海外印度人讨论:美国挫败了在美国领土上杀害锡克教分离分子的阴谋 part2
2023-12-01 碧波荡漾恒河水 8622
正文翻译


正文见part1

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评论翻译
DissolvedDreams
I guess. They are in a pretty good sport economically and geopolitically at the moment. But of all things, sanctioning or attacking India would be the single worst use of resources at this point in time. There are bigger threats to US sovereignty and global primacy out there, and India is a net asset to the US. I can’t believe any rational actor wanting to squander that.

我猜。他们目前在经济和地缘政治上都表现得很好。但在所有手段中,制裁或攻击印度将是目前最糟糕的使用资源的方式。美国主权和全球主导地位面临着更大的威胁,而印度对美国来说是一笔净资产。我无法相信任何一个理性的人会想要将其挥霍掉。

Edit: Although this could very likely hurt chances for greater intelligence sharing between India and the US, which will hurt us in the long term. It’s clear from this fiasco that R&AW is not ready for prime-time and we could use all the help we can get against China.

编辑:虽然这很可能会损害印度和美国之间更大的情报共享机会,从长远来看,这将伤害我们。从这次惨败中可以清楚地看出,印度调查分析局还没有准备好进入黄金时代,我们可以利用我们所能得到的一切帮助来对抗中国。

nsharma647
Not really the usa namely cia has been doing what it wants around the world for decades. Why is it ok for them

并不是,美国,也就是CIA几十年来一直在世界各地为所欲为。为什么他们对此置若罔闻?

DissolvedDreams
Because they have the money, the technology, the massive military and the consumption market. I thought that was obvious. Do we give a shit what Nepal has to say on their border ‘disagreement’ with us?

因为他们有钱、有技术、有庞大的军队和消费市场。我认为这是显而易见的。我们在乎尼泊尔在边界问题上与我们的“分歧”吗?

No-Butterscotch-5782
Yeah, as an American, I think that's probably right. The US wants to be friendlier with India, it makes a lot of cultural and geopolitical sense. The stuff with Israel lately has made that even more true. But the US considers foreign assassinations on our soil to be disrespectful (I know we do the same in other places, I'm just saying how it is perceived.) and makes India look bad, so we feel uncomfortable looking like we support such things. This is mostly just awkward for the US. I suspect we will forget about it and pretend it never happened soon.

是的,作为一个美国人,我认为这可能是对的。美国希望与印度更友好,这在文化和地缘政治上都很有意义。最近与以色列发生的事情使这一点更加真实。但是美国认为,外国在我们的土地上进行暗杀是不尊重的(我知道我们在其他地方也这样做,我只是说人们对其的看法),让印度看起来很糟糕,所以我们感到不舒服,好像我们支持这样的事情一样。这对美国来说主要是尴尬的。我怀疑我们不会忘记它,并假装它从未发生过。

Time_Entrance_2249
Most realistic answer

最现实的答案。

CloudiusWhite
As an American it would be a shame to lose India as a potential future major player, but that's for India to decide.

作为一个美国人,失去印度这个潜在的未来主要参与者将是一种耻辱,但这要由印度来决定。
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Flimsy_Situation_506
Well Canada called them out when they succeeded in killing a Sikh man here over the summer and got a lot of backlash.

今年夏天,他们在加拿大成功杀害了一名锡克教徒,并遭到了加拿大的强烈反对。

syzamix
Only because Canada is a smaller country than India in terms of economy. US is not the same. If US has an issue with India, India will be fucked.

这只是因为加拿大在经济方面比印度小。美国就不一样了。如果美国对印度有意见,印度就完蛋了。

Where do you think all the big IT companies sell their services? Do you want us blocked like they are trying to block China?

你认为所有的大型IT公司在哪里销售他们的服务? 你想让我们遭到封锁吗? 就像他们试图封锁中国一样。

Strong_Initiative_39
Pannun angered Indian officials this month by issuing a video in which he warned Sikhs not to fly on Air India because it would be “life threatening”. He told the FT he was not making a violent threat against the airline.

“潘农本月发布了一段视频,警告锡克教徒不要乘坐印度航空公司的飞机,因为这将“危及生命”,这激怒了印度官员。他告诉英国《金融时报》,他并没有对该航空公司进行暴力威胁。”

That's... one way to put it

这是……一面之词。

zaplinaki
I've been "randomly sexted" for two different security checks at airports cos of that asshole.
[I have a beard]

因为那个混蛋,我在机场两次被“随机选中”接受安检。
我留了胡子。

blesfemous
“You dare to use my spells against me, Potter?”

“你竟敢用我的咒语对付我,波特?”

redditworkin
Yes, we invented this game! No one else can play.

是的,这是我们发明的游戏!其他人都不许玩。

BorodinoWin
really? the USA invented assassination?
really? seriously?

真的?美国发明了暗杀?
真的?认真的?

Defiant-Pea3299
Bros never heard of sarcasm

兄弟,从来没听过讽刺吧。
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BorodinoWin
it wasn’t sarcasm. people actually believe that

这不是讽刺,真有人会相信的。

AhamBrahmasm1
People do believe that the US,Israel and Russia conduct the majority of assassinations which isn't false

人们确实相信美国、以色列和俄罗斯实施了大多数暗杀,这并没错。

br18uyt
Wasn't the Khalistani movement dead long ago? Why is India tryna chase down fringe elements in foreign countries? They're just gonna ignite more anger tbh.

哈利斯坦运动不是早就死了吗? 为什么印度要在外国追捕边缘分子? 他们只会激起更多的愤怒。

Feniksrises
Because Hindu nationalism/fascism gets Modi votes.
And honestly most Western countries don't care all that much if Indians assassinate other Indians.

因为印度民族主义/法西斯主义让莫迪获得了选票。
老实说,大多数西方国家并不关心印度人是否会暗杀其他印度人。

MarshalThornton
I think the western countries have made it pretty obvious that they do care about assassinations on their territories. Anyone with a brain could have seen this coming.

我认为西方国家已经很明显地表明,他们确实关心他们领土上的暗杀事件。任何有头脑的人都能预见到这一点。

Sofiwyn
if Indians assassinate other Indians.
America will absolutely care if Indians assassinate Americans in America. Just because India wants to pretend that foreigners of Indian ethnicity are still Indian, that doesn't make it true.

如果印度人在美国暗杀美国人,美国绝对会关心的。仅仅因为印度想假装印度裔外国人仍然是印度人,这并不意味着这是真的。

leeringHobbit
The ruling party tries to finds a bad guy in each state and consolidate voters against them. There were some farmers protests against some reforms a while ago led by the Sikh community and this is a way to discredit them by painting them with the Khalistani brush.

执政党试图在每个州找到一个坏人,并团结选民反对他们。不久前,一些农民抗议锡克教社区领导的一些改革,这是用哈利斯坦的画笔来诋毁他们的一种方式。
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Live_Cardiologist_56
It isn't dead. A lot of khalistan rallies are held in Canada. Their leaders are openly threatening to spread terror in India.

它没有死。很多哈利斯坦集会在加拿大举行。他们的领导人公开威胁要在印度传播恐怖主义。

Also there was clash between indian and khalistanis this diwali.

今年排灯节,印度人和卡利斯坦分子之间也发生了冲突。

Artistic_Tomato7464
I mean, it's actually dormant (I'm literally a Punjabi) and the only reason it is being revived is because of Indian government trying to find another excuse for further polarization and a distraction from the regular issues.

我的意思是,它实际上处于休眠状态(我是旁遮普人),它复活的唯一原因是印度政府试图为进一步的两极分化找到另一个借口,分散人们对常规问题的注意力。

I mean, the risk-reward here is incredibly low and these people are not only harmless in their home countries but also a minority among even the Sikh community. Most of us are busy in our regular lives, trying to earn a living, whether in Punjab or Canada.

我的意思是,这种做法的风险回报非常低,这些人不仅在他们的祖国是无害的,而且在锡克教徒社区中也是少数。无论是在旁遮普还是加拿大,我们大多数人都忙于日常生活,努力谋生。

Even the Punjabi language media doesn't cover this topic, but the nationalist Hindi media surely does a lot.

即使旁遮普语媒体也不报道这个话题,但民族主义的印地语媒体肯定做了很多报道。

Also there was clash between indian and khalistanis this diwali.
You mean Punjabi-Haryanvi college students clashing with each other over their respective flags, where both were being cringe towards each other. It was a cringe fest, that happens every Diwali in the last few years, where they end creating a mess for cleaners.

你是说旁遮普-哈里亚维省的大学生为了各自的旗帜而发生冲突,双方都在互相丢脸。这是一场尴尬的表演,过去几年每个排灯节都会发生这种事,最后他们给清洁工留下一个烂摊子。

SweetToothFairy
Chaddis don't care. They need an enemy and can't pick on Muslims or Christians too much, they'll piss of Arab or Western trading partners. Sikhs are an easy mark because they don't expect any other country to care.

印度教徒需要一个敌人,不能太欺负穆斯林或基督徒,这样会惹恼阿拉伯或西方贸易伙伴。锡克教徒是个容易欺负的目标,因为他们不指望其他国家会在意。

Also, the thin skinned leader was embarrassed he didn't get his way with farm laws and his sponsors couldn't profit.

此外,某个脸皮薄的领导人感到很尴尬,因为他没有借助农业法得逞,他的赞助商也无法获利。

avtar1699
I'm based in the UK and it's the same here. No serious person believes in Khalistan even the most rampant sikh nationalists.

我在英国工作,这里也一样。没有人真正相信哈利斯坦,即使是最猖獗的锡克教民族主义者。

Sin_Upon_Cos
Oh BJP can't win the next election with Pakistan. Pakistan is already in shambles and they need a new enemy for the rashtra. So moving on from Pakistan and Muslims, they are targeting Sikhs since a farmers strong armed them. I follow news every day and there was no khalistan issue. It just arose one year before the election year.

哦,人民党不可能利用巴基斯坦话题赢得下一次选举。巴基斯坦已经一团糟了,为了缔造一个印度教国家,他们需要一个新的敌人。所以从巴基斯坦和穆斯林移开目光,他们盯上了锡克教徒,因为一个农民武装了他们。我每天都关注新闻,根本没有哈利斯坦问题。它只是在大选年的前一年出现的。

Artistic_Tomato7464
Basically, the Muslim demonization thing has plateaued (because they've already spread more than enough hate against them), so they've created this topic in news for further distraction.

基本上,妖魔化穆斯林的事情已经趋于稳定(因为他们已经传播了足够多的仇恨),所以他们在新闻中创造了这个话题来进一步分散注意力。

6 years ago, I can bet 99% of peeps here would have been indifferent to all of this. It's all happening because the BJP got angry after the Farm Protests.

6年前,我敢打赌这里99%的人对这一切都漠不关心。这一切的发生都是因为印度人民党在农场抗议后感到愤怒。

Sin_Upon_Cos
If assassination attempt is true, waiting to see if USA will openly say it because a lot of politicians there aren't spineless. And if USA openly claims it, I'm waiting to see if we are gutsy enough to send American diplomats back just like we did with Canada.

如果暗杀企图是真的,那就等着看美国是否会公开说出来,因为那里的很多政客都并非没有骨气。如果美国公开宣称此事,我在等着看我们是否有足够的勇气把美国外交官赶回去,就像我们对加拿大所做的那样。
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Delivery_Mysterious
Pannun threatened Air India flight in New Delhi Airport.

潘农在新德里机场威胁印度航空公司的航班。

bramptonmt1
That is as per Indian media. His “threat” in the video was nonspecific. He clarified later in Canadian media that he is only calling for boycott. CTV

这是印度媒体的说法。他在视频中的“威胁”并不具体。他后来在加拿大媒体上澄清说,他只是呼吁抵制。
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Purplebuzz
How long until India closes its boarders to Americans like it did Canadians for this outrageous accusation?

印度还要多久才能像对加拿大人(因其“粗暴的指责”)那样对美国人关闭边境?

thewindows95nerd
Well fuck man, I literally just am thinking about moving to India short term especially since I'm going back home soon. Strongly hoping it doesn't affect OCI applications.

好吧,去他妈的,我刚刚真的在考虑短期搬到印度,尤其是因为我很快就要回家了。强烈希望它不会影响OCI申请。

mumbaiblues
India has a lot loose in trade with US than Canada.

相比于加拿大,印度在与美国的贸易中有很多软肋。

pineapplesuit7
Canada is a lightweight so India can swing its dick around. They can't pull that BS with USA. Too much to lose for such a small thing.

加拿大无足轻重,所以印度可以胡搞乱搞。他们不能对美国扯这种废话。为这么一件小事损失太大了。
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Proof_obxtive_5704
India has always been the lightweight. The Indian government are diplomatic amateurs who ran around with their heads cut off when Trudeau made the accusations.

印度一直是轻量级的。当特鲁多提出指控时,印度政府是外交上的外行,他们像无头苍蝇一样四处乱撞。

kofefe1760
Canada is a lightweight

“加拿大无足轻重”

lol, the fact that you can say this is bonkers. Canada is a country with massive connections on the global stage. The UK, the USA and France are not lightweights on the international stage and all are close allies of Canada.

哈哈,你竟然这么说,真是疯狂。加拿大是一个在全球舞台上有着广泛联系的国家。英国、美国和法国在国际舞台上并非无足轻重,而且都是加拿大的亲密盟友。

Also, the USA and Canada are the two closest countries in the world, literally, metaphorically and geopolitically.

此外,美国和加拿大是世界上最接近的两个国家,从字面上、隐喻上和地缘政治上都是如此。

The lightweight here is India, thinking that a population of a billion piss poor, poorly educated, low skilled people is an asset.

在这件事里,无足轻重的是印度,自认为10亿贫穷、教育程度低、低技能的人口是一种资产。

A_reddit_bro
India - 5th largest economy, largest democracy, successful space programme, nuclear power, indigenous military with blue water capability, also known amongst philosophers of Reddit as a ‘lightweight’.

印度-第五大经济体,最大的皿煮国家,成功的太空计划,核能,拥有蓝水能力的本土军队,竟也被Reddit的哲学家称为“无足轻重”。

Canada - 10th largest economy second most junior member of five eyes by virtue of being majority Anglo Saxon in population and world largest supplier of maple syrup and apologies. ‘Heavyweight’ of course.

加拿大-第十大经济体,五眼联盟第二弱鸡的成员,因为人口以盎格鲁-撒克逊人为主,是世界上最大的枫糖浆和道歉的供应国。当然“有足轻重”。

In_Formaldehyde_
Having twice the GDP of a nation with 35x fewer people isn't really a flex tbh. GDP will only be a bragging point when it's at China's level.

人口是别人35倍,GDP只有对方2倍,这可没什么好夸耀的。只有当GDP达到中国的水平时,它才会成为一个卖点。

canad1anbacon
Yeah put another way, Canada has a bigger GDP than Russia. We are not a major power but not insignificant either

是的,换句话说,加拿大的GDP比俄罗斯高。我们不是大国,但也不是无足轻重。

Igottamake
Canada is no lightweight. I’m not Canadian (or Indian, just kind like of intrigued by this story) but I don’t know if you’re referring to its economy or its diplomacy or defense. It’s strong in all three.

加拿大也不是无足轻重。我不是加拿大人(也不是印度人,只是对这个故事很感兴趣),但我不知道你是指它的经济、外交还是国防。它在这三方面都很强大。

avtar1699
I am based in the UK and part of the Sikh diaspora. This khalistan issue is exaggerated. No one seriously believes in Khalistan besides a few nut jobs. This over reaction stems from modi not doing well at home. For the most part being an open khalistani in the sikh diaspora is looked down upon. It's only a vocal minority that want it.

我住在英国,是海外锡克教徒的一员。卡利斯坦问题被夸大了。除了几个疯子,没人真的相信哈利斯坦。这种过度反应源于莫迪在国内做得不好。在大多数情况下,在散居的锡克教徒中,公开表示自己是哈利斯坦人会被人轻视。只有少数人想要。
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dadialak
If Bhakts understood this, the world would be a better place. Fact is, they are calming these acts like their own version of hunting down Bin Laden which is not only hilarious but it shows the deep rooted issue with Indian nationalists.

如果印度人明白这一点,世界将会变得更美好。事实是,他们大张旗鼓的搞这些事,就像他们自己版本的追捕本拉登一样,这不仅滑稽,而且显示了印度民族主义者根深蒂固的问题。

NinduTheWise
Yeah I am Sikh and nobody in my family really cares about it

是的,我是锡克教徒,我家里没人关心这个。

baggarbilla
Same here is US.

美国也是如此。

Trick-Champion3634
What you are saying is very true. I hear the same as well.

你说的很对。我也听到了同样的话。

Alihzahn
If this is true, the Indian government are clowns of greater magnitude than expected.

如果这是真的,那么印度政府就是比预期更大的小丑。

I can't think of a single upside to this. Immigration will suffer, tourism will suffer. So will new and current foreign investments.

我想不出这有什么好处。移民会受到影响,旅游业也会受到影响。新的和现有的外国投资也是如此。

Countries like Saudi and Russia can pull off brain-dead mission impossible assassinations like this and get away relatively unscathed. Saudi has immense oil reserves to fuck up global supplies in retaliation, Russia has more nukes than the NATO combined.

像沙特和俄罗斯这样的国家可以搞这种脑死亡的不可能完成的暗杀任务,而且相对毫发无损。沙特拥有巨大的石油储备,可以破坏全球供应进行报复,俄罗斯拥有的核武器比北约加起来还多。

The people who didn't know about khalistan know about it now. Enjoy the upcoming webseries catering to chaddi hardons, while the progress and the reputation of the country suffers.

以前不知道卡利斯坦的人现在知道了。好好享受网络上即将到来的对chaddi hardon的追捧,而印度的进步和声誉受到影响。

Keep voting for these clowns, stay delusional about who's the actual danger to this country, keep looking the other way.

继续投票给这些小丑,继续幻想谁才是这个国家的真正危险,继续视而不见。

releasetheshutter
They're for sure coordinating assassination attempts on Whatsapp, but one of them accidentally signed into their account on a US government computer and never logged out.

他们肯定在Whatsapp上协调暗杀行动,但其中一人不小心登录了他们在美国政府电脑上的账户,从未退出。
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Alihzahn
You can't make this shit up

这种破事编都编不出来。

beehive3108
If this is true then also the Canadian accusation may actually be true.

如果这是真的,那么加拿大的指控也可能是真的。

SuburbanNaxalite
That was obvious to most people from the beginning.

对大多数人来说从一开始就是显而易见的。

random120604
Appears as though Canada was not lying then. You do have to question what the government thinks it is doing though. The risk reward for these killings is pretty low.

看来加拿大当时并没有撒谎。我们必须对政府认为自己在做什么提出质疑。这些杀戮的风险回报很低。

amarviratmohaan
Appears as though Canada was not lying then
Canada was obviously not lying, this was clear from the beginning.

加拿大显然没有撒谎,这从一开始就很清楚。

Countries don't routinely accuse other countries of assassinations, and in particular, not when they're (along with their allies) making a concerted effort to court said other country.

各国通常不会指责其他国家实施暗杀,尤其是当他们(与盟友一起)齐心协力向另一个国家提起诉讼时。

syzamix
Looks like you haven't been on Indian subreddits discussing this. Plenty of people believed whatever India's official line was.

看来你还没在印度版块讨论过这个。无论印度的官方路线是什么,很多人都深信不疑。

amarviratmohaan
Let me rephrase - it was clear to anyone with even a basic idea of geopolitics.

让我换个说法——对地缘政治有基本了解的人都很清楚。

TheSereneMaster
Yeah, I vividly remember getting into an argument in this very subreddit with some idiot who insisted that Trudeau couldn't be trusted on the Indian government being behind the assassination. Goes to show that some people will argue the most asinine idea for the sake of rabid nationalism.

是的,我清楚地记得在reddit的这个版块和一些白痴争论过,他们坚持认为在“印度政府幕后策划了这起暗杀”问题上,特鲁多不值得信任。这表明,有些人会为了狂热的民族主义,为最愚蠢的想法争辩。

sugathakumaran
The risk reward for these killings is pretty low.
Perhaps the government wants to make an example of those who try to be too uppity in India itself. The message is: if you attack the Indian state, you will be unceremoniously killed no matter where you are.

也许印度政府是想对国内那些妄自尊大的人杀鸡儆猴。其信息是:如果你攻击印度政府,无论你在哪里,你都会被毫不客气地杀死。

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