我们正在见证历史：第一个不靠赢棋夺冠的围棋冠军，抗议未果，柯洁退赛，拒绝接受韩国裁判的莫名判罚。LG杯总决赛第三场比赛发生了什么？红迪网热议
正文翻译
tony_chen0227
Based on what I heard in the game mic before the adjournment, Ke Jie had concerns regarding the ruling being delivered on his opponent's time, giving him more time to think... so I believe the judges are discussing the next steps
根据我在休会前从比赛麦克风中听到的内容，柯洁担心裁决是在对手的时间内做出的，这给了他更多的时间去思考……所以我相信裁判们正在讨论下一步的措施
Based on what I heard in the game mic before the adjournment, Ke Jie had concerns regarding the ruling being delivered on his opponent's time, giving him more time to think... so I believe the judges are discussing the next steps
根据我在休会前从比赛麦克风中听到的内容，柯洁担心裁决是在对手的时间内做出的，这给了他更多的时间去思考……所以我相信裁判们正在讨论下一步的措施
kaiasg
The AI had Ke Jie down 20 points, so if he gets DQ'd it probably won't change the result (of this game) but it'd be absolutely ridiculous to have Byun win the finals without legitimately winning a single game.
AI评估显示柯洁落后 20 分，所以如果他被取消资格，可能不会改变（这场比赛的）结果，但如果卞相壹没有真正赢得一场比赛就赢得决赛，那绝对是荒谬的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The AI had Ke Jie down 20 points, so if he gets DQ'd it probably won't change the result (of this game) but it'd be absolutely ridiculous to have Byun win the finals without legitimately winning a single game.
AI评估显示柯洁落后 20 分，所以如果他被取消资格，可能不会改变（这场比赛的）结果，但如果卞相壹没有真正赢得一场比赛就赢得决赛，那绝对是荒谬的。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The broadcast had a few minutes back a picture of the stone placed on the side of the board but not in the bowl, so it looks like the same issue.
几分钟前，直播中有一张照片显示，棋子被放在棋盘的一侧，但没有被放入碗中，所以看起来是和第二场比赛同样的问题。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
几分钟前，直播中有一张照片显示，棋子被放在棋盘的一侧，但没有被放入碗中，所以看起来是和第二场比赛同样的问题。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
really really embarrassing for all involved this is not how you want the finals of your tournament to look.
这真的让所有参赛选手和观众感到非常尴尬，这不是您期望的锦标赛决赛所呈现的样子。
这真的让所有参赛选手和观众感到非常尴尬，这不是您期望的锦标赛决赛所呈现的样子。
Charles9527
No, Although Ke Jie is down in AI, he is making the board very messy and he have more time to set up the board and calculate for comeback in such complex situation while Sang-il does not have much time left for him to untangle this board, this is the only way for Ke Jie to make a comeback and he is quite good at this tactic when he is behind, but pausing the game give Sang-il A LOT of time to think this through and make this final very unfair.
不是的，虽然柯洁在AI评估上落后，但他把比赛局势弄得复杂混乱，在如此复杂的情况下，他有更多的时间设置棋盘并计算反攻，而相壹没有太多时间留给他解开这个棋局，这是柯洁反攻的唯一方法，他在落后时非常擅长这种战术，但暂停比赛给了相壹更多时间去思考，让这场决赛变得非常不公平。
No, Although Ke Jie is down in AI, he is making the board very messy and he have more time to set up the board and calculate for comeback in such complex situation while Sang-il does not have much time left for him to untangle this board, this is the only way for Ke Jie to make a comeback and he is quite good at this tactic when he is behind, but pausing the game give Sang-il A LOT of time to think this through and make this final very unfair.
不是的，虽然柯洁在AI评估上落后，但他把比赛局势弄得复杂混乱，在如此复杂的情况下，他有更多的时间设置棋盘并计算反攻，而相壹没有太多时间留给他解开这个棋局，这是柯洁反攻的唯一方法，他在落后时非常擅长这种战术，但暂停比赛给了相壹更多时间去思考，让这场决赛变得非常不公平。
Financial-Drummer825
Actually, Ke Jie just won the first round in a similar situation. It's highly possible to win at this rate because the rate simply assumes the player is an AI and won't make any mistakes.
其实，柯洁刚刚在类似情况下赢下第一局。以这个胜率评分获胜的可能性很大，因为评分系统假设玩家是AI，不会犯任何错误。
Actually, Ke Jie just won the first round in a similar situation. It's highly possible to win at this rate because the rate simply assumes the player is an AI and won't make any mistakes.
其实，柯洁刚刚在类似情况下赢下第一局。以这个胜率评分获胜的可能性很大，因为评分系统假设玩家是AI，不会犯任何错误。
Stunning-Cod3163
Cancel this stupid rule please, players should only focus on the board game itself
就应该取消这个愚蠢的规则，选手应该只关注围棋比赛本身。
Cancel this stupid rule please, players should only focus on the board game itself
就应该取消这个愚蠢的规则，选手应该只关注围棋比赛本身。
i-eat-omelettes
Not a go professional, just asking - can one blunder in go similar to chess? Because the AI would not be decisive then.
不是围棋专业人士，只是想问一下——围棋中会像国际象棋一样犯错吗？因为当选手犯错时AI评分系统就没有决定价值了。
Not a go professional, just asking - can one blunder in go similar to chess? Because the AI would not be decisive then.
不是围棋专业人士，只是想问一下——围棋中会像国际象棋一样犯错吗？因为当选手犯错时AI评分系统就没有决定价值了。
AndyMarden
Maybe the tournament is trying to outdo the chess world and their Jeansgate. Such a load of nonsense, all of it.
也许锦标赛是想超越国际象棋界和他们的“牛仔裤门事件”（译者注：国际象棋卫冕冠军的芒格努斯·卡尔森因为穿牛仔裤而非正装被裁判判负）。这个比赛真是一塌糊涂。
Maybe the tournament is trying to outdo the chess world and their Jeansgate. Such a load of nonsense, all of it.
也许锦标赛是想超越国际象棋界和他们的“牛仔裤门事件”（译者注：国际象棋卫冕冠军的芒格努斯·卡尔森因为穿牛仔裤而非正装被裁判判负）。这个比赛真是一塌糊涂。
Charles9527
Although Ke Jie is down in AI, he is making the board very messy and he have more time to set up the board and calculate for comeback in such complex situation while Sang-il does not have much time left for him to untangle this board, this is the only way for Ke Jie to make a comeback and he is good at this tactic when he is behind, but pausing the game give Sang-il A LOT of time to think this through and make this final very unfair.
然柯洁在AI评估上落后，但他把比赛局势弄得复杂混乱，在如此复杂的情况下，他有更多的时间设置棋盘并计算反攻，而相壹没有太多时间留给他解开这个棋局，这是柯洁反攻的唯一方法，他在落后时非常擅长这种战术，但暂停比赛给了相壹更多时间去思考，让这场决赛变得非常不公平。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Although Ke Jie is down in AI, he is making the board very messy and he have more time to set up the board and calculate for comeback in such complex situation while Sang-il does not have much time left for him to untangle this board, this is the only way for Ke Jie to make a comeback and he is good at this tactic when he is behind, but pausing the game give Sang-il A LOT of time to think this through and make this final very unfair.
然柯洁在AI评估上落后，但他把比赛局势弄得复杂混乱，在如此复杂的情况下，他有更多的时间设置棋盘并计算反攻，而相壹没有太多时间留给他解开这个棋局，这是柯洁反攻的唯一方法，他在落后时非常擅长这种战术，但暂停比赛给了相壹更多时间去思考，让这场决赛变得非常不公平。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
charisu81
We are witnessing history: The first winless champion, exceeding even AI capabilities
我们正在见证历史：第一个不通过赢棋拿下的冠军，（卞相壹）甚至拥有超越了人工智能的能力
We are witnessing history: The first winless champion, exceeding even AI capabilities
我们正在见证历史：第一个不通过赢棋拿下的冠军，（卞相壹）甚至拥有超越了人工智能的能力
LHMQ
Does anyone know what the rules were before they changed it? It’s not like this is the first time Ke Jie played in the LG cup, why does the rule cause so many problems for him now?
有谁知道修改前的规则是怎样的吗？柯洁又不是第一次打LG杯，为什么现在这个规则给他带来了这么多麻烦？
Does anyone know what the rules were before they changed it? It’s not like this is the first time Ke Jie played in the LG cup, why does the rule cause so many problems for him now?
有谁知道修改前的规则是怎样的吗？柯洁又不是第一次打LG杯，为什么现在这个规则给他带来了这么多麻烦？
Altruistic_Ad2077
The first round of this LG cup was held in May 2024. The new policy was published in November 2024. Previous LG cup did not apply this new policy.
本届 LG 杯首轮比赛于 2024 年 5 月举行。新规则于 2024 年 11 月发布。上届 LG 杯并未采用这项新规则。
The first round of this LG cup was held in May 2024. The new policy was published in November 2024. Previous LG cup did not apply this new policy.
本届 LG 杯首轮比赛于 2024 年 5 月举行。新规则于 2024 年 11 月发布。上届 LG 杯并未采用这项新规则。
LHMQ
I know, that’s why I asked what the rules were before this new one.
我懂了，所以我才问这个新规则之前的规则是什么。
I know, that’s why I asked what the rules were before this new one.
我懂了，所以我才问这个新规则之前的规则是什么。
Charles9527
as i remember, its penalty is just a simple verbal warning before nov
我记得，11月之前旧规则的处罚规定是只进行简单的口头警告
as i remember, its penalty is just a simple verbal warning before nov
我记得，11月之前旧规则的处罚规定是只进行简单的口头警告
tony_chen0227
I heard this in a different stream, but rumor has it that the Chinese and Korean Budak organizations have differing policies regarding this sort of stuff
我在另一个直播流中听到了这一点，有小道消息说，中国和韩国的围棋赛事组织者对类似事件有不同的政策
I heard this in a different stream, but rumor has it that the Chinese and Korean Budak organizations have differing policies regarding this sort of stuff
我在另一个直播流中听到了这一点，有小道消息说，中国和韩国的围棋赛事组织者对类似事件有不同的政策
In China, a rule infraction only is usually issued if the opponent proactively raises the concern.
在中国，通常只有在对手主动提出关切时才会触发违规。
在中国，通常只有在对手主动提出关切时才会触发违规。
However in Korea, I believe the judges have the authority to jump into the game and issue rulings without either player taking part.
然而在韩国，我相信裁判有权主动介入比赛在无需任何选手参与的情况下做出裁决。
然而在韩国，我相信裁判有权主动介入比赛在无需任何选手参与的情况下做出裁决。
LHMQ
I’ve never seen games being disrupted to this degree over something so trivial. This is beyond ridiculous.
我从未见过比赛因为如此微不足道的事情而受到如此严重的干扰。这太荒谬了。
I’ve never seen games being disrupted to this degree over something so trivial. This is beyond ridiculous.
我从未见过比赛因为如此微不足道的事情而受到如此严重的干扰。这太荒谬了。
ReplacementCold5503
In a soccer match, during the final minute, the trailing team's striker dribbled the ball into the penalty area on his own, but the referee stopped the game because his socks were not worn properly. Is this reasonable?
一场足球比赛，最后时刻，落后一方的前锋独自带球进入禁区，裁判却以他的袜子穿得不对为由叫停了比赛，这合理吗？
In a soccer match, during the final minute, the trailing team's striker dribbled the ball into the penalty area on his own, but the referee stopped the game because his socks were not worn properly. Is this reasonable?
一场足球比赛，最后时刻，落后一方的前锋独自带球进入禁区，裁判却以他的袜子穿得不对为由叫停了比赛，这合理吗？
EducationLast6270
I want to use another analogy, because it is about a person's long-standing habits, just like you are used to holding a fork in your left hand and a knife in your right hand,
我想再打个比方，因为这是一个人长期以来养成的习惯，就像你习惯左手拿叉，右手拿刀，
I want to use another analogy, because it is about a person's long-standing habits, just like you are used to holding a fork in your left hand and a knife in your right hand,
我想再打个比方，因为这是一个人长期以来养成的习惯，就像你习惯左手拿叉，右手拿刀，
But now there is a requirement that you must holding the knife in your left hand and the fork in your right hand and take a photo after every bite, and then you switch back to using the fork in your left hand when eating the next bite. If you make a mistake once during a dinner, it will be considered a violation.
但现在有规定，你必须左手拿刀，右手拿叉，每吃一口都要拍照，下一口吃的时候再换回左手拿叉。如果在吃饭的时候犯了一次错误，就算违规了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
但现在有规定，你必须左手拿刀，右手拿叉，每吃一口都要拍照，下一口吃的时候再换回左手拿叉。如果在吃饭的时候犯了一次错误，就算违规了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
The other person was trained to use a knife in his left hand and a fork in his right hand since he was a child.
而另一个比赛对手从小就被训练左手拿刀，右手拿叉。
而另一个比赛对手从小就被训练左手拿刀，右手拿叉。
tony_chen0227
XDDD that’s a brilliant analogy!
真是一个绝妙的比喻！
XDDD that’s a brilliant analogy!
真是一个绝妙的比喻！
Financial-Drummer825
The rules do not specify when the stone should be placed in the lid of the bowl
规则没有规定何时将棋子放入碗盖
The rules do not specify when the stone should be placed in the lid of the bowl
规则没有规定何时将棋子放入碗盖
If a player places the stone on the table, the opponent can clearly see it. Besides, it is ridiculous to say that professional players need to count the taken stones—NO ONE DOES
THAT
假设棋手将棋子放在桌子上，对手也可以清楚地看到。此外，说职业棋手需要计算所取棋子的数量是荒谬的——没有人这样做
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
THAT
假设棋手将棋子放在桌子上，对手也可以清楚地看到。此外，说职业棋手需要计算所取棋子的数量是荒谬的——没有人这样做
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Byun Sang-il also violated multiple rules, including but not limited to stopping the timer before making a move.
卞相壹还违反了多项规则，包括但不限于在下棋前停止计时器。
卞相壹还违反了多项规则，包括但不限于在下棋前停止计时器。
sadaharu2624
Just to rebut point 2: the Korean players do that. Many other players who play with territory scoring also do that
反驳第2点：只有韩国选手是这么做的。许多其他玩类似围棋圈地数子得分游戏的玩家也这么做
Just to rebut point 2: the Korean players do that. Many other players who play with territory scoring also do that
反驳第2点：只有韩国选手是这么做的。许多其他玩类似围棋圈地数子得分游戏的玩家也这么做
Financial-Drummer825
As far as I know: No one does that. Put this aside, the stone is crystal clear on the table.
据我所知：没有人会这么做。抛开这个不谈，棋子放在桌上是显而易见的。
As far as I know: No one does that. Put this aside, the stone is crystal clear on the table.
据我所知：没有人会这么做。抛开这个不谈，棋子放在桌上是显而易见的。
ihjiz
Do you really think it's crystal clear how many stones are captured when one stone is on the left side of the board, two stones are on the right side of the board, one stone is behind the stone container, and two stones are behind the timer? Why would territory-scoring players keep thinking about all the locations of captured stones if it's simple when they're all stored in one container? The rule totally makes sense in the Korean and Japanese scoring systems. I think the problem lies in the unnecessarily harsh penalty when the rule is violated.
你真的认为当一颗棋子在棋盘左侧、两颗棋子在棋盘右侧、一颗棋子在棋子容器后面、两颗棋子在计时器后面时，可以清楚地知道被吃掉的棋子数量吗？如果所有棋子都存放在一个容器中，那么选手为什么要一直想着所有被吃掉的棋子的位置呢？这条规则在韩国和日本的计分系统中完全合理。我认为问题在于违反这条规则时棋手受到了过于严苛的惩罚。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Do you really think it's crystal clear how many stones are captured when one stone is on the left side of the board, two stones are on the right side of the board, one stone is behind the stone container, and two stones are behind the timer? Why would territory-scoring players keep thinking about all the locations of captured stones if it's simple when they're all stored in one container? The rule totally makes sense in the Korean and Japanese scoring systems. I think the problem lies in the unnecessarily harsh penalty when the rule is violated.
你真的认为当一颗棋子在棋盘左侧、两颗棋子在棋盘右侧、一颗棋子在棋子容器后面、两颗棋子在计时器后面时，可以清楚地知道被吃掉的棋子数量吗？如果所有棋子都存放在一个容器中，那么选手为什么要一直想着所有被吃掉的棋子的位置呢？这条规则在韩国和日本的计分系统中完全合理。我认为问题在于违反这条规则时棋手受到了过于严苛的惩罚。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
评论翻译
Financial-Drummer825
The game of Go has been around for thousands of years, and there has never been a rule about this. What's the problem if I place the stone in the lid after a few minutes? Is a warning or even a reminder worse than just destroying the game? Why do they only point out Ke Jie's mistake but ignore Bian's?
围棋这项运动已经存在了上千年，从来没有关于提子摆放位置的规则。我将提子延迟几分钟后再放入棋盖里，这有什么问题？警告甚至提醒比直接毁掉比赛更糟糕吗？为什么他们只指出柯洁的错误，却忽略了卞氏的错误？
The game of Go has been around for thousands of years, and there has never been a rule about this. What's the problem if I place the stone in the lid after a few minutes? Is a warning or even a reminder worse than just destroying the game? Why do they only point out Ke Jie's mistake but ignore Bian's?
围棋这项运动已经存在了上千年，从来没有关于提子摆放位置的规则。我将提子延迟几分钟后再放入棋盖里，这有什么问题？警告甚至提醒比直接毁掉比赛更糟糕吗？为什么他们只指出柯洁的错误，却忽略了卞氏的错误？
Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. I just want to say there are too many problems with this rule. Let's just admit it's ridiculous. There have been too many controversial games, but we can't change the results.
对不起，我不是故意无礼。我只是想说这条规则有太多问题。它确实很荒谬。有太多有争议的比赛，但我们无法改变结果。
对不起，我不是故意无礼。我只是想说这条规则有太多问题。它确实很荒谬。有太多有争议的比赛，但我们无法改变结果。
Even_Special_4466
Ridiculous? Just have a look at the game between Shin Jinseo and Ke Jie in the Samsung Cup. Ke Jie found a black stone in his white bowl and put it aside his other prisoners. Guess what, that particular stone was not captured and was there due to some error.
荒谬？看看三星杯上申真谞和柯洁之间的比赛就知道了。柯洁在他的白碗里发现了一颗黑棋，并把它放在了其他棋子旁边。您猜怎么着儿，因为某些错误，那颗棋子并没有被吃掉。
Ridiculous? Just have a look at the game between Shin Jinseo and Ke Jie in the Samsung Cup. Ke Jie found a black stone in his white bowl and put it aside his other prisoners. Guess what, that particular stone was not captured and was there due to some error.
荒谬？看看三星杯上申真谞和柯洁之间的比赛就知道了。柯洁在他的白碗里发现了一颗黑棋，并把它放在了其他棋子旁边。您猜怎么着儿，因为某些错误，那颗棋子并没有被吃掉。
But what is important is that the game ended with a 0.5 point for Shin, making that stone a game changer, of course, in the case the arbiters didn’t intervene.
但重要的是，比赛以申真谞赢0.5目结束，当然，如果裁判没有干预的话，那颗棋子就改变了比赛结果。
但重要的是，比赛以申真谞赢0.5目结束，当然，如果裁判没有干预的话，那颗棋子就改变了比赛结果。
So, instead of saying “ridiculous rules”, try to learn the basic rules of Go, especially if u are a top player like Ke Jie.
所以，与其说“荒谬的规则”，不如试着学习围棋的基本规则，尤其是如果你是柯洁这样的顶级选手。
所以，与其说“荒谬的规则”，不如试着学习围棋的基本规则，尤其是如果你是柯洁这样的顶级选手。
UnitNo2682
But how is that Ke Jie’s fault? With cameras and computers recording and counting every move, if the judge didn’t count the points correctly, why is Ke Jie the one being blamed?
但这怎么能怪柯洁呢？摄像机和电脑记录和计算着每一步棋，如果裁判没有正确计分，为什么柯洁要受到指责呢？
But how is that Ke Jie’s fault? With cameras and computers recording and counting every move, if the judge didn’t count the points correctly, why is Ke Jie the one being blamed?
但这怎么能怪柯洁呢？摄像机和电脑记录和计算着每一步棋，如果裁判没有正确计分，为什么柯洁要受到指责呢？
drainihjiz
>> That's so Korea... As long as any situation is unfavorable to Koreans, they will try every possible way, even breaking the rules, to achieve victory. This is because Koreans never respect rules or their opponents; they only care about winning, even if it’s a stolen victory.
这就是韩国。。。只要任何情况对韩国人不利，他们就会想尽一切办法，甚至打破规则，取得胜利。这是因为韩国人从不尊重规则或对手；他们只关心胜利，即使这是一场偷来的胜利。
>> That's so Korea... As long as any situation is unfavorable to Koreans, they will try every possible way, even breaking the rules, to achieve victory. This is because Koreans never respect rules or their opponents; they only care about winning, even if it’s a stolen victory.
这就是韩国。。。只要任何情况对韩国人不利，他们就会想尽一切办法，甚至打破规则，取得胜利。这是因为韩国人从不尊重规则或对手；他们只关心胜利，即使这是一场偷来的胜利。
We should criticize based on facts, not on rumors or biased hatred.
我们应该基于事实进行批评，而不是基于谣言或偏见的仇恨。
我们应该基于事实进行批评，而不是基于谣言或偏见的仇恨。
>> Even Byun himself has violated these so-called rules multiple times, yet Ke Jie neither raised obxtions nor reported it, and the organizers didn’t address the violations in any way.
>>就连卞相壹本人也多次违反这些所谓的规则，但柯杰既没有提出异议，也没有报告，组织者也没有以任何方式解决这些违规行为。
>>就连卞相壹本人也多次违反这些所谓的规则，但柯杰既没有提出异议，也没有报告，组织者也没有以任何方式解决这些违规行为。
Taste-Simple
It would be surprising if this were true. Do you have any proof?
如果你说的是事实那确实太令人吃惊了，你有证据吗？
It would be surprising if this were true. Do you have any proof?
如果你说的是事实那确实太令人吃惊了，你有证据吗？
ReplacementCold5503
If you're looking for evidence, Game1 his sleeve moved the piece, Ke jie had no react of this, shortly he moved the piece back, no penalty. Game3 move 52, no penalty either.
如果你正在寻找证据，第一场比赛他的袖子移动了棋子，柯洁对此没有反应，很快他就把棋子移回来了，没有处罚。第三场第52手，也没有处罚。
If you're looking for evidence, Game1 his sleeve moved the piece, Ke jie had no react of this, shortly he moved the piece back, no penalty. Game3 move 52, no penalty either.
如果你正在寻找证据，第一场比赛他的袖子移动了棋子，柯洁对此没有反应，很快他就把棋子移回来了，没有处罚。第三场第52手，也没有处罚。
For Korean, all I said based on facts, not on rumors or biased hatred.You're dreaming the whole world to forget World Cup Korea VS Italy?
对于韩国人来说，我所说的一切都是基于事实，而不是谣言或者基于偏见的仇恨。你以为全世界球迷能忘记世界杯韩国VS意大利的那场比赛？
对于韩国人来说，我所说的一切都是基于事实，而不是谣言或者基于偏见的仇恨。你以为全世界球迷能忘记世界杯韩国VS意大利的那场比赛？
Again, that's so Korea.
再次申明，这种行为就很韩国。
再次申明，这种行为就很韩国。
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