为什么韩国和日本如此繁荣,而历史上受到美国支持的南美国家政权却如此贫困?
2024-08-14 大号儿童 7783
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Abubakarr S Bangura
Post-War Reconstruction and US Support
South Korea and Japan: Both countries received significant economic aid and support from the United States after World War II. The US played a crucial role in rebuilding Japan's economy through the Marshall Plan and facilitated South Korea's development after the Korean War.
South America: While the US has supported various regimes in South America, the nature of this support often focused on military and political stability rather than comprehensive economic development.

战后重建与美国支持
韩国和日本:两国在二战后都得到了美国的显著经济援助和支持。美国通过马歇尔计划在重建日本经济方面发挥了关键作用,并在朝鲜战争后促进了韩国的发展。
南美洲:虽然美国支持了南美洲的各种政权,但这种支持往往侧重于军事和政治稳定,而不是全面的经济发展。

South Korea and Japan: Both countries implemented strong industrial policies focused on export-led growth, technological advancement, and education. Japan's post-war economic miracle was driven by government-led industrial policy, while South Korea's development was fueled by the government's collaboration with large conglomerates (chaebols).
South America: Economic policies in many South American countries have been inconsistent and often influenced by political instability. There has been a reliance on commodity exports, which are vulnerable to price fluctuations, rather than diversified industrial development.

韩国和日本:两国实施了强有力的工业政策,注重出口导向增长、技术进步和教育。日本的战后经济奇迹由政府主导的工业政策推动,而韩国的发展则依赖于政府与大型财团(财阀)的合作。
南美洲:许多南美洲国家的经济政策不稳定,并且常受到政治动荡的影响。经济过于依赖商品出口,这些商品的价格波动较大,而不是多样化的工业发展。

Luis Rojas
The USA allowed things that in Latin America would have generated the fall of the governments of the region (excluding Mexico and Cuba)
does not take away the achievement and qualities of the eastern countries

美国允许在拉丁美洲发生的事情在该地区会导致政府的垮台(墨西哥和古巴除外),这并不减损东亚国家的成就和优势。

Noborizaka Ken
South Korea received a large amount of aid from Japan. The calyx is worth a whopping 100 trillion yen.
This amount is almost the same as Japan's current national budget, and if South Korea were to repay its debt, the country would be destroyed.

韩国从日本获得了大量援助,这笔援助高达100万亿日元。这一金额几乎与日本当前的国家预算相同,如果韩国要偿还这笔债务,可能会对该国造成严重影响。
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Justin H
The economic answers regarding conglomerates are all accurate and mostly correct. I think the big thing missing is communist influence. We, the US, controleld the theater after world war II. And we fought communist incursions in the area, win or lose, pretty much to a stalemate in most cases. In South America, then communists had already infiltrated, or at least materially supported a LOT of the governments in the area, so the CIA felt it necessary to change those governments. Unfortunately the leading contenders for regime change were corrupt warlord types who supported external conglomerates, not local, (google that banana company), and left their countries utterly corrupt and broken.

关于财团的经济分析都是准确的,基本上是正确的。我认为缺少的关键因素是共产主义的影响。我们,美国,在二战后控制了局势。我们在该地区与共产主义势力进行了斗争,无论胜负,大多数情况下都达到了僵持状态。在南美洲,当时共产主义者已经渗透,或者至少在物质上支持了该地区的许多政府,因此CIA觉得有必要更换这些政府。不幸的是,领导更换政权的主要竞争者往往是腐败的军阀类型,他们支持外部财团而非本地企业(可以搜索一下那个香蕉公司),最终使他们的国家变得极其腐败和破碎。

Larry Fergus
Ask yourself just how it is in the interests of the US for those countries to turn out the way they do.
The US policy after WW2 was to be the best friend Japan and Germany ever had. They went from having been bombed to rubble, to having preeminent industrial economies.
So, what about Latin America? Well, part of the problem was resources that the US wanted. When Latin American leaders put the interests of their people over the interests of US corporations, the US found ways to make those leaders disappear from power.

问问自己,为什么这些国家会以这种方式发展对美国有什么利益。二战后,美国的政策是成为日本和德国最好的朋友。他们从曾经的废墟中恢复过来,成为了领先的工业经济体。
那么,拉丁美洲呢?问题的一部分在于资源,这些资源是美国想要的。当拉丁美洲领导人把他们人民的利益置于美国公司的利益之上时,美国找到了让这些领导人失去权力的方法。

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I don’t think the US ever felt it needed to court South American countries. The US has been far and away the dominant power in the Western hemisphere. If a country like Brazil could get its act together for long enough to become a competitor to the US, and start to exert some hegemony in Latin America, you might see a very different policy develop on the part of the United States.

我认为美国从未觉得需要讨好南美国家。美国在西半球一直是远远主导的力量。如果像巴西这样的国家能够长时间稳定下来,成为美国的竞争对手,并开始在拉丁美洲施加某种霸权,你可能会看到美国采取截然不同的政策。

Shivam Rajbhar
I’ll focus on South Korea because their story is even more dramatic than Japan’s, although both countries employed a very similar strategy.
South Korea literally rose from the ashes to become one of the richest countries in the world today. In 1955 their per-capita GDP was $64; today it’s around $30,000, an increase of almost 500-FOLD.
They went from this:

我将专注于韩国,因为他们的故事比日本的故事更加戏剧化,尽管这两个国家都采用了非常相似的策略。韩国名副其实地从灰烬中崛起,成为当今世界上最富有的国家之一。1955年,他们的人均GDP为64美元;而今天约为30,000美元,增加了近500倍。


To this in a single generation:

在一个世代内从这个状态变成了这样:


How?
The answer lies with the chaebols, family-run conglomerates that dominate the South Korean economy. In the U.S. and Europe we’re all familiar with Samsung phones and Hyundai cars, but within S. Korea itself these companies reach into every corner of day-to-day life.
Let’s look at Samsung, the most famous chaebol that makes up almost 15% of South Korea’s economy.

怎么做到的呢?答案在于财阀——这些家族经营的企业集团主导了韩国经济。在美国和欧洲,我们都熟悉三星手机和现代汽车,但在韩国,这些公司渗透到了日常生活的方方面面。我们来看看三星,这个最著名的财阀,占据了韩国经济近15%。


You can get a university degree at Samsung-affiliated Sungkyunkwan University, then get a job at Samsung and move into your new apartment at Samsung Tower Palace which is equipped with a Samsung-manufactured home security system, air conditioner, TV, refrigerator, oven and microwave. When you get sick you can get treated at Samsung Medical Center in the Gangnam district in Seoul. When you want to get married you can do so at a Samsung-owned venue, and when it’s time to retire you can go to a Samsung retirement home. When your time is up, your funeral arrangements can be handled by a Samsung funeral parlor.

你可以在三星附属的成均馆大学获得大学学位,然后在三星找到一份工作,并搬进你在三星大厦宫殿的新公寓,那里配备了三星制造的家庭安全系统、空调、电视、冰箱、烤箱和微波。当您生病时,您可以在首尔江南区的三星医疗中心接受治疗。当你想结婚时,你可以在三星拥有的场所结婚,到了退休的时候,你可以去三星的养老院。当您的时间到了,您的葬礼安排可以由三星殡仪馆处理。
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The chaebols expanded their influence during the Park Chung-hee era. Park was a military dictator who ruled South Korea from 1961 until his assassination in 1979. The companies were designated for special treatment by the government in order to jump start industrialization and modernize South Korea’s economy. A number of strategies were employed: the firms were protected from foreign competition through tariffs, and given loan guarantees which enabled them to invest and build new factories. Government economic policy favored exports in order to gain foreign capital for further investment. Over time, repeated investment enabled the chaebols to move up the value-added chain, producing more complex, sophisticated products that enabled these companies to then compete directly with their American and European competitors.

财阀在朴正熙时代扩大了他们的影响力。朴槿惠是韩国的军事独裁者,从1961年统治韩国直到1979年被刺杀。为了启动工业化和现代化韩国经济,政府对这些公司给予了特别待遇。采取了多种策略:通过关税保护这些公司免受外国竞争,并提供贷款担保,使它们能够投资并建设新工厂。政府经济政策倾向于支持出口,以获取外国资本进行进一步投资。随着时间的推移,反复投资使财阀能够向上移动到附加值链的更高层次,生产出更复杂、更精密的产品,从而使这些公司能够直接与美国和欧洲的竞争对手竞争。

You can see this most easily with cars. Early Korean imports from Hyundai and Kia were in the low-end segments of the market, compacts and mid-sized sedans. An obsessive focus on reliability enabled them to gain new customers, and supply chain efficiency made them profitable in a low-margin segment of the market. As they got better they started to compete in the more profitable, upper end of the market: SUV’s, luxury sedans and hybrids.

这在汽车领域最为明显。早期,现代和起亚的韩国进口车主要集中在市场的低端段位,如紧凑型车和中型轿车。对可靠性的极度关注使它们赢得了新客户,而供应链的高效性则让它们在低利润市场中获得了盈利。随着技术的提升,它们开始进入利润更高的市场高端领域:SUV、豪华轿车和混合动力车。

This symbiotic relationship between government and business, coupled with the insane work ethic of the Korean people, is what transformed South Korea into the country we know today. The U.S. contribution to this was military. By providing protection through the U.S. / South Korea Mutual Defense Treaty, South Korea was shielded from external threats and given the stability needed for the country to develop. But the bulk of the credit has to go to the Korean people and their leaders, including Park, a brutal dictator who nevertheless set the stage for the remarkable rise of the chaebols.

政府与企业之间的这种共生关系,加上韩国人民惊人的工作伦理,塑造了今天我们所知的韩国。美国在其中的贡献是军事方面的。通过美韩共同防御条约,美国提供了保护,使韩国免受外部威胁,并为国家的发展提供了必要的稳定。然而,主要的功劳还是要归功于韩国人民及其领导人,包括朴正熙,尽管他是一个残酷的独裁者,但他仍然为财阀的显著崛起奠定了基础。
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Bottom line: the nations of South America have not done as well in marshaling their people and resources. Poor political leadership, lack of coherent strategy in economic policy, corruption, the drug trade, inadequate resources devoted to education are all factors that come into play. Compare this to South Korea: ALL of South Korean society, beginning in the 1950’s, focused like a laser beam on one goal, creating a prosperous society. The nations of South America…didn’t.

总的来说,南美国家在调动其人民和资源方面做得不如韩国。糟糕的政治领导、不连贯的经济政策、腐败、毒品贸易、以及教育资源不足等因素都起了作用。相比之下,从1950年代开始,整个韩国社会像激光一样聚焦于一个目标——创造一个繁荣的社会。南美国家则没有做到这一点。

There are downsides to the Korean strategy that are causing a great deal of suffering among her people, which is why many young S. Koreans refer to their country as “Hell Joseon” (Joseon was an ancient dynasty that ruled the Korean peninsula until the late 19th century). The competitive pressures of South Korean society have created one of the highest suicide rates in the world and a rate of poverty among the elderly of almost 50%.
So while the people of South America may not be as materially prosperous, they don’t live in a pressure cooker society where everyone is constantly being pushed to succeed and looked down upon if they don’t.
**Edit** Thank you very much everyone for your upvotes and shares! I’m glad you found the answer useful!**

韩国战略的副作用正在给她的人民带来极大的痛苦,这也是为什么许多年轻的韩国人称自己的国家为“地狱朝鲜”(朝鲜是一个古代王朝,直到19世纪末统治朝鲜半岛)。韩国社会的竞争压力造成了世界上自杀率最高的国家之一,老年人的贫困率接近 50%。
所以,虽然南美洲人民可能没有那么富裕,但他们不生活在一个压力巨大的社会中,那里每个人都被不断推向成功,如果他们不成功,就会被人瞧不起。

Steve Cho
As someone who was first generation American in the 1960’s, I constantly got the question, “Are you Chinese or Japanese?”
I would answer, “My parents came from Korea”.
Then they would say, “But are you Chinese or Japanese?”
It wasn’t very funny back then, but I can laugh about it today. Nobody knew who Korea was and now everyone knows.

作为1960年代的第一代美国人,我常常被问到:“你是中国人还是日本人?”我会回答:“我的父母来自韩国。”然后他们会说:“那你到底是中国人还是日本人?”那时这并不好笑,但现在我可以笑出来了。那时候没人知道韩国是什么,现在每个人都知道了。
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Here’s my view of Korean success and why their growth rate has surpassed the United States: Korea has an industrial policy and we have economic theory. The Korean industrial policy revolved around better education, entrepreneurship and infrastructure. I went to Korea to have my capital equipment built and one of the managers there said to me, “I know why you’re here; you couldn’t get it built in America.” I wanted to say something… then said he was right. They’ll do it for 30% less in half the time. I want a part built, I go down to Busan. Machine shops galore. I was working on a joint project and the guy told me we can put in to the government and get funding. Can’t do that in the US unless it’s for military, a loan or private investment.

这是我对韩国成功的看法,以及为什么他们的增长率超过了美国:韩国有一套工业政策,而我们则有经济理论。韩国的工业政策集中在更好的教育、创业和基础设施上。我去韩国制造我的资本设备时,那里的一个经理对我说:“我知道你为什么来这里;在美国你无法制造。”我想说些什么……然后承认他说的对。他们能以少30%的成本和一半的时间完成。我需要一部分零件,就去釜山。那里有大量的机械厂。我在做一个联合项目时,那个人告诉我,我们可以向政府申请资金。在美国这做不到,除非是军事、贷款或私人投资。

In the United States we have economic theory. Flow to the top and hope it trickles down (it doesn’t). Flow it to the bottom and hope people rise up (it’s not happening). We need another economic option.

在美国,我们有经济理论。把资源流向顶层,期望它会向下渗透(但实际上没有)。把资源流向底层,期望人们能向上爬升(这也没发生)。我们需要另一种经济选择。

Peter Hoffmann
I wouldn’t put Chile in the same boat as the other South American countries. The economic system is based on Milton Friedman’s Free-to-Choose model. As a matter of fact, the economic advisors during the Pinochet regime came from the University of Chicago. The robust economy is more than just mineral exports, which make Chile the only Latin American country in which its citizens enjoy visa-waiver entry into the United States.

我不会把智利和其他南美国家放在同一个篮子里。智利的经济体系基于米尔顿·弗里德曼的“自由选择”模型。事实上,皮诺切特政权时期的经济顾问来自芝加哥大学。强健的经济不仅仅依赖矿产出口,这使得智利成为唯一一个其公民可以免签进入美国的拉丁美洲国家。

The infrastructure is top notch, and the earthquake building code follows California engineering practices with an added margin of safety. Law enforcement’s job is to protect and not collect. Don’t even think of bribing a cop down there. There are issues with cocaine, especially in western Santiago, but this is an Andean land bordering countries where coca leaf consumption is part of the culture.
As a bonus, the night sky is unsurpassable. If you ever plan of to move down there, get yourself a telescope.

基础设施一流,地震建筑规范遵循加州的工程实践,并增加了安全边际。执法部门的职责是保护而不是敲诈。别想着贿赂那里的警察。尽管在圣地亚哥西部有可卡因问题,但这是一个安第斯地区的国家,与那些可卡因叶消费文化相关的国家接壤。
作为额外的奖励,夜空是无与伦比的。如果你计划搬到那里,记得带上望远镜。

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Alicia Parmiter
I worked with a couple of guys from South Korea. Nice people, really kind. They commented that in their home country, people were expected to finish high school, go straight to university to get not only a degree but either a masters or do honours, plus a couple of years military duty. They thought it was a bit too much to only be starting their careers when they were close to thirty; they wanted to start enjoying life while they were still young.

我和几位来自韩国的朋友共事过。他们都很友好、非常善良。他们提到在他们的祖国,人们被期望完成高中学业后直接进入大学,不仅要获得学位,还要取得硕士学位或荣誉学位,再加上几年的军役。他们觉得这样一来,接近三十岁才开始职业生涯有点过于苛刻,他们希望在年轻时就能开始享受生活。

xitong Zou
70% of Koreans hold some form of tertiary education. Think about that. That’s just incredible. America is more around 30% and Canada around 40%. China around 20%. You can see from their highly educated population and competitive society that they pretty much always strive for perfection.

70%的韩国人拥有某种形式的高等教育。想想看,这真是令人难以置信。美国大约为30%,加拿大约为40%,中国大约为20%。从他们高度教育化的社会和竞争激烈的环境中可以看出,他们几乎总是追求完美。

Manuel Iniesta
The US never backed South America's development, though they dearly supported loyal strong men and dictatorships who cared for the US local interests for them.
The region's local leadership quality rarely matched Eastern Asia's, but on the other hand, Japan and Korea were allowed to have strong nationalist, state capitalism governments (like Taiwan, it should be mentioned) as long they were reliable allies against the communist powers.
The funny thing is that desarrollistas economists like Prebisch were well read and aplied at Korea.

美国从未支持过南美的发展,尽管他们非常支持那些忠于美国的强人和独裁者,这些人关心的是美国在当地的利益。
该地区地方领导层的素质很少能与东亚相提并论,但另一方面,只要日本和韩国是对抗共产主义列强的可靠盟友,它们就可以拥有强大的民族主义、国家资本主义政府(如台湾(地区))。
有趣的是,像 Prebisch 这样的发展主义经济学家在韩国受到了很好的教育和应用。

vid Peters
I agree with this. South America's value to the developed world was as a producer of cheap agrarian goods. South Korea and Japan both benefitted from the US needing industrial bases in Asia to fight the Korean war and later Vietnam. In addition, the cold war meant that didn't want to lose any other countries to Communism.
That said, cultural factors were also incredibly important. Both Japan and Korea both existed as centralised nations prior to contact with the west. South American society and hierarchies were obliterated by contact with the west and were basically rebuilt to serve western economies meaning that in the 20th century they lacked the sense of national feeling and centralised authority present in Japan and Korea

我同意这一点。南美洲对发达国家的价值在于生产廉价的农业产品。韩国和日本都受益于美国需要在亚洲建立工业基地,以应对朝鲜战争和后来的越南战争。此外,冷战也意味着美国不希望将其他国家拱手让给共产主义。不过,文化因素也非常重要。日本和韩国在与西方接触之前都存在中央集权的国家体制,而南美洲的社会和等级制度在与西方接触后被摧毁,基本上被重建以服务于西方经济,这导致在20世纪,他们缺乏日本和韩国所拥有的国家认同感和中央集权的权威。

Nacho Talens
Because they are not US-backed. They are Anglo-Saxon exploited. Every year Canadian mining companies extract from Mexico and Peru almost twice as much gold and silver than Spain extracted in 300 years. Plus Spain invested 80% of the gold and silver in the vice-royalties.

因为他们没有得到美国的支持。他们受到盎格鲁-撒克逊人的剥削。每年,加拿大的矿业公司从墨西哥和秘鲁提取的黄金和白银几乎是西班牙300年提取量的两倍。此外,西班牙在副王辖区投资了80%的黄金和白银。

Ricky Tjahyadi
Simple answer because they’re hard working people, they don’t just expect their government to look after them, i mean their government are not corrupt like a lot of South American countries unfortunately. Also their hi education system and willingness to work hard delivered them to where they are today

简单来说,是因为他们勤奋工作,他们不仅仅依赖政府来照顾自己。我的意思是,他们的政府不像很多南美国家那样腐败。再加上他们的高等教育系统和勤奋的工作态度,使他们达到了今天的成就。

Masa
The fundamental reason may be the huge difference in education levels. Below are the 2018 PISA rankings, both Japan and South Korea are ranked highly. In contrast, countries in South America are almost all ranked lower.
As you know, high scientific and technological capabilities are very important for the development of a country. Naturally, a high level of education in the scientific field is extremely important to ensure a high level of scientific and technological competence.
I consider the biggest factor is that there is a huge gap between South American countries and Japan and Korea in terms of the level of education in these scientific fields.

根本原因可能是教育水平的巨大差异。以下是2018年的PISA排名,日本和韩国排名都很高。相比之下,南美洲国家的排名几乎都比较靠后。
众所周知,较高水平的科学和技术能力对国家的发展至关重要。自然,科学领域的高水平教育对于确保科学和技术能力的高水平极为重要。我认为最大因素是南美国家在这些科学领域的教育水平与日本和韩国之间存在巨大的差距。

Mad Corean
There was a high restriction on education for Koreans. There was such a high illiteracy rate because parents didn't want their children to get brainwashed at Japanese schools. They rather be illiterate than traitors, and sought to educate from other means. Even before the occupation, education was restricted to higher classes.

韩国曾经对教育有很高的限制。由于父母不希望孩子在日本学校被洗脑,文盲率非常高。他们宁愿保持文盲,也不愿意成为叛徒,选择从其他途径进行教育。即使在占领之前,教育也仅限于较高的阶层。

When the U.S beat Japan, that all changed. Koreans showed a huge appetite for knowledge. They showed this in appreciation to U.S military training. Even prior, Koreans usually went to Ivy league schools when studying in the U.S. The pursuit of education is a staple of modern Korean culture now because of the previous environment.

当美国击败日本后,这一切发生了变化。韩国人展现出强烈的求知欲。他们对美国军事训练表示了高度的认可。即便在此之前,韩国人通常会去美国的常春藤名校学习。由于之前的环境,追求教育已经成为现代韩国文化的重要组成部分。

Jorge Beyaz
Because that country of the gringos hate the language spanish , they don't want to see spanish nations to prosper as the same as what did they did to the Philippines thet used to speak Spanish and the gringos came and took away from them the saw spanish as bad influence

因为那些“gringos”(指的是美国人)厌恶西班牙语,他们不希望西班牙语国家像他们对待菲律宾那样繁荣。菲律宾曾经讲西班牙语,但美国人来了,把西班牙语从他们的生活中夺走了,他们认为西班牙语对菲律宾的影响不好。

Robert Wright
Japan and ROK have Japanese and Korean cultures. South America has South American cultures. That is the non-PC-clouded truth and answer.

日本和韩国各自有日本和韩国文化。南美洲有南美洲文化。这就是未被政治正确遮蔽的真实答案。

Gregory Norton
Differences in cultures.
For example, Spain and Portugal are the poorest nations in Western Europe (per capita).
South American nations have Spanish or Portuguese (Brazil) cultures; as in Spain and Portugal those cultures are less conducive to prosperity than nearby cultures and evidently less conducive to prosperity than the cultures of S. Korea and Japan.
President Wilson sent the Marines into some South American nations “to teach them to have good governments”, further impoverishing them. U.S. backing does not seem to enhance the prosperity of Spanish culture.

文化的差异。例如,西班牙和葡萄牙是西欧最贫穷的国家(按人均计算)。南美洲国家有西班牙或葡萄牙(巴西)的文化;在西班牙和葡萄牙,这些文化比邻近的文化更不利于繁荣,而显然也比韩国和日本的文化更不利于繁荣。威尔逊总统曾派遣海军陆战队进入一些南美洲国家“教他们如何拥有良好的政府”,进一步加剧了他们的贫困。美国的支持似乎没有增强西班牙文化的繁荣。

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