为什么韩国历史上一直是弱国?
2024-08-30 种花家一只兔 9296
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Ah Lîm Follow
Korea has not always been a historically weak state. In fact, Korea used to be an incredibly powerful state.
During King Gwanggaeto the Great (391–413 AD), the Korean kingdom of Goguryeo was arguably the most powerful kingdom in Northeast Asia. At that time, China fell into division of multiple kingdoms, with northern China constantly getting raped by the five Hu tribes. King Gwanggaeto defeated the xianbei (who were the most powerful nomads of northern China at that time) state of Later Yan, and repulsed Japanese pirate invasions from the south.
Fast forward two to three hundred years later. Goguryeo managed to repel multiple invasions from Sui Yangdi, and then later Tang Taizong. Only during Tang Gaozong’s reign did Goguryeo finally fell to Tang. In other words, it took one entire Chinese dynasty (Sui), plus one of the greatest conqueror in Chinese history (Tang Taizong), plus numerous attempts from Gaozong, plus another Korean ally Silla, before the Chinese were finally able to defeat Goguryeo. This is not a weak kingdom by any means; I think there is enough evidence to suggest that Korea (specifically Goguryeo) was the most powerful country in Northeast Asia for several periods of time within the first thousand years after Jesus.
Then, when we jump ahead to the Mongol invasions, it took the Mongols 6 (six!) invasions and close to thirty years of war before Korea finally surrendered (and even then, Korea wasn’t entirely absorbed into Yuan… more like a quasi-state). The only other country that gave the Mongols this much grief was China, and considering that Korea is much smaller than China, I think Korea overall did a better job of fighting off the Mongols than the Chinese did.

历史上,韩国并非一直都是弱国。事实上,韩国曾经是一个非常强大的国家。
在广开土大王(公元 391-413 年)时期,高句丽可以说是东北亚最强大的国家。当时,中国陷入了多国分裂,中国北方不断遭到五个胡人部落的蹂躏。广开土大王击败了鲜卑(当时中国北方最强大的游牧民族)后燕国,并击退了来自南方的日本海盗入侵。
两三百年后,高句丽成功击退了隋炀帝和后来的唐太宗的多次入侵。直到唐高宗统治期间,高句丽才最终被唐朝灭亡。换句话说,经过整个中国王朝(隋朝),加上中国历史上最伟大的征服者之一(唐太宗),加上唐高宗的多次尝试,再加上另一个朝鲜盟友新罗,中国人才最终击败了高句丽。这绝不是一个弱小的王国;我认为有足够的证据表明,在公元后的头一千年里,朝鲜(特别是高句丽)曾是东北亚最强大的国家。
然后,当我们跳到蒙古入侵时,蒙古人经过了六次(六次!)入侵和近三十年的战争,朝鲜才最终投降(即便如此,朝鲜也没有完全被元朝吸收....更像是一个准国家)。唯一一个给蒙古人带来如此大痛苦的国家是中国,考虑到朝鲜比中国小得多,我认为朝鲜在抵抗蒙古人方面总体上比中国做得更好。

I think Korea didn’t start to wane until the start of the Joseon dynasty (1392 and onwards). I don’t know that much about Korean history from this point on, but I know that the Joseon dynasty began to embrace Confucianism and shunned its traditional military culture (the same thing happened to China). For example, other than Yi Sun-Shin, the Koreans did a terrible job at war during the Japanese invasions of 1592. I’ve read history books that said that Korea at that time thought Japan, which was ruled by warriors (the samurais), to be a barbaric country. Korea pride itself on being a civilized country because it was ruled by aristocrats and scholars, just like Ming China was. If you look at Ming, which was also ruled by Confucianism, it was very much the same way as Korea was (shunning the military, embracing the scholars).
This is why Ming, in contrast to Han and Tang (two previous Han Chinese empires), was not very expansionist. It would take the Manchus, a warlike tribe in the northeast, to conquer China before China became expansionist again. But guess what happened after the Manchus conquered China and expanded the Chinese territory? They accepted the Confucian culture, and as a result, lost their warrior culture, which was partly responsible for its decline and falling victim to Western and Japanese invasions.
So I think what happened in the past few hundred years that made Korea seemed weaker than its other two neighbors is the culture of valuing scholars over all other professions.

我认为直到朝鲜王朝(1392 年及以后)开始,韩国才开始衰落。我对此后的韩国历史了解不多,但我知道朝鲜王朝开始信奉儒家思想,摒弃了传统的军事文化(中国也发生了同样的事情)。例如,除了李舜臣,朝鲜人在 1592 年日本入侵期间的战争中表现糟糕。我读过历史书,书中说,当时的韩国认为由武士统治的日本是一个野蛮的国家。韩国以自己是一个文明国家而自豪,因为它是由贵族和学者统治的,就像明朝中国一样。如果你看看同样受儒家思想统治的明朝,你会发现它与韩国非常相似(摒弃军事,拥抱学者)。
这就是为什么明朝与汉朝和唐朝(之前的两个汉人帝国)相比,扩张主义并不强的原因。直到满族(东北的一个好战部落)征服了中国,中国才再次扩张。但你猜满族征服中国并扩张中国领土后发生了什么?他们接受了儒家文化,结果失去了他们的武士文化,这在一定程度上导致了韩国的衰落和成为西方和日本入侵的牺牲品。
所以我认为,过去几百年来,韩国之所以看起来比其他两个邻国弱,是因为韩国重视学者胜过其他所有职业。

Paul Seo Follow
Historically, Korea was never weak. They just saw no reason to fight due to there being no major threat. I know what you’re thinking: China, Manchuria, and Japan. Well, let me explain.
China: Korea always maintained close ties with China, and sent tribute, rarely attacking China. As a result, China saw no interest in conquering Korea and instead maintained relatively friendly relations.
Manchuria: The Manchurians were for most of their history, nomadic tribes. Other than occasional raids along the border, they posed no major threat to Korea. The only time they were a big threat was when they formed into the Qing, but they adopted a Chinese approach and instead turned Korea into a vassal.
Japan: Japan posed no threat to Korea up until the 16th century. Japan for the most part even sent envoys to Korea and learned from them, so Korea never thought of them as a threat.
So, it wasn’t necessarily weak, there was no big need to be militarily strong. However, Korea was very powerful.

从历史上看,朝鲜从来就不弱。他们只是觉得没有理由打仗,因为没有重大威胁。我知道你在想什么:中国、满洲地区和日本。好吧,让我解释一下。
中国:朝鲜一直与中国保持密切联系,并向中国进贡,很少攻击中国。因此,中国对征服朝鲜不感兴趣,而是保持了相对友好的关系。
满洲:满族在其大部分历史中都是游牧部落。除了偶尔沿边境袭击外,他们对朝鲜没有构成重大威胁。他们唯一一次构成重大威胁是在他们成立清朝的时候,但他们采用了和中国同样的做法,反而把朝鲜变成了附庸国。
日本:直到 16 世纪,日本对朝鲜都没有构成威胁。日本大部分时间甚至派遣使者前往朝鲜并向他们学习,所以朝鲜从未认为他们是威胁。
所以,它不一定弱,是没有必要在军事上强大。然而,朝鲜非常强大。

The Korean state of Goguryeo defeated the Sui Dynasty at least 3 times, and the Korean kingdom of Silla defeated the Tang and drove them out of the Korean peninsula. The Korean state of Goryeo also was highly militaristic and defeated the northern tribes in battles, and defeated the Mongols 9 times!
The Joseon Dynasty, however, was not about fighting, and instead was about peace. However, they weren’t weak and destroyed the Japanese navy during the Imjin War with the famed Turtle Ship and the famous Crane Wing formation.
I think most assume Korea was weak due to its relation with China, but let me say, no! Korea maintained close relations with China to avoid conflict. Many Korean states could’ve withstood Chinese occupation. I mean, an entire dynasty (Sui) fell because of its losses against the Goguryeo. So in short, it was never weak, just had no major reason to fight.

高句丽至少三次击败隋朝,新罗击败唐朝,将他们赶出朝鲜半岛。高丽也非常军国主义,在战争中击败北方部落,九次击败蒙古人!
然而,朝鲜王朝不热爱战争,而是钟爱和平。然而,他们并不软弱,在壬辰倭乱期间,他们用著名的龟船和鹤翼阵摧毁了日本海军。
我认为大多数人认为朝鲜弱是因为它与中国的关系,但我要说,不是!朝鲜与中国保持着密切的关系,以避免冲突。许多朝鲜国家可以承受中国的占领。我的意思是,整个王朝(隋朝)都是因为输给高句丽而灭亡的。简而言之,它从来都不弱,只是没有重大的战斗理由。

Blake Horner Follow
They haven’t historically always been weak. The last century or so has hurt their reputation a lot, which tends to happen when you’ve been invaded three times in less than a century (China, Japan, then North vs. South). Nowadays, the southern Korea is actually pretty steady economically and socially. They have a lot of things going for them, namely their close trade and military ties with the US, among other things.
North Korea is a dying state, and I actually don’t doubt that its only a matter of time before something changes. You could say things are already starting to change, but I’d say we are still a decade or so away from them actually collapsing.
Now, Korea started out like many nations fractured into several kingdoms. China, specifically the Han Dynasty, took control in about 108 BC, but eventually all but one of the four rulers they installed there fled their posts. Eventually the Koreans actually pushed them out by the Medi times. For about a millennia, the Koreans were in flux. They had a great empire that reached its zenith about the 5th century, and a smaller but strong and civil kingship that was overseen by the Chinese by about 900. After that the Koreans were constantly invaded by the Mongols as the Chinese fell, though they were never successfully conquered. Eventually, they were tired of the fighting and simply pledged allegiance to Kublai Khan. This lasted almost half a millennia before they were free of their influence. Once they were free, they came under China’s influence again as a tributary state, but experienced a lot of peace and prosperity that made them an economic powerhouse.

从历史上看,他们并不总是软弱的。在过去的一个世纪左右,他们的声誉受到了很大损害,这种情况往往发生在不到一个世纪内被入侵三次(中国、日本,然后是南北战争)的情况下。如今,韩国的经济和社会实际上相当稳定。他们有很多事情要做,例如与美国的密切贸易和军事联系等。
北朝鲜是一个垂死的国家,我实际上并不怀疑它的巨变只是时间问题。你可以说事情已经开始改变,但我想我们距离他们真正崩溃还有十年左右的时间。
现在,朝鲜就像许多分裂成几个王国的国家一样。中国,特别是汉朝,在公元前 108 年左右取得了朝鲜半岛的统治权,但最终他们在那里安置的四个郡的统治者中除了一个之外都逃离了他们的职位。最终,朝鲜人在中世纪将他们赶了出去。大约一千年来,朝鲜人一直处于动荡之中。他们拥有一个伟大的帝国,大约在 5 世纪达到顶峰,还有一个规模较小但强大而文官统治的王国,大约在900年由中国人统治。此后,随着中国灭亡,朝鲜人不断遭到蒙古人的入侵,尽管他们从未被成功征服。最终,他们厌倦了战斗,只是向忽必烈宣誓效忠。这种情况持续了近半个世纪,他们才摆脱了中国的影响。获得自由后,他们再次受到中国的影响,成为朝贡国,但经历了许多和平与繁荣,使他们成为经济强国。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Now this is where I can definitely say the Koreans were strong. They were economically stable, and, despite not funding their military as much as they should’ve, they actually pioneered some of the first “heavy duty” warships, the turtle ship. Essentially this vessel was an armored box with heavy cannon and good crews, that was near unstoppable in the Eastern waters of the time.
The Japanese invaded in the 1500s. While the ground army of Korea struggled, their navy was far better prepared than they were. The Japanese had a habit of using their superior marines to board Korean vessels, or any enemies, and taking them down that way. Koreans didn’t do that. They used cannon and excellent sharpshooters to destroy their enemy from afar. Thanks to the leadership of Yi Sun-sin, the Korean Navy destroyed the Japanese one, and ended up halting their invasion almost outright. This pretty much starved and damaged morale of the Japanese on the peninsula, and thanks to Chinese help, they eventually won the day.
Now from here on out is pretty much where Korea became a lot weaker. They were invaded successfully by the Manchu people, then came under the influence of the Chinese again for another 2 centuries. The dynasty of the time eventually collapsed due to corruption and riots, and for a while were in dire straits. They eventually fell under imperialist influence and were modernized to some extent during their stint of the Great Korean Empire (1897–1910). It was eventually invaded by the Japanese, who ruled them to the end of WWII, and was then divided into the two Koreas we know today by the US and Russia.

现在我可以肯定地说,朝鲜人很强大。他们经济稳定,尽管没有为军队提供应有的资金,但他们实际上开创了一些第一批“重型”战舰——龟船。本质上,这种船是一个装甲箱,配有重型大炮和优秀的船员,当时在东部海域几乎势不可挡。
日本人在 16 世纪入侵。当朝鲜地面部队苦苦挣扎时,他们的海军准备得比他们陆军好得多。日本人习惯于使用他们优秀的海军陆战队登上朝鲜船只或任何敌人的船,并以此方式击落他们。朝鲜人没有这样做。他们使用大炮和优秀的神枪手从远处摧毁敌人。由于李舜臣的领导,朝鲜海军摧毁了日本的船只,并最终几乎完全停止了他们的入侵。这几乎使半岛上的日本人士气低落,多亏了中国人的帮助,他们最终赢得了胜利。
从那以后,古代朝鲜几乎变得弱了很多。他们被满族人成功入侵,然后又受到中国的影响,持续了两个世纪。当时的王朝最终因腐败和暴乱而崩溃,一度陷入困境。他们最终受到帝国主义的影响,并在大韩帝国时期(1897-1910)在一定程度上实现了现代化。它最终被日本人入侵,日本人统治他们直到二战结束,然后被美国和俄罗斯分成我们今天所知道的两个朝鲜。

That is a quick recap of their history that I’ve gotten from various history books I have and Wikipedia, so I apologize if it seems short, missing information, or is wrong lol.
But the gist of it should be that Korea has militarily been relatively weak compared to other nations simply because they never had time or the culture to build up an impressive army. Their position on the peninsula between Japan and China means their land was a valuable asset to have militarily, and as such were invaded constantly for several millennia. That isn’t to say they have always been weak, but they haven’t always been strong either.
Anyways, hope that helps!

这是我从我拥有的各种历史书籍和维基百科中得到的关于他们历史的简要回顾,所以如果它看起来很短、缺少信息或有误,我深表歉意。
但要点应该是,与其他国家相比,韩国的军事实力相对较弱,仅仅是因为他们没有时间或文化来建立一支令人印象深刻的军队。他们在日本和中国之间的半岛上的位置意味着他们的土地是军事上的宝贵资产,因此几千年来不断遭到入侵。这并不是说他们一直很弱,但他们也并非一直很强大。
无论如何,希望这能有所帮助!

Hojai Jung Follow
I do not think so. Historically, Korea was not so weak state. Anyway, she has been maintained her sovereignty over two thousand years. Even, many historians uate that keeping her independence could be one of the miracles considering her disadvantageous location just between China and Japan. As you know, historically China empires had been maintaining too much strong existence to cope with for the middle-sized kingdoms.
Consequently, so many ancient kingdoms could not resist their destiny to be a part of China civilization. Anyway, Korea is survived among various historical changes during over two millennia. Moreover, Korea sometimes very flourished by their cultural aspects into neighboring regions. Now, South Korea's economic amount would be included as the top 10 countries in the world. That is not a small size considering its separation and a small population compared to other Asian countries. Korea history should be uated properly not only by her survival but also by her prosperity.

我不这么认为。从历史上看,韩国并不是一个如此弱小的国家。无论如何,它已经维持了两千年的主权。甚至,许多历史学家评价说,考虑到它位于中国和日本之间的不利位置,保持独立可能是奇迹之一。如你所知,历史上中国帝国一直保持着强大的存在,中等大小的王国无法应对。因此,许多古代王国无法抗拒成为中国文明一部分的命运。无论如何,在两千多年的各种历史变迁中,韩国幸存了下来。此外,韩国有时通过其文化方面在中国邻近地区实现繁荣。现在,韩国的经济总量将列为世界前十名国家。考虑到与其他亚洲国家相比,韩国的土地和人口较少,但实际上这个规模并不小。韩国的历史应该不仅根据它的生存来评价,也应该根据它的繁荣来评价。

Eren Doguoglu Follow
Historically Korea has acted as a buffer state between larger states, be it China and Russia, China and Japan, China and Russia and more recently, China and the US. Being a small country next to such monolithic states, it has been influencing by the great power dynamics around it. Only recently, with its rapid industrialization, South Korea has become one of the largest economies in the world. During pre-industrial times, it was simply impossible for a state of that size to be a powerful state, when it was surrounded by much larger states, with much more resources. Even today, South Korea is dependent on the US, just like North Korea is dependent on China for its own security. Divided and at conflict with each other, Korea is unable to recognize its full potential and surrounded by larger powers, it seems like Korea will continue to defined by the relations of the states that hold influence in the region. Thus, Korea continues to struggle with its geographic reality, unable to fully take control of its own fate.

从历史上看,韩国一直充当着大国之间的缓冲国,无论是中国和俄罗斯、中国和日本、中国和俄罗斯,还是最近的中国和美国。作为一个与这些大国相邻的小国,韩国一直受到周围大国动态的影响。直到最近,随着工业化的快速发展,韩国才成为世界上最大的经济体之一。在工业化前时期,当周围都是大得多、资源多得多的国家时,像韩国这样规模的国家根本不可能成为强国。即使在今天,韩国也依赖美国,就像朝鲜依赖中国来保障自己的安全一样。由于分裂和相互冲突,韩国无法充分发挥自己的潜力,而且被大国包围,韩国似乎将继续受到在该地区有影响力的国家关系的影响。因此,韩国继续与其地理现实作斗争,无法完全掌握自己的命运。

Adolphus Hoffmann Follow

Some people seem to think that 高句麗 is considered a Korean regime, but Goguryeo is not actually a Korean regime. If 高句麗 is considered a Korean regime, then any regime in China's Han Dynasty, Yan, and Tang Dynasty that expanded its territory to the Korean Peninsula is considered a Korean regime.
高句麗 is a prefecture of the Han Dynasty managed by the Fuyu people and the Han people. The name 高句麗 was taken by the Han people. The people living in 高句麗 County are mainly Han Chinese. After the rebellion in 高句麗 County, it became the 高句麗 Kingdom.However, the 高句麗 Kingdom was only in the northeast of China at that time, and it was soon suppressed by the Han Dynasty, and the King of 高句麗 was eliminated from the title of king and became the Marquis of 下句麗 .
有些人似乎认为高句丽算是朝鲜的一个政权,但高句丽其实并不是朝鲜的一个政权。如果把高句丽算作朝鲜的一个政权,那么中国汉朝、燕朝、唐朝时期凡是将领土拓展到朝鲜半岛的政权都算是朝鲜的一个政权。
高句丽是汉朝的一个郡县,由扶余人和汉人共同管理。高句丽这个名字是汉人取的,高句丽县居住的人主要是汉人。高句丽县发生叛乱后,变为高句丽国。不过当时高句丽国只在中国的东北地区,很快就被汉朝镇压了,高句丽国王也被取消了国王的称号,成为下句丽侯。
After the demise of the Han Dynasty, 高句麗 reappeared. Its scope was only in the northeast of China, but it was often conquered by China and various regimes. Even the local regimes on the Korean peninsula also invaded 高句麗. For example, in 342 AD, China’s Former Yan invaded 高句麗. , Former Yan captured more than 50,000 households of 高句麗 people, then burned the 高句麗 Palace with fire, and razed 高句麗's 丸都城 to the ground.
Over time, it continued to expand, be invaded, and conquered. By 576 AD, only a small part of 高句麗 's territory was in the Korean Peninsula, and the rest of the territory was in Northeast China.
In 666 AD, the Tang Dynasty of China wiped out 高句麗 and took control of part of the Korean peninsula. The only native regime on the Korean peninsula that exists is Silla. Silla is the origin of what is now Korean.
汉朝灭亡后,高句丽重新出现,其范围只限于中国东北地区,但时常被中国和各个政权所征服,甚至朝鲜半岛的地方政权也入侵高句丽,例如公元342年,中国的前燕入侵高句丽,前燕俘虏了高句丽人五万余户,随后用火焚烧高句丽宫殿,把高句丽的丸都城夷为平地。
随着时间的推移,它不断扩张、被入侵、被征服。到了公元576年,高句丽的领土只有一小部分在朝鲜半岛,其余的领土都在中国东北地区。
公元666年,中国唐朝灭掉高句丽,控制了朝鲜半岛的部分地区。朝鲜半岛现存的唯一本土政权是新罗。新罗是现在的韩国的起源。
Hundreds of years later, some descendants of 高句麗 established the 高麗 Dynasty on the Korean peninsula. The 高麗 Dynasty was a vassal state of China. Only a few nobles in the 高麗 Dynasty were descendants of 高句麗, and most of the rest of the nobles and common people were descendants of Silla.
In 1392, the 高麗 Dynasty was eliminated by Yi Seonggye, a general of the former 高麗 Dynasty, and the Joseon Dynasty was established, which also denied 高句麗 as a Korean regime.

In 1897, the Joseon Dynasty collapsed and the Korean peninsula was controlled by Japan. Influenced by the concept of "national independence" from the West and trying to free Koreans from Japan's control, Korean nationalists fled from the Korean Peninsula to China. They hid in China and reconstructed the national history of Koreans, trying to make other Koreans willing to join in the activities against Japan. This kind of revisionism has affected how Koreans get along with other countries. Now Koreans are trying to claim that the regime whose territory reaches the Korean peninsula is the "Korean regime". At the same time, the South Koreans also deny the sovereignty of other countries to the regimes whose territories reach the Korean Peninsula, even if these regimes originated from other countries, and most of the territories are in other countries, not the Korean Peninsula.

几百年后,高句丽的部分后裔在朝鲜半岛建立了高丽王朝。高丽王朝是中国的藩属国,高丽王朝中只有少数贵族是高句丽的后裔,其余贵族和平民大多是新罗的后裔。
1392年,高丽王朝被前高丽王朝将领李成桂灭亡,朝鲜王朝建立,也否定了高句丽是朝鲜政权。
1897年,朝鲜王朝灭亡,朝鲜半岛被日本控制。受西方“民族独立”思想的影响,为使朝鲜人摆脱日本的控制,朝鲜民族主义者从朝鲜半岛逃到中国。他们躲在中国,重构朝鲜人的民族历史,试图让其他朝鲜人愿意加入到抗日活动中。这种修正主义影响了朝鲜人与其他国家相处的方式。现在韩国人极力宣称领土到达朝鲜半岛的政权就是“韩国政权”,同时韩国人还否认其他国家对领土到达朝鲜半岛的政权拥有主权,即使这些政权源于其他国家,而且大部分领土都在其他国家,而不是朝鲜半岛。

victim:

Kingdom of 渤海.
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Only a very small portion of the territory is located on the Korean peninsula.

高句麗 Kingdom.
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Originated in Northeast China, it was controlled by the Fuyu people and the Han people, and only annexed the counties and counties of the Chinese Han Dynasty on the Korean Peninsula. It was destroyed by the Tang Dynasty, and all the territories and people it owned were taken over by the Tang Dynasty.

受害者:
渤海国。
只有极小部分领土位于朝鲜半岛。
高句麗国。
发源于中国东北,由扶余族和汉族控制,只吞并了朝鲜半岛上中国汉朝的郡县。后被唐朝灭亡,其拥有的领土和人民全部被唐朝接管。

Pavel Astakho Follow
Korea was a vassal of China from 1392-1894 because the general who was ordered to command the Korean army decided that it would be more profitable for him to be a ruler under the rule of China than to fight against China and possibly die.
And to keep his dynasty 500 years allowed the system that still operates in Choson - North Korea. In the west they do not know but Joseon is the official name of this state. And Kim Il Sung did not come up with anything new.
Even the Imjin war that is now mythologized in Korea was not a war between Korea and Japan, but between China and Japan. Korea has not played any significant role. And all the fairy tales about Yyben are just Korean fairy tales. To hide the fact of 40 thousandth Chinese contingent of the first wave, and 60 thousand army on the approach.
But for the dynasty it had a benefit. The dynasty retained Joseon under its authority, having no real power for this, except for a vassal position towards China. So in Korean politics it's normal, to use someone who considers himself a suzerain for his own purposes.
Until then, however, there was a period of strong silla-koguryeo people of the state. The new Goguryeo 1039-1254 was a really strong and prosperous Empire. But mentally those people were quite different from modern Koreans, like Koryo Saram, they therefore called themselves Koryo to show that they are mentally, not chosons.

1392 年至 1894 年,朝鲜一直是中国的藩属,因为受命指挥朝鲜军队的将军认为,与其与中国开战并可能丧命,不如在中国的统治下当统治者,这样对他来说更有利。
为了维持他的王朝 500 年,朝鲜一直实行这种制度。西方人不知道,朝鲜是这个国家的正式名称。金日成也没有提出任何新的想法。
即使是现在在朝鲜被神话化的壬辰倭乱也不是朝鲜和日本之间的战争,而是中国和日本之间的战争。朝鲜没有发挥任何重要作用。所有关于击败日本的童话都只是韩国的童话。韩国人隐藏了第一波中国部队的 40000 人以及即将到来 60000 人的军队的事实。
但对中央王朝来说,这是有好处的。王朝将朝鲜置于其权威之下,除了对中国的附庸地位外,没有对其行事真正的权力。所以在韩国政治中,利用一个自认为是宗主的国家来达到自己的目的是很正常的。
然而,在那之前,有一段时期,新罗-高句丽人统治着这个国家。1039-1254 年的新高句丽是一个真正强大和繁荣的帝国。但在思想上,高丽萨拉姆(俄罗斯远东地区朝鲜族人)那些人与等现代韩国人截然不同,因此他们称自己为高丽人,以表明他们在思想上是高丽人,而不是朝鲜人。

Bill Chen
Korean terrain is difficult and mountainous. Its latitude also makes the climate very harsh. Easy to defend if you’re already there… not so easy to invade.
I suspect the supply lines are very hard to replenish.
Same reasons for Vietnam’s much vaunted strength in repulsing the Chinese.

朝鲜地形复杂,多山。其所处纬度也使其气候非常恶劣。如果你已经在那里,会很容易防守....但入侵就不那么容易了。
我怀疑补给线很难补给。
这也是越南在击退中国人时大肆吹嘘自己实力的原因。

Dong-Yoon Lee
If we(China, Japan, Vietnam, Korea and Taiwan) make devices to prevent ourselves from ignoring inferior groups’ dignity, East Asia can provide a vast amount of good influence to the world. Because we basically love peace.

如果我们(中国、日本、越南、韩国和台湾(地区))采取措施防止自己忽视劣势群体的尊严,东亚就可以为世界带来巨大的良好影响。因为我们本质上热爱和平。

Tu Ngo
Thanks for the very informative and interesting answer. However, I don’t totally agree with you on 2 details (of course feel free to correct me if I’m wrong).
Confucianism didn’t necessarily weaken military capability.
Confucianism was strongly embraced in many periods in China such as the Han dynasty, which had a very expansionist behavior.
So maybe it was something else (or some combination other factors) that made Joseon became less focused on militarism.
About the Mogol Empire’s conquests:
While I have much admiration and respect for Korean states of old, there was one country better than both China and Korea in terms of repelling the Mongols. This is Vietnam (Dai Viet at the time), who turned the 3 invasions of the Mongol Empire (and later the Yuan dynasty) into disasters & never surrendered.

感谢您提供的信息丰富且有趣的答案。但是,我不完全同意您的两个细节(当然,如果我错了,请随时纠正我)。
儒家思想并不一定会削弱军事能力。
儒家思想在中国的许多时期都受到强烈推崇,例如汉朝,当时汉朝的行为非常具有扩张性。
所以也许是其他原因(或其他因素的组合)让朝鲜不再那么注重军国主义。
关于蒙古帝国的征服:
虽然我非常钦佩和尊重古代的朝鲜国家,但有一个国家在击退蒙古人方面比中国和朝鲜都做得更好。这就是越南(当时的大越),它将蒙古帝国(以及后来的元朝)的三次入侵变成了灾难,并且从未投降。

Harvey King
Is it accurate to describe Goguryeo a “Korean” culture?

将高句丽描述为“韩国”的文化准确吗?
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Raymond Chow
The modern Koreans are descendants of the three countries in the Korean Peninsula on this map. The Goguryeo is the enemy of the Korean. Interesting!

这张地图上的现代韩国人是朝鲜半岛三国的后裔。高句丽是朝鲜人的敌人。有趣!

Eul Ji
Yes, it is. Korea has ethnical, cultural, historical inheritance of Goguryeo.
But after the early2000s Some Chinese began to claim that Goguryeo was part of china.

是的。韩国继承了高句丽的民族、文化和历史。
但21世纪初以后,一些中国人开始声称高句丽是中国的一部分。

Zayne Chu
Please note that the Chinese never claimed that Goguryeo was part of China, which is inaccurate. Usually, we think of it as a regime established by a frontier minority, a civilization that developed independently, much like the Manchu regime that later ruled China. It is only because the Tang Dynasty was more powerful and Goguryeo failed that these histories were incorporated into Chinese history.
Since modern Korea succeeded directly from Silla, which apparently never ruled Goguryeo nor was it ever ruled in its entirety by Goguryeo, we treat the two as two states. In fact, much of Goguryeo's historical heritage has been lost to history, and we only know that their ruling class used Chinese characters, the same as Silla, Baekje, and Japan, and that Goguryeo's dress and manners, political system, and military system were modeled on those of the Tang Dynasty but had their own national characteristics, which were somewhat different from those of Silla and Tang during the same period, and closer to those of Baekje and Japan. Genetically speaking, its survivors were integrated into China, Korea and Japan at the same time, so you can hardly define modern Korea as having a direct succession with it.

请注意,中国人从未声称高句丽是中国的一部分,这是不准确的。通常,我们认为它是一个由边疆少数民族建立的政权,是一个独立发展起来的文明,很像后来统治中国的满族政权。只是因为唐朝更强大,高句丽失败了,这些历史才被纳入中国历史。
由于现代朝鲜直接继承了新罗,而新罗显然从未统治过高句丽,也没有被高句丽完全统治过,所以我们把这两个国家当作两个国家。事实上,高句丽的大部分历史遗产已经失传,我们只知道他们的统治阶级使用汉字,与新罗、百济和日本一样,高句丽的服饰和礼仪、政治制度和军事制度都是仿照唐朝的,但有自己的民族特色,与同一时期的新罗和唐朝有些不同,更接近百济和日本。从基因上来说,它的幸存者同时融入了中国、朝鲜和日本,因此很难将现代朝鲜定义为与它直接继承。

Eul Ji
You said
“Since modern Korea succeeded directly from Silla,”
No intention to offend you, but that is only how Chinese want to view Korean history. The reality is different.
Actually, Korea succeeded both Silla and Goguryeo, Beakje. A lot of Goguryeo revival forces and its citizens voluntarily moved to silla, not tang.
Goryeo was founded by Goguryeo lineage and accepted numerous Balhae people.
We have the culture, blood and identity of goguryeo.
So it is true that Korea was also directly inherited by Goguryeo, just like Beakje and Silla.

你说“因为现代朝鲜是直接继承自新罗的”,
无意冒犯你,但这只是中国人想要看待朝鲜历史的方式。现实是不一样的。
其实朝鲜继承了新罗和高句丽、百济。很多高句丽复兴力量和其国民自愿移居新罗,而不是唐朝。
高丽是由高句丽血统建立的,并接纳了众多的渤海人。
我们有高句丽的文化、血统和身份。
所以朝鲜也是直接继承自高句丽,就像百济和新罗一样。

زىياجان تاشبۇلاق
Most of the citizens of Goguryeo moved to China, and no citizens of Goguryeo voluntarily moved to Silla.
Korea also did not directly inherit Goguryeo, and the Joseon Dynasty believed that Goguryeo had no relationship with them.
Judging from modern genetic tests, the ethnic group closest to the Goguryeo people is the Chinese.
Goguryeo may have some relationship with Japan in terms of language.

高句丽大部分国民都移居中国,没有一个高句丽国民自愿移居新罗。
韩国也没有直接继承高句丽,朝鲜王朝认为高句丽与他们没有关系。
从现代基因检测来看,与高句丽人最接近的民族是中国人。
高句丽在语言方面可能与日本有一些关系。

Tofu Dofu2
that’s like taking the Koreans that now live in present day Russia/Kazakstan that migrated there due to wars and shit… genetically testing them and stating that they are the closest ethnic group to the Koreans living in North or South Korea…
you realize that many of those people residing in now present day China (but used to be Goguryeo) either moved? hence why there can be a discrepancy for calling them Chinese?

这就像把现在生活在俄罗斯/哈萨克斯坦的朝鲜人当作移民,他们因为战争等原因而移民到那里....对他们进行基因测试,并声称他们是与生活在朝鲜或韩国的朝鲜人最接近的民族...
你知道吗,现在生活在中国的许多民族(以前高句丽人)都已经迁走了?那么为什么称他们为中国人会有分歧呢?

Kevin Kim
I would agree that Confucian culture likely played a major role in limiting Joseon’s military preparedness. But, overall I would say it goes beyond just the military. Confucian culture was applied in such a strict manner that also made adaptability and proper governance difficult. Previous Korean dynasties had kings that would be more actively engaged with their people and in times of war, lead armies. By the time of King Seonjo and the Imjin War (Japanese invasion of Joseon), the king would have no actual military experience to conduct a war properly and no confidence in their decision making ability to make appropriate judgments (This is why Yi Soon Shin was tortured when he should have been honored for saving the kingdom). Joseon also failed to modernize in the late 1800s which allowed a second Japanese encroachment which ultimately led to the annexation of Korea in 1910.

我同意儒家文化可能在限制朝鲜的军事准备方面发挥了重要作用。但总的来说,我认为这不仅仅局限于军事。儒家文化被严格地应用,这也使得适应性和适当的治理变得困难。以前的朝鲜王朝的国王会更积极地与人民打交道,在战争时期,他们会带领军队。到了宣祖和壬辰战争(日本入侵朝鲜)时期,国王没有实际的军事经验来正确指挥战争,也没有信心做出适当的判断(这就是为什么李舜臣本应因拯救王国而受到尊敬,却遭到折磨)。朝鲜在 19 世纪后期也未能实现现代化,导致日本第二次入侵,最终导致朝鲜在 1910 年被吞并。

Goodi Shang
Koguryo was destroyed by the Tang Dynasty. In order to prevent Koguryo from growing again, the Tang Dynasty moved Koguryo to other places.
Are you sure you are a descendant of Koguryo? Your ancestors should be xinluo and Baiji. Koguryo is the enemy of Silla. Are you sure you want to worship your ancestors' enemies now?
Don't kneel down in front of the enemy and shout their ancestors because Koguryo is strong.

高句丽是被唐朝灭亡的,为了防止高句丽再次发展壮大,唐朝把高句丽人迁移到了其他地方。
你确定你是高句丽的后代吗?你的祖先应该是新罗和百济。高句丽是新罗的敌人,你确定现在要祭拜你祖先的敌人吗?
不要因为高句丽强大,就跪在敌人面前高呼他们是祖先。

Otto Appocalyse
The absurdity of South Koreans' enthusiasm for describing Goguryeo as their ancestors is as ridiculous as Charlemagne's ancestor of the Germans. You can't make an ancestor of a country that is not born in present-day South Korea, where most of the country is not in South Korea, and whose scxt is completely different from that of South Korea.
The only relationship between your ancestors and Goguryeo is that Goguryeo would periodically go south to plunder you as slaves and export them to the Central Plains Dynasty, and the "Silla Handmaiden" was a very sought-after servant commodity since the Han Dynasty.

韩国人热衷于把高句丽人说成是自己的祖先,其荒谬程度就如同查理曼大帝把德国人当成祖先一样可笑。你不可能造出一个不诞生在现今韩国的国家的祖先,这个国家的大部分领土都不在韩国,文字也和韩国完全不同。
你的祖先和高句丽唯一的关系,就是高句丽会定期南下掠夺你们当奴隶,输出到中原王朝,而“新罗婢女”自汉代以来就是非常抢手的奴仆商品。

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Raymond Chow

认贼作父,regard the enemy as kith and kin. Funny because the modern Koreans are descendants of the three countries in the Korean Peninsula on this map !!! The Tang Chinese defeated the Goguryeo, and help the Silla establish their country which is the predecessor of Korea. And hundreds of thousands of Goguryeo people were relocated to the China Central Plains region.
认贼作父,视敌人为亲朋好友。可笑的是,现代的韩国人正是这幅地图上朝鲜半岛三国的后裔!!! 唐朝打败了高句丽,帮助新罗建立了他们的国家,也就是朝鲜的前身。而数十万高句丽人被迁移到中国中原地区。
Chen Zhigong (陳治功)

Goguryeo was not a Korean state, Silla was.

高句丽不是朝鲜古代的一个国家,新罗才是。

Ah Lîm
If Goguryeo was not a Korean state, then neither is Baekjae. Baekjae was founded by the descendants of Goguryeo.

如果高句丽不是韩国的一个国家,那么百济也不是。百济是由高句丽的后裔建立的。

Daniel Hongmyung Jheon
*Correction… Balhae was.
However the argument regarding whether Goguryeo or Balhae was Chinese or Korean is undeniable in its classification. And that is Korean. This is due to the simple fact that genetically and linguistically, Goguryeo could be classified as a Proto-Korean state. Moreover, the historiography of Goguryeo was claimed by Koreans more than a thousand years before irredentist nationalist Chinese began their propaganda movements to claim Goguryeo as Han Chinese (Northeast Project).

*更正… 是渤海国。
然而,关于高句丽或渤海国是古代中国还是朝鲜历史的一部分的争论在其分类上是无可否认的。那就是朝鲜。这是因为一个简单的事实,即从遗传和语言上讲,高句丽可以归类为原始朝鲜国家。此外,早在民族统一主义的中国开始宣传运动声称高句丽人是汉族(东北计划)之前一千多年,韩国人就声称拥有高句丽的史学。

Zayne Chu

If Goguryeo is considered a Korean state, then by the same logic, Joseon should be considered a Chinese regime. After all, Gija Joseon(箕子朝鲜) was founded by the remnants of the Shang Dynasty, and Wiman Joseon(卫满朝鲜), the original regime on the Korean Peninsula with a credible historical record, was founded by Yan(燕国) generals during the Han Dynasty.

Is it possible that the culture of Goguryeo, which is also very similar to Japanese culture, is also a part of Japanese culture?
As we all know, modern Korea inherited from Silla, which never ruled over Goguryeo, and Goguryeo never had complete control over Silla, and the relationship between the two was close to that of xiongnu and the Han Dynasty, the invader and the invaded. If Silla had not turned to the Tang Dynasty and been destroyed by Goguryeo, and if Goguryeo culture had continued to this day, we could certainly be sure that Goguryeo was the Joseon regime, but it clearly was not. Just as if the Manchus had not successfully ruled China and Korea and still exist today, you would easily understand that China, the Manchus, and Korea are different countries.

如果把高句丽看作是朝鲜的一个国家,那么按照同样的逻辑,朝鲜应该算作一个中国政权,毕竟箕子朝鲜是商朝残余势力建立的,而朝鲜半岛上最早有史料记载的政权卫满朝鲜是汉朝的燕国将军建立的。
与日本文化极为相似的高句丽文化,会不会也是日本文化的一部分呢?
众所周知,现代朝鲜继承自新罗,而新罗从未统治过高句丽,高句丽也从未完全控制过新罗,两者的关系类似于匈奴与汉朝,侵略者与被侵略者。如果新罗没有投奔唐朝并被高句丽所灭亡,高句丽文化一直延续至今,我们当然可以肯定高句丽是朝鲜政权,但显然不是。就如同满族没有成功统治中国和朝鲜并且至今还存在一样,你会很容易地理解,中国、满清和朝鲜是不同的国家。
In terms of writing, the written language of the ruling class in Goguryeo uses Chinese characters, which is consistent with Baekje, Silla and Japan, while the spoken language is unverifiable due to a serious lack of evidence for it. Culturally, Goguryeo inherited many of the characteristics of the Chinese dynasty, as it originated from Goguryeo County in Xuantu County(玄菟郡高句丽县) during the Han Dynasty. Genetically speaking, after Goguryeo was destroyed, its remnants flowed to China, Korea and Japan at the same time, and I do not understand why only Korea is regarded as the successor of Goguryeo. Just because its name is pronounced close to Goryeo?
Why can't we face up to the fact that this was a civilization that developed independently? There are even Korean scholars who claim that the Njinjin(女真) and the Koreans are of the same origin, so the Manchu were also a Korean regime, what do you think about this?
从文字上看,高句丽统治阶层的书面语采用汉字,与百济、新罗、日本等国一致,而口语则因严重缺乏证据而无法考证。从文化上看,高句丽继承了中国王朝的很多特征,源于汉代玄菟郡高句丽县。从遗传上看,高句丽灭亡后,其残余同时流向中国、朝鲜和日本,我不明白为什么只把朝鲜视为高句丽的继承者。就因为它的名字读音接近高丽?
为什么我们不能正视这是一个独立发展起来的文明?甚至有韩国学者声称,女真和朝鲜人是同源的,满清也是朝鲜的一个政权,您对此怎么看?

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