中国的绿色长城能否阻止沙漠蔓延？（下）
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@Blue1Sapphire
Better to do what they are doing then nothing.
All farming on land require one very important thing. A healthy soil that is alive with micro organisms.
Get that right and u can grow plants.
Plenty get it wrong and destroy the soil over time, leading to all sorts of degradation issues.
做他们正在做的事情总比什么都不做更好。
所有的土地耕作都需要一个非常重要的条件，即一个充满微生物的健康土壤。
做好这一点，就能种植植物。
很多人都犯了错误，随着时间的推移，土壤被破坏并导致了各种退化问题。
Better to do what they are doing then nothing.
All farming on land require one very important thing. A healthy soil that is alive with micro organisms.
Get that right and u can grow plants.
Plenty get it wrong and destroy the soil over time, leading to all sorts of degradation issues.
做他们正在做的事情总比什么都不做更好。
所有的土地耕作都需要一个非常重要的条件，即一个充满微生物的健康土壤。
做好这一点，就能种植植物。
很多人都犯了错误，随着时间的推移，土壤被破坏并导致了各种退化问题。
@SecularMentat
I'm rather fond of how they're doing it in the Sahara, they're reshaping the sand to catch moisture. Then using several species of plants to help reinforce those structures. Then putting in trees.
I see in China they're doing terracing, but they'll likely have to do something like what they're doing with the Sahara in the flatter parts of the Gobi.
我比较喜欢撒哈拉沙漠的做法，他们重塑沙地以吸收水分，然后用几种植物来加固这些结构，然后再种树。
我看到中国正在修梯田，但他们很可能要在戈壁较平坦的地方采用类似撒哈拉沙漠的做法。
I'm rather fond of how they're doing it in the Sahara, they're reshaping the sand to catch moisture. Then using several species of plants to help reinforce those structures. Then putting in trees.
I see in China they're doing terracing, but they'll likely have to do something like what they're doing with the Sahara in the flatter parts of the Gobi.
我比较喜欢撒哈拉沙漠的做法，他们重塑沙地以吸收水分，然后用几种植物来加固这些结构，然后再种树。
我看到中国正在修梯田，但他们很可能要在戈壁较平坦的地方采用类似撒哈拉沙漠的做法。
@eric2500
Mossy Earth reports that these monoculture forests did not do so well, because they planted monoculture trees from foreign shores instead of desert adapted species that are native. Those trees suck up water even more and were used for lumber, not let to rot into the soil and enrich it.
Mossy Earth also reports that they have started to plant native species and that is working better.
Numbers of trees don't well as native trees, shrubs, insects and animal life that is adapted to the desert. Yeah, it is slower that way, but you can keep it.
据《苔藓地球》（Mossy Earth）报道，这些单一树种的森林并不理想，因为他们种植的是来自外国的单一树种，而不是适应沙漠的本地树种。这些树吸水更多，被用来当做木材，而不是让它们烂在土壤里，使土壤变得肥沃。
《苔藓地球》（Mossy Earth）也报道说，他们已经开始种植本地树种，而且效果更好。
是的，虽然这样会慢一些，但你可以保留住它。
Mossy Earth reports that these monoculture forests did not do so well, because they planted monoculture trees from foreign shores instead of desert adapted species that are native. Those trees suck up water even more and were used for lumber, not let to rot into the soil and enrich it.
Mossy Earth also reports that they have started to plant native species and that is working better.
Numbers of trees don't well as native trees, shrubs, insects and animal life that is adapted to the desert. Yeah, it is slower that way, but you can keep it.
据《苔藓地球》（Mossy Earth）报道，这些单一树种的森林并不理想，因为他们种植的是来自外国的单一树种，而不是适应沙漠的本地树种。这些树吸水更多，被用来当做木材，而不是让它们烂在土壤里，使土壤变得肥沃。
《苔藓地球》（Mossy Earth）也报道说，他们已经开始种植本地树种，而且效果更好。
是的，虽然这样会慢一些，但你可以保留住它。
@geraldnemanishen5079
My criticism is they are growing another "crop" all be it with significant carbon capture. As commented below (Mossy Earth), for increasing biodiversity you need to mix the species planted using local adapted species and creat a "forest". Even in a forest, there is a potential for harvest if that is one aim of the project.
我的批评是他们正在种植另一种"作物"，而这一切都需要大量的碳捕获。正如下文（苔藓地球）所评论的那样，要增加生物多样性，就需要利用适应当地的物种来混合种植并创造出一片"森林"。即使在森林中，如果这是该项目的目标之一，也有可能会有收获。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
My criticism is they are growing another "crop" all be it with significant carbon capture. As commented below (Mossy Earth), for increasing biodiversity you need to mix the species planted using local adapted species and creat a "forest". Even in a forest, there is a potential for harvest if that is one aim of the project.
我的批评是他们正在种植另一种"作物"，而这一切都需要大量的碳捕获。正如下文（苔藓地球）所评论的那样，要增加生物多样性，就需要利用适应当地的物种来混合种植并创造出一片"森林"。即使在森林中，如果这是该项目的目标之一，也有可能会有收获。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@supriadiramlan5545
that kind of re greening the desert should follow in Africa and Australia so more land can become productive as agriculture , water retention and hopefully lower planet temperature
这种重新绿化沙漠的做法应该在非洲和澳大利亚推广，这样更多的土地就能成为农业用地、水源涵养地，并有望降低地球的温度。
that kind of re greening the desert should follow in Africa and Australia so more land can become productive as agriculture , water retention and hopefully lower planet temperature
这种重新绿化沙漠的做法应该在非洲和澳大利亚推广，这样更多的土地就能成为农业用地、水源涵养地，并有望降低地球的温度。
@danielthompson3205
Yes it can stop desertification.. _-name coined back round 2000, when I first heard of it
But as it is. It will take time. Money, water and care.
是的，它可以阻止荒漠化，我第一次听说这个名词是在2000年。
但现在的情况是这需要时间、钱、水和关怀。
Yes it can stop desertification.. _-name coined back round 2000, when I first heard of it
But as it is. It will take time. Money, water and care.
是的，它可以阻止荒漠化，我第一次听说这个名词是在2000年。
但现在的情况是这需要时间、钱、水和关怀。
@bryanbeast8662
All I saw in that video was a monoculture mixed with green washing propaganda. I did not see any food plants or recognize any nitrogen fixing plants in that video. It will be interesting to see how this project looks 20 years from now.
我在视频中看到的只是单一种植和绿色洗涤的宣传。我在视频中没有看到任何食用植物，也认不出任何固氮植物。看看这个项目20年后的样子会很有趣。
All I saw in that video was a monoculture mixed with green washing propaganda. I did not see any food plants or recognize any nitrogen fixing plants in that video. It will be interesting to see how this project looks 20 years from now.
我在视频中看到的只是单一种植和绿色洗涤的宣传。我在视频中没有看到任何食用植物，也认不出任何固氮植物。看看这个项目20年后的样子会很有趣。
@noralinn910
The stock footage makes it hard to know which footage is actually related to this project and which image are just a random rain forest or cabbage field. Please highlight unrelated footage to avoid misleading the viewers.
这些素材让人很难分辨哪些是与该项目相关的素材，哪些是雨林或白菜地，请突出不相关的画面以免误导观众。
The stock footage makes it hard to know which footage is actually related to this project and which image are just a random rain forest or cabbage field. Please highlight unrelated footage to avoid misleading the viewers.
这些素材让人很难分辨哪些是与该项目相关的素材，哪些是雨林或白菜地，请突出不相关的画面以免误导观众。
@kaptenhiu5623
Where tjey get the water for this massive project? Groundwater? And can this new forest sustain itself without human intervention?. Gobi is a desert because it located too far inland, so any rain clouds from the sea cannot reach it. Also it doesn't have any big river system whatsoever. I highly doubt that this forest would be sustainable.
这么大的工程，水从哪里来？地下水？在没有人类干预的情况下，这片新森林能否自我维持？戈壁之所以是沙漠，是因为它地处内陆，任何来自海洋的雨云都无法到达。此外，它也没有任何大的河流系统，我非常怀疑这片森林能否持续下去。
Where tjey get the water for this massive project? Groundwater? And can this new forest sustain itself without human intervention?. Gobi is a desert because it located too far inland, so any rain clouds from the sea cannot reach it. Also it doesn't have any big river system whatsoever. I highly doubt that this forest would be sustainable.
这么大的工程，水从哪里来？地下水？在没有人类干预的情况下，这片新森林能否自我维持？戈壁之所以是沙漠，是因为它地处内陆，任何来自海洋的雨云都无法到达。此外，它也没有任何大的河流系统，我非常怀疑这片森林能否持续下去。
@catsilly819
The few people in the comment section should really buy a mirror and think about how qualified you are to make strange comments without knowing the full picture. China plants more trees each year than the rest of the world combined and you can check this straight from Google Academics, and the only reason you don't know about it is because a lot of people don't want you to know, there are countless technologies and experiences about tree planting comes from it that can be extended to other Asia and Africa countries. While someone's hometown will only have a lot of "Greta" in private jets to attend the UN meeting, it is difficult for Chinese people to listen to some country with full house air conditioning and private jets and also not even be able to controlling forest fires to teach others how to "environmental protection"and "carbon emission" .Just like Taylor Swift wouldn't let me teach her how to sing.
评论区的几个人真应该买一面镜子，想想自己有多大的资格在不了解全貌的情况下发表奇谈怪论。中国每年种植的树木比世界上其他国家种植的树木总和还要多，这一点你可以直接从谷歌学术上查到，你不知道的唯一原因是很多人不想让你知道，中国的植树技术和经验数不胜数，可以推广到其他亚非国家。别人的家乡有很多“格蕾塔”开着私人飞机去参加联合国会议，而中国人却要听一些满屋空调和私人飞机，甚至连森林火灾都控制不了的国家教别人如何“环保”和“碳排放”。
The few people in the comment section should really buy a mirror and think about how qualified you are to make strange comments without knowing the full picture. China plants more trees each year than the rest of the world combined and you can check this straight from Google Academics, and the only reason you don't know about it is because a lot of people don't want you to know, there are countless technologies and experiences about tree planting comes from it that can be extended to other Asia and Africa countries. While someone's hometown will only have a lot of "Greta" in private jets to attend the UN meeting, it is difficult for Chinese people to listen to some country with full house air conditioning and private jets and also not even be able to controlling forest fires to teach others how to "environmental protection"and "carbon emission" .Just like Taylor Swift wouldn't let me teach her how to sing.
评论区的几个人真应该买一面镜子，想想自己有多大的资格在不了解全貌的情况下发表奇谈怪论。中国每年种植的树木比世界上其他国家种植的树木总和还要多，这一点你可以直接从谷歌学术上查到，你不知道的唯一原因是很多人不想让你知道，中国的植树技术和经验数不胜数，可以推广到其他亚非国家。别人的家乡有很多“格蕾塔”开着私人飞机去参加联合国会议，而中国人却要听一些满屋空调和私人飞机，甚至连森林火灾都控制不了的国家教别人如何“环保”和“碳排放”。
@daffyduck4195
There have been several setbacks in the reforestation of the desert, particularly with certain trees failing to withstand the intense desert heat. As a result, a significant portion of land needs to be reforested. Despite decades of reforestation efforts to combat sandstorms, Beijing was hit by a major one last year, covering the city in a thick layer of sand. Despite satellite photos showing a true greening transformation of the Gobi desert, in that shocking moment, it seemed that all their hard toil came to naught, that their efforts were in vain and minuscule against the giant tide of Climate Change, which many disheartened people suspected.
中国在沙漠重新造林遇到了一些挫折，特别是某些树木无法承受沙漠的酷热。因此，有很大一部分土地需要重新造林。尽管数十年来一直在努力植树造林以抗击沙尘暴，但去年北京还是遭受了一次严重的沙尘暴袭击，整个城市被厚厚的沙层覆盖。尽管卫星照片显示戈壁沙漠确实发生了绿化变化，但在那个令人震惊的时刻，他们的辛勤劳动似乎化为乌有，他们的努力在气候变化的巨大浪潮面前是徒劳的，是微不足道的。
There have been several setbacks in the reforestation of the desert, particularly with certain trees failing to withstand the intense desert heat. As a result, a significant portion of land needs to be reforested. Despite decades of reforestation efforts to combat sandstorms, Beijing was hit by a major one last year, covering the city in a thick layer of sand. Despite satellite photos showing a true greening transformation of the Gobi desert, in that shocking moment, it seemed that all their hard toil came to naught, that their efforts were in vain and minuscule against the giant tide of Climate Change, which many disheartened people suspected.
中国在沙漠重新造林遇到了一些挫折，特别是某些树木无法承受沙漠的酷热。因此，有很大一部分土地需要重新造林。尽管数十年来一直在努力植树造林以抗击沙尘暴，但去年北京还是遭受了一次严重的沙尘暴袭击，整个城市被厚厚的沙层覆盖。尽管卫星照片显示戈壁沙漠确实发生了绿化变化，但在那个令人震惊的时刻，他们的辛勤劳动似乎化为乌有，他们的努力在气候变化的巨大浪潮面前是徒劳的，是微不足道的。
@teemum.9023
0:14 by this I heard the first wrong assumption: That the Chinese markets work by free enterprise which was allowed to happen due to government reaching for urbanization. But China is a central command economy where projects are ordered by the government
0:14 我听到了第一个错误的假设：中国的市场是由自由企业运作的，而自由企业的出现是由于政府推动了城市化。但中国是中央命令式经济，其项目都由政府下达命令。
0:14 by this I heard the first wrong assumption: That the Chinese markets work by free enterprise which was allowed to happen due to government reaching for urbanization. But China is a central command economy where projects are ordered by the government
0:14 我听到了第一个错误的假设：中国的市场是由自由企业运作的，而自由企业的出现是由于政府推动了城市化。但中国是中央命令式经济，其项目都由政府下达命令。
weacro
The issue with there method is they think the Green is going to stop the brown when it's been proven that furtile soils is what stops desertification. The best way to have that happen is to have some kind of livestock graze the land in the migratory pattern. The eating and stomping of the old grasses and bushes will put nutrients back into the soil top that with the fertilizer the live stock leaves behind and you'll have a lush green forest where once was a desert in under 12 years.
这种方法的问题在于他们认为"绿色"可以阻止"褐色"，而事实证明肥沃的土壤才是阻止沙漠化的关键。要做到这一点，最好的办法就是让某种牲畜以迁徙的方式在土地上吃草，啃食和践踏老草和灌木丛会将养分放回土壤表层，再加上牲畜留下的肥料，12年之内，曾经是沙漠的地方就会变成郁郁葱葱的森林。
The issue with there method is they think the Green is going to stop the brown when it's been proven that furtile soils is what stops desertification. The best way to have that happen is to have some kind of livestock graze the land in the migratory pattern. The eating and stomping of the old grasses and bushes will put nutrients back into the soil top that with the fertilizer the live stock leaves behind and you'll have a lush green forest where once was a desert in under 12 years.
这种方法的问题在于他们认为"绿色"可以阻止"褐色"，而事实证明肥沃的土壤才是阻止沙漠化的关键。要做到这一点，最好的办法就是让某种牲畜以迁徙的方式在土地上吃草，啃食和践踏老草和灌木丛会将养分放回土壤表层，再加上牲畜留下的肥料，12年之内，曾经是沙漠的地方就会变成郁郁葱葱的森林。
@danguee1
Planting monoculture is still just 'using' the earth. China needed to take the approach that natural forest with diverse species could be used for those benefits: and forego the timber plantation mentality part of their equation. Their greed will backfire.
种植单一作物仍然只是在"利用"土地。中国需要采取的方法是利用物种多样的天然林来实现这些利益，而放弃他们等式中的木材种植心态部分。他们的贪婪将适得其反。
Planting monoculture is still just 'using' the earth. China needed to take the approach that natural forest with diverse species could be used for those benefits: and forego the timber plantation mentality part of their equation. Their greed will backfire.
种植单一作物仍然只是在"利用"土地。中国需要采取的方法是利用物种多样的天然林来实现这些利益，而放弃他们等式中的木材种植心态部分。他们的贪婪将适得其反。
@sauravsidhant
All of these afforestation projects are ill-informed. They have created barren greenery, Oxymoron, I know.
These are MONOCULTURE plantations, while they look great but are quite dead and can't support much life, forget about supporting an ecosystem.
They all consist of a large batch of a single type of trees, to grow and be harvested with minimum effort.
They do not help conserve the ecosystem but rather push the local flora and fauna out, and create a dead zone.
If you want to appreciate impactful forestation projects, check the Scottish Highland and Glasgow by Mossy Earth, The Arravali Range by MCD, Projects by Plant Wild and even Africa's Great Green Wall, while in infancy is so much better.
所有这些植树造林项目都是不明智的，因为它们创造了贫瘠的绿色。
这些都是单一栽培的种植园，虽然看起来不错，但死气沉沉，无法养活太多的生命，也就谈不上支持生态系统了。
它们都是由一大批单一类型的树木组成的，以最小的代价生长和收获。
它们不仅无助于保护生态系统，反而会把当地的动植物赶出去，造成一片死地。
如果你想欣赏有影响力的造林项目，可以去看看Mossy Earth的苏格兰高地和格拉斯哥、MCD的阿拉瓦里山脉、Plant Wild的项目，甚至非洲的绿色长城，虽然还在起步阶段，但已经好很多了。
All of these afforestation projects are ill-informed. They have created barren greenery, Oxymoron, I know.
These are MONOCULTURE plantations, while they look great but are quite dead and can't support much life, forget about supporting an ecosystem.
They all consist of a large batch of a single type of trees, to grow and be harvested with minimum effort.
They do not help conserve the ecosystem but rather push the local flora and fauna out, and create a dead zone.
If you want to appreciate impactful forestation projects, check the Scottish Highland and Glasgow by Mossy Earth, The Arravali Range by MCD, Projects by Plant Wild and even Africa's Great Green Wall, while in infancy is so much better.
所有这些植树造林项目都是不明智的，因为它们创造了贫瘠的绿色。
这些都是单一栽培的种植园，虽然看起来不错，但死气沉沉，无法养活太多的生命，也就谈不上支持生态系统了。
它们都是由一大批单一类型的树木组成的，以最小的代价生长和收获。
它们不仅无助于保护生态系统，反而会把当地的动植物赶出去，造成一片死地。
如果你想欣赏有影响力的造林项目，可以去看看Mossy Earth的苏格兰高地和格拉斯哥、MCD的阿拉瓦里山脉、Plant Wild的项目，甚至非洲的绿色长城，虽然还在起步阶段，但已经好很多了。
@michaeldeierhoi4096
The biggest problem with China's green forest wall initiative is the use of monocultures to address the problem. Pkanting one species of tree through a large area will dramatically reduce diversity of life in that area and this in turn will lead to a less resilient forest to insect invaders as well as the desert that they seek to prevent from expanding.
Monocultures are also a poor hedge against climate change and take up far less CO2 than a diverse forest.
中国绿色森林墙计划的最大问题在于使用单一树种来解决问题。在一大片土地上种植一种树种会大大降低该地区的生物多样性，这反过来又会导致森林对昆虫入侵者的抵御能力下降，同时也会导致他们想要防止的沙漠扩大。
单一树种也不能很好地抵御气候变化，其吸收的二氧化碳远低于多样性森林。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The biggest problem with China's green forest wall initiative is the use of monocultures to address the problem. Pkanting one species of tree through a large area will dramatically reduce diversity of life in that area and this in turn will lead to a less resilient forest to insect invaders as well as the desert that they seek to prevent from expanding.
Monocultures are also a poor hedge against climate change and take up far less CO2 than a diverse forest.
中国绿色森林墙计划的最大问题在于使用单一树种来解决问题。在一大片土地上种植一种树种会大大降低该地区的生物多样性，这反过来又会导致森林对昆虫入侵者的抵御能力下降，同时也会导致他们想要防止的沙漠扩大。
单一树种也不能很好地抵御气候变化，其吸收的二氧化碳远低于多样性森林。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
@nicolasbertin8552
Planting trees is actually often a bad method for restoring ecosystems. If you can mitigate wind and erosion first, with earthworks and other methods, then the vegetation will come back naturally and diversity will be optimal. Soil contains old native seeds by the billions. Assisted regeneration is then more effective. For once, it's cheaper. You don't need to plant, you don't need to sow, you don't need to water. And the issue with monoculture is not that is drains nutrients. No plant on earth does that. The issue is that it grows slowly, coz different families of plants will exchange nutrients through bacterias and fungi. Since different families of plants are good at different things (some extract potassium better, for some it's nitrogen etc...) and they exchange the excess, it all grows faster and stronger this way. So why do we still plant big trees ? Coz people STILL make their livestock graze in a lot of these areas, so when native plants germinate they're imediately taken off by grazing animals. That's why it is paramount to fence off livestock when doing this project, however that involves paying off farmers, and it's ain't cheap... Farmers are stubborn, and need to understand what's at stake here. It's the whole ecosystem, even the whole planet's climate.
实际上，植树往往不是恢复生态系统的好方法。如果能先通过土方工程和其他方法减轻风力和水土流失，那么植被就会自然恢复，多样性也会达到最佳状态。土壤中含有数十亿颗古老的本地种子。这样，辅助再生就会更加有效。这一次，它的成本更低。你不需要种植，不需要播种，不需要浇水。单一种植的问题并不在于耗费养分，问题在于它生长缓慢，因为不同科的植物会通过细菌和真菌交换养分。由于不同科的植物擅长不同的领域（有些植物更擅长钾的提取，有些植物更擅长氮的提取......），它们会交换多余的养分，因此所有植物都能以这种方式生长得更快、更强壮。那我们为什么还要种植大树呢？因为人们仍然让牲畜在这些地区放牧，所以当本地植物发芽时，它们马上就会被放牧的牲畜吃掉。这就是为什么在做这个项目时，最重要的是要把牲畜围起来，但这需要付钱给农民，而这并不便宜...... 农民们很固执，他们需要明白这其中的利害关系。这是一整个生态系统，甚至关系到整个地球的气候。
Planting trees is actually often a bad method for restoring ecosystems. If you can mitigate wind and erosion first, with earthworks and other methods, then the vegetation will come back naturally and diversity will be optimal. Soil contains old native seeds by the billions. Assisted regeneration is then more effective. For once, it's cheaper. You don't need to plant, you don't need to sow, you don't need to water. And the issue with monoculture is not that is drains nutrients. No plant on earth does that. The issue is that it grows slowly, coz different families of plants will exchange nutrients through bacterias and fungi. Since different families of plants are good at different things (some extract potassium better, for some it's nitrogen etc...) and they exchange the excess, it all grows faster and stronger this way. So why do we still plant big trees ? Coz people STILL make their livestock graze in a lot of these areas, so when native plants germinate they're imediately taken off by grazing animals. That's why it is paramount to fence off livestock when doing this project, however that involves paying off farmers, and it's ain't cheap... Farmers are stubborn, and need to understand what's at stake here. It's the whole ecosystem, even the whole planet's climate.
实际上，植树往往不是恢复生态系统的好方法。如果能先通过土方工程和其他方法减轻风力和水土流失，那么植被就会自然恢复，多样性也会达到最佳状态。土壤中含有数十亿颗古老的本地种子。这样，辅助再生就会更加有效。这一次，它的成本更低。你不需要种植，不需要播种，不需要浇水。单一种植的问题并不在于耗费养分，问题在于它生长缓慢，因为不同科的植物会通过细菌和真菌交换养分。由于不同科的植物擅长不同的领域（有些植物更擅长钾的提取，有些植物更擅长氮的提取......），它们会交换多余的养分，因此所有植物都能以这种方式生长得更快、更强壮。那我们为什么还要种植大树呢？因为人们仍然让牲畜在这些地区放牧，所以当本地植物发芽时，它们马上就会被放牧的牲畜吃掉。这就是为什么在做这个项目时，最重要的是要把牲畜围起来，但这需要付钱给农民，而这并不便宜...... 农民们很固执，他们需要明白这其中的利害关系。这是一整个生态系统，甚至关系到整个地球的气候。
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