中国是关键矿产之王
正文翻译
评论翻译
straightdge
Regarding Nickel, the processing plants in Indonesia are mostly controlled/invested by Chinese companies.
关于镍，印尼的加工厂大多由中国公司控制/投资。
ezkeles
indonesia here, most nickel company is from high rank militer company.. yes some China company make new factory but many nickel company is indo ownership old money
印度尼西亚这里，大多数镍公司都是高级军事公司。是的，有些中国公司建了新工厂，但很多镍公司是印尼老牌企业。
Onaliquidrock
But most of the ore for the plants in China come from Indonesia and The Philippines.
但中国工厂所需的大部分矿石来自印度尼西亚和菲律宾。
KingMelray
China is the most powerful country in the world right now no need to wait 25 years.
中国现在是世界上最强大的国家，不需要等待 25 年。
Gitmfap
Refining isn’t hard, it’s just nasty nasty stuff. It’s terrible for the environment and finding an area willing to do it is not easy.
炼油并不难，只是会产生一些令人作呕的东西。它对环境非常有害，而且找到一个愿意炼油的地方也不容易。
Sure_Sundae2709
IMHO, if China wants to give us their subsidized minerals, we should stop being stupid and just take that gift. But instead of doing nothing (which has been done so far) or subsidizing domestic production (which stupid politicians and journalists are demanding), we should build up strategic reserves large enough to cover potential Chinese export bans. Strategic reserves will be way cheaper in the long run, while all previous subsidies will be wasted as soon as one government decides to cut them for whatever reason...
恕我直言，如果中国想把他们补贴的矿产资源送给我们，我们就别傻了，直接接受这份礼物吧。但我们不应该无所作为（迄今为止我们一直在这样做）或补贴国内生产（愚蠢的政客和记者们正在要求这样做），而应该建立足够大的战略储备，以应对中国可能实施的出口禁令。从长远来看，战略储备的成本要低得多，而一旦某个政府出于某种原因决定削减补贴，所有之前的补贴都将被打水漂……
Sure_Sundae2709
Not if you do it right, as I said, you need to have a strategic reserve to counter any potential export restrictions.
如果你做得对的话就不会，正如我所说，你需要有战略储备来应对任何潜在的出口限制。
Oil storage is actually a good example which works. But I also don't think you can subsidize production of minerals in the long run. Just imagine a market crash in any weird mineral and the political outfall if it's mining is subsidized anyway. And then you have all kinds of protests of e.g. environmetal groups all the time because mining is a dirty business, especially rare earths...
石油储备实际上是一个很好的例子，它行之有效。但我不认为长期补贴矿产生产是可行的。想象一下，任何稀有矿产的市场崩溃，如果其开采仍然受到补贴，将会带来什么样的政治后果。然后你会听到各种各样的抗议，比如环保组织，因为采矿是一项肮脏的行业，尤其是稀土……
Jzeeee
Stockpiling critical minerals was the answer a decade ago, but this was still buying from China or sending raw material to China for processing. China has since put a stop to other countries from stockpiling with export controls and requiring end user information before selling/refining materials. China is well aware of "strategic reserves".
十年前，储备关键矿产是解决之道，但当时的答案仍然是从中国购买或将原材料运往中国加工。此后，中国通过出口管制和要求最终用户在出售/提炼材料前提供信息，阻止其他国家囤积关键矿产。中国对“战略储备”有着清晰的认识。
Tall-Drama338
China only digs up a small proportion of this. They are buying up the ore to refine. It’s the end product where they have cornered the market. It’s only the rare earths that matter. Australia has plenty of those but only does a partial refinement then sends it off to Malaysia and China for final refinement. The graph here is about refinement, not ore production. There’s no shortage of Copper, Lithium, Nickel, etc.
中国只开采了其中的一小部分。他们买下所有矿石进行提炼。最终产品市场被他们垄断。只有稀土元素才是关键。澳大利亚拥有丰富的稀土元素，但只进行部分提炼，然后运往马来西亚和中国进行最终提炼。这里的图表显示的是提炼量，而不是矿石产量。铜、锂、镍等金属并不短缺。
DirectionMurky5526
Protectionist policies can prop up an industry, but they can never make those industries actually more competitive. The market is driven by supply and demand. Keep a vestigial industry operating at a loss, and then if an emergency actually occurs, scale it up. There is no shortage of raw material, just a question of scale.
保护主义政策可以支撑一个行业，但永远无法真正提升这些行业的竞争力。市场是由供求关系驱动的。让一个尚处于衰退期的行业保持亏损运营，如果真的发生紧急情况，就扩大规模。原材料并不短缺，只是规模的问题。
emperorjoe
We can easily do it it just requires money.It's not complicated, and these minerals are everywhere.
我们可以轻松做到这一点，只是需要钱。这并不复杂，这些矿物质随处可见。
zuzu1968amamam
"we can easily do it it just requires money" is pretty much an answer for every ridiculously hard problem.
“我们可以轻松做到，只是需要钱”几乎是每一个极其困难的问题的答案。
emperorjoe
Yup, America having infinite money is literally a cheat code.It's going to cost more to mine/and refine it here, plus you have to ignore environmental concerns. Basically green light every project, set a baseline commodity price so American companies can make a profit. Then low interest loans/grants to get them started.Which is what is already happening
是的，美国拥有无限的资金实际上是一种作弊。在这里开采和提炼的成本会更高，而且你还得忽略环境问题。基本上每个项目都要开绿灯，设定一个基准商品价格，让公司能够盈利。然后提供低息贷款/补助帮助它们启动。这就是已经发生的事情
Rikshaw_Stefano
I don't know, I always thought that they are probably located in Alaska. And getting them from there is a pain in the ass, probably
我不知道，我一直以为它们可能在阿拉斯加。从那里获取它们可能很麻烦。
emperorjoe
Literally everywhere, they are found along with other metals and we throw them out as it's not worth the money/effort to mine/extract them out.
实际上，它们随处可见，与其他金属一起被发现，我们将它们扔掉，因为开采/提取它们不值得花费金钱和精力。
GayPerry_86
Canada should mine like we are serious. We have so many minerals. It’s a joke that we haven’t been a leader.
加拿大应该认真对待采矿业。我们矿产资源如此丰富。我们竟然还没成为领导者，简直是笑话。
sextionDue4287
Worth noting: You can find most of those in Europe, but they are harder to reach and would cause a lot of environmental distress.
值得注意的是：你可以在欧洲找到其中的大部分，但它们更难到达，而且会造成很大的环境破坏。
Ok-Pea3414
What all of these charts don't show and unknowingly hide is the technology acceleration in Chinese rare earth refining.There have been costs, yes. Environmental, human health costs, vast areas uninhabitable - All of them yes.What has also happened is technology ladder that Chinese firms have been climbing. Today, Chinese firms are typically able to extract more rare earths out of similar ores than in other countries. In fact, even for easy to refine metals, such as nickel, China is able to refine nickel to extreme purity, easier than others. Why? Cheap renewable power that is exploding year on year, which is a major resource required to get ultra-high purity nickel.It is extremely hard to refine lanthanides and actinides through electrical refining because all of them are so close to each other in their electrical potential and you need extremely capable electronics to keep voltage at say 1.9999V and not at 1.9999 +/- 0.0005V. Guess, which nation's electronic companies are working towards it?Not only that, Chinese firms now create fewer tons of pollutants (other than aerial pollutants like CO2) per ton of refined rare earths than every other country's firms, because they have had almost 30 years of uninterrupted support and the ability to test out different methods and extraction chemicals. Not to mention their industrial clustering. This also means that atmospheric pollutants like sulphur oxides and nitrogen oxides are captured, and your neighboring plant will use it to make acids, which are again used for fertilizers and a plethora of stuff everybody uses in daily life.
What companies in other countries require to build alternate rare earth refining supply-chains is not government subsidies or government money to build the factories, but rather a floor price purchase guarantee for maybe 7-10 years, by which they will be hopefully able to compete against Chinese firms on their own competitive price basis and not need any government support.
所有这些图表都没有显示并且无意中隐藏了中国稀土精炼技术的加速发展。是的，确实有代价。环境、人类健康受损，大片地区不宜居住——所有这些代价都是肯定的。中国企业也在不断攀登技术阶梯。如今，中国企业通常能够从类似矿石中提取出比其他国家更多的稀土元素。事实上，即使是镍这种易于提炼的金属，中国也能比其他国家更容易地将镍提炼到极高的纯度。原因何在？廉价的可再生能源逐年激增，而可再生能源是获取超高纯度镍的重要资源。通过电精炼来精炼镧系元素和锕系元素极其困难，因为它们的电势非常接近，而且需要性能极其强大的电子设备才能将电压保持在 1.9999V 左右，而不是 1.9999 +/- 0.0005V。猜猜看，哪个国家的电子公司正在为此努力？不仅如此，中国企业现在每生产一吨精炼稀土产生的污染物（二氧化碳等空气污染物除外）比其他国家的企业都要少，因为它们拥有近30年不间断的支持，并且有能力测试不同的提取方法和化学品。更不用说它们的产业集群了。这也意味着硫氧化物和氮氧化物等大气污染物会被捕获，而你附近的工厂会用它来生产酸，而这些酸又会用于生产肥料和日常生活中各种各样的产品。其他国家的企业建立替代稀土精炼供应链所需的不是政府补贴或政府资金来建设工厂，而是可能需要7至10年的最低价格购买保证，希望通过这种方式，他们能够以自己的竞争价格与中国企业竞争，而不需要任何政府支持。
Regarding Nickel, the processing plants in Indonesia are mostly controlled/invested by Chinese companies.
关于镍，印尼的加工厂大多由中国公司控制/投资。
ezkeles
indonesia here, most nickel company is from high rank militer company.. yes some China company make new factory but many nickel company is indo ownership old money
印度尼西亚这里，大多数镍公司都是高级军事公司。是的，有些中国公司建了新工厂，但很多镍公司是印尼老牌企业。
Onaliquidrock
But most of the ore for the plants in China come from Indonesia and The Philippines.
但中国工厂所需的大部分矿石来自印度尼西亚和菲律宾。
KingMelray
China is the most powerful country in the world right now no need to wait 25 years.
中国现在是世界上最强大的国家，不需要等待 25 年。
Gitmfap
Refining isn’t hard, it’s just nasty nasty stuff. It’s terrible for the environment and finding an area willing to do it is not easy.
炼油并不难，只是会产生一些令人作呕的东西。它对环境非常有害，而且找到一个愿意炼油的地方也不容易。
Sure_Sundae2709
IMHO, if China wants to give us their subsidized minerals, we should stop being stupid and just take that gift. But instead of doing nothing (which has been done so far) or subsidizing domestic production (which stupid politicians and journalists are demanding), we should build up strategic reserves large enough to cover potential Chinese export bans. Strategic reserves will be way cheaper in the long run, while all previous subsidies will be wasted as soon as one government decides to cut them for whatever reason...
恕我直言，如果中国想把他们补贴的矿产资源送给我们，我们就别傻了，直接接受这份礼物吧。但我们不应该无所作为（迄今为止我们一直在这样做）或补贴国内生产（愚蠢的政客和记者们正在要求这样做），而应该建立足够大的战略储备，以应对中国可能实施的出口禁令。从长远来看，战略储备的成本要低得多，而一旦某个政府出于某种原因决定削减补贴，所有之前的补贴都将被打水漂……
Sure_Sundae2709
Not if you do it right, as I said, you need to have a strategic reserve to counter any potential export restrictions.
如果你做得对的话就不会，正如我所说，你需要有战略储备来应对任何潜在的出口限制。
Oil storage is actually a good example which works. But I also don't think you can subsidize production of minerals in the long run. Just imagine a market crash in any weird mineral and the political outfall if it's mining is subsidized anyway. And then you have all kinds of protests of e.g. environmetal groups all the time because mining is a dirty business, especially rare earths...
石油储备实际上是一个很好的例子，它行之有效。但我不认为长期补贴矿产生产是可行的。想象一下，任何稀有矿产的市场崩溃，如果其开采仍然受到补贴，将会带来什么样的政治后果。然后你会听到各种各样的抗议，比如环保组织，因为采矿是一项肮脏的行业，尤其是稀土……
Jzeeee
Stockpiling critical minerals was the answer a decade ago, but this was still buying from China or sending raw material to China for processing. China has since put a stop to other countries from stockpiling with export controls and requiring end user information before selling/refining materials. China is well aware of "strategic reserves".
十年前，储备关键矿产是解决之道，但当时的答案仍然是从中国购买或将原材料运往中国加工。此后，中国通过出口管制和要求最终用户在出售/提炼材料前提供信息，阻止其他国家囤积关键矿产。中国对“战略储备”有着清晰的认识。
Tall-Drama338
China only digs up a small proportion of this. They are buying up the ore to refine. It’s the end product where they have cornered the market. It’s only the rare earths that matter. Australia has plenty of those but only does a partial refinement then sends it off to Malaysia and China for final refinement. The graph here is about refinement, not ore production. There’s no shortage of Copper, Lithium, Nickel, etc.
中国只开采了其中的一小部分。他们买下所有矿石进行提炼。最终产品市场被他们垄断。只有稀土元素才是关键。澳大利亚拥有丰富的稀土元素，但只进行部分提炼，然后运往马来西亚和中国进行最终提炼。这里的图表显示的是提炼量，而不是矿石产量。铜、锂、镍等金属并不短缺。
DirectionMurky5526
Protectionist policies can prop up an industry, but they can never make those industries actually more competitive. The market is driven by supply and demand. Keep a vestigial industry operating at a loss, and then if an emergency actually occurs, scale it up. There is no shortage of raw material, just a question of scale.
保护主义政策可以支撑一个行业，但永远无法真正提升这些行业的竞争力。市场是由供求关系驱动的。让一个尚处于衰退期的行业保持亏损运营，如果真的发生紧急情况，就扩大规模。原材料并不短缺，只是规模的问题。
emperorjoe
We can easily do it it just requires money.It's not complicated, and these minerals are everywhere.
我们可以轻松做到这一点，只是需要钱。这并不复杂，这些矿物质随处可见。
zuzu1968amamam
"we can easily do it it just requires money" is pretty much an answer for every ridiculously hard problem.
“我们可以轻松做到，只是需要钱”几乎是每一个极其困难的问题的答案。
emperorjoe
Yup, America having infinite money is literally a cheat code.It's going to cost more to mine/and refine it here, plus you have to ignore environmental concerns. Basically green light every project, set a baseline commodity price so American companies can make a profit. Then low interest loans/grants to get them started.Which is what is already happening
是的，美国拥有无限的资金实际上是一种作弊。在这里开采和提炼的成本会更高，而且你还得忽略环境问题。基本上每个项目都要开绿灯，设定一个基准商品价格，让公司能够盈利。然后提供低息贷款/补助帮助它们启动。这就是已经发生的事情
Rikshaw_Stefano
I don't know, I always thought that they are probably located in Alaska. And getting them from there is a pain in the ass, probably
我不知道，我一直以为它们可能在阿拉斯加。从那里获取它们可能很麻烦。
emperorjoe
Literally everywhere, they are found along with other metals and we throw them out as it's not worth the money/effort to mine/extract them out.
实际上，它们随处可见，与其他金属一起被发现，我们将它们扔掉，因为开采/提取它们不值得花费金钱和精力。
GayPerry_86
Canada should mine like we are serious. We have so many minerals. It’s a joke that we haven’t been a leader.
加拿大应该认真对待采矿业。我们矿产资源如此丰富。我们竟然还没成为领导者，简直是笑话。
sextionDue4287
Worth noting: You can find most of those in Europe, but they are harder to reach and would cause a lot of environmental distress.
值得注意的是：你可以在欧洲找到其中的大部分，但它们更难到达，而且会造成很大的环境破坏。
Ok-Pea3414
What all of these charts don't show and unknowingly hide is the technology acceleration in Chinese rare earth refining.There have been costs, yes. Environmental, human health costs, vast areas uninhabitable - All of them yes.What has also happened is technology ladder that Chinese firms have been climbing. Today, Chinese firms are typically able to extract more rare earths out of similar ores than in other countries. In fact, even for easy to refine metals, such as nickel, China is able to refine nickel to extreme purity, easier than others. Why? Cheap renewable power that is exploding year on year, which is a major resource required to get ultra-high purity nickel.It is extremely hard to refine lanthanides and actinides through electrical refining because all of them are so close to each other in their electrical potential and you need extremely capable electronics to keep voltage at say 1.9999V and not at 1.9999 +/- 0.0005V. Guess, which nation's electronic companies are working towards it?Not only that, Chinese firms now create fewer tons of pollutants (other than aerial pollutants like CO2) per ton of refined rare earths than every other country's firms, because they have had almost 30 years of uninterrupted support and the ability to test out different methods and extraction chemicals. Not to mention their industrial clustering. This also means that atmospheric pollutants like sulphur oxides and nitrogen oxides are captured, and your neighboring plant will use it to make acids, which are again used for fertilizers and a plethora of stuff everybody uses in daily life.
What companies in other countries require to build alternate rare earth refining supply-chains is not government subsidies or government money to build the factories, but rather a floor price purchase guarantee for maybe 7-10 years, by which they will be hopefully able to compete against Chinese firms on their own competitive price basis and not need any government support.
所有这些图表都没有显示并且无意中隐藏了中国稀土精炼技术的加速发展。是的，确实有代价。环境、人类健康受损，大片地区不宜居住——所有这些代价都是肯定的。中国企业也在不断攀登技术阶梯。如今，中国企业通常能够从类似矿石中提取出比其他国家更多的稀土元素。事实上，即使是镍这种易于提炼的金属，中国也能比其他国家更容易地将镍提炼到极高的纯度。原因何在？廉价的可再生能源逐年激增，而可再生能源是获取超高纯度镍的重要资源。通过电精炼来精炼镧系元素和锕系元素极其困难，因为它们的电势非常接近，而且需要性能极其强大的电子设备才能将电压保持在 1.9999V 左右，而不是 1.9999 +/- 0.0005V。猜猜看，哪个国家的电子公司正在为此努力？不仅如此，中国企业现在每生产一吨精炼稀土产生的污染物（二氧化碳等空气污染物除外）比其他国家的企业都要少，因为它们拥有近30年不间断的支持，并且有能力测试不同的提取方法和化学品。更不用说它们的产业集群了。这也意味着硫氧化物和氮氧化物等大气污染物会被捕获，而你附近的工厂会用它来生产酸，而这些酸又会用于生产肥料和日常生活中各种各样的产品。其他国家的企业建立替代稀土精炼供应链所需的不是政府补贴或政府资金来建设工厂，而是可能需要7至10年的最低价格购买保证，希望通过这种方式，他们能够以自己的竞争价格与中国企业竞争，而不需要任何政府支持。
