QA:为什么人们总是谈论古罗马的道路?它们真的那么了不起吗?古代中国和印度难道没有同样惊人的道路吗?
2024-08-01 不要可乐 9145
正文翻译
John Cate
China and India have their own feats of engineering, but here’s a part of the Appian Way, which was built starting in 312 BC, that is still in use today:

中国和印度有它们自己的工程壮举,但这里有一段公元前312年开始建造的亚壁古道至今仍在使用:


I’m sure it’s been well-maintained over the last 2,300 or so years, but it speaks for itself. How many modern-day roadways do you think will still be in use in the year 4319?

我相信它在过去大约2,300年里得到了很好的维护,但它本身就很显而易见。你认为现代道路中有多少条能在4319年仍然在使用?

There are some things the Romans were great at, and others they weren’t so good at it. Anything that had to with engineering, they were outstanding, and this is why you still can see so many Roman structures standing today. Some, like parts of the Appian Way and even a few of their aqueducts, are still in use today. Someone on Quora once asked why they didn’t emulate the Chinese and build a “Great Wall of Rome,” but they even did that. It was called Hadrian’s Wall:

罗马人在某些方面非常擅长,而在其他方面则不太擅长。任何涉及工程的事物,他们都表现出色,这也是为什么今天你仍然可以看到许多罗马建筑仍然屹立的原因。其中一些像亚庇古道的部分甚至他们的一些引水渠,至今仍在使用。在Quora上有人曾经问为什么他们不效仿中国修建一个“罗马长城”,但他们甚至也做到了。那就是哈德良长城。


John Cate's answer to Why didn't the Romans build a great wall of Rome?
So, the main reason people talk about ancient Roman roads is that they were indeed that good. I’m sure there are ancient engineering marvels in India and China; in fact, I know of some of them, but Quora is an English-language site with a Western perspective, and as such, Roman history is going to be better known and more culturally congruent with its readers. If you were in Delhi or Chongqing, or on a website based there, I’m sure you would hear a very different historical perspective.

John Cate对于为什么罗马人没有建造一条伟大的罗马长城的回答:
因此,人们谈论古罗马道路的主要原因是它们确实非常出色。我确信在印度和中国也有古代的工程奇迹;事实上,我知道其中一些,但Quora是一个以英语为主的网站,带有西方视角,因此罗马历史更为人所熟知,并且在文化上更为符合其读者。如果你在德里或重庆,或者在那里的网站上,我敢肯定你会听到一个非常不同的历史观点。

评论翻译
John Cate
Well, I’m sure many roads were built in Europe before the Appian Way, but the Roman state only formed in 509 BC.
India had human civilization before Europe did, so it would make sense that they have older roads.

嗯,我确信在亚庇古道之前欧洲建造了许多道路,但罗马国家是在公元前509年成立的。印度在欧洲之前就有人类文明,所以他们拥有更古老的道路是有道理的。
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Harry Dandas
the appain way was built around 313 bc the first roamn road while the Chinese built their first around 1200 bc. By the time the romans built their first the Chinese had already built 20,000 kilometres of roadways. They were 5 carriageways wide while the roman was one carriageway. They were designated carriageways for their various peoples to travel on eg workers, farmers were only allowed to travel on the 2 outer 1 and 5 , merchants/traders 2 and 4 etc

亚庇古道建于公元前313年,是罗马建造的第一条道路,而中国则在公元前约1200年建造了他们的第一条道路。到罗马建造亚庇古道时,中国已经建造了长达20,000公里的道路。这些道路宽达5车道,而罗马道路只有1车道。它们为不同的人群设立了专用车道,例如工人、农民只能使用外侧的第1和第5车道,而商人和交易者使用第2和第4车道等。
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Pranav Jagdish
However there is a catch - the Roman Roads people talk about so much are many times standing in the same way the Romans left them.
This cannot be said about Ancient Indian roads.

然而,有一个问题——人们如此多次谈论的罗马道路,往往仍然保持着罗马人当时留下的样子。而古代印度的道路则不能这样说了。

Danslon Tanelka
Do you have any factual data about the road existing currently or as usual it is a jhoomla

你是否有任何关于这条道路目前存在的事实数据,或者它通常是一个陷阱

Sheela Jaya
Mauryan empire under Chandragupta Maurya built the first Grand Trunk road from Pataliputra (present day Patna, Bihar) to Taxila in present day Pakistan, a distance of 1600 Km. This was part of a network of roads built by him covering his kingdom. Grand Trunk road is still in use & now is part of NH44 of India.
Kallanai dam (meaning stone dam in Tamil) across the river Cauvery in Tamilnadu, India, was constructed around 100 BC and is still in use today for irrigation.

孔雀王朝在旃陀罗笈多的统治下,从现今的印度比哈尔邦的巴特那(古名帕塔利普特拉)修建了第一条大交通干线道路,延伸至今天的巴基斯坦塔克西拉,全长1600公里。这是他在王国内修建的道路网络的一部分。大交通干线道路至今仍在使用,现已成为印度NH44公路的一部分。
Kallanai大坝(在泰米尔语中意为石坝)跨越印度泰米尔纳德邦的高韦里河,建于公元前约100年,至今仍在用于灌溉。

Keshav Das
What! Did not know that!!
“but Quora is an English-language site with a Western perspective, and as such, Roman history is going to be better known and more culturally congruent with its readers. If you were in Delhi or Chongqing, or on a website based there, I’m sure you would hear a very different historical perspective.”

“什么!我不知道这一点!
“但Quora是一个以西方视角为主的英语网站,因此罗马历史在这里更为人所知,并且与读者的文化更为相称。如果你在德里、重庆或者基于那些地方的网站上,我相信你会听到非常不同的历史视角。”

Durgesh Yadav
I am from India and ancient Indians have indeed made many astonishing structures ( specially temples ) but Rome's roads were in league of it's own, followed by the Persians.

我来自印度,古印度确实建造了许多令人惊叹的结构(尤其是寺庙),但罗马的道路在其独特的领域中独树一帜,紧随其后的是波斯。
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Susanna Viljanen
Civil engineering isn’t the sphere of whole engineering, just a small segment of it.

土木工程并不是整个工程领域的范畴,只是其中的一个小部分。

Alex Joonto
but it’s a very impactful one in people’s lives, much more useful than most of IT engineering of today

但这个大坝对人们的生活影响非常深远,比今天大多数IT工程都要有用多了

Manish Sinha
Well the so called Adam's bridge between indian and Sri Lanka was built more than 5000 years ago.

印度和斯里兰卡之间所谓的亚当桥建于5000多年前。

Assist
Ancient Roman roads are often talked about for several reasons:
Engineering and Construction: Roman roads were known for their advanced engineering and durable construction. They were typically built in straight lines with a slight incline for drainage, and they used various materials such as gravel, sand, and stone. The Romans also developed techniques like the use of a foundation of stones and concrete to ensure durability. The quality of construction allowed these roads to withstand the test of time and many are still visible today.

古罗马道路经常因几个原因而被人们谈论:
工程与建设:古罗马道路以其先进的工程技术和耐久的建筑而闻名。它们通常直线修建,稍微倾斜以利于排水,并采用多种材料如砾石、沙子和石头。罗马人还开发了诸如使用石头和混凝土基础等技术,以确保耐久性。优良的建筑质量使得这些道路经受住了时间的考验,许多道路今天仍然可见。

Network and Extent: The Roman road network was extensive, connecting far-flung parts of the Roman Empire. These roads facilitated the movement of people, goods, and armies, which was crucial for the maintenance and expansion of the empire. The network spanned over 250,000 miles at its peak, reaching as far as Britain, North Africa, and the Middle East.

网络与范围:古罗马道路网络广泛,连接了罗马帝国辽远的地区。这些道路便利了人员、货物和军队的移动,对于帝国的维护和扩展至关重要。在其鼎盛时期,这一网络覆盖了超过25万英里,延伸至不列颠、北非和中东地区。
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Historical Significance: Roman roads played a significant role in shaping the history of Europe and beyond. They facilitated trade, communication, and the spread of Roman culture and influence. The network also contributed to the Roman military's ability to quickly move troops and supplies across the empire.

历史意义:古罗马道路在塑造欧洲及其它地区的历史中发挥了重要作用。它们促进了贸易、交流和罗马文化及影响力的传播。这一网络还增强了罗马军队跨越帝国快速调动军队和补给的能力。

While Roman roads are often highlighted for these reasons, it's important to note that other ancient civilizations, such as China and India, also had impressive road systems. For example:
Ancient China: The ancient Chinese also built extensive road networks, such as the famous Silk Road, which connected China with Central Asia, the Middle East, and Europe. These routes facilitated trade and cultural exchange over vast distances.

虽然古罗马道路因这些原因经常受到关注,但也应注意到其他古代文明,如中国和印度,同样拥有令人印象深刻的道路系统。
古代中国:古代中国也建设了广泛的道路网络,例如著名的丝绸之路,连接了中国与中亚、中东和欧洲。这些路线促进了贸易和文化交流,跨越了广阔的距离。

Ancient India: Ancient India had a well-developed system of roads known as "royal highways" or "royal roads." These roads were used for trade and communication between different regions of the Indian subcontinent and were maintained by the ruling dynasties.

古代印度:古代印度拥有一套完善的道路系统,被称为“王家之路”或“皇家道路”。这些道路用于印度次大陆各个地区之间的贸易和通讯,并由统治王朝进行维护。

While Roman roads are often highlighted in Western historical narratives, it's important to recognize the achievements of other ancient civilizations in road construction and network development. Each civilization had its own unique engineering techniques, materials, and purposes for their road systems, all of which contributed to the advancement of transportation and connectivity in their respective regions.

尽管在西方历史叙事中经常强调古罗马道路,但重要的是要认识到其他古代文明在道路建设和网络发展方面的成就。每个文明都有其独特的工程技术、材料和道路系统的目的,所有这些都促进了各自地区交通运输和互联互通的进步。

Justin Mei
According to Matthew Jones in 1999’s New Civil Engineering, "In engineering terms the Chinese roads were more technologically advanced than their Roman counterparts.
Roman roads relied on thickness and rigidity, and sometimes needed excavations up to 2m deep. This meant they were long lasting but allowed nothing for temperature induced expansion or contraction. They were consequently prone to surface fissuring and uneven drainage.

根据1999年《新土木工程》杂志上马修·琼斯的说法,“在工程技术上,中国的道路比其罗马同行更为先进。罗马道路依赖于厚度和刚性,有时需要挖掘达2米深。这意味着它们耐久,但无法应对温度引起的膨胀或收缩。因此,它们容易出现表面开裂和排水不畅的问题。

The Chinese roads, on the other hand, were more akin to modern highways, being thinner and more elastic. They were built with a rubble sub-base onto which a layer of finely tamped gravel was added to produce a 'water- bound macadam'.”
So according to him, the Chinese did create good roads it just that their road system wasn’t as extensive as Rome’s and forgotten as it was largely abandoned by 300 A.D. with advent of in-land waterways.

另一方面,中国的道路更类似于现代的高速公路,更薄且更具弹性。它们建有碎石子基层,上面铺有精密夯实的碎石层,形成了“水结碎石路面”(water-bound macadam)。”
因此,根据他的观点,中国确实建造了优良的道路,只是他们的道路系统不如罗马的广泛,而且随着内陆水路的出现,在公元300年左右基本被废弃,逐渐被遗忘。

Nomesh Yadu
It is people's prerogative what they talk about. And Roman roads certainly deserve a talk. The roads have earned it.
However don't lose heart. I will tell you a little secret. The great wall of China, you know its not just a wall its well known function was to allow mobility of messengers and thus it is a kind of ancient road in itself.

人们有权选择他们想要谈论的话题。罗马道路确实值得探讨,它们赢得了这样的称赞。
然而,不要灰心。我告诉你一个小秘密。你知道中国的长城,它不仅仅是一堵墙,它的主要功能之一是允许使者通行,因此在某种程度上可以看作是古代的一种道路。

And another one about India. Indians built a road about 2500 years ago which is still in use; rather has been continually been in use and hence has undergone many repairs at the hands of various rulers. In fact how many roads in the world can boast of having seen the thousands years old Mauryans to Mughals to Marathas to British to present day Modern Indians? Yeah India has just the exact road which has witnessed all these and that is Grand Trunk Road - Wikipedia. Originally named as Uttarpatha.

再来说说印度。大约2500年前,印度人修建了一条道路,至今仍在使用,它一直在使用,因此在不同的统治者手中经历了多次修理。事实上,世界上有多少条道路能够自豪地说见证了从孔雀王朝到莫卧儿王朝、玛拉达王国、英国殖民者再到现代印度的变迁?是的,印度就有这样一条道路,那就是大干线公路(Grand Trunk Road),最初被称为Uttarpatha。

Anne Davison
Although China, and to a lesser extent, India, no doubt had roads, they could not compare with the Roman roads which were remarkable for the time. They were wide enough to allow armies to march several abreast as well as ample room for carts and cavalry. Many had pavements, drainage ditches and milestones.
However, one of the most important features is that were were straight, lixing cities across the empire, with the help of bridges and viaducts.

虽然中国,在较小的程度上,印度无疑也有道路,但它们与罗马的道路无法比拟,后者在当时是非常引人注目的。罗马道路宽阔到足以让军队多人并肩行进,同时还有足够的空间供马车和骑兵使用。许多道路铺设有石铺路面,设有排水沟和里程碑。
然而,最重要的特点之一是这些道路是笔直的,通过桥梁和高架桥连接帝国内的城市。

Gregory Norton

The foreground is a section of Roman Road constructed in Germany during the second century A.D. It has not been maintained. It was used so heavily and for so many years that wagon wheels wore grooves in the stone.
Freezing, thawing, rain, snow, heavy traffic - the road (at least this section) is as smooth as any Autobahn or Interstate Highway, all it needs is a layer of asphalt.
Roads usual;y fail because of uplifts or drops in the underlying foundations. This section had no shifts in almost 2,000 years. That is amazing.

这张照片显示的是公元2世纪在德国建造的一段罗马道路。至今没有得到维护。它使用非常频繁,经过多年的使用,马车的车轮在石头上磨出了车辙。
冻结、融化、雨雪、大量车辆——这条道路(至少是这一段)如同任何一条高速公路或州际公路般平整,只需铺上一层沥青即可。
通常道路失效是因为基础下层的隆起或下沉。而这一段近两千年来并没有发生任何变动,这真是令人惊叹的。

Chris Backhaus
Considering a majority of them STILL exist, and some even are still being used as everyday routes I’d say yea….The Romans didnt build things not to last….also, being the 1st civilization to have roads thruout their empire (Europe) helping trade routes and such, they were WAY ahead of their time.

考虑到大部分罗马道路至今仍然存在,并且有些甚至仍在作为日常通道使用,我会说……罗马人建造的东西是有持久性的。他们是第一个在整个帝国(欧洲)内建造道路的文明,这促进了贸易路线等方面,可谓是遥遥领先于他们的时代。

Tom Tuck
Don’t know about China or India, but I doubt that India had an extensive road net because they often did not have an Imperial government to create them. The amazing thing about the Roman roads is that they have lasted 2,000 years and are still in use in many areas. Could no are that to modern roads that require a rebuild every 5 years and are really pretty shoddy.

我不清楚中国或印度,但我怀疑印度没有建立广泛的道路网络,因为他们通常没有一个帝国政府来创建这些道路。罗马道路令人惊奇的地方在于它们已经持续存在了两千年,并且在许多地区仍在使用。这与现代道路形成了鲜明对比,后者每五年就需要重建,质量也相当差劲。

Paul Ross
yes they were. you can walk on some today.And, no, ancient Asian roads do not compare. In fact Roman concrete is vastly superior to our own 21st century material. It has not been duplicated

是的,他们是。今天你仍然可以走在一些罗马道路上。而且,古代亚洲的道路无法与之相比。事实上,罗马的混凝土远比我们现代的材料优越。它还未被复制过。

R E Joshua
Think that the Roman roads were characterised by . being spacious, straight and leading to one destination,so to say, Rome.Indian roads passed through thug infested and wild animals infested areas,thick jungles,but were shady to travellers.Chinese were spacious but inhospitable.

我认为罗马道路的特点是宽敞、笔直,通向一个目的地,也就是罗马。印度的道路穿过盗匪出没和野生动物频繁的地区,茂密的丛林,但对旅行者来说是安全的。中国的道路宽敞但不适合居住。

Damiano Faloci
Because modern european , North african and middle estern’s highways systems are about the same of ancient romans’ , China and India had some isolated unpaved roads like the grand trunk road nothing like roman road system in terms of extension and techniques , in fact romans built a road-network long something like 400.000 km of roads 85.000-100.000 of them were paved and all with an efficient drainage system .

因为现代欧洲、北非和中东的高速公路系统与古罗马的类似,中国和印度只有一些孤立的未铺设道路,比如大主干道,就延伸和技术而言,与罗马的道路系统完全不同。事实上,罗马人建造了大约40万公里的道路网络,其中大约8.5万到10万公里铺设了石板,并且所有道路都有高效的排水系统。

but the most impressive stuff about them are that they were all straight and ancient romans did gigantic obstacles crossing works to get this , they built 933 ark bridges that crossed big river like Rhine or Danube some of them were 1 mile long , their load capacity were between 30 and 52 tons , just like modern bridges , or cutting works like donnas where romans get a road by cutting the alps for 221 meters, or the Montagna spaccata (broken mountain ) where romans literally breaked in 2 an hills for 290 m , and Roman built even impressive tunnels like la gola del furlo along via flaminia or grotta di cocceiano 1 km long , when roman needed to cross a marsh they built causeways or viaducts , so no Chinese and Indians built nothing even close to this .

但最令人印象深刻的是它们都是笔直的,古罗马人克服了巨大的障碍来建造这些道路。他们建造了933座拱桥,跨越莱茵河或多瑙河等大河,其中一些长达1英里。这些桥的承载能力在30到52吨之间,就像现代的桥梁一样强大。他们还进行了像多纳斯这样的开挖工程,在此处罗马人通过开凿阿尔卑斯山脉修筑了长达221米的道路。或者像裂口山(Montagna spaccata)那样,罗马人实际上将 290 米长的山丘凿成 2 座,罗马人甚至建造了令人印象深刻的隧道,例如沿着弗拉米尼亚大道的富尔洛峡谷(la gola del furlo)或长达1公里的科切斯亚诺洞(grotta di cocceiano)。当罗马人需要穿越沼泽时,他们修建了堤道或高架桥。因此,无论是中国人还是印度人,他们都没有建造出任何接近这些规模的工程。

Harry Dandas
the first Chinese roads were built around 1200 bc while rome built its first road around 313 bc the appian way, by the time the romans built their first road the Chinese already had built 20,000 kilometers of roads. The difference between the 2 was that the roman road was one carriageway wide while the Chinese were 5 carriageways wide with markers designating the carriageway. The peasants and workers were only allowed to travel on 1 and 5 carriageways, merchants and traders 2 and 4 while the emperor and ambassadors the middle carriageway

中国的第一条道路建于公元前1200年左右,而罗马在公元前313年左右修建了第一条道路——亚壁古道。到罗马人建造他们的第一条道路时,中国已经建造了2万公里的道路。两者之间的差异在于,罗马的道路只有一条车道宽,而中国的道路有5条车道宽,并设有标志来指示各条车道的用途。农民和工人只允许使用第1和第5条车道,商人和商人只允许在2和4行车道上通行,而皇帝和使臣只允许在中间行车道上通行

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