由于法国和德国的意见不合，欧洲战斗机项目或将取消
正文翻译
评论翻译
@XD-cr3du
Good job guys, this is really what we need in Europe right now.
干得好，伙计们，这正是我们现在欧洲所需要的。
@Gilder-von-Schattenkreuz
Its fine to be Honest. They are making Hyperbole on the Disagreement there.
France and Germany are basicly Arguing wether to Produce a Single Fighter that is a Mix of Capabilities or Produce Two Fighters which both are more Specialized.
If France and Germany cannot Agree. They will simply make 2 Fighters or maybe 2 Variants of that Fighter to Fit the Demands of each.
实话实说没什么不好。他们把分歧夸大了。
法国和德国争论的焦点在于，是生产一种集多种功能于一体的战斗机，还是生产两种功能更加专业的战斗机。
如果法德实在谈不拢，大不了就各造各的，或者在同一款战机的基础上推出两个不同的改型，来满足各自的需求
@joso5554
@Gilder-von-Schattenkreuz France doesn’t need a specialized fighter. These days of specialized combat aircraft for separate missions are gone. France wants an multirole fighter with nuclear capability and a naval carrier-based capability or variant. Germany just wants a fighter to go along with the F35…
法国根本不需要那种功能单一的专用战机。如今那种为了执行特定任务而专门研发单一机型的时代早就过去了。
法国想要的是一款具备核打击能力、而且能上航母（或者拥有舰载改型）的多用途战机。而德国呢，仅仅是想要一款能配合 F-35 使用的战机
@achiver-d7j
FRANCE is the only technologically independent country in europe, who can take over major threats on its own, other were LAP-DOGS of usa till now, and now crying
法国是欧洲唯一一个拥有独立技术、能独自应对重大威胁的国家
而其他国家直到现在都是美国的走狗，只会哭哭啼啼
@AlainBoone
How can Europe enhance its autonomy with these knuckleheads?
欧洲如何才能在这些蠢货的带领下提升自身的自主性？
@MMMichael11111
Whenever people say Europe can go it alone vs Russia and kick the US out just laugh at them and point to things like this.
每当有人说欧洲能独自对抗俄罗斯、还能把美国赶出去时，你就笑笑，然后把这档子事说给他们听。
@clearcoat
Why even start a project before agreeing on such fundamentals??
连这么基础的问题都没能达成一致，干嘛还要启动这个项目？
@stone-hand
It is the Raphale-Typhoon kerfuffle all over again, and everybody with a bit of historical memory expected it to happen nearly from the start.
这简直又是阵风和台风战斗机那场闹剧的翻版
所有还有点历史记忆的人从一开始就能预料到会是这样。
@OkarinHououinKyouma
Raphale is vastly superior to Typhoon
阵风远胜台风
@Zul1788
Germany should have a Jet that can carry nukes even if they don't have them. No one knows what can happen in the future. The world is changing rapidly.
德国应该拥有一款能够挂载核武器的战机，即便他们现在并没有核武器。
没人知道未来会发生什么，这个世界变化得太快了。
@kapatta
This is how Rafale and Eurofighter were developed. Last time there was a similar disagreement on design.
当年的‘阵风’和‘台风’就是这么来的。上次就是因为设计理念谈不拢，最后才分道扬镳的
@OkarinHououinKyouma
Eurofighter is a huge disaster
欧洲战斗机项目简直是一场灾难。
@TheGuit1
And everyone agrees the Rafale is a better plane than the eurofighter
所有人都承认，阵风战机比台风战机更优秀。
@mowthelawn5596
Uncle Sam laughing his a$$ off in the distance
山姆大叔在远处笑得前仰后合。
@Carewolf
The US ended up with 3 different version because the Navy, Marine Corp. and the Air force couldn't agree
美国最终搞出了三种不同的版本，就是因为海军、海军陆战队和空军意见不统一
@MMMichael11111
Europe had one chance to prove it can build its own unified military industrial complex
欧洲本有一次机会来证明自己可以建立起一个统一的军工体系。
@lanas5488
Don't worry, there is still the UK Italy Japan fighter, expected by 2035.
别担心，英国、意大利和日本联合研制的战斗机预计在 2035 年问世。
@colafish2152
Only a divided EU will fit Washington's best interests.
只有一个分裂的欧盟，才最符合华盛顿的利益。
@thejamaican67
Okay, let me get this straight. I create a bag that everyone can use. Someone wants to put apples in it and someone else doesn’t want to put apples in it so we stop making bags?
好吧，让我捋一捋这事。我做了一种大家都能用的袋子。有人想在里面装苹果，其他人却不想往里装苹果，所以我们就不做袋子了？
@dollyvintage8558
It's more complicated than that. To make a jet suitable for carrier use, you must make it light enough, reinforce the drive train and brakes, have a landing hook and reinforced structure around it, consider marine environment corrosion, etc... Also, to make it suitable for nuclear weapons delivery, you have to build dedicated systems into it: delivery authorization, flash protection, EMP protection, etc... All of these are trade-offs and extra costs that Germany does not see as desireable for its projected use case, while for France these are non-negociable, required feeatures.
I agree with the last interviewee; it's not like we need to collaborate on FCAS. The worst outcome would be to make an aircraft that would be too complex or costly, not optimized for either country's needs, and whose development would sour relations between us. We already collaborate on a lot of projects and it's generally going well. We can find other opportunities; no hard feelings. I'm French and work in aerospace, BTW :)
事情远比这复杂。要想让一款战机适应航母起降，你得把它做得足够轻，还得加固传动系统和刹车系统
在加装着舰尾钩的同时还得加强周边的机身结构，更别提还得考虑海洋环境带来的腐蚀问题等等
另外，如果要让它具备核武器的投送能力，你就得在战机内部集成专门的系统：比如发射授权系统、防闪光保护系统、抗电磁脉冲保护等等
所有这些设计都会导致性能上的妥协和额外的成本，对于德国的预期使用场景而言，这些都并非必要
但对法国来说，这些都是不可或缺的硬性要求。
我同意最后那位受访者的观点；并不是说我们非得在‘未来空战系统’上合作不可
最糟糕的结果，就是造出一款过于复杂或昂贵的飞机，既不能很好地满足两国的需求，还会让彼此的关系变得紧张
我们已经在很多项目上有合作，而且总体上进展顺利
我们完全可以寻找其他的合作机会，没必要因此心生芥蒂。顺便说一句，我是法国人，从事航空航天的相关工作
@tomwagemans1872
Isn't this exactly the same problem as in the past? This is why we have the Eurofighter and Rafale.
这跟当年的情况简直一模一样啊！这不就是为什么我们最后有了“台风”和“阵风”两款战机的原因嘛。
@MihaiStrömpl
Germany is again narrow-sighted. They don't care about the the airplanes having nuclear capabilities (because Germany doesn't have any), BUT at the same time Germany is considering to get under France's nuclear umbrella. Sooo, which one is it? Can't have it both ways. They want the protection but not to invest in it? Cute. France will probably have to do it alone again, which they've done since Charles De Gaulle and they were right to stay independent of American capabilities.
德国人这次又犯了短视的毛病了。
他们压根不关心战机是否具备核投送能力（毕竟德国自己手里没核弹），可转头又在琢磨怎么蹭进法国的“核保护伞”底下。
所以，到底要闹哪样儿啊？哪有鱼和熊掌兼得的好事？既想蹭保护又不想掏钱投入？想得挺美。
法国很可能又得单干了，自从戴高乐时期以来法国一直就是如此，事实证明，他们当初选择独立于美国之外是正确的
@RogierYou
Unfortunately we need the Nuclear deterrence. Look what happens to Ukraine. And Russia is threatening us constantly with their nukes.
遗憾的是，我们确实需要核威慑。看看乌克兰发生的一切就知道了。而且俄罗斯一直在用核武器不断的威胁我们
@silasbishop3055
And Europeans will work together to replace American weaponry and technology? Nope!
欧洲人会齐心协力的取代美国的武器和技术吗？不可能！
@zobodohtar
I don't get Germany's thinking. Instead of working towards interoperability, they're still thinking nationally. What's wrong with German planes landing on French carriers? German planes carrying French nuclear weapons? This is why we need a European weapons programme... We're still all tending our own little gardens.
我真搞不懂德国的想法。他们不去努力的实现互通互用，反而还在只从本国的利益出发思考问题。
德国战机降落在法国航母上，有什么问题？德国战机挂载法国的核武器，又有什么问题？
这就是为什么我们需要一个统一的欧洲武器项目
我们到现在还在各自为政，只顾着自己的一亩三分地
@maxsmith3580
Germany keeps shooting itself in the leg, is this a prerequisite once someone becomes a chancellor ?
德国一直在自毁前程，难道这就是当上总理的必备条件吗？
@klauswagner1607
Why, because it doesn't finance the French industry? Even the current US administration is less nationalistic than France with the F35. France is just bankrupt and looks for ways, how other countries pay for their military.
为什么这么说？是因为德国不给法国工业掏钱吗？就连现在的美国政府，在F-35项目上的民族主义色彩都比法国淡得多。法国其实已经财政吃紧，正在想方设法让别人为自己的军备买单。
@octaviantimisoreanu5810
@klauswagner1607 This is a weird conspiracy theory designed to muddy the waters.
这是一种旨在混淆视听的奇怪阴谋论。
@miniamaba6963
@klauswagner1607
Rafale users are free to use their planes as they want.
F-35 users have to ask a code every 2 days to USA to use their planes.
Is it what you are calling "frenh nationalisme " ?
阵风战斗机的用户可以自由地按照自己的意愿使用飞机。
而F-35的用户每两天还得找美国要个“激活码”才能飞。
这就是你所说的“法国民族主义”吗？
@garethrasmussen6186
yet Germany needs Frances nukes to deter other nuclear powers
然而德国需要法国的核武器来威慑其他核大国。
@555mimas555
France never gave any nuclear guaranties to any country besides itself.
法国从未向除自身以外的任何国家提供过核保障。
@dallasclarke
Germany should just join the UK and Japan's jet fighter program.
德国应该加入英国和日本的喷气式战斗机项目。
@Mrst3lios89
France is right in this discussion. Fighter planes should be versatile to be used in various cases. Just because a nation doesn't need a plane to have some capabilities, doesn't mean that everyone should not need those capabilities.
在这场讨论里，法国是对的。战斗机应该具备多用途能力，以应对各种情况。不能因为一个国家对某些功能没有需求，就说其他国家也不需要。
@masmoudi5595
I actually think in a way that if Airbus and Dassault give it a try alone would eventually be better for Europe, there would be a rivalry between the two, that is always good to have.
其实我倒觉得，要是空客和达索干脆各干各的，对欧洲来说没准反而是件好事。这样一来两家就成了竞争对手，有竞争才有动力嘛，这绝对是好事。
@jackham4407
Double the money waste with even less efficiency
那样的话，花的钱翻了一番，效率却更低。
@Just_another_Euro_dude
It's clear by now that Germany is infiltrated by the USA interests to the point of no return. It's the SAME with Denmark that ORDERED new F35s from Donald Trump in the October of 2025!
事到如今，已经很明显了：德国已被美国渗透到了无法挽回的地步。丹麦也是一路货色！他们竟然在 2025 年 10 月跟唐纳德·特朗普订购了新的 F-35 战机
@michaelprovence
Dassault should find other partners
达索应该去寻找其他的合作伙伴
@Baigan_OP
i think india and france can comply for the same as we know india surely want a 6th gen fighters also that can take nukes and surely a carrier version too
我认为印度和法国可以达成合作，因为我们都知道，印度肯定也想要一款能够携带核武器的第六代战斗机
而且肯定也需要舰载版本的第六代机
@alexandre-f9y2b
10 années de perdu encore une fois. Je comprend pas pourquoi on refait toujours la meme erreur.
又要浪费十年时间。我真不明白，为什么我们总是重复同样的错误。
@Rilcy2003
Je ne pense pas que Dassault s'est tourné les pouces pendant 10 ans.
我不认为达索公司这十年来一直无所事事。
@dee-jay45
So, just like with the Eurofighter.
Can we just stop doing shared arms projects with the French? It's impossible to work with them. KNDS is a failure, FCAS is a failure, and it's 90% due to French egos.
所以，就像欧洲战斗机项目一样。
我们能不能别再跟法国人搞联合武器项目了？
跟他们合作根本行不通。KNDS项目失败了，FCAS项目也失败了，90%的原因都是法国人太自负。
@adrien5834
Exactly like Eurofighter, indeed. In that French requirements were known from the start and that their partners came back on the agreement. Germany has known French requirements for 10 bloody years, and only now do they have a problem with them? What a joke.
确实跟‘欧洲战斗机’那会儿一模一样。当初法国的要求早就摆在明面上了，结果合作伙伴却出尔反尔。
德国人明明早就清楚法国人的要求，整整十年啊！现在才跳出来说有问题？简直就是个笑话
@patrickh8602
Why didn't France and Germany sort this out at the start?!?
法国和德国当初为什么不一开始就把这事解决掉
@neilknightley4703
That is why Europe will always be US lackey
这就是为什么欧洲永远都是美国的走狗。
@anonimato1987
As a European, I am terribly disappointed
作为一名欧洲人，我感到非常失望。
@JustAnNPC69
Probably because Germany wants to buy American
很可能是因为德国想买美国的装备。
@randypatungan2525
Why they always late interms of developing two superpowers are moving forward but Europe always debate that's why they always been in bottle with catch up
为什么他们总是慢一步？两个超级大国都在大步前进，可欧洲还在争论不休 —— 这就是他们永远都只能拼命追赶、却始终追不上的原因
@thomashunter5645
Europe can not survive without the help of the USA.
欧洲离不开美国的帮助。
@dzaki8331
never ever bring a Germans,British,and French into the same table,they will disagree about anything and have been like that since the fall of roman empire
永远不要让德国人、英国人和法国人坐在同一张桌子上，他们在任何事情上都意见不合，自从罗马帝国灭亡以来一直都是如此。
@GoingBeyond1987
The French have always been greedy. They always wanted everything to work for themselves thats why UK and Italy don’t want to work with them
法国人一直都很贪婪，他们总是想让一切都为自己服务，这就是英国和意大利不愿跟他们合作的原因。
@AyuSenet
It's greedy to want a fighter that meets your strategic needs?
想要一款满足自身战略需求的战机，这就算是贪婪吗？
@rafajeng7888
just buy more f-35s, problem solved
多买几架 F-35 就行了，问题解决
@MAKAKA2024-b7y
Exactly why Europe will nevwr be a superpower.
这就是欧洲永远成不了超级大国的原因。
@therraxz
I guess they have to fight it out like they have done in earlier history on many occasions
我想他们必须得像历史上那样，通过战斗来解决问题
@duaneraymond4252
You can have more that one variant. Stop bickering and just get them done!!!
你们完全可以搞多种型号。别再吵来吵去了，赶紧把事情做成
@pointblank0020
I had no idea a fighter jet was even capable of carrying a nuke. How small have nukes gotten?!
我完全不知道战斗机居然能携带核弹。核弹都变得这么小了？
@bluefanta7668
Why is Germany buying nuclear capable F-35?
那德国为啥要买具备核打击能力的 F-35？
@mendesleiteyuri
And these are the people who want to compete with China in Technology. hahaha
就是这些人，还想在科技领域和中国竞争。哈哈哈
@theChaosKe
I feel like this needs some more context. How much costs do these features add? If its not substantial they should be added like france wants, if they do its understandable that a feature unusable by most EU countries its not the way to go like germany wants. Are having subtypes of the jet not also feasable?
我觉得这事儿还得结合具体情况来看。这些功能到底会增加多少成本？如果成本增加得不多，那就该像法国希望的那样加上；
但如果成本很高，那德国说得也有道理——搞一个大多数欧盟国家都用不上的功能确实没必要
另外，搞两种不同型号是否可行？
@muchirinjetenurpeisov9961
wasn't the need to be able to carry nuclear weapon a major reason for germans to purchase F35s ?
德国人购买 F-35 战斗机的主要原因难道不就是为了能够携带核武器吗？
@Netscape-kd6mg
the points of disagreements were laied out and acceptyed by germany at teh start as it was never not an option that it woulds be nuclear capable and be naval. they accepted to start anyways. now they want to back down because they can"t bully france into giving it's jet contruction knowhow. i'm sick of german hypocracy
分歧点一开始就摆在那儿了，德国当时也是同意的。毕竟‘具备核打击能力’和‘上舰能力’从来都不是可选项（而是必须的）。
他们当初也同意先启动该项目了。但是现在却想打退堂鼓，纯粹是因为没法逼法国交出战机制造的技术机密。真是受够了德国的虚伪
@WalkOverHotCoal
Why not split the difference and buy the Chinese warplanes instead. It already has the proven record against the Rafael fighters in the Indian continent. Just tell China what the special requirements are, and China would be able to build it to the specifications.
为什么不折中一下，直接购买中国的战机呢？
中国战机对抗阵风战斗机的表现已经有目共睹。
只要告诉中国你的特殊需求，中国就能按规格造出来。
@TheInquisitiveFool-cf6uj
Anyone familiar with this process knew that it was never going to work. Very few nations have the same requirements as each other and every slight change to meet an additional mission requirement raises the costs from hundreds of millions into billions.
任何熟悉这个过程的人都知道，这根本行不通。几乎没有哪个国家的军备需求是完全相同的，为了满足额外的任务需求而做的任何细微改动，都会使成本从数亿美元飙升至数十亿美元。
@gamerxplanetx8637
Jet is obsolete anyway.. It should be an UAV development
反正有人驾驶战机已经过时了，现在该去研发无人机了。
@immortalityIMT
Program is obsolite, its all about drones now
这个项目已经过时了，现在一切都是以无人机为中心了。
@mof5490
Just when Europeans get cocky about beating US in military development they get humbled
就在欧洲人刚有点飘飘然，觉得自己能在军事研发上超越美国的时候，现实立刻给他们上了一课，让他们清醒了过来。
@john-9074
Preciously why a a European army is a hopeless dream. - Different countries pulling in different self interested directions.
这就是为什么组建一支欧洲军队是一个遥不可及的梦想
各国都只顾自身利益，各怀心思
@jaronpryor8400
don’t worry guys the US will sell you some F-47s after your project falls through
别担心各位，等你们的项目失败后，美国会卖给你们一些 F-47 的。
@BlackBears-h3d
Germany you need to listen to France they are right, Europe needs it's own independent nuclear deterrent.
德国，你们应该听听法国的意见，他们是对的
欧洲必须要有自己独立的核威慑手段
@dmitriyf1
This is United Europe ! Each goes own direction and cannot decide anything.
这就是“团结的欧洲”！各走各的路，什么都决定不了
@remcogreve7982
France is obviously right. I am dutch so not biased. It is a useless project if it cant't do the things France needs.
法国显然是对的。我是荷兰人，所以不会有偏向性。如果这个项目不能满足法国的需求，那它就是个毫无用处的项目。
@Osteady-now
Cool. Europe is working the way it's supposed to and expected.
太好了。欧洲的运作一切如常，符合预期。
@rashikintesir9976
ohhhh,.,,..... USA is happy, they can make germany to buy the next gen fighters from them
哦，这下美国可高兴了，他们又可以让德国买他们的下一代战斗机了。
@simplesimpleman
You both have technologies, engineers and scientists. Just make your own. Compete and better one will win.
你们双方都有技术、工程师和科学家。自己研发就好，互相竞争，更优秀的一方自然会胜出。
@MoonDweller1337
France can co-develop with India, they have the same needs Nuclear and Carrier capability.
法国可以和印度联合研发，他们有着相同的需求：搭载核武器的能力，与舰载的能力
Good job guys, this is really what we need in Europe right now.
干得好，伙计们，这正是我们现在欧洲所需要的。
@Gilder-von-Schattenkreuz
Its fine to be Honest. They are making Hyperbole on the Disagreement there.
France and Germany are basicly Arguing wether to Produce a Single Fighter that is a Mix of Capabilities or Produce Two Fighters which both are more Specialized.
If France and Germany cannot Agree. They will simply make 2 Fighters or maybe 2 Variants of that Fighter to Fit the Demands of each.
实话实说没什么不好。他们把分歧夸大了。
法国和德国争论的焦点在于，是生产一种集多种功能于一体的战斗机，还是生产两种功能更加专业的战斗机。
如果法德实在谈不拢，大不了就各造各的，或者在同一款战机的基础上推出两个不同的改型，来满足各自的需求
@joso5554
@Gilder-von-Schattenkreuz France doesn’t need a specialized fighter. These days of specialized combat aircraft for separate missions are gone. France wants an multirole fighter with nuclear capability and a naval carrier-based capability or variant. Germany just wants a fighter to go along with the F35…
法国根本不需要那种功能单一的专用战机。如今那种为了执行特定任务而专门研发单一机型的时代早就过去了。
法国想要的是一款具备核打击能力、而且能上航母（或者拥有舰载改型）的多用途战机。而德国呢，仅仅是想要一款能配合 F-35 使用的战机
@achiver-d7j
FRANCE is the only technologically independent country in europe, who can take over major threats on its own, other were LAP-DOGS of usa till now, and now crying
法国是欧洲唯一一个拥有独立技术、能独自应对重大威胁的国家
而其他国家直到现在都是美国的走狗，只会哭哭啼啼
@AlainBoone
How can Europe enhance its autonomy with these knuckleheads?
欧洲如何才能在这些蠢货的带领下提升自身的自主性？
@MMMichael11111
Whenever people say Europe can go it alone vs Russia and kick the US out just laugh at them and point to things like this.
每当有人说欧洲能独自对抗俄罗斯、还能把美国赶出去时，你就笑笑，然后把这档子事说给他们听。
@clearcoat
Why even start a project before agreeing on such fundamentals??
连这么基础的问题都没能达成一致，干嘛还要启动这个项目？
@stone-hand
It is the Raphale-Typhoon kerfuffle all over again, and everybody with a bit of historical memory expected it to happen nearly from the start.
这简直又是阵风和台风战斗机那场闹剧的翻版
所有还有点历史记忆的人从一开始就能预料到会是这样。
@OkarinHououinKyouma
Raphale is vastly superior to Typhoon
阵风远胜台风
@Zul1788
Germany should have a Jet that can carry nukes even if they don't have them. No one knows what can happen in the future. The world is changing rapidly.
德国应该拥有一款能够挂载核武器的战机，即便他们现在并没有核武器。
没人知道未来会发生什么，这个世界变化得太快了。
@kapatta
This is how Rafale and Eurofighter were developed. Last time there was a similar disagreement on design.
当年的‘阵风’和‘台风’就是这么来的。上次就是因为设计理念谈不拢，最后才分道扬镳的
@OkarinHououinKyouma
Eurofighter is a huge disaster
欧洲战斗机项目简直是一场灾难。
@TheGuit1
And everyone agrees the Rafale is a better plane than the eurofighter
所有人都承认，阵风战机比台风战机更优秀。
@mowthelawn5596
Uncle Sam laughing his a$$ off in the distance
山姆大叔在远处笑得前仰后合。
@Carewolf
The US ended up with 3 different version because the Navy, Marine Corp. and the Air force couldn't agree
美国最终搞出了三种不同的版本，就是因为海军、海军陆战队和空军意见不统一
@MMMichael11111
Europe had one chance to prove it can build its own unified military industrial complex
欧洲本有一次机会来证明自己可以建立起一个统一的军工体系。
@lanas5488
Don't worry, there is still the UK Italy Japan fighter, expected by 2035.
别担心，英国、意大利和日本联合研制的战斗机预计在 2035 年问世。
@colafish2152
Only a divided EU will fit Washington's best interests.
只有一个分裂的欧盟，才最符合华盛顿的利益。
@thejamaican67
Okay, let me get this straight. I create a bag that everyone can use. Someone wants to put apples in it and someone else doesn’t want to put apples in it so we stop making bags?
好吧，让我捋一捋这事。我做了一种大家都能用的袋子。有人想在里面装苹果，其他人却不想往里装苹果，所以我们就不做袋子了？
@dollyvintage8558
It's more complicated than that. To make a jet suitable for carrier use, you must make it light enough, reinforce the drive train and brakes, have a landing hook and reinforced structure around it, consider marine environment corrosion, etc... Also, to make it suitable for nuclear weapons delivery, you have to build dedicated systems into it: delivery authorization, flash protection, EMP protection, etc... All of these are trade-offs and extra costs that Germany does not see as desireable for its projected use case, while for France these are non-negociable, required feeatures.
I agree with the last interviewee; it's not like we need to collaborate on FCAS. The worst outcome would be to make an aircraft that would be too complex or costly, not optimized for either country's needs, and whose development would sour relations between us. We already collaborate on a lot of projects and it's generally going well. We can find other opportunities; no hard feelings. I'm French and work in aerospace, BTW :)
事情远比这复杂。要想让一款战机适应航母起降，你得把它做得足够轻，还得加固传动系统和刹车系统
在加装着舰尾钩的同时还得加强周边的机身结构，更别提还得考虑海洋环境带来的腐蚀问题等等
另外，如果要让它具备核武器的投送能力，你就得在战机内部集成专门的系统：比如发射授权系统、防闪光保护系统、抗电磁脉冲保护等等
所有这些设计都会导致性能上的妥协和额外的成本，对于德国的预期使用场景而言，这些都并非必要
但对法国来说，这些都是不可或缺的硬性要求。
我同意最后那位受访者的观点；并不是说我们非得在‘未来空战系统’上合作不可
最糟糕的结果，就是造出一款过于复杂或昂贵的飞机，既不能很好地满足两国的需求，还会让彼此的关系变得紧张
我们已经在很多项目上有合作，而且总体上进展顺利
我们完全可以寻找其他的合作机会，没必要因此心生芥蒂。顺便说一句，我是法国人，从事航空航天的相关工作
@tomwagemans1872
Isn't this exactly the same problem as in the past? This is why we have the Eurofighter and Rafale.
这跟当年的情况简直一模一样啊！这不就是为什么我们最后有了“台风”和“阵风”两款战机的原因嘛。
@MihaiStrömpl
Germany is again narrow-sighted. They don't care about the the airplanes having nuclear capabilities (because Germany doesn't have any), BUT at the same time Germany is considering to get under France's nuclear umbrella. Sooo, which one is it? Can't have it both ways. They want the protection but not to invest in it? Cute. France will probably have to do it alone again, which they've done since Charles De Gaulle and they were right to stay independent of American capabilities.
德国人这次又犯了短视的毛病了。
他们压根不关心战机是否具备核投送能力（毕竟德国自己手里没核弹），可转头又在琢磨怎么蹭进法国的“核保护伞”底下。
所以，到底要闹哪样儿啊？哪有鱼和熊掌兼得的好事？既想蹭保护又不想掏钱投入？想得挺美。
法国很可能又得单干了，自从戴高乐时期以来法国一直就是如此，事实证明，他们当初选择独立于美国之外是正确的
@RogierYou
Unfortunately we need the Nuclear deterrence. Look what happens to Ukraine. And Russia is threatening us constantly with their nukes.
遗憾的是，我们确实需要核威慑。看看乌克兰发生的一切就知道了。而且俄罗斯一直在用核武器不断的威胁我们
@silasbishop3055
And Europeans will work together to replace American weaponry and technology? Nope!
欧洲人会齐心协力的取代美国的武器和技术吗？不可能！
@zobodohtar
I don't get Germany's thinking. Instead of working towards interoperability, they're still thinking nationally. What's wrong with German planes landing on French carriers? German planes carrying French nuclear weapons? This is why we need a European weapons programme... We're still all tending our own little gardens.
我真搞不懂德国的想法。他们不去努力的实现互通互用，反而还在只从本国的利益出发思考问题。
德国战机降落在法国航母上，有什么问题？德国战机挂载法国的核武器，又有什么问题？
这就是为什么我们需要一个统一的欧洲武器项目
我们到现在还在各自为政，只顾着自己的一亩三分地
@maxsmith3580
Germany keeps shooting itself in the leg, is this a prerequisite once someone becomes a chancellor ?
德国一直在自毁前程，难道这就是当上总理的必备条件吗？
@klauswagner1607
Why, because it doesn't finance the French industry? Even the current US administration is less nationalistic than France with the F35. France is just bankrupt and looks for ways, how other countries pay for their military.
为什么这么说？是因为德国不给法国工业掏钱吗？就连现在的美国政府，在F-35项目上的民族主义色彩都比法国淡得多。法国其实已经财政吃紧，正在想方设法让别人为自己的军备买单。
@octaviantimisoreanu5810
@klauswagner1607 This is a weird conspiracy theory designed to muddy the waters.
这是一种旨在混淆视听的奇怪阴谋论。
@miniamaba6963
@klauswagner1607
Rafale users are free to use their planes as they want.
F-35 users have to ask a code every 2 days to USA to use their planes.
Is it what you are calling "frenh nationalisme " ?
阵风战斗机的用户可以自由地按照自己的意愿使用飞机。
而F-35的用户每两天还得找美国要个“激活码”才能飞。
这就是你所说的“法国民族主义”吗？
@garethrasmussen6186
yet Germany needs Frances nukes to deter other nuclear powers
然而德国需要法国的核武器来威慑其他核大国。
@555mimas555
France never gave any nuclear guaranties to any country besides itself.
法国从未向除自身以外的任何国家提供过核保障。
@dallasclarke
Germany should just join the UK and Japan's jet fighter program.
德国应该加入英国和日本的喷气式战斗机项目。
@Mrst3lios89
France is right in this discussion. Fighter planes should be versatile to be used in various cases. Just because a nation doesn't need a plane to have some capabilities, doesn't mean that everyone should not need those capabilities.
在这场讨论里，法国是对的。战斗机应该具备多用途能力，以应对各种情况。不能因为一个国家对某些功能没有需求，就说其他国家也不需要。
@masmoudi5595
I actually think in a way that if Airbus and Dassault give it a try alone would eventually be better for Europe, there would be a rivalry between the two, that is always good to have.
其实我倒觉得，要是空客和达索干脆各干各的，对欧洲来说没准反而是件好事。这样一来两家就成了竞争对手，有竞争才有动力嘛，这绝对是好事。
@jackham4407
Double the money waste with even less efficiency
那样的话，花的钱翻了一番，效率却更低。
@Just_another_Euro_dude
It's clear by now that Germany is infiltrated by the USA interests to the point of no return. It's the SAME with Denmark that ORDERED new F35s from Donald Trump in the October of 2025!
事到如今，已经很明显了：德国已被美国渗透到了无法挽回的地步。丹麦也是一路货色！他们竟然在 2025 年 10 月跟唐纳德·特朗普订购了新的 F-35 战机
@michaelprovence
Dassault should find other partners
达索应该去寻找其他的合作伙伴
@Baigan_OP
i think india and france can comply for the same as we know india surely want a 6th gen fighters also that can take nukes and surely a carrier version too
我认为印度和法国可以达成合作，因为我们都知道，印度肯定也想要一款能够携带核武器的第六代战斗机
而且肯定也需要舰载版本的第六代机
@alexandre-f9y2b
10 années de perdu encore une fois. Je comprend pas pourquoi on refait toujours la meme erreur.
又要浪费十年时间。我真不明白，为什么我们总是重复同样的错误。
@Rilcy2003
Je ne pense pas que Dassault s'est tourné les pouces pendant 10 ans.
我不认为达索公司这十年来一直无所事事。
@dee-jay45
So, just like with the Eurofighter.
Can we just stop doing shared arms projects with the French? It's impossible to work with them. KNDS is a failure, FCAS is a failure, and it's 90% due to French egos.
所以，就像欧洲战斗机项目一样。
我们能不能别再跟法国人搞联合武器项目了？
跟他们合作根本行不通。KNDS项目失败了，FCAS项目也失败了，90%的原因都是法国人太自负。
@adrien5834
Exactly like Eurofighter, indeed. In that French requirements were known from the start and that their partners came back on the agreement. Germany has known French requirements for 10 bloody years, and only now do they have a problem with them? What a joke.
确实跟‘欧洲战斗机’那会儿一模一样。当初法国的要求早就摆在明面上了，结果合作伙伴却出尔反尔。
德国人明明早就清楚法国人的要求，整整十年啊！现在才跳出来说有问题？简直就是个笑话
@patrickh8602
Why didn't France and Germany sort this out at the start?!?
法国和德国当初为什么不一开始就把这事解决掉
@neilknightley4703
That is why Europe will always be US lackey
这就是为什么欧洲永远都是美国的走狗。
@anonimato1987
As a European, I am terribly disappointed
作为一名欧洲人，我感到非常失望。
@JustAnNPC69
Probably because Germany wants to buy American
很可能是因为德国想买美国的装备。
@randypatungan2525
Why they always late interms of developing two superpowers are moving forward but Europe always debate that's why they always been in bottle with catch up
为什么他们总是慢一步？两个超级大国都在大步前进，可欧洲还在争论不休 —— 这就是他们永远都只能拼命追赶、却始终追不上的原因
@thomashunter5645
Europe can not survive without the help of the USA.
欧洲离不开美国的帮助。
@dzaki8331
never ever bring a Germans,British,and French into the same table,they will disagree about anything and have been like that since the fall of roman empire
永远不要让德国人、英国人和法国人坐在同一张桌子上，他们在任何事情上都意见不合，自从罗马帝国灭亡以来一直都是如此。
@GoingBeyond1987
The French have always been greedy. They always wanted everything to work for themselves thats why UK and Italy don’t want to work with them
法国人一直都很贪婪，他们总是想让一切都为自己服务，这就是英国和意大利不愿跟他们合作的原因。
@AyuSenet
It's greedy to want a fighter that meets your strategic needs?
想要一款满足自身战略需求的战机，这就算是贪婪吗？
@rafajeng7888
just buy more f-35s, problem solved
多买几架 F-35 就行了，问题解决
@MAKAKA2024-b7y
Exactly why Europe will nevwr be a superpower.
这就是欧洲永远成不了超级大国的原因。
@therraxz
I guess they have to fight it out like they have done in earlier history on many occasions
我想他们必须得像历史上那样，通过战斗来解决问题
@duaneraymond4252
You can have more that one variant. Stop bickering and just get them done!!!
你们完全可以搞多种型号。别再吵来吵去了，赶紧把事情做成
@pointblank0020
I had no idea a fighter jet was even capable of carrying a nuke. How small have nukes gotten?!
我完全不知道战斗机居然能携带核弹。核弹都变得这么小了？
@bluefanta7668
Why is Germany buying nuclear capable F-35?
那德国为啥要买具备核打击能力的 F-35？
@mendesleiteyuri
And these are the people who want to compete with China in Technology. hahaha
就是这些人，还想在科技领域和中国竞争。哈哈哈
@theChaosKe
I feel like this needs some more context. How much costs do these features add? If its not substantial they should be added like france wants, if they do its understandable that a feature unusable by most EU countries its not the way to go like germany wants. Are having subtypes of the jet not also feasable?
我觉得这事儿还得结合具体情况来看。这些功能到底会增加多少成本？如果成本增加得不多，那就该像法国希望的那样加上；
但如果成本很高，那德国说得也有道理——搞一个大多数欧盟国家都用不上的功能确实没必要
另外，搞两种不同型号是否可行？
@muchirinjetenurpeisov9961
wasn't the need to be able to carry nuclear weapon a major reason for germans to purchase F35s ?
德国人购买 F-35 战斗机的主要原因难道不就是为了能够携带核武器吗？
@Netscape-kd6mg
the points of disagreements were laied out and acceptyed by germany at teh start as it was never not an option that it woulds be nuclear capable and be naval. they accepted to start anyways. now they want to back down because they can"t bully france into giving it's jet contruction knowhow. i'm sick of german hypocracy
分歧点一开始就摆在那儿了，德国当时也是同意的。毕竟‘具备核打击能力’和‘上舰能力’从来都不是可选项（而是必须的）。
他们当初也同意先启动该项目了。但是现在却想打退堂鼓，纯粹是因为没法逼法国交出战机制造的技术机密。真是受够了德国的虚伪
@WalkOverHotCoal
Why not split the difference and buy the Chinese warplanes instead. It already has the proven record against the Rafael fighters in the Indian continent. Just tell China what the special requirements are, and China would be able to build it to the specifications.
为什么不折中一下，直接购买中国的战机呢？
中国战机对抗阵风战斗机的表现已经有目共睹。
只要告诉中国你的特殊需求，中国就能按规格造出来。
@TheInquisitiveFool-cf6uj
Anyone familiar with this process knew that it was never going to work. Very few nations have the same requirements as each other and every slight change to meet an additional mission requirement raises the costs from hundreds of millions into billions.
任何熟悉这个过程的人都知道，这根本行不通。几乎没有哪个国家的军备需求是完全相同的，为了满足额外的任务需求而做的任何细微改动，都会使成本从数亿美元飙升至数十亿美元。
@gamerxplanetx8637
Jet is obsolete anyway.. It should be an UAV development
反正有人驾驶战机已经过时了，现在该去研发无人机了。
@immortalityIMT
Program is obsolite, its all about drones now
这个项目已经过时了，现在一切都是以无人机为中心了。
@mof5490
Just when Europeans get cocky about beating US in military development they get humbled
就在欧洲人刚有点飘飘然，觉得自己能在军事研发上超越美国的时候，现实立刻给他们上了一课，让他们清醒了过来。
@john-9074
Preciously why a a European army is a hopeless dream. - Different countries pulling in different self interested directions.
这就是为什么组建一支欧洲军队是一个遥不可及的梦想
各国都只顾自身利益，各怀心思
@jaronpryor8400
don’t worry guys the US will sell you some F-47s after your project falls through
别担心各位，等你们的项目失败后，美国会卖给你们一些 F-47 的。
@BlackBears-h3d
Germany you need to listen to France they are right, Europe needs it's own independent nuclear deterrent.
德国，你们应该听听法国的意见，他们是对的
欧洲必须要有自己独立的核威慑手段
@dmitriyf1
This is United Europe ! Each goes own direction and cannot decide anything.
这就是“团结的欧洲”！各走各的路，什么都决定不了
@remcogreve7982
France is obviously right. I am dutch so not biased. It is a useless project if it cant't do the things France needs.
法国显然是对的。我是荷兰人，所以不会有偏向性。如果这个项目不能满足法国的需求，那它就是个毫无用处的项目。
@Osteady-now
Cool. Europe is working the way it's supposed to and expected.
太好了。欧洲的运作一切如常，符合预期。
@rashikintesir9976
ohhhh,.,,..... USA is happy, they can make germany to buy the next gen fighters from them
哦，这下美国可高兴了，他们又可以让德国买他们的下一代战斗机了。
@simplesimpleman
You both have technologies, engineers and scientists. Just make your own. Compete and better one will win.
你们双方都有技术、工程师和科学家。自己研发就好，互相竞争，更优秀的一方自然会胜出。
@MoonDweller1337
France can co-develop with India, they have the same needs Nuclear and Carrier capability.
法国可以和印度联合研发，他们有着相同的需求：搭载核武器的能力，与舰载的能力
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