塞尔维亚网友在中国二级城市公立医院看病，总结篇
正文翻译
Nik Stankovic
I guess this thread did well. I knew it would it's why I wrote it. Healthcare is important and a touchy issue everywhere. But the comments are excellent too, people sharing their experiences doing the same thing in their countries, in Canada, US, France and Germany, Ecuador and it's just crazy. It is truly a global crises. It seems like very few places are doing it right (China seems to be one).
我认为，我这个主题做得很好。我就知道会这样，这就是我写下这个主题的原因。医疗保健在任何地方都很重要，也是一个敏感的话题。
评论都很好，人们纷纷分享了自己做同样事情的经历，在加拿大、美国、法国、德国、厄瓜多尔等地，医疗保健太疯狂了。
这确实是一场全球性的危机。似乎很少有地方做得对（中国似乎就是做对的地方之一）。
Nik Stankovic
I guess this thread did well. I knew it would it's why I wrote it. Healthcare is important and a touchy issue everywhere. But the comments are excellent too, people sharing their experiences doing the same thing in their countries, in Canada, US, France and Germany, Ecuador and it's just crazy. It is truly a global crises. It seems like very few places are doing it right (China seems to be one).
我认为，我这个主题做得很好。我就知道会这样，这就是我写下这个主题的原因。医疗保健在任何地方都很重要，也是一个敏感的话题。
评论都很好，人们纷纷分享了自己做同样事情的经历，在加拿大、美国、法国、德国、厄瓜多尔等地，医疗保健太疯狂了。
这确实是一场全球性的危机。似乎很少有地方做得对（中国似乎就是做对的地方之一）。
评论翻译
Nik Stankovic
Mostly it seems the problem is one of cost not availability of machines and doctors. Serbia is a good example: you can get superb, world class healthcare in Serbia, if you can afford it, but the problem is most people in Serbia cannot (although it's cheap by US standards). Of course, people in Serbia have the public option, which quality-wise isn't bad at all, but it is the wait. And that wait of course is a supply problem, which is a cost problem. You wouldn't have to wait if there were more doctors and machines. But the system cannot afford them, rather, if it hired them, then it would spend more and require higher taxes, which nobody wants to pay. But it is also priorities. A CT scanner costs about $300,000. A couple of technicians, and a couple of radiologists, plus a few other supporting things, in Serbian salaries, probably does not cost more than $100,000 / year to operate one. Let's say you can scan 20 patients / day (Chinese are doing probably 100 per scanner per day). If you bought 100 scanners = $30 million. It will cost $10 million / year to scan 100 x 20 = 2000 people per day. 300 days per year, that is 600,000 scans per year, this is additional of course. Don't tell me it will not halve the CT wait time in the public sector at least. Serbia has about 6 million people. Just those additional CT scanners will allow everyone in Serbia to get scanned once in 10 years on average. Which is about right. 7 scans in an average lifetime. But we can't afford that. Oh really. Vucic is building a new National Stadium for $300 million USD. C'mon. Serbia has plenty of stadiums AND THEY ARE HALF EMPTY. Serbian football is shit. But we need more stadiums so we can get better. Please. Besides, priorities. $300 million will fund those additional 600,000 CT scans / year for 20 years. People have complained about this stadium, and Vucic has said "we can't just do one thing, we have to do many" he wants to co-host the World Cup, raise Serbia's profile, tourism, also the whole area around the stadium will develop, I get it. But I think more CT scanners will definitely improve more people's lives more. Nothing worse than being sick and not being able to see a doctor or even seeing a doctor and then the doctor saying well, I need the scan then I can make the diagnosis, can't do it blind. I talk about Serbia because I know an example, but I am sure it is similar elsewhere. Why more public money isn't being spent on healthcare as priority is beyond me. There is such a high demand for it.
在大多数情况下，问题似乎都在于价格，而不是没有机器或者医生。
塞尔维亚就是一个很好的例子：如果你负担得起的话，你可以在塞尔维亚获得一流的世界级医疗保健，但问题是塞尔维亚的大多数人负担不起（尽管按美国标准来看很便宜）。
当然，塞尔维亚人可以选择公立医疗，在质量方面它并不差，但是等待时间是个大问题。
当然，等待是一个供应问题，也是一个成本问题。如果有更多的医生和机器，你就不必等待了。但这样的系统他们负担不起，如果你想要这样的系统，你就需要花费更多的钱，需要交纳更多的税收，没有人愿意支付这么多的税收。但医疗是优先事项。
一台CT扫描仪的价格约为30万美元。几名技术人员和几名放射科医生，再加上其他一些支持性的东西，以塞尔维亚人的工资计算，操作一台CT扫描仪一年的成本可能不会超过10万美元。假设你每天可以扫描20个病人（中国人每天每台扫描仪可能扫描100个）。如果你买了100台扫描仪=3000万美元。每天扫描100 x 20=2000人，每年将花费1000万美元。每年300天，也就是每年60万次扫描，当然，这是额外附加的。
你别和我说，这样做不会让公立医院中等待CT扫描的时间减少一半。
塞尔维亚约有600万人口。仅仅这些额外的CT扫描仪，就可以让塞尔维亚的每个人平均每10年接受一次扫描。这是权利问题。平均寿命内，每个人可以扫描7次。但我们负担不起。
哦，是的。武契奇正在斥资3亿美元建造一座新的国家体育场。拜托，塞尔维亚有很多体育场，但有一半是空的。塞尔维亚的足球太糟糕了。但我们需要更多的体育场，这样我们才能变得更好。请优先将3亿美元用于20年内每年额外60万次CT扫描。
人们抱怨这座体育场，武契奇说“我们不能只做一件事，我们必须做很多事情”，他想共同主办世界杯，提高塞尔维亚的知名度，提高旅游业，这样体育场周围的整个地区都会得到发展，我明白。但我认为更多的CT扫描仪肯定会更好地改善更多人的生活。
没有什么比这更糟糕的了：生病，不能看医生，或者看到了医生，医生却说，好吧，我们需要先扫描，我才能做诊断，不能盲目判断。
我谈论塞尔维亚，因为这是我知道的例子，但我相信其他地方也一样。
为什么更多的公共资金没有优先用于医疗保健，我无法理解。毕竟人们对它的需求如此之高。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Mostly it seems the problem is one of cost not availability of machines and doctors. Serbia is a good example: you can get superb, world class healthcare in Serbia, if you can afford it, but the problem is most people in Serbia cannot (although it's cheap by US standards). Of course, people in Serbia have the public option, which quality-wise isn't bad at all, but it is the wait. And that wait of course is a supply problem, which is a cost problem. You wouldn't have to wait if there were more doctors and machines. But the system cannot afford them, rather, if it hired them, then it would spend more and require higher taxes, which nobody wants to pay. But it is also priorities. A CT scanner costs about $300,000. A couple of technicians, and a couple of radiologists, plus a few other supporting things, in Serbian salaries, probably does not cost more than $100,000 / year to operate one. Let's say you can scan 20 patients / day (Chinese are doing probably 100 per scanner per day). If you bought 100 scanners = $30 million. It will cost $10 million / year to scan 100 x 20 = 2000 people per day. 300 days per year, that is 600,000 scans per year, this is additional of course. Don't tell me it will not halve the CT wait time in the public sector at least. Serbia has about 6 million people. Just those additional CT scanners will allow everyone in Serbia to get scanned once in 10 years on average. Which is about right. 7 scans in an average lifetime. But we can't afford that. Oh really. Vucic is building a new National Stadium for $300 million USD. C'mon. Serbia has plenty of stadiums AND THEY ARE HALF EMPTY. Serbian football is shit. But we need more stadiums so we can get better. Please. Besides, priorities. $300 million will fund those additional 600,000 CT scans / year for 20 years. People have complained about this stadium, and Vucic has said "we can't just do one thing, we have to do many" he wants to co-host the World Cup, raise Serbia's profile, tourism, also the whole area around the stadium will develop, I get it. But I think more CT scanners will definitely improve more people's lives more. Nothing worse than being sick and not being able to see a doctor or even seeing a doctor and then the doctor saying well, I need the scan then I can make the diagnosis, can't do it blind. I talk about Serbia because I know an example, but I am sure it is similar elsewhere. Why more public money isn't being spent on healthcare as priority is beyond me. There is such a high demand for it.
在大多数情况下，问题似乎都在于价格，而不是没有机器或者医生。
塞尔维亚就是一个很好的例子：如果你负担得起的话，你可以在塞尔维亚获得一流的世界级医疗保健，但问题是塞尔维亚的大多数人负担不起（尽管按美国标准来看很便宜）。
当然，塞尔维亚人可以选择公立医疗，在质量方面它并不差，但是等待时间是个大问题。
当然，等待是一个供应问题，也是一个成本问题。如果有更多的医生和机器，你就不必等待了。但这样的系统他们负担不起，如果你想要这样的系统，你就需要花费更多的钱，需要交纳更多的税收，没有人愿意支付这么多的税收。但医疗是优先事项。
一台CT扫描仪的价格约为30万美元。几名技术人员和几名放射科医生，再加上其他一些支持性的东西，以塞尔维亚人的工资计算，操作一台CT扫描仪一年的成本可能不会超过10万美元。假设你每天可以扫描20个病人（中国人每天每台扫描仪可能扫描100个）。如果你买了100台扫描仪=3000万美元。每天扫描100 x 20=2000人，每年将花费1000万美元。每年300天，也就是每年60万次扫描，当然，这是额外附加的。
你别和我说，这样做不会让公立医院中等待CT扫描的时间减少一半。
塞尔维亚约有600万人口。仅仅这些额外的CT扫描仪，就可以让塞尔维亚的每个人平均每10年接受一次扫描。这是权利问题。平均寿命内，每个人可以扫描7次。但我们负担不起。
哦，是的。武契奇正在斥资3亿美元建造一座新的国家体育场。拜托，塞尔维亚有很多体育场，但有一半是空的。塞尔维亚的足球太糟糕了。但我们需要更多的体育场，这样我们才能变得更好。请优先将3亿美元用于20年内每年额外60万次CT扫描。
人们抱怨这座体育场，武契奇说“我们不能只做一件事，我们必须做很多事情”，他想共同主办世界杯，提高塞尔维亚的知名度，提高旅游业，这样体育场周围的整个地区都会得到发展，我明白。但我认为更多的CT扫描仪肯定会更好地改善更多人的生活。
没有什么比这更糟糕的了：生病，不能看医生，或者看到了医生，医生却说，好吧，我们需要先扫描，我才能做诊断，不能盲目判断。
我谈论塞尔维亚，因为这是我知道的例子，但我相信其他地方也一样。
为什么更多的公共资金没有优先用于医疗保健，我无法理解。毕竟人们对它的需求如此之高。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Shakil
It's a matter of priorities. Many countries waste their money on anything else but improving the lives of their citizens.
这是个优先权的问题。许多国家把钱浪费在改善公民生活以外的任何事情上。
It's a matter of priorities. Many countries waste their money on anything else but improving the lives of their citizens.
这是个优先权的问题。许多国家把钱浪费在改善公民生活以外的任何事情上。
Srdjan Krtolica
Call me paranoid and/or conspiranoid but, except for China and very few other places as you said, at one point it is not ONLY the cost of machinery, energy, building hospitals and maintaining infrastructure but ALSO the cost of maintaining old people alive. As scary as it sounds.
你们可以称我为偏执狂和/或阴谋狂，但除了中国和你所说的极少数其他地方，在某些人看来，这不仅是机器、能源、建造医院和维护基础设施的成本问题，还是维护老年人生存成本的问题。细思极恐。
Call me paranoid and/or conspiranoid but, except for China and very few other places as you said, at one point it is not ONLY the cost of machinery, energy, building hospitals and maintaining infrastructure but ALSO the cost of maintaining old people alive. As scary as it sounds.
你们可以称我为偏执狂和/或阴谋狂，但除了中国和你所说的极少数其他地方，在某些人看来，这不仅是机器、能源、建造医院和维护基础设施的成本问题，还是维护老年人生存成本的问题。细思极恐。
AlanWoodhead
An issue with some economic systems is the nonsense that public spending has to come from taxes. If Modern Monetary Theory was followed by all governments with sovereign currencies then they could buy anything that was available using the currency. China can.
在一些经济体系中，有一个无稽之谈：公共支出必须来自税收。
如果所有拥有主权货币的政府都遵循现代货币理论，那么他们就可以用这种货币购买任何可用的东西。中国可以。
蘜
An issue with some economic systems is the nonsense that public spending has to come from taxes. If Modern Monetary Theory was followed by all governments with sovereign currencies then they could buy anything that was available using the currency. China can.
在一些经济体系中，有一个无稽之谈：公共支出必须来自税收。
如果所有拥有主权货币的政府都遵循现代货币理论，那么他们就可以用这种货币购买任何可用的东西。中国可以。
蘜
I should add that a year of health insurance in China costs 300 to 600rmb, or about $40 to $80
我应该补充一下，在中国，一年的健康保险费用为300至600元人民币，约合40至80美元。
我应该补充一下，在中国，一年的健康保险费用为300至600元人民币，约合40至80美元。
Peter Steinmann
I am not sure what makes you so positive about the Chinese public health care system. The Chinese themselves, both users and care providers, generally see things quite differently, and not in a good way. Of course there were improvements, but there is a long way to go…
我不知道是什么让你对中国的公共医疗体系如此乐观。
中国人自己，无论是使用者还是护理提供者，对事情的看法通常都截然不同，而且不是很好。当然有改进，但还有很长的路要走……
I am not sure what makes you so positive about the Chinese public health care system. The Chinese themselves, both users and care providers, generally see things quite differently, and not in a good way. Of course there were improvements, but there is a long way to go…
我不知道是什么让你对中国的公共医疗体系如此乐观。
中国人自己，无论是使用者还是护理提供者，对事情的看法通常都截然不同，而且不是很好。当然有改进，但还有很长的路要走……
moni ☭
it’s really great for people to be able to see the reality in china is not what western media tells you, and that all these countries that decry socialism are not providing this quality of life like china is. so many ppl in the quotes shocked
人们能够看到，中国的现实并不是西方媒体告诉你的那样，所有这些谴责社会主义的国家，都不能像中国那样提供这样的生活质量。很多人都被楼主的引述震惊到了。
it’s really great for people to be able to see the reality in china is not what western media tells you, and that all these countries that decry socialism are not providing this quality of life like china is. so many ppl in the quotes shocked
人们能够看到，中国的现实并不是西方媒体告诉你的那样，所有这些谴责社会主义的国家，都不能像中国那样提供这样的生活质量。很多人都被楼主的引述震惊到了。
Ameya Potdar
Serbs produce some really good footballers
塞尔维亚人培养出了一些真正优秀的足球运动员。
Serbs produce some really good footballers
塞尔维亚人培养出了一些真正优秀的足球运动员。
Kolia
Yep less money for hospitals in France, but we host next Olympics...
是的，法国的医院缺钱，但是我们主办下一届奥运会……
Yep less money for hospitals in France, but we host next Olympics...
是的，法国的医院缺钱，但是我们主办下一届奥运会……
ራስ ባሪያው Rass Bariaw
Any resolution?
有什么解决方案吗？
Any resolution?
有什么解决方案吗？
raw egg consumer
I think there, sadly, need to be more idiosyncratic policies vis-a-vis healthcare in a demographically collapsed society such as Serbia. That money, of course, should not be used to build stadiums either.
可悲的是，我认为在塞尔维亚这样一个人口结构崩溃的社会中，需要针对医疗保健制定更独特的政策。当然，这笔钱也不应该用于建造体育场。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I think there, sadly, need to be more idiosyncratic policies vis-a-vis healthcare in a demographically collapsed society such as Serbia. That money, of course, should not be used to build stadiums either.
可悲的是，我认为在塞尔维亚这样一个人口结构崩溃的社会中，需要针对医疗保健制定更独特的政策。当然，这笔钱也不应该用于建造体育场。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Lu
The thing that baffles me the most is that a CT scan is a high tech high cost tool. There are SO MANY other techs that have a fraction of the cost of the CT that would make the average health of the population so much better. There are communities everywhere that have no doctors.
最让我困惑的是，CT扫描是一种高科技、高成本的工具。还有很多其他技术的成本只相当于CT扫描的一小部分，这将使人们的平均健康状况更好。到处都有没有医生的社区。
The thing that baffles me the most is that a CT scan is a high tech high cost tool. There are SO MANY other techs that have a fraction of the cost of the CT that would make the average health of the population so much better. There are communities everywhere that have no doctors.
最让我困惑的是，CT扫描是一种高科技、高成本的工具。还有很多其他技术的成本只相当于CT扫描的一小部分，这将使人们的平均健康状况更好。到处都有没有医生的社区。
Fat Shrimp
Singapore is another country that got it right. Govt really cares about the citizens there.
新加坡是另一个做对了的国家。政府真的很关心那里的公民。
後宮
Singapore is another country that got it right. Govt really cares about the citizens there.
新加坡是另一个做对了的国家。政府真的很关心那里的公民。
後宮
The main problem is that you educate the doctors and they leave for the richer country/region
主要问题是你教育出医生，他们却去了更富裕的国家/地区。
主要问题是你教育出医生，他们却去了更富裕的国家/地区。
Athought
Nice one, China make their own CT and MRI's from united imagine, already took 36% market, also expanding overseas, the product much cheaper and in very good quality.
干的很棒，中国已经有联影医疗这样的公司可以制造自己的 CT 和 MRI 机器了，已经占领了36%的市场，也在海外扩张，产品便宜得多，质量也很好。
Nice one, China make their own CT and MRI's from united imagine, already took 36% market, also expanding overseas, the product much cheaper and in very good quality.
干的很棒，中国已经有联影医疗这样的公司可以制造自己的 CT 和 MRI 机器了，已经占领了36%的市场，也在海外扩张，产品便宜得多，质量也很好。
Chris T
In Ontario Canada, a problem is criminal politicians who do things behind closed doors. It was reported former Premier Mike Harris slashed healthcare. Many nurses lost full-time jobs. Harris’ wife started a healthcare staffing agency & charged the hospitals 1.5x-3x per hour.
在加拿大安大略省，一个问题是那些在背后偷偷摸摸做事的犯罪政客。
据报道，前总理 Mike Harris 大幅削减医疗保健。许多护士失去了全职工作。Harris 的妻子创办了一家医疗机构，向医院收取每小时1.5倍-3倍的费用。
In Ontario Canada, a problem is criminal politicians who do things behind closed doors. It was reported former Premier Mike Harris slashed healthcare. Many nurses lost full-time jobs. Harris’ wife started a healthcare staffing agency & charged the hospitals 1.5x-3x per hour.
在加拿大安大略省，一个问题是那些在背后偷偷摸摸做事的犯罪政客。
据报道，前总理 Mike Harris 大幅削减医疗保健。许多护士失去了全职工作。Harris 的妻子创办了一家医疗机构，向医院收取每小时1.5倍-3倍的费用。
SerpinA5Mystic Free Palestine & We Free the World
US healthcare was taken over by Rothschild family back in the late 1800s, I believe. American Medical Assn. was bought then and Big Pharma was born and if there isn't BIG BUCKS to be had by the TOP Elites, US is not interested in it bc they HATE THE PEASANTS. Killing them Drugs
我相信，早在19世纪末，美国的医疗保健就被罗斯柴尔德家族接管了。当时，美国医学协会被收购，大型制药公司诞生了。
如果不能让顶尖的精英，大把大把的赚钱，美国就不会对这个项目感兴趣，因为美国讨厌小佃农，用毒品杀死他们。
US healthcare was taken over by Rothschild family back in the late 1800s, I believe. American Medical Assn. was bought then and Big Pharma was born and if there isn't BIG BUCKS to be had by the TOP Elites, US is not interested in it bc they HATE THE PEASANTS. Killing them Drugs
我相信，早在19世纪末，美国的医疗保健就被罗斯柴尔德家族接管了。当时，美国医学协会被收购，大型制药公司诞生了。
如果不能让顶尖的精英，大把大把的赚钱，美国就不会对这个项目感兴趣，因为美国讨厌小佃农，用毒品杀死他们。
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