调查发现，英国皇家空军为了促进多样性，违法歧视白人男性新兵
正文翻译
新闻：
Royal Air Force unlawfully discriminated against white male recruits in bid to boost diversity, inquiry finds
调查发现，英国皇家空军为了促进多样性，违法歧视白人男性新兵
调查发现，英国皇家空军为了促进多样性，违法歧视白人男性新兵
新闻：
The Royal Air Force unlawfully discriminated against white men in a recruitment drive aimed at boosting diversity, an official inquiry has found.
一项官方调查发现，英国皇家空军在招募新兵时非法歧视白人男性，以促进多样性。
一项官方调查发现，英国皇家空军在招募新兵时非法歧视白人男性，以促进多样性。
Air Chief Marshal Sir Richard Knighton, the new head of the RAF, said he "apologised unreservedly" to all those affected, including the former head of recruitment who was forced to resign rather than implement an order she believed - correctly - to breach equality legislation.
英国皇家空军新任司令、空军上将理查德·奈特顿爵士表示，他“毫无保留地向所有受影响的人道歉”，包括前征兵负责人，她被迫辞职，而不肯执行她认为确实违反平等立法的命令。
英国皇家空军新任司令、空军上将理查德·奈特顿爵士表示，他“毫无保留地向所有受影响的人道歉”，包括前征兵负责人，她被迫辞职，而不肯执行她认为确实违反平等立法的命令。
Despite the damning findings, the chief of the air staff said that none of the RAF's senior leadership, including his predecessor Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, on whose watch this happened, would face any kind of sanction.
尽管调查结果令人震惊，但空军参谋长表示，英国皇家空军的任何高级领导层，包括他的前任空军上将迈克·威斯顿爵士，都不会受到任何制裁。
尽管调查结果令人震惊，但空军参谋长表示，英国皇家空军的任何高级领导层，包括他的前任空军上将迈克·威斯顿爵士，都不会受到任何制裁。
Instead, he blamed the debacle on legal advice that incorrectly said a push in 2020 and 2021 to fast-track ethnic minority and female recruits into training slots was positive action - which is a legal way to improve diversity - when it was actually positive discrimination, which is unlawful.
相反，他将这次失败归咎于法律建议，这些建议错误地将2020年和2021年推动少数民族和女性新兵快速进入培训岗位的努力称为积极行动——这是提高多样性的合法方式——但实际上是积极的歧视，这是非法的。
相反，他将这次失败归咎于法律建议，这些建议错误地将2020年和2021年推动少数民族和女性新兵快速进入培训岗位的努力称为积极行动——这是提高多样性的合法方式——但实际上是积极的歧视，这是非法的。
"We accept that some men were discriminated against," Air Chief Marshal Knighton said.
“我们承认一些男性受到歧视的事实，”空军上将奈特顿说。
“我们承认一些男性受到歧视的事实，”空军上将奈特顿说。
Thirty-one men have already been identified as having missed out on a potential £5,000 "golden handshake" to start cyber roles in the RAF.
31名男子已经被确认错过了在英国皇家空军担任网络人员的潜在的5000英镑的“黄金握手”。
31名男子已经被确认错过了在英国皇家空军担任网络人员的潜在的5000英镑的“黄金握手”。
As first revealed by Sky News, the RAF is compensating each of these individuals.
正如《天空新闻》最先披露的那样，英国皇家空军正在对这些人进行补偿。
正如《天空新闻》最先披露的那样，英国皇家空军正在对这些人进行补偿。
Air Chief Marshal Knighton acknowledged that there could be more cases and said that the RAF would compensate anyone found to have suffered discrimination.
空军上将奈特顿承认可能会有更多的案例，并表示英国皇家空军将赔偿任何被发现遭受歧视的人。
空军上将奈特顿承认可能会有更多的案例，并表示英国皇家空军将赔偿任何被发现遭受歧视的人。
Speaking to reporters in his first media briefing in his new post, he said: "I am sure you are going to say, who is responsible, who are you going to fire as a consequence of this?
他在上任后的第一次媒体吹风会上对记者说：“我相信你会问，谁应该对此负责，你会因此解雇谁？
他在上任后的第一次媒体吹风会上对记者说：“我相信你会问，谁应该对此负责，你会因此解雇谁？
"The report doesn't single out individuals or recommend disciplinary or administrative action. My focus as the chief is to make sure we learn the lessons from this and we absolutely do not repeat these mistakes."
“但报告没有单独针对个人，也没有建议采取纪律或行政措施。作为负责人，我的重点是确保我们从中吸取教训，绝不重蹈覆辙。”
“但报告没有单独针对个人，也没有建议采取纪律或行政措施。作为负责人，我的重点是确保我们从中吸取教训，绝不重蹈覆辙。”
Wallace concerned by 'significant error'
华莱士担心“重大错误”
华莱士担心“重大错误”
Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, described what happened as a "significant error" and a "cause for regret" for the RAF.
英国国防大臣本·华莱士称，这是一个“重大错误”，是英国皇家空军“后悔的理由”。
英国国防大臣本·华莱士称，这是一个“重大错误”，是英国皇家空军“后悔的理由”。
But he insisted that entry standards were never lowered - as had been claimed by insiders and reported by Sky News.
但他坚持认为，入伍标准从未降低——正如内部人士和《天空新闻》所报道的那样。
但他坚持认为，入伍标准从未降低——正如内部人士和《天空新闻》所报道的那样。
Yet he said the treatment of Group Captain Lizzy Nicholl, the then head of recruitment who raised the alarm about the unlawful activity and ended up losing her career, needed to be "looked at considerably".
然而，他表示，需要“认真审视”当时的招聘主管莉兹·尼科尔上校的处理方式。尼科尔对这一违法行为发出了警告，最终丢掉了自己的职业生涯。
然而，他表示，需要“认真审视”当时的招聘主管莉兹·尼科尔上校的处理方式。尼科尔对这一违法行为发出了警告，最终丢掉了自己的职业生涯。
He said scrutiny was needed of "why she was ignored, why indeed she was put under that pressure. And I don't want to see anyone put under pressure to do something like what we've seen in the RAF".
他说，需要审查“为什么她被无视了，为什么她确实受到了那种压力。我不希望看到任何人迫于压力去做我们在英国皇家空军身上看到的事情。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
他说，需要审查“为什么她被无视了，为什么她确实受到了那种压力。我不希望看到任何人迫于压力去做我们在英国皇家空军身上看到的事情。”
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The admission marks a stunning U-turn by the RAF on a scandal first exposed last August by Sky News when it was revealed that Group Captain Nicholl had resigned after refusing to carry out an order to discriminate against white men.
这一承认标志着英国皇家空军对一桩丑闻的态度发生了惊人的180度大转弯。去年8月，《天空新闻》首次曝光了尼科尔上校因拒绝执行歧视白人男子的命令而辞职的丑闻。
这一承认标志着英国皇家空军对一桩丑闻的态度发生了惊人的180度大转弯。去年8月，《天空新闻》首次曝光了尼科尔上校因拒绝执行歧视白人男子的命令而辞职的丑闻。
She was put into this position after her chain of command, under Air Vice Marshal Maria Byford, who reported to Air Chief Marshal Wigston, insisted that the order was to be carried out despite Group Captain Nicholl saying she had received new legal advice that it was unlawful.
在她的指挥条线上的空军中将玛丽亚·拜福德向空军上将威斯顿报告，坚持要执行这一命令之后（尽管尼科尔上校说她收到了新的法律建议，认为这是违法的），她受到了如此对待。
在她的指挥条线上的空军中将玛丽亚·拜福德向空军上将威斯顿报告，坚持要执行这一命令之后（尽管尼科尔上校说她收到了新的法律建议，认为这是违法的），她受到了如此对待。
Only last February, in evidence to parliament, Air Chief Marshal Wigston assured MPs that there was no unlawful discrimination against white men.
就在去年2月，空军上将威斯顿在向议会提交证据时向议员们保证，不存在针对白人男性的非法歧视。
就在去年2月，空军上将威斯顿在向议会提交证据时向议员们保证，不存在针对白人男性的非法歧视。
'Uncomfortable reading'
“令人不快的阅读”
“令人不快的阅读”
A 72-page report - the result of a non-statutory inquiry ordered by Air Chief Marshal Wigston in the wake of the furore - found that the then head of recruitment had been right.
一份长达72页的报告——由空军上将威斯顿下令进行的一项非法定调查的结果——发现当时的征兵主管是正确的。
一份长达72页的报告——由空军上将威斯顿下令进行的一项非法定调查的结果——发现当时的征兵主管是正确的。
It also criticised senior leaders for not relying on reliable forecasts when setting ambitious targets to increase the ratio of women and ethnic minority recruits.
报告还批评高层领导人在制定提高女性和少数民族新兵比例的宏伟目标时，没有基于可靠的预测。
报告还批评高层领导人在制定提高女性和少数民族新兵比例的宏伟目标时，没有基于可靠的预测。
Air Chief Marshal Knighton admitted that the report made "pretty uncomfortable reading".
空军上将奈特顿承认，这份报告“读起来相当令人不快”。
空军上将奈特顿承认，这份报告“读起来相当令人不快”。
The report sought to find out what happened in the lead up to Group Captain Nicholl's resignation.
该报告试图找出导致尼科尔上校辞职的原因。
该报告试图找出导致尼科尔上校辞职的原因。
It also looked into allegations by the officer that she was the victim of institutional bullying because she had been forced to chase impossible diversity targets.
该报告还调查了这名军官的指控，她称自己是机构欺凌的受害者，因为她被逼追求不可能实现的多元化目标。
该报告还调查了这名军官的指控，她称自己是机构欺凌的受害者，因为她被逼追求不可能实现的多元化目标。
The report cleared the RAF of the bullying allegations but concluded that Group Captain Nicholl had been right to call out the unlawful recruitment practices.
该报告澄清了英国皇家空军的欺凌指控，但得出的结论是，尼科尔上校指出招募行为违法是正确的。
该报告澄清了英国皇家空军的欺凌指控，但得出的结论是，尼科尔上校指出招募行为违法是正确的。
Diversity goal led to impossible targets
多样性的目标导致了不可能实现的目标
多样性的目标导致了不可能实现的目标
The whole affair is frxd by an ambition set by Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston to significantly improve the RAF's diversity - a defining goal of his tenure.
整个事件的框架是空军上将迈克·威斯顿爵士设定的一个雄心，即大幅提高英国皇家空军的多样性——这是他任期内的一个明确目标。
整个事件的框架是空军上将迈克·威斯顿爵士设定的一个雄心，即大幅提高英国皇家空军的多样性——这是他任期内的一个明确目标。
But this was translated down the chain of command into impossible recruitment targets.
但这在指挥系统中被转变成了不可能实现的招募目标。
但这在指挥系统中被转变成了不可能实现的招募目标。
Sky News even revealed that white men seeking to join the Royal Air Force had been described as "useless white male pilots" in leaked emails that exposed the pressure placed on recruitment officers to improve diversity.
《天空新闻》甚至透露，在被泄露的电子邮件中，寻求加入皇家空军的白人男性被描述为“无用的白人男性飞行员”，这些邮件暴露了招募军官在提高多样性方面所面临的压力。
《天空新闻》甚至透露，在被泄露的电子邮件中，寻求加入皇家空军的白人男性被描述为“无用的白人男性飞行员”，这些邮件暴露了招募军官在提高多样性方面所面临的压力。
A number of sextion boards to place new recruits on courses - a crucial part of maintaining the fighting strength of the RAF - were also cancelled if they did not include women or ethnic minorities, according to the messages.
据消息称，如果不包括女性或少数民族成员，那么一些为新成员安排课程（这些课程是保持英国皇家空军战斗力的关键部分）的选拔委员会也将被取消。
据消息称，如果不包括女性或少数民族成员，那么一些为新成员安排课程（这些课程是保持英国皇家空军战斗力的关键部分）的选拔委员会也将被取消。
The unlawful activity happened in that climate under a previous head of recruitment before Group Captain Nicholl took up her role in March 2021.
在尼科尔上校于2021年3月接任之前，违法招募行为是在前任负责人的领导下发生的。
在尼科尔上校于2021年3月接任之前，违法招募行为是在前任负责人的领导下发生的。
In the recruitment year to March 2020 and the year to March 2021, a total of 161 ethnic minority and female recruits were "pulled forward" onto initial training ahead of white men.
在截至2020年3月的招聘年度和截至2021年3月的招聘年度，共有161名少数民族和女性新兵被“提前”到白人男性之前接受初步培训。
在截至2020年3月的招聘年度和截至2021年3月的招聘年度，共有161名少数民族和女性新兵被“提前”到白人男性之前接受初步培训。
"We found that concerns were raised at the time by R&S [recruitment and sextion] staff but that those who led the initiatives believed that they were 'pushing the boundaries' of positive action rather than acting unlawfully," the report said.
报告称：“我们发现，当时R&S（招募和选拔）工作人员提出了担忧，但那些领导这些举措的人认为，他们只是在‘突破积极行动的界限’，而不是在违法行动。”
报告称：“我们发现，当时R&S（招募和选拔）工作人员提出了担忧，但那些领导这些举措的人认为，他们只是在‘突破积极行动的界限’，而不是在违法行动。”
Group Captain Nicholl, however, sought new legal advice in May and June 2022 that clearly said these activities were "contrary to the Equality Act 2010, which provided reasonable justification for the Former Group Captain R&S to state that acts of positive discrimination had taken place in RY20/21 [recruitment year 2020-21]".
然而，尼科尔上校在2022年5月和6月寻求新的法律建议，明确表示这些活动“违反了2010年平等法案，该法案为该名前招募和选拔上校声称在20/21年度（2020-21募兵年）发生了积极的歧视行为提供了合理的理由”。
然而，尼科尔上校在2022年5月和6月寻求新的法律建议，明确表示这些活动“违反了2010年平等法案，该法案为该名前招募和选拔上校声称在20/21年度（2020-21募兵年）发生了积极的歧视行为提供了合理的理由”。
Despite this advice, she was still under pressure to prioritise women and ethnic minorities ahead of white men.
尽管提出了这些建议，她仍然面临着优先考虑女性和少数民族而不是白人男性的压力。
尽管提出了这些建议，她仍然面临着优先考虑女性和少数民族而不是白人男性的压力。
The report described how this advice was "either not seen or understood" by the most senior echelons of the RAF - two-star officers and above.
报告描述了这一建议是如何被英国皇家空军的最高阶层——两星及以上将官——“无视或不被理解”的。
报告描述了这一建议是如何被英国皇家空军的最高阶层——两星及以上将官——“无视或不被理解”的。
There was also resistance from the top to the challenge that Group Captain Nicholl made.
尼科尔上校的质疑也遭到了高层的抵制
尼科尔上校的质疑也遭到了高层的抵制
The report said: "We found that the chain of command's reaction to the former Group Capt R&S was overly defensive and not properly considered whether she might have been justified in what she said regarding previous acts of positive discrimination or the legality of what she was asked to do; and that insufficient effort had been made to determine the facts."
报告称：“我们发现，指挥系统对该名前招募和选拔上校的反应过于自卫，没有适当考虑她之前所说的积极歧视行为是否合理，或者她被要求做的事情是否合法；而且没有做出足够的努力来确定事实。”
报告称：“我们发现，指挥系统对该名前招募和选拔上校的反应过于自卫，没有适当考虑她之前所说的积极歧视行为是否合理，或者她被要求做的事情是否合法；而且没有做出足够的努力来确定事实。”
Former RAF boss should 'correct the record'
前英国皇家空军老大应当“纠正记录”
前英国皇家空军老大应当“纠正记录”
Tobias Ellwood, the chair of the defence sext committee, said he and his colleagues would be considering whether to ask the previous chief of the air staff to correct the record after he previously denied any unlawful discrimination had taken place.
国防特别委员会主席托比亚斯·埃尔伍德表示，他和他的同事们将考虑是否要求前空军参谋长纠正这一记录，此前他曾否认存在任何非法歧视。
国防特别委员会主席托比亚斯·埃尔伍德表示，他和他的同事们将考虑是否要求前空军参谋长纠正这一记录，此前他曾否认存在任何非法歧视。
"I do hope that Mike Wigston, now conveniently retired, recognises how perhaps he misled parliament in coming in front of our committee and should now take this opportunity to correct the record," Mr Ellwood said.
埃尔伍德表示：“我确实希望，现已方便地退役的迈克·威斯顿认识到，也许他是怎么来到我们的委员会面前忽悠了议会的，并且现在应该借此机会纠正这个错误。
埃尔伍德表示：“我确实希望，现已方便地退役的迈克·威斯顿认识到，也许他是怎么来到我们的委员会面前忽悠了议会的，并且现在应该借此机会纠正这个错误。
"Discrimination was taking place and that was illegal."
“歧视那时就已经发生了，这是违法的。”
“歧视那时就已经发生了，这是违法的。”
He also said those responsible for the unlawful activity should be held to account.
他还表示，应该追究那些对违法行为负责的人的责任。
他还表示，应该追究那些对违法行为负责的人的责任。
"You simply cannot have a report such as this which outlines the systemic, deliberate failures that were being done, a pursuance of something that was illegal…. You cannot simply gloss over or even retire from the RAF without comment being made, without some form of reprimand occurring to ensure this doesn't happen again."
“你不可能满意这样一份报告，它（仅仅）概述了正在发生的系统性、故意的失败，以及对违法行为的追求（却不追责）……你不能简单地掩饰，甚至从英国皇家空军退役了而不作出评论，不进行某种形式的谴责，以确保这种情况不会再次发生。”
“你不可能满意这样一份报告，它（仅仅）概述了正在发生的系统性、故意的失败，以及对违法行为的追求（却不追责）……你不能简单地掩饰，甚至从英国皇家空军退役了而不作出评论，不进行某种形式的谴责，以确保这种情况不会再次发生。”
James Heappey, the armed forces minister, told Sky News last year that any evidence of positive discrimination would be investigated and would not be tolerated.
英国武装部大臣詹姆斯·希皮去年对《天空新闻》表示，任何积极歧视的证据都将受到调查，而且是不能容忍的。
英国武装部大臣詹姆斯·希皮去年对《天空新闻》表示，任何积极歧视的证据都将受到调查，而且是不能容忍的。
评论翻译
TheSwedishSwingBox
I feel uncomfortable about diversity recruitment. White men are the majority of men in this country - preventing them from being able to make a living in their own country is wild, it makes no sense and encourages I'll feelings toward a community.
I am part of a minority community, and I feel uncomfortable about these. Best Get rid of racist staff and hire on merit.
That way the racists themselves can't use their position to create a institutional racism issue.
Sometimes, I feel as if these policies are indirectly enforced to stir up division amongst groups.
我对多元化招募感到不爽。白人男性在这个国家占大多数——阻止他们在自己的国家谋生是疯狂的，这是没有道理的，而且会刺激我对某个群体的情感。
我是少数族裔社区的一员，对此我感到不舒服。最好摆脱有种族歧视的成员，按照能力大小来招募。
这样一来，种族主义者自己就无法利用他们的身份来制造一个制度性的种族主义问题了。
有时，我觉得这些政策似乎是在间接地挑起群体之间的分裂。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I feel uncomfortable about diversity recruitment. White men are the majority of men in this country - preventing them from being able to make a living in their own country is wild, it makes no sense and encourages I'll feelings toward a community.
I am part of a minority community, and I feel uncomfortable about these. Best Get rid of racist staff and hire on merit.
That way the racists themselves can't use their position to create a institutional racism issue.
Sometimes, I feel as if these policies are indirectly enforced to stir up division amongst groups.
我对多元化招募感到不爽。白人男性在这个国家占大多数——阻止他们在自己的国家谋生是疯狂的，这是没有道理的，而且会刺激我对某个群体的情感。
我是少数族裔社区的一员，对此我感到不舒服。最好摆脱有种族歧视的成员，按照能力大小来招募。
这样一来，种族主义者自己就无法利用他们的身份来制造一个制度性的种族主义问题了。
有时，我觉得这些政策似乎是在间接地挑起群体之间的分裂。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
slaitaar
The fact is by setting quotas or diversity %, you're just patronising and disabling the very groups yiure attempting to help, while doing massive harm to the country overall.
Look at the % of media representation in UK TV channels now. If you'd guessed that the British population was represented fairly, then there are times when less than 50% of the population is white and/or straight.
事实是，通过设定配额或多样性百分比，你只是在傲慢地对待和禁用你试图帮助的群体，同时对整个国家造成巨大伤害。
看看现在英国电视频道的媒体比例吧。如果你认为英国人口是被公平代表的，那么有时只有不到50%的人口是白人和/或异性恋。（译注：指少数群体的代表比例过高）
The fact is by setting quotas or diversity %, you're just patronising and disabling the very groups yiure attempting to help, while doing massive harm to the country overall.
Look at the % of media representation in UK TV channels now. If you'd guessed that the British population was represented fairly, then there are times when less than 50% of the population is white and/or straight.
事实是，通过设定配额或多样性百分比，你只是在傲慢地对待和禁用你试图帮助的群体，同时对整个国家造成巨大伤害。
看看现在英国电视频道的媒体比例吧。如果你认为英国人口是被公平代表的，那么有时只有不到50%的人口是白人和/或异性恋。（译注：指少数群体的代表比例过高）
Longirl
This has been going on for decades in this country. My ex was a fireman in the early 2000s and they were following this exact pattern for recruitment. I also remember going with a friend to the council offices after he became homeless and their exact words were ‘I’m sorry but we can’t help young healthy British men be rehomed’. Poor guy was only 18, this would have happened around 1998.
这种情况在这个国家已经持续了几十年。我的前夫在21世纪初是一名消防员，他们的招募方式就是这样的。我还记得在一个朋友无家可归后，我和他一起去了议会办公室，他们的原话是“很抱歉，我们无法帮助年轻健康的英国人被重新安置。”那个可怜的家伙才18岁，这应该发生在1998年左右。
This has been going on for decades in this country. My ex was a fireman in the early 2000s and they were following this exact pattern for recruitment. I also remember going with a friend to the council offices after he became homeless and their exact words were ‘I’m sorry but we can’t help young healthy British men be rehomed’. Poor guy was only 18, this would have happened around 1998.
这种情况在这个国家已经持续了几十年。我的前夫在21世纪初是一名消防员，他们的招募方式就是这样的。我还记得在一个朋友无家可归后，我和他一起去了议会办公室，他们的原话是“很抱歉，我们无法帮助年轻健康的英国人被重新安置。”那个可怜的家伙才18岁，这应该发生在1998年左右。
RisHorro544
Stuff like this is why far-right sentiment is growing in the UK.
For years the left has screamed that discrimination against white men is a "far right racist conspiracy theory", and then of course it turns out to be true, therefore making the far right look credible and the left look like naive idiots at best and malicious liars at worst.
像这样的事情就是极右翼情绪在英国蔓延的原因。
多年来，左派一直尖叫着“对白人男性的歧视是一种‘极右翼种族主义阴谋论’”，当然，事实证明这是真的，因此，极右翼看起来可信，左派看起来像天真的白痴（往坏了讲是恶意的骗子）。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Stuff like this is why far-right sentiment is growing in the UK.
For years the left has screamed that discrimination against white men is a "far right racist conspiracy theory", and then of course it turns out to be true, therefore making the far right look credible and the left look like naive idiots at best and malicious liars at worst.
像这样的事情就是极右翼情绪在英国蔓延的原因。
多年来，左派一直尖叫着“对白人男性的歧视是一种‘极右翼种族主义阴谋论’”，当然，事实证明这是真的，因此，极右翼看起来可信，左派看起来像天真的白痴（往坏了讲是恶意的骗子）。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
YesIAmRightWingmillenial home owner...
I mean I've seen companies have been doing this seen I entered the workforce in 2014.
It was done openly and advertised publicly.
The people who do it think their doing a good thing.
I remember arguing with a guy because in my sector there aren't many Asians.
He just couldn't understand why I didn't want more Asians in the sector.
But he also couldn't understand that I didn't give a shit about the number of Asians in X sector and it wouldn't make any real difference
我想说，自从我2014年进入职场以来，我就看到很多公司一直在这么做。
这是公开进行的，并公开做了广告。
干这事的人认为他们是在做一件好事。
我记得我和一个人吵过架，因为我所在的部门没有多少亚洲裔。
他就是不明白为什么我不想让更多的亚洲裔进入这个行业。
但他也不能理解，我其实根本不在乎X部门有多少亚洲裔，并且有多少亚洲裔也不会造成什么真正的区别
I mean I've seen companies have been doing this seen I entered the workforce in 2014.
It was done openly and advertised publicly.
The people who do it think their doing a good thing.
I remember arguing with a guy because in my sector there aren't many Asians.
He just couldn't understand why I didn't want more Asians in the sector.
But he also couldn't understand that I didn't give a shit about the number of Asians in X sector and it wouldn't make any real difference
我想说，自从我2014年进入职场以来，我就看到很多公司一直在这么做。
这是公开进行的，并公开做了广告。
干这事的人认为他们是在做一件好事。
我记得我和一个人吵过架，因为我所在的部门没有多少亚洲裔。
他就是不明白为什么我不想让更多的亚洲裔进入这个行业。
但他也不能理解，我其实根本不在乎X部门有多少亚洲裔，并且有多少亚洲裔也不会造成什么真正的区别
Ayearinbooks
I think two really important points that some people are missing below.
First, Goodharts Law, 'When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure'. It's not unreasonable to ask questions about race/sex disparities but when you set a target, even aside from unfairness and illegality, it's likely to have perverse consequences. So in the US affirmative action case - fewer than 50% of the black students who get into elite universities are born of black US parents (i.e. the group with the big structural disadvantage people are concerned about). The approach instead smooths the way e.g. recent Nigerian immigrants who don't share that background.
Second, in these discussions there's some naivety about what's 'allowed' and how relevant that is. People respond to incentives bounded only somewhat by rules (whether due to principle or fear of getting caught). So it's illegal to discriminate against a 30 year old woman on the grounds she might take maternity leave - but it's usually really hard to prove and if you're a small business owner incentivises by economic self interest you mighy. Similarly it's illegal to choose a worse qualified person because of their race - but it's usually really hard to prove.
If you are seriously concerned to stop these forms of discrimination, pretty much the only way is to remove the incentive (so in first case govt pays full cost of parental leave and/or mandates men and women get samr amount, which I think is done in some Scandinavian countries; in second case not using crude 'pay gaps' etc that drive perverse incentives)
我认为有些人忽略了两个非常重要的点。
首先是古德哈特定律，“当一项措施成为目标时，它就不再是一项好措施了”。提出关于种族/性别差异的问题并不是不合理的，但当你设定了一个目标时，即使不考虑不公平和不合法，也很可能产生反常的后果。因此，在美国平权法案的案例中，进入精英大学的黑人学生中，只有不到50%的人出生于美国黑人父母（即人们所关注的具有巨大结构性劣势的群体）。相反，这种方法为那些没有相同背景的尼日利亚新移民铺平了道路。
其次，在这些讨论中，关于什么是“允许的”以及它的相关性有些天真。人们对激励的反应只在一定程度上受到规则的限制（无论是出于原则还是害怕被抓到）。因此，以一个30岁的女人“可能休产假”为由歧视她是非法的——但这通常很难证明，如果你是一个小企业主，你可能会受到经济利益的激励。同样，因为种族而选择资质较差的人也是违法的——但这通常很难证明。
如果你真的想阻止这些形式的歧视，唯一的方法就是消除这种激励（所以在第一种情况下，政府支付育儿假的全部费用和/或规定男性和女性获得相同的产假，我认为在一些斯堪的纳维亚国家就是这样做的；第二种情况是，不要使用粗犷的“薪酬差距”等等，这会带来不正当的激励。）
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I think two really important points that some people are missing below.
First, Goodharts Law, 'When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure'. It's not unreasonable to ask questions about race/sex disparities but when you set a target, even aside from unfairness and illegality, it's likely to have perverse consequences. So in the US affirmative action case - fewer than 50% of the black students who get into elite universities are born of black US parents (i.e. the group with the big structural disadvantage people are concerned about). The approach instead smooths the way e.g. recent Nigerian immigrants who don't share that background.
Second, in these discussions there's some naivety about what's 'allowed' and how relevant that is. People respond to incentives bounded only somewhat by rules (whether due to principle or fear of getting caught). So it's illegal to discriminate against a 30 year old woman on the grounds she might take maternity leave - but it's usually really hard to prove and if you're a small business owner incentivises by economic self interest you mighy. Similarly it's illegal to choose a worse qualified person because of their race - but it's usually really hard to prove.
If you are seriously concerned to stop these forms of discrimination, pretty much the only way is to remove the incentive (so in first case govt pays full cost of parental leave and/or mandates men and women get samr amount, which I think is done in some Scandinavian countries; in second case not using crude 'pay gaps' etc that drive perverse incentives)
我认为有些人忽略了两个非常重要的点。
首先是古德哈特定律，“当一项措施成为目标时，它就不再是一项好措施了”。提出关于种族/性别差异的问题并不是不合理的，但当你设定了一个目标时，即使不考虑不公平和不合法，也很可能产生反常的后果。因此，在美国平权法案的案例中，进入精英大学的黑人学生中，只有不到50%的人出生于美国黑人父母（即人们所关注的具有巨大结构性劣势的群体）。相反，这种方法为那些没有相同背景的尼日利亚新移民铺平了道路。
其次，在这些讨论中，关于什么是“允许的”以及它的相关性有些天真。人们对激励的反应只在一定程度上受到规则的限制（无论是出于原则还是害怕被抓到）。因此，以一个30岁的女人“可能休产假”为由歧视她是非法的——但这通常很难证明，如果你是一个小企业主，你可能会受到经济利益的激励。同样，因为种族而选择资质较差的人也是违法的——但这通常很难证明。
如果你真的想阻止这些形式的歧视，唯一的方法就是消除这种激励（所以在第一种情况下，政府支付育儿假的全部费用和/或规定男性和女性获得相同的产假，我认为在一些斯堪的纳维亚国家就是这样做的；第二种情况是，不要使用粗犷的“薪酬差距”等等，这会带来不正当的激励。）
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
moreat10
Oh boy I can't wait for the idealogues to use this policy error as a justification for their hair brained personal beliefs they got from YouTube.
哦，天哪，我等不及理想主义者用这个政策错误来为他们从YouTube上得到的愚蠢的个人信仰辩护了。
Oh boy I can't wait for the idealogues to use this policy error as a justification for their hair brained personal beliefs they got from YouTube.
哦，天哪，我等不及理想主义者用这个政策错误来为他们从YouTube上得到的愚蠢的个人信仰辩护了。
DonAdzII
How many times is this story going to keep getting recycled?
So many more important problems to address, yet we’re obsessed with race relations.
This country is broken and to be frank we deserve it.
这个故事还会被重复讲多少次？
有那么多更重要的问题需要解决，而我们却痴迷于种族关系。
这个国家已经支离破碎，并且坦白说，我们活该。
How many times is this story going to keep getting recycled?
So many more important problems to address, yet we’re obsessed with race relations.
This country is broken and to be frank we deserve it.
这个故事还会被重复讲多少次？
有那么多更重要的问题需要解决，而我们却痴迷于种族关系。
这个国家已经支离破碎，并且坦白说，我们活该。
Person_of_EarthLocation: Irrelevant sate-seat
So many more important problems to address, yet we’re obsessed with race relations.
There is so much wrong with this sentence that I don't know where to begin.
Firstly, if you look at racism from the lenses of 'race relations', then you are looking at it completely wrong. Ethnic minorities are the victims of systemic racist societal structures, and thus are the victims. You wouldn't look at the justice system as 'victim-criminal relations', so why would you look at racism through the lens of 'race relations'?
Secondly, racism is a very serious issue. To claim that it isn't would imply that the rights of ethnic minorities don't matter as much as the rights of white people, which in itself is racist.
“有那么多更重要的问题需要解决，而我们却痴迷于种族关系”
这句话错得太多了，我都不知道从哪里开始纠正了。
首先，如果你从“种族关系”的角度来看待种族主义，那么你就完全错了。少数族裔是系统性种族主义社会结构的受害者，因此他们是受害者。既然你不会把司法系统看作“受害者与罪犯的关系”，那么你为什么要通过“种族关系”的视角来看待种族主义呢？
其次，种族主义是一个非常严重的问题。声称它不是，是在暗示少数族裔的权利不如白人的权利重要，而这本身就是种族主义。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
So many more important problems to address, yet we’re obsessed with race relations.
There is so much wrong with this sentence that I don't know where to begin.
Firstly, if you look at racism from the lenses of 'race relations', then you are looking at it completely wrong. Ethnic minorities are the victims of systemic racist societal structures, and thus are the victims. You wouldn't look at the justice system as 'victim-criminal relations', so why would you look at racism through the lens of 'race relations'?
Secondly, racism is a very serious issue. To claim that it isn't would imply that the rights of ethnic minorities don't matter as much as the rights of white people, which in itself is racist.
“有那么多更重要的问题需要解决，而我们却痴迷于种族关系”
这句话错得太多了，我都不知道从哪里开始纠正了。
首先，如果你从“种族关系”的角度来看待种族主义，那么你就完全错了。少数族裔是系统性种族主义社会结构的受害者，因此他们是受害者。既然你不会把司法系统看作“受害者与罪犯的关系”，那么你为什么要通过“种族关系”的视角来看待种族主义呢？
其次，种族主义是一个非常严重的问题。声称它不是，是在暗示少数族裔的权利不如白人的权利重要，而这本身就是种族主义。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
ChinDick
I can sort of understand applying positive discrimination to other jobs, like office work, public sector jobs etc, but doing it for the armed forces is bonkers.
It shouldn’t matter what race or gender you are when you’re job is defend the realm and potentially die in doing so. You want the best people who are willing to volunteer their lives.
It’s especially stupid to discriminate against the biggest talent pool available to the forces (white males), whom historically are exactly what the forces need. They’ve chastised the most likely recruits and it wouldn’t surprise me to see RAF recruitment numbers drop in the next few years
我有点理解将积极歧视应用于其他工作岗位，比如办公室工作、公共部门工作等等，但在军队中这样做是疯狂的。
当你的工作是保卫王国，并可能因此丧命时，你是什么种族或性别都不重要。你需要的是愿意献出自己生命的最优秀的人。
歧视军队最大的人才库（白人男性）是特别愚蠢的，从历史上看，他们正是军队所需要的。他们已经（通过报道中的违法行为）惩罚了最有可能的新兵，我不会惊讶地看到英国皇家空军的新兵数量在接下来的几年里下降
I can sort of understand applying positive discrimination to other jobs, like office work, public sector jobs etc, but doing it for the armed forces is bonkers.
It shouldn’t matter what race or gender you are when you’re job is defend the realm and potentially die in doing so. You want the best people who are willing to volunteer their lives.
It’s especially stupid to discriminate against the biggest talent pool available to the forces (white males), whom historically are exactly what the forces need. They’ve chastised the most likely recruits and it wouldn’t surprise me to see RAF recruitment numbers drop in the next few years
我有点理解将积极歧视应用于其他工作岗位，比如办公室工作、公共部门工作等等，但在军队中这样做是疯狂的。
当你的工作是保卫王国，并可能因此丧命时，你是什么种族或性别都不重要。你需要的是愿意献出自己生命的最优秀的人。
歧视军队最大的人才库（白人男性）是特别愚蠢的，从历史上看，他们正是军队所需要的。他们已经（通过报道中的违法行为）惩罚了最有可能的新兵，我不会惊讶地看到英国皇家空军的新兵数量在接下来的几年里下降
HettySwollocks
This is a major issue across all industries. I understand where it's coming from and it's commendable but now we're in a situation where white = bad. I've sat in board meeting hearing how we must hire people of X,Y, Z instead of the most appropriate candidate. I've seen it time and time again and it fucking infuriates me.
This woke bullshit needs to end
这是所有行业的一个主要问题。我明白这是怎么来的，这也是值得赞扬的，但现在我们的情况是，白人 = 坏。我曾在董事会上听到我们必须雇用某某人，某某人，某某人，而不是最合适的人选。我一次又一次地看到这种情况，这tmd激怒了我。
这扯淡的矫枉过正该结束了
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
This is a major issue across all industries. I understand where it's coming from and it's commendable but now we're in a situation where white = bad. I've sat in board meeting hearing how we must hire people of X,Y, Z instead of the most appropriate candidate. I've seen it time and time again and it fucking infuriates me.
This woke bullshit needs to end
这是所有行业的一个主要问题。我明白这是怎么来的，这也是值得赞扬的，但现在我们的情况是，白人 = 坏。我曾在董事会上听到我们必须雇用某某人，某某人，某某人，而不是最合适的人选。我一次又一次地看到这种情况，这tmd激怒了我。
这扯淡的矫枉过正该结束了
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
imshitatbjj
This exact thing happened to me 6 years ago when I applied for the police. I posted about it here on Reddit.
I was literally denied a job in the police because I wasn't from a BAME background. Disgusting.
I am glad this discrimination is being seen now for what it really is.
六年前当我申请当警察的时候，同样的事情也发生在我身上。我把经历贴在了红迪上。
我被拒绝了一份警察工作，因为我没有“面临种族歧视”的背景。真恶心。
我很高兴这种歧视现在被人们看出了它的本质。
This exact thing happened to me 6 years ago when I applied for the police. I posted about it here on Reddit.
I was literally denied a job in the police because I wasn't from a BAME background. Disgusting.
I am glad this discrimination is being seen now for what it really is.
六年前当我申请当警察的时候，同样的事情也发生在我身上。我把经历贴在了红迪上。
我被拒绝了一份警察工作，因为我没有“面临种族歧视”的背景。真恶心。
我很高兴这种歧视现在被人们看出了它的本质。
GeronimoSonjack
Who wants this? Who demands it? Where is this ridiculous concerted effort across society to advocate for racism against whites and sexism against men ultimately coming from?
谁想要这个？是谁要求的？这种荒谬的全社会共同倡导针对白人的种族主义和针对男性的性别歧视的努力到底是从哪里来的？
Who wants this? Who demands it? Where is this ridiculous concerted effort across society to advocate for racism against whites and sexism against men ultimately coming from?
谁想要这个？是谁要求的？这种荒谬的全社会共同倡导针对白人的种族主义和针对男性的性别歧视的努力到底是从哪里来的？
zwifter11
I can see why the RAF did this when they’re majority white male, unproportionate to society. And there’s literally no black or asian pilots.
I wouldn’t say it’s racism against whites. It’s ensuring the organisation reflects its society. It’s wrong to say no black or asian person could do the job, when they do for airlines.
我明白为什么英国皇家空军这样做，因为他们大部分是白人男性，与社会的种族比例不相符。而且根本没有黑人或亚裔飞行员。
我不会说这是对白人的种族歧视。它正在确保这个组织能反映社会的种族构成。当黑人或亚洲裔在为航空公司工作时，说他们不能胜任这份（空军飞行员）工作是错误的。
I can see why the RAF did this when they’re majority white male, unproportionate to society. And there’s literally no black or asian pilots.
I wouldn’t say it’s racism against whites. It’s ensuring the organisation reflects its society. It’s wrong to say no black or asian person could do the job, when they do for airlines.
我明白为什么英国皇家空军这样做，因为他们大部分是白人男性，与社会的种族比例不相符。而且根本没有黑人或亚裔飞行员。
我不会说这是对白人的种族歧视。它正在确保这个组织能反映社会的种族构成。当黑人或亚洲裔在为航空公司工作时，说他们不能胜任这份（空军飞行员）工作是错误的。
GeronimoSonjack
It's literally, unambiguously racism against whites. I don't know how anyone could sincerely look at this and claim otherwise.
毫无疑问，这就是针对白人的种族主义。我不知道怎么会有人真诚地看待这一点，却声称不是这样。
It's literally, unambiguously racism against whites. I don't know how anyone could sincerely look at this and claim otherwise.
毫无疑问，这就是针对白人的种族主义。我不知道怎么会有人真诚地看待这一点，却声称不是这样。
fudgedhobnobs
How’s the culture war going, lads?
文化战争打得怎么样了，伙计们？
How’s the culture war going, lads?
文化战争打得怎么样了，伙计们？
fatolddog
The most disadvantaged group in the UK are working class white men.
The UK doesn't have a race problem, it has a class problem.
英国最弱势的群体是白人工人阶级。
英国没有种族问题，有的是阶级问题。
The most disadvantaged group in the UK are working class white men.
The UK doesn't have a race problem, it has a class problem.
英国最弱势的群体是白人工人阶级。
英国没有种族问题，有的是阶级问题。
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