你如何解读唐纳德·特朗普在上任的第一天就开始实施旨在修改出生公民权的政策,特别是影响到印度移民社区的政策?
2025-01-22 Natsuo 6766
正文翻译



原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


评论翻译
Ravi Sundararaman
It is a disaster for Indians!
Donald Trump’s executive action on Day one of his second term has gone well beyond denying American citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants.

这对印度人来说是灾难!
唐纳德·特朗普在第二任期的第一天发布的行政命令,远远超出了仅仅拒绝给予非法移民子女美国国籍的范围。

Even children born to valid H-1B visa holders, or any other temporary visa category (e.g. student visa, any type of work visa) will not be eligible to birthright citizenship. That is, kids born in the US to such parents will not automatically get American citizenship.
Only children born to American citizens and green card holders will get automatic citizenship by birth. That is a very long and arduous process. Most people won’t ever get citizenship or permanent residency.

即便是合法的H-1B签证持有者,或任何其他临时签证类别(如学生签证、任何类型的工作签证)的子女,也将无法享有出生公民权。也就是说,父母持有此类签证的孩子出生在美国,将不会自动获得美国国籍。
只有美国公民和绿卡持有者所生的孩子才能自动获得美国公民身份。这是一个非常漫长且艰难的过程。大多数人永远无法获得美国公民身份或永久居留权。

Unless the American Supreme Court overturns Trump’s execution action, this will be the law.
There is an expectation next that the renewal of H-1B visas will be limited. For example, once you spend 6 years in the US on that visa, you will be forced to move back to India. It is meant to be a temporary work visa and will be permitted to be used only as such.

除非美国最高法院推翻特朗普的执行命令,否则这将成为法律。
接下来,人们预计H-1B签证的续签将会受到限制。例如,一旦你在美国持有该签证待满6年,你将被迫回到印度。H-1B签证本应是一个临时工作签证,只能作为临时工作签证使用。

What are the implications?
1. The value of an H-1B just crashed. Indians have been assuming that they can go to the US on an H-1B visa, stay on forever, get married, have kids, settle with their families permanently. Not happening any more.
2.The value of an American education plummeted. Already, getting a job and a visa after completing their education in the US was becoming more and more difficult. As such, it is very expensive to attend college in America. If you can’t even permanently settle down there, what is the point?

这有什么影响呢?
1.H-1B签证的价值暴跌。印度人一直认为,他们可以持H-1B签证去美国,永远待下去,结婚、生孩子,和家人一起永久定居。但这种情况已经不再发生了。
2.美国教育的价值一落千丈。已经有很多人发现,在美国完成学业后找到工作和获得签证越来越困难。因此,去美国上大学的费用非常高。如果你甚至无法在那里永久定居,那么还有什么意义呢?


3. The value of a green card went up. Dowry rates for Indian men with American green cards will shoot through the roof.
4. Overall, the American dream for Indians is over. This is not a place where Indians can migrate for work and then see their kid run for the American Presidency like Vivek Ramaswamy. Those kids won’t even be American citizens.

3.绿卡的价值上升。持有美国绿卡的印度男性的嫁妆价格将暴涨。
4.总体来说,印度人的美国梦结束了。这里不再是印度人可以为工作移民,然后看到自己的孩子像维韦克·拉马斯瓦米那样竞选美国总统的地方。那些孩子甚至不会是美国公民。

Immigration policies in many parts of the world are getting tighter and tighter. A better alternative is not available on a mass scale.
We have one home called India and we better fix it.

世界许多地方的移民政策正变得越来越严格。没有更好的替代选择可以大规模提供。
我们只有一个家——印度,我们最好去修复它。

Sudhir
No one knows the results of such hare brained decisions. Who knows. this might force NRIS to rethink about investing in USA and instead invest their money in India., creating an economic boom.

没有人知道这种荒谬决定的结果。谁知道呢,可能会迫使海外印度人重新考虑是否在美国投资,而是将他们的钱投资到印度,创造一个经济繁荣。

AKS
Trump has done a huge favor to India. We will get back highly talented and trained manpower.

特朗普给印度做了一个大好事。我们将得到高素质、经过良好培训的劳动力。

Sowjanya
Where's the infrastructure to sustain such talented manpower? Not just donkey's load of work we need creativity abounding, not just new opportunities but actual Make in India initiatives in all sectors, and I mean, all round sectors of the country, not just manufacturing, there has to be an Umbrella that covers each and every aspect of a sustainable workforce. A workforce that can actually make a difference, not just by bringing "Ganga" from Shiva's matted locks from the heavens to ground earth, but actual fountain of innovation that starts in the midst of everything that has to be achieved.
We've got thousands of miles to go

哪里有足够的基础设施来支撑如此有才华的劳动力?我们不仅需要大量的工作负担,还需要充满创造力的环境,不仅仅是新的机会,而是真正的“印度制造”倡议,涵盖各个领域,我指的是国家的各个方面,而不仅仅是制造业,必须有一个全面的框架,涵盖可持续劳动力的每一个层面。一个真正能够带来改变的劳动力,不仅仅是像“湿婆的发髻中流下的恒河水”那样从天上带到地面,而是实际的创新源泉,它要从每一件必须完成的事情中涌现出来。
我们还有很长的路要走。

Sachidananda Kamath
Yes, it would be beneficial to India. But i dont think number of indians going abroad for studies would reduce in any way.
I am more interested in seeing all the illegal immigrants deported back, whether from India or anywhere else. If that experiment is successful, countries from across the world would want to try these experiments, this “pitch” would get lot of votes to right wing nationalists.

是的,这对印度有利。但我不认为印度人去国外留学的数量会因此减少。
我更感兴趣的是看到所有非法移民被遣返回国,无论他们来自印度还是其他地方。如果这个实验成功了,全球各国都可能会尝试这些措施,这个“议题”会为右翼民族主义者赢得很多选票。

Hell, we need to do the same thing in India, deport illegal immigrants (Bangladeshi etc.), back to their countries. Saif’s case is just the tip of the iceberg, of the problems caused by illegal immigrants.
Guess what now indians would not go to US for higher studies, they would go wherever its favourable (to get job and stay back), say Canada or Australia.

天哪,我们在印度也需要做同样的事情,把非法移民(比如孟加拉国人等)遣返回他们的国家。赛义夫的案例只是非法移民带来的问题的冰山一角。
你猜怎么着,现在印度人可能不再去美国深造了,他们会去任何对他们有利的地方(找到工作并留下来),比如加拿大或澳大利亚。

SK
Constitution cannot be ammended by executive order. Need to pass with 2/3 rd majority in both houses. Originally this was put in place to legitimise the children of the slaves they abducted from Africa.

宪法不能通过行政命令进行修改。必须在两院通过三分之二的多数票。最初,这一措施是为了合法化那些从非洲绑架过来的奴隶的子女。

Rohit Choubey
Better indians should reduce their family sizes and population first thereby doing away with not only the potential lifetime liabilities on their shoulders on an individual level but on an already poor country as an aggregate of N number large poor families and also doing away with the burden on rich developed countries for accommodation after immigration.The sheer population size of utterly poor countries like india is a perceived and potential threat to the rich developed nations .

印度人应该先减少家庭规模和人口,这样不仅可以消除个人层面上可能承担的终生负担,也能减轻作为贫困国家的整体负担,因为印度等贫困国家由大量贫困家庭组成,同时还可以减轻富裕发达国家在移民后接纳这些人口的压力。像印度这样极度贫困国家的庞大人口规模,被视为对富裕发达国家的潜在威胁。

Aniket Bisht
Indian fertility rate is already approaching the replacement rate of 2.1. Many educated Indians are refraining from marriage and kids. You need to upxe your data.
Rising population is no longer a problem for us but the large amount of poor and uneducated/unskilled people are.

印度的生育率已经接近2.1的更替水平。许多受过教育的印度人正在避免结婚和生育。你需要更新你的数据。人口增长对我们来说不再是一个问题,但大量贫困人口和未受过教育/缺乏技能的人口却是问题。

Param Vishnu
Brain drain for 56 years abroad, due to faulty system of education in India, based on western education. Politicians have created man power for them, not India,where they get exploited in wages,man hours, pay taxes so that west maintains its old junk

56 年来,印度的教育体系以西方教育为基础,导致人才大量外流。政客们为西方培养了劳动力,而不是为印度培养人才,在那里,他们被压榨工资、工作时间,缴纳税款,西方才能维持其旧有的体制。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Prat C
Birthright citizenship is encoded in their constitution. So Trump can't overturn it with an executive order. The order itself is just virtue signaling. Changing the constitution will need 2/3 rds majority and both houses and ratification by 75% of the states

出生公民权已写入宪法。。所以特朗普不能通过行政命令推翻它。行政命令本身只是道德标榜。改变宪法需要三分之二的多数票和两院通过,并且需要75%的州批准。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


Prabhu
This is actually a huge opportunity for the Government of India to invite the best talents back to India with far more attractive remunerations and facilities and hope to compete with them…

这实际上是印度政府一个巨大的机会,可以通过更具吸引力的薪酬和福利邀请最优秀的人才回国,并希望与他们竞争……

Seetaram N T
We have one home called India and we better fix it.
Well said..
Had we tried this much earlier than chasing the American dream, India would have been in a much more better position than the countries Indians dream to immigrate!
Better late than never, the younger generation can start living Indian dreams.

我们只有一个家,叫印度,我们最好把它修好。说得好……如果我们比追逐美国梦时早点意识到这一点,印度可能比那些印度人梦想移民的国家要强得多!虽然晚了,但年轻一代可以开始追求印度梦。

Sharmila Bose
Technically all those are born in the land become natural citizens. However, there is a loophole where people enter thru illegal means deliberately have delivery in the US for citizenship.
thus, Trump approach on this correct partially since it is not known for those who enter US on job visa or education visa or tourist visa

从技术上讲,所有在这片土地上出生的人都是天然公民。然而,有一个漏洞,那些通过非法手段进入美国的人故意在美国生孩子以获得公民身份。因此,特朗普的做法在某种程度上是正确的,因为对于那些持工作签证、学生签证或旅游签证进入美国的人来说,情况并不清楚。

Simon Coles
At first sight President Trump seems to be exceeding his powers: what constitutional right does he have to act on matters of citizenship? I would very much welcome informed commentary on the rights of the president versus congress on this topic.

乍一看,特朗普总统似乎超越了自己的权限:他有什么宪法权利可以就公民权问题采取行动?我非常欢迎对总统与国会在这一问题上的权利发表明智的评论。

Sanjoy Guha
It would be better for India. The Indians working abroad will come back to their motherland to stay. The Law and order in general is better in most Indians states. except East and North-east.

这对印度来说会更好。那些在国外工作的印度人将回到祖国定居。除了东部和东北部,大多数印度邦的法律和秩序总体来说都更好。

Nirmal Kumar B
I understand people want to settle in America. But why the obsession? I am happy here with almost everything in India. I like short trips abroad, but never felt like settling anywhere else. Except good roads and less pollution, i don't think America or any other country has anything more to offer that is not there in India.

我理解人们想定居在美国。但为什么这么执着呢?我对印度的几乎所有东西都很满意。我喜欢出国短途旅行,但从未想过要定居在其他地方。除了道路状况良好和污染较少之外,我认为美国或任何其他国家都无法提供印度所没有的东西。

Erik Painter
Don’t be silly. The constitution would need to be changed. Birthright citizenship is protected under the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.. Trump can’t do that. Changing the constitution is very difficult and would take years,

别傻了。宪法需要修改。出生公民权在宪法第14修正案下受保护……特朗普做不到这一点。修改宪法非常困难,而且会需要多年时间。

Sowjanya
Isn't there a Senate that votes on bills presented in Congress? Why are the POTUS orders be all, end all? Is this how it's gonna be, not anymore a democracy but Oligarchy? I don't understand, how can a President just "give orders" and that either be upheld or overturned by SCOTUS? What is going on? Why do you even elect a Senate at all? Yes, it is all Republican dominated right now, but don't they oppose anything? Wow!

难道不是有参议院投票通过国会提交的法案吗?为什么总统的命令就可以是最终决定?这难道不再是民主而是寡头政治吗?我不明白,总统怎么能仅仅“发号施令”,而这些命令要么被维持,要么被最高法院推翻?到底发生了什么?那为什么还要选举参议院呢?是的,现在是共和党主导,但难道他们不会反对任何事情吗?哇!
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RIDER
If H1B had been kept fair, all this would probably never have happened. Now even the deserving ones won’t get the opportunity. On the positive side, there was a lot of pent-up anger against Indians, at least the revival of white nationalism via political power will keep the Indians who hold the green card secure from racism. The green card Indians should support white nationalism and stay out of trouble.

H1B如果一直保持公平,可能这一切都不会发生。现在即使是那些值得获得机会的人也无法得到机会。从积极的一面来看,针对印度人的愤怒情绪积压已久,至少通过政治权力复兴的白人民族主义将能保护持绿卡的印度人免受种族主义的侵害。持绿卡的印度人应该支持白人民族主义,避免惹麻烦。

John Warr
Trump’s executive order is clearly unconstitutional and will take an amendment to implement. I can see the legal arguments dragging on for years.

特朗普的行政命令显然是违宪的,并且需要通过修正案才能实施。我能看到法律争论会拖延多年。

Vidhya Ram
My aunt thought her grand child was set for life because he was born in the USA.
My friend thought her life was made because she married an NRI guy.
But, Trump dealt them all a blow.
I am not rejoicing, but citizenship by birth always seemed too easy for a country that rigorously filters all its immigrants multiple times to sext only the crème de la crème.
All Trump is saying is :
Get your green card (either parent needs to be a green card holder/ in the military / a citizen) . Until then both you and your children have to prove your worth in the USA.

我姨妈曾认为她的孙子因为出生在美国就一生都没问题。
我朋友认为她嫁给了一个NRI(非居民印度人)男子,她的生活就已经成了。
但是,特朗普给了他们一个沉重的打击。
我并不高兴,但出生公民身份对一个严格筛选所有移民、只挑选精英的国家来说,总是显得太容易了。
特朗普说的意思是:
拿到绿卡(至少一个父母需要是绿卡持有者、军人或公民)。在此之前,你和你的孩子必须证明你们在美国的价值。

Kanthaswamy Balasubramaniam
The Order has lesser value than TOILET PAPER today
Let me explain
Citizenship by Birth is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT enshrined in the US Constitution
It is eligible to every child LEGALLY born in the USA to citizens who are legally present in the USA and who are under US Jurisdiction (Meaning Diplomats are automatically excluded)
The Language of the Constitution is crystal clear

今天,出生公民身份的价值比卫生纸还低
让我解释一下
出生公民身份是美国宪法赋予的宪法权利
每个在美国合法出生的孩子都符合条件,前提是其父母是合法居住在美国并且受到美国司法管辖的公民(这意味着外交人员自动被排除在外)
宪法的语言非常清晰

Trump has NO POWER to force this through
Absolutely no power
He needs to pass a Constitutional Amendment to get this through and that needs
291 Congressmen & 67 Senators
This means 68 Democrats in the House and 23 Democrats in the Senate have to side with all the 223 Republicans in the House and 53 Republicans in the Senate (Plus JD Vance, the Vice President)

特朗普没有权力强行推行这一点。
完全没有权力。
他需要通过一项宪法修正案才能实现这一点,而这需要:
291名众议员和67名参议员。
这意味着众议院中68名民主党人和参议院中23名民主党人必须与所有223名共和党众议员和53名共和党参议员站在一起(加上副总统JD·万斯)。

That is Only Step One
Step Two is to get the approval of majority of the legislatures of 2/3 the states which is 34 States!!!
This means at least 5 States fully democratic controlled have to vote in favor of this Amendment
This Executive Order will have to survive judicial rulings in various federal courts
That alone would take 4 years and Trump would be gone
So it's impact is more to APPEASE his Idiot mass MAGA voter base than anything seriously concrete

这只是第一步
第二步是获得2/3州(即34个州)立法机构的多数批准!!!
这意味着至少5个完全由民主党控制的州必须投票支持这一修正案。
这一行政命令还需要经受各联邦法院的司法裁决。
仅这一点就需要4年时间,而特朗普可能已经下台。
因此,它的影响更多的是为了安抚他的傻乎乎的“让美国再次伟大”选民群体,而不是做出任何真正的实质性改变。

Vasant Joshi
US is a nation of immigrants. People of Jewish, Italian, Spanish, and Irish origin get emotional talking about their forefathers who sought and received refuge in US. They are sympathetic to immigrants. England, Scotland, Wales etc. want to keep immigrants out. Religion-wise Catholic and Jewish faiths are more receptive. Whereas Protestants are less so. Of course this is a broad generalisation.

美国是一个移民国家。犹太裔、意大利裔、西班牙裔和爱尔兰裔的人们谈到他们的祖先时常常激动,他们的祖先曾在美国寻求并获得避难。他们对移民充满同情。而英格兰、苏格兰、威尔士等地则希望阻止移民。宗教上,天主教徒和犹太教徒更为接纳移民,而新教徒则相对较少。当然,这只是一个广泛的概括。

Joely D
Indians?? He is not targeting Indians…I don't know why you are so scared… if you are coming the legal way and if you are a good person then you do not have to worry about anything..
The other thing is that it's nothing new… Trump and his Republican buddies have been discussing about reducing the number of H visas too.. he is against mass immigration and rightly so.. This discussion has been going on for a few weeks..

印度人??他并没有针对印度人……我不知道你为什么这么害怕……如果你是合法入境,且是个好人,那就不用担心什么。
另一方面,这并不是什么新鲜事……特朗普和他的共和党伙伴们一直在讨论减少H签证的数量……他反对大规模移民,这是完全正确的……这个话题已经讨论了几个星期了……

Sumanth
I saw a funny tweet about this:
“Imagine the number of C-sections in February 19.”
It’s obviously not good news for any immigrants, Indian or otherwise. Most European countries have such policies in place as do Australia and New Zealand.

我看到了一条关于这个的有趣推文:
“想象一下2月19日的剖腹产手术数量。”
显然对任何移民来说这都不是好消息,不论是印度人还是其他国家的人。大多数欧洲国家都实行类似的政策,澳大利亚和新西兰也是如此。

More importantly this is an EXECUTIVE ORDER. This means it isn’t an amendment to the US Constitution. I fully expect a load of legal battles and this will be challenged in the Supreme Court of the US bitterly. I’m not sure how the justices over there rule on such matters but in the meantime it’s not looking good for kids born to parents who are on H1B or other visas.

更重要的是,这是一个行政命令。这意味着它并不是对美国宪法的修正。我完全预料到会有一系列的法律纠纷,这将在美国最高法院受到激烈的挑战。我不确定那里的法官对此类问题做出了裁决,但与此同时,对于持有 H1B 或其他签证的父母所生的孩子来说,情况并不乐观。

Sandeepan Bose
The brighter side of the US politics is that it appears to be an issue based politics and not based on race, religion, wealth, ethnicity, language, diet, or any other lines of cleavage they can think about.

美国政治的光明面在于,它似乎是一种基于问题的政治,而不是基于种族、宗教、财富、民族、语言、饮食或他们能想到的任何其他分界线的政治。
原创翻译:龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处


But is this really true?
I don't think so.
All the changes Donald has wished are targetted to gain more votes for himself not for the benefit of the citizens of America.
All the items on his wish list are dog whistles.
Birthright Citizenship needs an Act to be passed in the Senate - a change in the constitution

但这真的是真的吗?
我不这么认为。
特朗普希望的所有改变都是为了为自己争取更多选票,而不是为了美国公民的利益。
他愿望清单上的所有事情都是隐晦晦涩的信号。
出生公民权需要通过参议院的一项法案——这意味着对宪法的改变。

It isn't impossible.
It can be done.
There are people around the world who want to immigrate to USA because they will get a better life doing the same things they do in their country.

这并不是不可能的。
是可以做到的。
世界各地都有想要移民到美国的人,因为他们在美国能过上更好的生活,做着他们在自己国家做的同样的事情。

They try all sorts of tricks.
One of them is to manage to visit USA to deliver a baby. Then go back home.
Then they wait for 18 years for the baby to grow up and claim her / his citizenship in USA and move to the country.

他们会尝试各种手段。
其中一种是设法访问美国并生孩子,然后回到自己的国家。
然后他们等待 18 年,等孩子长大并在美国获得公民身份并移居该国。

After that the parents apply for immigration on grounds of close relationships.
This is a stupid way to immigrate, yet many attempt to do it.
The number of people who gtt in this way are miniscule.
Imagine a 21 year old giving birth to a baby in USA and then getting into USA at the age of 40.

之后,父母会以亲属关系为理由申请移民。
这是一种愚蠢的移民方式,但很多人还是尝试这么做。
通过这种方式成功的人数微乎其微。
想象一下,一个21岁的人在美国生下孩子,然后在40岁时才进入美国。

They won't get Social Security benefits.
Anyways coming to Donald's intention to plug this immigration it is a dog whistles too. He wants to convey to these people - Don't bank on this loophole - you many not get what you desire after 18 years.

他们将无法获得社会保障福利。
总之,特朗普想要堵住这一移民漏洞,这也是一种隐晦的信号。他想传达给这些人——不要指望这个漏洞——你们可能在18年后得不到你们想要的结果。

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