许多亚洲国家,如中国俄罗斯日本当初的起点都和印度差不多,为什么只有印度还是那么穷?
2024-10-30 兰陵笑笑生 10657
正文翻译
Why is India still poor?

印度为何依然贫穷?

Many Asian countries like Russia, China and Japan started on same footing as India but are not poor as India.Where did India go wrong?

许多亚洲国家,如俄罗斯、中国和日本,都是在与印度相同的基础上起步的,但却不像印度那样贫穷。印度到底错在哪里?




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评论翻译
peterdparker
Nop. Russia, , and Japan did not start out at the same footing as India. Russia and Japan both were economic/military superpower. Which means they did not skip industrial revolution. They had deeply rooted technology and global trade prowess. This means even if there was ground zero, they can easily bounce back on the foots of trained skilled labours and post WW2 US economic ties.
China and India are some what comparable. What favoraed china was No political unrests and single party which meant things went smoothly and they can do whatever they want and take any economic decision they desire. On the other hand India was too much diverse and even today none of the people are on the same page. Econlmic plans are changed every 5 years.
One thing China did smartly was making the country manufacturing hub. US saw Russia as its biggest enemy thus economic ties with China was crucial and the did some dirty work for USA as well. On the other hand India was in Russian bloc and Russia did not invest in technological development as US did in china.
Due to unskilled labour, skipping industrial revolution India had no solid ground on which techonological development can happen. Post independence India was not peacefull as we participated in many wars. Considering opposition to USA, their heavy sanctions made sure no technology from US/Europe can spread in this part of thr world. Even then we had huge potential to grow in the 90s where growth happened in China but our economic model was too impractical/outdated. We are making economic changes which China did like 40 years ago. We were just too slow to catch up. Even today, the development is relied on "quick fix" instead of sustainability. Poverty is being reduced for sure and more people are educated but class/caste/identity fights will forever drag India down.

不。俄罗斯、日本和印度的起点并不相同。俄罗斯和日本都是经济/军事超级大国。这意味着它们没有跳过工业革命。它们拥有根深蒂固的技术和全球贸易能力。这意味着,即使发生了重大损失,它们也能依靠训练有素的熟练劳动力和二战后美国的经济关系轻松反弹。
中国和印度有一定的可比性。中国的优势在于没有动乱和一d制,这意味着一切都很顺利,他们可以为所欲为,做出任何他们想要的经济决策。另一方面,印度的多元化程度太高,即使到了今天,人们的意见也不尽相同。经济计划每 5 年就会改变一次。
中国做得最聪明的一件事就是把国家打造成制造业中心。美国将俄罗斯视为最大的敌人,因此与中国的经济联系至关重要,中国也为美国干了一些脏活累活。另一方面,印度属于俄罗斯集团,俄罗斯没有像美国对中国那样投资于技术发展。
由于劳动力缺乏技术含量,印度跳过了工业革命,没有坚实的技术发展基础。独立后的印度并不太平,因为我们参加了许多战争。考虑到反对美国,他们的严厉制裁确保了美国/欧洲的技术无法在印度传播。即便如此,我们在上世纪 90 年代仍有巨大的发展潜力,当时中国也实现了增长,但我们的经济模式过于不切实际/过时。我们正在进行经济变革,而中国在 40 年前就已经这样做了。我们追赶得太慢了。即使在今天,发展依靠的也是“速效”,而不是可持续性。贫困确实在减少,受教育的人也越来越多,但阶级/种姓/身份之争将永远拖累印度。

Aromatic_Dark349
because 50% work in agriculture sector. and its not profitable. it is highly subsidized that how those farmers make a living.

因为有 50% 的人在依靠农业生活,而且农业无利可图。这些农民靠高额补贴为生。

No_Speech_5645
Why don’t you try it? Or you can’t afford the land and don’t want to work hard?

你为什么不试一下?还是说你买不起土地,不想努力工作?

Ryujiro1
Can't afford the land. Hard work toh IT sector aur dusre businesses me bhi hota hai.

买不起地。IT行业和其他行业的工作也很辛苦。

Historical_monk26
Bcoz Bimarus keep on breeding like rats and pigs

因为北方四邦像老鼠和猪一样继续繁殖

Gullible_Airport_650
Even exclude bimarus other states is not becoming any better

即使把北方四邦摘出去,其他邦也没有变得更好啊

MonsterKiller112
A lot of states have reached middle income status by GDP per capita while BIMARU states are still lower than sub Saharan Africa.

许多邦的人均GDP已达到中等收入水平,而北方四邦的人均收入仍低于撒哈拉以南非洲地区。

boss5667
Like u/peterdparker said China is the most comparable example. However, what is done cannot be undone.
What can be done to fix this?
Improve access to education and healthcare and ensure its quality. A well educated population can create good pool from which a few will rise to build an ecosystem of innovation.
Spending on research and development, especially in the Universities. India is so underfunded in this space. Don’t think there is much being spend by the government or private sector. You might hear about xyz studies or new innovation being done by foreign universities but pretty sure you rarely hear the same about Indian universities.
Incentivise people to pay taxes. Middle class working people who pay TDS would not consider pay it if our income was not trackable. There is literally no incentive for paying taxes in India. There is no income security if you suddenly become unemployed. Medical benefits offered free of charge are extremely generic and cannot cover serious illnesses and come with a lot of terms and conditions. Children’s education is a gigantic cost if you want to ensure good quality. If government starts providing these basic things to tax payers, there will be an immediate uptick in tax collection and government will not need to put taxes on the very air we breathe.
Again just my opinion.

正如 u/peterdparker 所说,中国是最有可比性的例子。然而,已经发生的事是无法挽回的。
怎样才能解决这个问题呢?
1. 改善教育和医疗服务,并确保其质量。受过良好教育的人口可以创造良好的人才储备,少数人将从中脱颖而出,建立创新生态系统。
2. 加大研发投入,尤其是大学的研发投入。印度在这方面的资金严重不足。不要以为政府或私营部门会投入很多资金。你可能会听说外国大学正在进行 xyz 研究或新的创新,但可以肯定的是,你很少听说印度人的大学也在进行同样的研究或创新。
3. 激励人们纳税。如果我们的收入无法追踪,缴纳 TDS 的中产阶级上班族就不会考虑纳税。在印度,根本没有鼓励纳税的措施。如果突然失业,没有收入保障。免费提供的医疗福利非常普通,不能涵盖重病,而且附带很多条款和条件。如果要确保教育质量,儿童教育是一笔巨大的开支。如果政府开始为纳税人提供这些基本服务,税收就会立即增加,政府也就不需要对我们呼吸的空气征税了。
再次强调,这只是我的观点。

AT_2612
Great answer, if I had to add one more thing it would be to systematically target the problem of malnutrition and stunted growth in kids from lower economic classes. The products of this are citizens that are low on IQ and can't do much, plus it perpetuates the vicious cycle of poverty and other problems.

回答得很好,如果还要补充一点的话,那就是要系统地解决经济地位较低阶层的孩子营养不良和发育迟缓的问题。否则结果就是公民智商低下,无法做很多事情,而且还会使贫困和其他问题的恶性循环持续下去。

One-Huckleberry-6966
"Gyani log jayada hain desh mein". People think themselves no less than Socrates spl. in the rural areas.
These people are most vulnerable to propaganda by certain parties n will do anything to hamper "development n changes". This includes anything from blocking highways to voting enmass against parties/individuals.
Once the narrative is set, the bureaucracy and politicians stick to status quo, not wanting to take risks given self induced elections/transfer complications. This in return gives rise to caste politicians/Bahubalis who play the Robin hood card well, n leech off the system further.
This is how it plays out, spl. in the eastern states, where poverty is the highest. Hopefully we'll see better days in future.

“我已经什么都懂了”。在农村地区,人们认为自己并不比苏格拉底逊色。
这些人最容易受到某些政党宣传的影响,他们会不惜一切代价阻碍“发展与变革”。这包括从封锁高速公路到集体投票反对党派/个人等一切行为。
一旦确定了某种叙事,官僚机构和政客们就会坚持现状,不愿在自我诱导的选举/转移复杂化的情况下冒险。这反过来又催生了种姓政客/巴霍巴利王,他们善于打罗宾汉牌,进一步从体制中榨取利益。
在贫困率最高的东部各邦,情况就是这样。希望我们今后会看到更好的日子。

Shady_bystander0101
No they did not, most other people have mentioned the reasons for Russia and Japan. But China's prosperity is very recent as well. They became the manufacturing hub of the world because of having a homogenized, lower class population at the right time and having lots of foreign investment 4-5 decades ago. That made their per capita GDP shoot up over a decent period of time now, but their demographic reality and middle income trap is catching up with them. Our PPP is increasing at a steady pace as well, but we are about 2 decades away from China due to our late start from liberalization, from the time we basically went bankrupt.

不,他们没有,其他大多数人都提到了俄罗斯和日本的原因。但中国的繁荣也是最近才出现的。他们之所以能成为世界制造业中心,是因为在四五十年前,他们在正确的时间拥有了同质化的下层人口,并获得了大量外国投资。这使得他们的人均 GDP 在相当长的一段时间内迅速增长,但他们的人口现实和中等收入陷阱正在赶上他们。我们的购买力平价也在稳步增长,但由于我们的自由化起步较晚,从我们基本破产时算起,我们离中国还有大约 20 年的差距。

Jinx_Saga
Till the 1990s it was okay.. after that we got into religion issues, reservations, this that.. and for a brief amount of time people prioritised all this shitty stuff which doesn't have any relation with actual development .
Corruption at multiple levels , that led to brain drain.
And now we have this kind of political system where govts are focusing on 'how their opposition is worse than them ' rather than 'what we can do better'
And it's not about the government alone. We as citizens mostly care about our needs and demands first. Bhaad me jaaye desh ki samasya wala attitude he aadha population ka.

直到1990年代,这一切还算可以……之后我们开始陷入宗教问题、预留名额等等,短暂的时间里,人们优先考虑这些与实际发展无关的糟糕事情。
多层次的腐败导致了人才流失。
而现在我们又有了这种政府关注的是“他们的对手比他们更糟糕”,而不是“我们能做得更好”的政治体制。这不仅仅是政府的问题。作为公民,我们大多数人首先关心的是自己的需求和要求。半数人口都有“国家的问题与我无关”的态度。

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Son_Chidi
India is one of the richest country of the world.
Indians are poor because we are too many.

印度是世界上最富有的国家之一。
印度人很穷,因为我们人太多了。

Terrible-Finding7937
China vs india
Both countries start from same line
India choosed Russia vs china choosed western countries
China got massive investments, technology transfer from western countries now become manufacturing hub of world
India got sanctions, internal conflicts, wars from neighbor countries and isolated from world
What present India is doing is China did 30 years back
Choosing Russia in history is biggest mistake we still facing that heat

中国对比印度
两国的出发点相同
印度选择了俄罗斯,而中国选择了西方国家
中国从西方国家获得大量投资和技术转让,现在已成为世界制造业中心
印度则受到制裁、内部冲突和邻国的战争,被世界孤立
现在的印度所做的,正是 30 年前的中国所做的
选择俄罗斯是历史上最大的错误,我们仍然面临着这个问题

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sxubxam69
Which year was it? Weren't we under colonial rule or are you talking after post independence?

你说的是哪一年?是殖民统治时期还是独立后?

HMMSheriOkay
Because we refuse to work 70 hours a week!

因为我们拒绝每周工作 70 小时!

Guilty-Pleasures_786
Because certain regions are continuously breeding and giving rise to more poor folks...

因为某些地区不断繁衍生息,产生了更多的穷人...

IloveLegs02
overpopulation plus socialist schemes

人口过剩加上社会主义计划

wineorwhine11
Religion

宗教

ManpreetDC
Lack of good governance (only a few like PM Manmohan Singh exist)
No one in government actually understands how good governance works.
Lack of the people's will to improve the nation.
Hatred accepted, and sometimes, explicitly promoted and acted upon by politicians.
Lack of social protection (No retirement savings through work).
Lack of good government schemes to secure people's assets / retirement.
Lack of senior care/programs (people ages 65+)
Lack of good health care for the average citizen
Education system relying heavily on rote memorization, not practical understanding of how things work.
Value of life per capita very low.
No idea how the world works, how the world functions with each other, how the world sees India. Only now India is beginning to understand how to navigate political affairs at an international level.

缺乏良好的治理(只有曼莫汉-辛格总理等少数人)
政府中没有人真正了解良好的治理是如何运作的。
人民缺乏改善国家的意愿。
政客们接受仇恨,有时甚至明确宣扬仇恨并付诸行动。
缺乏社会保障(没有通过工作储蓄退休)。
缺乏良好的政府计划来保障人民的资产/退休生活。
缺乏老年护理/计划(65 岁以上人群)
普通民众缺乏良好的医疗保健服务
教育系统严重依赖死记硬背,而不是切实了解事物是如何运作的。
人均生命价值非常低。
不知道世界是如何运转的,不知道世界是如何相互运作的,不知道世界是如何看待印度的。印度现在才开始了解如何处理国际政治事务。

Warm_Anywhere_1825
wait till i assume power hahahahah

等我掌权再说吧,哈哈哈哈
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Rough_Highway4178
India has a huge population of 1.5 Billion people. Out of this close to 80 crore are getting free food and are happily reproducing.
Another 10 crore are busy with stupid UPSC, railways, PCS and other government exams to ensure they continue to keep India poor by siphoning Tax collection and Government Allocation.
Another 10 crore are working towards becoming with Engineers, doing BA/MA and many other useless degrees to join the above population group.
Another 40 crore are still studying and confused about their gender.
Pending 10 crore are lifting the weight of all of above.
Other countries are doing well e.g. Russia, Europe and Japan due to lesser population and strong work ethics.

印度拥有 15 亿人口。其中近 8 亿人在免费获取食物,并快乐地繁衍后代。
另有 1 亿人忙于愚蠢的 UPSC、铁路、PCS 和其他政府考试,以确保他们继续通过抽取税收和政府拨款来维持印度的贫穷。
另有 1 亿人正在努力成为工程师,攻读学士/硕士学位和其他许多无用的学位,以加入上述人群。
另有 4 亿人仍在学习,对自己的性别感到困惑。
剩下的1亿人则承受着上述所有人的重担。
其他国家,如俄罗斯、欧洲和日本,由于人口较少和强烈的职业道德,发展势头良好。

street-warrior128
China's growth is completely artificial, japan licked America's ass and SK too. We were independent, and we wanted to look after our interests, we didn't want to be the puppet of America. And coming to Russia, remove it's oil, apart from it I do not think that it will sustain itself if not for the vast resources it was gifted.

中国的增长完全是吹起来的,日本和韩国靠舔美国的屁股。我们是独立的,我们想照顾自己的利益,我们不想成为美国的傀儡。说到俄罗斯,除去它的石油,如果不是因为它拥有大量的资源,我认为它根本无法维持自身的发展。

Medium-Ad5432
if china's growth is artificial they why are countries so afraid of this false economy.

如果中国的经济增长是人吹起来的,为什么各国如此害怕这种虚假的经济?

MonsterKiller112
China is the factory of the world. It's growth is completely genuine. Just visit Shanghai once. You will cry at the pathetic state of India.

中国是世界工厂。它的发展是完全真实的。只要去一次上海。你会为印度的悲惨状况而哭泣。

street-warrior128
Yea, by forcing it's labour to work hard hours and paying peanuts. Have you heard about what used to happen in foxcon factory?

是啊,通过强迫劳工长时间工作并支付花生米的工资。你听说过富士康工厂曾经发生的事情吗?

sxubxam69
Bro is just china hater not accepting the truth sometimes move outside the country.

Bro 只是仇视中国,不接受事实,有时去国外看看吧。
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You're so wrong. Fucking go everywhere in the world, most consumer items are made in china

你大错特错。世界上到处都是中国制造,大多数消费品都是中国制造。

Kitchen_Promise9820
less freebies, government needs to give more freebies.
//
On a serious note, russia china have a different kind of government and growth is faster and unidirectional.
Japan was never invaded.
India has always been the good guy/girl unfortunately.

免费赠品还是少了,政府需要提供更多的免费赠品。
认真地说,俄罗斯和中国的政府类型不同,而且增长更快、更单向。
日本从未遭受过入侵。
不幸的是,印度一直都是好男孩\\\\女孩类型。

Kacinroya
Post-WW2 American Allied Occupation of Japan happened.
Japan was completely wrecked after the war, and they recovered through foreign aid and capitalist economic policy.
The benefit Japan had was that they already had Industries before the war, but so did India.

二战后,美国盟军占领了日本。
日本在战后被彻底摧毁,通过外国援助和资本主义经济政策才得以恢复。
日本的优势在于战前已经拥有工业,但印度也是如此。

Kitchen_Promise9820
okay
but imagine India being invaded and looted from time to time for hundred of years vs Japan being occupied only for 7 years (1945 to 1952). Funny thing is we still follow ancient traditions (saying in a good way) even though invaders came and went away.
Japan has sustainable businesses which are as old as 1000 years.
Like to like comparison is not right.
Also I don't believe India has poor people. It's a new land of opportunities if one is willing to work hard, he/she wont be poor for sure.

好吧
但想象一下,印度数百年来不时遭到侵略和掠夺,而日本只被占领了 7 年(1945 年至 1952 年)。有趣的是,即使侵略者来了又走了,我们仍然沿袭着古老的传统(说的是好的方面)。
日本拥有一些持续千年历史的产业。
点对点比较是不对的。
我也不相信印度有穷人。 如果一个人愿意努力工作,这里是一个新的机会之地,他/她肯定不会贫穷。

rvbeachguy
Because of low iq, this is caused by religion and cast system . They can be easily manipulated because of low IQ ask the British they ruled them for 400 years

因为智商低,这是宗教和等级制度造成的。因为智商低,他们很容易被操纵,问问统治了他们 400 年的英国人吧

EmiyaBoi
Defense industry is the driver for any country to become a military superpower, our defense industry is choking on the dick of our bureaucracy.

国防工业是任何国家成为军事超级大国的驱动力,而我们的国防工业却被官僚主义扼住了喉咙。

Fit-Repair-4556
Because the western intelligence agencies wanted us to be poor, so they keep putting people in power that will do their jobs instead of running the nation how it should be.
Currently they want us to stop China from becoming too powerful, so we need to take some of their exports away.

因为西方情报机构希望我们贫穷,所以他们不断让一些人上台,让他们从中作梗,而不是按照国家应该有的方式管理国家。
目前,他们希望我们阻止中国变得过于强大,所以我们需要夺走他们的一些出口产品。

scan_line110110
There is no innovation, no ambition, no industry. Some of it is due to government regulations over the year, some due to excessive bureaucracy and corruption, and some of it is due to our subservient mentality. From birth our parents force us to find a stable government job, or force us down medical/engineering paths. Even our education system advocates for rote learning over coming up with new ideas.

没有创新,没有雄心,没有产业。这其中有些是由于政府常年的监管,有些是由于过度的官僚主义和腐败,还有些是由于我们的顺从心态。从一出生,我们的父母就强迫我们找一份稳定的政府工作,或者强迫我们走医学/工程学的道路。甚至我们的教育系统也提倡死记硬背,而不是提出新的想法。

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