美国一直有问题吗?还是过去更好?(下)
2024-10-02 辽阔天空 4434
正文翻译
Has the United States always had problems or was it better in the past?

美国一直有问题吗?还是过去更好?

评论翻译
Chris Thomas
Better for whom?
Most of the “back in the day” stuff you see today idolizes the 1950s and 1960s. These were, unquestionably, America’s “golden age.” Any long view of history will tell you that golden ages happen for countries or regions or cultures from time-to-time but that they don’t last. The prosperity of the American golden age didn’t fall equally an all Americans and while the 50s and 60s might have been a simpler time, they weren’t prosperous BECAUSE of that simplicity.
Let’s unpack what made the 1950s and 1960s such a great time for the United States and what we mean when we say that.

对谁更有利?
如今,当我们回顾过去,往往会理想化1950年代和1960年代。无疑,那被视为美国的“黄金时代”。但纵观历史,任何国家、地区或文化的黄金时代都是短暂的。美国黄金时代的繁荣并不是平等地惠及所有美国人,尽管50年代和60年代可能是一个简单的时代,但这种简单并不是繁荣的原因。
让我们深入探讨是什么让1950年代和1960年代成为美国的辉煌时期,以及当我们说这个的时候到底意味着什么。

What Made The American Golden Age
When we think about the golden age of the 50s and 60s, certain ideas come to mind. Let’s take this meme which I pulled off a right-wing Facebook account for example:
Now, ignoring grandpa who presumably has some stories from World War 1, there are some insights here. Yes, home ownership was within easy reach for a lot of Americans and families could live comfortably on a single income.
All across 1950s and 1960s America, small towns clustered around local industries. Those factories paid good wages for fundamentally unskilled labor. People who worked there could support their families, even if they didn’t have a high school degree. And landing that job wasn’t unusual; those factories were always hiring.

美国黄金时代的背后
当我们回顾50年代和60年代的黄金时代时,一些画面会浮现在脑海中。比如,我们可以从一些右翼Facebook账号上看到这样的梗:
忽略掉可能经历过一战的祖父辈的故事,这里其实有一些深刻的见解。的确,许多美国人能够轻松拥有自己的住房,家庭可以靠一份收入过上舒适的生活。
在1950年代和1960年代的美国,小镇通常围绕着当地的工业而建。那些工厂为基本没有技能的工人支付了不错的工资。哪怕他们没有高中文凭,在那里工作的人可以养活家庭。而且,找到这样的工作并不难;那些工厂总是在招聘。

But… why was that the case?
Well, for starters, from 1939 to 1945 the focus of the industrial might of the entire world was on converting European and Asian cities into burning rubble. If you wanted to make ANYTHING in the post-war world you had no choice but to do it in the United States. This advantage really can’t be overstated. There was a whole world that needed rebuilding and the only place that could make the tools, materials, and supplies it needed was the United States… and that meant that the factories and ports and mines doing all that work had no choice but to hire American workers.
So the golden age of the American middle class was also the golden age of the American labor movement. Fully one-third of American jobs in the 1950s were unxized. Those unxs fought for worker rights including generous pay and benefits.

但……为什么会这样呢?
首先,从1939年到1945年,全世界的工业重心都集中在将欧洲和亚洲的城市变为废墟。如果你想在战后的世界制造任何东西,你只能在美国制造。这个优势怎么强调都不为过。战后的世界需要重建,而唯一能生产所需工具、材料和物资的地方就是美国……这意味着那些工厂、港口和矿山必须雇佣美国工人。
因此,美国中产阶级的黄金时代也是美国劳工运动的黄金时代。1950年代,三分之一的美国工作都是工会化的。这些工会为工人争取了包括高薪和福利在内的权益。

Unequal Prosperity
Of course, this prosperity didn’t fall equally on everyone. The 1950s and 1960s was also a time in which participation in the American workforce was very limited. Racism and Sexism kept black people and women either out of the workforce or in low paying jobs. If you were a white man, this worked out very well for you indeed.
Women’s exclusion from the workforce meant that many women were economically dependent on their husbands for their and their kids’ survival. This power imbalance was behind much of the “domestic tranquility” that we recollect from the 50s and 60s. With divorce requiring demonstration of “fault” and with women economically handicapped, getting out of a broken or even abusive marriage was extremely difficult.

不平等的繁荣
当然,这种繁荣并没有平等地惠及每个人。1950年代和1960年代也是美国劳动力参与度非常有限的时期。种族主义和性别歧视使黑人和女性要么被排除在劳动力市场之外,要么只能从事低薪工作。如果你是白人男性,这个时代对你来说确实很好。
女性的劳动力市场参与度低意味着许多女性在经济上依赖她们的丈夫。这种权力失衡是50年代和60年代我们所回忆的“家庭安宁”背后的原因之一。由于离婚需要证明“过错”,女性在经济上处于不利地位,因此摆脱一个破碎的或甚至是虐待的婚姻极其困难。

Likewise, the exclusion of black people from the work force acted to benefit white people and especially white men. If you were white, the fact that you didn’t need to compete against black people for those plum factory jobs meant higher wages and better job security for you. If you were black, however, it meant that your earnings were limited and you were at the mercy of your white employers.
So… I think the answer to your question is that the past probably was a better time for white, male America. But that “better” was built upon the devastation of a global war, the marginalization of the other sex, and the systemic oppression of an entire race of people.
On balance, probably not a better or simpler time for everyone.

同样,黑人被排除在劳动力市场之外,这也让白人,特别是白人男性受益。如果你是白人,你不需要和黑人竞争那些高薪的工厂工作,这意味着你的工资更高,工作更稳定。但如果你是黑人,这意味着你的收入有限,你只能任由你的白人雇主摆布。
所以……我认为,对于美国白人男性来说,过去可能是一个更好的时代。但那个“更好”是建立在全球战争的破坏、对另一性别的边缘化和对某个整个种族的系统性压迫之上的。
总的来说,对每个人来说,那可能并不是一个更好或更简单的时代。

Will I Am
Also, the belief that the 50’s were a golden age only works if you accept that most middle class people at the time had a lifestyle that we would today consider to be lower class or poor.
No air conditioning, probably no washer or dryer, one family car (if any), much smaller houses (think family of 5 or 6 living in a 800 square foot house), very little travel, if living outside a major city like NYC - no culture, very little disposable income for most, mother of the house handmakes your clothing (which is only nice if she’s really good at it), etc.

认为1950年代是“黄金时代”的观点,前提是要承认当时大多数中产阶级的生活方式在今天看来是下层或贫困的。
没有空调,可能没有洗衣机或烘干机,家庭通常只有一辆车(如果有的话),房子小得多(想象一下一个五口或六口之家住在800平方英尺的房子里),几乎没有旅行。如果住在像纽约这样的城市之外,几乎没有文化,大多数人几乎没有可支配收入,母亲亲手缝制衣物(如果她真的很擅长,那就太好了)等等。

Shaun Hastings
The problem with this argument is that it doesn't account for the fact that technology gets cheaper over time.
When TVs and washing machines first came on to the market they were luxury goods, but over time the process of manufacturing them became more efficient and less labour intensive which led to them becoming commonplace. In 1954 you were lucky if you could even afford to rent a TV, in 2024 it's something you might not even bother taking with you when you move.
The idea that it's harder to get by on one income today due to modern life requiring technology is false. Pretty much every household amenity has become exponentially cheaper over the last few decades. The notable exception being the house itself, which combined with stagnating wages is the real reason for the shift.

这个论点的问题在于,它没有考虑到技术随着时间的推移而变得更便宜的事实。
当电视和洗衣机首次上市时,它们是奢侈品,但随着时间的推移,制造过程变得更有效率,劳动强度减轻,导致它们变得普及。在1954年,如果你能租到一台电视,那真是幸运;而在2024年,你甚至可能觉得搬家时不必带上它。
由于现代生活对科技的要求,如今单靠一份收入难以维持生活的想法是错误的。过去几十年里,几乎每种家庭设施的价格都大幅下降。唯一的显著例外是房子本身,加上工资停滞,这才是真正导致这种变化的原因。

Will I Am
Not sure how this is a problem with my argument. If washing machines are cheaper in 2024 than they were in 1954, that is just more evidence that it is better to be alive in 2024.

我不明白这与我的论点有什么关系。如果2024年的洗衣机比1954年的便宜,那只是更能证明活在2024年更好。

Fredric Henning
This was also the era when the rich actually paid taxes — and that goes for corporations, too. So, the poor and the middle class did not have to carry the whole fuckin’ load.

这也是富人真正缴税的时代——企业也是如此。所以,穷人和中产阶级不必独自承担全部负担。

Skye Santiago
the poor pay nothing. The top 10% earners pay 49.5% of the income tax collected.
Corporations had higher taxes, and you could also expense anything, even strippers.

穷人什么都不交。收入最高的10%的人缴纳49.5%的所得税。
企业税率更高,而且你可以报销任何东西,甚至是报销脱衣舞女的费用。

John Manning
Check your facts. What % of tax is paid by the top 10%? The top 20%? The bottom 50%?
Not saying life’s a bowl of cherries for the poor and middle class, but you are utterly and completely wrong about who’s paying taxes.

检查你的数据。收入最高的10%和20%的人群各缴纳多少税?底层50%的人又缴纳多少?
并不是说穷人和中产阶级的生活多么美好,但你对谁在缴纳税收的理解完全错误。

Ken Zee
What percentage of income are they paying?

他们缴纳的收入百分比是多少?

Danny Taborda
What's a distinctly American problem?
Just my opinion, but I think the continued criminality surrounding paying for sex (prostitution) is, by this point, a uniquely American issue. And by American I mean in the U.S.A. Paying for sex stopped being a legal issue in Europe and Latin America long ago. The institution of putting a man through legal hell just because paid a woman to have sex with him is now solely an American problem.

美国面临一个独特的问题是什么?
在我看来,为性交易付费(即卖淫)的持续犯罪行为,到了现在,已经成为一个典型的美国问题。我所说的“美国”,特指美利坚合众国。相比之下,在欧洲和拉丁美洲,为性交易付费早已不再是法律问题。而在美国,仅仅因为一个男人花钱与女人发生性关系,就让他遭受法律的严惩,这种现象已经成为美国独有的问题。

Anthony Ibbott
What’s a uniquely American problem?
Too many choices.
My wife sends me shopping for hair dye or nail polish or shampoo. And I think, OK, I can handle that. I’ll type a list into my note pad on my phone. No problem.
So I get to the supermarket, pull out my phone and call her on FaceTime and point to each of 5 thousand similar products and ask: This one? Or this? How about this? No, they don’t have what I got last time, or maybe they do but they moved it or it’s in a new bottle now. Go back to the left? Up a shelf? This looks familiar, but it’s unscented and doesn’t have the applicator cap. Is that close enough?
Ok, I’ll get that.
Double tap, dexe. That’s one off the list.

美国独有的问题是什么?
选择过多。
我太太让我去商店买染发剂、指甲油或洗发水。我信心满满地想,没问题,我能搞定。于是,我就在手机的记事本上列了个清单。
然而,当我走进超市,拿出手机,通过FaceTime跟她视频通话,指着货架上成千上万种相似的产品逐一询问:这个吗?还是这个?这个怎么样?都不行,他们没有上次我买的那个,或者可能还有,但位置换了,或者现在换了新包装。要我再往左边找找?看看货架上面?这个看起来差不多,但它是无香型的,还没有配喷嘴盖。这样算不算可以?
行,就买这个了。
双击,删除。清单上又完成了一项。

Tim Elliot, Valuable Antique
What are Americans biggest problems?
Scams by medical insurance companies, where they demand premiums but weasel out of providing cover.
Result: bankruptcy for the person who falls ill.
2. As a result of item 1, 4 years less life expectancy

美国人面临的最大问题是什么?
医疗保险公司的欺诈行为,他们收取高额保费,却在理赔时找各种借口推脱责任。 结果:患病者因此而破产。
由于上述问题,美国人的预期寿命减少了四年。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Josh Breshears
What are Americans biggest problems?
In regards to the average citizen?
Under funded schooling and a huge decline in our educational system. Idiot non-Americans for some reason think this is something that the average American wants. Its not. Most think its a huge problem.

对于普通美国人来说,他们面临的最大问题是什么?
学校教育资金严重不足,我们教育体系的严重衰退。一些非美国人可能误以为这是普通美国人所希望的,但实际上并不是。大多数人都认为这是一个亟待解决的重大问题。

Lack of separation between political and corporate entities. Seriously America is not and has not been a true democracy for a very long time. That argument could have been legitimately made at one point, but this is America’s single largest problem, and the reason behind our piss poor medical care system, where decent and necessary care costs astronomical prices, its the reason the education system is underfunded, its the reason why when America’s market crashed and millions of Americans were thrown out of their homes, only two people went down for it. Its also the reason why 90% of the countries wealth is owned by 10% of its population, leaving 90% of the population to live off of just 10%. Its the reason why the vaping industry is being aggressively attacked so that tobacco/pharmaceutical companies can make more money, clearly showing the public that general health is not as important as state money, and those are just a couple examples.

政治与企业之间缺乏明确的界限。严肃地说,美国早已不再是真正意义上的民主国家。这种观点在某个时期或许还站得住脚,但现在,这是美国面临的最大问题。它是我们医疗保健体系糟糕透顶的根源,体面的、必要的医疗服务价格高得离谱;它也是教育系统资金不足的原因。在美国市场崩溃、无数美国人失去家园时,只有极少数人受到惩罚。它还是导致90%的国家财富集中在10%人口手中的原因,而剩下的90%的人口只能共享剩余的10%财富。此外,电子烟行业受到的猛烈抨击,不过是因为烟草和制药公司想赚取更多利润,这明显表明公共健康的重要性不及国家财富,这些只是众多例子中的几个。

Collapsing bridges, crumbling roads, new industries and companies being shut down which could greatly aid the American economy and new job growth, simply so that the current powers-that-be can retain their wealth rather than allow it to slip away to more modern and capable companies.

桥梁崩塌,道路坑洼,那些本可以极大促进美国经济和就业增长的新兴产业和公司被迫停摆,这一切只是为了让当前的权贵们能够保住自己的财富,而不是让财富流向更具现代化和竞争力的企业。

Paul Noel
What’s a uniquely American problem?
Every nation has a unique set of people. The set the USA has the most unusual population in the world. These people live in a land that is so diverse in climates natural resources and landforms. Governing such a nation in an orderly and reasonable way requires balancing and compromising situations simply not analogous to other nations. Even the very concept that the USA is one nation is wrong. The USA is actually 50 nations with unique people, history, resources and environment. This makes managing affairs in the USA very complex.

美国所面临的一个独特问题是什么?
每个国家都有其独特的人民,而美国拥有世界上最与众不同的人口。这个国家的气候、自然资源和地形极为多样,以有序合理的方式治理这样一个多元化的国家,需要解决一些其他国家从未遇到的平衡和妥协问题。实际上,将美国视为一个统一的国家是错误的;美国更像是由50个有着各自独特人民、历史、资源和环境的独立国家组成的联合体。这使得美国的国家治理变得极其复杂。

The situation is amazing that it works at all. The success of the USA in history and the world is testimony to the founders who constructed a constitution that was based not upon any physical or technical reality but rather on human nature. The amazing fact is that they fitted so well to the people and conditions that it has successfully handled a myriad of stresses over 200 years.

令人惊讶的是,美国竟然能够正常运作。美国历史上的成功和对世界的贡献,证明了建国者们基于人性而非物理或技术现实制定的宪法是多么明智。这个宪法非常适合美国人民和国情,在过去200多年里成功地应对了各种压力。

The success of the USA has produced a major problem not well understood by people around the world. It is incumbent upon a people who seeks to rule themselves to rule over peoples who will not rule themselves. This has caused a people whose only desire on earth, is to be left alone and to ignore the rest of the world, to have to manage so many affairs on earth involving both military and civilian issues. This burden places great stresses on the USA. This is because it is completely outside of our desires and character to do so.

美国的成功带来了一个世界其他国家人民不太理解的问题。美国人民渴望自我管理,但同时也不得不去管理那些不愿自我管理的人群。这导致了一个本质上只希望被世界放任不管、忽视其他国家的民族,不得不处理许多涉及全球的军事和民事事务。这种负担给美国带来了巨大的压力,因为这完全不符合美国人民的性格和愿望。

We in the USA manage so many issues in and for the world that a tiny incomplete listing will give a hint as to the diversity of problems caused by this situation.
The USA manages everything from Rights of Navigation, Prevention of Piracy to regulation of telecommunications frequencies, to managing health and safety issues such as vaccinations and the manufacture standards for drugs. It manages things involving Fish and Game. This manages Weather Forecasting and monitors Earthquakes and Volcanoes. It manages Farm processes, food purity and so much more.

我们美国在全球范围内处理着形形色色的问题,以下是一个简短且不完全的列表,从中你可以看出这种情况引发的问题的多样性:
美国负责管理包括航行权、打击海盗行为、电信频率规范在内的诸多事务,同时也涉及健康与安全问题,比如疫苗接种和药品生产标准。此外,还涉及鱼类和野生动物的管理。美国还负责天气预报、监测地震和火山活动。在农业流程、食品纯净度等方面也有所涉及,还有更多其他事务。

原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


The project of bringing human beings around the world who are in all degrees of civilized and uncivilized status and providing for their safety, food supply, medicine and defense security are things completely out of our desire and character as Americans is pressed upon us by the disorganized and awful condition of the rest of the world. You asked a uniquely American problem you got the biggest we face.

将全球各地不同文明程度的人民聚集起来,并为他们提供安全保障、食物、药品和国防安全,这与我们美国人的期望和性格背道而驰。这一重担是由于世界其他地区的混乱和恶劣状况而强加给我们的。你询问了美国所面临的一个独特问题,而这就是我们所面临的最大挑战。

You may rest assured that while this is expressed by many parties in the USA in so many different ways, this is a universally held opinion that Americans simply do not want to mess with the rest of the world. We have our own life to live and we would rather be about living it than messing with (the rest of the world) you.

你可以确信,无论美国内部有多少不同的声音以何种方式表达,都有一个普遍的共识:美国人根本不想搅和到世界其他地区的事务中。我们更愿意专注于自己的生活,而不是去干涉你们其他国家的事情。

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