欧盟圈讨论：为什么南欧人更倾向于挑战权威，而北欧人更倾向于谨守规矩？
正文翻译
As a Southern European living in Northern Europe, it has always seemed to me that Southerners often challenge authority, while Northerners seem to stick to the rules. Why would that be?
作为一个生活在北欧的南欧人，在我看来，南方人经常挑战权威，而北方人似乎谨守规则。为什么会这样？
As a Southern European living in Northern Europe, it has always seemed to me that Southerners often challenge authority, while Northerners seem to stick to the rules. Why would that be?
作为一个生活在北欧的南欧人，在我看来，南方人经常挑战权威，而北方人似乎谨守规则。为什么会这样？
What I originally meant by "rebelliousness" was the tendency to go against unspoken rules and social norms, to be more chaotic in social circumstances, and to display overall carelessness. These traits are far more typical in countries like Italy, Greece, Albania, Spain, Croatia, Macedonia, and the like, than in the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and so forth.
我所说的“叛逆”，本意是指违背潜规则和社会规范、在社会环境中更为混乱无序、表现出粗心大意的倾向。这些特征在意大利、希腊、阿尔巴尼亚、西班牙、克罗地亚、马其顿等国，比在英国、荷兰、卢森堡、德国、丹麦、瑞典等国更典型。
我所说的“叛逆”，本意是指违背潜规则和社会规范、在社会环境中更为混乱无序、表现出粗心大意的倾向。这些特征在意大利、希腊、阿尔巴尼亚、西班牙、克罗地亚、马其顿等国，比在英国、荷兰、卢森堡、德国、丹麦、瑞典等国更典型。
As a note, I am Italian and currently reside in the United Kingdom, where most people do "the done thing" simply because it is expected. In Italy, on the other hand, people tend to question most things.
需要说明的是，我是意大利人，现居英国，在那里大多数人做“被社会接受的事情”纯是因为这符合社会预期。另一方面，在意大利，人们倾向于质疑大多数事情。
需要说明的是，我是意大利人，现居英国，在那里大多数人做“被社会接受的事情”纯是因为这符合社会预期。另一方面，在意大利，人们倾向于质疑大多数事情。
评论翻译
daffoduck
Like to know this too, seeing how France (world champion of strikes and demonstrations) does things, and how we do thing in Norway - the difference is mind boggeling.
（挪）我也想知道答案，看看法国（罢工和示威的世界冠军）是怎么做事的，以及我们在挪威是怎么做事的，差异之大让人难以置信。
Like to know this too, seeing how France (world champion of strikes and demonstrations) does things, and how we do thing in Norway - the difference is mind boggeling.
（挪）我也想知道答案，看看法国（罢工和示威的世界冠军）是怎么做事的，以及我们在挪威是怎么做事的，差异之大让人难以置信。
I have a sneaking feeling we have more trust in the system here in Norway, protests are mostly just people and politicans discussing things in the media.
Going out to demonstrate is really niche behavior. I guess weather and population density also plays a part.
我隐约有种感觉，我们对挪威的制度更信任，抗议活动大多不过是老百姓和政客在媒体上讨论事情。
上街示威确实是小众行为。我猜天气和人口密度也是一部分因素。
Going out to demonstrate is really niche behavior. I guess weather and population density also plays a part.
我隐约有种感觉，我们对挪威的制度更信任，抗议活动大多不过是老百姓和政客在媒体上讨论事情。
上街示威确实是小众行为。我猜天气和人口密度也是一部分因素。
It works the way it does in France because the system is broken and the people cannot influence and make itself heard any other way. The government basically does whatever it wants, there's very little separation of powers, and we've got a sort of very weird system that's neither presidential nor parliamentarian.
↘（法）法国的方式是有效的，因为其体制已经失灵，人们已经无法用其他任何方式发挥影响力或让自己的意见被听到了。基本上政府可以为所欲为，几乎没有分权这回事，而且我们这套体制非常奇怪，既不是总统制也不是议会制。
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↘（法）法国的方式是有效的，因为其体制已经失灵，人们已经无法用其他任何方式发挥影响力或让自己的意见被听到了。基本上政府可以为所欲为，几乎没有分权这回事，而且我们这套体制非常奇怪，既不是总统制也不是议会制。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It's not for our pleasure, everyone would love another way of doing things. Oh and the French president is one of the most powerful ones in the world, a shit ton of power and very little blockages put in place to stop them. We basically killed the king to have a slightly less powerful one, but still fucking too powerful
这么干也不是为了取乐，所有人都会喜欢别国的做事方式。哦对了，法国总统是世界上最有权势的总统之一，手拥巨大的权力，却几乎没有任何限制措施来阻止他们。从根本上说，我们是杀掉了国王，得到的却是另一个权势稍小的国王，但这种权势仍然过大。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
这么干也不是为了取乐，所有人都会喜欢别国的做事方式。哦对了，法国总统是世界上最有权势的总统之一，手拥巨大的权力，却几乎没有任何限制措施来阻止他们。从根本上说，我们是杀掉了国王，得到的却是另一个权势稍小的国王，但这种权势仍然过大。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You advantage is a (internationally) homogenous, unicultural country, with strong regional pride, regional cultures and an ingrown "Norwegianness", - in other words, a predictable society with a trustworthy culture - an advantage which is fast going away.
↘（法）你们的优势在于，你们是一个（以国际视角看）同质化、单一文化的国家，怀有强烈的地区自豪感，拥有地区文化和根深蒂固的“挪威性”，换句话说，是一个具有可信赖文化的可预测的社会，顺便一说，这种优势很快就会消失。
↘（法）你们的优势在于，你们是一个（以国际视角看）同质化、单一文化的国家，怀有强烈的地区自豪感，拥有地区文化和根深蒂固的“挪威性”，换句话说，是一个具有可信赖文化的可预测的社会，顺便一说，这种优势很快就会消失。
France is a remnant of an empire - with an undemocratic centralized presidential-dictatorship style government, which has to deal with a parasitical predatory internationalist "we go where money is" overclass, and a disloyal, foreign, invasive, parasitical, underclass, which means - those "strikes" are probably the only thing right now which prevents a civil war, and yet a civil war in an unavoidable future for France (aka the fate of all empires).
法国属于帝国残余，拥有不民主的中央集权总统独裁式政府，它不得不去应付寄生成性、掠夺成性者的“逐利型”国际主义超级权贵阶级，以及来自外国迅速扩散、既不忠诚又寄生成性的下层阶级，这就意味着，这些“罢工”可能是目前能阻止内战的唯一做法，但对法国来说，内战是未来不可避免的（又即所有帝国的命运）。
法国属于帝国残余，拥有不民主的中央集权总统独裁式政府，它不得不去应付寄生成性、掠夺成性者的“逐利型”国际主义超级权贵阶级，以及来自外国迅速扩散、既不忠诚又寄生成性的下层阶级，这就意味着，这些“罢工”可能是目前能阻止内战的唯一做法，但对法国来说，内战是未来不可避免的（又即所有帝国的命运）。
You're way too quaint and too rural up there. I do hope you stay that way, because the opposite would mean a complete destruction of your society and your way of life, I wouldn't really wish it on my enemy even.
你们那里太古怪、太村了。我真心希望你们保持这种状态，因为若情况相反，将意味着你们的社会和生活方式彻底被毁灭，我甚至不希望这样的事情发生在我的敌人身上。
你们那里太古怪、太村了。我真心希望你们保持这种状态，因为若情况相反，将意味着你们的社会和生活方式彻底被毁灭，我甚至不希望这样的事情发生在我的敌人身上。
italyspain2021
I don't think anyone has yet mentioned it, so I'll add this: The weather.
When it's a warm sunny day I am more relaxed, I'm enjoying myself more. More care-free. I care less about what others are doing. Especially outside and away from my home. Why would I? Sun's out and I'm out.
我寻思还没有人提到过，所以我来补充一点：天气。
当天气温暖、阳光明媚时，我会更放松，更享受自我。更无忧无虑。我不太在意别人在干什么。尤其是外面，以及远离我家的地方。有什么可在意的？太阳出来了，我也出来了。
I don't think anyone has yet mentioned it, so I'll add this: The weather.
When it's a warm sunny day I am more relaxed, I'm enjoying myself more. More care-free. I care less about what others are doing. Especially outside and away from my home. Why would I? Sun's out and I'm out.
我寻思还没有人提到过，所以我来补充一点：天气。
当天气温暖、阳光明媚时，我会更放松，更享受自我。更无忧无虑。我不太在意别人在干什么。尤其是外面，以及远离我家的地方。有什么可在意的？太阳出来了，我也出来了。
When it's cold and dark and I'm experiencing the infinite shades of perpetual grey the UK exhibits , I become more annoyed at other people who are not following rules. There is no leeway. We are having to share this smaller indoor space together and I need you to not put your feet on the seat, to not park your car on the kerb where I will now have to walk into the road, etc.
而当又冷又黑的时候（我正在体验英国展示给我的无穷无尽的灰色色调），我对其他不遵守规则的人就会更加恼火。没有回旋余地。我们不得不一起分享这个较小的室内空间，我需要你不把脚放在座位上，不把你的车停在路边，因为我现在必须走到马路上，等等。
而当又冷又黑的时候（我正在体验英国展示给我的无穷无尽的灰色色调），我对其他不遵守规则的人就会更加恼火。没有回旋余地。我们不得不一起分享这个较小的室内空间，我需要你不把脚放在座位上，不把你的车停在路边，因为我现在必须走到马路上，等等。
The climate will kill you, unless you are prepared, for roughly half the year. You need to trust your neighbors, to have food and firewood ready, to know that it will be allright. If things go bad, you need help from others, or you will die. This requires a tight community, and a willingness to plan ahead.
↘除非你做好准备，否则在半年左右的时间里，气候会杀死你。你需要信任你的邻居，需要备好食物和柴火，需要知道情况无虞。如果情况恶化，你需要别人的帮助，不然你就会死。这就需要那种关系紧密的社区，以及未雨绸缪的意愿。
↘除非你做好准备，否则在半年左右的时间里，气候会杀死你。你需要信任你的邻居，需要备好食物和柴火，需要知道情况无虞。如果情况恶化，你需要别人的帮助，不然你就会死。这就需要那种关系紧密的社区，以及未雨绸缪的意愿。
bmt76
It's flipping COLD up here, so during winter, nobody feels like protesting. And when it's actually sunny and warm, we all turn our faces towards the sun and soak up much needed vitamin-d.
Also, we mostly trust our governments, and since we're quite reserved, we aren't really comfortable protesting in the streets.
（挪）这里冷得要死，所以在冬季，没人愿意出去抗议。而当真的出太阳、一片温暖时，我们都会将脸对向阳光，吸收急需的维生素D。
此外，我们大都信任我们的政府，而且由于我们相当保守，所以我们上街抗议会让我们觉得不适。
It's flipping COLD up here, so during winter, nobody feels like protesting. And when it's actually sunny and warm, we all turn our faces towards the sun and soak up much needed vitamin-d.
Also, we mostly trust our governments, and since we're quite reserved, we aren't really comfortable protesting in the streets.
（挪）这里冷得要死，所以在冬季，没人愿意出去抗议。而当真的出太阳、一片温暖时，我们都会将脸对向阳光，吸收急需的维生素D。
此外，我们大都信任我们的政府，而且由于我们相当保守，所以我们上街抗议会让我们觉得不适。
Seba7290
For Denmark specifically, I think it's because it's a small homogenous nation that has existed for over a thousand years despite outside threats. We had to stick together to preserve our sovereignty, so national spirit and working together for collective prosperity are key parts of our culture. The Law of Jante is all about that.
（丹）只针对丹麦，我认为这是因为它是个同质化的小国，尽管面临外部威胁，却已经存在了一千多年。我们必须团结起来捍卫我们的主权，因此民族精神和携手共荣是我们文化的关键组成部分。詹特法则凸显的就是这一点。
For Denmark specifically, I think it's because it's a small homogenous nation that has existed for over a thousand years despite outside threats. We had to stick together to preserve our sovereignty, so national spirit and working together for collective prosperity are key parts of our culture. The Law of Jante is all about that.
（丹）只针对丹麦，我认为这是因为它是个同质化的小国，尽管面临外部威胁，却已经存在了一千多年。我们必须团结起来捍卫我们的主权，因此民族精神和携手共荣是我们文化的关键组成部分。詹特法则凸显的就是这一点。
jon3ssing
The north is cold and dark. You don't want to start a fight when you're gonna be stuck together inside waiting for the sun to rise again in 4 months.
（丹）北方寒冷而黑暗。当你们困在室内，枯等四个月后再次升起的太阳，你们是不会想搞斗争的。
The north is cold and dark. You don't want to start a fight when you're gonna be stuck together inside waiting for the sun to rise again in 4 months.
（丹）北方寒冷而黑暗。当你们困在室内，枯等四个月后再次升起的太阳，你们是不会想搞斗争的。
Past_Reading_6651
During the revolutions the danish leaders basically backed off out of fear and in favor of peaceful solutions after seeing what happened in places like France and Russia. We’ve figured it probably is the best way.
The welfare state, the power of unxs, low levels of corruption, equality, the high quality of life, means we largely get it the way we want.
在历次革命时期，基本上丹麦领导人都出于恐惧而退缩了，在看到法国和俄罗斯等地发生的事后，支持和平解决方案。我们琢磨下来，这可能是最好的方法。
福利国家、强大的工会、低水平的腐败、平等、高质量的生活，意味着我们基本上可以按照我们希望的方式达到目的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
During the revolutions the danish leaders basically backed off out of fear and in favor of peaceful solutions after seeing what happened in places like France and Russia. We’ve figured it probably is the best way.
The welfare state, the power of unxs, low levels of corruption, equality, the high quality of life, means we largely get it the way we want.
在历次革命时期，基本上丹麦领导人都出于恐惧而退缩了，在看到法国和俄罗斯等地发生的事后，支持和平解决方案。我们琢磨下来，这可能是最好的方法。
福利国家、强大的工会、低水平的腐败、平等、高质量的生活，意味着我们基本上可以按照我们希望的方式达到目的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
PurchaseSignal6154
My guess is Protestant vs Catholic influence. Protestants were more austere and conformist while Catholics were more expressive and hierarchical.
I would say that some Northerners do challenge authority a fair amount. Since the culture is more egalitarian, it’s acceptable to openly disagree with your boss at work for example. Although they make an effort not to draw attention or involve any personal emotions when doing so.
（美）我的猜测是新教和天主教的影响。新教徒更严厉，也更循规蹈矩，而天主教徒则更善于表达，更讲究等级。
我觉得，有一部分北方人确实频频挑战权威。由于文化更推崇平等，因此在工作中公开反对老板是可以接受的。尽管他们这么做的时候，会尽力不引起注意，也不卷入任何个人情绪。
My guess is Protestant vs Catholic influence. Protestants were more austere and conformist while Catholics were more expressive and hierarchical.
I would say that some Northerners do challenge authority a fair amount. Since the culture is more egalitarian, it’s acceptable to openly disagree with your boss at work for example. Although they make an effort not to draw attention or involve any personal emotions when doing so.
（美）我的猜测是新教和天主教的影响。新教徒更严厉，也更循规蹈矩，而天主教徒则更善于表达，更讲究等级。
我觉得，有一部分北方人确实频频挑战权威。由于文化更推崇平等，因此在工作中公开反对老板是可以接受的。尽管他们这么做的时候，会尽力不引起注意，也不卷入任何个人情绪。
andreas16700
You could attribute this to colonialism: Greece was ruled by the ottomans for half a century. It's not hard to see how resistance to structure is still ingrained in culture
你可以将其归因于殖民主义：希腊被奥斯曼帝国统治了半个世纪。不难看出，反抗系统仍然在文化中根深蒂固
You could attribute this to colonialism: Greece was ruled by the ottomans for half a century. It's not hard to see how resistance to structure is still ingrained in culture
你可以将其归因于殖民主义：希腊被奥斯曼帝国统治了半个世纪。不难看出，反抗系统仍然在文化中根深蒂固
allaceLijn
Southern Europeans tend to prioritize individual interest and that of their family instead of their community, this is why most people tend to break rules when opportunity presents itself, be it in traffic or business. This is also why southerners take a dim view of authority: because they expect their authorities to be as motivated by self interest as themselves and therefore should be distrusted. This inevitably leads to various tragedies of the commons, one of which is endemic corruption.
南欧人倾向于优先考虑个人及其家庭的利益，而不是社群的利益，这就是为什么大多数人在机会出现时，倾向于打破规则，无论是交通还是做生意。这也是南方人对当局持负面态度的原因：因为在他们的预料中，当局会像他们自己一样出于利己之动机而行动，因此不应该被信任。这便不可避免地导致各种公共悲剧，其中之一就是普遍存在的腐败。
Southern Europeans tend to prioritize individual interest and that of their family instead of their community, this is why most people tend to break rules when opportunity presents itself, be it in traffic or business. This is also why southerners take a dim view of authority: because they expect their authorities to be as motivated by self interest as themselves and therefore should be distrusted. This inevitably leads to various tragedies of the commons, one of which is endemic corruption.
南欧人倾向于优先考虑个人及其家庭的利益，而不是社群的利益，这就是为什么大多数人在机会出现时，倾向于打破规则，无论是交通还是做生意。这也是南方人对当局持负面态度的原因：因为在他们的预料中，当局会像他们自己一样出于利己之动机而行动，因此不应该被信任。这便不可避免地导致各种公共悲剧，其中之一就是普遍存在的腐败。
Northern Europeans tend to believe in that no individual interest should be allowed to trump that of the community, with strict code of conduct and severe punishment for trespassers. This is why law obedience levels are relatively high: they truly believe in the system. The downsides of this is that the system as a whole can be unforgiving and inflexible, and that bad actors can cause huge damage due to the default high trust.
北欧人倾向于相信，任何个人利益都不应凌驾社群利益，也有严格的行为准则，并对悖逆者进行严厉的惩罚。这就是为什么守法程度相对较高：他们是真的相信体制。而其缺点是，整个系统会很无情且缺乏灵活性，并且，由于默认的高信任度，行为不轨者可能会造成巨大的损害。
北欧人倾向于相信，任何个人利益都不应凌驾社群利益，也有严格的行为准则，并对悖逆者进行严厉的惩罚。这就是为什么守法程度相对较高：他们是真的相信体制。而其缺点是，整个系统会很无情且缺乏灵活性，并且，由于默认的高信任度，行为不轨者可能会造成巨大的损害。
Sagaincolours
Southerners complain a lot and loudly, but do actually accept a lot of authority and poor conditions.
While Northerners are much more quiet, but will change things in an effective way if they feel the need to do so.
That's why the Northerners are Protestant (I mean, look at the word) now, and the Southerners are still Catholic.
南方人特别喜欢抱怨，声量也大，但其实会接受权威和恶劣条件。
而北方人虽然安静得多，但如果他们觉得有必要的话，会以富有成效的方式改变现状。
这就是为什么北方人现在是新教徒（自己去琢磨这个词的构词），而南方人仍然是天主教徒。
Southerners complain a lot and loudly, but do actually accept a lot of authority and poor conditions.
While Northerners are much more quiet, but will change things in an effective way if they feel the need to do so.
That's why the Northerners are Protestant (I mean, look at the word) now, and the Southerners are still Catholic.
南方人特别喜欢抱怨，声量也大，但其实会接受权威和恶劣条件。
而北方人虽然安静得多，但如果他们觉得有必要的话，会以富有成效的方式改变现状。
这就是为什么北方人现在是新教徒（自己去琢磨这个词的构词），而南方人仍然是天主教徒。
stooges81
Dunno, my experience was that southern europe will rebel more against authority but will respect social status more and respect the social hierarchy.
Whereas the north rebels less but are more socially egalitarian.
不好说，我的经验是，南欧更容易反抗权威，但更尊重社会地位，也会尊重社会等级制。
而北方较少反抗，但社会更加平等。
Dunno, my experience was that southern europe will rebel more against authority but will respect social status more and respect the social hierarchy.
Whereas the north rebels less but are more socially egalitarian.
不好说，我的经验是，南欧更容易反抗权威，但更尊重社会地位，也会尊重社会等级制。
而北方较少反抗，但社会更加平等。
Signal-Brother6044
Imo it is due to the education system.
在我看来，这是教育制度造成的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Imo it is due to the education system.
在我看来，这是教育制度造成的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I southern Europe it is really strict. A lot of rules and no trust in the kid/student. And a lot of rules are stupid and have to be respected just for a matter of principles.
I am Italian, and I was talking with a German colleague. He was complaining about the french education system being too strict. I remembered telling him that in comparison to Italy it still gave children much more freedom.
In the Nordic countries the student is trusted even more.
南欧是真的很严格。一大堆规矩，也不信任孩子/学生。而且很多规矩都很愚蠢，就因为它是“原则问题”就必须遵守。
我是意大利人，之前和一位德国同事聊天。他抱怨法国的教育体制过于严格。我还记得我告诉他，和意大利相比，法国给孩子的自由多太多了。
在北欧国家，学生更受信任。
I am Italian, and I was talking with a German colleague. He was complaining about the french education system being too strict. I remembered telling him that in comparison to Italy it still gave children much more freedom.
In the Nordic countries the student is trusted even more.
南欧是真的很严格。一大堆规矩，也不信任孩子/学生。而且很多规矩都很愚蠢，就因为它是“原则问题”就必须遵守。
我是意大利人，之前和一位德国同事聊天。他抱怨法国的教育体制过于严格。我还记得我告诉他，和意大利相比，法国给孩子的自由多太多了。
在北欧国家，学生更受信任。
So, in Italy basically what we are taught is that you are kinda expected to break rules in order to "survive". That in general rules are an imposition, and that in the end we respect only the ones for which there is a punishment.
总之，在意大利，基本上我们接受的教导是，为了“生存”，会鼓励我们去打破规则。一般而言，规则是强加给我们的某种无理要求，到头来我们只会遵守那些附带惩罚的规则。
总之，在意大利，基本上我们接受的教导是，为了“生存”，会鼓励我们去打破规则。一般而言，规则是强加给我们的某种无理要求，到头来我们只会遵守那些附带惩罚的规则。
I went on an exchange program with some Swedish students while we were in high school (around 15yo) and they mentioned that our High School looked like a jail, with double-height walls around it to prevent students from going out. While I was in Sweden. I could freely go in and out of the school through the main entrance, they had a Nintendo Gamecube for communal use!, they could grab snacks and drinks to class, freely go to the bathroom, text with their phones, etc... and I haven't even mentioned their academic system!
（西）我高中时（约 15 岁）和一些瑞典学生参加了一个交换项目，他们提到过，我们的高中看起来像监狱，周围有双层高墙，以防止学生出去。我在瑞典的时候。我能自由地走正门进出学校，他们还提供了一台公用的任天堂游戏机！他们可以捧着零食和饮料去上课，自由地上洗手间，用手机发短信等等...我都还没提他们的学术体系呢！
（西）我高中时（约 15 岁）和一些瑞典学生参加了一个交换项目，他们提到过，我们的高中看起来像监狱，周围有双层高墙，以防止学生出去。我在瑞典的时候。我能自由地走正门进出学校，他们还提供了一台公用的任天堂游戏机！他们可以捧着零食和饮料去上课，自由地上洗手间，用手机发短信等等...我都还没提他们的学术体系呢！
not-much
I can try my explanation about Italy, probably not very applicable to other countries.
我试着解释一下意大利的情况，可能不太适用于其他国家。
I can try my explanation about Italy, probably not very applicable to other countries.
我试着解释一下意大利的情况，可能不太适用于其他国家。
Italy is a young country and mostly not made "by the will of the people" but created because of the vision and the actions of a few (Mazzini, Garibaldi, Cavour, ...) . Before that Italy was also frequently invaded by foreign powers, Austria and France in the north, Spain in the south.
In practice these two things mean that Italian people have very little trust in the government and its bureaucracy which is almost always perceived as an imposition. Its rules are at best tolerated, at worse challenged.
意大利是一个年轻的国家，多半都不是“按照人民的意愿”建立的，而是因着少数人（马志尼、加里波第、加富尔…）的愿景和行动建立的。统一前的意大利也频频遭受外国列强的入侵，北有奥地利、法国，南有西班牙。
在现实中，这两点就意味着意大利人民对政府及其官僚机构几乎没有信任可言，几乎总是被视为某种强加给人民的东西。其规则充其量只会被容忍，更糟糕的情况，是会受到挑战。
In practice these two things mean that Italian people have very little trust in the government and its bureaucracy which is almost always perceived as an imposition. Its rules are at best tolerated, at worse challenged.
意大利是一个年轻的国家，多半都不是“按照人民的意愿”建立的，而是因着少数人（马志尼、加里波第、加富尔…）的愿景和行动建立的。统一前的意大利也频频遭受外国列强的入侵，北有奥地利、法国，南有西班牙。
在现实中，这两点就意味着意大利人民对政府及其官僚机构几乎没有信任可言，几乎总是被视为某种强加给人民的东西。其规则充其量只会被容忍，更糟糕的情况，是会受到挑战。
Other than that I would not say that rebelliousness is really a fundamental trait of Italian people. From religion to more local power structures (including things like the GP, the boss at work, or even the parents) there is a fairly high dose of obedience and deference.
此外，我不觉得叛逆是意大利人的基本特征。从宗教到更多的地方权力结构（包括全科医生、工作上的老板，甚至父母），都存在程度相当高的服从和顺从。
此外，我不觉得叛逆是意大利人的基本特征。从宗教到更多的地方权力结构（包括全科医生、工作上的老板，甚至父母），都存在程度相当高的服从和顺从。
Zamaiel
On the average, I believe people in northern Europe are more inclined than people in southern Europe, to believe that the rules tend towards fair, they they got their say in their making, and that their interests were considered. And that the rules were made with the intention of making life better for them. As well as a lower impression of the rules being there for the sake of the powerful and the connected.
平均而言，我认为北欧人比南欧人更倾向于相信规则是有助于公平的，他们在制定规则中有发言权，并且他们的利益得到考虑。制定这些规则的目的是为了让他们的生活变得更好。而南欧人对规则的印象较差，认为这些规则是为了有权有关系的人而存在的。
On the average, I believe people in northern Europe are more inclined than people in southern Europe, to believe that the rules tend towards fair, they they got their say in their making, and that their interests were considered. And that the rules were made with the intention of making life better for them. As well as a lower impression of the rules being there for the sake of the powerful and the connected.
平均而言，我认为北欧人比南欧人更倾向于相信规则是有助于公平的，他们在制定规则中有发言权，并且他们的利益得到考虑。制定这些规则的目的是为了让他们的生活变得更好。而南欧人对规则的印象较差，认为这些规则是为了有权有关系的人而存在的。
SeventySealsInASuit
The North has a much longer history of rebellions, both in number and scale. A kind of cultural understanding that things are currently not worse than they would be during a rebellion or serious civil unrest likely plays a key part in things.
（英）无论参考数量还是规模，北方叛乱的历史都要悠久得多。有一种文化认知是：当前情况的糟糕程度并不如叛乱或严重内乱时期，这种认知可能在事态中发挥着关键作用。
The North has a much longer history of rebellions, both in number and scale. A kind of cultural understanding that things are currently not worse than they would be during a rebellion or serious civil unrest likely plays a key part in things.
（英）无论参考数量还是规模，北方叛乱的历史都要悠久得多。有一种文化认知是：当前情况的糟糕程度并不如叛乱或严重内乱时期，这种认知可能在事态中发挥着关键作用。
I tell you, Spaniards complain a lot but we do not really rebel and just accept any authority while complaining and being miserable.
↘（西）我来告诉你，西班牙人特别喜欢抱怨，但我们并没有作出真正意义上的反抗，只是在抱怨和可悲的状态中接受一切权威。
↘（西）我来告诉你，西班牙人特别喜欢抱怨，但我们并没有作出真正意义上的反抗，只是在抱怨和可悲的状态中接受一切权威。
Totally. Complain between coworkers, smile to the authority.
↘（西）同事间互相抱怨，却在权威跟前赔笑。
↘（西）同事间互相抱怨，却在权威跟前赔笑。
My brother lives in Norway and I would say the situation is not the same. At least your authority is way more competent and your baseline to not act is much better than ours x)
↘（西）我哥住在挪威，我的看法是，两边的情况不一样。 至少在北欧，当局的能力强出许多，你们不采取行动的底线比我们的高得多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
↘（西）我哥住在挪威，我的看法是，两边的情况不一样。 至少在北欧，当局的能力强出许多，你们不采取行动的底线比我们的高得多。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
One of the most typical Spanish sentences is: Es lo que hay.
↘有句最典型的西班牙语：Es lo que hay（就这情况。）。
↘有句最典型的西班牙语：Es lo que hay（就这情况。）。
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