为什么阿拉伯文明从未从蒙古人的入侵中恢复过来？（二）
正文翻译
我想你真正想问的是：“为什么伊斯兰文明从未从蒙古入侵中恢复过来？”答案是波斯——伊斯兰世界的心脏与灵魂。
波斯是整个伊斯兰世界在智力和文化上最具创造力的地区，同时也是唯一一个因蒙古人的蹂躏而遭受不可挽回伤害的穆斯林土地。据估计，蒙古入侵导致波斯人口减少了70%到90%。波斯的大部分城市被夷为平地，灌溉系统被摧毁，图书馆被焚毁，大多数人要么丧生，要么沦为游牧者。结果，这片曾经最文明的穆斯林土地，变成了昔日辉煌的苍白影子。曾经孕育了伊本·西那（Ibn Sina）、法拉比（al-Fārābī）、比鲁尼（Al-Biruni）和阿尔·花剌子模的土地，如今连维持运转所需的识字人口都几乎不复存在，以至于蒙古可汗不得不从中国引进文书和行政人员。
这一情况间接导致了整个穆斯林世界的衰落，包括“阿拉伯文明”。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Lambert
Because there was nothing to recover from. The vast majority of Arab lands weren't even touched by the Mongols. The only Arab lands that were conquered by the Mongols were Iraq and Syria, and it was mostly in Iraq that the Mongols brought devastation.
I think what you really meant to ask was, “why did the Islamic civilization never recover from Mongol invasions?” The answer is Persia—the Heart and Mind of the Islamic world.
Persia was the most intellectually and culturally productive region in all of the Islamic world, and it was also the only Muslim land that was irrecoverably maimed by the Mongol scourge. By some estimates its population was reduced by 70-90% as a result of the Mongol invasions. Most cities in Persia were razed, most irrigation systems were destroyed, most libraries were set on fire, and most people either perished or turned into nomads. As a result, the once most civilized of Muslim lands was reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. The land that once produced Ibn Sina, al-Fārābī, Al-Biruni, and Al-Khwarizmi, barely had enough literate people to keep it running anymore, so the Mongol Khans had to import scribes and administrators from China.
This indirectly resulted in the decline of the Muslim world as a whole, including the “Arab civilization.”
因为实际上，阿拉伯世界并没有太多需要恢复的地方。蒙古人并未触及阿拉伯世界的绝大部分地区。蒙古人征服的阿拉伯土地仅限于伊拉克和叙利亚，而真正遭受毁灭性打击的主要是伊拉克。
Because there was nothing to recover from. The vast majority of Arab lands weren't even touched by the Mongols. The only Arab lands that were conquered by the Mongols were Iraq and Syria, and it was mostly in Iraq that the Mongols brought devastation.
I think what you really meant to ask was, “why did the Islamic civilization never recover from Mongol invasions?” The answer is Persia—the Heart and Mind of the Islamic world.
Persia was the most intellectually and culturally productive region in all of the Islamic world, and it was also the only Muslim land that was irrecoverably maimed by the Mongol scourge. By some estimates its population was reduced by 70-90% as a result of the Mongol invasions. Most cities in Persia were razed, most irrigation systems were destroyed, most libraries were set on fire, and most people either perished or turned into nomads. As a result, the once most civilized of Muslim lands was reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. The land that once produced Ibn Sina, al-Fārābī, Al-Biruni, and Al-Khwarizmi, barely had enough literate people to keep it running anymore, so the Mongol Khans had to import scribes and administrators from China.
This indirectly resulted in the decline of the Muslim world as a whole, including the “Arab civilization.”
因为实际上，阿拉伯世界并没有太多需要恢复的地方。蒙古人并未触及阿拉伯世界的绝大部分地区。蒙古人征服的阿拉伯土地仅限于伊拉克和叙利亚，而真正遭受毁灭性打击的主要是伊拉克。
我想你真正想问的是：“为什么伊斯兰文明从未从蒙古入侵中恢复过来？”答案是波斯——伊斯兰世界的心脏与灵魂。
波斯是整个伊斯兰世界在智力和文化上最具创造力的地区，同时也是唯一一个因蒙古人的蹂躏而遭受不可挽回伤害的穆斯林土地。据估计，蒙古入侵导致波斯人口减少了70%到90%。波斯的大部分城市被夷为平地，灌溉系统被摧毁，图书馆被焚毁，大多数人要么丧生，要么沦为游牧者。结果，这片曾经最文明的穆斯林土地，变成了昔日辉煌的苍白影子。曾经孕育了伊本·西那（Ibn Sina）、法拉比（al-Fārābī）、比鲁尼（Al-Biruni）和阿尔·花剌子模的土地，如今连维持运转所需的识字人口都几乎不复存在，以至于蒙古可汗不得不从中国引进文书和行政人员。
这一情况间接导致了整个穆斯林世界的衰落，包括“阿拉伯文明”。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
评论翻译
TK
By some estimates its population was reduced by 70-90% as a result of the Mongol invasions
By 50% according to most estimates, a few cities in Iranian Central Asia (like Bukhara, Samarkand, Merv, etc) had almost 90% of their population declined, that’s why those regions are Turkic now whereas they used to be Iranian before that
根据一些估计，由于蒙古入侵，其人口减少了70-90%。
根据大多数估计，人口减少了50%，伊朗中亚的一些城市（如布哈拉、撒马尔罕、梅尔夫等）的人口几乎减少了90%，这就是为什么这些地区现在是突厥化的，而在此之前它们是伊朗化的。
By some estimates its population was reduced by 70-90% as a result of the Mongol invasions
By 50% according to most estimates, a few cities in Iranian Central Asia (like Bukhara, Samarkand, Merv, etc) had almost 90% of their population declined, that’s why those regions are Turkic now whereas they used to be Iranian before that
根据一些估计，由于蒙古入侵，其人口减少了70-90%。
根据大多数估计，人口减少了50%，伊朗中亚的一些城市（如布哈拉、撒马尔罕、梅尔夫等）的人口几乎减少了90%，这就是为什么这些地区现在是突厥化的，而在此之前它们是伊朗化的。
Chetan Naik
OMG! Total demographic change. I believe significant portion of them are descendants of Changez Khan.
天啊！完全的人口结构变化。我相信他们中有很大一部分是成吉思汗的后裔。
OMG! Total demographic change. I believe significant portion of them are descendants of Changez Khan.
天啊！完全的人口结构变化。我相信他们中有很大一部分是成吉思汗的后裔。
R.Kumar
It is really crazy when you think about it.
A significant portion of Afghanistan is tajik and these Afghan tajiks were not as badly affected by Mongols so they look like standard Iranic peoples.
However if you go to Tajikistan the country of tajiks, only southern people look Iranic northern people have slant eyes and look turkic while middle part people look mix of both.
This is also why in Indic records early central asian invaders in India were described as standard caucasoid Iranic peoples with brownish hair thick beards and yellowish fair to bronze skin while later central asians like Mughals are described having less facial hair and slant eyes.
仔细想想，这确实令人难以置信。
阿富汗的很大一部分人口是塔吉克人，而这些阿富汗塔吉克人并未受到蒙古人的严重破坏，因此他们看起来像标准的伊朗人种。
然而，如果你去塔吉克斯坦——塔吉克人的国家，只有南部的人看起来像伊朗人，北部的人则有斜眼，看起来像突厥人，而中部的人则是两者的混合。
这也是为什么在印度的历史记录中，早期入侵印度的中亚人被描述为标准的伊朗人种，拥有棕色头发、浓密的胡须和浅黄到古铜色的皮肤，而后来入侵的中亚人（如莫卧儿人）则被描述为胡须较少、眼睛斜长。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It is really crazy when you think about it.
A significant portion of Afghanistan is tajik and these Afghan tajiks were not as badly affected by Mongols so they look like standard Iranic peoples.
However if you go to Tajikistan the country of tajiks, only southern people look Iranic northern people have slant eyes and look turkic while middle part people look mix of both.
This is also why in Indic records early central asian invaders in India were described as standard caucasoid Iranic peoples with brownish hair thick beards and yellowish fair to bronze skin while later central asians like Mughals are described having less facial hair and slant eyes.
仔细想想，这确实令人难以置信。
阿富汗的很大一部分人口是塔吉克人，而这些阿富汗塔吉克人并未受到蒙古人的严重破坏，因此他们看起来像标准的伊朗人种。
然而，如果你去塔吉克斯坦——塔吉克人的国家，只有南部的人看起来像伊朗人，北部的人则有斜眼，看起来像突厥人，而中部的人则是两者的混合。
这也是为什么在印度的历史记录中，早期入侵印度的中亚人被描述为标准的伊朗人种，拥有棕色头发、浓密的胡须和浅黄到古铜色的皮肤，而后来入侵的中亚人（如莫卧儿人）则被描述为胡须较少、眼睛斜长。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Muhammad Ahmadi
most of the people living in samarkand merv bukhara were tajiks
居住在撒马尔罕、梅尔夫和布哈拉的大多数人都是塔吉克人。
most of the people living in samarkand merv bukhara were tajiks
居住在撒马尔罕、梅尔夫和布哈拉的大多数人都是塔吉克人。
Zayn Rae
Incorrect. There are different people existing in Iranic regions. The Turkics were always carrying Mongloid genes.
不正确。伊朗地区存在不同的民族。突厥人一直携带蒙古人种的基因。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Incorrect. There are different people existing in Iranic regions. The Turkics were always carrying Mongloid genes.
不正确。伊朗地区存在不同的民族。突厥人一直携带蒙古人种的基因。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Francis Unger
The east and center of Persia are somehow mixed with mongols, the north and the west remained approximately intact due to the fact that mongols invaded the main cities of persia and mountainous regions were not affected by both arabs and mongols.
波斯的东部和中部在某种程度上与蒙古人混合，而北部和西部大致保持原样，因为蒙古人入侵了波斯的主要城市，而山区则未受阿拉伯人和蒙古人的影响。
The east and center of Persia are somehow mixed with mongols, the north and the west remained approximately intact due to the fact that mongols invaded the main cities of persia and mountainous regions were not affected by both arabs and mongols.
波斯的东部和中部在某种程度上与蒙古人混合，而北部和西部大致保持原样，因为蒙古人入侵了波斯的主要城市，而山区则未受阿拉伯人和蒙古人的影响。
Open to Knowledge
Compare it with Hindus who generate hate out of history still they are 80% in population.
Muslims most of the civilization destroyed during Mongol invasion but still they don't hate them. In fact you can see lot of Muslims has “Khan” as there title. Please learn.
相比之下，印度教徒从历史中产生仇恨，但他们仍然占人口的80%。穆斯林在蒙古入侵期间大部分文明被摧毁，但他们仍然不恨蒙古人。事实上，你可以看到很多穆斯林以“汗”为称号。请学习一下。
Compare it with Hindus who generate hate out of history still they are 80% in population.
Muslims most of the civilization destroyed during Mongol invasion but still they don't hate them. In fact you can see lot of Muslims has “Khan” as there title. Please learn.
相比之下，印度教徒从历史中产生仇恨，但他们仍然占人口的80%。穆斯林在蒙古入侵期间大部分文明被摧毁，但他们仍然不恨蒙古人。事实上，你可以看到很多穆斯林以“汗”为称号。请学习一下。
Alisher Orynbek
Bukhara and Samarkand were mostly Tajik speaking even some 150 years ago. Assimilation happened.
即使在150年前，布哈拉和撒马尔罕也主要是说塔吉克语的。后来同化发生了。
Bukhara and Samarkand were mostly Tajik speaking even some 150 years ago. Assimilation happened.
即使在150年前，布哈拉和撒马尔罕也主要是说塔吉克语的。后来同化发生了。
TK
they are still Tajik cities, in general Uzbekistan has about 30% Tajiks
它们仍然是塔吉克城市，总体而言，乌兹别克斯坦大约有30%的塔吉克人。
they are still Tajik cities, in general Uzbekistan has about 30% Tajiks
它们仍然是塔吉克城市，总体而言，乌兹别克斯坦大约有30%的塔吉克人。
Tt Öztürk
Why europeans support tajiks? Because of stupid hitler idea like aryan? Then nonsense
This lands are not tajik when Turks conquered this areas it was another iranian peoples like sogidans and tocharians
Asimilation is everywhere dont blame on Turks
persified kurds afghans mongolized Turks manchurians and arabization on greek and armenian russians are asimilated varangian vikigs and mixed groups of ural-altai population also there is a europeanized on Native americans and Aztecs
为什么欧洲人支持塔吉克人？是因为像希特勒那样的“雅利安人”愚蠢观念吗？这完全是胡说八道。
这些土地在突厥人征服之前并不是塔吉克人的，而是其他伊朗民族（如粟特人和吐火罗人）的居住地。
同化现象无处不在，不要怪罪突厥人。
波斯化的库尔德人、阿富汗人，蒙古化的突厥人、满族人，阿拉伯化的希腊人和亚美尼亚人，俄罗斯人则是同化了瓦兰吉亚维京人并与乌拉尔-阿尔泰人口混合的群体。此外，还有欧洲化的美洲原住民和阿兹特克人。
Why europeans support tajiks? Because of stupid hitler idea like aryan? Then nonsense
This lands are not tajik when Turks conquered this areas it was another iranian peoples like sogidans and tocharians
Asimilation is everywhere dont blame on Turks
persified kurds afghans mongolized Turks manchurians and arabization on greek and armenian russians are asimilated varangian vikigs and mixed groups of ural-altai population also there is a europeanized on Native americans and Aztecs
为什么欧洲人支持塔吉克人？是因为像希特勒那样的“雅利安人”愚蠢观念吗？这完全是胡说八道。
这些土地在突厥人征服之前并不是塔吉克人的，而是其他伊朗民族（如粟特人和吐火罗人）的居住地。
同化现象无处不在，不要怪罪突厥人。
波斯化的库尔德人、阿富汗人，蒙古化的突厥人、满族人，阿拉伯化的希腊人和亚美尼亚人，俄罗斯人则是同化了瓦兰吉亚维京人并与乌拉尔-阿尔泰人口混合的群体。此外，还有欧洲化的美洲原住民和阿兹特克人。
Mustafa Al-Muhminun
But even though the Golden Age never happened against atlis Muslim continued to prospere and also gain advancement.
尽管黄金时代没有再次出现，穆斯林仍然继续繁荣并取得进步。
But even though the Golden Age never happened against atlis Muslim continued to prospere and also gain advancement.
尽管黄金时代没有再次出现，穆斯林仍然继续繁荣并取得进步。
KD S
Well I agree with the devastation caused by Mongols in the Persian world and it did even happened to the edges in Anatolia and western India where Konya, Multan and Lahore were sheltering Persian refugees and had home grown Persian speaking elite. The effect on Arab world can not be underestimated as Both Iraq and Syria were centres of Arab world in that era. Baghdad long passed it’s hey days by then, was still one of the biggest cities in the world and renowned centre of knowledge and learning. The agricultural lands turned into deserts wherever Mongol went. One more point is that overall Mongol devastation was not just initial carnage but later bad governance, countless Mongol civil wars and finally initial Timurid carnage though later Timurid era was a brief stable period before the decades long instability and civil wars from where Safavid, Ottomans, Mughal and Uzbek emerged to shape the early Modern era.
我同意蒙古人对波斯世界的破坏，这种破坏甚至波及到了安纳托利亚和印度西部边缘地区，科尼亚、木尔坦和拉合尔等地曾收留波斯难民，并培养出了本土的波斯语精英。蒙古人对阿拉伯世界的影响也不容小觑，因为伊拉克和叙利亚是当时阿拉伯世界的中心。巴格达虽然早已过了鼎盛时期，但仍然是世界上最大的城市之一，也是著名的知识和学术中心。蒙古人所到之处，农田变成了沙漠。另外，蒙古的破坏不仅仅是初期的屠杀，还包括后来的糟糕治理、无数的蒙古内战，以及帖木儿初期的屠杀（尽管帖木儿后期有一段短暂的稳定时期），随后是长达数十年的动荡和内战，最终催生了萨法维、奥斯曼、莫卧儿和乌兹别克等政权，塑造了近代早期的格局。
Well I agree with the devastation caused by Mongols in the Persian world and it did even happened to the edges in Anatolia and western India where Konya, Multan and Lahore were sheltering Persian refugees and had home grown Persian speaking elite. The effect on Arab world can not be underestimated as Both Iraq and Syria were centres of Arab world in that era. Baghdad long passed it’s hey days by then, was still one of the biggest cities in the world and renowned centre of knowledge and learning. The agricultural lands turned into deserts wherever Mongol went. One more point is that overall Mongol devastation was not just initial carnage but later bad governance, countless Mongol civil wars and finally initial Timurid carnage though later Timurid era was a brief stable period before the decades long instability and civil wars from where Safavid, Ottomans, Mughal and Uzbek emerged to shape the early Modern era.
我同意蒙古人对波斯世界的破坏，这种破坏甚至波及到了安纳托利亚和印度西部边缘地区，科尼亚、木尔坦和拉合尔等地曾收留波斯难民，并培养出了本土的波斯语精英。蒙古人对阿拉伯世界的影响也不容小觑，因为伊拉克和叙利亚是当时阿拉伯世界的中心。巴格达虽然早已过了鼎盛时期，但仍然是世界上最大的城市之一，也是著名的知识和学术中心。蒙古人所到之处，农田变成了沙漠。另外，蒙古的破坏不仅仅是初期的屠杀，还包括后来的糟糕治理、无数的蒙古内战，以及帖木儿初期的屠杀（尽管帖木儿后期有一段短暂的稳定时期），随后是长达数十年的动荡和内战，最终催生了萨法维、奥斯曼、莫卧儿和乌兹别克等政权，塑造了近代早期的格局。
Wade Spencer
Baghdad was also a major center of learning that got devastated.
巴格达也是一个重要的学术中心，但遭到了毁灭。
Baghdad was also a major center of learning that got devastated.
巴格达也是一个重要的学术中心，但遭到了毁灭。
KD S
And Damascus & Aleppo too. We had evidence and please read Ahmad ibn Arabshah
大马士革和阿勒颇也是如此。我们有证据，请阅读艾哈迈德·伊本·阿拉布沙的著作。
And Damascus & Aleppo too. We had evidence and please read Ahmad ibn Arabshah
大马士革和阿勒颇也是如此。我们有证据，请阅读艾哈迈德·伊本·阿拉布沙的著作。
Imazighen
Mongols really harmed Persia, the cities were burned to the ground and it took 100 years for Persia to start a little bit recovering from the massacres. Only southern cities were spared, it was i guess too hot for the mongols to go south.
蒙古人确实对波斯造成了严重伤害，城市被烧成灰烬，波斯花了100年时间才从大屠杀中开始稍微恢复。只有南部城市幸免于难，我猜是因为对蒙古人来说南部太热了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Mongols really harmed Persia, the cities were burned to the ground and it took 100 years for Persia to start a little bit recovering from the massacres. Only southern cities were spared, it was i guess too hot for the mongols to go south.
蒙古人确实对波斯造成了严重伤害，城市被烧成灰烬，波斯花了100年时间才从大屠杀中开始稍微恢复。只有南部城市幸免于难，我猜是因为对蒙古人来说南部太热了。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Rashid Nooristani
This is a good answer but doesn’t state the full picture. Plenty of Persian cities such as Shiraz was spared as they submitted to Mongols. And, Ottomans were quite advanced, and where able to conquer a large chunk of Balkans + Eastern Europe and put end to Roman/Byzantine Empire. Ottomans were on-par with much of Western Europe until late 16th century. Ottomans had schools, universities. Sure! They didn’t make significant advancement, but they made many incremental innovations (cannons/war-fare, physics, astronomy) to stay on par.
The turning point imo was from 17th century it was Britain and the industrial revolution it led that accelerated much of Western Europe, which was picked up later by France, Italy etc. Ottomans never picked it up and much of Muslim lands fell behind.
这个回答很好，但并没有完全说明问题。许多波斯城市（如设拉子）因向蒙古人投降而得以幸免。此外，奥斯曼帝国非常先进，他们征服了巴尔干半岛和东欧的大部分地区，并终结了罗马/拜占庭帝国。直到16世纪末，奥斯曼帝国与西欧大部分地区不相上下。奥斯曼帝国拥有学校和大学。当然，他们并没有取得重大突破，但他们通过许多渐进式创新（如火炮/战争技术、物理学、天文学）保持了与西方的同步。
在我看来，转折点出现在17世纪，英国和其引领的工业革命加速了西欧的发展，随后法国、意大利等国家也跟上了步伐。而奥斯曼帝国未能抓住这一机遇，导致大部分穆斯林地区落后。
This is a good answer but doesn’t state the full picture. Plenty of Persian cities such as Shiraz was spared as they submitted to Mongols. And, Ottomans were quite advanced, and where able to conquer a large chunk of Balkans + Eastern Europe and put end to Roman/Byzantine Empire. Ottomans were on-par with much of Western Europe until late 16th century. Ottomans had schools, universities. Sure! They didn’t make significant advancement, but they made many incremental innovations (cannons/war-fare, physics, astronomy) to stay on par.
The turning point imo was from 17th century it was Britain and the industrial revolution it led that accelerated much of Western Europe, which was picked up later by France, Italy etc. Ottomans never picked it up and much of Muslim lands fell behind.
这个回答很好，但并没有完全说明问题。许多波斯城市（如设拉子）因向蒙古人投降而得以幸免。此外，奥斯曼帝国非常先进，他们征服了巴尔干半岛和东欧的大部分地区，并终结了罗马/拜占庭帝国。直到16世纪末，奥斯曼帝国与西欧大部分地区不相上下。奥斯曼帝国拥有学校和大学。当然，他们并没有取得重大突破，但他们通过许多渐进式创新（如火炮/战争技术、物理学、天文学）保持了与西方的同步。
在我看来，转折点出现在17世纪，英国和其引领的工业革命加速了西欧的发展，随后法国、意大利等国家也跟上了步伐。而奥斯曼帝国未能抓住这一机遇，导致大部分穆斯林地区落后。
Muammar al Gaddafi's Green Book.
Is that why do so many areas look Asian (I know it’s “Asia”), like in Samarkhand and Bukhara?
I know they are turkic, but they look very Asian to the untrained eye.
这就是为什么这么多地区看起来像亚洲（我知道这是“亚洲”），比如撒马尔罕和布哈拉？
我知道他们是突厥人，但在外行人看来，他们非常像亚洲人。
Is that why do so many areas look Asian (I know it’s “Asia”), like in Samarkhand and Bukhara?
I know they are turkic, but they look very Asian to the untrained eye.
这就是为什么这么多地区看起来像亚洲（我知道这是“亚洲”），比如撒马尔罕和布哈拉？
我知道他们是突厥人，但在外行人看来，他们非常像亚洲人。
John Michael Oblivious
Original Turkic people came from East China
原始突厥人来自中国东部。
Original Turkic people came from East China
原始突厥人来自中国东部。
Tt Öztürk
Why americanz looks like european? Because they are came from scandinavia
为什么美国人看起来像欧洲人？因为他们来自斯堪的纳维亚。
Why americanz looks like european? Because they are came from scandinavia
为什么美国人看起来像欧洲人？因为他们来自斯堪的纳维亚。
Nothing
They are from Caucasus, while Turks are suspected to be from East China
他们来自高加索，而突厥人被认为来自中国东部。
They are from Caucasus, while Turks are suspected to be from East China
他们来自高加索，而突厥人被认为来自中国东部。
LureBozorg
I dont believe the Mongols could have managed this alone. They were using technology and expertise of their Chinese slaves for much of their conquests.
Mongols may have GENOCIDEd 90% of West Asia and Central Asia but it has had zero effect as those who remained repopulated the regions.
All and all they provided nothing but destruction and gave absolutely nothing positive for humanity. And thats why they live in the desert plains with a population of 3 million and half of their lands controlled by China and Russia.
我不相信蒙古人单凭自己就能做到这一切。他们在征服过程中大量依赖中国奴隶的技术和专业知识。
蒙古人可能在西亚和中亚屠杀了90%的人口，但这并没有产生长期影响，因为幸存者重新繁衍了这些地区。
总的来说，蒙古人除了破坏之外，没有为人类带来任何积极的东西。这也是为什么他们如今生活在人口仅300万的沙漠平原上，一半的土地被中国和俄罗斯控制。
I dont believe the Mongols could have managed this alone. They were using technology and expertise of their Chinese slaves for much of their conquests.
Mongols may have GENOCIDEd 90% of West Asia and Central Asia but it has had zero effect as those who remained repopulated the regions.
All and all they provided nothing but destruction and gave absolutely nothing positive for humanity. And thats why they live in the desert plains with a population of 3 million and half of their lands controlled by China and Russia.
我不相信蒙古人单凭自己就能做到这一切。他们在征服过程中大量依赖中国奴隶的技术和专业知识。
蒙古人可能在西亚和中亚屠杀了90%的人口，但这并没有产生长期影响，因为幸存者重新繁衍了这些地区。
总的来说，蒙古人除了破坏之外，没有为人类带来任何积极的东西。这也是为什么他们如今生活在人口仅300万的沙漠平原上，一半的土地被中国和俄罗斯控制。
Lambert
Mongols may have GENOCIDEd 90% of West Asia and Central Asia but it has had zero effect as those who remained repopulated the regions.
Some of them eventually got repopulated, but not all, and that was itself a process that took centuries. Iran's population never again reached its pre-Mongol level until the 20th century. A lot of the destroyed cities were permanently abandoned, such as the legendary cities of Estakhr, Susa, and Merv. Who knows how many more Rumis and Khwarizmis would’ve risen out of the millions the Mongols slaughtered, or their children, or their children’s children. I don't think I would call that “zero effect.”
蒙古人可能在西亚和中亚屠杀了90%的人口，但这并没有产生长期影响，因为幸存者重新繁衍了这些地区。
其中一些地区确实重新繁衍了，但并非全部，而且这一过程本身花费了几个世纪。伊朗的人口直到20世纪才恢复到蒙古入侵前的水平。许多被摧毁的城市被永久遗弃，例如传奇的伊斯塔赫尔、苏萨和梅尔夫。谁知道如果蒙古人没有屠杀那数百万人，他们的子孙后代中会诞生多少像鲁米和阿尔·花剌子模那样的天才。我不认为这能被称为“零影响”。
Mongols may have GENOCIDEd 90% of West Asia and Central Asia but it has had zero effect as those who remained repopulated the regions.
Some of them eventually got repopulated, but not all, and that was itself a process that took centuries. Iran's population never again reached its pre-Mongol level until the 20th century. A lot of the destroyed cities were permanently abandoned, such as the legendary cities of Estakhr, Susa, and Merv. Who knows how many more Rumis and Khwarizmis would’ve risen out of the millions the Mongols slaughtered, or their children, or their children’s children. I don't think I would call that “zero effect.”
蒙古人可能在西亚和中亚屠杀了90%的人口，但这并没有产生长期影响，因为幸存者重新繁衍了这些地区。
其中一些地区确实重新繁衍了，但并非全部，而且这一过程本身花费了几个世纪。伊朗的人口直到20世纪才恢复到蒙古入侵前的水平。许多被摧毁的城市被永久遗弃，例如传奇的伊斯塔赫尔、苏萨和梅尔夫。谁知道如果蒙古人没有屠杀那数百万人，他们的子孙后代中会诞生多少像鲁米和阿尔·花剌子模那样的天才。我不认为这能被称为“零影响”。
Sanxingdui Gold Mask
“Iran's population never again reached its pre-Mongol level until the 20th century.”
Depend on the source. From the 1978 estimate by McEvedy and Jones, Iran had recovered to its pre-Mongol population of 5 million by 1600, stayed at 5 million until 1700 and afterward rose over 5 million, higher than any number for Iran before 1600. Some estimate may put it higher than 5 million in 1700.
Istakhr was massacred by the Arabs back in the 7th century and gradually lose importance afterward, it was further reduced to a village more than a century before Genghis.
Neither Susa or Merv were abandoned because of the Mongol massacre and neither were Kunya-Urgench and Bamiyan. Note that abandoning cities in Central Asia was a thing since thousands of years (Gonur Depe for example) before the Mongols. As some cities got abandoned, the other rose to prominence. Bukhara, for example, reached its biggest pre-modern size after the Mongols and under the Uzbek, which was a Mongol offshoot.
“伊朗的人口直到20世纪才恢复到蒙古入侵前的水平。”
这取决于资料来源。根据McEvedy和Jones 1978年的估计，伊朗在1600年时已恢复到蒙古入侵前的500万人口，并在1700年之后超过了500万，高于1600年之前的任何数字。有些估计甚至认为1700年时伊朗的人口超过了500万。
伊斯塔赫尔在7世纪时被阿拉伯人屠杀，之后逐渐失去重要性，在成吉思汗之前一个多世纪，它已经变成了一个小村庄。
苏萨和梅尔夫并没有因为蒙古人的屠杀而被遗弃，库尼亚-乌尔根奇和巴米扬也是如此。需要注意的是，中亚城市的废弃现象在蒙古人之前已经存在了数千年（例如戈努尔德佩）。随着一些城市被废弃，其他城市崛起。例如，布哈拉在蒙古人之后和乌兹别克人统治下达到了其前现代时期的最大规模，而乌兹别克人正是蒙古人的后裔。
“Iran's population never again reached its pre-Mongol level until the 20th century.”
Depend on the source. From the 1978 estimate by McEvedy and Jones, Iran had recovered to its pre-Mongol population of 5 million by 1600, stayed at 5 million until 1700 and afterward rose over 5 million, higher than any number for Iran before 1600. Some estimate may put it higher than 5 million in 1700.
Istakhr was massacred by the Arabs back in the 7th century and gradually lose importance afterward, it was further reduced to a village more than a century before Genghis.
Neither Susa or Merv were abandoned because of the Mongol massacre and neither were Kunya-Urgench and Bamiyan. Note that abandoning cities in Central Asia was a thing since thousands of years (Gonur Depe for example) before the Mongols. As some cities got abandoned, the other rose to prominence. Bukhara, for example, reached its biggest pre-modern size after the Mongols and under the Uzbek, which was a Mongol offshoot.
“伊朗的人口直到20世纪才恢复到蒙古入侵前的水平。”
这取决于资料来源。根据McEvedy和Jones 1978年的估计，伊朗在1600年时已恢复到蒙古入侵前的500万人口，并在1700年之后超过了500万，高于1600年之前的任何数字。有些估计甚至认为1700年时伊朗的人口超过了500万。
伊斯塔赫尔在7世纪时被阿拉伯人屠杀，之后逐渐失去重要性，在成吉思汗之前一个多世纪，它已经变成了一个小村庄。
苏萨和梅尔夫并没有因为蒙古人的屠杀而被遗弃，库尼亚-乌尔根奇和巴米扬也是如此。需要注意的是，中亚城市的废弃现象在蒙古人之前已经存在了数千年（例如戈努尔德佩）。随着一些城市被废弃，其他城市崛起。例如，布哈拉在蒙古人之后和乌兹别克人统治下达到了其前现代时期的最大规模，而乌兹别克人正是蒙古人的后裔。
Tt Öztürk
mongols are mongolicizied Turks thats why they help Turks
Khwarezmians are also Turks and ghenghis khans wants allied with them but they killed their mans and trigered borjigin dynasty
ghenghis khans actually impresed jalal ad din Khwarezm and he wished his child be like him (greatest commender)
Funfact:mongolicizied mongols attack Khwarezmia and hates and kills Muslims but after their elite become absolutley Turkified and Muslim
蒙古人是蒙古化的突厥人，这就是为什么他们帮助突厥人。
花剌子模人也是突厥人，成吉思汗曾想与他们结盟，但他们杀死了成吉思汗的使者，从而引发了孛儿只斤王朝的愤怒。
成吉思汗实际上对花剌子模的贾拉尔·丁印象深刻，他希望自己的孩子能像他一样（伟大的指挥官）。
有趣的事实：蒙古化的蒙古人攻击花剌子模，仇恨并杀害穆斯林，但后来他们的精英完全突厥化并成为穆斯林。
mongols are mongolicizied Turks thats why they help Turks
Khwarezmians are also Turks and ghenghis khans wants allied with them but they killed their mans and trigered borjigin dynasty
ghenghis khans actually impresed jalal ad din Khwarezm and he wished his child be like him (greatest commender)
Funfact:mongolicizied mongols attack Khwarezmia and hates and kills Muslims but after their elite become absolutley Turkified and Muslim
蒙古人是蒙古化的突厥人，这就是为什么他们帮助突厥人。
花剌子模人也是突厥人，成吉思汗曾想与他们结盟，但他们杀死了成吉思汗的使者，从而引发了孛儿只斤王朝的愤怒。
成吉思汗实际上对花剌子模的贾拉尔·丁印象深刻，他希望自己的孩子能像他一样（伟大的指挥官）。
有趣的事实：蒙古化的蒙古人攻击花剌子模，仇恨并杀害穆斯林，但后来他们的精英完全突厥化并成为穆斯林。
Imazighen
Yes and also they lost a lot of knowledge and beautiful cities with libraries and crazy architecture. It had effect. When ibn battuta the traveler visited Persia, he heard of it’s wonders before, he was devastated to see what mongols did. He said there was nothing, Isfahan was burnt to the ground and only Shiraz glory remained so he went south and visitez Hormuz.
是的，他们还失去了许多知识和美丽的城市，包括图书馆和惊人的建筑。这产生了影响。当旅行者伊本·白图泰访问波斯时，他之前听说过它的奇迹，但看到蒙古人的所作所为后，他感到震惊。他说那里一无所有，伊斯法罕被烧成灰烬，只有设拉子的荣耀留存，所以他南下并访问了霍尔木兹。
Yes and also they lost a lot of knowledge and beautiful cities with libraries and crazy architecture. It had effect. When ibn battuta the traveler visited Persia, he heard of it’s wonders before, he was devastated to see what mongols did. He said there was nothing, Isfahan was burnt to the ground and only Shiraz glory remained so he went south and visitez Hormuz.
是的，他们还失去了许多知识和美丽的城市，包括图书馆和惊人的建筑。这产生了影响。当旅行者伊本·白图泰访问波斯时，他之前听说过它的奇迹，但看到蒙古人的所作所为后，他感到震惊。他说那里一无所有，伊斯法罕被烧成灰烬，只有设拉子的荣耀留存，所以他南下并访问了霍尔木兹。
Alisher Orynbek
You can't kill 90 percent of population. That's just a wild exaggeration. Of one city, maybe, but its also very unlikely. Urbanisation at those times reached perhaps a few percentage points. Vast majority lived in the country. Even if half the townspeople were massacred that won't strongly affect the total population.
你不可能杀死90%的人口。这只是夸张的说法。对于一个城市来说，也许有可能，但也非常不可能。当时的城市化率可能只有几个百分点。绝大多数人生活在农村。即使一半的城镇居民被屠杀，也不会对总人口产生重大影响。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
You can't kill 90 percent of population. That's just a wild exaggeration. Of one city, maybe, but its also very unlikely. Urbanisation at those times reached perhaps a few percentage points. Vast majority lived in the country. Even if half the townspeople were massacred that won't strongly affect the total population.
你不可能杀死90%的人口。这只是夸张的说法。对于一个城市来说，也许有可能，但也非常不可能。当时的城市化率可能只有几个百分点。绝大多数人生活在农村。即使一半的城镇居民被屠杀，也不会对总人口产生重大影响。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Ahmad Jamal
Exactly.
确实如此。
Exactly.
确实如此。
Magnus Johansson
The Mongols certainly used a lot of Allies. Even China was largely conquered by Chinese for them.
As for their net contribution, for a long time now it had been considered sort of positive albeit in a very macro sense (“they made the modern world”) but the hype is starting to wear off a bit.
蒙古人确实使用了许多盟友。甚至中国也主要是由中国人为他们征服的。
至于他们的净贡献，长期以来，尽管在宏观意义上被认为是积极的（“他们创造了现代世界”），但这种炒作开始逐渐消退。
The Mongols certainly used a lot of Allies. Even China was largely conquered by Chinese for them.
As for their net contribution, for a long time now it had been considered sort of positive albeit in a very macro sense (“they made the modern world”) but the hype is starting to wear off a bit.
蒙古人确实使用了许多盟友。甚至中国也主要是由中国人为他们征服的。
至于他们的净贡献，长期以来，尽管在宏观意义上被认为是积极的（“他们创造了现代世界”），但这种炒作开始逐渐消退。
Ygor Coelho
I think there are quite strong evidences that the Turkic allies of Mongols and, much less so, Mongol tribes themselves (Turkified over time) did increase their already large numbers in much of Central Asia. Kazakhstan in particular seems to have been much less “Northeast Asian-shifted” until the late 1st millennium A.D., and similar but less dramatic shifts also happened elsewhere. Turkic migration to Anatolia, changing the demographics and genetic structure of what are now Turkey and Azerbaijan, also seem to have accelerated. So clearly there was a profound demographic impact in some areas, though mostly by Turkic people, not by Mongolic ones.
我认为有相当有力的证据表明，蒙古人的突厥盟友（随着时间的推移，蒙古部落本身也逐渐突厥化）确实在中亚大部分地区增加了他们本已庞大的人口。特别是哈萨克斯坦，直到公元第一个千年末期，似乎“东北亚化”的程度要低得多，其他地方也发生了类似但不太剧烈的变化。突厥人向安纳托利亚的迁移，似乎也加速改变了现今土耳其和阿塞拜疆的人口结构和基因结构。因此，显然在某些地区产生了深远的人口影响，尽管主要是突厥人，而不是蒙古人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I think there are quite strong evidences that the Turkic allies of Mongols and, much less so, Mongol tribes themselves (Turkified over time) did increase their already large numbers in much of Central Asia. Kazakhstan in particular seems to have been much less “Northeast Asian-shifted” until the late 1st millennium A.D., and similar but less dramatic shifts also happened elsewhere. Turkic migration to Anatolia, changing the demographics and genetic structure of what are now Turkey and Azerbaijan, also seem to have accelerated. So clearly there was a profound demographic impact in some areas, though mostly by Turkic people, not by Mongolic ones.
我认为有相当有力的证据表明，蒙古人的突厥盟友（随着时间的推移，蒙古部落本身也逐渐突厥化）确实在中亚大部分地区增加了他们本已庞大的人口。特别是哈萨克斯坦，直到公元第一个千年末期，似乎“东北亚化”的程度要低得多，其他地方也发生了类似但不太剧烈的变化。突厥人向安纳托利亚的迁移，似乎也加速改变了现今土耳其和阿塞拜疆的人口结构和基因结构。因此，显然在某些地区产生了深远的人口影响，尽管主要是突厥人，而不是蒙古人。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Lambert
Mongols weren't nearly as populous enough to be able to cause significant demographic changes anywhere in the world. The destruction that they brought, however, did clear the way for the Turks. Sort of like how the hyenas feast after the lion is done with its hunt.
蒙古人的人口远不足以在世界任何地方引起重大的人口变化。然而，他们带来的破坏确实为突厥人扫清了道路。有点像狮子完成狩猎后，鬣狗开始享用盛宴。
Mongols weren't nearly as populous enough to be able to cause significant demographic changes anywhere in the world. The destruction that they brought, however, did clear the way for the Turks. Sort of like how the hyenas feast after the lion is done with its hunt.
蒙古人的人口远不足以在世界任何地方引起重大的人口变化。然而，他们带来的破坏确实为突厥人扫清了道路。有点像狮子完成狩猎后，鬣狗开始享用盛宴。
Ian Catcher
0 effect on those who remained? You have no clue. If you destroy things like irrigation, cities, trade routes. It doesnt matter if youre albert Einstein, you have nothing to work with to improve your land.
You want to rebuild your city? Oh there arent enough people to do that
You want more people? There isnt enough food for that
You want to train people to rebuild farmland? Sorry all your books are destroyed and the people who knew how are dead.
This is a cycle that takes centuries to fix itself. How are you going to raise money when everything's destroyed? Other cities are going to rise up and replace you, how will you compete with them? Thats why depopulation and infrastructure destructionis so evil. Not only is it GENOCIDE. The survivors are unable to fix anything
对幸存者没有影响？你完全不了解。如果你摧毁了灌溉系统、城市和贸易路线，即使你是阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦，你也无法改善你的土地。
你想重建你的城市？哦，没有足够的人来做这件事。
你想要更多的人？没有足够的食物来养活他们。
你想培训人们重建农田？抱歉，你所有的书籍都被毁了，知道怎么做的人也都死了。
这是一个需要几个世纪才能自我修复的循环。当一切都被摧毁时，你如何筹集资金？其他城市将会崛起并取代你，你如何与它们竞争？这就是为什么人口减少和基础设施破坏如此邪恶。这不仅是种族灭绝，幸存者也无法修复任何东西。
0 effect on those who remained? You have no clue. If you destroy things like irrigation, cities, trade routes. It doesnt matter if youre albert Einstein, you have nothing to work with to improve your land.
You want to rebuild your city? Oh there arent enough people to do that
You want more people? There isnt enough food for that
You want to train people to rebuild farmland? Sorry all your books are destroyed and the people who knew how are dead.
This is a cycle that takes centuries to fix itself. How are you going to raise money when everything's destroyed? Other cities are going to rise up and replace you, how will you compete with them? Thats why depopulation and infrastructure destructionis so evil. Not only is it GENOCIDE. The survivors are unable to fix anything
对幸存者没有影响？你完全不了解。如果你摧毁了灌溉系统、城市和贸易路线，即使你是阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦，你也无法改善你的土地。
你想重建你的城市？哦，没有足够的人来做这件事。
你想要更多的人？没有足够的食物来养活他们。
你想培训人们重建农田？抱歉，你所有的书籍都被毁了，知道怎么做的人也都死了。
这是一个需要几个世纪才能自我修复的循环。当一切都被摧毁时，你如何筹集资金？其他城市将会崛起并取代你，你如何与它们竞争？这就是为什么人口减少和基础设施破坏如此邪恶。这不仅是种族灭绝，幸存者也无法修复任何东西。
LureBozorg
It was quite obvious the genocidal act by the Mongols across Central and Western Asia was meant to wipe out entire peoples but it didn't have any effect as I stated since the populations of these lands have substantially repopulated their regions.
很明显，蒙古人在中亚和西亚的种族灭绝行为旨在消灭整个民族，但正如我所说，这并没有产生任何影响，因为这些地区的人口已经大幅恢复。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
It was quite obvious the genocidal act by the Mongols across Central and Western Asia was meant to wipe out entire peoples but it didn't have any effect as I stated since the populations of these lands have substantially repopulated their regions.
很明显，蒙古人在中亚和西亚的种族灭绝行为旨在消灭整个民族，但正如我所说，这并没有产生任何影响，因为这些地区的人口已经大幅恢复。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Schtickyrice
It was the other way around: only after the establishment of the Ilkanate and adoption of catapult technology were the Mongols able to break the siege of the southern Song capital. The Mongols decided to go west to conquer the Steppes of Central Asia and the Abbasid Caliphate on horseback before doub…
事实恰恰相反：只有在伊尔汗国建立并采用投石机技术后，蒙古人才能够攻破南宋首都的围困。蒙古人决定西征，征服中亚草原和阿拔斯王朝，然后再……
It was the other way around: only after the establishment of the Ilkanate and adoption of catapult technology were the Mongols able to break the siege of the southern Song capital. The Mongols decided to go west to conquer the Steppes of Central Asia and the Abbasid Caliphate on horseback before doub…
事实恰恰相反：只有在伊尔汗国建立并采用投石机技术后，蒙古人才能够攻破南宋首都的围困。蒙古人决定西征，征服中亚草原和阿拔斯王朝，然后再……
Chetan Naik
Inadvertently they might have stopped complete Islamisation of China. That is one positive.
无意中，他们可能阻止了中国的完全伊斯兰化。这是一个积极的影响。
Inadvertently they might have stopped complete Islamisation of China. That is one positive.
无意中，他们可能阻止了中国的完全伊斯兰化。这是一个积极的影响。
DAVID
no instead they brought Muslims into China
不，相反，他们把穆斯林带入了中国。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
no instead they brought Muslims into China
不，相反，他们把穆斯林带入了中国。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Khanno Mikhail ܚܢܐ ܡܟܐܝܠ
If I may also add, the Mongols also killed off many Christian & Jewish populations throughout Persia and the Middle East which also held highly educated populations
如果我可以补充的话，蒙古人还杀害了波斯和中东的许多基督教和犹太教人口，这些人口中也包括许多受过高等教育的人。
If I may also add, the Mongols also killed off many Christian & Jewish populations throughout Persia and the Middle East which also held highly educated populations
如果我可以补充的话，蒙古人还杀害了波斯和中东的许多基督教和犹太教人口，这些人口中也包括许多受过高等教育的人。
Mehran
The one that you’re saying is Timur.
你所说的那个人是帖木儿。
The one that you’re saying is Timur.
你所说的那个人是帖木儿。
Khanno Mikhail ܚܢܐ ܡܟܐܝܠ
Timur was part of it but it was the Mongols as well
帖木儿是其中的一部分，但蒙古人也是。
Timur was part of it but it was the Mongols as well
帖木儿是其中的一部分，但蒙古人也是。
LureBozorg
Both Turkic and Iranic peoples were massacred in West and Central Asia. Khwarazmian Empire was a Turko-Persian empire that tried to defy Mongols. So to claim only Persians were massacred is a farce. Oghuz Turks were massacred just as badly.
突厥人和伊朗人在中亚和西亚都被屠杀。花剌子模帝国是一个试图反抗蒙古人的突厥-波斯帝国。因此，声称只有波斯人被屠杀是荒谬的。乌古斯突厥人同样遭到了严重的屠杀。
Both Turkic and Iranic peoples were massacred in West and Central Asia. Khwarazmian Empire was a Turko-Persian empire that tried to defy Mongols. So to claim only Persians were massacred is a farce. Oghuz Turks were massacred just as badly.
突厥人和伊朗人在中亚和西亚都被屠杀。花剌子模帝国是一个试图反抗蒙古人的突厥-波斯帝国。因此，声称只有波斯人被屠杀是荒谬的。乌古斯突厥人同样遭到了严重的屠杀。
Lambert
I don't remember ever claiming that only Persians were massacred by the Mongols.
我不记得曾经声称只有波斯人被蒙古人屠杀。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
I don't remember ever claiming that only Persians were massacred by the Mongols.
我不记得曾经声称只有波斯人被蒙古人屠杀。
原创翻译：龙腾网 https://www.ltaaa.cn 转载请注明出处
Mehran
Many of oghuz turks could save their life thanks to nomadic tradition and started mass migration to Anatolia to survive but Iranians and Arabs of Mesopotamia and Levant suffered greatly because they couldn’t run so far.
许多乌古斯突厥人由于游牧传统得以保全性命，并开始大规模迁移到安纳托利亚以求生存，但美索不达米亚和黎凡特的伊朗人和阿拉伯人因为无法跑那么远而遭受了巨大的苦难。
Many of oghuz turks could save their life thanks to nomadic tradition and started mass migration to Anatolia to survive but Iranians and Arabs of Mesopotamia and Levant suffered greatly because they couldn’t run so far.
许多乌古斯突厥人由于游牧传统得以保全性命，并开始大规模迁移到安纳托利亚以求生存，但美索不达米亚和黎凡特的伊朗人和阿拉伯人因为无法跑那么远而遭受了巨大的苦难。
LureBozorg
Wrong. Timur slaughtered 40,000 ottomans in Ankara. He was a direct descendant of Genghis khan.
错了。帖木儿在安卡拉屠杀了4万名奥斯曼人。他是成吉思汗的直系后裔。
Wrong. Timur slaughtered 40,000 ottomans in Ankara. He was a direct descendant of Genghis khan.
错了。帖木儿在安卡拉屠杀了4万名奥斯曼人。他是成吉思汗的直系后裔。
Mehran
I was talking about Genghis khan itself and his immediate family not Timur.
我说的是成吉思汗本人和他的直系家族，而不是帖木儿。
I was talking about Genghis khan itself and his immediate family not Timur.
我说的是成吉思汗本人和他的直系家族，而不是帖木儿。
LureBozorg
We are talking about Mongol invasions in West Asia. So Timur counts as being apart of this!
我们讨论的是蒙古人在西亚的入侵。因此，帖木儿也算作其中的一部分！
We are talking about Mongol invasions in West Asia. So Timur counts as being apart of this!
我们讨论的是蒙古人在西亚的入侵。因此，帖木儿也算作其中的一部分！
Mehran
well interesting one fun thing is Turkish nationalists praise him and Genghis khan while in Ottomans times mongols were hated by all turks in ottoman territory. Biggest damage that mongols cause to Iran was agricultural destruction.
有趣的是，土耳其民族主义者赞扬帖木儿和成吉思汗，而在奥斯曼帝国时期，蒙古人被奥斯曼领土上的所有突厥人憎恨。蒙古人对伊朗造成的最大破坏是农业的毁灭。
well interesting one fun thing is Turkish nationalists praise him and Genghis khan while in Ottomans times mongols were hated by all turks in ottoman territory. Biggest damage that mongols cause to Iran was agricultural destruction.
有趣的是，土耳其民族主义者赞扬帖木儿和成吉思汗，而在奥斯曼帝国时期，蒙古人被奥斯曼领土上的所有突厥人憎恨。蒙古人对伊朗造成的最大破坏是农业的毁灭。
LureBozorg
Pan-Turkists are an embarrassment to their ancestors by praising those they massacred their ancestors. Show the Turkish nationalists this:
Ottoman Empire Sultan Bayezid I held captive by Timur after the destruction of Ankara
泛突厥主义者通过赞扬那些屠杀他们祖先的人，给他们的祖先带来了耻辱。给土耳其民族主义者看看这个：
奥斯曼帝国苏丹巴耶济德一世在安卡拉被毁后被帖木儿俘虏。
Pan-Turkists are an embarrassment to their ancestors by praising those they massacred their ancestors. Show the Turkish nationalists this:
Ottoman Empire Sultan Bayezid I held captive by Timur after the destruction of Ankara
泛突厥主义者通过赞扬那些屠杀他们祖先的人，给他们的祖先带来了耻辱。给土耳其民族主义者看看这个：
奥斯曼帝国苏丹巴耶济德一世在安卡拉被毁后被帖木儿俘虏。
Muhammad Ahmadi
but again he released all of his sons from his prison who latter became king
但他再次释放了他所有的儿子，他们后来成为了国王。
but again he released all of his sons from his prison who latter became king
但他再次释放了他所有的儿子，他们后来成为了国王。
LureBozorg
Also there are plenty of Iranian nomadic peoples, especially during that time that fought and many like Lurs & Kurds that held onto control their regions.
此外，还有许多伊朗游牧民族，特别是在那个时期，他们进行了战斗，许多像卢尔人和库尔德人这样的民族控制着他们的地区。
Also there are plenty of Iranian nomadic peoples, especially during that time that fought and many like Lurs & Kurds that held onto control their regions.
此外，还有许多伊朗游牧民族，特别是在那个时期，他们进行了战斗，许多像卢尔人和库尔德人这样的民族控制着他们的地区。
Fikri Asrofi
Not sure if iran is Arab they came from Persian ethnicitis
不确定伊朗是否是阿拉伯人，他们来自波斯民族。
Not sure if iran is Arab they came from Persian ethnicitis
不确定伊朗是否是阿拉伯人，他们来自波斯民族。
Moaath Ebrahem Alfantoakh
Great answer
and I think the question means the Islamic civilization that MOSTLY used Arabic as the main language in all fields of knowledge and science, so lots of people thus use Arab or Arabic civilization as a synonym of Islamic civilization
most scholars in or from Persia during the golden age of Islam, had Arabic names with Arabic naming systems and wrote mostly in Arabic language, and you can barely identify if they were Arabs or other ethnicities, and i do confess, persian people were the heart of Arabic/Islamic civilization, they even contributed the most to Arabic language itself, so peace be upon them
很好的回答
我认为这个问题指的是伊斯兰文明，它在所有知识和科学领域主要使用阿拉伯语作为主要语言，因此许多人将阿拉伯或阿拉伯文明作为伊斯兰文明的同义词。
在伊斯兰黄金时代，波斯或来自波斯的学者大多使用阿拉伯名字和阿拉伯命名系统，并且主要用阿拉伯语写作，你几乎无法分辨他们是阿拉伯人还是其他民族，我承认，波斯人是阿拉伯/伊斯兰文明的核心，他们甚至对阿拉伯语本身贡献最大，所以愿他们安息。
Great answer
and I think the question means the Islamic civilization that MOSTLY used Arabic as the main language in all fields of knowledge and science, so lots of people thus use Arab or Arabic civilization as a synonym of Islamic civilization
most scholars in or from Persia during the golden age of Islam, had Arabic names with Arabic naming systems and wrote mostly in Arabic language, and you can barely identify if they were Arabs or other ethnicities, and i do confess, persian people were the heart of Arabic/Islamic civilization, they even contributed the most to Arabic language itself, so peace be upon them
很好的回答
我认为这个问题指的是伊斯兰文明，它在所有知识和科学领域主要使用阿拉伯语作为主要语言，因此许多人将阿拉伯或阿拉伯文明作为伊斯兰文明的同义词。
在伊斯兰黄金时代，波斯或来自波斯的学者大多使用阿拉伯名字和阿拉伯命名系统，并且主要用阿拉伯语写作，你几乎无法分辨他们是阿拉伯人还是其他民族，我承认，波斯人是阿拉伯/伊斯兰文明的核心，他们甚至对阿拉伯语本身贡献最大，所以愿他们安息。
Sean Kane
And the Persians, by murdering Mongol ambassadors and merchants and sheltering the rebellious Khan of the Volga Bulgars, brought it on themselves. This does seem to be a repeating theme in Muslim history.
波斯人通过杀害蒙古使者和商人，并庇护伏尔加保加利亚的反叛可汗，给自己带来了灾难。这似乎是穆斯林历史中反复出现的主题。
And the Persians, by murdering Mongol ambassadors and merchants and sheltering the rebellious Khan of the Volga Bulgars, brought it on themselves. This does seem to be a repeating theme in Muslim history.
波斯人通过杀害蒙古使者和商人，并庇护伏尔加保加利亚的反叛可汗，给自己带来了灾难。这似乎是穆斯林历史中反复出现的主题。
Quentin Callahan
I really don't think that a massive empire of many millions of people deserved wholesale slaughter, pillage, and rape because a local functionary robbed a trade mission and the Sultan killed emissaries sent demanding him to be turned over. Retribution was certainly justified for that, but there is very little that could ever have justified what Temujin did in response.
我真的不认为一个拥有数百万人口的庞大帝国应该因为一个地方官员抢劫了一个贸易使团，苏丹杀死了要求交出他（地方官员）的使者而遭受大规模的屠杀、掠夺和强奸。报复当然是合理的，但几乎没有什么能证明铁木真的回应是合理的。
I really don't think that a massive empire of many millions of people deserved wholesale slaughter, pillage, and rape because a local functionary robbed a trade mission and the Sultan killed emissaries sent demanding him to be turned over. Retribution was certainly justified for that, but there is very little that could ever have justified what Temujin did in response.
我真的不认为一个拥有数百万人口的庞大帝国应该因为一个地方官员抢劫了一个贸易使团，苏丹杀死了要求交出他（地方官员）的使者而遭受大规模的屠杀、掠夺和强奸。报复当然是合理的，但几乎没有什么能证明铁木真的回应是合理的。
Alisher Orynbek
Most of cities and towns were spared, those that were wize enough to surrender. But some were subjected to “shock and awe”.
大多数城市和城镇得以幸免，那些明智地选择投降的城市。但有些城市遭受了“震慑和敬畏”。
Most of cities and towns were spared, those that were wize enough to surrender. But some were subjected to “shock and awe”.
大多数城市和城镇得以幸免，那些明智地选择投降的城市。但有些城市遭受了“震慑和敬畏”。
Sean Kane
In the 13th century the murder of an Ambassador was considered considered a declaration of war.
在13世纪，杀害大使被视为宣战。
In the 13th century the murder of an Ambassador was considered considered a declaration of war.
在13世纪，杀害大使被视为宣战。
Riad Souissi
Your reply resembles typical speeches we hear from the west through their colonial history up until very recently (like with the war against Iraq) and Israel right now. Let's collectively punish a whole population for whatever reason. I wonder where this genocidal mindset comes from.
你的回复类似于我们从西方殖民历史中听到的典型演讲，直到最近（比如对伊拉克的战争）和现在的以色列。让我们以任何理由集体惩罚整个民族。我想知道这种种族灭绝的心态从何而来。
Your reply resembles typical speeches we hear from the west through their colonial history up until very recently (like with the war against Iraq) and Israel right now. Let's collectively punish a whole population for whatever reason. I wonder where this genocidal mindset comes from.
你的回复类似于我们从西方殖民历史中听到的典型演讲，直到最近（比如对伊拉克的战争）和现在的以色列。让我们以任何理由集体惩罚整个民族。我想知道这种种族灭绝的心态从何而来。
KD S
please read history in details rather than using hate
请详细阅读历史，而不是使用仇恨。
please read history in details rather than using hate
请详细阅读历史，而不是使用仇恨。
Alisher Orynbek
Khorezm Shakhs were Turks, not Persians or Iranians. They considered Mongols to be steppe conquerors rival to themselves who would dislodge them and replace them as rulers of taxable sedentary folks. So it was more like “beat them or perish”.
花剌子模的沙阿（波斯语里面的皇帝头衔）是突厥人，而不是波斯人或伊朗人。他们认为蒙古人是草原征服者，是他们的竞争对手，会取代他们成为可征税的定居民族的统治者。所以这更像是“打败他们或灭亡”。
Khorezm Shakhs were Turks, not Persians or Iranians. They considered Mongols to be steppe conquerors rival to themselves who would dislodge them and replace them as rulers of taxable sedentary folks. So it was more like “beat them or perish”.
花剌子模的沙阿（波斯语里面的皇帝头衔）是突厥人，而不是波斯人或伊朗人。他们认为蒙古人是草原征服者，是他们的竞争对手，会取代他们成为可征税的定居民族的统治者。所以这更像是“打败他们或灭亡”。
Mehran
The rulers who did this themselves were turkic but savage mongols punished Iranians for it!!!!
做这些事的统治者自己是突厥人，但野蛮的蒙古人却因此惩罚了伊朗人！！！！
The rulers who did this themselves were turkic but savage mongols punished Iranians for it!!!!
做这些事的统治者自己是突厥人，但野蛮的蒙古人却因此惩罚了伊朗人！！！！
很赞 14
收藏