QA问答:为什么看起来日本人和中国人的生活比韩国人更加轻松呢?
2024-06-28 ◣靜♂候輪回 10700
正文翻译
@Alistair Zhao
I worked at an international bank in London ten years ago, with my team spread across the globe, notably in China, Korea, Japan, and Singapore. Despite being an international team with similar tasks, our work ethics and approaches varied widely, often fitting comical stereotypes.
In London, we were somewhat privileged, typically finishing work by 7 PM and rarely staying until 9 PM. However, we could almost always count on receiving a reply from our East Asian colleagues the same day if we sent an email before 5 PM London time, which was midnight in East Asia.
One time, I was emailing different teams around midday to gather information. The Singaporeans responded immediately, and the Chinese and Japanese replied promptly as well. However, the Koreans did not respond.
The next day, I ed up with the Korean team. Seconds after sending the email, my phone rang. It was a private number, not from within the organization. A murmuring voice on the other end said, "Alistair, I am your colleague from Korea. I forgot to send you the information yesterday. Could you please resend the email without the chain?"
Without much thought, I agreed and forwarded the email. While doing so, I recounted the strange call to a colleague sitting next to me. He gave me a serious look and explained that the head of the Korea team required all emails to be replied to the same day and would scream at anyone who failed to do so. He suspected the poor guy was calling me from the toilet using his personal phone. My colleague ended by saying, "I hope you agreed to help him."
At that moment, I realized something important: I did not want to go back to East Asia to work.

十年前,我在伦敦的一家国际银行工作,我的团队遍布全球,主要分布在中国、韩国、日本和新加坡。尽管我们是一个国际团队,任务也类似,但我们的工作精神和方法却大相径庭,常常符合滑稽的刻板印象。
在伦敦,我们有点幸运,通常在晚上7点下班,很少待到晚上9点。然而,如果我们在伦敦时间下午5点(东亚的午夜)之前发送电子邮件,我们几乎总能指望当天收到东亚同事的回复。
有一次,我在中午左右给不同的团队发送电子邮件以收集信息。新加坡人立即回复了,中国人和日本人也很快回复了。然而,韩国人没有回复。
第二天,我与韩国团队取得了联系。发送电子邮件几秒钟后,我的电话响了。这是一个私人号码,不是来自组织内部的。电话那头传来一个低声细语的声音:“Alistair,我是你韩国的同事。我昨天忘了给你发信息了。你能不能重发邮件,不要带上一次的引用?”
我没有多想,就同意了,转发了邮件。在转发邮件的同时,我向坐在我旁边的同事讲述了这个奇怪的电话。他严肃地看了我一眼,解释说韩国团队的负责人要求所有邮件都要在当天回复,不回复的人会被大喊大叫。他怀疑这个可怜的家伙在厕所用他的私人电话给我打电话。我的同事最后说:“我希望你同意帮助他。”
那一刻,我意识到一件重要的事情:我不想回东亚工作。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


评论翻译
@Ji-Yeon
Very good answer. Working in East Asia is not easy.

非常好的回答。在东亚工作并不容易。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


@Im Yang Gyoon
In Korea, your boss is not allowed to call you after work hours to talk about work
You say you worked in London, so your Korean workplace and London would be the same.
In developed countries, asking people to do work after work hours are over takes up personal time and is a violation of human rights.
I understand that other developed countries, such as the US and UK, also do not contact or send emails after work.
Korea's labor law does not allow people to work after work.
Even if an individual tries to work for the company without receiving additional overtime pay, they are prohibited from doing so.
Companies in Korea announce that they will turn off the power and internet lines to all work PCs before leaving work.
Workers must quickly finish their work when this broadcast appears.
And, at exactly the right time to leave work, the PC is turned off and the Internet is blocked.
If an employee has extra work to do, they must obtain approval from their superiors and work overtime.
Even if it's working hours in London, it's an hour after work in Korea...
Anyone sending mail from London should take this into consideration
Should people in London have free time after work, and should office workers in Korea receive and reply to emails even at midnight?
You can use the automatic email sending function to have emails arrive during working hours when people in Korea are working.
Otherwise, for the information needed in the email, a Korean office worker must go to work and obtain the results.


在韩国,你的老板不允许在工作时间外给你打电话谈工作
你说你在伦敦工作过,那么你的韩国工作场所和伦敦是一样的。
在发达国家,要求人在工作时间外工作是占用个人时间,侵犯人权。
我知道其他发达国家,如美国和英国,也不会在工作时间后联系或发送邮件。
韩国的劳动法不允许人在工作时间外工作。
即使个人试图在没有额外加班费的情况下为公司工作,他们也被禁止这样做。
韩国的公司在下班前宣布将关闭所有工作电脑的电源和互联网线路。
当这个广播出现时,员工必须迅速完成他们的工作。
而且,在正好下班时间,电脑将被关闭,互联网被阻断。
如果员工有额外的工作要做,他们必须得到上司的批准并加班工作。
即使在伦敦是工作时间,在韩国也已经是下班时间了…
从伦敦发邮件的人应该考虑到这一点
伦敦的人下班后是否有空,而韩国的上班族是否要在午夜接收和回复邮件?
你可以使用自动发送邮件功能,使邮件在韩国人工作的时间内送达。
否则,对于邮件中需要的信息,韩国的上班族必须上班并获取结果。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


@Alistair Zhao
Just to clarify, I sent the chaser the next morning, so the call happened during working hours in Seoul. We certainly didn’t expect everyone to reply immediately after an email is sent, and not prioritising admin matters is not really frowned upon since everyone has ‘real’ jobs to do. It’s the toilet phone call in fear that got me!

澄清一下,我是在第二天早上发的邮件,所以电话是在首尔的工作时间打的。我们当然不指望每个人在发邮件后立刻回复,而且不优先处理行政事务并不是真的不被看好,因为每个人都有“真正”的工作要做。让我害怕的是在厕所里接电话!

@Im Yang Gyoon
In Korean workplaces, there is no rule requiring frequent checking of e-mail.
Therefore, if you have urgent work, you should use the phone or the chat messenger used by the company.
In Korean companies, rather than a boss directly giving work instructions verbally to a colleague...
We use the chat messenger included in the business program used by each company.
In these chat messengers, when a post such as a question is posted, it is displayed on the relevant person's PC and notified.
Then, the person involved sees the contents of this chat messenger, processes the work, and sends the results of the work process as an electronic document through a program on the work PC.
In this case, it is notified that there is a document for electronic approval on the PC of the person who becomes the merchant of the party.
You must have secured in advance this electronic document system, a messenger used at the workplace, or a messenger commonly used by individuals.
In Korea, “KakaoTalk” is widely used as a personal messenger.
Therefore, you should have installed these programs on your cell phone or PC to easily contact Korean office workers with whom you have business contact.
Additionally, you must have registered your business contacts in this program.
After these procedures...
If you request a document with a lot of content from a Korean office worker, you must first contact the person in charge of the company by phone or use a chat messenger to convey your intention.
If the company does not have a chat messenger shared with the London company, you must convey your opinion through KakaoTalk, which is widely used by the general public in Korea.
And, if you send the document by e-mail, everyone in Korea will read the e-mail and respond.
If Korea does not respond after these measures, they may have decided that the content is not important and not worth responding to.

在韩国的工作场所,没有要求频繁检查电子邮件的规定。
因此,如果你有紧急工作,你应该使用电话或公司使用的聊天工具。
在韩国的公司里,不是老板直接口头向同事下达工作指示...
我们使用每个公司使用的商业程序中包含的聊天工具。
在这些聊天工具中,当发布诸如问题等帖子时,它会显示在相关人员的PC上并通知。
然后,相关人员查看此聊天工具的内容,处理工作,并通过工作PC上的程序以电子文件的形式发送工作过程的结果。
在这种情况下,它会通知相关人员的PC上有电子审批文件。
你必须事先确保这个电子文件系统、工作场所使用的聊天工具或个人常用的聊天工具。
在韩国,“KakaoTalk”被广泛用作个人聊天工具。
因此,你应该在手机或PC上安装这些程序,以便与有业务联系的韩国上班族轻松联系。
此外,你必须在这个程序中注册你的业务联系人。
完成这些程序后...
如果你要求韩国上班族提供大量内容的文件,你必须首先通过电话联系公司负责人或使用聊天工具传达你的意图。
如果公司没有与伦敦公司共享的聊天工具,你必须通过在韩国广泛使用的KakaoTalk传达你的意见。
然后,如果你通过电子邮件发送文件,韩国的所有人都会阅读电子邮件并做出回应。
如果在采取这些措施后,韩国没有回应,他们可能已经决定内容不重要,不值得回应。

@Alistair Zhao
Thanks for the detailed reply, learning something. I didn’t know about this law in Korea. That’s absolutely reasonable! In London, most banks will ask employees to sign waiver to the 40 hour working hour right…
What happened to the guy inKoreaa could certainly be an isolated incident. Butthee whispering phone call was an eye opening experience to me. and the colleague telling me the boss over their screaming sound genuine enough.

感谢详细的回复,学到了一些东西。我不知道韩国有这项法律。那是绝对合理的!在伦敦,大多数银行会要求员工签署放弃40小时工作权利的协议...
发生在韩国那个人身上的事情肯定是一个孤立的事件。但那次悄悄的电话让我大开眼界,还有同事告诉我老板在他们的尖叫声中听起来真诚的声音。

@Im Yang Gyoon
Korean labor law requires workers to work 8 hours a day, Monday through Friday only.
If overtime is required, the work must be paid at least 1.5 times more per hour.
Additionally, this overtime must never exceed 16 hours per week.
If these laws are violated, the boss or company representative who committed the illegal act must be brought to the labor inspector for investigation.
And, after this investigation, you will be prosecuted and face criminal charges.

韩国劳动法要求工人每天工作8小时,仅限周一至周五。
如果需要加班,工作时间必须支付至少1.5倍的工资。
此外,加班时间每周不得超过16小时。
如果这些法律被违反,实施非法行为的老板或公司代表必须被带到劳动监察员进行调查。
在调查后,你将被起诉并面临刑事指控。

@Margareta Krzyszton
Well done Korea!

干得好,韩国!

@Emily Kim
Forget it
Korea does have such laws and regulations
But they are all fake
Few companies will actually enforce them, they are all scammers
Korea is the country with the highest work pressure in East Asia

算了吧
韩国确实有这样的法律和规定
不过那都是虚假的
没有几个公司会真正执行,都是骗子
韩国是东亚工作压力最大的国家

@Lily Hilton
The Singaporean aspect is true. In Singapore, many companies require overtime aside from the 8 hours a day work. For many case, they have to bring their work home. They are not paid for their overtime. This is why many Singaporeans complain about working in Singapore.

新加坡的情况是真的。在新加坡,许多公司要求除了每天8小时工作外还要加班。在很多情况下,他们必须把工作带回家。他们没有加班费。这就是为什么很多新加坡人抱怨在新加坡工作。

@Kokswee Goh
I'm a Singaporean working
in China, and I'd say that it's not that bad in Singapore, at least when I compare it to what I see here in China…

我是一个在中国工作的新加坡人,我要说在新加坡还不算太糟糕,至少和我在中国看到的情况相比不算啥…

@Ewe Yu Yie
Banks are like that. In my country too bank staffs are required to complete all their tasks for the day including replying emails before they can go home. Failure to do so may end up getting reprimanded or screamed at.

银行就是这样。在我的国家,银行员工也被要求在回家前完成当天的所有任务,包括回复电子邮件。否则可能会被训斥或大喊大叫。

@Margareta Krzyszton
Privileged to finish work by 7pm or 9pm? I sincerely hope your pay reflects this slavery.

晚上7点或9点下班是特权吗?我真心希望你的工资能反映出这种奴役。

@Yè
South Korea is controlled by the chaebol, the whole country is for the chaebol, the life of ordinary people is very difficult.
Massive sexual assault, abuse of women.
Compared with Japan, in fact, the pressure of Japanese life is also great, and the word social animal is spread from Japan to China. But Japan's laws regulate so many things that the Japanese slowly accept such helplessness.
China is also under a lot of pressure, many people are constantly internal consumption, there are too many excellent students, so they can not accept the salary of ordinary people. Do not want to go to the second and third tier cities to develop, are stacked in the first tier cities, would rather go to work freelance rather than go to the second and third tier cities.
Because China's AI is developing rapidly, it will replace many manual labor in the future, and China will transform its saturated talent market. More training technician and other professions.
But at least the Chinese people are relatively happy, the motherland is strong, the Chinese government is the people's government, and the Chinese soldiers are the soldiers to protect the country and protect the people. In China, at least, it all seems harmonious.

韩国由财阀控制,整个国家都是为财阀服务,普通人的生活非常困难。
大量的性侵犯,女性遭受虐待。
与日本相比,实际上日本生活的压力也很大,“社畜”这个词就是从日本传到中国的。但日本的法律规定了很多事情,使日本人慢慢接受这种无奈。
中国也面临很大的压力,很多人不断内耗,有太多优秀的学生,无法接受普通人的工资。不愿意去二三线城市发展,都堆在一线城市,宁愿去做自由职业者也不愿去二三线城市。
由于中国的人工智能发展迅速,未来将取代许多手工劳动,中国将转变其饱和的人才市场。更多地培训技术员和其他职业。
但至少中国人相对幸福,祖国强大,中国政府是人民的政府,中国士兵是保护国家和人民的士兵。在中国,至少看起来一切都是和谐的。

@Jeanpeterson Pierce
Most astoundingly, the highest rate of home ownership in the Whole World is in CN - when your home is haven, your life is heaven.

最令人惊讶的是,全世界最高的住房拥有率在中国 - 当你的家是避风港时,你的生活就是天堂。

@Oh Hyok Kwon
In the 1990s, the PRC basically studied and copied the South Korean economic development model with large government backed companies, focus on key industries and exports. That is why China’s main industries mirror or are the same as South Korea’s key industries, like shipbuilding, electronics and semiconductors.
The 1 difference is that the PRC does not allow worker unxs; whereas almost all large companies in Korea have worker unxs. Ironic since the PRC claims to be communist.

在20世纪90年代,中国基本上研究并复制了韩国的经济发展模式,有大型政府支持的公司,重点关注关键产业和出口。这就是为什么中国的主要产业与韩国的关键产业相似或相同,比如造船、电子和半导体。
唯一的不同是,中国不允许工会存在;而几乎所有韩国的大公司都有工会。讽刺的是,中国号称是共产主义国家。

@Yè
You laugh me to death, we are a big agricultural country, later developed industrial, copy the Korean economic model? Your whole Korea is smaller than one of our provinces.
Have you grown enough vegetables? Do Koreans want to compete with China in farming? South Korea's watermelon is expensive, corn is expensive, kimchi dishes are imported from China.
I'm not mocking South Korea, I'm just saying this with certainty, because occasionally you see many of your stars are forced to death, athletes who have won glory for the country to commit suicide, almost always because of oppression, sexual assault.
We are a socialist country. We learn from the Soviet unx's industrial development and Communism, but based on national conditions, so it is customized according to the national conditions of the characteristics of the socialist road, and the development of Communism.

你笑死我了,我们是一个大的农业国,后来发展了工业,复制韩国的经济模式?你们整个韩国还没有我们一个省大。
你们种够蔬菜了吗?韩国人想在农业上与中国竞争吗?韩国的西瓜贵,玉米贵,泡菜是从中国进口的。
我不是在嘲笑韩国,我只是确定地说,因为偶尔看到你们的许多明星被迫自杀,为国争光的运动员自杀,几乎都是因为压迫,性侵犯。
我们是一个社会主义国家。我们学习苏联的工业发展和共产主义,但根据国情,所以根据国情定制了社会主义道路的特色,发展共产主义。

@Fred Chuatiuco
Not really. The Japanese workers are much worse off.
To set the tone, a global survey found ranked Japan dead last for workplace well-being. . . with South Korea, second to last. Japanese (49%) and Koreans (53%) are not “happy” at work. Both are ranking neck-to-neck to be not the happiest people on earth.
In Japan, around 12% of workers are at risk of "karoshi," or death from overwork, as they clock in more than 100 hours of overtime each month." While again, South Korea is not far behind - with the world’s highest rate of suicide.
South Korea's suicide rate is the highest among the major advanced countries as nearly 13,000 people committed suicide in 2022, the latest data showed. The suicide rate slightly fell in 2022, however, it is still high among the major advanced countries, Seoul-based Yonhap News reported citing Statistics Korea.
A 2023 Cabinet Office survey estimated 1.46 million working-age Japanese or about 2% of people between the ages of 15 and 64, live as hikikomori. Hikikomori is a Japanese term that refers to people who live in isolation within their homes for at least six months. Some hikikomori only leave their homes to buy groceries or for occasional activities, while others don't even leave their bedrooms. Women make up almost half of hikikomori. South Korea is not far behind - with estimates varying from around 350 thousand to over half a million.
Japan and Korea have also the world’s fertility rate. This time, its the reversed. South Korea has the lowest. South Koreans and the Japanese are not having babies because of work stress and the cost of having children.

不完全是。其实日本工人的情况更糟。
为了设定基调,一项全球调查发现日本在工作场所幸福感排名中垫底……韩国排名倒数第二。日本人(49%)和韩国人(53%)在工作中并不“幸福”。两者在争夺地球上最不幸福的人类排名中不相上下。
在日本,大约12%的工人有“过劳死”的风险,因为他们每月的加班时间超过100小时。而韩国也不甘落后——韩国的自杀率是世界最高的。
最新数据显示,韩国是主要发达国家中自杀率最高的国家,2022年约有13000人自杀。自杀率在2022年略有下降,但在主要发达国家中仍然很高,首尔的韩联社引用韩国统计局的数据报道。
2023年内阁办公室的一项调查估计,约有146万工作年龄的日本人,约占15至64岁人群的2%,生活在自我封闭中。自我封闭是一个日语术语,指的是至少六个月内在家中与世隔绝的人。有些自我封闭者只会离开家去买杂货或偶尔活动,而有些甚至不会离开他们的卧室。女性占自我封闭者的近一半。韩国的情况也不远,估计约有35万到50多万人。
日本和韩国的生育率也是全球最低的。这次情况反过来了。韩国是最低的。韩国人和日本人不生孩子是因为工作压力和养育孩子的成本。

@Wow Wang
China and Japan have gradually found a balance in life in the process of social, cultural and economic development, while South Korea has been under heavy pressure due to the combination of multiple factors. Understanding these differences may provide us with reference for thinking about how to balance development and happiness in the process of modernization.
Icon for All about Korea
As a Korean I feel like the country as a whole is focused on results rather than process. This means that no matter how hard you try and what situation you’re in it’s kind of the social norm to only judge by one’s grade, salary, social status etc. Don’t get me wrong, I love my country and if you’re willing to put in the hard work I feel like it’s one of few countries left in the world where you still have a chance to escape poverty or become successful regardless of your parent’s wealth

中国和日本在社会、文化和经济发展的过程中逐渐找到了生活的平衡,而韩国则因多重因素的叠加而承受着巨大的压力。了解这些差异或许能为我们思考在现代化过程中如何平衡发展与幸福提供参考。
作为一个韩国人,我觉得整个国家都注重结果而不是过程。这意味着无论你多么努力,无论你处于什么情况下,只根据一个人的等级、薪水、社会地位等来判断是一种社会规范。不要误会我的意思,我爱我的国家,如果你愿意付出努力,我觉得它是世界上为数不多的几个公平的国家之一,无论你父母的财富如何,你仍然有机会摆脱贫困或取得成功

@Patti Rogers
I’ve lived here 5 years and it indeed is all about accomplishments. Visuals are everything as well. I love it here however I would succumb to the pressure. Parents want to brag about their children. If you doubt me, you only have to read up on Jin from BTS. High suicide rate as well in young people.

我在这里住了5年,这确实是关于成就的。视觉效果也是一切。我喜欢这里,但是我会屈服于压力。父母想吹嘘他们的孩子。如果你怀疑我,你只需要阅读防弹少年团的金硕珍的履历。年轻人的自杀率也很高。

@Jia xing Chen
I think its the same among Chinese.
It's always about competing and showing that you have more than others at an easy to measure task (grade, money) where non measurable things become “valueless"
Although South Korea is a developed country in terms of economy power, the country was never a level of a developed country in many aspects.
Living in South Korea is so stressful compared to other developed countries because there are something never changes no matter how long it takes. Shit in the 90s is still a shit in 2022 in South Korea.

我认为中国人也是如此。
它总是关于竞争,并表明你比其他人拥有更多于易于衡量的成绩(成绩、金钱),其中不可衡量的东西变得“毫无价值”
虽然韩国在经济实力方面是发达国家,但在许多方面从未达到发达国家的水平。
与其他发达国家相比,在韩国生活压力很大,因为无论需要多长时间,有些东西都不会改变。90年代的狗屎在2022年的韩国仍然是狗屎。

@Joonie
When thinking about stress in relations to development, I see most people not stressed. Of course I’ve seen many stressed out as well.
Long working hours, rude people, and low pay is a big category of stressed out Koreans and development doesn’t help with that. Many people who work in the “services industry” are in this predicament and have daily stress.
In general, S Korea’s development has taken out a lot of stress. Everything working, fast wifi, automation, quick deliveries, and the ease of taking care of official business over the phone adds to a “stress free” life. Personally, a Bachus D and a few hours at my local bathhouse keep stress at bay.

当考虑压力与发展的关系时,我看到大多数人没有压力。当然,我也看到很多人压力很大。
长时间工作、粗鲁的人和低工资的人包含了大部分压力很大的韩国人,而发展对此无济于事。许多在“服务业”工作的人都处于这种困境中,每天都有压力。
总的来说,韩国的发展已经减轻了很多压力。一切正常,快速的wifi,自动化,快速交付,以及通过电话处理公务的便利性,增加了“无压力”的生活。就个人而言,喝一瓶achus D和在我当地的澡堂呆几个小时可以缓解压力。

@Karen Park Lee
First of all, it is a small country with about 52 million people, and its capital Seoul is densely populated. Most South Koreans aspire to live in Seoul because they have not developed rural areas enough for people to want to live there. All these people are competing for limited jobs and universities with a high cost of living and housing.
South Korea is a developed country mostly economically. They have a way to go politically and socially for young people to want to get married and have babies. S.Korea has the lowest birth rate amongst OECD countries. Very sad…

首先,它是一个拥有约5200万人口的小国,其首都首尔人口稠密。大多数韩国人渴望住在首尔,因为他们的农村地区还不够发达,人们想住在那里。所有这些人都在争夺有限的工作和生活和住房成本高昂的大学。
韩国是一个经济发达的国家。他们有一些政策,鼓励社会上的年轻人结婚生子。韩国是经合组织国家中出生率最低的国家。很伤心...

@Pencast Kim
It has only been a decade or so since South Korea turned into a developed country. The GDP per capita of the country is $34,994 in 2022. Compared to Japan, whose GDP per capita is around $40,000, and other “developed” countries around the world, with mostly over $40,000, the figure of South Korea is far behind those of the established countries. It has nothing to do with the level of stress, though.

韩国成为发达国家才十几年。2022年该国的人均 GDP为34,994美元。与人均GDP在4万美元左右的日本和世界上其他“发达国家”相比,韩国的数字远远落后于老牌国家。不过,这与压力水平无关。

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