古希腊就是爱因斯坦。牛顿绝不比爱因斯坦差，但爱因斯坦是牛顿的追随者（和批评声音）。当然爱因斯坦更成熟，但世界上没有一个物理学家会把牛顿称为 "徒劳 "或 "愚蠢"。
Robert Strickland
I really don't think that "steal" is the right word to use. Were the Egyptians practicing those sciences before the Greeks? I would say yes. The truth is, that we "all" stand on the shoulders of giants.Every invention that I can think of was either an iteration on a previous concept or was in the least built using underline technologies discovered by someone else.
我真的不认为 "偷 "是一个正确的词。在希腊人之前，埃及人是否在实践这些科学？我想说是的。事实是，我们 "都 "站在巨人的肩膀上。我能想到的每一项发明，要么是对以前的概念的迭代，要么至少是利用别人发现的底层技术建造的。
I really don't think that "steal" is the right word to use. Were the Egyptians practicing those sciences before the Greeks? I would say yes. The truth is, that we "all" stand on the shoulders of giants.Every invention that I can think of was either an iteration on a previous concept or was in the least built using underline technologies discovered by someone else.
我真的不认为 "偷 "是一个正确的词。在希腊人之前，埃及人是否在实践这些科学？我想说是的。事实是，我们 "都 "站在巨人的肩膀上。我能想到的每一项发明，要么是对以前的概念的迭代，要么至少是利用别人发现的底层技术建造的。
Math, chemistry, art, mechanics.
These are technologies that have existed, even if only in a primative form, since humans have walked this earth.
The only reason this topic even comes up as often as it does is because of the racial overtones that are associated with it. This is been going on for centuries now, and is the reason why we think so highly of Hippocrates and yet so little, if at all, of Imhotep http://www.oakwood.edu/historyportal/Research/otherside/imhotep.htm
数学、化学、艺术、机械学。
这些都是自从人类在地球上行走以来一直存在的技术，即使只是以原始的形式存在。
这个话题如此频繁地出现的唯一原因是与之相关的种族色彩。这已经持续了几个世纪，这也是为什么我们对希波克拉底的评价如此之高，而对伊姆霍特普的评价却如此之低（如果有的话）的原因
These are technologies that have existed, even if only in a primative form, since humans have walked this earth.
The only reason this topic even comes up as often as it does is because of the racial overtones that are associated with it. This is been going on for centuries now, and is the reason why we think so highly of Hippocrates and yet so little, if at all, of Imhotep http://www.oakwood.edu/historyportal/Research/otherside/imhotep.htm
数学、化学、艺术、机械学。
这些都是自从人类在地球上行走以来一直存在的技术，即使只是以原始的形式存在。
这个话题如此频繁地出现的唯一原因是与之相关的种族色彩。这已经持续了几个世纪，这也是为什么我们对希波克拉底的评价如此之高，而对伊姆霍特普的评价却如此之低（如果有的话）的原因
If the definition of steal in this case is to use the discoveries of others and to get recognition for either rediscovering them, repurposing then or otherwise getting credit for advancements made to them, then we all are thieves.
如果在这种情况下，偷窃的定义是使用他人的发现，并因重新发现它们、重新利用它们或以其他方式获得对它们的进步的认可，那么我们都是小偷。
如果在这种情况下，偷窃的定义是使用他人的发现，并因重新发现它们、重新利用它们或以其他方式获得对它们的进步的认可，那么我们都是小偷。
Adam Voight
In favor of the thesis of “false originality”:
It is possible that the Egyptians had something like “philosophy” but that given the priestly castes aversion to publication of their views (a secrecy mentioned and endorsed by Plato) it may be that what the Greeks acquired from them merely appears to be a Greek invention because the Egyptians did not publish them. Similarly, while the Pythagoreans published nothing, and most of what we have of them is from students of Pythagoras who left and published their own works. From these fragments, scholars must try and reconstruct the original ideas of Pythagoras himself. Likewise, it may be the case that we have to reconstruct Egyptian thought from the Greeks and Hebrews.
支持 "虚假的原创性 "的论点：
埃及人有可能有类似于 "哲学 "的东西，但鉴于祭司阶层厌恶发表他们的观点（柏拉图提到并赞同这种保密方式），可能希腊人从他们那里获得的东西只是看起来是希腊人的发明，因为埃及人没有发表它们。同样，虽然毕达哥拉斯人没有发表任何东西，而我们对他们的了解大多来自毕达哥拉斯的学生，他们留下并发表了自己的作品。从这些碎片中，学者们必须尝试并重建毕达哥拉斯本人的原始思想。同样，我们也必须从希腊人和希伯来人那里重建埃及人的思想，这可能是一种情况。
In favor of the thesis of “false originality”:
It is possible that the Egyptians had something like “philosophy” but that given the priestly castes aversion to publication of their views (a secrecy mentioned and endorsed by Plato) it may be that what the Greeks acquired from them merely appears to be a Greek invention because the Egyptians did not publish them. Similarly, while the Pythagoreans published nothing, and most of what we have of them is from students of Pythagoras who left and published their own works. From these fragments, scholars must try and reconstruct the original ideas of Pythagoras himself. Likewise, it may be the case that we have to reconstruct Egyptian thought from the Greeks and Hebrews.
支持 "虚假的原创性 "的论点：
埃及人有可能有类似于 "哲学 "的东西，但鉴于祭司阶层厌恶发表他们的观点（柏拉图提到并赞同这种保密方式），可能希腊人从他们那里获得的东西只是看起来是希腊人的发明，因为埃及人没有发表它们。同样，虽然毕达哥拉斯人没有发表任何东西，而我们对他们的了解大多来自毕达哥拉斯的学生，他们留下并发表了自己的作品。从这些碎片中，学者们必须尝试并重建毕达哥拉斯本人的原始思想。同样，我们也必须从希腊人和希伯来人那里重建埃及人的思想，这可能是一种情况。
Against the thesis of “false originality”:
However, if you look at what the Greeks did publish, from the myths of Homer and Hesiod (which are undeniably both Greek and pre-philosophic) to Thales and Anaximander, to the Ionians, then the Eleatics, then the Athenians, you find interesting facts which are undeniable.
反对 "假原创 "的论调：
然而，如果你看看希腊人所发表的东西，从荷马和赫西俄德的神话（不可否认，这些神话既是希腊的，也是前哲学的）到泰勒斯和阿那克西曼德，再到爱奥尼亚人，然后是埃利亚特人，然后是雅典人，你会发现有趣的事实，这是不可否认的。
However, if you look at what the Greeks did publish, from the myths of Homer and Hesiod (which are undeniably both Greek and pre-philosophic) to Thales and Anaximander, to the Ionians, then the Eleatics, then the Athenians, you find interesting facts which are undeniable.
反对 "假原创 "的论调：
然而，如果你看看希腊人所发表的东西，从荷马和赫西俄德的神话（不可否认，这些神话既是希腊的，也是前哲学的）到泰勒斯和阿那克西曼德，再到爱奥尼亚人，然后是埃利亚特人，然后是雅典人，你会发现有趣的事实，这是不可否认的。
1.First you start with pure myths - Homer, Hesiod
2.Then you have religious movements like the mysteries with basic proto-science at the same time, including math, which everyone agrees is from the Near East.
3.Then there is a series of conflicting schools of thought whose debates make no reference to any non-Greek opinions.
4.These schools of thought develop from mythical thinking to the complete scientific world view of Aristotle without any reference to non-Greek opinions.
1.首先你从纯粹的神话开始--荷马、赫西奥德
2.然后你有宗教运动，如神秘主义，同时还有基本的原始科学，包括数学，大家都同意它来自近东。
3.然后是一系列相互冲突的思想流派，它们的辩论没有提到任何非希腊的意见。
这些学派从神话思维发展到亚里士多德的完整科学世界观，没有提到任何非希腊的意见。
2.Then you have religious movements like the mysteries with basic proto-science at the same time, including math, which everyone agrees is from the Near East.
3.Then there is a series of conflicting schools of thought whose debates make no reference to any non-Greek opinions.
4.These schools of thought develop from mythical thinking to the complete scientific world view of Aristotle without any reference to non-Greek opinions.
1.首先你从纯粹的神话开始--荷马、赫西奥德
2.然后你有宗教运动，如神秘主义，同时还有基本的原始科学，包括数学，大家都同意它来自近东。
3.然后是一系列相互冲突的思想流派，它们的辩论没有提到任何非希腊的意见。
这些学派从神话思维发展到亚里士多德的完整科学世界观，没有提到任何非希腊的意见。
While people all over the world practiced science or engineering, only the Greeks asked “What is science?” and “How is it that math is useful for science?” - “How can we know things about the external world by studying math?”
Nobody except the Greeks ever asked these questions, and mathematicians are still divided as to what numbers are. Are they purely mental entities? If so, are the eternally pre-existing or merely defined by convention? If they are mental, how can they be useful or applicable in the material world?
当全世界的人都在实践科学或工程时，只有希腊人问 "什么是科学？"和 "数学对科学有什么用？" - "我们如何通过研究数学来认识外部世界的事物？"
除了希腊人，没有人问过这些问题，而数学家们对于数字是什么仍然存在分歧。它们是纯粹的精神实体吗？如果是的话，它们是永远预先存在的，还是仅仅由惯例定义的？如果它们是心智的，那么它们在物质世界中怎么可能有用或适用？
Nobody except the Greeks ever asked these questions, and mathematicians are still divided as to what numbers are. Are they purely mental entities? If so, are the eternally pre-existing or merely defined by convention? If they are mental, how can they be useful or applicable in the material world?
当全世界的人都在实践科学或工程时，只有希腊人问 "什么是科学？"和 "数学对科学有什么用？" - "我们如何通过研究数学来认识外部世界的事物？"
除了希腊人，没有人问过这些问题，而数学家们对于数字是什么仍然存在分歧。它们是纯粹的精神实体吗？如果是的话，它们是永远预先存在的，还是仅仅由惯例定义的？如果它们是心智的，那么它们在物质世界中怎么可能有用或适用？
If you can find anyone who asks these questions before the Greeks, then maybe the admiration of their genious shared by the Romans, the Muslims, the Italians, and all subsequent nations will be shown to be unwarranted.
Anyone who bothers to read them can see that they have contributed more than geometry, astronomy, theology, myth, and medicine, which the Greeks acknowledged were important Egyptian contributions.
如果你能找到在希腊人之前提出这些问题的人，那么也许罗马人、穆斯林、意大利人和所有后来的国家对他们的天才的钦佩就会被证明是毫无道理的。
任何费心阅读的人都可以看到，他们的贡献不仅仅是几何学、天文学、神学、神话和医学，希腊人承认这些是埃及的重要贡献。
Anyone who bothers to read them can see that they have contributed more than geometry, astronomy, theology, myth, and medicine, which the Greeks acknowledged were important Egyptian contributions.
如果你能找到在希腊人之前提出这些问题的人，那么也许罗马人、穆斯林、意大利人和所有后来的国家对他们的天才的钦佩就会被证明是毫无道理的。
任何费心阅读的人都可以看到，他们的贡献不仅仅是几何学、天文学、神学、神话和医学，希腊人承认这些是埃及的重要贡献。
The Romans conquered the Greeks and the Egyptians, but even they admitted that the Greeks were special, and this was because they read them and tried to improve on them. In so doing, the became what we now call “educated”, and this is the same meaning which we now give to the phrase “liberal education”.
罗马人征服了希腊和埃及，但是他们承认希腊人是特殊的，因为他们研读希腊文化，并试图在其基础上进行改进。通过这样做，他们成为了我们现在所称的“受过教育的人”，而这恰好是“通识教育”这一短语现在所赋予的意义。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
罗马人征服了希腊和埃及，但是他们承认希腊人是特殊的，因为他们研读希腊文化，并试图在其基础上进行改进。通过这样做，他们成为了我们现在所称的“受过教育的人”，而这恰好是“通识教育”这一短语现在所赋予的意义。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
John Parven
According to legend, solon of Athens, the founder of Athens was a good friend of the Egyptian elite. The Egyptians noticed that the Greeks suffered architectural damage due to earthquakes and yes gave them mathematical and scientific advice. I would not say the Greeks stole the knowledge because the Egyptians willingly gave the knowledge away.
据传说，雅典的创始人索伦是埃及精英的好朋友。埃及人注意到希腊人因地震而遭受建筑破坏，是的给他们提供数学和科学建议。我不会说希腊人偷了知识，因为埃及人心甘情愿地把知识送出去。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
According to legend, solon of Athens, the founder of Athens was a good friend of the Egyptian elite. The Egyptians noticed that the Greeks suffered architectural damage due to earthquakes and yes gave them mathematical and scientific advice. I would not say the Greeks stole the knowledge because the Egyptians willingly gave the knowledge away.
据传说，雅典的创始人索伦是埃及精英的好朋友。埃及人注意到希腊人因地震而遭受建筑破坏，是的给他们提供数学和科学建议。我不会说希腊人偷了知识，因为埃及人心甘情愿地把知识送出去。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Costas Paphitis
Did Cambridge university steal knowledge from Oxford University? Just to give an example of the inability of people to grasp the true meaning of knowledge.
Knowledge is not just something one can steal. Knowledge belongs to every human being. Knowledge is a never-ending process of learning.
You either commit yourself to learn and expand your own intellectual ability and in the process, you place your little bit of contribution to the evolvement of the human kind and hence knowledge or you just refuse to learn and stay a vegetable.
剑桥大学是否从牛津大学窃取了知识？仅举一例，说明人们没有能力掌握知识的真正含义。知识不是一个人可以偷的东西。知识属于每一个人。知识是一个永无止境的学习过程。你要么致力于学习和扩大自己的智力，在这个过程中，你为人类的发展和知识的发展做出自己的一点贡献，要么你就拒绝学习，继续做一个植物人。
Did Cambridge university steal knowledge from Oxford University? Just to give an example of the inability of people to grasp the true meaning of knowledge.
Knowledge is not just something one can steal. Knowledge belongs to every human being. Knowledge is a never-ending process of learning.
You either commit yourself to learn and expand your own intellectual ability and in the process, you place your little bit of contribution to the evolvement of the human kind and hence knowledge or you just refuse to learn and stay a vegetable.
剑桥大学是否从牛津大学窃取了知识？仅举一例，说明人们没有能力掌握知识的真正含义。知识不是一个人可以偷的东西。知识属于每一个人。知识是一个永无止境的学习过程。你要么致力于学习和扩大自己的智力，在这个过程中，你为人类的发展和知识的发展做出自己的一点贡献，要么你就拒绝学习，继续做一个植物人。
Doug Shaver
No more than anybody who came after the Greeks stole it from them. Nobody owns anything in philosophy or mathematics.
It is possible that some Greek philosophers (philosophy included mathematics in those days) got some of their ideas directly from Egyptian sources. If it did happen, then by modern academic standards the Greeks should have credited those sources. But I am aware of no particular instance in which this has been documented — and the documentation would have to include identification of the Egyptian sources. Absent that kind of evidence, the accusation that the Greeks accomplished nothing that the Egyptians hadn’t already done is just silly.
没有比在希腊人之后的任何人从他们那里偷来的更多。在哲学和数学方面没有人拥有任何东西。
有可能一些希腊哲学家（当时的哲学包括数学）直接从埃及的来源得到了他们的一些想法。如果这确实发生了，那么按照现代学术标准，希腊人应该记下这些来源。但我不知道有什么特别的例子可以证明这一点--而且这种证明必须包括对埃及来源的确认。在没有这种证据的情况下，指责希腊人没有完成埃及人没有完成的事情是很愚蠢的。
No more than anybody who came after the Greeks stole it from them. Nobody owns anything in philosophy or mathematics.
It is possible that some Greek philosophers (philosophy included mathematics in those days) got some of their ideas directly from Egyptian sources. If it did happen, then by modern academic standards the Greeks should have credited those sources. But I am aware of no particular instance in which this has been documented — and the documentation would have to include identification of the Egyptian sources. Absent that kind of evidence, the accusation that the Greeks accomplished nothing that the Egyptians hadn’t already done is just silly.
没有比在希腊人之后的任何人从他们那里偷来的更多。在哲学和数学方面没有人拥有任何东西。
有可能一些希腊哲学家（当时的哲学包括数学）直接从埃及的来源得到了他们的一些想法。如果这确实发生了，那么按照现代学术标准，希腊人应该记下这些来源。但我不知道有什么特别的例子可以证明这一点--而且这种证明必须包括对埃及来源的确认。在没有这种证据的情况下，指责希腊人没有完成埃及人没有完成的事情是很愚蠢的。
Charles Evans
That's not how these things work.Ancient Egypt may have developed math and philosophy before, contemporaneously with, or after ancient Greece, and vice versa. One culture may have imported math and philosophy from the other, or they may have developed the ideas independently. I don't know, I am not an expert in this type of thing (although I would love to hear the answer from those who do know, this is an area of interest of mine).
这些事情不是这样的。古埃及可能在古希腊之前、同时或之后发展了数学和哲学，反之亦然。一种文化可能从另一种文化引进了数学和哲学，或者他们可能独立发展了这些思想。我不知道，我不是这类事情的专家（虽然我很想听听那些知道的人的答案，这是我感兴趣的一个领域）。
That's not how these things work.Ancient Egypt may have developed math and philosophy before, contemporaneously with, or after ancient Greece, and vice versa. One culture may have imported math and philosophy from the other, or they may have developed the ideas independently. I don't know, I am not an expert in this type of thing (although I would love to hear the answer from those who do know, this is an area of interest of mine).
这些事情不是这样的。古埃及可能在古希腊之前、同时或之后发展了数学和哲学，反之亦然。一种文化可能从另一种文化引进了数学和哲学，或者他们可能独立发展了这些思想。我不知道，我不是这类事情的专家（虽然我很想听听那些知道的人的答案，这是我感兴趣的一个领域）。
However, you can't steal a concept. Even if Greece imported math and philosophy from Egypt, that doesn't mean Egypt was suddenly deprived of the use of math and philosophy. They also weren't deprived of any of the physical or intellectual products of math and philosophy. This sort of thing is not a zero-sum game, both cultures can derive the full benefits of their mathematics and philosophy regardless of what other cultures are using them. In fact, in general and probably in this specific case as well, accumulation of knowledge is a positive-sum game: both parties not only benefit from their own knowledge, but they can benefit from the knowledge of the other party as well. There are some exceptions to this, but this probably isn't one of them.
然而，你不能偷窃一个概念。即使希腊从埃及引进了数学和哲学，这也不意味着埃及突然被剥夺了对数学和哲学的使用。他们也没有被剥夺任何数学和哲学的物理或智力产品。这种事情不是一个零和游戏，两种文化都可以从他们的数学和哲学中获得充分的好处，而不管其他文化是如何使用它们的。事实上，在一般情况下，可能在这个具体案例中也是如此，知识的积累是一个正和游戏：双方不仅从自己的知识中受益，而且还可以从对方的知识中受益。这其中有一些例外，但这可能不是其中之一。
然而，你不能偷窃一个概念。即使希腊从埃及引进了数学和哲学，这也不意味着埃及突然被剥夺了对数学和哲学的使用。他们也没有被剥夺任何数学和哲学的物理或智力产品。这种事情不是一个零和游戏，两种文化都可以从他们的数学和哲学中获得充分的好处，而不管其他文化是如何使用它们的。事实上，在一般情况下，可能在这个具体案例中也是如此，知识的积累是一个正和游戏：双方不仅从自己的知识中受益，而且还可以从对方的知识中受益。这其中有一些例外，但这可能不是其中之一。
Melisa Bell
The Greeks took all the knowledge Egypt had to offer when they conquered it. That is how it is done in war folks, back then and today. Whether the taking is shrouded in secret or not. Let’s not be in our feelings about the past you’ll get gray hairs. Be aware I am not judging either civilization.
希腊人在征服埃及时带走了埃及的所有知识。这就是战争中的做法，无论在当时还是今天都是如此。无论拿的东西是否被遮盖在秘密之中。我们不要太过情感化对待过去，否则只会让自己更显老态。请注意，我不是在评判两种文明。
The Greeks took all the knowledge Egypt had to offer when they conquered it. That is how it is done in war folks, back then and today. Whether the taking is shrouded in secret or not. Let’s not be in our feelings about the past you’ll get gray hairs. Be aware I am not judging either civilization.
希腊人在征服埃及时带走了埃及的所有知识。这就是战争中的做法，无论在当时还是今天都是如此。无论拿的东西是否被遮盖在秘密之中。我们不要太过情感化对待过去，否则只会让自己更显老态。请注意，我不是在评判两种文明。
To steal something is different from taking possession of it. The Greek claimed the knowledge as their own period. Spoils of war ain’t just gold and land. It is always about the knowledge people! Forget what you’ve heard. Given the amount of time the Egyptian civilization endured and the sophistication of it there was a vast amount of knowledge the Greeks took possession of, I mean how long did it take one to learn it all? Decades by the admission of the Greeks. That fact alone is telling. Let’s be real it’s kinda hard not to covet something like that. Anyway, Who went to Greece to spend years to be educated before ancient Egypt fell? Nobody. Again very telling. Please Remember the past belongs to humanity as a collective. Not to give proper credit or to put forth unverified and unclear information to purposely distort the truth is regressive and a complete waste all our time and energy, foolishness.
偷东西与占有它是不同的。希腊人声称这些知识是他们自己的。战争的战利品不仅仅是黄金和土地。它永远是关于知识的人! 忘记你所听到的。考虑到埃及文明持续的时间和它的复杂性，希腊人占有了大量的知识，我的意思是一个人要花多长时间才能学会这些知识？按希腊人的说法是几十年。仅仅这一事实就能说明问题。让我们现实一点，不觊觎这样的东西是有点难的。总之，在古埃及灭亡之前，谁会去希腊花几年时间接受教育？没有人。这也很能说明问题。请记住，过去是属于人类集体的。不给予适当的荣誉或提出未经核实和不明确的信息来故意歪曲事实是倒退的，完全是浪费我们所有的时间和精力，是愚蠢的。
偷东西与占有它是不同的。希腊人声称这些知识是他们自己的。战争的战利品不仅仅是黄金和土地。它永远是关于知识的人! 忘记你所听到的。考虑到埃及文明持续的时间和它的复杂性，希腊人占有了大量的知识，我的意思是一个人要花多长时间才能学会这些知识？按希腊人的说法是几十年。仅仅这一事实就能说明问题。让我们现实一点，不觊觎这样的东西是有点难的。总之，在古埃及灭亡之前，谁会去希腊花几年时间接受教育？没有人。这也很能说明问题。请记住，过去是属于人类集体的。不给予适当的荣誉或提出未经核实和不明确的信息来故意歪曲事实是倒退的，完全是浪费我们所有的时间和精力，是愚蠢的。
We already know Egypt was ancient before the development of what is known as Ancient Greece. Given all the Egyptian dynasties we know of Ancient Greece wasn’t all that ancient. The fact is the Greeks, and their forefathers, among others went to Egypt to be educated, period. Why wouldn’t they?
我们已经知道，在所谓的古希腊发展之前，埃及就是一个古老的国家。鉴于我们所知道的所有埃及王朝，古希腊并不是那么古老。事实是，希腊人和他们的祖先，以及其他一些人去埃及接受教育，就是这样。他们为什么不呢？
我们已经知道，在所谓的古希腊发展之前，埃及就是一个古老的国家。鉴于我们所知道的所有埃及王朝，古希腊并不是那么古老。事实是，希腊人和他们的祖先，以及其他一些人去埃及接受教育，就是这样。他们为什么不呢？
Egypt heavily influenced the wealthy of Greece any other organized people near them period. Obviously. Egypt molded the Greek minds that had the positions and power that eventually brought about its evolution. The knowledge that the Greeks took possession of was exploited, plagiarized, and perverted. Yeah all of that. Why wouldn’t be? I mean we’re talking about humans here right? Good ones, bad ones, some a little of both, and others....with mental and social disorders. One could argue the Greeks mentioned whenever this topic surfaces were Egyptian in all but appearance given the pervasive influence the culture had on them, their forefathers, the whole ancient world. Obviously.
埃及对希腊和周边地区的财富有着很大的影响，这是显而易见的事实。埃及塑造了那些在体制中处于权力地位的希腊人的思想，并最终促使了其演化。希腊人所获取的知识被利用、抄袭和歪曲，这是很可惜的。但是，这非常正常。毕竟我们讨论的是一个涉及到人类的话题，其中既有好的人，也有坏的人，在一些人身上还伴随着精神和社交障碍。可以认为，每当谈到希腊文化时，一个可能的观点是，除了外表之外，希腊人几乎完全是从埃及文化中获取灵感的，因为后者对前者及其祖先和整个古代世界都产生了深远影响。
埃及对希腊和周边地区的财富有着很大的影响，这是显而易见的事实。埃及塑造了那些在体制中处于权力地位的希腊人的思想，并最终促使了其演化。希腊人所获取的知识被利用、抄袭和歪曲，这是很可惜的。但是，这非常正常。毕竟我们讨论的是一个涉及到人类的话题，其中既有好的人，也有坏的人，在一些人身上还伴随着精神和社交障碍。可以认为，每当谈到希腊文化时，一个可能的观点是，除了外表之外，希腊人几乎完全是从埃及文化中获取灵感的，因为后者对前者及其祖先和整个古代世界都产生了深远影响。
Thomas Musselman
If a farmer in a field somewhere invented math to calculate square acreage it would be lost to history: you need cities and scribes keeping records to show what math knowledge people had where and when. The people between the Tigris and Euphrates had civilization first, before Egypt, and Egypt did before the Myceneans and Cretans, who did before what we think of as “the Greeks”. Each passed knowledge to the next, and each invented new math concepts which they passed to the next that the former did not have. Ideas were not “owned”. The Mayans were probably the first to have a concept of “zero” (which troubled the philosophical Greeks, who didn’t like the idea of nothingness), but developed in isolation; math concepts in East Indian history are of disputed dates but may have derived from the Harappans for all we know. China probably developed independently like the Mayans.
如果一个在某个地方的农民发明了用于计算广场英亩的数学方法，这种知识有可能会因为缺乏城市和文员留下的记录而被遗忘在历史长河中。两河流域地区是最早拥有文明的地方，比埃及更早；而埃及又比迈锡尼人和克里特人早，后者又比我们通常所称的“希腊人”早。每一代人都将自己拥有的知识传承给下一代，同时又为后来者发明了新的数学概念。在这个过程中，人类并不存在所谓的“所有权”。或许玛雅人是最早有“零”的概念的人类（其中引发了哲学上的争议，因为希腊人对“虚无”这一概念并不善于理解），但这种思想发展是相对孤立的；东印度历史上的数学概念是存在争议的，但它们也可能来源于哈拉帕文化。中国的数学发展可能与玛雅人类似，即独立开发。
If a farmer in a field somewhere invented math to calculate square acreage it would be lost to history: you need cities and scribes keeping records to show what math knowledge people had where and when. The people between the Tigris and Euphrates had civilization first, before Egypt, and Egypt did before the Myceneans and Cretans, who did before what we think of as “the Greeks”. Each passed knowledge to the next, and each invented new math concepts which they passed to the next that the former did not have. Ideas were not “owned”. The Mayans were probably the first to have a concept of “zero” (which troubled the philosophical Greeks, who didn’t like the idea of nothingness), but developed in isolation; math concepts in East Indian history are of disputed dates but may have derived from the Harappans for all we know. China probably developed independently like the Mayans.
如果一个在某个地方的农民发明了用于计算广场英亩的数学方法，这种知识有可能会因为缺乏城市和文员留下的记录而被遗忘在历史长河中。两河流域地区是最早拥有文明的地方，比埃及更早；而埃及又比迈锡尼人和克里特人早，后者又比我们通常所称的“希腊人”早。每一代人都将自己拥有的知识传承给下一代，同时又为后来者发明了新的数学概念。在这个过程中，人类并不存在所谓的“所有权”。或许玛雅人是最早有“零”的概念的人类（其中引发了哲学上的争议，因为希腊人对“虚无”这一概念并不善于理解），但这种思想发展是相对孤立的；东印度历史上的数学概念是存在争议的，但它们也可能来源于哈拉帕文化。中国的数学发展可能与玛雅人类似，即独立开发。
The Greeks (Pythagorans) may have been the first to worship mathematics, and certainly made huge strides their forebears did not, including calculating a decent approximation of the circumference of the Earth, the strides that “Euclid” summarized in geometric proofs, and producing one of the greatest minds in history, Archimedes.
希腊人（毕达哥拉斯人）可能是第一个崇拜数学的人，而且肯定取得了他们的祖先没有取得的巨大进步，包括计算出地球周长的体面近似值，"欧几里德 "在几何证明中总结的进步，并产生了历史上最伟大的思想之一，阿基米德。
希腊人（毕达哥拉斯人）可能是第一个崇拜数学的人，而且肯定取得了他们的祖先没有取得的巨大进步，包括计算出地球周长的体面近似值，"欧几里德 "在几何证明中总结的进步，并产生了历史上最伟大的思想之一，阿基米德。
Johnny W
People communicate with, and learn from each other.
Steal is not an aproperate word to describe any historical events, because anyone who have the original claim of 'being stolen' have been died and became irrelevent. We use the word 'influence'.
Now in many counties people use fork and knife to eat food; say Greek invented them, do we steal this ideal from Greeks?
I am now using Latin alphabet to wrint down things, did we steal language from Ancient Rome (who did they steal from)?
I like the yellow painting of your house, I painted my house yellow, do I have to request your permission?
人们相互交流，相互学习。
偷窃并不是描述任何历史事件的恰当词汇，因为任何最初声称 "被偷窃 "的人都已经死亡，变得无关紧要。我们使用 "影响 "这个词。
现在在许多国家，人们使用叉子和刀子吃东西；说是希腊人发明的，难道我们从希腊人那里偷了这个理想？
我现在用拉丁字母来写东西，我们是不是从古罗马偷了语言（他们偷了谁的）？
我喜欢你的房子的黄色画，我把我的房子涂成黄色，我需要请求你的同意吗？
People communicate with, and learn from each other.
Steal is not an aproperate word to describe any historical events, because anyone who have the original claim of 'being stolen' have been died and became irrelevent. We use the word 'influence'.
Now in many counties people use fork and knife to eat food; say Greek invented them, do we steal this ideal from Greeks?
I am now using Latin alphabet to wrint down things, did we steal language from Ancient Rome (who did they steal from)?
I like the yellow painting of your house, I painted my house yellow, do I have to request your permission?
人们相互交流，相互学习。
偷窃并不是描述任何历史事件的恰当词汇，因为任何最初声称 "被偷窃 "的人都已经死亡，变得无关紧要。我们使用 "影响 "这个词。
现在在许多国家，人们使用叉子和刀子吃东西；说是希腊人发明的，难道我们从希腊人那里偷了这个理想？
我现在用拉丁字母来写东西，我们是不是从古罗马偷了语言（他们偷了谁的）？
我喜欢你的房子的黄色画，我把我的房子涂成黄色，我需要请求你的同意吗？
Panos Louvros
The very word philosophy is Greek. Considering that and that I have never seen any kind of Egyptian philosophy to predate the scientifically proved and specified in time Greek ideas, I gather that there is no such possibility. Keep in mind that there is no parthenogenesis, Greek word for Virgin birth, in art generally. Every original idea is never entirely original. These two civilizations certainly came in exchange of ideas and it is entirely possible that some Greek ideas where in origin inspired by Egyptian customs or way of thought. However without basing this on any particular knowledge, Egyptians and Greeks developed as two different schools of thought and the ideas of state, person, politics, democracy, ethics and the detachment from the divine, just to name a few, are both of core importance to classic Greek philosophy but not present in the Egyptian culture in any expression of life.
哲学这个词是希腊语。考虑到这一点，以及我从未见过任何种类的埃及哲学能早于科学证明和具体时间的希腊思想，我认为不存在这种可能性。请记住，在艺术中一般不存在孤雌生殖，即希腊语中的处女诞生。每一个原创的想法都不可能是完全原创的。这两个文明肯定是在交流思想中产生的，而且完全有可能一些希腊的思想起源于埃及的习俗或思想方式的启发。然而，在没有任何特定知识的基础上，埃及人和希腊人是作为两个不同的思想流派发展起来的，国家、个人、政治、民主、道德和脱离神性的思想，仅举几例，都是希腊古典哲学的核心要义，但在埃及文化中没有任何生活表现。
The very word philosophy is Greek. Considering that and that I have never seen any kind of Egyptian philosophy to predate the scientifically proved and specified in time Greek ideas, I gather that there is no such possibility. Keep in mind that there is no parthenogenesis, Greek word for Virgin birth, in art generally. Every original idea is never entirely original. These two civilizations certainly came in exchange of ideas and it is entirely possible that some Greek ideas where in origin inspired by Egyptian customs or way of thought. However without basing this on any particular knowledge, Egyptians and Greeks developed as two different schools of thought and the ideas of state, person, politics, democracy, ethics and the detachment from the divine, just to name a few, are both of core importance to classic Greek philosophy but not present in the Egyptian culture in any expression of life.
哲学这个词是希腊语。考虑到这一点，以及我从未见过任何种类的埃及哲学能早于科学证明和具体时间的希腊思想，我认为不存在这种可能性。请记住，在艺术中一般不存在孤雌生殖，即希腊语中的处女诞生。每一个原创的想法都不可能是完全原创的。这两个文明肯定是在交流思想中产生的，而且完全有可能一些希腊的思想起源于埃及的习俗或思想方式的启发。然而，在没有任何特定知识的基础上，埃及人和希腊人是作为两个不同的思想流派发展起来的，国家、个人、政治、民主、道德和脱离神性的思想，仅举几例，都是希腊古典哲学的核心要义，但在埃及文化中没有任何生活表现。
Another point to suggest that is the welcome given to Alexander the Great when conquering Egypt. Alexander represented the Greek way of thinking being taught by Aristotelis student of Plato, was welcomed as son of Ammon Zeus a crossbreed of Greek Zeus and Egyptian Ammon. This suggests both the people's intimacy but also distinct difference.
另一个观点是，亚历山大大帝在征服埃及时受到的欢迎。亚历山大代表了柏拉图的学生亚里士多德所传授的希腊思维方式，他作为阿蒙-宙斯的儿子受到欢迎，而阿蒙是希腊宙斯和埃及阿蒙的杂交品种。这表明这两个民族的亲密关系，但也有明显的区别。
另一个观点是，亚历山大大帝在征服埃及时受到的欢迎。亚历山大代表了柏拉图的学生亚里士多德所传授的希腊思维方式，他作为阿蒙-宙斯的儿子受到欢迎，而阿蒙是希腊宙斯和埃及阿蒙的杂交品种。这表明这两个民族的亲密关系，但也有明显的区别。
Gbenga Adeola
I agree “steal" is too strong term, it was more of a vicious exploitation of intellectual property than anything.
The pythagoras theorem did not belong to Pythagoras, and he or nobody else cared to give the credit to the KM.Tic scientist.
There are numerous other instances as happened similar to the above.
Why is it that even now people still refuse to a give the people of KM.T their due credit.
我同意 "偷 "这个词太强烈了，这更像是对知识产权的恶性剥削。
毕达哥拉斯定理并不属于毕达哥拉斯，他或其他人都不关心把功劳归于埃及科学家。
类似于上述情况的例子还有很多。
为什么到现在人们仍然拒绝给埃及以应有的荣誉。
I agree “steal" is too strong term, it was more of a vicious exploitation of intellectual property than anything.
The pythagoras theorem did not belong to Pythagoras, and he or nobody else cared to give the credit to the KM.Tic scientist.
There are numerous other instances as happened similar to the above.
Why is it that even now people still refuse to a give the people of KM.T their due credit.
我同意 "偷 "这个词太强烈了，这更像是对知识产权的恶性剥削。
毕达哥拉斯定理并不属于毕达哥拉斯，他或其他人都不关心把功劳归于埃及科学家。
类似于上述情况的例子还有很多。
为什么到现在人们仍然拒绝给埃及以应有的荣誉。
The Greek civilization has passed. There is no sense in continually denying what obvious was a vicious exploitation.
Most people are not informed of the fact that nearly all the famous Greek academics visited Egypt for studying and other educational purposes.
Socrates admits in one of his books, “I studied philosophy and medicine in KM.T.”
Aristotle spent more than 20 years studying in KM.T.
Plato spent more than 10 years studying at Heliopolis in KM.T.
希腊文明已经过去了。不断地否认明显是恶性剥削的东西是没有意义的。
大多数人都不知道，几乎所有著名的希腊学者都到埃及学习和其他教育目的。
苏格拉底在他的一本书中承认，"我在埃及学习哲学和医学"。
亚里士多德花了20多年的时间在埃及学习。
柏拉图在埃及的赫利奥波利斯花了10多年时间学习。
Most people are not informed of the fact that nearly all the famous Greek academics visited Egypt for studying and other educational purposes.
Socrates admits in one of his books, “I studied philosophy and medicine in KM.T.”
Aristotle spent more than 20 years studying in KM.T.
Plato spent more than 10 years studying at Heliopolis in KM.T.
希腊文明已经过去了。不断地否认明显是恶性剥削的东西是没有意义的。
大多数人都不知道，几乎所有著名的希腊学者都到埃及学习和其他教育目的。
苏格拉底在他的一本书中承认，"我在埃及学习哲学和医学"。
亚里士多德花了20多年的时间在埃及学习。
柏拉图在埃及的赫利奥波利斯花了10多年时间学习。
History is best served with accuracy and fairness.
To suggest that the Greek civilization was due to some kind of “ Greek Miracle” is an outrage and is wrong.
All great civilization are often the influence of older ones, Greek was no exception.
At first they used to pay tuition fees to the KM.Tic scientist, later on the methods they used in gaining such knowledge was (is) questionable.
历史最好是准确和公平的。
认为希腊文明是由于某种 "希腊奇迹 "的说法是一种侮辱，是错误的。
所有伟大的文明往往都是受旧文明的影响，希腊也不例外。
起初，他们曾向埃及的科学家支付学费，后来他们在获得这些知识时使用的方法是（现在）值得怀疑的。
To suggest that the Greek civilization was due to some kind of “ Greek Miracle” is an outrage and is wrong.
All great civilization are often the influence of older ones, Greek was no exception.
At first they used to pay tuition fees to the KM.Tic scientist, later on the methods they used in gaining such knowledge was (is) questionable.
历史最好是准确和公平的。
认为希腊文明是由于某种 "希腊奇迹 "的说法是一种侮辱，是错误的。
所有伟大的文明往往都是受旧文明的影响，希腊也不例外。
起初，他们曾向埃及的科学家支付学费，后来他们在获得这些知识时使用的方法是（现在）值得怀疑的。
Andrew Baird
No it didn't.
Greek philosophers and intellectuals certainly thought highly of the Egyptians and gained a great deal of knowledge from them in certain fields as has been described.
But they didn't steal anything.
Note that Egypt's reputation and fame as a place of knowledge grew as a result of the rise of Greek philosophy, due to the mutually beneficial exchange of ideas.
不，他们没有窃取任何东西。希腊的哲学家和知识分子确实很尊重埃及人，从某些领域中也获得了很多知识，这点是已经有所描述的。但他们并没有窃取任何东西。需要指出的是，随着希腊哲学的兴起，埃及作为知识之地的声誉和声望也因相互有益的思想交流而逐渐增长。
No it didn't.
Greek philosophers and intellectuals certainly thought highly of the Egyptians and gained a great deal of knowledge from them in certain fields as has been described.
But they didn't steal anything.
Note that Egypt's reputation and fame as a place of knowledge grew as a result of the rise of Greek philosophy, due to the mutually beneficial exchange of ideas.
不，他们没有窃取任何东西。希腊的哲学家和知识分子确实很尊重埃及人，从某些领域中也获得了很多知识，这点是已经有所描述的。但他们并没有窃取任何东西。需要指出的是，随着希腊哲学的兴起，埃及作为知识之地的声誉和声望也因相互有益的思想交流而逐渐增长。
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