QA问答:古罗马人知道汉朝吗?AS回答:不仅相互知道,搞不好还干过架
2023-11-11 Aya Shawn 11254
正文翻译
Aya Shown
Knows Chinese

Of course, the ancient Romans knew about the existence of the Han Dynasty. On the contrary, the Han Dynasty also knew the existence of ancient Rome.
But these two countries are far apart, separated by the Parthia Empire and the Guishuang Empire.
So their mutual understanding is very limited, mostly through intermediaries.

当然,古罗马人知道汉朝的存在。相反,汉朝也知道古罗马的存在。
但这两个国家相距甚远,隔着安息帝国和贵霜帝国。
所以他们之间的了解非常有限,大多是通过中间人。

The Chinese call ancient Rome the "Great Qin"
The ancient Romans recorded China as the "Seris Kingdom"

中国人称古罗马为“大秦”
古罗马人将中国记为“塞力斯王国”

Among China's massive historical records, there are only three records about ancient Rome.
"Book of the Later Han Dynasty": In the ninth year of Yongyuan(98AD), Ban Chao sent Gan Ying to find Great Qin. He finally reached the edge of sea and wanted to go by boat, but the Parthia businessman told him: "The sea is very big, and it will take three months if the wind is favorable, and two years if the wind is headwind. It is very dangerous." Gan Ying gave up and returned to Chang'an.
"Book of the Later Han Dynasty": "In the ninth year of Yanxi(165AD), the Great Qin King Andun (Anthony) sent envoys to send ivory, rhinoceros horn, and tortoise shell. This was the first exchange between the two countries. The emperor felt that the things they sent were not precious. The country is not as powerful as it is said to be"
"Book of the Later Han Dynasty": "In the first year of Yongning (120AD), the king of Shan State sent someone to congratulate him again. This time there was a magician in the gift. The magician said that he came from the Great Qin in the west of sea"

在中国大量的历史记载中,关于古罗马的记载只三篇。
《后汉书》:永元九年(公元98年),班超派甘英去找大秦。他终于到了海边,想要乘船前往,安息商人却告诉他:“大海很大,顺风要三个月,逆风要两年,非常危险。” 甘英放弃,返回长安。
《后汉书》:“延熹九年(公元165年),大秦王安敦(安东尼)遣使送来象牙、犀牛角、龟甲,这是两国第一次交往。皇帝觉得他们送来的东西并不珍贵,这个国家并没有传说中那么强大。”
《后汉书》:“永宁元年(公元120年),掸王再次派人来贺,这次的礼物中有一个魔术师。魔术师说他来自海西大秦。

There are few books in ancient Rome, and there is only one record about China.
"Natural History" :"The country of Seris produces silk in the forest, which is famous in the word. Silk is grown on trees, taken out, wetted with water, and processed into silk. It is woven into brocade and trafficked to Rome. Women of rich and nobles cut clothes , brilliant and dazzling. The people of Seris are gentle, but they seldom contact with people, and they always wait for others to come to trade, and never take the initiative to sell."

古罗马的书籍很少,关于中国的记载也只有一篇。
《博物志》:“塞力斯国在森林中出产丝绸,闻名于世。丝绸长在树上,取出​​来,用水润湿,加工成丝绸,织成锦缎,贩运到罗马。富贵女人剪裁成衣服,光彩夺目,塞力斯人性格温和,但很少与人接触,总是等待别人前来交易,从不主动出卖。

There is even a war between the Eastern Han Empire and the Roman legions recorded in Chinese history books!
Of course, this record is not complete, and many of the contents are imagined and inferred by historians and cannot really be determined.

中国历史书上甚至还记载着东汉帝国与罗马军团之间的战争!
当然,这段记载并不完整,很多内容都是历史学家的想象和推断,无法真正确定。

Battle of Zhizhi City:

郅支城之战

In 36 BC, two generals, Chen Tang and Gan Yanshou, led a Han Empire cavalry into the desert to pursue the remnants of the Huns. The Zhizhi Chanyu of the Huns led the last force to flee westward. They fled into Zhizhi City in Kangju State. (Today's Zhambyl City, Zhambyl Oblast, southern Kazakhstan)
The armies of Chen Tang and Gan Yanshou surrounded the city, and their forwards met the troops guarding the city outside the city. The scouts were surprised to find that in addition to the Huns cavalry, there was a strange army guarding the city.

公元前36年,陈汤、甘延寿两位将军率领汉帝国骑兵进入沙漠追击匈奴残部。匈奴郅支单于率领最后一支部队向西逃亡。他们逃入康居国郅支城。(今哈萨克斯坦南部江布尔州江布尔市)
陈汤、甘延寿的军队包围了城池,前锋在城外与守城的军队相遇。侦察兵惊奇地发现,除了匈奴骑兵之外,还有一支奇怪的军队守卫着城池。

The "Book of Han" records what this army looked like: "More than a hundred infantrymen, forming a fish-scale formation behind the gate, were taught how to use troops."
It roughly means: This is an army of about 200 people, and they are entirely infantry. They lined up in a neat square formation, holding up shields, a structure like fish scales. They were actually teaching the Huns cavalry how to deploy defenses.
In the war between the Han Empire and the Huns, they had never encountered the Huns possessing infantry, let alone a phalanx. It was obvious that this small army was not Huns.

《汉书》记载了这支军队的样子:“步兵百余,呈夹门鱼鳞阵,讲习用兵”。
大致意思是:这是一支约200人的军队,而且全是步兵。他们排成整齐的方阵,举着盾牌,结构如鱼鳞。他们实际上是在教匈奴骑兵如何布置防御。
在汉帝国与匈奴的战争中,他们从未遇到过拥有步兵的匈奴军队,更不用说方阵了。显然,这支小军队并不是匈奴人。

After the battle began, the Huns cavalry first charged the Han army. General Chen Tang ordered the crossbowmen to attack from a distance. After the first round of attacks, the Huns' cavalry suffered hundreds of casualties and quickly retreated.
However, this infantry group of about 200 people did not retreat. They attacked the Han army in neat steps.

战斗开始后,匈奴骑兵首先向汉军发起冲锋。陈汤将军命令弓弩手远距离攻击。第一轮攻击后,匈奴骑兵伤亡数百人,迅速撤退。
然而,这支约200人的步兵团并没有撤退。他们步伐整齐地攻击汉军。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


The Han Dynasty army found it strange, so they sent cavalry to attack around this square formation, using cavalry and archery tactics to attack. The shields of this infantry could not protect against all arrows, and the number was too disparate. They were quickly defeated, and the surviving soldiers were captured by General Chen Tang.
Later, there are legends that these soldiers were sent back to the Han Dynasty, but official historical records state that they were given to some kings in the Western Regions as slaves.

汉朝军队觉得奇怪,就派骑兵围着这个方阵进攻,采用骑射的战术来攻击。这支步兵的盾牌并不能抵挡所有的箭矢,而且人数也相差太大。他们很快被击败,幸存的士兵被陈汤将军俘虏。
后来有传说这些士兵被送回汉朝,但官方史书记载,他们是被送给西域的一些国王当奴隶去了。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Some historians believe that the descxtion of this army in historical documents is very similar to the Roman legions. They speculated that this was a small unit captured during the Roman legion's eastern expedition. They moved to Kazakhstan and became mercenaries of Kang Juguo. Finally, they encountered the army of the Han Empire and this battle took place.

有历史学家认为,历史文献中对这支军队的描述与罗马军团非常相似。他们推测这是罗马军团东征时失散的一小支部队。他们移居哈萨克斯坦,成为康居国的雇佣兵。最后,他们遇到了汉帝国的军队,发生了这场战斗。

评论翻译
Profile photo for Sergio Prats
Sergio Prats
· Aug 30
It is interesting the descxtion Romans do about Chinese.

罗马人对中国人的描述很有趣。
Profile photo for 孙悟空
孙悟空

· Aug 29
the romans luuuve Chinese silk

罗马人超爱中国丝绸

Profile photo for Wilbert Chua
Wilbert Chua
· Aug 29
How do different ancient civilizations communicate with each other given that they have different languages?

不同的古代文明拥有不同的语言,如何相互交流?

Profile photo for Aya Shawn
Aya Shawn
· Aug 30
Some residents on the frontier, and traders traveling between two civilizations, will always learn the language of both civilizations.
Some smart people among them started a new job: translator。

边境上的一些居民以及在两个文明之间旅行的商人一般都会学习两个文明的语言。
其中一些聪明人开始了新的工作:翻译。

Toming Simaraja
· Sep 21
I think that day the translator had good money than now

我觉得那时候的翻译,比现在好挣钱多了

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La De Da
· Oct 31
That war not on the contrary.

那场战斗的事实并非如此。

Profile photo for Huayi Chu
Huayi Chu
· 15h
That was the first thing I noticed too.I saw on Tiktok that the Chinese have even found the descendants of these Roman soldiers. They still live in China. They have Western looks and live in a village not far from xi'an.
It's amazing.

这也是我注意到的第一件事。我在Tiktok 上看到,中国人甚至还找到了这些罗马士兵的后裔,他们依然居住在中国,他们有着西方人的长相,生活在距离西安不远的一个村落里。
太奇妙了。

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Patrik Tsar
· Aug 30
The first map looks like one from the 1600–1700s, the ‘Roman Empire’ is actually the Ottomans and it’s not the Han Dynasty, but Qing.

第一张地图看起来像是1600-1700年代的地图,“罗马帝国”实际上是奥斯曼帝国,右边的也不是汉朝,而是清朝。

Matt Quigley
· Sep 6
WTH you taking about. Ottomans didn't rule England

你在说啥啊。奥斯曼帝国并没有统治英格兰

Nathan Ramirez
· Sep 4
The ottomans never had any claim on that much land

奥斯曼人从未对那么多土地拥有任何主权

Patrik Tsar
· Sep 6
They did claim the title of Caeser of Rome throgh right of conquest, taking the Eastern Roman bpundaries further than ever.

他们确实通过征服获得了罗马凯撒的头衔,使东罗马边疆比以往任何时候都更进一步。

Joseph Tan
· Oct 30
You need to polish up your history and geography, sir. No offence.

先生,您需要完善您的历史和地理知识。我没有恶意。

Profile photo for Charles Choy
Charles Choy
· Sep 21
Obviously the Romans were wrong. Chinese were gentle, but far more serious to trade, buy & sell.

显然罗马人错了。中国人很温和,但在贸易、买卖方面他们其实要严肃认真得多。

Mich Verschuere
· Aug 29
The map of the Roman empire in this otherwise very informative answer is only including the Eastern Roman empire at some time near the end. Not really sure why do you post it?

在这个信息丰富的答案中,罗马帝国的地图仅包括接近尾声某个时间的东罗马帝国。不太确定为什么要发布这张地图?

Profile photo for Neela Veronte
Neela Veronte
· Aug 29
Because of many people writing different information. One that Byzantine wasn't exist at all other that England ruled the planet till from 20k years BC and so on… Even like America been established in 130 BC.
Mongolian nation… Nobody know about russian necromancy ideology centuries ago (till nowadays).

因为很多人写的信息不对。拜占庭帝国根本不存在,英国统治这个星球直到公元前2万年等等……甚至就像美国在公元前130年建立一样。
蒙古民族……几个世纪前(直到今天)没有人知道俄罗斯的意识形态。

These people saying of fake information due to Mongolians.

这些人说,假历史是蒙古人造成的。

Mich Verschuere
· Aug 30
Ok ok. Because you were addressing the Roman empire as a whole. There was no mention about the later Eastern Roman empire…

好的好的。因为你是在谈论整个罗马帝国。没有提到后来的东罗马帝国……

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Archivist 2
· Sun
these maps always use rome at its hight and the other empires at their lowest even when historically it would be wrong

这些地图总是使用罗马的鼎盛时期和其他帝国的最低时期,即使从历史上看这是错误的

Profile photo for Arch Stanton
Arch Stanton
· 2h
Haha, so funny
It turns out that China was called the Kingdom of Selis by the Romans.
I finally understand why Huawei recently launched a brand new car. Its name is "Selis Auto", which turns out to mean "Chinese car".

哈哈,真有趣
原来中国被罗马人叫做塞力斯王国。
我终于理解最近为什么华为推出了一款全新的汽车,他的名字叫“塞力斯汽车”,原来就是“中国汽车”意思。

Daniel Reynolds
· Nov 3
The Han Empire and the Roman Empire fought.
So imaginative
But I guess, if the Roman legion, which is mainly infantry, faces the Han Empire, which is mainly cavalry. Not much hope of winning. The phalanx of the Roman legions could kick Macedonia's butt, but when they encountered the Chinese, they were dead.
I went to xi'an to see some cultural relics, cultural relics from 2000 years ago. The crossbows and arrows made by the Chinese are as exquisite as those made by machine tools. Even though 2000 years have passed, these things still have a murderous atmosphere.
It is said that their military factory can produce 10,000 such things a month.
The Romans only had swords and spears, they hadn't invented the crossbow yet! Their projectiles were ineffective against the Han Empire's cavalry.

汉帝国和罗马帝国作战。
太有想象力了
不过我猜,以步兵为主的罗马军团,如果对上以骑兵为主的汉帝国。没有多少获胜希望。罗马军团的方阵可以踢马其顿的屁股,但是遇到中国人,他们死定了。
我去西安看过一些文物,2000年前的文物。那些中国人制造的弩机和箭矢,就像使用机床制造出来的一样精美,尽管已经经过了2000年,这些东西依然透露着杀人的气息。
据说,他们的军工厂一个月可以制造一万件这样的东西。
罗马人只有剑和长矛,他们还没有发明十字弓!他们的抛射器对汉帝国的骑兵根本不起作用。

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