美国的STEM毕业生短缺比我们想象的要严重得多

2024-06-05 大号儿童 6442 33

正文翻译

The United States is critically short of the engineers and scientists we need to compete in the key industries of the future. With STEM graduates at full employment, and already enjoying the highest pay scales in the world, it is proving highly difficult for companies to find new engineering talent.

美国严重缺乏我们在未来关键行业中竞争所需的工程师和科学家。随着STEM毕业生充分就业，并且已经享有世界上最高的薪酬水平，事实证明，企业很难找到新的工程人才。

A close look at the enrollment data for students in STEM fields in US universities, however, reveals that over half of those students are international, and about 80% will be returning to their home countries after graduation. Instead of having over 800,000 new STEM graduates annually, the United States will only see about 500,000 of them join companies in the United States, which puts the US behind China, India, and Russia.

然而，仔细研究美国大学STEM领域学生的入学数据就会发现，这些学生中有一半以上是国际学生，约80%的学生将在毕业后返回祖国。而不是每年有超过80万的新STEM毕业生，美国只有大约50万人加入美国公司，这使得美国落后于中国、印度和俄罗斯。

评论翻译

@latiendaca1773 I read somewhere, that ~70% of China’s leaders have engineer degrees. Versus ours having law backgrounds.

我在某处读到，大约 70% 的中国领导人拥有工程师学位。与我们有法律背景的人相比。

@F_Liu Over 1,400 Chinese scientists have dropped their American university or corporate affiliations and returned to China in 2021, based on their publication records, and 4 in 10 scientists of Chinese descent at elite American universities are considering leaving.

根据他们的发表记录，超过 1,400 名中国科学家于 2021 年放弃了美国大学或企业的隶属关系并返回中国，美国精英大学的华裔科学家中有十分之四正在考虑离开。
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@liberty-matrix "The number one most aspired to career in China, among young teenagers that were surveyed is an 'Astronaut'. The number one most aspired to a career in the U.S. is a 'Social Media Influencer', that is all you need to know to understand the collapse of the West." ~Tristan Harris

“在接受调查的中国青少年中，最想从事的职业是‘宇航员’。在美国，最想从事的职业是‘社交媒体影响者’，这就是你了解西方崩溃所需要知道的一切。”~特里斯坦·哈里斯

@priscillaferguson267 All of my Chinese and Japanese foreign student that I’ve hosted have returned to China and Japan after receiving their Master’s Engineering Degrees. Why??? The fear of being singled out as a spy due to ignorant bigotry and xenophobia.

我接待过的所有中国和日本留学生都在获得工程硕士学位后回到了中国和日本。为什么? ?由于无知的偏执和仇外心理，害怕被当成间谍挑出来。

@kl9518 10 years ago, I went to the Royal College of Art in London, the top design school in the UK. The automotive subject only takes 12 students a year. 2 were British, and the rest were Chinese, Korean, and Japanese. Now we see that some of the best cars in the world come from these East Asian countries.

10年前，10年前，我去了英国顶尖的设计学院伦敦皇家艺术学院。汽车专业每年只招收12名学生。2名是英国人，其余的是中国人、韩国人和日本人。现在我们看到，世界上一些最好的汽车来自这些东亚国家。

davidlee9493 Too many lawyers. Too few engineers. There was a time when foreign students overwhelmingly choose to remain in the U.S. Not anymore. The grass is now greener on the other side. You can't stem the tide.

太多律师了。工程师太少了。曾经有一段时间，绝大多数外国学生选择留在美国。这山望着那山高。风水轮流转。

@Spyderman500 I work at a state university in the engineering department. We aggressively recruit international students because they pay more intuition. This is what happens when you don’t invest in your people

我在工程系的一所州立大学工作。我们积极招收国际学生，因为他们支付更高的学费。这就是当你不投资于本国人民时会发生的情况。 @duinay3

the US has always imported their talent from abroad - it's possible that talent may no longer find the US attractive to be anymore

美国一直从国外引进人才——有可能人才不再觉得美国有吸引力了

@Ace1000ks19751982 Math and science education is really mediocre in the US. If you want to major in engineering, you have to be good in subjects, like math, physics, and chemistry.

美国的数学和科学教育真的很平庸。如果你想主修工程，你必须在数学、物理和化学等学科上表现出色。
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When I was going to university back in the mid 1990s, I would say about 80% of the people in the higher math(Calculus 1 - 3, Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, etc), and physical science courses(physics, chemistry, thermodynamics) were mostly foreigners. In the US, you have more lawyers than scientists and engineers, so this is why the country is at the state that it is in now.

当我在90年代中期上大学的时候，我可以说80%的高等数学(微积分1 - 3，微分方程，线性代数等)和物理科学课程(物理，化学，热力学)的学生大多是外国人。在美国，律师比科学家和工程师还多，所以这就是为什么这个国家现在处于这个状态。
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@RichardBrett899 In summary, America is low in manufacturing capacity and low in talent pool, but has high inflation.

总而言之，美国的制造能力和人才储备都很低，但通货膨胀率很高。

@knaraya936 My son is a PhD in Condensed Matter Physics and a US Citizen who works on SemiconductorMaterials research in a post doctoral capacity. He has been trying to find a job in semiconductor process manufacturing for several years now. The reason is that semiconductor fabs in America has just laid off thousands of experienced semiconductor people over the past two years. Hiring entry-level is very expensive and there are no entry level jobs (that need a PhD as a minimum) posted anymore. Posting is only for experienced people. Colleges, universities, trade schools don’t have training for semiconductor people. Companies need to invest a minimum of 6 months in a new hire. This can be done at a much lower cost overseas - Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Singapore.

我的儿子是凝聚态物理学博士学位，也是一名美国公民，以博士后身份从事半导体材料研究。几年来，他一直想在半导体制造行业找到一份工作。原因是美国的半导体工厂在过去两年中刚刚解雇了数千名有经验的半导体人员。招聘入门级的工作非常昂贵，而且已经没有入门级的工作(至少需要博士学位)了。发帖只适合有经验的人。学院、大学、职业学校没有针对半导体人员的培训。公司需要在新员工身上投入至少6个月的时间。这可以在海外以更低的成本完成——台湾地区、日本、韩国、新加坡。

@AIPretendingToBeHuman I think you have to ask the question, Why is the cost of living in the US so high that you need 3-5x the salary compared to China to live the same lifestyle ? Why does housing, healthcare, education (the basic necessities), cost 3-7x more in the US than in China. Unless we can answer that basic question it is going to be increasingly difficult to be competitive in the world.

我想你必须问一个问题，为什么美国的生活成本如此之高，以至于你需要比中国高3-5倍的工资才能过上同样的生活?为什么美国的住房、医疗、教育(基本必需品)比中国贵3-7倍。除非我们能回答这个基本问题，否则在世界上保持竞争力将变得越来越困难。

@stephenc6955 A law degree is where it's at. We live in a litigious country, we will litigate our way to success.

法律学位才是最重要的。我们生活在一个爱打官司的国家，我们将打官司作为通往成功的道路。

@rfengr00 During my MSEE almost 30 years ago, 28 of 30 students in my digital signal processing class were Asian foreign nationals, mostly Taiwan, Korean, and India. The mainland Chinese were starting to study here en-masse. Of course a generation later, Taiwan dominates semiconductors (Korea too) They (Morris Chang) had a master plan from the late 80’s. America doesn’t think past one financial quarter.

大约30年前，在我的MSEE期间，我的数字信号处理班的30名学生中有28名是亚洲外国人，主要是台湾人、韩国和印度人。中国大陆人开始大批来这里学习。当然，一代之后，台湾地区在半导体领域占据主导地位（韩国也是如此），他们(张忠谋)从80年代末就有了一个总体规划。美国人只考虑一个财政季度。

@roberts5197 I was in San Francisco in 1991. Berkeley had a big debate going on because they were reserving 10% of the places for disadvantaged Asians and the white American students were completing that entry should be on merit. I was there 10 years later in 2001, Berkeley were reserving 10% for white Americans and the Asian students were complaining that entry should be on merit. The American education system had been going downhill for 30+ years.

1991 年我在旧金山。伯克利正在进行一场大辩论，因为他们为处境不利的亚洲人保留了 10% 的名额，而美国白人学生则应根据成绩完成入学。 10 年后的 2001 年，我来到了那里，伯克利为美国白人保留了 10% 的奖学金，而亚洲学生则抱怨入学应该根据成绩而定。美国的教育体系30多年来一直在走下坡路。

@Kotak8 The U.S. national leaders, lawmakers in the senate & Hse Representatives mostly had their degrees in law and political science. In contrary, Chinese leaders obtained engineering, science,maths, IT, economics, accountancy.

美国国家领导人、参议院议员和众议院议员大多拥有法学和政治学学位。相反，中国领导人获得了工程、科学、数学、信息技术、经济、会计等方面的优势。

@SteveBurg2001 Okay, I'm an American... and when I see these reports, I find myself asking "Are we serious?" Because if we are, then everything has to change - and fast!

好吧，我是美国人……当我看到这些报道时，我发现自己在问“我们是认真的吗？” 因为如果我们是这样，那么一切都必须改变——而且要快！

@apl1568 It doesn't help that students go through the pain of getting computer science degrees, etc., and then can't get jobs because "they don't have experience", while in fact the jobs are being outsourced. Americans are are hyper-focused on short-term profits. They'll happily outsource everything they can at the expense of the future economic well being of their country.

学生们经历了获得计算机科学学位等的痛苦，然后因为“他们没有经验”而找不到工作，这对他们没有帮助，而事实上，这些工作正在被外包。美国人过于关注短期利益。他们会很乐意将一切可以外包的事情外包出去，但以牺牲国家未来的经济福祉为代价。

@leonardpearlman4017 As a chronically underemployed and now involuntarily retired STEM kind of guy... I would like to mention something I have noticed: When people HERE in the US talk about work place issues, wages, staffing problems and so on- (in my impression) they seem to be wrong, no matter what they are saying! Published information in general doesn't seem to align with what you can actually observe. It seems like news from a similar but different world! BOSS WORLD? I could go on at great length about this, and none of it would make anyone happier. We are clamoring for machinist-mechanic-welder-electronic technician-programmers (say), and there aren't many people LIKE THAT, there's no plan to have a process to create them! The people who ARE like that are mostly men, mostly way over fifty, and often unemployed or underemployed, prematurely retired! There's a lot of variety though, everyone's mileage varies amazingly.

作为一个长期未充分就业，现在非自愿退休的STEM类家伙…我想提一下我注意到的一些事情:当美国人谈论工作场所问题、工资问题、人员问题等等——(在我的印象中)不管他们说什么，他们似乎都是错的！一般来说，公布的信息似乎与你实际观察到的并不一致。这似乎是来自一个相似但不同的世界的消息! 老板的世界? 关于这一点，我可以用很长的篇幅来谈论这件事，但没有一件事能使任何人感到高兴。我们迫切需要机械师-机械师-焊工-电子技术员-程序员(比如说)，而像这样的人并不多，没有计划有一个过程来创造他们!这样的人大多是男人，大多超过50岁，而且经常失业或未充分就业，过早退休! 尽管种类繁多，但每个人的里程数却相差很大。

@XFinityDesigns If Americans travel abroad, they will be shocked. I recently returned from a Middle Eastern country. There are more Chinese cars, phones, technology than there are American. Planes, trains, you name it.

如果美国人出国旅游，他们会感到震惊。我最近刚从一个中东国家回来。中国的汽车、手机和技术都比美国的多。飞机，火车，应有尽有。

@brianliew5901 China has a 5,000 year history and it'll take the US approximately 4752 years just to understand what China is doing.

中国有5000年的历史，美国要花4752年才能理解中国在做什么。

@1millionstartups Semiconductors doesn't need the best engineers; it needs the most dedicated engineers because each batch needs to be watched over and cared for like an infant from conception to final assembly, and each step (and there're thousands) can render the batch (or a few wafers) useless and loss of $ thousands or millions. Imagine doing this every day for 12-16 hours and getting paid less than a MBA who figured out in the US how bad the ROI is in a STEM career, a semiconductor fab or factories of any kind, vs. hyping up Tesla, Nvidia, AMC or Hertz stocks.

半导体不需要最好的工程师;它需要最敬业的工程师，因为从构思到最终组装，每个批次都需要像婴儿一样受到监督和照顾，而每个步骤（有数千个）都可能使该批次（或几块晶圆）变得无用和损失数千或数百万美元。想象一下，每天花 12 到 16 个小时做这件事，得到的报酬还比一个 MBA 还低，他在美国发现 STEM 职业、半导体工厂或任何类型的工厂的投资回报率有多糟糕，而不是大肆宣传特斯拉、Nvidia、 AMC 或赫兹股票。

@M.M.Alam.Liberty Kevin. Remember that US wanted to de-industrialize which means they have to drastically reduce chances of more STEM grads in the future.

凯文. 请记住，美国想要去工业化，这意味着他们必须大幅减少未来更多 STEM 毕业生的机会。
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@shaonghosh1 The consideration of what fraction of STEM students are American is an important one. Most of the students are Chinese and Indian (at least used to be). In the past, it mattered little because of the great pull of the chance to immigrate to America. However, the US immigration system has become a hopeless endeavor for a large section of people from these countries. So, the US universities are essentially training students from these countries and letting them go back to their home country or other countries to contribute to the economy of those countries. I personally know three Indian Ph.D. students who were financially supported by US universities for 5–6 years (TAs and RAs), had full tuition waivers, and then had to leave the country because of decade-long green card backlogs after completing their OPT. US taxpayers paid for their studies, only for them to leave and pay taxes in some other countries. So, indeed, subtracting that number from the "US-category" is the sensible thing to do.

考虑到STEM学生中有多少是美国人是一个重要的问题。大多数学生是中国人和印度人(至少曾经是)。在过去，由于移民美国的机会具有巨大的吸引力，这并不重要。然而，对于这些国家的大部分人来说，美国的移民制度已经成为一项无望的努力。因此，美国大学本质上是在培训来自这些国家的学生，让他们回到自己的国家或其他国家，为这些国家的经济做出贡献。我个人认识三名印度博士生，他们得到了美国大学5-6年的经济支持(助教和博士)，全额学费减免，但在完成OPT后，由于绿卡积压长达十年之久，不得不离开美国。美国纳税人为他们的学习支付了费用，只是为了让他们离开并在其他一些国家纳税。因此，事实上，从“美国类别”中减去这个数字是明智的做法。

@horridohobbies According to the World Economic Forum, in 2016, China had 4.7m STEM graduates while USA had 568,000. That's a ratio of 8:1. So I'm supposed to believe that 4 years later, China had 3.57m STEM graduates to USA's 820,000 for a ratio of 4:1, according to CSET, an American think tank??? Colour me skeptical. I think CSET inflated the US number. This is simply common sense. They're counting foreign students who graduate, then leave the USA. Kevin, your research is spot on, as usual.

根据世界经济论坛的数据，2016年，中国有470万STEM毕业生，而美国有56.8万。也就是8：1的比例。所以我应该相信，根据美国智库CSET的数据，4年后，中国有357万名STEM毕业生，而美国有82万名，比例为4:1？？？让我感到怀疑。我认为CSET夸大了美国的数字。这是常识。他们计算的是那些毕业后离开美国的外国学生。凯文，和往常一样，你的研究很到位。

@catinbootsnow4267 AI in the US is mainly focusing on robots chatting like real lawyers, journalists, politicians, freelancers, TV archors, and entertainers. AI in China is mainly focusing on robots working like real engineers, programmers, workers, drivers, teachers, doctors, nurses, and farmers. A little amusing.

在美国，人工智能主要集中在像真正的律师、记者、政治家、自由职业者、电视主持人和艺人一样聊天的机器人上。中国的人工智能主要集中在像真正的工程师、程序员、工人、司机、教师、医生、护士和农民一样工作的机器人上。有点好笑。
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@phyybalance2601 The reason is very simple and may shock some of you. The foundation for science, engineering, and math majors starts in elementary school. Students who flunked their math and science in elementary, middle, and high school will never ever be able to major in the engineering degree. Asian education systems put a lot of attention in math and science since elementary school so they are much more likely to major in the engineering degree.

原因很简单，可能会让你们中的一些人感到震惊。科学、工程和数学专业的基础从小学就开始了。在小学、初中和高中数学和科学不及格的学生将永远无法主修工程学位。从小学开始，亚洲的教育体系就非常重视数学和科学，所以他们更有可能主修工程学位。

@steaminglobster My friend worked in Cornell university told me: the funding of the professors get now is 10% of 10 years ago. USA does not have serious engineering projects/industry anymore. So what does USA GDP made of? I guess it is made of lots of blah blah blah.

我在康奈尔大学工作的朋友告诉我:现在教授得到的资金是10年前的10%。美国不再有严肃的工程项目/工业了。那么美国的GDP是由什么构成的呢?我猜它是由很多废话组成的。

@DanBurgaud 0:48 Just so everyone knows, the American Math Team that won the Math Olympics in 2021 was composed exclusively of Chinese Students...

0:48大家都知道，赢得2021年数学奥林匹克的美国数学队完全是由中国学生组成的…

@coliv2 The US companies are currently in a bid to lay off as many STEAM workers as possible! Given that fact, it is no surprise that nobody will want to become an engineer in this country.

美国企业目前正力图裁员尽可能多的STEAM员工！鉴于这一事实，在这个国家没有人想成为一名工程师也就不足为奇了。

@paintitblack4199 The US may have higher pay in those jobs, but with inflation and the cost of living it's probably on par with China and other nations, not to mention housing costs and healthcare being ridiculous.

美国可能在这些工作中有更高的工资，但考虑到通货膨胀和生活成本，它可能与中国和其他国家相当，更不用说住房成本和医疗成本了。

@user-xp4of2vu4r You can bet then number includes anyone who graduated from an USA school. From what I read, most of the good schools depend on foreign student tuitions to make budget.

你可以打赌，这个数字包括所有从美国学校毕业的人。据我所知，大多数好学校都依靠外国学生的学费来制定预算。

@mijmijrm the essence of Science/Engineering is the ability to perceive actual physical evidential reality and differentiate it from imagination. To retain its grip on power, the Establishment Political Power requires that the average American exists in a realm of fantasy and is unable to determine what is reality. So, it's preferable that the average American is kept away from Science/Engineering.

科学/工程的本质是感知实际的物理证据现实并将其与想象区分开来的能力。为了保持对权力的控制，建制派政治权力要求普通美国人生活在幻想之中，无法确定什么是现实。所以，最好让普通美国人远离科学/工程。

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